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Flood Of Noah Global

Was the flood of Noah global or was it restricted to the area where Adam lived?

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Thanks for your support, Alan of UK. Once you are spiritually able to see things, you love the Truth, and also the truth and you find that they are convergent and interdependent. If we believe lies that the enemy is putting about, then we cannot come to accept the spiritual authority of the Bible and will fall as soon as the Bible seems to contradict what we see every day. (Remember this world has become a product of Satan).
---frances008 on 3/22/08


Ian: Thanks for your story. Your background somewhat parallels mine. I too was steeped in the atheistic dogma of academia with a major in physics and minors in math, geology and astronomy. Only at the prompting of the Holy Spirit many years later did I begin to question some of the "science" I had been taught. The more I dug, the more I found holes in the "theories" I had once been so sure of. Now it is abundantly evident to me that the Bible is in complete harmony with science.
---jerry6593 on 3/22/08


alan of uk
what book are you reading as Christian scripture? If it has no record of the animals on the ark, it is not CHRISTIAN scripture.

If you are reading the NKJV, it is not pure Holy Christian Scripture (look at the logo on the front cover, 3 points and 6 lines,...666).
---greg on 3/21/08


Chris: the word orthodox in Christianity means body of commonly held Truth[The Bible]. Held by the body of Christ. God used the Kiss Principle to give us the Bible[keep it simple because I'm stupid]. The best way to read the Bible is by using this principle[if the first sense makes good sense, seek no other sense. Give it a try when you read your Bible. In Christ\ian
---ian8763 on 3/20/08


Chris: As for Division in the Body of Christ, With one divisive Martin Luther, God started the second greatest revival of the Christian Church, he brought back one truth, long forgotten. The Just Shall Live By Faith. Divisive men standing alone, God uses. Jean Calvin, John Knox, Wycliff, John Wesley, George Whitfield, Jonathan Edwards, and my favorite William Tyndale. He translated the New Testament into English and signed it in his own blood. One Man With God is a majority. In Christ\Ian
---ian8763 on 3/20/08




Thanks for your kind and encouraging comments Ian. I never think of my self as ultra orthodox rather preferring to consider myself a Bible believer. Others insist they are Bible believers but persist for months passionately defending their anti-Biblical views.

I took it to heart when I read that Jesus expects me to defend Him before man, and that if I do that He will then defend me before the Father.
---Warwick on 3/20/08


Alan you are so consistent in your refusal to believe the Biblical version. And you wonder why I doubt your sincerity. If you trusted God you would not write of Scripture as some purely human document!

Consider: Platypus fossils were found in Patagonia, Hippopotamus fossils in Norfolk UK, Sabre Tooth Tiger in Los Angeles. None of them there today!

Re animal distribution post flood: Is it not feasible that animals exist today where they have survived?
---Warwick on 3/20/08


Alan the evidence of our world's past is catastrophism, often on a great scale. On a small scale Mt St Helens shows what even one very small volcanic eruption can do in just a short time.

Have a read up on the island of Surtsey which appeared rapidly from the ocean and in just a few months the geologist Thorarinnson wrote that it already looked old! If the conditions are right landforms can rise very quickly. It isn't rising fast anymore.
---Warwick on 3/20/08


Alan, what have I said about you which isn't justified?

The evidence of my eyes is that numerous people appear here endeavouring to destroy the faith of others in the historical Truth of Scripture. 'God-haters' is simply a descriptive term.

I think you're in a different category as your technique is always to say that a particular Scripture could mean this or that- but rarely the straight-forward meaning, not the view Jesus or Apostles took.

You answer questions evasively.
---Warwick on 3/20/08


Chris the point isdo you believe His Word, or not?
Jesus said 'I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe, how will you then believe if I speak of heavenly things?' John 3:12. Jesus believed the OT was historical truth including the world-wide flood so why would any Christian disagree?

Isn't it hypocrisy to reject the truth of the flood and accept the truth of salvation?

The attitude people take to Scripture reveals the true heart Chris.
---Warwick on 3/20/08




Alan there you go again,again,again with an evasive answer. Let us nail this once and for all!

The question for you: If you say something written in Scripture is 'truth' does that mean it has actually happened, as described, in history.

