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How To Become Born Again

What constitutes one being born again? Is it saying the sinners prayer? Where in the bible is the sinners prayer? Or would it be when you receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit so that you can understand spiritual concepts/revelations?

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Alan, first of all the Bible describes all of us as being lost. On account of Adam and not God. He allowed us to be born under Adam. It describes us separated from God. So how could God forgive our sins and also see that justice was carried out? God coud not simply forgive us and ignore the fact that we had broken His holy law, which carries a death penalty. Who would pay for our crime against God? In His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, the Father found the One whose death would fully satisfy the demands of justice, thereby enabling Him to forgive our sins. The Cross of Christ vindicates God. It shows God to be just, in that He did what His own law demanded.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/08

Alan, you don't have to believe in Predestination to be saved. What you need is the power of God to come to you and awaken your dead spirit. When He does, you will have faith in Jesus Christ death on the cross and His resurrection for your salvation. A trust that He is God and Ruler of the Universe. That the Father send the Son to die for your sins and that He is seated at the right hand of the Father. That the Holy Spirit lives in your heart and that He is the giver of life. When you believe this facts, you will know God and won't question why something is not to your liking. You will not understand all of His works in everyday life, but you will trust that He is righteous and never wrong.
---Mark_V. on 6/18/08

Job 19:25-27

25For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another, though my reins be consumed within me.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/08

Rhonda, the first man Adam was a life giving SOUL, the Last man Adam a life giving Spirit.

Angels are Spirits without Souls. We are not angels, but living souls.

12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/08


Romans 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/08

Ephesians 1:13-15 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14Which is the earnest/deposit of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/08

The day we make Jesus our Lord, our spirit is born-again/from above.(2Corinthians 5:17)
We also have the Holy Spirit in our born-again spirit.

The bible says, "for as many as are led by the Spirit of God they are the sons of God."(Romans 8:14)

We are born into the family of God, SPIRITUALLY, the day we make Jesus our Lord.(Hebrews 12:9)

In the rapture we will get a new body, physically.(1Corinthians 15:52-54)
---Rickey on 6/16/08

All these verses tell us we INHERIT inheritiance is a future event as spelled out in the resurrection on the last day Matthew 5:5, 19:29, Col 3:24, Heb 1:13,14, 6:12, 9:15, 1Pet 1:4, 3:9, Rev 21:7
---Rhonda on 6/15/08

Flesh and blood are not born again ...Christians are born again when Christ RETURNS ....born to a spirit life

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

KEY WORD BEGOTTEN hasnt happened yet ....those who believe they have been born again in the flesh have been DUPED
---Rhonda on 6/15/08

to believe one is "born again today" (because they called on Christ) is also to believe one has no need for resurrection to eternal life

it is through a Christians HOPE in Christ(1Corin 15:12-19)

Christ was the first to be resurrected ...HE is the firstfruit of many to be resurrected....THEN those who are Christs at His Coming (THE LAST DAY) (1Corin 15:20-28)
---Rhonda on 6/15/08

It is through the resurrection we are born again to a spirit life (this is WHY it is a mystery to most) we shall be changed put on immortality (1Corin 15:50-58) ...and why many cannot comprehend, ignore, or are blinded to the words here in John 5:28,29

Christ taught Christians that flesh and blood DO NOT inherit the Kingdom of God (1Corin 15:50) ...born of flesh is flesh, born of spirit is spirit (John 3:6-8)
---Rhonda on 6/15/08

We are CHANGED from flesh and blood to spirit on THE LAST DAY .The Kingdom is inherited on THE LAST DAY not today (John 6:39, 40, 44, 54)

...salvation is a PROMISE to INHERIT does not inherit something instantaneously it is a FUTURE event

...remember it is appointed once for all to die (Heb 9:27) and through death we receive our promise of salvation ...when Christ returns to conquer sin and death
---Rhonda on 6/15/08

2 Thessalonians 1:9-11

9Who(un-belivers) shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power,

10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

11Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
---kathr4453 on 6/14/08

20For our conversation is in heaven, from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21 Who shall change our vile body,that it may be fashioned like unto His (Jesus) is glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Jesus is not a Spirit, but a resurrected Body NOW sitting at the right Hand of the Father.. Stephen saw Him.

