Is A Saved Sinner Possible
Could this scripture, explain how we can be both sinners, and the same time saved? Romans 8:10,"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness" think about it.
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---Mima on 4/25/08
Helpful Blog Vote (4)
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I never said my flesh sins, I said my flesh is sinful. There is a difference. |
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---duane on 5/9/08 |
Duane & Duane DM.
You say your flesh sins but you do not sin.
So you do not take responsibiltiy for your own actions. |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/9/08 |
2)
He follows on that saying with, Romans 8:13: "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." So then if " the body is dead because of sin" as some of you make it, why does Paul say to "mortify the deeds of the body"? Beating a dead horse will not make him ride again and rebuking and mortifying a hamburger will not make it any holier. |
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---Nana on 5/9/08 |
3)
I Corinthians 6:18: "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body, but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body." That seem to deny the excuse of the "fleshy", does it not? How is that? Most sin is driven not by the flesh but by the Spirit of the Flesh, whose reins we should hold tight. Again, the flesh is not the culprit but the Man that is in the said flesh. Romans 8:8: "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.". |
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---Nana on 5/9/08 |
4)
Another Scripture to the point, James 3:2: "For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body." What use is there for a bridle on a dead body? James 3:10: "Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be." There is the meat and potatoes of a Saved Sinner, a thing which ought not be. |
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---Nana on 5/9/08 |
5)
Saying that we are dead to the flesh and alive to the Spirit does not automatically make it so, neither is saying that we are saved, even been saved does not make it so. Otherwise, why would Jesus say "watch and pray"? All the flounder does with his sayings is make an excuse for their next and past ambush on their prey. These creatures can't explain away their propensity to sin, therefore they blame the flesh. |
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---Nana on 5/9/08 |
6)
If the flesh was all that is made of it, we would all be sleep walkers committing all kind of iniquities! When we sin we should not say, "... my body is weak", rather what is more appropiate, "... my Spirit is weak", and pray for strenght and watch as the Lord advised. See Matthew 24:42_51, it will all come out and being a flounder will not save that side you have pressed against the mud. |
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---Nana on 5/9/08 |
1)
Some men remind me of a flounder, as in one-sided. Men that blame their body for whatever sin may be found in them, again remind me of the flounder fish.
The flesh is as sinful as a burger on a grill. Now Paul said, Romans 8:10: "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." |
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---Nana on 5/9/08 |
sinners do what is called projecting: they themselves abide in sin, then sinfully project their own exclusive sin outward onto nonparticipating others, and delusionally think and say that all others are just sinners like they are. The person not participating in anothers sin is not even an accessory to that other's sin: but instead, it makes only that one sinner a sinner, and the rest of the people accountable for their own deeds whether they be righteous or sinuous. Reference: Ezekiel chapter 18. |
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---Eloy on 5/9/08 |
Jesus NEVER said, if you do ALL these things that i have commanded you to do, Your still a Sinner... |
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/8/08 |
Alan & Others_Do you Love God W/All your Heart, Mind & Soul AND your Neighbor as yourself?
If so you do well!
I'm Sure you ALL stopped doing all those Old things, So, Where IS your Sin?
Where IS a Mans Sin if he is washed in the Blood of Jesus & changes his Old ways & keeps those things in which he told us too? |
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/7/08 |
I am pleased to see that you do not sin, Duane.
The Bible still says that there is only One who does not sin. |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/7/08 |
We are saved because Jesus loves us and gave his life for all of us. We did nothing to deserve it and can't boast that we did anything to obtain it. God is merciful. Romans 11:32. |
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---SueQ7373 on 5/6/08 |
Alan,There is no contradiction....Salvation is dependant upon a new creation. The old man has died. The Christian is born again, a NEW creation. Therein lies your salvation. Jesus never came to save the sinful flesh, for flesh shall die. Consider yourself dead to sin and alive to God...Do u believe this?Does anyone believe this????? |
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---duane on 5/6/08 |
Frances, I found an article that made a pretty good case in support of your theory that Mary was the surrogate mother of Jesus. I will have to rethink that. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. |
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---SueQ7373 on 5/6/08 |
Duane D martin ... maybe if you called yourself DDM, it would solve the confusion.
Jan ... yes ... I just want Duane to explain hsi contradictory statements
Darlene .. do you mean that now you are saved, you never sin?
