God is the miracle worker you should not be interacting on such an intimate level with unbelievers, Thats ''LOVE'' once you take self out of the equasion you let go, AND LET GOD! |
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---Carla5754 on 4/8/08 |
James 4:17 Therefore to him who knoweth to do good ,and doeth it not,to him it is sin. It is very easy in modern times to look at the medical procedures done to produce a child and forget we as Christians must guard our lives that they be Holy unto God,no matter how good something seems,we must make sure we are in line with God's will. The seduction of modern ways may be Satans easiest tool to lead Christians astray. To ignore what the Word says opens one to what Satan will have them d do. |
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---Darlene_1 on 4/5/08 |
1)
I Corinthians 1:27: "But God hath chosen the foolish things
of the world to confound the wise, and God hath chosen the
weak things of the world to confound the things which are
mighty, 28: And base things of the world, and things which
are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are
not, to bring to nought things that are: 29: That no flesh
should glory in his presence." |
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---Nana on 4/5/08 |
2)
Good thing that God do not operate from man's "opinion"!
Consider Joseph, a cursed castaway by his own brethren,
who became their succor in time of need! Consider Moses
who was also "cursed" to be raised by unbelievers, yet God
raised him up and he his people! |
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---Nana on 4/5/08 |
3)
Yeah, oh yeah, those despicable unbelievers! Pharaoh's
daugther on beholding the child Moses and his weeping
had compassion on him. COMPASSION, a thing most
priced by God. Matthew 12:7: "But if ye had known what
this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would
not have condemned the guiltless." And, Matthew 5:7:
"Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy." |
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---Nana on 4/5/08 |
4)
But there be some "Christian opinion " who swears as
having the market cornered on mercy and in righteousness!
Luke 10:33: "But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came
where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on
him,". Why, seems like compassion is such a hard thing to
understand and to show! |
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---Nana on 4/5/08 |
5)
Why do I see so many an enactment of "Love thy Neighbour"
as nothing more than a fake smile on passing by? Must be on
account of the other half of the command, "As Thyself". Is not
rocket science to figure out that as there be many an "opinion"
as to what matters that makes the Church, so will be many an
"opinion" as to the measure of "Thyself" unto others. |
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---Nana on 4/5/08 |
6)
We all would be free to have whatever "opinion" we would in
showing our "Love" if it were not that our Lord commanded,
John 13:34: "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye
love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one
another." Then, we are not free to love as we will, with the
"measure" of ourselves, for we are commanded to Love as
he Loved us. |
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---Nana on 4/5/08 |
This future child would not be brought up in a Christian home is enough reason NOT to do this. Other reasons are obvious, who's her 'real' Mom, who is her aunt..confusing!
It reminds me of that old corny song "I'm my own Grandpa". Don't mess with this kind of nature! It could easily lead to a break in your wife's and her sister's relationship. Just my opinion. |
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---NVBarbara on 4/4/08 |
Yes Eric in a nut shell it would mean her husbands sperm entered your wifes egg making this child step to you but your wife/ Bro INLAW's child. I think there as commandment in there somewhere how beit we are not bound by the Law the Law was not wrong it was weak whereby it could be manipulated by the Jews to continue in sin yet appear in law. Sounds great but is BIBLICALLY terribly Wrong. |
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---Carla5754 on 4/2/08 |
Nana the things you wrote have little to do with the the situation. I called nothing the "dark side". I gave Bible verses which applied to situation,I didn't write it or change it. I've never been prejudice,wasn't raised that way. The husband thinks it's wrong that should end it there 1 Cor 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body but the husband:likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body but the wife. Christians either live by the Bible or don't,then they are called sinners. |
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---Darlene_1 on 4/2/08 |
Darlene 1,
"Nana we're never wrong when we apply God's Word
the way He meant but are when we twist it to suit our belief." |
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---Nana on 4/2/08 |
Darlene 1,
Yes indeed the is a lot of twisting and a turning for
convenience and justification! You've had a few
surgeries I believe. My wife too has had many. She
has been treated and handled by many doctors who
are Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese, Puerto Ricans,
Cubans, US Doctors and what have you. All of them
people of different faiths than ours. |
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---Nana on 4/2/08 |
Darlene 1,
How about you? How about the average Christian?
