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Is Sola Scriptura Proper

"Sola Scriptura" was the foundational principle of the Protestant Reformation. If Scripture is to be the final authority of doctrine for Believers, why do so many Christians insist on interpreting Scripture through OUR culture or traditions, instead of simply reading what the text says?

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DrRich, correction, I wrote ambiguously. I believe the Bible is the Word of God. Not for the likes of you or me to pick and choose what we will believe.
---Warwick on 4/16/08


I read secular books, some churches recommend you only read the Bible. But in matters of faith, when people send me spiritual books, I dislike reading them. These are Christians who are being led astray, and I discern it, but I want to read the book to point out to them the errors. What I don't want is to subliminally be influenced by other ideas/errors that seem partially acceptable. Then, these same 'Christians' send me New Age stuff.
---frances008 on 4/15/08


It was a good thing I discovered the "mess" after I had discovered the straight testimony of Jesus, or I would have given up on the Bible. Yes, Warick, as you say, the bible is NOT the word of God, but it does contain the Word of God. We have a choice, search for the truth, or not.
---Dr.Rich on 4/15/08


As a Seventh day Adventist I want to lend my support to the truth of Sola Scriptura the Bible only is the judge of all doctrine and truth.
---Samuel on 4/14/08



But the Bible says the Church is " so that if I am delayed, you will know how people must conduct themselves in the household of God. This is the church of the living God, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth."(1 Tim 3:15)
---Ruben on 4/15/08


Rubin you wanted to know where the Bible claimed that were saved by faith well we aren't we're saved by Grace through Faith (Now for vs. 10) to do good works which God, who is soveregn, prepard before we were saved to do. The works don't save us the church doesn't save us, God's Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ saves us.
---Gilbert on 4/15/08




Samuel - Article 18 of the SDA Fundamental Beliefs totally disowns the belief that Adventist believe in Sola Scriptura as Sola Scriptura honors no other authoritative source for the Christain life than the Bible.

SDA Article 18 simply states that the writings of Ellen White 'are a continuing & authoritative source of truth that provide for the church comfort, guidance,instruction & correction' much on the same level as stated in 2 Tim. 3:16.

As authoritative they overrule Scripture.
---Lee on 4/15/08


Ruben, we, those saved by grace alone, definitely have good works to do, as God commands. But these are for those who are saved by faith in His grace alone, by what Jesus accomplished upon the cross. We are not saved by works,they are our pleasure and our duty, post-conversion.

If we can be saved by our works then Jesus died in vain.
---Warwick on 4/15/08


Hey DrRich I think you should stop beating around the bush and admit you believe the whole Bible to be a man-made mess?

maybe you believe it contains the Word of God, but isn't the Word of God as I do.
---Warwick on 4/15/08


As a Seventh day Adventist I want to lend my support to the truth of Sola Scriptura the Bible only is the judge of all doctrine and truth.
---Samuel on 4/14/08


Ruben, read Eph. 2:8,9. Something about Grace through Faith not of works. Sola Fide.
---Gilbert on 4/14/08



Gilbert you left out verse 10 :Passage Ephesians 2:10:
"For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do "good works", which God prepared in advance for us to do."
---Ruben on 4/14/08




To answer this one must investigate how the New Testament was put together and why. God did not chose what went into the New Testament.
---Dr.Rich on 4/14/08


Ruben, read Eph. 2:8,9. Something about Grace through Faith not of works. Sola Fide.
---Gilbert on 4/14/08


For the Biblical Christians, it is sola scriptura (Bible only) but for Romanism it is sola Romanus ecclesia (church of Rome only).

The Bible in itself can lend no support for some Roman Church doctrines and like the Adventists and Mormons must resort to other 'sacred' writings to support their doctrinal beliefs.
---Lee on 4/2/08



Lee it not Rome Only,....It is Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Tradition, by the way it is what the Bible teaches...
---Ruben on 4/3/08


The Bible in itself can lend no support for some Roman Church doctrines and like the Adventists and Mormons must resort to other 'sacred' writings to support their doctrinal beliefs.
---Lee on 4/2/08


Lee can you show me where the Bible provides us with the list of the canonical book of the NT, explain the Doctrine of the Trinity or even use the word Trinity or say Salvation is attain only by Faith Alone?
---Ruben on 4/3/08


The Bible in itself can lend no support for some Roman Church doctrines and like the Adventists and Mormons must resort to other 'sacred' writings to support their doctrinal beliefs.
---Lee on 4/2/08



The Bible itself can lend no support for Bible only, so you ourself go by other "sacred writing", like Martin Luther. In fact the Bible say the "Church is the pillar and foundation of truth"(1 Tim 3:15)
---ruben on 4/3/08


For the Biblical Christians, it is sola scriptura (Bible only) but for Romanism it is sola Romanus ecclesia (church of Rome only).