Please give us a straight answer for once. Yes or No?
---Warwick on 3/20/08


I read on Sunday that some scientists had found a new species of bird in SE Asia. Scientists think they know it all but almost every day new discoveries are made. God could have made new species any day of this week. We just do not know. He is a God of endless miracles and recreates all the time. Pandas may fall in that category together with kangaroos etc. (Kangaroos would not have been pleasant passengers on a confined Ark.)
---frances008 on 3/20/08


What Dan had to say below got ignored by many people. T Rex was supposedly a carnivore, as I recall, so why would it have herbivore-type teeth? I think that is a good point. Carnivores eat meat and herbivores eat vege. T Rex was also a band's name, I wonder if they were another NWO mind control band like the Beatles.
---frances008 on 3/20/08


Ian, Thank you for your reply. I do understand that ultra-orthodox beliefs do appeal to some and I am not trying to undermine your faith. At the same time, I would ask you to understand my concern. I believe it is more important to believe in Christ and follow his teachings, than to argue about the flood. The arguing is worthless because it brings no one to Christ and simply divides the body of Christ (christians). And, I admit I have been too argumentative about this.
---chris on 3/20/08


Frances ... but no record anywhere in teh Bible of these animals, nor of them being transported on these epic voyages.
I suggest there is a simpler answer ... that the writers of the history of the Jewish people did not know about them, nor about the other continents, and so did not have to explain how the animals got there.
---alan_of_UK on 3/20/08


Chris: part4: Little boy becomes conflicted, angry, atheistic evolutionist.Ends up a drunkard, drug addict, Scoffer, reserved for fire, an ungodly man. But God Had Mercy On Even Me.! My story is not the exception today, it is the rule. I thank my God, for ultra orthodox men like Warwick who give this little boy his Jesus back. In Christ Jesus my Lord\Ian
---ian8763 on 3/19/08


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Part3: Chris: a little boy went to Sunday school, Learned of the Great God Creator, learned of fallen man, learned about global flood, Learned of the Great Redeemer, Jesus Saviour. God in the flesh. Simple Faith.
Little boy goes to school, learns it is all a lie, 65 million year creation, no flood, God lied, Jesus spoke about creation and the flood, Jesus lied. The Bible is full of lies. Who can Jesus save.
---ian8763 on 3/19/08


Chris, part one: 2 Peter 3:3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts. And saying, where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they are willingly ignorant of , that by the Word of God the heavens were of old, and the world standing out of the water, and in the water.[Water canopy-Genesis 1/7 & 8 Whereby the world that then was, perished.
---ian8763 on 3/19/08


Part2 Chris: 2 Peter3-7-but the heavens and the earth, which are now, reserved under fire against the Day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. I don't know your heart but Peter said people who deny the creation and the world flood are lustful scoffers and ungodly men..... I would like to tell you a story.
---Aian8763 on 3/19/08


Chris ... Join the club!!
---alan_of_UK on 3/19/08


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There is always a simple answer to these doubters questions. Possibly some of Noah's family took the animals on boats to other continents and settled there themselves. The Phoenicians later went all over the world with all kinds of cargoes. It is possible they went to Australia/America etc. with different species. Maybe the animals left could not survive in the climate of the middle east.
---frances008 on 3/19/08


Frances ... "Why are Australian animals different? Clearly there were limited numbers on the Ark and so they could not spread out all over the world"
One could ask the same as about South American llamas.
i wonder how Noah distributed all thse unique species to their own peculiar dwelling areas ... He let none out of the Ark till it was firmly on a dry mountain top, and presumably by then the continents were separated by water.
---alan_of_UK on 3/19/08


Warwick ... "As we know mountains are still rising today it is a reasonable assumption they were much lower in the past. Therefore there is plenty of water in the oceans to cover the earth"
The rise in the mountains must have been much faster in the past than today, if they were to have reached their present elevation in 6000 years.
And no record in the Bible of these growing mountains?
---alan_of_UK on 3/19/08


Warwick ... My responses to yuohave given motre answers that yours to me. You still have not answered about how you justify certain things yuo said about me.
And I have just noticed your reference to "God haters"
Tush!
---alan_of_UK on 3/19/08


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The purpose of christianity is not centered in the flood and whether it is global. By taking ultra orthodox extremist positions on the issue and denying the weight of evidence that clearly supports more scientifically based conclusions, all we do is turn away souls from christianity and Christ. I do not believe the flood was global or that the earth is only 6000 years old, but I believe Christ's teachings and atonement have power and purpose.
---Chris on 3/18/08


The truth is something that highly successful BBC employed, illuminati employed atheists are known for NOT telling. The truth is something answered with persecution and isolation. The truth is very expensive to those who pursue it. The truth is the Word of God, costly in terms of this world, costly in terms of God's sacrifice, but cheap compared to what we deserve. The truth is still made available to us even by the Illuminati who seem to delight in leaving hints about their lies, everywwhere.
---frances008 on 3/18/08


Warwick .. My definition of "truth" as used here would be literal and numerical accuracy.
You have seen enough from all I have said here, to understand that I regard the Buble as Truth, which is another, and far greater thing.
---alan_of_UK on 3/18/08


Frances ... Precisely ... the difference between physical death, and Spiritual Death.
As I indicated in my earlier post, I think it was Death (the important one) that came from the Fall, not the unimportant death
---alan_of_UK on 3/18/08


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Alan I asked you to define truth, as you use it. You say you have already answered the question. I must have missed that! Please pander to us Alan, say it again! I have seen nothing I would take as an answer to my question.