Do they exclusively "see" Christian doctors? Chances
are they do not, just like us. How easy it is for us to
take "LIFE" from those people who the likes of you
call the "dark" side (2 Cor 6:14), even if they do not
even practice their cultural faith. Do you question your
doctor's faith? |
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---Nana on 4/2/08 |
Darlene 1,
In those medical procedures they touch us in quite
private ways, yet we believe that such is not making
us or our loved ones an unholy thing. We believe
that there is "light" in life giving and the medical pro-
fession. No, we are not "separate" when it comes to
our well being. How about people who need a
kidney? When a match is found, it matters not that
he was a goat. What matters is that we are healed. |
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---Nana on 4/2/08 |
Darlene 1,
Who makes the aspirins you or any other Christian
may take? Are you sure they are Christians? It really
does not matter does it? So you see, you allow for
yourself much liberty but not for others. If we are to
be "separate" I do wish it were only from Hate and
Prejudice. Here is another twist for you, Love thy
neighbour as Christ loves him, (John 13:34,
Matthew 5:46. |
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---Nana on 4/2/08 |
Nana we're never wrong when we apply God's Word the way He meant but are when we twist it to suit our belief. 1Cor 7:14 For the unbelieving "husband" is sanctified by the wife,and the unbelieving "wife" is sanctified by the husband:else were your children unclean,now are they holy. It's the wife sanctified by believing husband,not her egg and sanctified position is the result of marriage union,a believer and unbeliever being married,then holy children,not given outside of marriage. |
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---Darlene_1 on 4/1/08 |
Ritah,1
I am not re-writting "scripture" at all! But we need to apply
Scripture in our lives. A world with cars, airplanes, electricity,
medicine, cell phones, TV , CN and computers, and what
have you. Guess what? All those things I mentioned and a
gazillion more are all very non Scriptural at all! |
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---Nana on 4/1/08 |
Ritah,2
On the subject of santification:
Leviticus 6:18: "All the males among the children of Aaron
shall eat of it. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations
concerning the offerings of the LORD made by fire: every one
that toucheth them shall be holy." What? Touch and be holy?
Well, that is what it says. |
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---Nana on 4/1/08 |
Ritah,3
Exodus 29:37: "Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for
the altar, and sanctify it, and it shall be an altar most holy:
whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy." Again? |
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---Nana on 4/1/08 |
Ritah,4
Scriptures like those give me the understanding to say that yes,
one sister is sanctified by another sister. Whatsoever "thou shalt
bind" or "loose"... (Matthew 16:19) |
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---Nana on 4/1/08 |
Darlene,1
All children have angels in heaven, Matthew 18:10. That
being so, don't you think that all children are most holy
and a blessing to God? But to follow in your line of
reasoning, should Eric and his wife cut ties with her sister
altogether? If you had your way you would probably
deny non Christians the right to have children? Would
you have them be made impotent? What if they convert?
It would be too late then, hey? |
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---Nana on 4/1/08 |
Darlene,2
How about shallow Christians and backsliders, should the
same befall them? How about tomorrow when their hearts
be turned? What hope are you leaving them with? Eric and
his wife will do what they will do, but I believe that Eric is
in the wrong here and so are you. Your "personal opinion
and not open for discussion," you should had left it in your
head. It is a little nutty to voice your views in public and
request it not be open for discussion! |
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---Nana on 4/1/08 |
Darlene,3
300% I do not agree with your "artifical adultry". Somehow
it does not even read right... |
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---Nana on 4/1/08 |
Nana, are you re-writing scripture so that it says that one sister is sanctified by another sister? The scripture refers to husbands and wives, not siblings. Having a child for a brother was a set of circumstances for a certain period of time in our history. Brothers do not marry their deceased brother's widow as a matter of obligation these days and, even when they did, it was not on a par with this present times egg or sperm donations, which is what this question was about. |
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---RitaH on 3/31/08 |
Nana Yes,but even if the egg is covered that will not change being raised in a home with unsaved parents. A child learns what they live and if that doesn't include God then I see that child as cheated out of it's natural birthright of being with the real mother in a Christian home. About my statement of it being artifical adultry that is my personal opinion and not open for discussion,even if some don't like it,they won't change it. |
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---Darlene_1 on 3/30/08 |
Matthew 22:23: "The same day came to him the Sadducees, which
say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, 24: Saying, Master,
Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry
his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
25: Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he
had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto
his brother: " |
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---Nana on 3/28/08 |
Matthew 22:26: "Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the
seventh. 27: And last of all the woman died also. 28: Therefore in the
resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29: Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the
scriptures, nor the power of God."
I consider that Eric's wife is a noble woman of exceptional sensibility.
What is there wrong with her raising up seed unto her sister? |
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---Nana on 3/28/08 |
Darlene_1,
Your comments are so : (. 1 Cor 7:14: "For the unbelieving husband is
sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the
husband: else were your children unclean, but now are they holy."
