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Saved From The Law Or Sin

Did Jesus come to save man from THE LAW or from SIN?

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 ---jerry6593 on 4/12/08
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Donna, I agree with you sis. Without Torah we are without the means to even know what God sees and sin and unrighteousness, or what he see as righteous behavior. It defines sin, it is our "instruction in righteousness."

This is why I fail at times to understand why so many do not see Paul's writings in that light. Remember, when he said all scripture was given by the inspiration of God, there was no NT then. He was speaking ONLY about Torah and the Prophets because that was the ONLY "scripture" in existence when he said that. While I believe Paul is inspired, his words were not "scripture" at that point.

Peace.
Ken
---Ken_Rank on 8/15/09


Kathr, very good example.
---MarkV. on 8/14/09


Our Lord can be trusted to take care of us no matter how inperfect we are. If we sin again He will still forgive us through our Mediator, who knows we are not perfect yet.
---MarkV. on 8/13/09

Put another way. Does a twenty dollar bill lose it's value because it gets wrinkled or goes throught the washing machine, or gets dirty? Nop! It's still worth $20.00 no matter what.

Does your own child lose it's value when he is naughty? Conditional love there?

We are LOVED unconditionally, even when we get spanked!
---kathr4453 on 8/14/09


Ken_Rank -- The law is still needed for men to define sin. That has not changed. The court has changed, however, because we now have an attorney to represent us. (Still the best policy is to be a law abiding citizen.)
---Donna66 on 8/13/09


Donna>>The Bible itself states that the purpose of the law is to make us aware of sin.

>>Well stated. Grace is given to a person when there is something they can not measure up to. We can't measure up to perfection, to a perfect walk, and thus God gives us grace through faith in Yehoshua. But does that abrogate that which we do not measure up to? If I got a speeding ticket and the judge showed me grace and tossed the case out... does that abrogate speeding? Is speeding now done away with?

Matt. 5:17-19 has Messiah's own words upholding Torah.
---Ken_Rank on 8/13/09




I believe that our belief that Torah is done away with comes from simple errors in interpretation. So let's put that theory to the test. Any of you can take part... post one verse each that to you shows beyond doubt that Torah is dead and gone.

Peace.
Ken
---Ken_Rank on 8/13/09


Jerry, in your parable,
You have a good dad, that said I will pay the ticket. And He also said, I will always take care of you no matter what.
If He goes back on his word, then he cannot be trusted.
Our Lord can be trusted to take care of us no matter how inperfect we are. If we sin again He will still forgive us through our Mediator, who knows we are not perfect yet.
---MarkV. on 8/13/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Jesus came to keep sin from working death in us by our carnal mind : Saving us from what the Law could not do through the weakness of the flesh. Being carnally minded, we were sold under sin taking occasion within the Commandment of the Law to wrought in us all manner of eager desires, to deceive & slay us.

The Spirit of the Law is Holy, Just & Good, and has prophetically reined in Christ, so that now through the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus we're made free from the law of sin & death : Transforming us into being spiritually minded which is Life & Peace, and is why Jesus came, so that this Righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us.

Refer. Rom.7:7-14,8:2-7,12:1-3
---ShawnM.T. on 8/12/09


The Bible itself states that the purpose of the law is to make us aware of sin.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law, no flesh shall be justified in His sight, FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.
Paul calls the law our "schoolmaster"
(Galatians 3:24)

The gentiles were not under the Law... but they were not without guilt.

Rom 1:20- 21 For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.
For when they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God, nor were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened
---Donna66 on 8/12/09


Gentiles were never under the Law to begin with.
---Linda on 9/5/08

>>With respect Linda, I disagree. When the Israelites went on the Exodus, non-Israelites went with them, gentiles. The Torah was for them as well:

Exo 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Also, when Torah was given, it was given as a light to the world. Something the nations (non-Israel) would look to:

Deu 4:6 Keep therefore and do them, for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

Peace.
Ken
---Ken_Rank on 8/12/09




For some reason over the centuries, Christianity has formulated the notion that Torah, God's Law, is the burden we are free from. With David calling it a "delight," you might understand why I see a disconnect here?

Torah in reality is no different than the Laws of your own country, state, or community. Torah however, is the intended set of Laws to govern Israel, though they have been under secular rule since Babylon.

