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Is Baptism A Work

Ask if I thought baptism was a work? My answer was. If baptism is necessary for salvation it becomes a work. If baptism is a act that follows salvation is not a work.
What is your opinion?

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 ---Mima on 2/22/08
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the act of baptising by a pastor is work..for me to baptise is not baptise means a public announcement of my decision to accept Christ in my does not save you..your faith in God saves thru Jesus be fully submerged under the water as Christ did,leaving my old self behind and come up new, means I am a new person and fully in Christ..
---operator on 5/6/08

Baptism is a Work(act) of Faith(believing),
Showing a Good Conscience towards God.
If your not Baptised with Water, Jesus won't Baptise you W/the Holy Ghost!

I ask you this, WHY did everyone SEEK to be Baptised by John then BY the Followers of Jesus IF it Did'nt seem Necessary?
Their are ALOT of Bible ref: that encourage Baptism, NONE that discourage it!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 4/22/08

"Baptism" did not die on the cross. "Baptism" was not raised from the dead. "Rivers of living water" baptism (having a Godly spirit) assures that we will never thirst anymore (Revelation 7:16).
---greg on 4/7/08

When considering baptism it is interesting to note that all baptisms spoken of in the Bible took place after someone's salvation. Why then do some baptize infants? When we all know that the infant cannot believe. And believe is an essential for salvation.
---Mima on 4/4/08

Steven-rem, I noticed the same thing. Exzuruh put down about five passages with no context for each one. Each passage is talking about something different. Even Luke's parable is not talking to believers since Jesus speaks to the unbelievers, the ungodly in parables. But none of the passages have to do with salvation, but on the anger of God to those who are ungodly and those with distructive heresies even denying the Lord. Without God in their lives.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/08

I know very well you cannot comprehend the gospel, and I cannot make sense out of what you are saying, unless you make sentences that actually say something, I cannot respond.
---exzucuh on 3/24/08

exzucuh, Not sure what your TRYING to say, BUT you are showing your ignorance by MISappropriating and NOT rightly dividing (interpretating) God's HOLY WORD
you will find yourself in Rev.22:18 and God will exact his judgements accordingly.

1st you NEED to know what is Rm.1:16 THEN Acts20:21 who are they to do this command and can YOU meet those requirments. No... you can't, (you don't know who they are Rm.3:9-10) sooo... how do you get there Eph.2:8-9 BY GRACE who's!!!??? not your yours
---steven-rem7000 on 3/24/08

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment,
---exzucuh on 3/22/08

2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly,

We have an example of what will happen to us if we live unGodly.
---exzucuh on 3/22/08

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell, yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Isaiah 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
---exzucuh on 3/22/08

Exzucuh said "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, that we (WE THE SAVED) may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our(THE WE) Saviour, Who will (WHO WILL:BUT DOESN'T have "ALL" men saved and COME too the KNOWLEDGE of TRUTH) have (all men) to be saved (AND CAN'T SAVE ANYBODY),God has sad HE WILL have "ALL" men SAVED AND HE WILL !!Rev.5:9-10 the redeemed world, whomsoever the ALL "R" rightous
---steven-rem7000 on 3/20/08

1 Timothy 2:1-4 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have (all men) to be saved, and to come unto the (knowledge of the truth.)
It is men who remain blind because they choose darkness, by choice they believe false doctrine, and God hides his truth from them, if they repent he will reveal it.
---Exzucuh on 3/20/08

Matt.11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
why would God hide the truth?
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father, neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. picks and chooses
---steven-rem7000 on 3/19/08

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
---exzucuh on 3/19/08

If you are as spiritual as you make out to be you would recognize that the word I give you is spirit and life and not of my own. The Spirit
should know the truth instead of waring against it and bragging of it's spiritual status.
---exzucuh on 3/19/08

Exzuruh, "God does pick who's His word applies to." He is the revealer of His own Word. Without God revealing His Word no one can understand or believe His Word. The sin of Adam and Eve apply's to every descentant of Adam and Eve. You cannot of your own ability just follow Christ. You cannot since you are spiritual dead to all that is of God. You need an awakening, a spiritual rebirth in order to be Spiritually alive. And that it the work of the Holy Spirit through God's Word.
---Mark_V. on 3/19/08