I ask again please give us your definition of the word 'truth.' Why are you so coy Alan?
---Warwick on 3/18/08


1) MikeM -glad you mentioned the Kaibab upwarp, a section of Grand Canyon geology where deep layers of sedimentary rock, (down to Vishnu Schist) are bent 90 degrees without cracking! Conclusion: layers were bent while still wet and pliable-no problem for Biblical flood believer as these layers would have been laid down during the year of Noah's flood, and bent while still wet.
---Warwick on 3/18/08


2) Kaibab cont. But to the long-ages aficionados obviously a Grand problem. Consider: If these rock layers were deposited over a 300 million year time-frame, as they claim, therefore having plenty of time to harden into rock. How did they later bend 90 degrees without cracking ?

BTW Mike you have still to explain how Grand Canyon sediment layers could have been exposed for millions of years without eroding?
---Warwick on 3/18/08


Matthew: You Are Absolutely Right! I believe the Bible account of Genesis and the flood to be literal. So I am willing to forward any plausible theory,[Bible-based] to support my belief. Mike M. believes life evolved over 65 million years, and does the exact same thing as I.. The only difference is, I admit it is a theory, he claims it as fact. I Wasn't There! I also believe that the San Andreas fault happened when the fountains of the deep broke open. In Christ\Ian
---ian8763 on 3/17/08


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Do you people just make this stuff up to fit your beliefs, or what?!
---matthew on 3/15/08


Mike: "Trying to say all strata was laid at once [less than a year] is a denial of reality." Really? How so? How does your Lyellian paradigm explain the massive unconformities [missing millions of years of strata] found in the Grand Canyon?

"Gods time is not my time."

Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
---jerry6593 on 3/15/08


Frances008:: Do you also come from down under,AUS do you know Helen who used to write on these posts you write like her but the theme has changed.but the characteristics remain.Just a stab in the dark.Now no fibs.
---Emcee on 3/15/08


Ian, You have revolutionized the field of plate tectonics! Please present your conclusions to the nearist university, to the geology dept. for review, with your conclusions, all the geology, geography texts will have to be rewriten! I thought I was living on the San Andreas fault, now I dont have to worry about earthquakes, as it dont exist, thank you!
---MikeM on 3/14/08


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The Grand Canyon is a massive rift in the Colorado Plateau that exposes Paleozoic strata. Divergent sciences confirm all of this. The rock layers record much of the early geologic history of the North American continent and the sedimentation is clear, what scientific journal denies the exestence of sedimentation? the Kiabab is a massive history book. Trying to say all strata was laid at once is a denial of reality. Gods time is not my time.
---MikeM on 3/14/08


Lake Bonneville was a plisticine pluvial lake that covered much of North America's Great Basin untill about 16,000 years ago. The dry beds have buried hordes of fresh water fish-once distributed in now small fresh water ponds. This is all consistant with the geologic/ ice age climate timeline of the southwest. The lake rose and fell many times.I have seen the ancient water line.
---MikeM on 3/13/08


Matt: Why do we have the Great Salt Lake and the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah?
---jerry6593 on 3/13/08


To dino's being vege - T-Rex teeth contain chlorphyl internally, only foud in herbavoires.
---dan on 3/13/08


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Part 2: Matthew: just an afterthought, did you know that petrified clams are found in the thousands on top of mountain ranges. I wonder how they got there. In Christ/Ian
---Ian_8763 on 3/12/08


Matthew, there are many mysteries in life, would you like to know the answers to all of them? Are there not some salt lakes like the Dead Sea? Salt may be due to the sediment on the rocks returning to the water. Fresh water lakes come from rainwater. Why are Australian animals different? Clearly there were limited numbers on the Ark and so they could not spread out all over the world.
---frances008 on 3/12/08


Matthew: when the canopy of water around the earth fell[GEN 1:7-8]. The landmasses shrank. That is why there is continental shelves. The weight of the water caused massive earthquakes, and literally created mountain ranges. The oceans became saltier over 3500 years as the tides took salt from the earth. All fish were fresh water, before the flood. Fish in the ocean's adapted to the salt water. I don't know about octopus, but there are many fish that are salt and fresh water. Part one
---ian_8763 on 3/12/08


