While smoking, drinking, etc. may be considered bad habits and even unhealthful, God can and does use those that are imperfect.
For instance, the famous English evangelist Charles Haddon Spurgeon (Baptist) drank and smoked cigars. He even claimed he did it for the glory of God.
When D.L. Moody visited him and complained about his cigar smoking, the evangelist simply replied that his habit was probably no worst then being overly fat which Moody was. He did eventually quit smoking due to health problems.
He also decided to quit drinking because he felt he "needed to give up his Christian liberty in order to avoid leading others astray".
---Lee1538 on 2/25/10|
God will not dwell in an unclean temple.
Can you just visualize a so called christian person (he or she) that smokes & if the Holy-Ghost is in that person smoking, the Holy-Ghost is suffering the stink with, coughing - gagging - choking, grasping for a breath of clean air & saying I got to get out of this unclean person.
I stand in line at the bank & people with smoke stink in their hair, clothes etc & just about puts my lights out. Just think what it does to The Holy-Ghost !
---Lawrence on 2/25/10|
Yes, smoking is sin. Just as it is not expected of a child of God to commit suicide by any means or by taking poisons, so it is not expected of a child of God to be smoking because smoking is a very slow poison.
---Adetunji on 2/23/10|
Smoking is not a sin just as drinking intoxicating drink is not a sin. However, smoking is a sin to anyone who wants to live a holy life. It is very important that we don't defile the Temple of Living God (which is our body where the Holy Spirit resides). Our God is a Holy God - Leviticus 19: 1-2 'Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy.
For more information, please read Leviticus 15:31. Leviticus 10:9 talks about intoxicating drinks.
If there is anyone who has problem with smoking/drinking and wants to be closer to God, he/she should take this problem to God in prayer and God will surely remove the desire to smoke/drink completely from his/her life.
---Esther on 2/22/10|
The Bible says that "it is not what goes into the man which defiles him but what comes out of the man that defiles him".
---jody on 2/22/10|
I feel that right acts of the flesh are
filthy rags. Whether one smokes or not,
since all things are lawful but all things
aren't expedient, it will only be the power
and righteousness of our Heavenly Father
that sets the captives free. He is the
righteous one, in us, one day at a time.
Smoking is an outward thing. There are
things in a heart that can't be seen by
other humans. We are to judge not that we
won't be judged.
---julie on 11/27/08|
Anybody who thinks that since they are "righteous" the holy ghost can abide in them are forgetting that there is not one of us that has no sin, smoking, drinking,or cussing is a sin just like the sins of the righteous. Not one of us have the authority to say who will be going to hell, remember God will have mercy on who he will have mercy...it's not religion that will save us but our relationship with the Lord. Try stepping out of your denom for a second and meet the Lord, he is not there to condemn but to deliver.
---ruben5346 on 11/26/08|
Brothers and Sisters, there is no question that cigarettes hurt people, but just as we use verses to back our theories such as " do not defile the temple-us" we must also remember that we aren't supposed to judge, which means that things not specified in the bible- he will determine if it is a sin. Paul not only mentioned about the temple but also said in Romans 14:14 "I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus Christ that there is nothing unclean of itself, but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean" Just a thought. Peace
---ruben5346 on 11/25/08|
Remember, Paul wrote the Letters to the Corinthians, not Christ. I'm not condoning smoking, drinking or other degrading vices - nor am I saying that Christ did. I understand that Christs emphasis in the washing-hands story was not 'put whatever you want into your body' but 'consider others before you think, speak and act'. What I'm trying to get across is that everyone who partakes of damaging habits and claims to be filled with the Holy Spirit' cannot really be filled with the Spirit. If they were, wouldnt there be a natural tendency not to do such things? Our bodies are only temples of the Holy Ghost if we've allowed It to enter. But have we or are we only fooling ourselves?
---mary on 10/2/08|
Mary, OK got'cha. The cigarette in your mouth is not evil but the smoke coming out is. Ugh huh.....
---Elder on 9/30/08|
True Mary, but in I Corinthians chapter 3, verses 16-19, our physical bodies are referred to as the temples of the HOly Ghost, and we are warned not to defile them or we'll be destroyed. Jesus did refer to what spiritually defiles a person in the scripture reference you gave when a big deal was made about washing hands before eating not being a major issue in defilement.