When Jesus returns to earth...He will be SEEN, as will we.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/08

Christians are Born Again TODAY. The Spirit of the Life of Christ has set us(Born Again Christians) free from the law of sin and DEATH.

The Spirit of the life of Christ is eternal life IN YOU NOW...sealed until the day of redemption. Those SEALED are not extinquished snuffed out, and then re-created at the resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/08

Rhonda, If I may again point out what you are stating is not in scripture. The Bible says we don't know what we will be, but we know we will be like Him...for we shall see him as He is.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/08

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DDM the verse where you get about the "Souls" is talking about (Rev.6:9) the ones who have been sealed by God, who are perfect and righteous, (the 144,000) who give up their lives as Jesus did to save those people from every religion and every race and nation during the time of trouble. Being "under the altar" means they are perfect as was the lamb. (This all has not happend yet.) So, since you didn't know this, you must not be born again.
---james on 6/14/08

frances008, what you wrote is really scarry. You said that it is God's choice, not ours? You also said Jesus will come to someone now too? If this was true, and it isn't, then Jesus would be a liar because He said He would not come back or appear to anyone until the coming like a thief. That is why He gave us the Holy Spirit and SHE will lead us into ALL truth.
---james on 6/13/08

Jesus ate and told the D's to handle him that He was not a Spirit, but Flesh.
We will have a body as his, one that can travel the vast spaces of the Universes.
We won't have wings and we won't live in Heaven forever,
Thats not Gods plan.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 6/14/08

Therefore, what I have learned is that no one has yet been actually born again by the Holy Spirit, but this will happen to the few in Rev.3:4 (which is then called Philadelphia) The reason I say this is because one must be fully righteous for the Holy Spirit will not share anyone who is a liar, or even one who believes a lie. Does not his mean he must know the real truth first? That is what I am, a real truth seeker.
---james on 6/14/08

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...At the resurrection it will be a spiritual rebirth when Christians are born again to spirit and live as spirit for eternity ...

Christ was not spirit again until God resurrected Him to heaven ...just like Christ was resurrected from the dead to a divine spirit being so shall all Christians today who are the first fruits of Gods Kingdom on Earth
---Rhonda on 6/13/08

One cannot be "born again" as flesh and blood ...salvation is a promise Christians are begotten sons of God ...we are heirs ...heirs inherit something in the future not immediately

...we are born of flesh and remain flesh until the resurrection when those who received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will be resurrected to spirit John 3:68, 3:10-12....
---Rhonda on 6/13/08

DDM_Has the Spirit told you why Jesus has not come yet? I am serious!
---james on 6/11/08

I did'nt need the Spirit on this one, God explains it to the Souls that ask him, How much Longer must we wait?

All things must be fulfilled as it's written,
THEN the End will come!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 6/13/08

James, you do not have the Holy Spirit and are in no position to receive Him. If you had a mentor, someone who could encourage you in the ways of Christianity, then you would be like someone who (to use this analogy again) goes to the bus stop in order to get the bus, instead of someone who wonders why the bus does not come and knock at their door. Jesus will come at a time God has decided and the longer he waits is because he wishes to spread the gospel to every living person on the globe.
---frances008 on 6/12/08

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If Jesus said He gave us the Holy Spirit, then why would I want a mentor? Maybe I am taking what Jesus wrote too seriously. In my mind, being born is a very important experance. To be born of God (Holy Spirit) would then mean your brother is Jesus and you should be able to do what Jesus did. Look, I am a simple person, what Jesus said I take to be very serious. Why wouldn't you actually KNOW you were God's child?
---james on 6/11/08

DDM, you have written many a great reply, but now if think you are making fun of me. All I asked if you had been born again. Maybe it is the defination that I am haveing a hard time with. If you have been born again, then you must be able to see the Kingdom of Heaven. Can you tell all of us who these people are right now? Has the Spirit told you why Jesus has not come yet? I am serious!
---james on 6/11/08