Warwick ... You clealry have not read, or perhaps do not recall, what I have previously said.
---alan_of_UK on 3/12/08


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Alanof UK, may I step in to offer you some solution. Spiritual death started with Adam. We are now all born DEAD spiritually and need to be spiritually born ('born again') in order to inherit our rights as children of God. That is why when we talk of Spiritual blindness etc. it may well mean people who were at one point born in the spirit, but somewhere along the line they rebelled and were disobedient, usually idol worshipping (which includes being greedy.)
---frances008 on 3/12/08


But Alan how can we know what your personal definition of 'truth' is? You refuse to define what you mean by this word.

This is evasion Alan.
---Warwick on 3/12/08


Matthew, where did the water go post flood? Psalm 104 gives a clue.

As explained before if the earth was a smooth ball, water would be standing about 3 km above the land-world-wide. As we know mountains are still rising today it is a reasonable assumption they were much lower in the past. Therefore there is plenty of water in the oceans to cover the earth.

Also scientists say there is ten times more water in the mineral structure of the earth's mantle than in the oceans. Plenty of water!
---Warwick on 3/12/08


Warwick,

Thinking along other lines...

If Noah's flood actually covered the entire earth, then where did all the water go? And why is ocean water salty, since rain water has no salt? And why don't we have sharks and octopuses in the Great Lakes and other large inland lakes?
---matthew on 3/12/08


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Warwick ... MikeM's comment reminds me that I had said the same about the kind of Death that came at the fall.
I would call it Death as opposed to death, but you probably won't understand that any more than you understand the difference between Truth and truth.
---alan_of_UK on 3/12/08


We have numereous examples from recent history of large gourges being created in a matter of hours from dams bursting from heavy rainfall. With much debries from the flood it is highly likely that natural damming occurred and then broke creating many of the massive canyons known today.
---dan on 3/12/08


Alan what I said is just a reasonable flow-on from what you wrote. Read my answer again. I sometimes feel you don't carefully read what people have written. Maybe that's why you don't give answers.

How about answering my question about your definition of 'truth?'

How about answering Phil's question about the flood: global or local? Surely you cannot maintain any credibility while failing to answer questions?
---Warwick on 3/11/08


Dinosaurs were invented about 150 years ago proving that all those who believe in them are just suckers. There's one born every minute. Can't you see that all the same Freemasons and Jesuits are involved? Yes, one or two others who are in it for the money, I don't doubt that for a second. It is basically to try and disprove the Bible.
---frances008 on 3/11/08


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MikeM rather than getting worried about spiders why don't you answer my question about the Grand Canyon layers?
---Warwick on 3/11/08


MikeM bias aside what evidence do you have that dinosaurs were not created vegetarian, as were all creatures as per the Bible, the book you say you follow?

You constantly fall for the error of presumption imagining, without Biblical of scientific support, that things are the same today as there were at creation.

If the meaning of death was spiritual alone, then why did Jesus 'the last Adam' have to die physically?
---Warwick on 3/11/08


If no death before Adam, then all dinosaurs were veggitarians, and spiders spun webs for fun! If nothing else, this thread does offer chuckles.

I suggest spiritual death was the meaning
---MikeM on 3/11/08


Warwick ... you say to me "The Gospel writers say sin and death originate with Adam's sin. You say no!"
Please remimd me.
---alan_of_UK on 3/11/08


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Mike my Grand Canyon comments are mirrored in peer reviewed journals-reasonable conclusion from evidence,which I've seen.

Please explain how vast areas of sediment could remain uneroded over millions of years?

Compare the level boundaries between the layers with the top layer which is well eroded, being left exposed since formation. The explanation is that each layer was rapidly deposited with another following quickly.

Fits with Noah's flood but not millions of years.
---Warwick on 3/11/08


Warwick "Alan-144hrs or 10 billion years makes no difference to God being Creator?"
No it does not.
---alan_of_UK on 3/11/08


1) Alan-144hrs or 10 billion years makes no difference to God being Creator? You show precious little knowledge of Scripture.

The Gospel is predicated upon the historicity of Genesis. If things didn't happen as written then Jesus didn't know this, and disagreed, coming on a false pretense. He said if you don't believe me about earthly things how can you believe me when I speak of heavenly things? How indeed?
---Warwick on 3/11/08


2) The Gospel writers say sin and death originate with Adam's sin. You say no! If creation was over billions of years then creatures must have died so people are right in assuming the fossil record shows these eons of death disease, and struggle which includes humans. Your anti-Biblical scenario has death disease and struggle always there, but God, when He finished creating, said this was 'very good.' A monster god.