---theresa on 9/30/08|
In Matthew 15 verses 10 and 11 Christ says that it's not what we put into our mouth but what comes out of it that makes us unclean. So actually, all the verbal judgements we make against other spiritual paths are what will cause us to lose His salvation. Being obsessed with the physical body is a distraction to our union with Christ. If we are truly Christian we will naturally not do these things as they are of the Devil. Actually it was paul in 1 Corinthians who said that the body was a temple, not Christ. The question we should be asking is: are we following the teachings of Paul or the teachings of Christ?
---mary on 9/28/08|
Ginger, Indeed I will. Papa God, I pray for Ginger. Lord, I lift her up into your presence Papa, and I ask you to take away from her this smoking. Do whatever it takes Papa to free her from this bondage. Intervene in her life Lord and give her clean appetites and clean desires to bring a smile to your face and your nod of Yes upon her life. Let her know the complete freedom in you, the clean high that comes only from one who surrenders every part of their being up to you. Bless her Lord as she gives up this smoking, as she knows it is right, and knows that she will be greatly blessed. Love her Lord and help her kick this dirty habit out of her life for good. Thank you Papa, always only in your name Lord Jesus, here I pray. Amen.
---Eloy on 9/23/08|
ginger...you can accomplish your goal.HIS grace is sufficient. I smoked for 33yrs. When the Lord helped me quit i was smoking a pack a day. In my younger days in the navy and after, i smoked as much as 2-3 packs a day. I set a date and asked the Lord to help me. I give thanks the Lord for taking that habit away. Have been smoke free since Jan.06, going on 2 yrs now. If it was up to me i would be smoking one now. Praise be to God that it is not up to me.
---JIM on 9/23/08|
okay fellas, being the mature christian that I am, I know all of these things. I guess you didn't notice where I said that I have gone from smoking a pack and a half a day to 3 whole cigarettes a day. Think on that. I used to smoke 30 or more cigarettes a day. God has helped me that far and he never leaves his work unfinished. I know he will help me with this last mile. When I think of all of the things God has cleaned up in my life I can't help but rejoice in Him. And I look to each new day for the things He will continue to do in my life. God bless you both, Eloy and Duane. Continue to pray for me!!
---ginger on 9/23/08|
.ginger, Duane is speaking the truth. Think about this, I know that Jesus hates smoking and having smoke blown into the air he breathes and in his face, and also smoking damages health: and we have no smoking in heaven. Now ask yourself, "How much do I love Jesus? If I really love him, should I continue to put the smoking before him?" If you really love Jesus, than ask him seriously in prayer to help you to quit that which he hates. And I promise you, if you are serious, then he will help you to quit. And you will be blessed, and you will not get a diseased body from smoking.
---Eloy on 9/22/08|
Ginger,I never condemn anyone, It seems most will condemn for other reasons but seems we all have excuses for what we cant or dont want to give up. (I was making a point.) I have sinful habits as well but all we can do is try to do better, its a work in progress. Thank God for Christ, our wrong actions are not counted against us. Keep trying, you will overcome.
---duane on 9/22/08|
That was a mean and un-Christian thing to say Duane. Lets see how well your walk is with God. Have you told even little white lie and had to repent for it since you have been a Christian? Who are you to say such things? I ask for prayer knowing that I am your sister in Christ, and instead I get Condemnation from you? That is not very Christian of you but I forgive you. I happen to have an advocate with the Father that prays FOR me since you refuse to. He happens to be Jesus Christ. God Bless you brother.
---ginger on 9/22/08|
Those who know to do good and do it not, to him it is sin.
---duane on 9/17/08|
Paul says that our bodies are the temple of the Lord. Anything that we put into it that can harm it, is a sin. I am a smoker and a Christian. Yes I come under condemnation for it and I pray to the father that he continue to help me quit. I am blessed to say that I am down to 3 cigarettes a day from 1 1/2 packs a day. It is not different than any other addiction to drugs. We must remember that they contain nicotine. I ask that all of my brothers and sisters here and everywhere pray for me that I continue in Christ and to quit smoking.
---ginger on 9/17/08|
I am an ex-smoker of 3 1/2 years. Smoking is a sin. Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and the bible does say that we can defile it (with fornication). If it can be defiled by unclean things, then smoking would be one of them...it causes health problems which can lead to an inability for you to fulfill the purposes for which God created you if you die an early death. Overeating is as much as sin as smoking. We should be good stewards of the temple of the Holy Spirit.
---Pam on 9/2/08|
Sin causes death. From the overflow of the heart a man speaks, words of faith heal a man, doubt and unbelief deceive a man to his demise.