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God does not pick and choose who his word applies to. The Sin of Adam and the curse had nothing to do with me. But that same word applies to me and that curse if, I do not obey him to do what he said, the works of Adam made men sinners the works of Christ freed men from sin. But you are not free unless you do the works, God has ordained the works of Faith, not dead works of Judaism but
but the ordained works of believing on Jesus and partaking in his works by Baptism.
---exzucuh on 3/18/08

The works of sin by Adam condemned the whole
world to death and hell, God ordained the works of animal sacrifice to save men until the day Jesus could do the real works, even though the blood of Animals could save none of them, it was still required of them for their salvation, as proof they believed God.
If they refused or did sacrifice to other gods they were condemned.
---exzucuh on 3/18/08

Jesus Christ taught Faith by works, If it was not the case you would have to live by the works of Judaism and it's traditions. But the Law has been changed it is not a Law of Judaism but a new Law, the Law of Faith, the Law of the Spirit, the Law of liberty, and the Man that does this Law according to James will be blessed, Repent-Be Baptized- Receive the Holy Spirit- live and walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
---exzucuh on 3/18/08

Yes. Baptism is not a Play, therefore it must be a Work.
---Eloy on 3/17/08

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Baptisim is as trey said, "is a picture of his death, burial, and resurrection." and I say MUCH more. If one is baptized in the name of the Father,Son,Holy Spirit that one being baptized better know the eternal covenant between them and the offices the GodHead holds and their duties. Otherwise as most professing christian? it is a requirement to join a church typically synagouges of satan.IT'S a command "believe and be baptisted" 1st beleieve, 2nd be baptized
---steven-rem7000 on 3/17/08

Matthew 16:27 is addressing the diciples. In that there is a coming of time of rewards in the future for believers (1 Cor. 4:5, 2 Cor. 5:8-10, Rev. 22:12). Matthew 23:3-39 concerns the Pharisees and scribes, in binding heavy burdens of works to others and they never did any of what they taught. Pretty simple passages. Because God writes all the "Woe to you" so that we can see and understand why He said what He said to them, but you need a eye to see and an ear to hear the word of the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 3/16/08

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

Do the above you get the Holy Spirit

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The witness of the Holy Spirit is power it is signs and wonders it is a life serving God by obedience. It is not an excuse doctrine to cover up why you have no power to live for God.
---exzucuh on 3/14/08

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.

How will Jesus know the Difference in who believed and who did not? He will know by works of Faith, those who obey and are baptized are synonymous with him in death, burial and resurrection. That is why he said you have to lose your life to save it. You willingly lay down your life through baptism,
And are made a partaker of his works by your faith to be obedient to his Gospel.
---exzucuh on 3/14/08

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Hi Duane,

I agree. Baptism should be done in obedience to God as a result of our faith. The Apostle James put it this way:

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

Baptism is a good work. It is a show of our faith in Christ, and is a picture of his death, burial, and resurrection.
---trey on 3/14/08

As you noted, we see it is not essential to our eternal salvation (example: the theif on the cross), but we are commanded to be baptized (Acts 10:48), to take up our cross daily and follow Christ (Luke 9:23).

Lord bless you,
---trey on 3/14/08

You say the thief wasn't baptized your taking a lot for granted, he knew who Jesus was and that tells me according to scripture that he had heard preaching and was baptized, in that day there was very few people who had not been baptized because of the baptizing of John and Jesus's disciples
---exzucuh on 3/13/08

Works that are just say, thats the doctrine of the pharisee, they had the same kind of faith you do.
when Jesus returns will he find faith in the earth? Not if every one follows your belief.
---exzucuh on 3/12/08

Tag- I'm it, Yes Ok if you really look closely at what I believe and do because I believe you'll find something to eat.

In that by my FAITH I am justified, you should realize we actually believe the same thing, only a Holy Spirit is multiplying my effort.
---Pharisee on 3/13/08

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Circumsicion=Cerimonial Law.
Their done when their 7 days old, that's Hardly a Work of Faith, Would'nt you say?Baptisim is for people who can make a Choice & Believe.
Acts 8:36-37 What's stopping me from being Baptised, IF you Believe with ALL your Heart.Jesus has already been Killed & Philip(the Lords Desciple)is Baptising People,MUST BE IMPORTANT,YOU THINK?
Your NOT the Thief of the Cross who had no chance to do this!
So, I hope that's not going to be your Excuse to God?
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 3/13/08

Of course baptism is a work just as circumcision was a work (Rom 4:2).

