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Law Keepers Are Guilty

A friend says, all Law keepers are guilty of this." For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." What do you think?

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 ---Mima on 3/7/08
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First one must understand that the Law was given to the nation of Israel not gentiles therefore the law never applied to us non Jews hence Rom 4:16

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith so that it might be according to grace, for the promise to be made sure to all the seed, not only to that which is of the Law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

Second the Law was removed Hence Col 2:14

Col 2:14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone who believes.
---Rodger on 11/8/09


I think your friend is a little mixed up if he/she has a problem with people who try to keep God's laws. God commands us to keep His laws, that's why they are called laws, it would be pretty silly to disregard a command of God. But he/she is right in that we are all guilty, even those who boast in their keeping of the law. We are saved by grace alone, not be keeping the law. Though, we should always strive to keep the law anyway, because it's God's will and He knows best.
---Todd on 5/21/08


Well Jesus kept the Sabbath: The habit of Jesus was to observe the Sabbath as a day of worship in the Synagogues [Luke 4:16], but His failure to comply with the minute restrictions brought conflict. At first, Christians also met on the Sabbath with the Jews in the Synagogues to proclaim Christ [Acts 13:14]. their holy day, the day that belong especially to the Lord, was the first day of the week, the day of resurrection [Rev. 1:10,Matt. 28:1]. They viewed the Sabbath and other matters More>>
---catherine on 5/19/08


More on law keepers>>of the law as a shadow of the reality which had now been revealed [Col. 2:16-23]. And the Sabbath became a symbol of the heavenly rest to come [Heb. 4:1-11]. I especially enjoyed reading the last part, so I will do it once more>>And the Sabbath became a symbol of the heavenly rest to come. The End++
---catherine on 5/19/08


Lee: "Hebr.8:7 For if that 1st covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a 2sd."

If the Jew were suppose to do their job from the beginning, God wouldn't have had to go to the Gentiles to conclude His plan.
---Steveng on 3/30/08




StevenG, that's an excellent point. The covenant changed, but the 10 Commandments didn't change-thank God!

Lee raises a strawman argument in order to jettison the 10 Commandments when no one claims we're under the Ceremonial Laws.
---Geoff on 3/30/08


Lee: "Hebr.8:7 For if that 1st covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a 2sd."

You are taking this verse out of context. To understand what this meant is to read the minor OT prophets.
---Steveng on 3/28/08


Steveng - *The New Covenant is like a mortgage, the terms are different and the laws stay the same.

If the laws stay the same,then why was it necessary for the church to convene the Jerusalem council (Acts15) if everyone had to obey the same laws?

You fail to understand that the terms of the New Covenant are much different than those of the Old Covenant.

Hebr.8:7 For if that 1st covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a 2sd.
---Lee on 3/26/08


Lee: "Not commanded of the church..."

Have you not read that God, and His love and justice, is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? His laws will not pass away until all things are fulfilled? That the seventh day Sabbath was made thousands of years before the Israelites came into existance? That the Jewish people are still God's people? For all this is written in Scripture.

The New Covenant is like a mortgage, the terms are different and the laws stay the same.
---Steveng on 3/26/08


Geoff - Is 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, ...

Yes, the Sabbath being the sign of the covenant God made with Israel (Ex. 31:17) was central to their worship, but is such applicable to the New Covenant of the church as well?

I would say not, as there is nothing in the New Testament that commands the observance of any day.
---Lee on 3/26/08




Geoff - yes you can only declare me guilty of being disobedient to OT laws that are not applicable to the Christian.

What you need is mentors that know the Lord and can direct you into sound doctrine.