James, being a born again Christian has nothing to do with walking through walls, which you seem to think to be a necessary step in the Christian walk. You are missing it entirely. Get yourself under some mentor. There are great Christians on the internet. There is audiosermons which are downloadable for free. There is no excuse for ignorance.
---frances008 on 6/11/08

james _You prove time and time again that the Spirit must not be in you.
By your reply you clearly cannot Decern & Divide the words that are of the Flesh and those of the Spirit.
My Prayers are still with you...
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 6/11/08

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Emcee, I looked up a Catholic retreat to go on when I go to the UK, and the two priests running it were psycho....somethings. You know, trained in mind control. I won't have anything to do with Jesuits or the Society of Jesus which is a military organization designed to destroy all Christianity. It was not banned from 83 countries for being nice to the poor.
---frances008 on 6/11/08

James, think of one of those creatures in the sea that live in shells. That is what the spirit is, a living thing inside a shell. The body is the shell. Only when we no longer need our worn out shell, when that body dies, will our spirit be freed from it and we won't spend our time haunting around our former lodging place, we will eventually go to God for judgement. Some talk of soul sleep until that day. I am not sure. Eccles 12 (?) says that the spirit returns to God who made it, immediately(?)
---frances008 on 6/11/08

DDM, Have you been born again? If one is born of the Spirit would not they then be a spiritual being and would be able to walk through walls and shine as stars per Daniel 12?
---james on 6/11/08

You know what, when you closely identify what's going on with satan, you risk falling a victim, becoming a perpetual victim of satan.

We are to give him no place. None. Zip. Nadda.
---lisa on 6/11/08

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My pastor, a strong Christian man, says we are to give no place to the devil.

When we give him place, "the devil's after me today, he's really whipping a fit upside my head, he's this....he's that....he hates're giving him place, and he will take whatever opening he can find.
---lisa on 6/11/08

It is written...
Get behind me, satan.

That's about enough for him. Christians give him too much credit and too much rope, and he'll use it. He and his demons sit in the corner and laugh, every time one of us gives him too much credit for everything.

Along with opening a door for more demonic activity to come into your life, giving the devil place invites him in for more havoc everywhere you look.
---lisa on 6/11/08

In a strange way, it's attracts all of the wrong kinds of attention, like a magnet.
By stating what may be the obvious, as satan hates everything about Christianity, those that closely identify with him become some of the most confused, distracted and unstable Christians that we see in churches.
The devil is constantly after them, he's everywhere they look, and eventually they become his victim.
---lisa on 6/11/08

On topic, I believe in the sinner's prayer.
Scriptural references have already been given and take the quiz.
It is those that have never said the sinner's prayer that cannot remember when they were actually saved. They assume they are because they follow eternal security, predestination, OSAS, Calvinism of every from and once chosen and always frozen.

I believe in the sinner's prayer.
---lisa on 6/11/08

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Once you've become born again, don't identify yourself with the devil.
Give him no place in your life.

It is written...
Get behind me, enough.
---lisa on 6/11/08

Frances008:You are angry and talk double.If you hate Satan, then why do you run from Jesus's church-Matt16,17-19, giving clues to follow, denouncing the society of Jesus (Jesuits)"Those who are Not with me are against me"If the devil hates you then WHY is he is enslaving you.I bear you no ill will Frances but I feel you need a friend.
PS I am still intrigued.
---Emcee on 6/11/08

From the looks of frances008 replies,
she could use some of our prayers, I've been trying, not even fasting is working on this one!

Being Born Again is exacly what it sounds like, "A New Start" I stopped Fornicating, Stealing, Hating, ect. ect. ect.
For you golfers it's a "Mulligan", Another try!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 6/11/08

I hate Satan, and Satan hates me and is accusing me. My life is hidden with Christ. I am not the person defined by Emcee, because Emcee is not God. God said a Word and the whole world came about through that Word. Emcee, may the Lord rebuke you for your words spoken against me. May the Lord do it kindly, as you are a senior citizen. And may the Lord save you, because at the moment you are brainwashed as I was. I pray for you and all Catholics.
---frances008 on 6/11/08