The Bible in itself can lend no support for some Roman Church doctrines and like the Adventists and Mormons must resort to other 'sacred' writings to support their doctrinal beliefs.
---Lee on 4/2/08


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Rueben, let me tell you why I believe that Sola Sciptura is proper -

Since the Bible is Word of God,I consider it the final authority.
---Allison on 4/2/08



It's great that you consider the bible to be final authorithy, but the bible says the Church is " if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth."(1 Tim 3:15)
---Ruben on 4/2/08


Rueben, let me tell you why I believe that Sola Sciptura is proper -not only do I believe the Christmas story as told in Luke but in Psalms 119:11 David says to the Lord "Thy Word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee."
In 2 Timothy 3:16 it says,"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
Since the Bible is Word of God,I consider it the final authority.
---Allison on 4/2/08


Your question starts with a wrong assumption. The Reformation was not founded on Scripture alone, but on faith alone. The just shall live by faith. In Christ\Ian
---Ian_8763 on 3/31/08



Passage James 2:24:
"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone"
---Ruben on 4/1/08


Not only have we gotten away from the idea of worship on the Sabbath but we have decided that the birth of Christ is on December the 25th but it cannot be . Just read the scriptures in Luke 2:1,8 "And it it came there went a decree from Caesar Augustus that every man should be taxed."
"And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field,..."
How can this be true if 12/25 is the birth of Christ because these things could not have happened ?
---Allison on 4/1/08


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The FINAL authority "SWORD OF THE SPIRIT" (Ephesians 6:17).

The introductory doctrine of Christ (Hebrews 6:1) is the "WORD OF TRUTH" (2 Timothy 2:15, Ephesians 1:13, John 14:6) which we should "HEAR" (John 10:27) in order to "enter by the door" (John 10:1) which many "hirelings" prevent (John 10:13).
---greg on 4/1/08


We must have "rivers of living water" (John 7:38) that were also mixed with Christ's blood at the cross, because eating of the bread of life is not enough (Rev. 7:16).

Our goodness should not be by COMPULSION (instructions from a book or pastor), but from our own free will conscience (Philemon verse 14)...our spirit/character should be holy.
---greg on 4/1/08


Your question starts with a wrong assumption. The Reformation was not founded on Scripture alone, but on faith alone. The just shall live by faith. In Christ\Ian
---Ian_8763 on 3/31/08


Beats me Ruben. Maybe because the bureaucrats got involved burrying things in committees, like the politicians do today.

It's a possibility. Do you know why it took so long?
---warwick on 3/26/08



Yes, so many Gospels and letters to choose from, it took a while to go thru them all! Even the ones they select some of them were still debating on them...
---Ruben on 3/27/08


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Ruben - *Really, why then did it take until 382, 397, 402 to determine which books belong in the bible?

Possibly because those early years were years of hardship & persecution for the church with little opportunity to gather for formal recognition to what constituted scripture.

And there were problems of copying & distributing what was viewed as Scripture.

Basic doctrines were taught using such writings as the gospels, the Didache and other catechistic type materials.
---Lee on 3/26/08


Beats me Ruben. Maybe because the bureaucrats got involved burrying things in committees, like the politicians do today.

It's a possibility. Do you know why it took so long?
---warwick on 3/26/08


It is much the same as with the Old Testament as the saints of the church were pretty much in agreement as to what books constituted Scripture.
---Lee on 3/26/08




Really, why then did it take until 382, 397, 402 to determine which books belong in the bible?
---Ruben on 3/26/08


As far as the OT goes we have a big fat clue if we include all the books which Jesus and the apostles quoted from as Scripture!

The NT is the OT revealed, the OT the NT concealed. That written in the NT is fulfillment of the OT and its promises, and in accord with it.

Remember there are wolves here, dressed as sheep the wolves of Matt. 7:15-23. Anyone who comes proposing another Gospel, or attempting to undermine the truth of God's Word is a wolf, and an enemy of God. Don't be gullible.
---Warwick on 3/26/08


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It is much the same as with the Old Testament as the saints of the church were pretty much in agreement as to what books constituted Scripture.
---Lee on 3/26/08



7 books which you are missing in your bible, why, if the saints of the Church were in agreement?
---Ruben on 3/26/08


Ruben -m *But where in scripture does the Holy Spirit tell us which books belong in the bible.