One believer only is able to bring forth, therefore the sister's egg is
covered. |
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---Nana on 3/28/08 |
Your wife doesn't have the right to curse a child of hers to life with nonChristians. I know that God also sees that as wrong to send a child/egg to them. Christians aren't to even fellowship with the unsaved,let alone curse a child to live an unsaved life,in an unsaved family. She needs to put you and your family first and above all,God. Yes you are right wife's and brother-in-laws child. Is that artificial adultry? |
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---Darlene_1 on 3/28/08 |
My cousin could not have any children, it seemed. They adopted two boys, not babies, and brothers who were a handful. Everyone really admired her actions as selfless etc. Next thing is (just as everyone suspected) God decided that she should fall pregnant and now they have a family of five. |
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---frances008 on 3/27/08 |
Thank you to all that have replied to this. I'm in complete agreement that because we do not agree it shouldn't be done. I think adoption is the best way for them to have a child. I believe that sharing eggs is wrong and should not be messed with |
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---eric on 3/27/08 |
Thanks Pharisee :-) |
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---RitaH on 3/27/08 |
How about a compromise--your wife keeps her eggs, and the two of you help your in-laws pay for an egg from a fertility clinic?
That way, you don't have to worry about relationship issues, yet you're still helping out.
But if you do decide to donate, your wife should undergo genetic counseling, to make as sure as possible that the egg she donates won't be a dud. (It can happen to anyone, unfortunately.) |
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---Nancy on 3/26/08 |
YES YOU ARE RIGHT. |
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---Antonio on 3/26/08 |
There must be a better way. How about adoption? You had better be sure that your wife's biological child is going to have a good Christian upbringing. I sympathize very much with the childless couple. It could be something like biological warfare - I don't know why so many people are infertile these days. |
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---frances008 on 3/26/08 |
Eric
1) A wife & husband should be in agreement in everything they do.
Do you think our Heavenly Father greatest concern was with who would be perceived at first to be the biological parents of Jesus? No! He was not. So why are you?
What makes someone a mother or a father is the persons raising the child. |
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---Shawn.M.T on 3/26/08 |
2) You and your wife should be concerned with the same thing that our Heavenly Father was concerned with before He gave up His seed and that is by Whom & How the child will be brought up, instead of who the child might be able to call his parents. And remember to do all things through pray & supplication. And I pray God Blesses you both in your decision. |
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---Shawn.M.T on 3/26/08 |
I concede Rita, in the future I'll attempt to better season my words.
Sorry for the offense. |
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---Pete_pharisee on 3/26/08 |
No Pharisee, we do not agree and you know we don't. |
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---RitaH on 3/26/08 |
Pharisee, I don't think that God would agree with you on your comment about 'medical waste'.
That's fine, but you have to at least agree that the menstrual cycle of the woman clears the eggs every month, so where do they end up if unused?
What do you call things that are flushed down the toilet? WASTE. Now we agree. |
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---pharisee on 3/26/08 |
Your wife's sister and her husband need to say the sinners prayer and get saved and start walking with the Lord and then they can pray and ask the Lord what they should do. Sharing eggs is NOT God's way. Ask God - Lord, did you say in your word that we can donate our eggs so another couple can have a child? or did you say, "Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart, lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Him, and HE SHALL direct your paths?" Which is the truth here Lord? |
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---Donna on 3/26/08 |
I wouldn't be happy about such an arrangement even if the other couple were Christians but, as they are not, your wife would be allowing her biological child to be born into a non-Christian home. Pharisee, I don't think that God would agree with you on your comment about 'medical waste'. |
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---RitaH on 3/26/08 |
Pray for the egg, so that it will be your wife's child . . . spiritually . . . and so the child will become a Christian.
You are the head of your wife, but I understand not the dictator > "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)
If you were not saved and could have a Christian sister-in-law give you a child *from your wife's own body* . . . how would you judge this, "now" (o: |
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---Bill_bila5659 on 3/25/08 |
You are correct.
However, if you and your wife do not both agree on donating her eggs, then don't! The child could end up suffering because of any disagreements.
Consider that there may also be future legal problems if a child is conceived. If there is a divorce, child custody problems, death of a parent, expenses, visitation, etc. |
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---sag on 3/25/08 |
Think of your own children, you'll dress them feed them, and tenderly care for them with joy all the days of your life.
When it's over and their grown you'll get to be proud of them, and even love their children.
Proceeding that joy to another is not wrong, and it wasn't a child when it was taken from your wife.
It's through his design that her embryo will be produced, but it's the Mother who carries it that actually makes a child from this we'd otherwise call medical waste. |
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---pharisee on 3/25/08 |
Remember that Abraham and Sara had a surrogate mother agreement with Hagar--and look at all the trouble it caused and is still causing. |
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---Jack on 3/25/08 |
Biologically the mother and father would be your wife and her brother-in-law. Your wife's sister would be kind of like a carrier for the baby until he/she is born.
My opinion: if you don't want your wife to do this, she shouldn't do it. |
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---sue on 3/25/08 |
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