efore Christ came, due to Israelites disobedience to His 10 laws, God gave the people the laws of ordinances, sacrificials and ceremonial laws to prepare them for Christ's coming..these laws ended at the cross when Christ bcame the Sacrificial Lamb...The Ten commandments is a transcript of Christ's character we believers all need to conform to to be Christlike..that is not the law done away but ordinances law...get to understand the different laws.. |
|
---pop on 4/4/08 |
Jesus said:"if you dont do like so to these here my children, you also do to me" If we dont help others, we do the same to Christ..so we work the work of God and bring others to Christ..is that not a work required of us all to do? Mat28 go ye therefore into the world, teaching etc? thats work. if we sit idle and keep truth to ourselves, thats selfish and keeping others from truth..God will reject |
|
---pop on 4/4/08 |
joseph is correct! |
|
---mima on 4/3/08 |
SeventhSeal: Did I say I don't keep Christ's commandments? No I didn't. I also didn't say that I was saved by his commandments, I know that I am not saved by his commandments. I am saved through his grace. Before Christ came people were under the law, but since Jesus came we are not under the law anymore but under grace. |
|
---Rebecca_D on 4/3/08 |
"joseph: The "Condition" is repentance."
SeventhSeal: I do not view repentance as a "condition" of salvation, but rather as a 'result' of salvation. It is the conviction of Spirit of God that produces within us and brings forth from us a Godly sorrow that leads us to repentance. We are saved by grace-a divine influence upon our heart-through faith-a superimposed confidence-in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. |
|
---joseph on 4/3/08 |
Rebecca: Your Works reveal your Salvation. If you do not Love Jesus you will not keep His Commandments. You are not saved by the Commandments but by His Sacrifice. He kept them and so should all Christians. He did not die that you continue perverting the Law He died defending. |
|
---SeventhSeal on 4/2/08 |
Not because I have to, but ever since I received Jesus, and was truly born again, my life was transformed to someone who thought of the needs of others. I became someone who had the desire to serve the Lord in what ever position He placed me in. From my own experience when Christ entered my very soul, I truly become a new person. Less selfish, more caring, and wanting to help those less fortunate then myself. Not out of guilt,or duty, but out of desire. |
|
---pgfdottie on 4/2/08 |
It was said well that "they will bite your head off". Anytime you say anything that is contrary to the 'status quo', the message is received as attacking man's empire. So, by the same token, we shouldn't allow ourselves to be so comfortable with what we've been taught by man's institutional churches. We're taught to 'walk by faith', but yet we claim to LIVE BY the SPIRIT.
JESUS tells us that if we live by the spirit, we should ALSO "walk by THE SPIRIT" (Galatians 5:16 and 25). |
|
---greg on 4/2/08 |
You should realize that the message in Hebrews chapter 6 is a very, very strong one. God is not in the habit of making His true message so simple and clear that anybody and everybody can understand it, but He seems to have left chap. 6 to remain in a very SCARY form (many Christians FEAR chap. 6, bible teachers, scholars, pastors, etc. will only address it with 'double talk'), because if we INSIST on belittling/shunning the gift of 'God giving His own Son', what greater insult could there be? |
|
---greg on 4/2/08 |
What "is lacking" is OUR (each individual) own contrite heart. It is up to each person to decide whether they will have a "contrite heart" in our daily activities (and TRULY repent).
The message you found about what is "lacking" is the message you wanted to find so you can continue to have peace in your mind and believe that your works/efforts can be worthy of The Lord's GRACE (as though any of us can be WORTHY). |
|
---greg on 4/1/08 |
We must DECREASE in order that He INCREASE in our hearts, otherwise, as has been done all throughout history, He will send to you a "STRONG delusion" because you prefer the DOCTRINES OF YOUR HEART (Ezekiel 14:4-8, the KJV properly translates the word "according"). It is time that we get serious with His message.