The burden is sin, is brings about death, a separation from God. This, and MAN MADE religious laws are what Messiah did away with, he earned the right to perfect whom he wills through his actions.

Peace.
Ken
---Ken_Rank on 8/12/09


Jesus came to save us from the WRATH of God to come upon all! Those in Christ aree saved from the WRATH to come!
---kathr4453 on 8/11/09


once with the son, always with the son
once with salvation, always salvation
once fear god, always fear god

sin does not negate salvation, torment and anguish exist even in knowing ones salvation

our existance is not flawed, but rather inherent by God's design / plan

Only through our own suffering can we come to know the truth of salvation.

Even knowing the truth, our suffering in this life shall never cease.

We suffer the lost soles of mankind, it is with us all the days in this lives.
---wade on 7/2/09


TO put this simply. God gave it to me the otherday. Now pay attention and get it. The law is a have to, grace is a want to. The answer to your question is this. Not everyone will be saved from their sins, because no one deserves it. As far as the law, sin, question goes, I have already answered it.
catherine

I payed attention and you did not follow the truth of the Law defines sin. Those who teach salvation by works or by the law teach the law is a have to so to save yourself. But Moses taught grace in looking to JESUS by sacrifice.

Grace is a want to is true. We want to live like JESUS and avoide sin. We want to love GOD which is what the first four commandments are about and love others which is the last six.
---Samuel on 9/5/08


Dead to both. Besides, Gentiles were never under the Law to begin with.
---Linda

Then you need to contact the Way of the Master missionaries. For they teach that the law is to tell everyone they are sinners. If Gentiles are not under law then they are all saved and going to heaven because they cannot sin.

The law condemns everyone for all have sinned. Romans 3 it does not and cannot save. JESUS came to save us from sin.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

That should end the question.
---Samuel on 9/5/08


TO put this simply. God gave it to me the otherday. Now pay attention and get it. The law is a have to, grace is a want to. The answer to your question is this. Not everyone will be saved from their sins, because no one deserves it. As far as the law, sin, question goes, I have already answered it.
---catherine on 9/5/08


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Dead to both. Besides, Gentiles were never under the Law to begin with.
---Linda on 9/5/08


The messiah was sent to do the will of the Father.
---AG on 7/15/08


Matthew 1:21: "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
---Nana on 7/12/08


1) Law defines sin.

2) Sin prevents spiritual peace in our conscience.

Even though The Lord abolished the sin laws...Ephesians 2:15...
"by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace"

...His PURPOSE was not to bring spiritual peace, but that we should learn from His spirit to make a clear division between right and wrong (Luke 12:51) as with a sword ("sword of the spirit", Ephesians 6:17) so there is no middle ground between the two ("no variation or shadow", James 1:17) that the change from good to evil is clear and abrupt.

We are to live the PERFECT law (James 1:25 and 2:12).
---more_excellent_way on 7/9/08


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Jerry, your parable was great. I will have to remember this. Do you have any more words of wisdom?
---james on 5/29/08


The flesh can never be perfect...we live in a body of sin and death. We are made righteous through HIM alone. Not by might or by power, but by HIS SPIRIT. THE BORN AGAIN HAS NO SIN. The flesh will always be sinful.
---duane on 5/28/08


Amen jerry6593, great parable! I agree 100%.
Just because we're forgiven for breaking the law, doesn't mean the law is done away with.
If it was so easy to remove God's law, or if the law was so un-necessary, perhaps God would not have been required to give His only Son to be tortured and die for its transgression.
I think the fact that Jesus had to die is the greatest testimony of the eternal, unchanging, Holy nature of the law.
---Todd1 on 5/28/08


Life in the spirit enables us to live free from the law or principle of sin and death. Read on>>This does not mean that the believer is free from sin or free from the prospect of death, but that the principle of sin and death does not have dominion over him. >>>Law of M. could not justfy or sanctify. Mosaic law, good and holy but flesh is too weak and unable to keep law, no power. Jesus' Blood can do. For those whom there is no cond. to live a life that is not fill with sin, a L which will not end in D.
---catherine on 5/27/08