It is much the same as with the Old Testament as the saints of the church were pretty much in agreement as to what books constituted Scripture.
---Lee on 3/26/08


While it may have been 'authorative',the Holy Spirit superintendented what letters were to be included in the NT and did not include several letters written by the Apostles such as personal letters written to aunts, uncles, friends, grocery listings, etc.

You cannot develop doctrines from what the Spirit of God has not declared to be Scripture.
---Lee on 3/25/08



But where in scripture does the Holy Spirit tell us which books belong in the bible.
---Ruben on 3/26/08


Ruben - *Paul is talking about a prior letter he wrote to the Corinth Christians that is equally authoriate but not in the New Testament!

While it may have been 'authorative',the Holy Spirit superintendented what letters were to be included in the NT and did not include several letters written by the Apostles such as personal letters written to aunts, uncles, friends, grocery listings, etc.

You cannot develop doctrines from what the Spirit of God has not declared to be Scripture.
---Lee on 3/25/08


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1 Cor 4:6 that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
---Lee on 3/25/08



'I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people not at all But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother( 1 Cor 5:9-11)
Hear, Paul is talking about a prior letter he wrote to the Corinth Christians that is equally authoriate but not in the New Testament!
---Ruben on 3/25/08


John 21:25: Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

While true we are not to look for doctrinal beliefs in things that are not written down.

1 Cor 4:6 I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
---Lee on 3/25/08


Mt. 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

And where else does one find the word of God except in Scripture alone?
---Lee on 3/24/08



Remember you had Satan also using scripture alone and Jesus rebuttal with scripture(Man does not live by bread alone) and Tradition(But every word that comes out of his mouth)
---Ruben on 3/25/08


Mt. 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

And where else does one find the word of God except in Scripture alone?
---Lee on 3/24/08




Not by scripture only :Passage John 21:25:

"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the "whole world would not have room for the books" that would be written.
---Ruben on 3/25/08


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Greyrider I just noticed that on 18/3 you appeared to use the name 'Catholic Church' as though it is synonomous with Roman Catholic Church. Catholic means universal while Roman Catholic denotes only the Roman part of the universal Catholic Church.
---Warwick on 3/24/08


Ruben - *Can you show me where the Bible says it is the final authorithy?

Mt. 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

And where else does one find the word of God except in Scripture alone?
---Lee on 3/24/08


The bible tells us it is the final authority in all things. JESUS appealed to scriptures and said Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
---Samuel on 3/22/08


Can you show me where the Bible says it is the final authorithy? Satan also use scripture and he was making his own interpretation!
---Ruben on 3/24/08


Lee said :*Traditions must agree with the Bible to be true.

And is 'traditions' established by the Apostles themselves agree with the Bible or just ones personal interpretation of it?




Would you be so kind and show me where the Apostles or the Bible provides for us a list of the canonical books for the Ot and the NT?
---Ruben on 3/24/08


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A good review of that subject is found in 'the Church of Rome at the Bar of History' by William Webster. Suggest you acquire a copy for your own enlightenment.
---Lee on 3/22/08



I have, Webster who quotes from J.N.D. Kelly at times, this is what Kelly wrote "The Eurcharist was also, of course, the great act of worship of christians sacrifice. The writiers and liturgies of the period are "unanimous" in recognizing it as such"(Early Church Doctrines, p214)
---Ruben on 3/24/08


A good review of that subject is found in 'the Church of Rome at the Bar of History' by William Webster.
---Lee on 3/22/08



Webster himself wrote "From the beginning of the Church the Fathers generally expressed their beliefs in the Real Presense in the Eurcharist, in that they indentified the elements with the Body and Blood of Christ, and also referred to the Eucharist as a Sacrifice ( The Church of Rome at the Bar of History, p117)
---Ruben on 3/24/08


Lee said: And if you read the writings of the early church fathers, you will find that they did not even possess a consensus of interpretation on the Lord's supper (Eucharist).


Please give me some names of the Early Church Fathers that you are talking about?...Thanks
---Ruben on 3/24/08


And one such tradition established by the Apostles was communal worship on Sundays. Did such tradition conflict with Scripture? Not in the least as there is virtually nothing in the New Covenant of the church that mandates one observe any day of the week, including the OT Sabbath.
---Lee on 3/24/08


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Many here have great respect for 'the traditions of men' and less for God's Word.

Should we trust man's traditions? Not if Scripture is to be believed-Col 2:8 'See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends upon human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.' This contradicts human ideas expressed here.

Sola Scripture yes! The option is fancies of fallen sinful,imperfect men-God save us from that!
---Warwick on 3/23/08


*Traditions must agree with the Bible to be true.