I know I can't make that claim! |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/6/08 |
Alan_I'm me Duane D. Martin,
duane IS someone Else.
Maybe the Mods have a way of telling? they'll Clear it up, IF needed?
1st let me STATE that,I BELIEVE IF a man SINS we have a Mediator(Jesus)!
I JUST Don't want people to SAY:
I'M saved, SO i can do what i want too.
And I KNOW as a MAN of God, When a man comes to GOD, HIS desire to Fulfill the OLD SINS, Leave Him.
keep Striving NOT to Fulfill the LUSTS of the Flesh, AND you'll SEE what you are capable of. |
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/6/08 |
DDM ... Since Duane will not explain how he can make these two contradictory statments, perhaps you can?
"Do I still sin? NO WAY"
"My flesh may do SINFUL deeds at times" |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/6/08 |
Alan of UK: first John1:8-If We Say We Have No Sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. John seemed to feel he was a sinner saved by grace. I know the truth is in me, because I am a great sinner who has a great Saviour. Famous words of John Newton. In Christ\Ian |
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---ian8763 on 5/6/08 |
1John3:4-9 Whosoever commiteth sin transgresseth the law. And ye know he was manifested to take away our sins,and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,neither known him. Little children,let no man deceive you:he that doeth righteousness is righteous,even as he is righteous:he that committeth sin is of the devil,-. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,that he might destroy the works of the devil.Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin,-. |
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---Darlene_1 on 5/6/08 |
I cant or wont argue with people who cant accept the work of the Cross. The sin issue is over, we are dead to sin and alive to God. If your alive to sin, your dead to God.
Salvation means life...sin means death.
Are u people saved???
Jesus Christ took sin upon Himself so you could be saved. HE is the sin bearer.
Doesnt anyone believe in the gosple anymore? |
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---duane on 5/6/08 |
Duane ... how do you divorce yuorself from th sin?
Who is it that beleives?
Who is it that sins?
It's the same body, the same brain,the same person.
Name me one Biblical saint who claims to have been without sin? |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/6/08 |
Duane ... Am I discussing with one person or two? Are you both D & DDM? I suspect yes, whereas elsehwere yuo seem to be two people, endorsing each other?
But in any case, you are you. You cannot divorce yourself from your sin. And that continues. You are not perfect. Your self righteous words here show that.
But when you fianlly come before God, your sins will not be counted against you, you will be made perfect.
That is what your confidence should be. |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/6/08 |
If Christ be IN YOU,(*meaning,you trully BELIEVE and are seeking HIS WILL) Your body is dead to sin (*meaning we are all born with sin,and are all appointed to die because of sin*)...but the spirit is Life because of righteousness,(*meaning,the righteouness that Jesus gives to you*)(through HIS death-that all who believe,will inherit eternal life.) |
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---Measongs on 5/6/08 |
Pt.1
John 5:
14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin NO more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
John 8:
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin NO more.
Heb. 10:
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, |
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/6/08 |
Pt.2
1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. |
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/6/08 |
Pt.3
1 Tim. 5:
20 Them that SIN rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
2 Pet. 2:
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that CANNOT cease from SIN, beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices, cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness, |
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/6/08 |
Pt.4
Romans 6:
1 What shall we say then? Shall we CONTINUE in SIN, that grace may abound?
2 GOD FORBID. How shall we, that are dead to SIN, live any longer therein?
Rom. 6:
6 Knowing this, that our OLD man is crucified with him, that the body of SIN might be destroyed, that HENCEFORTH we should NOT serve SIN.
7 For he that is dead is freed from SIN.
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/6/08 |
Pt.5
1 Cor. 15:
34 AWAKE to righteousness, and SIN NOT, for some have NOT the knowledge of God: I speak this to your SHAME.
1 Pet. 4:
1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath CEASED from SIN,
2 That he no longer should LIVE the rest of his time in the FLESH to the LUSTS of men, BUT to the WILL of GOD. |
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/6/08 |
Duane ... "anyone born of God cannot sin"
But you do sin!
Where does the Bible say you cannot sin? |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/6/08 |
DDM, this is amazing teaching. That anyone born of God cannot sin. What about backsliders. This kind of teaching almost makes me prefer Catholicism which encourages you to examine your conscience at night and confess all your daily sins, in case you die during your sleep. However, I know the RCC is false, but some of their ideas are correct. We sin daily, even without knowing it, from minute to minute, our thoughts etc. Do you not even look lustfully at a pretty woman. I simply do not believe you. |
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---frances008 on 5/5/08 |
I don't know duane, No were not the same people.