2Ti 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
---Lee on 3/26/08


Lee said, "I do believe," quoting Heb 4:3,10 which say nothing of working for ones salvation. Ceasing from your own works is being obedient to what God says and not doing your own thing as Lee is doing in his disobedience

Is 58:13-If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable, and shalt honour Him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words
---Geoff on 3/26/08


Geoff - *So you admit you don't believe in Christ because you refuse to enter His rest

Those who have believed ( & I do believe) enter into that rest of God (Heb.4:3), no longer working for salvation (4:10) but living in faith holding to the promises that those who believe in Him will have eternal life to come. John 3:16

Those still in the arid desert attempt to please God not by faith but by works (e.g. Sabbath keeping) but no one can enter into that rest by works of the law.Ga 3:10
---Lee on 3/26/08


*Why the church didnt fight to keep the 7th day Sabbath? The Roman Pope Constantine who made the change to Sunday,...*

Your problem is that the early church no longer observed the Sabbath by the beginning of the 2d century, long before Constantine or any Roman pope has any power to change anything. Even SDA scholars dispute the EGW version of church history.

You really need better mentors in both Scripture & church history.
---Lee on 3/26/08


Why the church didnt fight to keep the 7th day Sabbath? The Roman Pope Constantine who made the change to Sunday, was the dictator then and noone would ever dare to oppose the pope otherwise his head got chopped off. In God's Word, it says, if you break law in one point, you break the lot. Jesus is the Word, made fleshh v14 ..the whole Word, not just p,art..the OT and NT..remember that Lee.John 14:15 IF U LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.. all of it
---operatora on 3/26/08


Lee, "it is those that believe in Christ who have entered into His rest." So you admit that you don't believe in Christ because you refuse to enter His rest. Heb 4:7 says that's because you have hardened your heart.
---Geoff on 3/25/08


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Samuel - to answer the 1st question, all commandments except the Sabbath were restated in the NT. However since the Sabbath is a distinctive Jewish tenet, it was not imposed on the church.

The 2d question is why the early church did not fight over keeping the Sabbath as they did with circumcision? The simple reason is circumcision was the rite of entrance into the Jewish religion and once accomplished, all other distinctive Jewish OT tenets including the Sabbath, would be applicable - Gal. 5:3
---Lee on 3/25/08


Samuel - Galatians 5:3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

So once a convert submitted to circumcision, he was obligated to observe the whole law including the OT Sabbath.

Effectively physical circumcision made a Gentile into a Jewish convert and thereafter was obligated to observe all laws that were distinctively Jewish.
---Lee on 3/25/08


Geoff - you quote Hebrews 4 out of context in your attempt to nullify what it really states.

It is obvious that you are basically ignorance of the contents of the book of Hebrews & have never picked up a decent commentary on it.

It is those that believe in Christ who have entered into His rest, not those who observed the weekly Sabbath as verse 4:3f makes clear.
---Lee on 3/25/08


Lee, you said "God in Scripture does NOT ask His church to observe a particular day of the week..." In addition to the NT scripture SeventhSeal shared, consider:

For He spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all His works-Heb 4:4...

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief-v11 (see also v1).

To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts-v7.
---Geoff on 3/25/08


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Lee: NEW TESTAMENT Rev14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the Commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

NEW TESTAMENT: John1:3 "All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made."

He created the Commandments that you deny.

NEW TESTAMENT: John14:15 "If ye love Me, keep My Commandments."

Suppose you will continue to deny Him.
---SeventhSeal on 3/25/08


GOD does not mention the second commandment either. But most protestants do keep that one. Do you believe that until each of the Ten Commandments were restated in the New Testament that it was okay to break them since they were not in effect yet?

Why did the Early church fight over circumsion but not over which day to keep Holy? Should not the Bible record this discussion?
---Samuel on 3/25/08


dan - *you seem to believe that a God would not ask someone to do something that made no sense to them

Quite the contrary as God may ask a particular person to do something that does not make any sense as He has some purpose in doing it. But clearly God in Scripture does NOT ask His church to observe a particular day of the week for any purpose. And that much is clear from the New Covenant as well as from the saints of His church.
---Lee on 3/25/08


Lee the problem that I have with most of your argument is that you seem to believe that a God would not ask someone to do something that made no sense to them. That it must have a logical reason. Sabbath to you does not fit. Perhaps that is exactly what God wanted. Just a test to see how much one trusts Him.
---dan on 3/25/08


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Lee: "I totally believe that if someone can prove what I believe to be incorrect from Scripture alone (other than from the writings of Ellen White), I would be very grateful" If you could remove your self-imposed blinders temporarily, you would see that you have been shown an abundance of scriptures over the years that refute your man-made beliefs. Further, the only times Ellen White's quotes have been used were to correct you when you intentionally misquoted her.
---jerry6593 on 3/25/08


*Christians may worship on any day of the week, but still need to observe the seventh day Sabbath.*

Not commanded of the church anywhere in the New Testament. If you insist on observing the Sabbath, that is your right, however all you have is a tenet from the Old (and obsolete) Covenant. Ever read Hebrews 8:13?
---Lee on 3/24/08


Lee mentioned something about the sabbath.