Time is shorter than you think. |
|
---greg on 4/1/08 |
Works will not get anyone into heaven. Christians does works to earn rewards in heaven. It is more of a desire from the heart than anything. If one really and truly loves God then they will want to do works for him. I know some people that believe if one just does good works, that is enough for them to get into heaven, and if tell them different, Lord they bite your head off. |
|
---Rebecca_D on 4/1/08 |
The bible has 2 messages, one for the carnal mind, and another that will only be found by spiritual eyes. Actually, many different messages can be found by carnal minds according to each person's intent. Some carnal minds are completely reprobate, and some only have intentions of self righteous ego/power, but the true message will only be found by having a truly contrite heart and spiritual eyes (I know, it is alot easier to believe that you can simply TRADE "work" for eternal life). |
|
---greg on 4/1/08 |
True Repentants will Keep His Commandments in thier Hearts and do them.
The Blood is not for the unrepentant. Just ask the devil. |
|
---SeventhSeal on 4/1/08 |
**
We are saved by Grace alone. Works add zero to being saved and have no merit**
# James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:23-25 (in Context) James 2 (Whole Chapter)
# James 2:25
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Who's right: Samuel or the Bible? |
|
---Jack on 4/1/08 |
Words are easily put together to convince those who do not have the insight.How can one "Trivialiase a Fact"Jesus said "He who loses his life for my sake saves it,but he who saves his life LOSES IT" How many of you would Go on that cross, but are eager to get the rewards of His Ignominious death. |
|
---Emcee on 4/1/08 |
Most people understand that you cannot do anything to earn salvation. But many fewer people understand that you cannot do anything to lose your salvation once granted by Jesus. The gifts of God are without repentance. Another word God is not an Indian giver. |
|
---Mima on 4/1/08 |
We do Works because Jesus asks us to and because when His Spirit resides in you it becomes a desire to serve rather than to be served. |
|
---SeventhSeal on 4/1/08 |
We are saved by Grace alone. Works add zero to being saved and have no merit.
OUr works are the result of being Born Again. We become new creatures in JESUS CHRIST. We do works because it is our new Nature. If no works are produced it is become we are not saved. |
|
---Samuel on 4/1/08 |
Here is a great truth by greg "
If we lay our own "foundation" in order to 'continuously repent' by performing WORKS/deeds, then we condemn ourselves by not letting The Lord's grace be sufficient for us." Here are words to hear!!!!
|
|
---MIMA on 4/1/08 |
**
Trivializing what Jesus did on the cross as being an incomplete/insufficient foundation (THE cornerstone) is apostasy**
Greg, was St. Paul guilty of apostasy when he penned 1 Col 1:24:
Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.
Notice his reference to "what is still lacking..." |
|
---Jack on 4/1/08 |
Some try to "justify" themselves by working for salvation. Some feel indebted to work to earn it. Some work just for the praise of others. |
|
---Chip on 4/1/08 |
The only works that are acceptable before God and Man are works done in GOOD FAITH.
Faith will produce all good works. |
|
---duane on 4/1/08 |
Trivializing what Jesus did on the cross as being an incomplete/insufficient foundation (THE cornerstone) is apostasy (Hebrews 6:6). Jesus's judgement at the final judgement will be just, and He will not overlook "WORKS" done to show partiality to the saints/brethren IN Christ.
The saints (true brethren IN Christ) are our 'kin' in Christ, but we should not SHOW partiality (special treatment over unbelievers) to them (James 2:9). |
|
---greg on 4/1/08 |
I have just explained what has always been probably the most FEARED chapter in the bible.
Be sure to read the whole chapter AND James 2:9 before replying with any intellectual or scholarly objections. |
|
---greg on 4/1/08 |
If we lay our own "foundation" in order to 'continuously repent' by performing WORKS/deeds, then we condemn ourselves by not letting The Lord's grace be sufficient for us.
We should TRULY and simply just 'REST IN THE LORD', He did it ALL, He abolished the 'laws of sin' (Ephesians 2:15). |
|
---greg on 4/1/08 |
Work Commanded: Works= life, nonworks= death. |
|
---Eloy on 3/31/08 |
On the cross, Jesus conquered/destroyed what would have kept us from returning to Him (sin/death). Jesus is our foundation, but many have simply claimed Him as savior without really understanding that we should NOT ADD a "foundation" of our own as though what He did was insufficient. We've been taught that we should add to what Jesus did with a foundation of "WORKS" in order to repent. We read the introductory doctrine (Hebrews 6:1, read THE WHOLE CHAPTER). |
|
---greg on 3/31/08 |
joseph: The "Condition" is repentance. Failure to acknowledge that His Commandments are correct and are desireable is not true repentance. Willfully pretending they do not matter does not reflect repentace. Keeping them, even after a stumble, shows you have an Intercessor to cover your struggle to Keep His Commandments. |
|
---SeventhSeal on 3/31/08 |
greg: Are you that intent on Commiting Sin by breaking God's Commandments?