I've said most the stuff already on another Blog ? that got out of hand.
If you want to be a Good Sinner, You go for it, Best of luck good wishes and all that kinda stuff,Your in my prayers.
I'm not going to keep going in Circles W/scripture.
YLBD |
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/5/08 |
Alan,
Have u forgotten, you have been born again. You were not born again to sin, anyone born of God cannot sin. You were born again of the Spirit. You live in a body of sin and death, but your new birth is perfect and sinless. Your new identity is Christ in you.
Can you understand? This is your salvation.
The flesh will always sin, but you have been born anew, this is who u are. A saint..NOT a sinne |
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---duane on 5/5/08 |
Duane, do you understand that in the eyes of God, even your most righteous deeds are dirty rags. To Him, who is so Holy, we are filthy smelly arrogant, self-righteous, disgusting, hypocrites. We are, in short, sinners. That is our nature spiritually. We can try and be good. Then we are 'good sinners' or we can just go on being 'bad sinners'. But either way we are sinners by nature. |
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---frances008 on 5/5/08 |
The Bible says that mens hearts are 'desperately wicked'. It sounds hopeless. However, all the more should we appreciate the gift of the Son of God and after Him, the Holy Spirit. One bringing us a way out of the trap we are in, and the other showing us how to live for Christ. To say we are good is to deny the truth. To say we cannot attain perfection, does not mean we should not be trying our best to do so. |
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---frances008 on 5/5/08 |
So it seems that "---Duane_Dudley_Martin" is not the full name of "duane"
Is there a relationship between yuo, 'cos you both started here at much the same time?
It's quite confusing!! |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/5/08 |
Alan_What I'm saying is "once" a person comes to God and has been Washed by his Sons Blood(saved),
Then Willfully continues to do Evil,
Won't make it W/that attitude towards Sin.
I'm "Sure" theirs something in their that says:
It's better if you had NOT known the Ways of Righteousness and then turn back to your Old Ways,
I'm sure theirs another part that says Jesus will come upon a person Like that, As a Thief in the Night. |
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/5/08 |
Duane ... #2 .. You seem to be saying though that because you are "saved" you can't sin,
That means that whatever you do is OK, however much you hurt others or God.
That is the dangerous end of OSAS doctrine |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/5/08 |
Duane ... #3 have you consdered how discouraging your comments may be to baby Christians.
They know they still sin, and then there is you who says that if you are saved, you do not sin. (although you admit your flesh sins you claim "NO WAY do I sin!")
They will think when reading this from an established Christian that they can't possibly be saved, and may give up, because they can't be good enough to reach your standard of perfection |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/5/08 |
Rebecca: ... Alan you can find that verse in Romans 14:23.
I am familiar with that, but it does not answer my question really. Is it saying that Thomas was sinning whilst he had his doubts?
Is it saying for example aircraft are sinful, or that it is sinful tofly in them, or consume the produce that is transported by them? Because after all, an aircraft is not designed constructed or flown as a result of faith in God. |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/5/08 |
Duane ... "Saying Im a sinner would be denying the Cross"
No Duane ... It is saying I need the cross.
Saying you are not a sinner says that you don't need the cross.
Saying God does not count your sin against you and so you do not sin is a travesty ...
You do sin, but if you acknowledge that, God WILL NOT count it against you.
I suggest if you claim that you do not sin, God WILL count that against you. |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/5/08 |
I have created a Christianet chat account, so please feel free to send me a message at sueq7373. Thanks |
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---SusieQ on 5/5/08 |
.susieq, "But your wrongs are separating between you and your God, and your sins have hidden face from you, that he will not hear. Now we know that God hears not sinners: but if any person be a worshipper of God, and does his will, that person he hears. Wherefore by their fruits you all will know them." |
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---Eloy on 5/5/08 |
You can send me a private message now at sueq7373 on Christianet. Thanks. |
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---SusieQ on 5/5/08 |
Duane ... #1 .. You have not explained the contradiction between you two statements.