There are many "ritualistic observances" that Jesus allowed us to continue to observe. What are they?

As for the Sabbath. There are many sabbaths, but one that was ordained by God on the seventh day and is even part of the ten commandments. Christians may worship on any day of the week, but still need to observe the seventh day Sabbath. It's a time between you and God. We need this especially in today's most hectic and fast-paced world.
---Steveng on 3/24/08


7thSeal *...It is our moral obligation to expose and challenge false prophets like Lee in the Spirit of Elijah ...

Comes from that silly belief Adventists were given some kind of commission to reform the church.

'Did not realize I was a prophet, but in any case I totally believe that if someone can prove what I believe to be incorrect from Scripture alone (other than from the writings of Ellen White), I would be very grateful as I seek to follow Jesus and the truth as much as is possible.
---Lee on 3/24/08


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7thSeal - *Like Eve you disregard Gods counsel and eat that which is forbidden.*

Jesus our Lord clearly stated in Mark 7:18f that all foods may be eaten and by His Spirit thru Paul clearly stated that a person may eat anything whereas the weak eat only vegetable (Romans 14:2).

You should realize by now that there are Christians on this forum that believe in the Bible alone, not in the twisted words of Ellen White who rebelled against His church preferring to preach another gospel.
---Lee on 3/24/08


Jerry: I disagree...It is our moral obligation to expose and challenge false prophets like Lee in the Spirit of Elijah using the Scriptures that he seems to wrest and wrangle ,)
---SeventhSeal on 3/24/08


Lee, you said "it took the grace of God for Canright to be delivered," yet that kind of grace was not from God because it did not leave him a better man at all. His last seemed to be worse than his first. It certainly did not lead to humility. What makes you say that is from God?
---Geoff on 3/24/08


Lee: You Offer herbs when God asks for a Lamb. Like Eve you disregard Gods counsel and eat that which is forbidden. Like Caine you present an offering that God will not honor. "In vain do they worship Me teaching for doctrine the commandments of men"

God means exactly what He says. His Commandments are never changing.

Only those who are not His people are exempt from them and free to be in Bondage to sin.

"If you love Me, Keep My Commandments"
---SeventhSeal on 3/24/08


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Geoff - there has been replies to Canright's oscillation.

If you study anyone that has come out of cultic systems, you will find that they typically have a lot of psychological problems they must deal with before they make the final break.

Canright was a very stauch defender of Adventism and ardently defended their beliefs in public forums.

Like Saul of Tarsus, it took the grace of God for Canright to be delivered from such a bondage.
---Lee on 3/24/08


Lee: Thank you for the apology.

"And as to bigotry, any pastor that mounts a pulpit and lambasts another religion is a bigot by definition."

I agree. In fact, that is exactly how I see your incessant attacks against the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

In all the many SDA churches I've attended, I've never heard any condemnation of the Catholic people - only that of the corrupt papal system. We teach "come out of her MY people."
---jerry6593 on 3/24/08


Lee, was that an intentional play on D. M. Canright's errors when you said "one having been DM Cantright a Baptist preacher former high up in the hierarchy of the SDA church"? Maybe that's why you can't get it right, depending on vacillating leaders: blind leading blind.

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. Mt 15:14
---Geoff on 3/23/08


*Would a pastor from one denomination be allowed to lead another denomination? Chances are very, very slim

I think you will find there are many that have graduated from various denominational seminaries and are presently pastors of other denominations.