New Testament:
Rev14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus" The Commandments of God are in Exodus Ch20.
What you preach is lawlessness not understanding that the Commandments are eternal and that the Law of Sacrificial Ordinance ended at the cross with our passover Lamb of God.
Why do you now make up your own Commandments? |
|
---SeventhSeal on 3/31/08 |
"I believe conditions equal works. Your thoughts?" I believe that conditions would negate the gift, a gift can never be given with conditions or it can no longer be called a gift. We do nothing to earn a gift, it is given out of the benevolence of the giver. I could very well be offended if I gave someone a gift and were asked "what are the conditions attached to this gift?" The recipient would not be required by me to even receive it, for the intent is to bless not dictate. |
|
---joseph on 3/30/08 |
I have no regard for 'LOVING THY NEIGHBOR' to be a COMMANDMENT, for me it is a PRIVELEDGE/GIFT to be able to do that. Neither do I have concern that loving God is a COMMANDMENT. My Lord's spirit has taught me to RISE ABOVE "commandments".
The minimum requirements of The Lord are in "the word of truth", but the law of liberty allows us the option to rise above and surpass them. Now we can be free to develop a conscience (Philemon verse 14). |
|
---greg on 3/29/08 |
Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son
Romans 4:1-3 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast aboutbut not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." |
|
---Christina on 3/28/08 |
God is not so "UNJUST" as to overlook "works" (Hebrews 6:10) because even though you have not found His grace to be sufficient for you (and wish to ADD to what He did on the cross by showing your love to "THE SAINTS" instead of to THE LORD Himself, it was done for His sake. But you are showing "Partiality" when you love His body instead of ALL people, and you will recieve the wages of sin (Rev. 20:14) if you choose to continue with the laws of sin. |
|
---greg on 3/28/08 |
Seventhseal-Did you just make that up?
Are you that intent on hanging on to the laws against sin? Well, it's your choice, but then you will recieve the wages of sin (DEATH), and we all know what happens to "death", it is tossed into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14). bye bye! |
|
---greg on 3/28/08 |
The Nicolaitans and the Gnostics welcomed Jesus because they saw Him as a free ticket to Heaven, regardless of how many demons they permitted into their life through idol worship, injustice, bloodshed, perjury, slander, licentiousness, hedonism, adultery etc. |
|
---frances008 on 3/28/08 |
If you obey Jesus's commands you will remain in His love, just as Jesus has obeyed His Fathe's commands and remains in His love.
If you don't do what the N.Testament, and the O. Testament Ten Commandments say, and follow God's holy prophets' words closely, you are in danger of being deceived by a false gospel. |
|
---frances008 on 3/28/08 |
God's grace is available to everyone and promises salvation without any conditions for those who believe and in their faith develop a living relation with the whole Word of God, not just with the New Testament. For those without Bibles the Holy Spirit can guide them. Those who were never God's People from the beginning cannot get salvation, grace, or any other of the promises because of their disobedience, their idolatry, their slandering of the saints, etc. (Unless they repent to God.) |
|
---frances008 on 3/28/08 |
Anyone who cannot, or does not want to keep the Ten Commandments, could not possibly keep the even stricter ones of Love thy Neighbour and Love God. The Ten Commandments are the introduction to a life with God based on RULES because of inability to relate to him. The New Testament is based ON the Old Testament. You chuck out the Old Testament and you undermine the basis of Christianity. |
|
---frances008 on 3/28/08 |
greg: The 10 Commandments are the Great Law of Liberty from sin.