This is hard to accept for the religious, a doctrine of man - vipers!
---Prophet on 8/27/08|
I never commandeered/usurped the authority from The Lord to judge/decide what is a sin, but since the word "cigarette" does not appear in scripture at all, I do not wish that you should receive a penalty (spiritual or otherwise) and will be your advocate before God (even if the word was in scripture and listed as a sin, I still would not wish a penalty on you).
---more_excellent_way on 8/8/08|
Smoking is a sin because its a foul addiction that causes all types of disease. There is no smoking section in heaven. I'm not saying a butt smoker wont make it through the gates but why chance it. I have quit for a year now, it was one of the hardest things i have ever done in my life. Drinking is a sin if you do it to get drunk. if i recall timothy needed alcohol (wine) to help with his stomack problems. A little wine at dinner or communion is fine. Thats a glass or even less, really theres no point in drinking it. If you are a recovering alcoholic don't drink anything at all. dont let the demons talk.
---Greg on 7/10/08|
Drinking alcohol is not a sin. It isn't in the Bible. Drinking TOO MUCH alcohol is a sin. Drinking too much too long is unhealthy to the body.
Eating too much, too long is unhealthy to the body as well. The body is a temple to be taken care of.
If someone can not stop drinking after a glass, yes, then he should not drink.
But, because he can't stop,and I can stop, does this make it a sin for me? NO. I can stop.
My problem is eating too much.
Just because I shouldn't have a slice of apple pie after supper, doesn't mean a 16 yrs old football player can't have the slice of apple pie. He can burn off the apple pie faster than I.
---Nicole on 7/9/08|
Drinking alcohol is a sin. It is proven to be unhealthy to the body, especially the liver. More people are killed by drinkers every day. The body is a temple to be taken care of.
God Bless You
---James on 7/9/08|
Smoking,drinking,cursing,over-eating,even being a sports fenatic and other defiles the temple. Doing such things as the above and Not being in Church services defiles also.
---Lawrence on 7/3/08
I agree with all except drinking. JESUS DRANK wine, not grape juice. Bible states of people being drunk. Those on Pentecost were accused of being drunk. Acts 2:15 These people are not drunk,..
Try if you wish. You can not get drunk on grape juice. Grape juice will make you very sick to your stomach if too much is taken, but not drunk.
Getting drunk is a sin as Over eating. But, eating period isn't. So drinking alcohol isn't a sin as well. No where in the Bible states drinking is a sin.
This sin was made up 500 yrs old.
---Nicole on 7/5/08|
Smoking,drinking,cursing,over-eating,even being a sports fenatic & other defiles the temple. Doing such things as the above & Not being in Church services defiles also. The Holy Ghost (It is The Holy-Ghost in scripture & Not the holy-spirit as tr-ministers say)will Not dwell in an unclean temple. Thank you.
---Lawrence on 7/3/08|
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Smoking may be a sin. Drinking alcoholic beverages may be a sin. Drunk driving is considered more of a sin since you can harm yourself and others. Eating fast food may be a sin as it is proven unhealthy and can cause heart and other health conditions. Eating too much could be a sin as it is unhealthy. Driving a car omits poisons into the air which is unhealthy. The list goes on including going to war. I do believe that God gives us the choice to make and we will have to answer for it someday.
---James on 7/2/08|
smoking is a sickness. It is a bad habit that is very addictive. So addictions like this rule you and own you and call you.
Therefore, if you can not break free, you are being controlled...And it is not of God.
Therefore one can conclude the devil has his hooks in you. Addictions of this sort are of the devil
---lisa on 5/25/08|
I make no excuses for the times I spent chain smoking as a child, I was given cigarettes by my mother to as she put it light on the stove by puffing it. Eventually it became a habit I wanted because it made you look big and most children we smoking. When I got to 26 I decided I smoked for the wrong reasons and with my second son on the way I vowed never to put another fag in my mouth after 15 years of smoking 5,10 a day I gave up.
---Carla5754 on 5/23/08|
Smoking is a habit and one you can kick if you want to but as long as you keep kidding yourself It's needed (why on earth for?) I just can't understand, It suppressed my appetite,make me eat less, slowed me down,gave me a bad cough and always ,smelt stink on my clothes, and I was ashamed to smoke in the company of non smokers. Thank God I trusted in him to Stop the filthy habit. I like the prodigal son ( I came to myself and realised the truth).