And if you study the pastors that have left the SDA, they are now preaching in the more Biblical oriented churches, one having been DM Cantright a Baptist preacher former high up in the hierarchy of the SDA church.
---Lee on 3/23/08


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Steveng - *Christianity is nothing more than having a relationship with God. That's it. Nothing more. It's through these few people that the Holy Spirit works.

Somewhat agree with your posts!

Gal 6:15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

And one may as well, say Sabbath keeping as well as circumcision as such is only a ritualistic observance.
---Lee on 3/23/08


Most of you have the mistaken definition of "church."

Would a pastor from one denomination be allowed to lead another denomination? Chances are very, very slim. The Bible's Christians are the people, period. Christ is to return to join (marry) with His followers - not a denomination, a building, or a religion. The seven churches in Revelation are the locations of Christians.
---Steveng on 3/23/08


Most of you are wrong. A few of you are right. This is because the few of you do not belong to a religion.

Religion is what causes most of the problems in the world. You can tell by just reading your posts, bickering against each other to see who is right and who is wrong.

Christianity is nothing more than having a relationship with God. That's it. Nothing more. It's through these few people that the Holy Spirit works.
---Steveng on 3/23/08


And as to bigotry, any pastor that mounts a pulpit and lambasts another religion is a bigot by definition.

Unfortunately that has been the problem with too many Adventist pastors as all you hear is condemnation of others because they are Roman Catholics or have communal worship on Sundays.

They apparently believe that if they can 'prove from the Bible' that all other denominations are wrong, that it would leave them as the only ones in the right.
---Lee on 3/23/08


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*Lee: Are you going to apologize for the Jeremiah Wright comment or not?

Yes, perhaps I went too far in the comparisons, so I apologize however, there is always a fringe in most religions where reasoning from the Scripture is untenable.
---Lee on 3/23/08


Anyone who has ever broken just one of God's laws is a bonified criminal. Men are a god unto themselves. Men pass laws to hurt God's people. These same men claims to be such good men, but they are not. Men will hide behind the cloak of law and justice, some behind religion.
---catherine on 3/23/08


Lee: Are you going to apologize for the Jeremiah Wright comment or not?
---jerry6593 on 3/23/08


*We as Adventists accept we are under the New Covenant.

A covenant is a legally binding agreement between 2 parties.

Since the church is under the New Covenant and not the Old (obsolete Hebr 8:13), how then can you say a tenet (Sabbath keeping) is binding on the Christian if it is not specified in the covenant?

There cannot be anything 'assumed' in a covenant and at the same time, be legally binding.
---Lee on 3/22/08


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We as Adventists accept we are under the New Covenant. What we do not accept is that a command must be restated for it to be correct. The command not to make statues and bow down to them is not repeated yet most protestants keep it.

GOD says:Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The law of GOD is to be written in our hearts.
---Samuel on 3/22/08


SeventhSeal - *was Abel a legalist for Offering a Lamb per God's Command? Hmmm.

There is a difference between the legalist and one who follows a moral code out of respect for God & His creation. The legalist by definition follows a 'strict adherence, or the principle of strict adherence, to law or prescription, esp. to the letter rather than the spirit'(unabridged dictionary).

For instance, 'thou shalt not kill' and the legalist will not do so even to protect his family.
---Lee on 3/22/08


Lee: "The Jeremiah Wright pastors of the SDA"???? Now you have gone too far! J. Wright is a racist anti-American, and as a SDA, I resent the comparison exceedingly. If anyone bears comparison to him, it's religious bigots like you whose minds are intent on bashing other religions. SDAs do not condemn your sin. They merely point to where the Bible does.
---jerry6593 on 3/22/08


dan - *. In Matthew 24 we see an example of how true believers followed Christ's example

I mentioned that before pointing out that our love towards our Lord is reflected in how we treat others. Sabbath keeping OTOH has virtually nothing to do with love of neighbor - love of neighbor being the fulfillment of the law Romans 13:10.
---Lee on 3/22/08


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All that the legalist and sabbath keepers is simplistically contending for is keeping the sabbath holy by not working on a Saturday. Is working to them an unholy act in the sight of God? True rest, the Sabbath of God, is a spiritual experience in Christ, in whom we live in God's holiness and righteousness in everything we do every day in the name of the Lord. Let us give up the vain religious debate and not neglect entering into this true rest of God.
---Gilbert_Jacques on 3/21/08


Geoff - *the issue is not what day we WORSHIP on. It's about keeping the Sabbath holy-Ex 20:8.