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Mark V ... I was actually recording your theology.
Can you explain the purpose of most of humanity being made purely to be thrown into Hell, with no opportunity for salvation?
Is it as an example to others? If so, why is the example needed?
And do we have to beleive yuor predestination theology in order to be saved? If we misunderstand the process, and think we made a choice, does that mean we can't be saved?
---alan_of_UK on 6/11/08

Frances008:Where were you born?I dont believe the Catholic church, rejected you. Not their way .You made a choice based on some disappointment.So why did you run away to Japan pan pan?explaination for depression. 2Female singer who was Jesuit?It is a mans ORDER SJ.3 The money thing, world wide economic chaser.4 some times we are born into adversity which gives us drive to change ourselves.5.9/11 could have been with some attachment.more would help me join the dots to creatwe a picture.
---Emcee on 6/10/08

Alan, your last reply was perfect, "Either God will save you or He will not" You got it right. And when He does, you will thank Him for having mercy on you. If you had mercy on Him, you would not thank Him. That is why everyday I thank God for coming into my heart when I was at my lowest point in life. He, not I, took me by the hand and made a new person out of me. I didn't change my own heart, and I sure didn't know Him. My only hope was for God to seek me (John 6:37,44).
---Mark_V. on 6/10/08

#2. Alan: It is only as a result of God's work in the heart that anyone seeks Him (Ps. 16:8, Matt. 6:33). But if you want to believe that you had mercy on Him, by using your free will, then you don't have to thank Him for anything. You can glory in your glory.
---Mark_V. on 6/10/08

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Ricky, the passage in James 4 you gave, he is talking to believers. Chapter 3 starts with, "My Brethren" he is giving instructions for godly living to those who are believers already. They are for edifying the believers in the faith. They still fail many times. The more the lessons the more they learn how to live their Christians lifes. Of course they have freedom of choice. They are still been judge by God. No where in the passage is God making them do anything.
---Mark_V. on 6/10/08

#2. Rickey: God is not speaking to them, James is. This are instructions for them. To edify them. Become more Christ like.
---Mark_V. on 6/10/08

Nicole, there is a difference between someone who sins, and someone who is enslave to sin. The one enslave cannot of himself escape. He needs someone to release him from his bondage. The bible says he is doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, a child of wrath. When the Spirit brings life to him, he is release from slavery and he is able to now make choices for Christ. He could not before because he was a slave.
---Mark_V. on 6/10/08

I went to a retreat house in the UK, on holiday. Just for a cup of tea. The man was suspicious of me and my companion and yet he was hospitable. So he showed us around the lovely house and allowed us to go around the grounds. He told us that the owners had had three sons, they were Catholic. All three sons were killed in one of the wars. So the Catholic church got this place. Lovely, it was. They always benefit from the death of Catholics.
---frances008 on 6/10/08

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As someone just said somewhere on Christianet. Satan comes to steal kill and destroy. He wants everything that belongs to Christians. He wants their children, their homes, all their private property. Now that Obama looks like the next World President, we can be assured that he is against private property for the people, only for the elite. That is why the Jesuits launched him at their University (the one Clinton attended). Georgetown.
---frances008 on 6/10/08

Emcee, I admit it. I was a good Christian, and the Catholic Church rejected me. First clue. I tried to work in Catholic systems which caused deep depression. Second clue. I escaped to Japan and found it was idol worshipping a female singer who was a Jesuit bent on destroying family life by encouraging all Japanese women to go after money and get a job. Third clue. My family are spiritually blind and dislike the Bible being brought up . Fourth clue. 911 Fifth clue. Gradually I joined the dots.
---frances008 on 6/10/08

Because of my status as a kept person in Japan, I realized that God must be blessing me for some mission. So I began a massive investigation, starting with the assassination of some obscure man in Yugoslavia. I looked up his quotes. That put me onto the Jesuits. All wars are about the Jesuits, they are behind them all. That is sufficient reason for me to hate them with a deep hatred.
---frances008 on 6/10/08

Becoming born again is symbolic of Spirit Baptism into the body of Christ. It is putting off the old man and putting on the new man. That being said, Spirit baptism can only come from beleiving the Gospel of Christ as given in 1 Cor 15.
---Cross-Bearer on 6/10/08