Your view opposes Scripture, contradicts Jesus but you say this doesn't matter!
---Warwick on 3/11/08


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2) The Gospel writers say sin and death originate with Adam's sin. You say no! If creation was over billions of years then creatures must have died so people are right in assuming the fossil record shows these eons of death disease, and struggle which includes humans. Your anti-Biblical scenario has death disease and struggle always there, but God, when He finished creating, said it was 'very good.' A monster god.

Your view opposes Scripture, contradicts Jesus but you say it doesn't matter!
---Warwick on 3/10/08


Mike my Grand Canyon comments are mirrored in peer reviewed journals-reasonable conclusion from the evidence,which I have seen.

Please explain to us how vast areas of sediment could remain knife-edge-level over millions of years without any evidence of erosion. Compare the level boundary between the layers with the top layer which is well eroded, being left exposed since formation. The explanation is that each layer was rapidly deposited with another following quickly.
---Warwick on 3/11/08


Yes Alan you have indeed told us the Bible is true while in the same sentence telling us it is not.

And you refuse to define the word 'true' as you mis-use it. I am always suspicious of the honesty of anyone who will not directly answer straight-forward questions Alan!
---Warwick on 3/11/08


Genesis 1:6-8/and God said, let there be a firmament[sky] in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.7 and God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.8 and God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. Part one
---ian8763 on 3/10/08


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Part 2. Since God's Word is true, then there obviously was a layer of water in the stratosphere. Since it is gone now, obviously, gravity brought it down. Probably at the time of Noah. Since it circled the Earth, the flood must have been global. Love in Christ/Ian
---[ian8763 on 3/10/08


1) Alan- 144hrs or 10 billion years makes no difference to God being Creator? You show precious little knowledge of Scripture.

The Gospel is predicated upon the historicity of Genesis. If things didn't happen as written then Jesus didn't know this, and disagreed, coming on a false pretense. He said if you don't believe me about earthly things how can you believe me when I speak of heavenly things? How indeed?
---Warwick on 3/10/08


Sue, I will get to your question. But first...God is calling attention to His great power in creating and sustaining all things [exactly] the message urgently needed by the world today>>>Evidence of the dinosaur have been found since the flood. Dinosaur footprints have been located in the same Strata with human footprints in Glen Rose, Texas. The book of Job is one of the oldest in the Bible and reflects living conditions in the early centurious after the flood. but they have become extinct since.
---catherine on 3/10/08


Exzucuh ... I I want to call God a liar, I will say it myself.

I do not call God a liar, in fact I have affirmed on maay occasiosn that the Bible is True.
---alan_of_UK on 3/10/08


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I'm really tired, and I tried to read all these posts but they only got me really confused, so this question might sound stupid but I wonder if the time when all dinasours and other animals became extinct could be when the flood happened?
---sue on 3/10/08


One who does not believe one part of Gods word is calling God a liar, and is making the rest none effect also, They are saying God is incapable of bringing his word to his church by discrediting it and saying parts are not true.
All of Gods word is true, it is the reader that lacks in spiritual understanding, The bible in letter Kills those who read it without the Spirit. Just as the flood saved Noah but killed those who did not believe the word of God.
---exzucuh on 3/8/08


2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament, not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
---exzucuh on 3/8/08


So true Dan when people will not believe the Word of God no matter how clear it is.
---Warwick on 3/7/08


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Alan, my apologies as I have been away for a few days. I do appreciate your answer to my query even though it is noncommittal. My previous encounters with those who say they don't know, which makes them of an agnostic mind, means they are not interested and I would conclude that the truth of Scripture is of no account to you. You have my deepest sympathies.
---Phil on 3/7/08


1) Alan, in reality it's God's Word which doesn't convince you, my opinions being irrelevant, born with me, perish with me.

Anyone submitted to Jesus,(having The Holy Spirit) who reads Scripture cover to cover, again and again, will obviously understand better how Scripture interprets Scripture, overruling private musings. In earthly terms I have been married for decades and have gained a deeper understanding of my wife's thoughts and feelings from living in faith with her and listening.
---Warwick on 3/7/08


2)I came to her without prejudice,bringing no concepts of her mind with me. That which I know today developed from intimacy.

Conversely you give every reason to believe you approach God's Word, unwilling to accept the obvious meaning because you read it through worldly thinking.

You accept you have no Biblical basis for your ideas. Doesn't that tell us you are not a man of faith in The God of The Bible, no matter whatever else you say?
---Warwick on 3/7/08


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