We are saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:8).

Baptism is a good and holy work, but it is not a requirement for salvation. No where in the scriptures do we read where the thief on the cross received baptism, yet we know he was saved. (Some may never be able to receive baptism due to a physical condition, or their location on the planet, yet this doesn't stop our God from saving them eternally.)
---trey on 3/12/08

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come
in the glory of his Father with his angels,
and then he shall reward every man according
to his works.

Matthew 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do, but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Works that are just say, thats the doctrine of the pharisee, they had the same kind of faith you do.
when Jesus returns will he find faith in the earth? Not if every one follows your belief.
---exzucuh on 3/12/08

Abraham believing what God said,took Issac to sacrifice/kill him, This was a Work of Faith.
When i came to the Lord(12),I was more like the Eunach, WHERE'S the water!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 3/12/08

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What exactly does 'good works' mean? Because if it is wanting to do good things, well, of course a Christain is going to want to do 'good works'. How can you love God and not want to? Common sense.
---sue on 3/11/08

but you have to do the works of repentance...

Fundamental doctrinal error, there are no "works of repentance" because it is Jesus who sets us free from inclination as we abide in him, little to repent of, all things new.

GOD GIVES US WORKS OF GRACE, appointed in Christ from the foundation of the world, we are doing things that transcend eternity bringing Christ physically manifested in the world for everyone to behold...HIS WORKS save us and NOTHING else.
---Pharisee on 3/11/08

For anyone to call the privilege of coming to the throne of grace "a work of repentance" is for truly have lost all gratitude for their redemption.

And then you want to tell everyone how religious to be, and always according to the fear you have for your own soul, that's a sham of a gospel and no gospel at all.

Freedom, redemption, and new life are in Jesus Christ, and his Spirit is not one of fear.
---Pharisee on 3/11/08

Do you know what's astonishing to me?

People come on here talking about salvation contending for what they believe is right and true and end up taking on this self righteous, contentious, divisive spirit.

I guess that's the will of the Father, that's what JESUS outlined for works, that they be "the will of the Father" and exucah has cornered the market, he's got all the works and no one else can have them
---Pharisee on 3/11/08

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When Jesus asks you what you did with the salvation he gave you and you say nothing...
---exzucuh on 2/27/08

Although you didn't address me personally on this, YOU WERE writing in response to me, it's not works that save it's the works that Jesus said are "the will of the Father."

Those works are works of love to God and our neighbor.

Somehow YOU are qualified to tell me if I do these works or not? Don't you smell what you've stepped in?
---Pharisee on 3/11/08

Your problem is you do not know God's word,
If do not know his word you do not know him.
It is his word I give you that you hate, and
if you hate his word you hate God, when you truly repent you will know him but you have to do the works of repentance, that is laying down your false Ideas for the truth, if you don't they will eat you up like cancer.
---exzucuh on 3/10/08

Exz, it was their lack of works that gave evidence they were not saved. If they had been saved by grace, they would have done them, not out of necessity to be saved, but out of their love for Christ. For we were chosen unto good works. If you think your works are worth something then your works are something to boast about, comparing your works with someone else's. If you think God didn't know what He was doing when He saved you, then you don't know God.
---Mark_V. on 3/10/08

You will be judged by every idle word that comes out of your mouth. Because you say it is Nothing more or nothing less that is what it shall be to you. The same as the man that hid his talent in the Ground,Luke 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant.
---exzucuh on 3/10/08

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Catherine, Ashley I thank you for the support of the Gospel, And Jesus also thanks you I'm sure. The only hope for the church is to turn from the doctrine of Antichrist to the Doctrine of Christ.
---exzucuh on 3/8/08

Every one loves to quote this scripture

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

But who quotes this one only ten scriptures down the page.