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Frances 008:-Like I said earlier your slip is showing.How can you condemn something you know nothing about.Seek your own heart why you are so Bitter and repulsive to your God.Seek the truth NOT the VENDETTA.Every bitter pill has a source or entrance,its like venom coursing through your veins eg snake bite.You know who the SNAKE is .He is in Genesis 3:1
---Emcee on 6/10/08

Nicole, it is the Catholic Church that has twisted everything in the Bible from Commandment No1 down to No10. In so doing, it has proven to be the City (The Vatican) talked of in Revelations 17 and 18. Paul was trying desperately to limit the damage being done by Nicolaitans, Pharisees, Gnostics etc etc that were popping up all over the place, like the current copies popping up today. The RCC is just a fulfilment of the worst prophecies.
---frances008 on 6/10/08

What does Jesus say about baptism? In Mathew 3:5-6. "no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and Spirit". The water is himself (the living water). The Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
Your three simple steps is "catholicism" and none of what you've mentioned is ever stated in Jesus entire conversation with Nicodemus.
---Ken on 6/9/08

Mark, read James 4:7. It says," Submit YOURSELVES therefore to God. (YOU)Resist the devil, and he will flee from YOU."

No where in that verse is it putting emphasis on God doing something. We have to make the choice to submit to God & we have to resist the devil.

Same thing applies to these blogs. God can tell you not to write on them, but you still have to make the choice to obey Him. Because we have that choice to or not to obey Him as Christians He is limited in ways.
---Rickey on 6/9/08

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MarkV, you know exactly what Rickey is saying. He and I do not agree on HOW Salvation is obtain, but I do agree with him on FREE WILL.
You are not perfect. So, you know that God does not do your every move. You are a slave as long as you CHOOSE to be a slave.

If your theory is correct, then you are Perfect in every actions.
If you are not perfect, then Rickey is right. God does not commit any sins. YOU DO.

God's Grace dwells in you to do His Will. But, U have the power to reject Him.
---Nicole on 6/9/08

One is born again with 3 simple steps:
First Repentance = asking God forgiveness for individual sins and making a decision to live God's way.
Second, become baptised in water by immersion in Jesus name or in the name of the Father Son and Holy spirit, then one will receive holy spirit which makes one a true christian and born again.
St. John 3:5 Acts 2:38 Romans 8:9
---Trisha on 6/9/08

"All of the word is by inspiration of God, whether Jesus was talking or Paul was talking." MarkV
Are you kidding? U can't answer my question,but U avoid the answer with this statement. Inspiration of God? JESUS IS GOD! Are you saying that God's Words are on the same level as Paul?Wake up. This shows that you want to believe as YOU choose to believe. If Jesus states something, and Paul states the same with a twist. TRUST me on this. LISTEN to Jesus before Paul. This isn't hard to determine.
---Nicole on 6/9/08

AlanofUk, to take your metaphor further, how would your favourite aunt feel if you rejected the sweet. Of course someone may have told you that the sweet was poisoned, or that you must not accept sweets (because of your teeth or something). But in God's case the sweet would not harm your teeth. So how would God feel if rejected? Perhaps righteous anger, or perhaps shrugging of the shoulders, or perhaps deep sorrow. So some credit goes to a child who can discern a good gift when he sees it.
---frances008 on 6/8/08

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Of course, we have nothing to be proud of, since God did it all by sending his son Jesus Christ. Then we have the Bible which is the Instruction Book that will save us from the deceptions of the devil. So you are right, we cannot take credit, but God can be angry if we do not accept His Help.
---frances008 on 6/8/08

So God specifically makes some people (*in fact the vast majority of humanity) to be flung inot Hell.
Why ... it seem to be an example to others.
But why do we need an example? Either God will save us or He will not.
---alan_of_UK on 6/8/08

ddmartin, I had been respecting your replys, but with this one you have me puzzled. Jesus in John 17 had not been killed yet. Jesus also said He had become sanctified so that we MAY also become sanctified. Isn't this being born again?
---james on 6/7/08

