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The Thief Was Not Baptised

The thief on the Cross was forgiven before Christ died and rose again. The gospel hadnt happen yet so he didnt have to follow it. Since he was saved under the old covenet why to most use this example to throw out the importance of baptism, when the thief didnt have to be baptised to begin with?

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 ---Kraus on 1/10/08
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Jesus' death alone paid for our sins (Romans 5:8, 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus' payment for our sins is appropriated to our "account" by faith alone (John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation, but cannot be a requirement for salvation.
---Court7646 on 2/28/08


Many do not understand that God put the Law to death at the birth of Jesus Christ.

This is where many fail to understand the Old Testament, they do not separate the promise from the Law.

The Promise is eternal.

God gave the inheritance to Abraham by promise, Gal 3:18. We are Abraham's seed, in Christ and heirs according to the promise.

We are not heirs according to the Law.
---Michelle on 2/15/08


The Law was never more than a stop-gap measure until Jesus Christ came.

God was going to kill all of the people when they were found worshipping the golden calf.

That was when God gave the Law, in which God took no pleasure, Hebrews 10:5-10, to preserve the people until the coming of Jesus Christ, through whom the promise was made.
---Michelle on 2/15/08


The thief was made an heir according to the Promise, Jesus Christ, who was right there with the thief.

The thief and Christians are Abraham's seed in Christ, and heirs according to the Promise that is eternal.

The thief was not made an heir by the Law and neither are we.
---Michelle on 2/15/08


Matt3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark16:16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe, In my name shall they cast out devils, they shall speak with new tongues,
Keep reading(not enough space)
---Duane_M on 1/24/08




Steveng:

I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to read through the entire bible cover to cover with a fine-toothed comb every time somebody asserts something without proof and then says "go look for it yourself". There are so many comments on so many blogs here, that to do that would be a full-time job in itself.

If it's "surely there", then surely you could point out where it is?
---StrongAxe on 1/24/08


It's amazing the today's Christians are so educated that they know the Bible. A child has more understanding of Scripture than 97% of Christian adults. You can understand the simple message of the kingdom of God through the eyes of a child.
---Steveng on 1/23/08


1)
I understand that there are 2 baptisms in the normal order
of things. Also that there is an order to them and that they
are complimentary of each other.
---Nana on 1/23/08


2)
Mark 1:4: "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the
baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." First one.
Mark 1:8: "I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall
baptize you with the Holy Ghost." Second baptism announced.
---Nana on 1/23/08


3)
John 3:22: "After these things came Jesus and his disciples into
the land of Judaea, and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23: And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim,
because there was much water there: and they came, and were
baptized."
---Nana on 1/23/08




4)
John and Jesus were baptizing concurrently as seen in John 3:22.
So john did not stop baptizing even after Jesus was baptized by
him and began baptizing himself.
What about the thief on the cross?
---Nana on 1/23/08


5)
Matt 27:41: "Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with
the scribes and elders, said, 42: He saved others, himself he
cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down
from the cross, and we will believe him. 43: He trusted in God,
let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am
the Son of God. 44: The thieves also, which were crucified with
him, cast the same in his teeth."
---Nana on 1/23/08


6)
Luke 23:39: "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed
on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40: But
the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God,
seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41: And we indeed justly,
for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man
hath done nothing amiss. 42: And he said unto Jesus, Lord,
remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. '
---Nana on 1/23/08


7)
The baptism of water was fulfilled by the thief's sayings in
verse 41 of Luke 23. After all, who would repent that knows not
of what he repents from? The man surely knew and said of his
guilt. He also knew and said it that Jesus was not guity. He
further aknowledged the Lordship of Jesus and was accepted of him.
---Nana on 1/23/08


StrongAxe: "Not "cancelled", but if it was sufficient, then why did the apostles insist on re-baptizing those who had already been baptized by John?"

The answer you seek is surely in the Scriptures. Search for it for what you will discover will help you tremendously.
---Steveng on 1/22/08


Steveng:

Not "cancelled", but if it was sufficient, then why did the apostles insist on re-baptizing those who had already been baptized by John?
---StrongAxe on 1/21/08


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StrongAxe: "He may well have been baptized by John, but that was not considered sufficient"

John the Baptist performed probably thousands of baptisms long before Jesus was baptised. Were they cancelled?
---Steveng on 1/20/08


Eloy:

If you read carefully what I wrote, I said "John's Baptism", NOT "Baptism in John's Name".

In Acts, when the apostles found some people who had been baptized by John, the insisted on RE-baptizing them in the name of Jesus.