---Carla5754 on 5/23/08|
habit...addiction..about the same..go and change a habit and tell me it is easy..I do not think so. We are the temple of the Holy Ghost...but I think we focus on changing people from the outside in..impossible! Renew your mind with the Word of God..change the inside with the power of God and that power will enable you to change those nasty habits/addictions!
---melanie on 5/23/08|
Abel, I like your answer and you explained it very well, especially the part in the end where you say, you will suffer the consequences. We cannot change when we are born or when we will die. That is written already. But we can help in what condition we live our lifes. Whether we want a tank of air with us and also whether we want to be a part of someone's else's life condition. For our decisions effect others.
---Mark_V. on 5/23/08|
Rebecca ... You have been saying for some time now that you need to quit.
Please, for yuor own sake and for yuor family ... redouble yuor efforts and yuor pryers for God's help in this
---alan_of_UK on 5/23/08|
Smoking is not a habit, but an addiction. I smoke. I need to quite for many reasons. But I don't believe it is a sin for a person to smoke. I don't smoke in people's homes that don't smoke and in my church parking lot. I am not ashamed, but it is all about respect. The bible says to work out your own soul salvation. Smoking won't send a person to hell. It is between that person and God. Just like everything else.
---Rebecca_D on 5/22/08|
Yes, because it defiles the body with sickness and cause addiction. The bible says the boby is where the Lord lives. We should present ourselves a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God.
---Denia5793 on 5/20/08|
Look at it this way, is using heroin, cocaine, or marijuana a sin? Same goes with alcohol and tobacco. BUT, it's not our place to judge anyone who smokes. That is between them and God. God still loves them, so should we.
---Todd on 5/20/08|
Smoking can become a sin if done all the time you can get addicted to it there is a spirit of negatine which you need to be set free from.
---Alison on 5/19/08|
Anything that harms your body is a sin.I have a place on my heart that is dead because of smoking.
---Betty on 5/17/08|
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy, for the temple of God is holy, which temple "ye" are.
---MpcTruth on 5/16/08|
smoking is a sin because u cant do something which you know forsure that will destroy your life e.g smoking do damage our lungs as a result it leads to death because the lungs are damaged,so to our God smoking is a sin cos is something that destroys peoples life
---Getru5665 on 5/16/08|
i do not condem a christian who does smoke but ifand when the opportunity arises ido remind them if wewant the LORDS FULL BLESSING then it i up to the person to decide and also reind them that our bodies a THE LORDS TEMPLE
---greg on 5/16/08|
I used to smoke for years myself. I finally quit over a year ago. I never ever want to do that again. Yes, to me God convicted me in my spirit that it was a sin for me to smoke. Every time I smoked one, I felt convicted. I could think of many reasons to stop smoking, but only one or two reasons to continue smoking. I was in constant battle with God about this evil in my life.Yes, it was wrong. I could no longer continue in sin, so I stopped. I have been at peace since then.
---Ron on 5/16/08|
You cannot equate eating food to smoking cigarettes. Cigarettes contain potentially harmful ingredient's that suppress the appetite plus contain cancer causing agents. Not to say some food contains harmful substances the difference is without food your as good as dead food is necessary for life. Smoking you could not only cause yourself serious health problems but also end up killing yourself and others around you too, it is NOT essential for life.
---Carla5754 on 5/15/08|
Some of the answers to this question, act like this verse from John 1:29,"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God,WHICH TAKETH AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD." Was never written!!!!!!
---Mima on 5/15/08|
since the first moment you receive Jesus as your lord and savior in your life all your sins are forgiven thats the grace of God remember your actions don't make you righteous in front of God only the sacrifice that Jesus did on the cross is what makes you righteous in front of God. In the other hand you will suffer the physical consequences of your actions pray to God to help you quit God bless you.
---abel on 5/15/08|
If you are saved you most certainly will not go to hell even if you do smoke. But, smoking defiles the body (the temple of the Holy Spirit) and God will destroy it. Jesus paid for all you sins....and yes smoking is a sin. If you are not saved, get saved and let God work on you overcoming sin. With Him, All things are possible.
---jane on 5/14/08|
Yes it is your body is a temple of God. IF you smoke you will go to hell. You will feel right at home with the heat and smoke.
You must stop your sin. Pray God forgives you.