The issue is really about whether one recognizes the fact that the Old Covenant was replaced by the New at the Cross AND whether there has been a command for Christians to observe the OT Sabbath under the New Covenant.

It should be very simple for you to point to a verse in the NT that commands Sabbath observance, but no Adventist has yet been able to do so!
---Lee on 3/21/08


*Furthermore, the other part of the Sabbath commandment is to work-v9.

Translated 'Thou shalt NOT retire and live off your pension.

Sorry Geoff, but you have no means from either Scripture or history to state that Christians need observe the OT Sabbath. In fact, all you have besides the writings of your prophetess is a law from a covenant that was declared obsolete.
---Lee on 3/21/08


Lee was Abel a legalist for Offering a Lamb per God's Command? Was Caine free to offer of his own choosing? Hmmm and who hated whom? Hmmm.
---SeventhSeal on 3/21/08


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Geoff - *It is a tenant of BOTH covenants because nothing refutes it.*

Actually the Jerusalem council regarding what was required of the Gentiles effectively refuted the keeping of the OT Sabbath. Otherwise you would have Gentiles observing all the tenets of the Old Covenant except circumcision.

It is also obvious from early church history that the Sabbath was not required of Gentile converts.
---Lee on 3/21/08


Lee, the issue is not what day we WORSHIP on. It's about keeping the Sabbath holy-Ex 20:8. How do we keep it holy? Certainly NOT by breaking or disregarding it. Furthermore, the other part of the Sabbath commandment is to work-v9. If you are keeping Sabbath every day how is one to make a living?

We are only led to your conclusion that the 4th Commandment is NOT obsolete. It is a tenant of BOTH covenants because nothing refutes it.
---Geoff on 3/21/08


*You both are saying that we can commit murder, adultery etc etc..and that I can come shoot anyone for that matter..am I right?

The Jeremiah Wright pastors of the SDA are quick to denounce anyone as a law breaker if they refuse to observe the Sabbath - an OT law not binding on Christians.

While morality has not changed from the OT to the New, Sabbath keeping has little or nothing to do with morality but their mindset cannot be changed by reasoning from the Scripture.
---Lee on 3/21/08


1 John 2:4 "The man who says, I know Him but does not do what He commands is a liar."
v. 6 "Whoever claims to live in Him must do as He did." v.7 "I am not writing you a new command, but an old one which you've had since the beginning." v.8 "I am writing you a new command, its truth is seen in Him,you you." v. 24 "See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you." 3:24 "Those who obey His commands live in Him, He in them."
---dan on 3/21/08


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2. In Matthew 24 we see an example of how true believers followed Christ's example. Both the saved and unsaved saw the same thing, nothing. They did not see the naked, hungry etc. Yet one group did "works" without that realization. An outpouring of Love without thinking. Sharing grace. Works is to gain salvation. Love is to work because of our salvation.
---dan on 3/21/08


Your friend is a Law breaker and including you Mima for you dont believe we should keep the ten commandments of God which is Jesus Christ Himself the Word John 1:1,2,14. You both are saying that we can commit murder, adultery etc etc..and that I can come shoot anyone for that matter..am I right?
---operator on 3/21/08


"However, you have the right given by Scripture to observe any day you wish to honor & worship the Lord (Romans 14:5-6)
---Lee on 3/20/08"
God bless!
---Nana on 3/20/08


Geoff - While Hebrews 8:13 does not state the 4th Commandment is obsolete, it is a tenet ONLY of the Old & obsolete covenant.

The New Testament reflects the New Covenant and the 4th commandment is clearly NOT a tenet of the New Covenant, and what other conclusion can be had other than it cannot be binding on Christians?

However, you have the right given by Scripture to observe any day you wish to honor & worship the Lord (Romans 14:5-6)
---Lee on 3/20/08


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Lee, Hebrews 8:13 does not say the 4th Commandment is obsolete. You confuse "commandments" with "covenants."