This would NOT have been necessary if
1) John's baptism had ALREADY been in the name of Jesus (it wasn't)
or 2) if John's baptism would have been sufficient.
---StrongAxe on 1/19/08


Eloy, your seem to be dire need of Biblical reeducation as you are making a lot of statements that are not scriptural. There is no evidence that the thief was baptized in the name of Christ or any one else. Jesus is most definitely not YHWH. He is Yahshua the son of YHWH, they are not the same entity. Christ was always very careful and respectful of his subordinate status to the God the Father [YHWH}.
---Phil_the_Elder on 1/19/08


Kraus,
To answer your original question they do that for many various reasons.
The truth is that baptism is a public confession of faith as well as a work to manifest faith.
If a person goes farther they will seek the baptism of the Holy Ghost as a second witness to their faith.
Those who speak against either baptism many times don't have either. If they did they would fear God too much to speak foolishly.
Frank
---Frank on 1/19/08


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.strongaxe, Jesus is YHWH God. Baptism and water purifications to God have been ordained since the old testament. People were never baptized in John's name, instead John was a baptizer and not a deity to be baptized into. John baptized people in God's name, just as after Jesus was baptized and revealed that he was deity, people were baptized in Jesus' name. And before his ascension Jesus commanded all to be baptized into his name, but baptism was never in John's name.
---Eloy on 1/18/08


strongaxe, the thief on the cross was baptized before his execution justa as easily as Jesus' baptism was done before his execution. Do not try to intimate that Jesus' baptism was worthless, for it was done to fulfill all righteousness, years before the Pentecost.
---Eloy on 1/18/08


Could the thief have been one of John the Immerser(Baptister's)backslidden converts? At any course, Yeshua-Jesus has the last word in anything. There is no good reason for a Christian who has time to get Baptized, not to obey Christ's commandments and follow in legitimate early Church doctrine and practices.

It's a desire and understanding issue for those that say they beleive in Christ.

There has been alot of Anti-Christ lawless teachings involved with the post modern Church.
---yochanon on 1/17/08


Eloy and Kella3336:

How could the thief have been baptized, since baptism in Jesus's name did not begin until after Pentecost?

He may well have been baptized by John, but that was not considered sufficient (see Acts 19:2-4)
---StrongAxe on 1/17/08


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Eloy, I have thought the same thing: the thief could have already been baptized.
---Kella3336 on 1/17/08


Krause:: I have seen "Born Again " on these Blogs People swear by it But is it in the Bible Jn3:3 says born "from above?"Similarly Baptism of Desire is conclusive evidence That Jesus words "This day you will be with me in Paradise "is equavalent to Desire.Acceptence of Contrition & the desire is Its requirement.
---Emcee on 1/16/08


We are warned not to add to the Bible. The thief could very well have been baptized before his execution, just as Jesus also was baptized earlier.
---Eloy on 1/16/08


What is more powerful than setting an example. Jesus was baptised and He sets the example. If it were not a requirement, Jesus would say so. Jesus told the apostles to baptise with water. If it were not a requirement, why would Jesus command the apostles to do it?

Besides, if you believe that baptism isn't a requirement, what harm is there to get baptised just in case you are wrong.
---Steveng on 1/15/08


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Strongaxe-Water baptism ms an act of obedience, NOT a requirement for salvation:
1) If John 3:3-7 required water baptism, the thief on the cross would be in hell, because he was not baptized (and that would make Jesus a liar on the cross).



How do you know he was not baptized, he could had been before he die on the cross!
---Ruben on 1/15/08


Krause ::God's love is not limited. If a nonchristian man was dying in the desert & desired to owe allegiance To Almighty God & Had the contrition for His past misdemeanours,asks Pardon & dies. Does he Go to HELL inspite of His DESIRE, would that be Mumbo Jumbo? this is what the RCC teaches Baptism by desire.Learn about Jesus Church, guided by the H/S.
---Emcee on 1/15/08


Water baptism is NOT a requirement for salvation. John 3:3-7 shows that & so does Romans 10:9-10 & Ephesians 2:8-9.

There are several baptisms mentioned in the bible.

1. baptism unto repentance was O.T.
2. baptism in water mentioned by Jesus
3. baptism into the body of Christ(1Cor. 12)
4. baptism in the Holy Spirit(Matt. 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33)

Baptism is an act of obedience which leads to a good conscience.
---Rickey on 1/15/08


Janet - do you have any scripture for your statement? i have heard of the baptism of disire once before but only on this site. i have read the Bible thru many times and never seen it, do you have chapter and verse or is it some extra Biblical mumbo jumbo? Sarcasim aside i would like to know what that teaching is about.
---Kraus on 1/15/08


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Rickey:

Water baptism ms an act of obedience, NOT a requirement for salvation:
1) If John 3:3-7 required water baptism, the thief on the cross would be in hell, because he was not baptized (and that would make Jesus a liar on the cross).
2) Both Romans 10:9-10 and Ephesians 2:8-9 say FAITH is required and say NOTHING about baptism.
---StrongAxe on 1/15/08


"Water baptism is a requirement" I agree 100% Now where in prortestantism is the authority to administer in such holy ordiances as Baptism as the Apostles held? Protestantism is 450 years old.
---MikeM on 1/14/08


bottom line here is that yes baptism is commanded but it will not keep us out of heaven. Any one who says different needs to dig harder. If you do not seek baptism though when the opportunity is there then maybe you should examine your salvation experience. But the thief was not baptized, and yet Jesus said "today thou shalt be with me in paradise.
---evangelistjerry on 1/14/08