"Do I still sin? NO WAY"
"My flesh may do SINFUL deeds at times"
You are your flesh, for the time, being so if your flesh does sinful things, you sin. |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/5/08 |
Salvation means LIFE....Wages of sin means death...We cant be both sinner and saved. We either have life or death.
When will people realize and believe that Christ came to do away with sin so we can have salvation(life). IN HIM we are redeemed.
Repentance of sin WONT save anyone,because the flesh will sin again and again, BUT turning to Christ(repentance) WILL save you. |
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---duane on 5/5/08 |
Eloy, whatever you think of me I pray God's richest blessings on you. |
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---SusieQ on 5/5/08 |
susieq, you speak blasphemy. Good trees can not produce bad fruit, neither do bad trees bear good fruit. |
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---Eloy on 5/5/08 |
Rebecca D, I liked your last response. Bless you! :o) |
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---SusieQ on 5/4/08 |
A sinner is someone who sins. A saved person will continue to sin. So that person is a saved sinner I would think. God is merciful. Romans 11:32. |
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---SusieQ on 5/4/08 |
Stop strainimg gnats and swallowing camels! Be holy and Do good. Either be hot or be cold. Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make it corrupt and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. What fruit are you bearing? worldly fruit? sin? or Christ fruit, and righteousness. Whose child are you? God's or the devil's? Enough of this hypocrisy. If you are Christ's, then prove it and start living like it. You choose, You do the works of Christ, and forget the rest. |
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---Eloy on 5/4/08 |
In duanes defence:
Jesus told people he healed "to go and Sin NO more".
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. |
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/4/08 |
Alan,Rom 14:23 and Heb 11:6...Also, if God doesnt count sin against us, its because of the work of Christ.Now tell me why you call your self a sinner?..If sin is not counted against you, then there is no sin. We are justified....believe it. It is true, Christ came to do away with sin. We are not sinners anymore if we abide in faith.
Are u dead to sin? Have u been born again? Has the old man died? |
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---duane on 5/3/08 |
Duane: No one on this earth is without sin. For you to think you are without sin, is foolish thinking. The sins we've committed in the past are not held against us, only the unrepented sins are. If sin isn't held against us after being born again, then we no longer need Christ, we no longer need him to be an advocate for us. To believe different is ignorant and foolish. You seem self-righteous. READ, Pr 30:12, Jn 9:23-41,Ro 10:3,Gal 6:3. Alan you can find that verse in Romans 14:23. |
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---Rebecca_D on 5/3/08 |
duane ... another query, if I may? You say: .. "The bible says, anything not of faith IS sin"
i'm not familiar with that, where is it? What was the context?
I'm thinking of Thomas, who did not have full faith. But Jesus did not accuse him of being sinful. |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/2/08 |
The emphasis is not are we sinners Rom3:23 but are we fit in God's Estimation to be allowed to enter heaven.The only thing that will prevent this is SIN for nothing defiled enters Heaven.So our walk on this earth is to develop an aversion to sin and reach a stage of perfection No blemish.MHO. God's word too. |
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---Emcee on 5/2/08 |
duane ... I did not ask "are unbelievers sinners?"
I asked you, if you recall, "can you give scriptural for your statement that sinners are unbelievers?"
But now you say "Do I still sin? NO WAY"
I prefer Frances' honesty |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/2/08 |
duane ... Your statement are self contradictory:
at one point you say "Do I still sin? NO WAY"
Then a few lines ater you say "My flesh may do SINFUL deeds at times"
Thant my friend, is sinning, although as I first said to you: "You will of course not be judged by God to be a sinner when you come before Him", which is the same as your "God doesnt count it as sin against me" |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/2/08 |
duane ... You say, correctly .. "God doesnt count it as sin against me" ... but that shows that we do sin
The wonder of it is although we sin, God doesnt count it as sin against us |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/2/08 |
Duane ...
All blackbirds are black birds, but not all black birds are blackbirds |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/2/08 |
Alan,The bible says, anything not of faith IS sin. If your a unbeliever,(no faith) your a sinner. We are saved through faith.Do I still sin? NO WAY.. The bible says consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God. The bible says, Christ came to do away with sin. My flesh may do SINFUL deeds at times, but God doesnt count it as sin against me.Saying Im a sinner would be denying the Cross...We have been born again, believe it.