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Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Accepting Jesus we are no longer under the law of sin and death. We have eternal life. John 3:15 The sin of this world leads to death. After the fleshly death where do you want to find yourself. We accept that Jesus died on the cross and rose again. The law he fullfilled was the sacrifical law. His blood covers our sin as long as we have accepted him as Lord.
---Tammy on 5/27/08


duane_Jesus came to do AWAY with sin. It is finished. Get over yourselves, the flesh cant overcome sin, In HIM we have forgiveness of sin.
---duane on 4/14/08

Christians can "Overcome Sin" IF they don't Surround Themselves W/IT!
Once we come to Jesus, Were not fallen short of the Glory of God Anymore.
So put on your Armor and Overcome The Powers of Darkness.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/27/08


duane: "Sin is finished?" Look around you sport, it's still here!
---jerry6593 on 5/27/08


Parable:

I got caught running a stop sign. The cop let me off with a warning - GRACE! (Alternately, My Dad paid the ticket - GRACE!) But, they didn't remove all the stop signs in the land. The law still stands. Just because I'm forgiven for past sins, doesn't mean I'm now free to transgress the law.
---jerry6593 on 5/27/08


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James, although sin started with the rebellion of Lucifer, Jesus death on the Cross will never cover the sin of the fallen angels. So Jesus didn't come to save angels from sin or the Law.

All in perspective to the question...Thesselonians states clearly, the WRATH of God is coming on those who rejected the love of the Gospel that they may be saved....from what?????
---kathr4453 on 5/27/08


Both! woo hoo! Read the bible..it is awesome what Jesus did on the cross and through the Resurrection!
---melanie on 5/26/08


Jesus came to save His people from their sins. However, we must stay in prayer and thanksgiving. It is my and your duty to do so, if you are truly His.
---catherine on 5/26/08


Can I make a correction? Sin started with Satan, not man. Jesus came to testify to the truth. Anyway that is what He said He was born to do. He only made it possible to be sanctified because He also was sanctified. It appears as though we still have something to do if the word "overcome" means anything.
---james on 5/26/08


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Jesus came to save us from the WRATH to Come.

Sin began with Adam and Eve....long before the LAW. *The LAW was added* that sin would abound....but where SIN abounded....GRACE much more Abounded...shall we continue to sin that GRACE may abound...GOD FORBID!!!!please read Romans 5 & 6
---kathr4453 on 5/25/08


The answer to the first part of the question (law) is " For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." The second part of the question (sin) is answered in John 1:29,"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."
---Mima on 5/25/08


If the law is HOLY then why do you break it? Is God watching will he punish you YES to both. Same questions, but to the powers of the law of the land does it matter yes and no, until you get Caught.
---Emcee on 5/24/08


Off the top of my head I'd say He saved mankind from sin, AND the CURSE of the law (which is the punishment for breaking it.) All in all, I think they are one and the same, since sin is transgression of the law. :-) God's law is called "holy", so I dont think we need to be saved from it.
---Todd1 on 5/24/08


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In answer to both questions...Jesus came to do away with sin, therefore, HE fulfilled the Law for you, so you could be led by the Spirit and NOT the Law. Sin is transgression of the Law. Where there is no law, there is no transgression. Rejoice...We are now saved by grace through faith.
---calhoon on 5/23/08


JJ:The law is there to follow and use as a guide JJ:those who break the law get fined if you have to pay the penalty on earth why Not in Heaven the law of the land are numerous, God Has ONLY 10.surely we can be trusted to obey there are no police around,Or do we need angels with Flaming swords at every street corner.BTW you do have a conscience.
---Emcee on 5/23/08


The law is intended as a "guide" if you will to show ones need of a savior. Jesus died to take our punishment that we deserved because of our sins. Think of it this way, your in court, you have a $10,000 fine that you couldn't pay, the "judge" can't let you go till justice is satisfied, Jesus steped in and paid it for you so you could go free.
---jeff_jansen on 5/23/08


Jesus came to save mankind from the ultimate penalty of sin.
---Janze on 5/13/08


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Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jesus can't be saving us from the "law" if the New Covenant was intended to write the law on the hearts of God's people.
---AG on 5/9/08