There are three types of Baptism, water, desire, and blood. The thief's baptism was one of desire. God is not limited in His capacity to save us.
---janet on 1/14/08


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I believe the lesson to be learnt from the event of The Good Thief,is 2 fold.1.His love of seeing an innocent man put to death,while He a thief merited the punishment was too much to bear.Hence His contrition, & willingness to accept Jesus as His God were the same as the requirements in baptism. ,2 Jesus saw his Genuiness, & gave, Him salvation by Desire.The struggle between Good & evil existed in the 2 men who were hanging on each side of Him.This is equivalent to our own struggle.
---Emcee on 1/14/08


Water baptism is a requirement for salvation. John 3:3-7 shows that & so does Romans 10:9-10 & Ephesians 2:8-9.

There are several baptisms mentioned in the bible.

1. baptism unto repentance was O.T.
2. baptism in water mentioned by Jesus
3. baptism into the body of Christ(1Cor. 12)
4. baptism in the Holy Spirit(Matt. 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33)

Baptism is an act of obedience which leads to a good conscience.
---Rickey on 1/14/08


Baptism is not some "magic ritual" that saves us - it is an act of obedience.

We are saved through faith - baptism is merely a visible sign of that faith. The thief on the cross had already demonstrated his faith, and he was also not in any position to be baptized - and, as we see, it didn't matter.
---StrongAxe on 1/14/08


Your question is leading or misleading. You mention old and new covenant. Since when did Jesus ever say anything about a New Covenant? Luke's gospel is the only place and he was wrong! Luke was NOT an eyewitness and got his information from others, mostly Paul. Please help me out here!
---Dr_Rich on 1/12/08


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Pt 2. Jesus tells us in Matt.28:18 "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you, and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." The thief couldn't be baptised because he was on the cross. I hope that this has helped.
---colupy on 1/12/08


Pt 1. Baptism doesn't save us but it is an outward showing to people that we have change from our own way of doing things to doing the will of our father in heaven.Baptism is taken from the greek word baptizo which means "immerse", not to pour or sprinkle on.
---colupy on 1/12/08


first off sry for such a loaded question. the thief is a bit of a hobby horse of mine as you might guess. now the question is how do we identify with the gospel? if the gospel is the news of Christ 1.Death 2.Burial 3.Resurrection we should obey by 1.repentance 2.baptism 3.living a Spirit filled life. since Christ was not buried (#2) the thief SHOULD NOT be baptized. that does not mean its unimportant for us today!
---Kraus on 1/12/08


No the thief wasn't bapttise he was the last one to live from the old testment And you couldn't be babtize in the new testment un till Jesus died. By repenting and been bibtize in Jesue name for the remission of sin thats when the blood of jesus is applied to us and our sin's removed and are gone
---Betty on 1/12/08


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Water baptism was before Christ died for the remission of sin.

Salvation comes through faith or belief, as the thief did on the cross.

Jesus baptises in the Holy Spirit and with fire.

John's ministry preceeded Christ's. Christ was very clear about baptism. It had to do with the Holy Spirit NOT with water.
---Ardith_Kay_Tolson on 1/11/08


Kraus:: People of today are not like the people of the OT.Their understanding is different based on the times & situations prevailing.This is an opinion.But the law of God when Given remains unchanged.This is a fact.I usually ignore questions with no foundation & mere conjecture.Do we dare to question the action of Jesus.It is insanity.
---Emcee on 1/11/08


In the bible evangelizing is something we are supposed to do.

2 Timothy 4

2Preach the Word, be prepared in season and out of season, correct, rebuke and encouragewith great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
---dawngordon on 1/11/08


Kraus:: People of today are not like the people of the OT.Their understanding is different based on the times & situations prevailing.This is an opinion.But the law of God when Given remains unchanged.This is a fact.I usually ignore questions with no foundation & mere conjecture.Do we dare to question the action of Jesus.It is insanity.
---Emcee on 1/11/08


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Scriptures on Glory for God in the flesh
Psalms 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him, all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him, and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
Isaiah 42:12 Let them give glory unto the LORD, and declare his praise in the islands
Revelation 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee, for thy judgments are made manifest.
---dawngordon on 1/11/08


Because pop-evangelicals try to be more spiritual than God Himself, Who works through material things, the foolish things of this world, and yea, things that are NOT, that NO FLESH may glory in His sight.
---Jack on 1/11/08


I disagree that the New Covenant was not binding at the time of the theif's death. Jesus is the New Covenant and his forgiveness stands at his word.

Baptism was initilly for gentile converts to judaism and it wasn't till John that Jews believed they needed it- this was the power of John's ministry, it was on personal accountability and the new covenant was to "them that believe"
---Pharisee on 1/10/08


For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, that no one should boast (Eph. 2:89).He knew it was the Lord was how he was saved.We have no record of the life of this man prior to his hanging on the cross beside our Lord.
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"luke 23
---dawngordon on 1/10/08


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