Without a renewed heart you will not do them out of Love. |
|
---SeventhSeal on 3/28/08 |
Basic
Instructions
Before
Life
Ends.... :) |
|
---James on 3/28/08 |
#4 He gives Abraham as an example, "Was not Abraham our father, justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" - 2:21. He had been justified before God by faith many years prior, even when he believed God, who called him from Ur and started him toward Canaan - Gen. 12:4, 15:6, Heb. 11:8. Remember that Abraham was 75 years old at that time, but 100 years old when Isaac was born. |
|
---Debbie_Jo on 3/28/08 |
#5 Then add 20 years, the age at least when Isaac was offered, and we find Abraham justified by faith in God's sight for 45 years before James speaks of him being justified by works in man's sight. James does not teach that the patriarch was saved by offering up Isaac, nor that he was any more righteous before God after doing it, but that "his faith was made perfect." |
|
---Debbie_Jo on 3/28/08 |
#6 The Scripture was fulfilled, which saith, Abraham believed God and it was imputed unto him for righteousness, and Abraham was called the friend of God. By his faith he was justified from sin and became a child of God, then by his perfected faith he became the friend of God - II Chron. 20:7, Isa. 41:8. For 25 years Abraham believed the Word of the Lord, walking in the light and learning God's will as it was unfolded to him, so that his faith reached its climax in offering up his son. |
|
---Debbie_Jo on 3/28/08 |
#7 If you wish to become a friend of God, walk in the light as it comes to you. Do not yield to your own carnal thoughts and ambitions. Keep on trusting in the Lord and keep close to His heart. Worship God and believe His Word continually. That was what Abraham did. We are saved by grace without works, we do the work of God in obedience as He leads us to and through it. The work we do for the Lord is to gain our rewards. It will not make us any more or less saved. |
|
---Debbie_Jo on 3/28/08 |
Well, mima, it depends on what those conditions are.
I'd say works done in God's love are necessary, because in God's love we have the grace of this love changing us to be like Jesus, which is basic to being saved > "Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment, because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17) |
|
---Bill_bila5659 on 3/28/08 |
#1 James speaks of the proof of our salvation by our walk. Paul sees us justified before God. James wants us to be justified before men. "God justifieth the ungodly who believeth on Jesus." Men justify the believers who prove their faith by good deeds. "If a brother, or sister be naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled, notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body, what doth it profit?" |
|
---Debbie_Jo on 3/28/08 |
Abraham did what he did because of faith alone. No man in his right mind would offer his son in sacrifice. It was not the works of the flesh, it was the work of his faith alone. Nothing else but faith alone MADE his flesh do what it did. There is no such thing as faith and works. They cant be separated. Its simply called FAITH.
Faith will always produce working results. |
|
---duane on 3/28/08 |
#2 He adds, "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." Dead faith is no faith. Paul agrees with this, telling believers to labor with their hands, that they "may have to give to him that is needy" - Eph. 4:28. When the kingdom apostles imagined that Paul was neglecting the poor, he declared that he "was forward in remembering the poor" - Gal. 2:10. James demands the proof of faith by works, and adds, "Thou believest that God is one, thou doest well. |
|
---Debbie_Jo on 3/28/08 |
#3 Demons believe and shudder, but wilt thou know, O empty man, that faith without works is dead?" - 2:19, 20. Men may believe, and not be saved. Christ did not die for demons, there is no salvation for them, tho' they know and admit that He is the Son of God. Men may do the same and yet never be saved. When men believe with the heart, they obtain salvation, which produces a holy reverence toward God. Therefore, James insists that living faith, even "the faith of God," is very practical. |
|
---Debbie_Jo on 3/28/08 |
**Abraham didn't have to do anything except believe God.**
James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Who's right: You or the Bible? |
|
---Jack on 3/28/08 |
You are absolutely right, pqfdottie, but we are to live under the LAW OF LIBERTY (feeling free to NOT shoulder an unreasonable burden when we are 'burnt out', SO THAT OUR GOODNESS not be by COMPULSION, Philemon verse 14), in other words, we should not FEEL compelled and the brethren should not pressure us. Yes, the brethren IN Christ ARE our kin, but we should not SHOW partiality to them over unbelievers, for if we SHOW partiality, we sin (James 2:9). |
|
---greg on 3/28/08 |
greg, we all know God is not needy, but did you forget, Galatians 6:2 "Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the "law" of Christ. "YES" Salvation is by Grace. Remember "do unto the least of these and you have done unto me" We are not to just say thanks, and do nothing... |
|
---pgfdottie on 3/28/08 |
God is not needy. His true Body (TRUE brethren IN Christ) should PREFER not to burden each other by reqesting "works" (and will not, The Lord's grace will be sufficient for them, the LORD'S body is not NEEDY either). |
|
---greg on 3/28/08 |
Many sheep of hirelings, John chapter 10 choose to continue in the "law of commandments" and the 'law of ordinances' which THE LORD WENT TO THE CROSS in order to abolish (such gratitude!!). Ephesians 2:15 and refuse to live under THE LAW OF LIBERTY (James 1:25 and 2:12) by requesting/imposing "WORKS" as a requirement for salvation. Let us not forget that God is just in His judgement (Hebrews 6:10) after those brethren have laid their own foundation (Hebrews 6:1). |
|
---greg on 3/28/08 |
We should truly REST in The Lord and live quietly, 1 Thessalonians 4:11. Of course, if a JUST/righteous man would like to know how to return to God, we should tell them of the GOSPEL (not condemn with ALL SCRIPTURE, only tell of Jesus's saving grace and crucifixion). The great commission is very explicit about "GOSPEL", if they are really sincere, they will learn the rest on their own.