Rickey, I wish you could listen to yourself. Every answer you give gets worse. Here is what you said, "What I am saying is that for Him (God Almighty) to be Ruler I have to allow Him to be Ruler by submitting to Him" You a creature of clay with more power then the Potter. With the power to make Him Ruler of you. Does it mean He is Ruler of everyone except you? Does He stop been Ruler of all because of you? So He really isn't Ruler of any until people let Him?
---Mark_V. on 6/7/08

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#2. Rickey: That is what scare me some, that so many others believe what you do. God doesn't need your approval to be Ruler of His creation. Every word you say, comes from your heart and from your desires. Your desires are not for the Almighty God, Ruler of the Universe. They are for man. Not one answer you give, gives Him glory. They revolve around you. Those are your desires. I cannot make you change. You asked me if, if God told me to get on the computer and I choose to not listen to Him
---Mark_V. on 6/7/08

#3. Rickey: and I, by using my free will did something else as your point for free will. My answer is, that God does not talk to me in person. He is in me. He is part of my body. He lives in my heart. That is why I am on the computer speaking on His behalf. He motives me, teaches me, guides me, gives me the incentive to learn more about Him. If He was not a part of me, I would be going to the track, drinking with my buddies, or something that didn't include God.
---Mark_V. on 6/7/08

#4. Rickey: If God was not a part of me, I would be fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of my mind. Now we are Christians with desires for God because He is a part of us. The Spirit is always working through us. I pray that I always answer correctly because that is my desire. My will is not free at all, concerning my decisions. I am a slave to Christ. He own's me. He still judges me because of the wrong choices I make.
---Mark_V. on 6/7/08

Alan of UK:: Do not be Puzzled any more!. Read Matt16,24-26The answer lies in self denial and representing the truth.Who is the Giver of the Harvest? Isiah says the lord. Does man live by bread alone?
---Emcee:: on 6/6/08

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Mark, if God told you not to respond to any of the blogs, you could still CHOSE not to obey Him and do it anyway. Yes, God is Sovereign & Supreme, but He cannot stop you from making that decision. Are you a puppet? Daily you chose to follow Jesus, He isn't making you do it. Deuteronomy 30:19 shows the freedom of choice that mankind has.
---Rickey on 6/6/08

Mark, have you ever been constipated? Most people cannot use the toilet because his/her bowels won't move when constipated. In other words, their bowels are not in agreement w/ them.

Same applies to us and God. He wants us to do things, but just because He is sovereign doesn't mean He can override the free-will that He has given us.
Salvation is the prime example. It is up to us to choose to except what God is offering. He cannot force anyone to get saved.
---Rickey on 6/6/08

Alan of UK:: Do not be Puzzled any more!. Read Matt16,24-26The answer lies in self denial and representing the truth.
---Emcee:: on 6/6/08

#3. Alan: in this first part of what God is saying about Pharaoh, imagine that pharaoh had to be where he was by the purposes of God. He could not die. God made it possible for him to be there. And here is the reason, "That I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth. " Is that the God Rickey and others display? And Scripture goes on to say that it was by God's mercy, Therefore He has mercy on whom He will, and whom He wills He hardens."
---Mark_V. on 6/5/08

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#4. Alan: When you hear those words I know you don't agree, and neither do many on line. But Scripture goes on to say to those who don't agree, "You will say to Me then, 'why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will? that is what most say. And He answers, "O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to Him who formed it, Why have you made me like this?
---Mark_V. on 6/5/08

#5. Alan: And God responds, "Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?" God has all the rights in the world to do as He pleases with all of us. No one has power over God. He can make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor. If this is not the Word of God then something is very wrong. Might as well throw the Bible away and just believe what you feel like believing.
---Mark_V. on 6/5/08

Alan, don't be puzzeled, and don't believe Rickey you can make God Ruler if you want, that is so rediculous. And the reason I speak against this theology. You see when a person is lost, and has no connection with God, he is not the employee. And the boss you talk of, is not Sovereign God. The person is clay, the piece of clay that God has moulded the way He wanted. The piece of clay has no power over the Potter. He is formed the way the Potter wants him to be.
---Mark_V. on 6/5/08

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