R U saint or sinner? cant be both. |
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---duane on 5/2/08 |
It's okay to be a sinner, at least to be a humble person who knows there is nothing righteous in them. Those are the kind of people Jesus loves. Not the ones who go boldly to the front pews and think they are righteous. Of course we have not got to deliberately sin. God won't be mocked. |
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---frances008 on 5/2/08 |
Unbelievers are sinners, yes. Sinners are unbelievers, no. No. Sinners are those who need Jesus, not self righteous who say they got it right and are going to Heaven under their own steam. |
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---frances008 on 5/2/08 |
Duane ... Do you sin?
I am sure you will say "I'm afraid I still sin"
You are then, a sinner, just as someone who runs is a runner.
You will of course not be judged by God to be a sinner when you come before Him. |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/1/08 |
Duane ... and leaving your theological semantics aside, can you give scriptural for your statement that sinners are unbelievers?
i don't quite follow yuor statement that Christ became sin. Is not Satan the ultimate pesonification of sin?
"Christ became sin" sounds a bit like a theological buzz-phrase, not meaning exactly what it says. |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/1/08 |
Alan,
If u say your a sinner, then u dont believe Christ became sin for you. We are saved through faith.We are saved saints of God, not saved sinners.
Christ came to do away with sin, HE was wounded for our transgressions. We must believe IN HIM to be justified. I truly believe in the work of the Cross. Sin is no longer counted against me. Im a Saint, not a sinner anymore. |
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---duane on 5/1/08 |
"A sinner is an unbeliever!"
Is there biblical justification of that statement/definition?
I sin ... does that mean I am an unbeliever? |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/1/08 |
A sinner is an unbeliever, we MUST believe on HIM to be saved. Jesus Christ bears the sins of the believer, therefore the believer is made righteous through Faith. |
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---duane on 4/29/08 |
We will always deal with the conflict between the Spirit and the Sinful nature but Jesus has overcome the world. We are being transformed and I as yet have not met a perfect Christian. I have seen Christians pop back from bouts with sinful lifestyles. God knows:) |
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---jody on 4/29/08 |
I recently submitted a blog question that the Moderator didn't post:
"Is it fun to SIN?"
Well, from all of the responses that I've gotten about helping my friend, I can answer my own question. Yes, sinning can be fun. I deceived myself into thinking that helping my friend "cheat" was only "helping" him. But, SIN is still SIN. GOD is not mocked. Galatians 6:7-10.
I REPENT of what I did and won't do that again. In school or anywhere. |
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---Augie on 4/28/08 |
Ephesians 2:20 "Christ Jesus himself being the CORNERSTONE,..."
1 Corinthians 3:11 "For no other FOUNDATION can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ".
Hebrews chapter 6, if you lay a foundation of your own with works/deeds or scholarly accomplishment, then 'repentance in Christ' becomes impossible. So do not rely on your own efforts for the "city of God" (Revelation 3:12). Repent of the apostasy of setting your own foundation. |
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---greg on 4/28/08 |
Augie, please don't let the overwhelming press you've received crush your communication with those who perceive you as a precious member in the Lord.
I'd hoped you taken at least the answers to your questions given as from those who'd hope to instruct your awareness to the glory of Jesus and nothing more.
Your question was candid, and shows you have nothing to hide, and I LOVE that! Thanks.
God Bless You, |
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---pharisee on 4/27/08 |
Whomever wrote the question: God, good, good, good, Point.>>>The life of the Saint lies in the Soul, while the life of the sinner goes no further than the body. Saints will go to heaven, eternal life, because of Righteousness.>>>Love to our bodies should make us hate sin.>>>Don't you love your bodies? Makes one wander with all the diseases going around. |
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---catherine on 4/26/08 |
Augie,
As has already been stated, you would have been more "help" to your friend by helping them understand the assignment better. As far as "fair" your teacher could have given you both a zero or incomplete on the assignment. Be thankful for what you received, and learn. |
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---tommy3007 on 4/26/08 |
Augie-You sinned against 'RIGHTNESS' (heaven), don't do it anymore (repent). You also sinned against the teacher by decieving the teacher (be glad the teacher is not giving you a worse punishment. EXCUSES that the teacher is mean are no good, no excuse for doing wrong is ever good.
Right is right and wrong is wrong (and never the twain shall meet).
Learn character, righteousness, justice, OBJECTIVE truth (no biases) and CONSCIENCE. |
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---greg on 4/26/08 |
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