If they are not truly just/righteous, they will never truly love God, they will only FAKE. |
|
---greg on 3/28/08 |
Works are a result of Grace. God chooses who he wishes to grant it to and it is irresistible. Man is grateful and wishes to do thing to please God for all mankind is unworthy but God the Father grants it any way to his pre-chosen elect. You become an adopted member of the family of God with Christ as a co-sibling and become a member of the family with full right and privileges of that membership and nothing can take that right from you. |
|
---notlaw99 on 3/27/08 |
No exceptions - GRACE is all God provides for salvation, (at least on His part - we humans exhibit FAITH in order to receive His grace.) Works is important, but not for salvation. Read Ephesians 2:8-9 |
|
---wivv on 3/27/08 |
Mima
1)1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. |
|
---Shawn.M.T on 3/27/08 |
2) The soul is in hopes of being filled with Gods Word & Spirit the moment when a person HEARS (not just listening to) the Word of God. This is when the soul is hearing the call of the Lord. After receiving the call of the Lord all that is left is for the soul to renounce its evil ways by proclaim that Gods Word made flesh is its Lord and savior and to repent of its sins. The soul that does this shall have salvation.
These are the conditions. |
|
---Shawn.M.T on 3/27/08 |
The most accurate answer to this question is that salvation is only by the finished work of Jesus Christ. True salvation will produce "works" but no amount of "works" can produce salvation. |
|
---tommy3007 on 3/27/08 |
Being good at anything takes work. Being a good wife takes work. Being a good employee takes work. Being a good Christian takes work. Studying God's word takes commitment, some call that work, but I crave it.But when I talk to someone about reading the Bible they think that takes work. I guess it's all in how you look at it. |
|
---pgfdottie on 3/27/08 |
#1 Eph 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Salvation is totally of God. Our part was to simply believe and it was not by our own faith but the faith of God for He gave each of us a measure of faith to believe. As I have said so many times, Our old human nature wants desperately to take credit for some part or all of our salvation, of which we actully had no part except for believing. |
|
---Debbie_Jo on 3/27/08 |
#2 We, like Abraham, are counted righteous when we believe. Abraham didn't have to do anything except believe God. Read and study the Abrahamic Covenant. It is all about what God will do, not about what Abraham was to do. It is the same thing today as we are still under the Abrahamic Covenant. We are his heavenly seed (as the stars of heaven). Works can have no part in our salvation if we want to stay under the grace umbrella. Works takes us back under the law. |
|
---Debbie_Jo on 3/27/08 |
Is not the act of saving faith itself a work?
After all, YOU are the one who has to do the believing.
Just because there is no outward action doesn't stop it from being a work. God isn't fooled by externals--or the lack of them. |
|
---Jack on 3/27/08 |
Mima
*Conditions* could mean anything. You should have asked them to be more specific, so you could better help them understand Gods Saving Word of Grace.
But to answer *your* question: NO! Salvation does not come by the works of man but by the grace of God. |
|
---Shawn.M.T on 3/27/08 |
Faith without works is dead. If a man says he has faith but has no works, can that faith save him? The answer is no, it can't because it's dead. I don't believe it is the works that do the saving but without them it proves there is no saving faith. Even so, both then are necessary according to James. |
|
---john on 3/27/08 |
|