Neither. Well, He came to save His own people from their sins. The laws of God He did not come to do away with. Man is always upholding man's laws, but never upholding God's laws. Infact, man is doing everything with the help of Satan, to do away with God's laws. And what a shame that is. This country shall be destroyed.>>You don't expect to mess with God's laws and get away with it, do you? You can't be that STUPID.>>Can you?
---catherine on 4/17/08


#3 God knew He would have to do it all and make it work regardless of what temptation we might fall into. Our sins, after we are saved, may rob us of our rewards, but they can never rob us of our salvation. Amos 3:3 says two can't walk together unless they agree. After you are born again, your Spirit man is always in agreement with God, and your flesh will never agree with God, but then God is not walking with your flesh or old man, God reckons him dead.
---Debbie_Jo on 4/16/08


#1 Mima is absolutely correct. When Jesus said - It is finished - that means that it is totally finished. There is nothing left for us to do but believe. God, in His infinite wisdom and knowledge, knew that man was unable to walk the straight and narrow, He knew that man could not free himself from sin and could not be expected to live a righteous life. So Jesus Christ gave birth to Himself in our heart, giving us His divine righteousness.
---Debbie_Jo on 4/16/08


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#2 He did not make over our old sinful nature, but instead created a new race of sinless, righteous, holy and heavenly people. When we are born again we become a part of that heavenly race. Those of you who believe that you can lose your salvation are putting emphasis on yourself rather than on God. We can't keep ourself, we can't save ourself and if God had to depend on any of us to do the right thing and live a sinless life, no body would get to heaven.
---Debbie_Jo on 4/16/08


Mima, Hebrews 10 makes it clear that you cannot treat the Son of God as an unholy thing. Yes, God died for sinners, but he then says 'Go, and sin no more.' The Bible says 'God will not be mocked'. If you think you can walk with God and walk in sin together, forget it. This is a Catholic heresy.

Gordon, you are correct I believe. Thanks for further developing on the theme.
---frances008 on 4/16/08


Frances008, So True. We Saints are to walk the Straight and Narrow Path of Holiness. If any saint thinks that some sins are "not a problem with GOD" for them to live in, WITHOUT REPENTING OF THEM and think they're headed for Heaven because "once they're Saved, they're ALWAYS Saved" will hit the Gates of Hell like a brick wall. Judgment begins at GOD's own House, with His own people. NO ONE, who lives in continual sin, be they lost or "saved" will EVER enter the Pearly Gates.
---Gordon on 4/16/08


This statement,"Those who believe in Jesus are justified and forgiven of all sins up to that moment. Any sin they do in the future has to be put under the blood of the Lamb." Is exactly what Jimmy Swaggart used to teach, today, of course he talks of grace knowing full well that he is still saved after his misadventure. Notice it is the individual that puts his sin under the blood. Thereby denying the efficacy of Christ's sacrifice. The sacrifice was only good up until a certain moment.
---Mima on 4/16/08


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Jesus came to fulfil the Law with its requirements that sin be put to death. Those who believe in Jesus are justified and forgiven of all sins up to that moment. Any sin they do in the future has to be put under the blood of the Lamb. There is no forgiveness IMHO without the fruit of repentance which is a changed life, so death bed repentance is not really something you should depend on. The law remains as a measure to show us the light from the dark. We are expected to do MORE than law requires.
---frances008 on 4/16/08


The bible says that Jesus came to fulfill the law. Isaiah 61..He sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives, to open the prison to those who are bound...Saved from sin.
---melann on 4/16/08


From both. Because of Jesus we are no longer under the law, but grace. We do have a sin-nature in our flesh, but we have the Holy Spirit in us so that we can overcome sin.
We have redemption through His blood, not works of the law. (Ephesians 1:7)
---Rickey on 4/15/08


He came to save man..He came bcos He is the Law..He came and the Mosaic laws of ordinances ended for He bcame the Sacrificial Lamb of God that took away the sins of the world..no more sacrificing animals for atonement..He came to save us from our spiritual sins...
---pop on 4/15/08


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Jesus came to do AWAY with sin. It is finished. Get over yourselves, the flesh cant overcome sin, In HIM we have forgiveness of sin.
---duane on 4/14/08


Neither! Jesus came to earth to make it possible to be saved. We must overcome things ourselves. (Rev.3) Are you a slave to sin? If so, Jesus made it possible to be free (the truth shall make you free).
---Dr.Rich on 4/14/08