Bible Verse: John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life, but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.
---exzucuh on 3/8/08

Baptism is nothing more and nothing less than our identification with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. We go down into the water showing our death and burial in Him and we come up out of the water in newness of life thru Him.
---Debbie_Jo on 3/7/08

ashley>>This is the reason or one reason why this world is in such a MESS. Believers believes all they have to do when they get saved is to sit in church every Sunday morning keeping those pews hot, go home have thier nice Sunday dinner with their loving families. Come Monday morning these people are doing nothing. They have done their duty for God. And really believe that they will go to heaven. Don't count the family farm on it. I am warning all of you. Thus saith the Lord thy God.
---catherine on 3/7/08

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Im so amazed at this generation of "believers" that believe you dont have to do ANYTHING to get to heaven, because youre saved by grace and not by works... If you would read on a little more you would realize that it says we are saved UNTO good works. "christians" seem to justify their faith more now by "i believe" than "the bible says"... it makes me nauseated.
---ashley on 3/6/08

You say I am saying it is a Job, salvation is by
faith but faith is not just saying you are
saved. That is like people who confess Gods
word like it is some kind of magic formula. Gods word is true but all of his word must be taken into consideration. What Jesus did is
salvation but it is not salvation to those who do not believe it is damnation, the water that saved Noah killed those who did not obey
the word he Preached.
---exzucuh on 3/1/08

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It was their lack of works that Jesus saw that brought his Judgment and he called it
works of iniqity. He explained to them the works they had not done.
---exzucuh on 3/1/08

I can give you example after example that Jesus
out of his own mouth taught that he would come in a day when they thought not and cast them into darkness because of their works. He says he will judge according to the works done in the body. You cannot hide behind the blood doing works of iniquity, that is called walking on the blood and the wrath of God will come on the children of disobedience.
---exzucuh on 3/1/08

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Another thing most people think repentance is saying you are sorry it is not. Repentance is changing your mind about what you believe turning from sin and doing everything in your power to right wrongs in your life, in the process God will help you by his Spirit and empower you to be a witness with your life.
---exzucuh on 3/1/08

All I'm trying to convey is if you are going to point the way down make some good use of it to preach the way up too.

I had a chance to talk to someone I hadn't seen for a long time, and I really put the conviction of Hell on him, but he took of before I could tell him the rest...will it be enough?

God alone knows this, so what else can I do, that's how it left me feeling. Looking back I can see that I could've paralleled Heaven and Hell a little more to help him find himself in the middle.
---Pharisee on 2/28/08

I'm not trying to argue with you, I mostly agree with everything you say, but it seems like you are thinking your salvation is a job rather than just the new exciting powerful way Jesus teaches you to be.

Your message (much needed) might be better received if you talk more of the empowerment and freedom from sin through life in the Spirit and try to motivate lazy Christians from their distractions of darkness.

The carnal life is a drag all by itself when applied to time it's reality -Hell.
---Pharisee on 2/28/08

Jesus died for the sin all men, to free men from the hold of sin in life and the grave.
He's either a good enough sacrifice to cover every sin but one as he said or he isn't.

How much faith is enough to save you? How many dead works does it take to secure the destruction of faith that quickens a soul with the shout of the arch angel?

These are things man cannot measure and so God Commands- measure your love.
That's the gospel of his grace.
---Pharisee on 2/28/08

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Would keep a job if you did absolutely nothing, you just sucked them dry
and would not obey rules, Paul said if you don't work you don't eat. Jesus said to him that endures gets a reward that requires works there is no enduring nothing. You are saved by the blood and the word of your testimony, a testimony of a life lived for Christ by the works of Faith, When Jesus asks you what you did with the salvation he gave you and you say nothing you will be like the man that hid his talent in the ground
---exzucuh on 2/27/08

You will be like the foolish virgins that were to lazy to get oil for their lamps, The wise
virgins kept their lamp full of oil and that requires works by faith, a lamp does not fill itself. The foolish virgins were lazy and the door was shut on them.
---exzucuh on 2/27/08

Luke 19:22-23 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

It was his lack of obedience to do something
with what he was given that sent him to hell.
Faith without works.
---exzucuh on 2/27/08

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

You do nothing you get nothing. When the Son of Man returns will he find Faith in the Earth. How will he know there is Faith? he will see the works that are done, no works no faith. O, faithless and perverse generation.
---exzucuh on 2/27/08

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Don't start beating the works drum asking everybody to dance for you.

The simple fact is this- ANYONE who truly believes the message of God and has received his spirit will feel like a man in a dark dungeon if he can't talk to someone about Jesus, or hear the message of the gospel.