And is 'traditions' established by the Apostles themselves agree with the Bible or just ones personal interpretation of it?

1Co 11:2 Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.

The Apostles established the tradition of communal worship on Sundays - we can see that as the early church no longer observed the OT Sabbath by the beginning of the 2d century.
---Lee on 3/22/08


The bible tells us it is the final authority in all things. JESUS appealed to scriptures and said Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Traditions must agree with the Bible to be true. Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using,) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
---Samuel on 3/22/08


ruben - *Even a better reference is the Early Church Fathers edition...

And if you read the writings of the early church fathers, you will find that they did not even possess a consensus of interpretation on the Lord's supper (Eucharist).

A good review of that subject is found in 'the Church of Rome at the Bar of History' by William Webster. Suggest you acquire a copy for your own enlightenment.
---Lee on 3/22/08


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A good reference is Studies in the Gospel of John "Light in the Darkness" by H. Kent.

Simply put, I reject the Roman Church shamanistic interpretation.
---Lee on 3/20/08



Even a better reference is the Early Church Fathers edition...
---ruben on 3/21/08


It matter when Jesus himself says " Whoever eats my Flesh and drinks My blood I will raise up on the last days

While true, there is no miracle involved as the eating His Flesh & drinking His blood is simply a literary way of saying to take to oneself and assimilate the effects of Christ's sacrifice on our behalf.

A good reference is Studies in the Gospel of John "Light in the Darkness" by H. Kent.

Simply put, I reject the Roman Church shamanistic interpretation.
---Lee on 3/20/08


Lee said: what one eats or has chosen not to eat (Romans 14),



It matter when Jesus himself says " Whoever eats my Flesh and drinks My blood I will raise up on the last days


Lee said : and of course differences in interpretation


"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all say the same thing, and there be no dissensions among you,"
1Corinthians 1:10
---Ruben on 3/20/08


Lee said:And neither scripture nor church history even indicates that the church Jesus build was the Roman Catholic Church.


Lee, I have more History that the Catholic Church is the Church that was built on Peter, you my friend have no history on Sola Scriptura..., unless you want to say martin luther.
---Ruben on 3/20/08


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Lee said :Those in whom the Spirit of God indwelts (Romans 8:9), those who have been born again in Christ (John 3:3) of which there is no condemnation (Romans 8:1)


Guess what, those whom the Spirit of God indwelts disagree among themselfs, why would the Spirit of God do that to the born again in Christ.
---Ruben on 3/20/08


Ruben - *... which true believers are you talking about?

Those in whom the Spirit of God indwelts (Romans 8:9), those who have been born again in Christ (John 3:3) of which there is no condemnation (Romans 8:1)

What you have in view is non-essentials, things like the day one keeps,what one eats or has chosen not to eat (Romans 14), and of course differences in interpretation.

Ga 6:15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
---Lee on 3/19/08


Lee said :There is really no logical reason to believe the church Paul was speaking of was anything than that body of all true believers in Christ.


Adventists insist on saturday worship.
Methodists say it ok to ordain women.
Prebyterians baptize infants
Lutherans truly believe in the Eurcharist.
If I am correct you do not believe in either one of them, which true believers are you talking about?
---Ruben on 3/19/08


Ruben - *Scripture : "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this Rock I will build my church"

And neither scripture nor church history even indicates that the church Jesus build was the Roman Catholic Church.

The Roman Catholic church view is fraught with more assumptions than proven facts. It merely reflects the arrogance of the Roman Church in the hungry for power over others.
---Lee on 3/19/08


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Lee said :The belief that it was the Roman Catholic church cannot be supported either by scripture or by church history.



Scripture : "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this Rock I will build my church"

History :"I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church."
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D..
---Ruben on 3/18/08


Who decides? the testimony of both scripture & history.
---Lee on 3/17/08



Scripture: " My Flesh is real Food, and my Blood is real Drink"(Jhn 6:55)

History :St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Romans, 7:3, 106AD
"I desire the bread of GOD, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ."
---Ruben on 3/18/08


Lee, Ignatius of Antioch was using the term "Catholic Church" as an old, well-known term by the close of the first century. He was personally trained by Peter and John. Unless Peter and John were involved in a secret conspiracy against Jesus, to alter truth and create their own religion, Paul WAS referring to the RCC.
---Greyrider on 3/18/08


Greyrider - "History" according to the National Enquirer and the internet.

I would prefer history that can be verified by competent historians, not that composed to serve the agenda of some religious body.
---Lee on 3/18/08


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Ruben - What Church is Paul talking about and What Truth are you saying? We disagree on many scriptures, we both cannot be right nor can we be wrong, who decides?