JESUS (YAHUSHUA) came to save from SIN and from Eternal Damnation in the Lake of Fire. Someone who is Born Again is freed from the Mosaic Laws (600+ Ceremonial Laws), but, ARE to live by the 10 Commandments, which hang on the Two Greatest Commands, Loving GOD and then your neighbour as yourself. In the 10 Commandments one sees that the first 4 deal with loving GOD, the last 6, with loving your neighbour as yourself. YAHUSHUA came to FULFILL the 10 Laws, not abolish them.
---Gordon on 4/14/08


Scripture John 1:29,"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."
---Mima on 4/14/08


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Jesus came to redeem mankind, to condemn sin in the flesh and to fulfill the Law. In doing so He totally freed us from the bondage of the Law, when Christ was crucified, we were crucified, when Christ died, we died, when Christ was buried, we were buried, when Christ rose from the grave, we rose from the grave, when He came up on newness of life, we came up in newness of life. When He said - it is finished - it was finished for us also. WE are free of the old life and are made in His image.
---Debbie_Jo on 4/13/08


Jesus saved man from sin. See Matthew 1:21 and Acts 2:38. The Law reveals what sin is. See Romans 7:7. Jesus did not do away with the Law, He summed it up in two verses. Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and love thy neighbor as thyself.Matthew 22:37-40
---pg1 on 4/13/08


"Did Jesus come to save man from THE LAW or from SIN?" Simply stated, Jesus came to redeemed us from the law of sin and death, thus saving those who believe, acknowledge and confess His atonement and lordship, from it's penalty.
---Josef on 4/12/08


From the Law of sin and death.
---Monique on 4/12/08


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(1) John the Baptist said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" (in Gospel of John 1:29) Jesus takes away "the sin" which makes us able to do the sin-s. The Holy Spirit's power of love CURES us of this sin so we become more and more naturally immune to Satan's sin-sick stuff. So, yes, Jesus came to save us from our sin which makes us available to how Satan's spirit (Ephesians 2:2) has us sin for pleasure and then suffer emotional pain, "later".
---Bill_bila5659 on 4/12/08


(2) You ask if Jesus came to save us from sin "OR" the law. Well, obviously Jesus came to save us from sin. But what about the law? Perhaps Jesus came to save us also, somehow, from the law . . . like how He did come to save us from God's judgment which is not sin but something also we are saved from . . . right?
---Bill_bila5659 on 4/12/08


from sin.not one man has ever kept the law,thats why God sent his son.
---tom2 on 4/12/08


Jesus came to fulfill the Law and save from sin. The Law still applies to us today.
---Leslie on 4/12/08


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I Timothy 1:15.

Jesus came to save sinners.

While Jesus save us from our sin, we still have man-made laws to live by.

For example, we are obligated to pay taxes to the government. Luke 20:25. "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's".
---Augie on 4/12/08


Jerry6593
...the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ (1Cor15:56-57).


Christ came to liberate the human soul from, the condemnation of, sin by fulfilling what the law could not do because it is weak through the flesh: He condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Romans 8:3-4).
---Shawn.M.T on 4/12/08


Both. Rom.7 explains it is because of the law that sin entered. Without the law there was no imputation of sin. Jesus has saved me from my sin so he must have removed the penalty the law imputed to me. I'm saved from both.
---john on 4/12/08


1) Jesus came to save from the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH by dying for us. Romans says that the jews perrish with the law (of Moses) and the pagans perrish outside the law (of Moses) (The law says that you will live if you keep the entire law) blessing and curses on mount ebal. so by not keeping the law you die, unless you put your trust in Jesus and you repent the sin that so easely entangles you. Acts says that it is not up to us (pagans) to live by the Jewish laws.
---Andy on 4/12/08


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2) so no sircumcision, food and purification rites are required from us, al that left for non-jews is the restraining of sexual perversity, the eating of blood and the estrangled animals. yet of course if it pleases anyone to live kosjer he should by all means do realising that it is Jesus Christ that saves and not any practising of anything whatsoever. for it is by grace you are saved through faith, and this not from your own it is the gift of God so that noone may boast.
---Andy on 4/12/08


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