Those who walk away from God inwardly, I can't tell you be comfortable, I wouldn't be. Spiraling in sin days blurring together, you may even blaspheme the Holy Spirit and not realize. Be vigilant
---Pharisee on 2/27/08

Baptism is not a work its a worship and a confession to the world that you believe that Jesus is the son of God. Pertaking of his body and drinking of his blood is symbolic of us retelling his story as a testimony to our belief.
---Gary on 2/27/08


Like I said before Judaism the works of the law
is what Paul was referring to not the works of faith by obedience.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
---exzucuh on 2/26/08

Hebrews 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
They did not obey and do the works of God and they did not enter his rest.

Hebrews 3:18-19 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
their works revealed their unbelief.
If you do not obey the Gospel to do as Jesus said you will not enter his kingdom.
---exzucuh on 2/26/08

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Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

The blind lead the blind and say follow me we
do nothing for Jesus the ditch is our home.
---exzucuh on 2/26/08

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

What? was this Jesus telling a man to do works before he could follow him? surely
they wrote this down wrong.
---exzucuh on 2/26/08

Luke 19:8-9 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord, Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor, and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

I guess you have a really good explanation why Jesus associated salvation with the good works that he saw this man do.
---exzucuh on 2/26/08

Works is doing the word of God. The harvest is plenty, but the workers are few. A farmer doesn't plant crops and let the crops harvest themselves. It takes work.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Works in the Bible comes after you are saved. It's doing the word of God. It's planting and nurturing what you have planted. Saved comes first and then works, NOT works come first and then saved.
---Steveng on 2/26/08

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Cindy, good verse...thank you I change my mind.... baptisium is by faith and is a work... I REPENT!
---Linda3939 on 2/26/08

Anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ as being required for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add ANYTHING to the Gospel is to say that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say that we must be baptized in order to be saved is to say that we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ's death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation, but cannot be a requirement for salvation.
---Court7646 on 2/26/08

Does our "opinion" really matter? or does it matter what the bible tells us? Are you talking about Water Baptism or Holy Spirit Baptism as in the book of Acts? Both are acts of obedience, not works. They are a package deal for salvation. Meaning, after you are saved, you get water baptized and Holy Ghost Baptized. They are acts of obedience and you really do want the Holy Spirit Baptism as they got in Acts Chapter two.
---Donna on 2/26/08

Jesus' baptism was the work of baptism for all, part of the perfect life nailed to the cross.

to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Romans 4:4-7
---Pharisee on 2/26/08

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Faith without works is dead.....

Good works, manipulated in this way is the earmark of a cult.
---Cindy on 2/26/08

There is only one kind of work, that is the works of faith. Anything not of faith is sin.
What are the works we must do? Believe on HIM who HE has sent.
---duane on 2/26/08

We are saved By the works of Christ that is
True. But his works will not save unless the
person needing salvation obeys the Gospel. according to your foolishness, you believe everyone is just saved, What is the point of preaching or baptizing or anything, lets all just quit and do nothing were saved anyway
Why endure to the end or suffer tribulation or persecution, lets throw our cross down and join the devil. He's probably just as saved as anybody that believes what I'm saying.
---exzucuh on 2/25/08

We are saved By the works of Christ that is
True. But his works will not save unless the
person needing salvation obeys the Gospel. according to your foolishness, you believe everyone is just saved, What is the point of preaching or baptizing or anything, lets all just quit and do nothing were saved anyway
Why endure to the end or suffer tribulation or persecution, lets throw our cross down and join the devil. He's probably just as saved as anybody that believes what I'm saying.
---exzucuh on 2/25/08

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.tommy3007, I am wholly correct, but you will believe whatever you desire.
---Eloy on 2/25/08

"Faith WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD." Jesus says, not the believer, BUT THE DOER IS SAVED. For even Satan and the devils are believers, but they are NOT DOERS, and therefore are condemned. Just as every tree which bears No fruit is gather and thrown into the fire.
---Eloy on 2/25/08

.mima, II Tm.1:6-2:28 does not put down "works" for God, because God Commands "works" II Tm.2:15-21, but speaks of enduring persecution. Paul persecuted the Church while wrongly believing that he was following God's Law. In this verse Paul is not putting down the law, but he is saying, inspite of our deeds, God calls and saves who he chooses to accomplish his own will. God called Paul out from being a proud pharisee, in order to witness to other pharisees for Christ.
---Eloy on 2/25/08

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