There is really no logical reason to believe the church Paul was speaking of was anything than that body of all true believers in Christ.

The belief that it was the Roman Catholic church cannot be supported either by scripture or by church history.

Who decides? the testimony of both scripture & history.
---Lee on 3/17/08


Gena7, you still haven't shown me one passage where we are told we cannot worship, sing or rest any given day. You showed me what the law was under the Old Covenant, but have not shown me one where God says, "from now on, you cannot worship sing study or rest on any given day." I only ask for one passage not twenty. You can love Jesus everyday, sing everyday, rest if you like any day of the week. Praise be to God in the highest that His Son came or we would still be under the law.
---Mark_V. on 3/17/08


Ruben - *"He who listens to you listens to me, he who rejects you rejects me, but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." (luke 10:16)

A pillar is a support that holds something up, in this case, it is the truth as found in Scripture not in some ecclesiastical body.
---Lee on 3/15/08



What Church is Paul talking about and What Truth are you saying? We disagree on many scriptures, we both cannot be right nor can we be wrong, who decides?
---Ruben on 3/17/08


"History" according to the National Enquirer and the internet.
---Greyrider on 3/17/08


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3)


PRIDE makes mankind remain LOYAL to their religious instituion ...pride uses Gods Word against Gods Truth

if you brush up on history it's all there in black and white YOU CAN DENY it - fluff over it - ignore it - but the fact still remains FORCE started the RCC and once people submitted to its slavery the continued brainwashing became easier on its current subjects and their following began
---Rhonda on 3/15/08


1)
****think about it. EVERY book of the New Testament was written (physically - I understand it was inspired) by a member of the leadership of the RCC. Deny it if you want, but that is a historical fact***

what a perfect example of religious brainwashing the PRIDE of religious organization ...holding fast to the traditions of men polluting Gods Truth
---Rhonda on 3/15/08


2)
the Apostles were NEVER part of ANY MAN MADE religious system

RCC was not established until long after the Bible was written

and yes the historical facts about the abominations the RCC commited still remain ....KILLING more than 50 million people in order to FORCE their subjects to believe - initially FORCE was used to brainwash their flock
---Rhonda on 3/15/08


Mark V: "You can rest whenever you have time to rest." God disagrees:

Exo 20:8-10 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work,

Of course, if you have replaced God ...
---jerry6593 on 3/15/08


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In fact,Romans 14 tells us that one may esteem one day over another or none at all.
---Lee 3/12/08
No, Romans 14 does not make 1 of the commandments of God, specifically that one that Jesus says to "Remember", optional.
There were those who were still keeping the feast days, which are no longer necessary to keep as they pointed to the coming Messiah, who had already come, and arguements came up over it. This does not apply to 1 of the 10 commandments
---Gina7 on 3/15/08


Ruben - *Jesus gave us a Church who is "the pillar and foundation of the truth."(1 Tim 3:15) and also he said " "He who listens to you listens to me, he who rejects you rejects me, but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." (luke 10:16)

A pillar is a support that holds something up, in this case, it is the truth as found in Scripture not in some ecclesiastical body.
---Lee on 3/15/08


Gena, can you show where in Scripture it says we should worship on Saturday's only, and no other day?
---Mark_V. on 3/13/08
"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. 6 days shalt thou labor and do all thy work, but the 7th day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God..." Exodus 20:8-11

The 7th day is Saturday. The other 6 days are WORKING days. Saturday is the only blessed, and sanctified, set apart as holy day. No other day is to be observed as the Sabbath
---Gina7 on 3/15/08


Thank you Gena, so that I can make sure I am addressing her since your believes are different then hers. Blessings to you also sister. God is just awesome isn't He?
---Mark_V. on 3/14/08


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Oh, Oh! Mark V, I think you mean Gina7, NOT Gena (me). I am not Gina7 and don't agree with her. :) Be blessed!
Gena
---Gena on 3/14/08


Gena, can you show where in Scripture it says we should worship on Saturday's only, and no other day? I don't think you can do that. You are in bondage to the Law. We have been set free Gena, you can love the Lord with all your heart and soul and sing and study and love Him everyday of the week. You can rest whenever you have time to rest. you might work on Saturday or not, so when you get a day off, you can rest on that day. God loves you Gena.
---Mark_V. on 3/13/08


gina - *Out of LOVE, we should want to obey the Saviour and remember the Sabbath

I think you will find most genuine Christians on this forum highly desirous of obeying the Lord in all possible ways, but there is nothing in the covenant of the church that commands Christians to observe any day of the week. In fact,Romans 14 tells us that one may esteem one day over another or none at all.
---Lee on 3/12/08


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