In that He saith, A new covenant, He hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
---Geoff on 3/20/08


nana - * ...I am not obliged to follow the Sabbath or dietary laws. On the other hand I would not call them "obsolete".

I respect your position. While those OT practices are optional, they are however, only from a covenant declared obsolete (Hebrews 8:13) & from Romans 14 are optional for the Christian.

I am happy you have not like many Adventists view Sabbath keeping, etc. as mandatory for the Christian walk and a prerequisite for our salvation. God bless!
---Lee on 3/20/08


Lee,2
James made clear in v19, "Wherefore my sentence is,
that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles
are turned to God:..." That sentence should in all fairness
be reciprocal. In good conscience I cannot say that the
likes of circumcision and the laws of Moses are "obsolete"
because even today Moses is preached.
---Nana on 3/20/08


Lee,3
I would say that many of of the laws of Moses are
not applicable to me and mine. Jesus had a wide view also.
Concerning Moses he showed great respect fo him:
Matthew 23:2: "Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in
Moses' seat: 3: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe,
that observe and do, but do not ye after their works: for they
say, and do not."
---Nana on 3/20/08


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Lee,4
Again, Luke 5:14: "And he charged him to tell no man: but go,
and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing,
according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them."
Yet as much as Jesus regarded Moses, in the incidident with
the centurion, Matthew 8:10: "When Jesus heard it, he marvelled,
and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not
found so great faith, no, not in Israel."
---Nana on 3/20/08


Lee,5
The centurion was a man like us, a Gentile, yet he got the greatest
praise for his faith. On hearing him, Jesus neither did send him
to "offer" as "according as Moses commanded" or asked for
a blade for a circumcision on the spot. Rather he said, "Go thy
way, and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee."
---Nana on 3/20/08


Lee,6
This is very important for all of us in understanding ourposition
in God's kingdom. On the same incident with the
centurion, Jesus took the opportunity to teach an important
lesson, Matthew 8:11: "And I say unto you, That many shall come
from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac,
and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12: But the children of the
kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be
weeping and gnashing of teeth."
---Nana on 3/20/08


Lee,7
In those last verses Jesus pronounced the "lawless" as justified
and accepted. Not for their "lawlesness" but for their lawness.
Such lawness as Paul also declared, Romans 2:14: For when the
Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained
in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:"
---Nana on 3/20/08


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Lee,8
Even, Romans 2:13: For not the hearers of the law are just before
God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. :15: Which shew the
work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing
witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing
one another,)
---Nana on 3/20/08


Lee,9
Romans 2:26: "Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness
of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27: And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law,
judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28: For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that
circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
---Nana on 3/20/08


Lee,10
29: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that
of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of
men, but of God." Who is guilty of Law violation? The unrighteous,
according to both Jesus and Paul also. Who does not "fulfill the law"
is guilty.
---Nana on 3/20/08


Lee,
I believe that I am not obliged to follow the Sabbath
or dietary laws. On the other hand I would not call
them "obsolete". For me as a Gentile, many of those
old laws are not part of my walk, however as you
use often that "Council of Jerusalem", Acts 15:21:
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that
preach him, being read in the synagogues every
sabbath day."
---Nana on 3/20/08


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Nana *While sin is a transgression against the law, is it a sin to
violate a law that is obsolete or no longer applicable to the church?

If you be specific about which law you are refering to, I will tell you what I believe about it.

Any law found in the Old Testament that is not also in the New such as the dietary laws, & Sabbath observance.
---Lee on 3/18/08


None of the Old Testament law applies to us today.When Jesus died on the cross,He put an end to the Old Testament law.In place of the Old Testament law,we are under the law of Christ(Galatians6:2)Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.This is the 1st and greatest commandment.And the second is like it:Love your neighbor as yourself.If we do these two things,we will be fulfilling all that Christ wants for us to do,This is love for God:to obey his commands.
---Court7646 on 3/18/08


Lee - *While sin is a transgression against the law, is it a sin to
violate a law that is obsolete or no longer applicable to the church?
If you be specific about which law you are refering to, I will tell
you what I believe about it.
---Nana on 3/18/08


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