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Dependence Of Our Salvation

Please comment upon this statement. The validity of a our salvation never depends on the faithfulness of man, but the faithfulness of God. How do you see this statement? Completely true? Partially true? Or totally false?

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 ---Mima on 12/25/07
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Completely true. For we were saved by His grace, through His faith, not something we were able to muster up through our own force of will. Salvation is, was and will always be, the gift of God. Who has from the beginning chosen us to salvation through the sanctification of His Spirit and an empowered belief of the truth. It is He who saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given in Christ Jesus before the world began.
---josef on 12/27/07

Psalm 26, from your part...
---Nana on 12/26/07

The faithfulness of God is never in question because God is eternally ever faithful and never changing, it is man that is capable of changing?

It is by the grace of God that we are saved. We acquire & sustain our salvation through faith in Christ, the Word of God made flesh. The validity of our faith in Christ (the Word of God) is justified by the fruits of the Spirit that our works produce, which keeps our faith from being dead.
---Shawn.M.T on 12/26/07

It is completely true.GOD always keeps HIS Word.We can completely turn our back on GOD the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.HE does give us free will.I can hardly imagine anyone doing that but the bible says some will.
---shirley on 12/26/07

#10. We must always remember that Jesus, God's Son who died on the cross in order to give us the gift of Salvation, is always there to help us. God is always faithful in His promise, but we [His Children, The Saved] must also be faithful. It is the only way we will enter into our "final salvation" [the point when God gives us our crowd of life].

"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial . . .he will receive the crown of life that God has promised . . . ." (James 1:12).
---Ramon on 12/26/07

#11. "...if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish. As the nations which the LORD destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish, because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God." (Deut 8:19-20).

God was faithful in telling the people what will happened if they do not remain faithful and "obey his commandments". Nothing has change.
---Ramon on 12/26/07

#12. On a quick note: Some point to Phil 1:6 to either to prove osas or to prove the faithfulness of man is not important.

Phil 1:6 needs to be read in the light of the whole book. Phil 2:12 declares that his Church group always obeyed in Paul's presence, not only that, they was also enduring the same struggles Paul went through (1:29,30). Paul will aid them with His prayers, which is why He felt confidence in 1:6. These Christians remain faithful. So should we!
---Ramon on 12/26/07

#2 One must continue to believe, have faith, and live a holy life, if he ever want to obtain the crowd of life. A true genuine Christian can fall from grace as Jesus and the Apostles taught (Lk. 8:13, 1 Tim 5:14,15, etc).

Like Revelation 13:10, we also read the same thing in Revelation 14:9-12. Here again we read of faithfulness, but it's faithfulness on the part of the saints of God, not God's faithfulness to Christians.
---Ramon on 12/26/07

#3 Salvation is a free gift of God. Yet the Bible give numerous warnings to saved Christians about the possibility of falling from grace, if we do not hold on to the truth, resist sin, etc (Heb 3:6, 14, 10:23 Gal 6:8).

Why is this? Because in spite of God's faithfulness, there is still the free will of individual and his personal responsibility that are involved here. Hence, the believers faithfulness! God's faithfulness and our faithfulness must work hand-in-hand. This is the Grace Gospel!
---Ramon on 12/26/07

#4 A close examination of Rev 2:10, 11 reveals these 3 truths:

1) Persecution is a test.
2) "To be faithful, even to the point of death" refers to enduring painful persecution as a Christian without disowning Christ (cf 2 Tim 3:12).
3) While Rev 2:10 shows what we receive by being faithful to the point of death, verse 11 shows what we miss-namely the lake of fire.

Hence, if we are not faithful to the point of death we will not get the crown of life. It's a package deal!
---Ramon on 12/26/07

#5 "We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first" (Heb 3:14)

"All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved." (Mt. 10:22).

"If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him,he will also disown us,if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself" (2 Tim 2:12-13).
---Ramon on 12/26/07

#6 John 15:5-6 "I am the vine, you are the branches, he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up, and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

1 Timothy 1:18-21 "fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. . ."
---Ramon on 12/26/07

#7 "Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain" (1 Corinthians 15:58).

Remember, all of these passages were written to those who are saved, otherwise the warnings are senseless.

The Bible mention the need of believers' faithfulness. Like the Apostle Paul wrote, "A man reaps what he sows. . . " (Gal 6:7). He was talking to the saved!
---Ramon on 12/26/07

#8 "Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book"(Ex 32:33)

The problem is that many people think that they don't need to show any responsibilities towards God's gift of salvation.

Yet we are told that we must remain faithful in the Bible! Jn 5:25 "whoever hears my word and believes [the Greek word means "continuously believing"] ...has crossed over from death to life." Jesus taught the need of "continually" believing in Him.
---Ramon on 12/26/07

#9 You can just about open up your Bible to any page and find a reference to God's hatred of sin. No one after reading the Bible from cover to cover, should be able to make the conclusion that God winks at iniquity.

God never made a exception. The Lord clearly taught certain sin (not just unbelief) could cause one to die spiritually and not enter the kingdom (Mk 9:42-48).

Christians are called to remain faithful and ignore sin. The Apostle Paul and John taught the same thing.
---Ramon on 12/26/07

The issue here is not whether or not God is faithful, but are we faithful? Speaking with this subject, OSAS teachers would like you to think that your faithfulness, obedience, and fleeing from every sin, has nothing to with your salvation. This is of course is one of the lies of OSAS.

In Rev 13:10, we read of faithfulness, but this time is clearly not God's faithfulness to us, instead it is the need our faithfulness to him. Both the OT and NT profess the need of our faithfulness.
---Ramon on 12/26/07

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Partially true. If we don't forgive our fellow man then neither will God forgive us.
If we don't show mercy then neither will God show mercy.
If we deny him, he will deny us.
Those verses do show that we have a responsibilty to be faithful to the salvation provided for us. Not that we could boast but it is just expected that we walk in the salvation already provide by the Lord.
---john on 12/25/07

Absolutely true.

If salvation were dependent on human faithfulness all would be hell bound.

Even with a new heart and a spirit to guide us at some point a man's courage will fail him.

Temptation from without and from within, the battle rages with more consistency than a weak body of flesh is capable of.
---Pharisee on 12/25/07

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