---john on 5/14/08|
I once heard a statement to that effect at a lecture about C. S. Lewis. I'm not sure if it's a comment that Lewis had originally made himself, however - I remember the comment, but it was a long time ago, so the circumstances are a bit vague in my mind.
---StrongAxe on 5/14/08|
anything that takes us away from God is a sin. if we uphold something in higher regard, and it comes between us and God, like an idol, it is sin. overeating, idolizing your car, family, gossiping = sin. God can deliver us from sin through Jesus by taking our sins when he died on the cross. we can always turn from sin and run to Him. sin is sin no matter what it is that keeps us from God. Romans 3:23
---la on 5/13/08|
Smoking is a bad, nasty habit..you won't go to hell smoking but you may get there quicker :)
---melanie on 5/12/08|
well, if smoking is a sin, because of harming the body, then i guess suffing your face at the local buffet after sunday service is too. I do believe that it is something that can become more important that God. There are many things that can harm the Temple of God not just food. IMO, let the Lord tell you. I use to smoke, its been 12yrs.
---Michael on 5/11/08|
Just A thought
If Smoking is a sin,then anyone who smokes is comdemned to the lake that burns with fire christian or not according to the pollls at least in the USA. what about the cancer patient who knew about the chemicals he worked with and did it anyway or the heart transplant patient who knew he could die either way. ARE all of us to quick to condemn any one who doesn't agree with us?
---willow on 5/10/08|
yes, smoking defiles our temple for God's Holy SPirit.
---john on 5/10/08|
If you are saved how can you speak life to the unsaved smoking breathe out uncertain death in the next breath.
Can a river run both polluted and pure water together without being it contaminated?.
---Carla5754 on 5/9/08|
In answer to your question...I don't believe that smoking is a sin but truly if we love GOD and we love ourselves why would we want to infect our lungs with such toxins. The world and it's air are already filled with stuff why make it hard for yourself. The bible clearly states that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit and so as the spirit dwells in us we should take care of our temples amen? kuule3944
---kuulei on 5/9/08|
Augie:It was your car you had every right to set the rules.He chose to walk instead, while lighting a cigarette His loss your Gain No sin.IMHO. The sin was his for being discourteous.
---Emcee on 5/8/08|
Smoking is a sin, because our body is God's temple and we are required to take care of it, and also because it harms others. Second hand smoke, that i breathed in the 18 years i lived at home has ruined my health to the point i'm disabled. My dad died of cancer from smoking, and my grandfather's lungs collapsed and he had a 10% lung capacity as he slowly suffocated to death over a period of years b/c of smoking. There is no benefit to smoking whatsoever.
---Cassie on 5/8/08|
Thanks for being supporting of my NOT allowing cigarette smoking in my car. I'm ALLERGIC to cigarette smoke. I think that that is a good enough reason to NOT allow cigarette smoking in my car.
Several people told me that I was very "rude" for acting the way that I did. Oh, Really? I told them that they can give that man, and his cigarette smoke, a ride home the next time. However, The man never came back to our church. Maybe he found a smoker-friendly church.
---Augie on 5/8/08|
The only sin against the body is fornication according to the Bible. The bible does not mention much about addiction other than saying that we should avoid using too much wine. It does not mention smoking as it does over-eating(glutney). I suppose that if one has faith to smoke, that it wouldn't be a sin.
---jody on 5/8/08|
You were not obligated to take the man home. You volunteered. You are free to set the conditions on who rides in your car and how.
You were offering to do the man a favor. If he preferred smoking to getting a ride home, that's his choice, and his problem, NOT yours.
---StrongAxe on 5/8/08|
Whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. Romans 14:23. It is not something for others to decide for you. Frying food in lard could just as easily be seen as sinful. God is merciful. Romans 11:32.
---SueQ7373 on 5/7/08|
I consider smoking cigarettes to be a "nasty" habit that "isn't good" for anyone, and can be "very bad". Several of my relatives, and friends, have died from smoking. I just hated their dying the way that they did, but smoking was their own choice.
This "nasty" habit is a sin if you think that it is. Personally, I consider smoking to be a form of suicide. Slowly killing yourself. Self murder. Therefore, I think that smoking is a sin. Exodus 20:13
---Augie on 5/7/08|
I dislike cigarette smoke so much that I don't allow active smokers to ride in my car.
I was asked to give a visitor to my church a ride home. I agreed and the gentleman got in my car. He pulled out a cigarette and started to "light up". I immediately told him that I don't allow any smoking in my car. The guy looked at me and said that he would walk home. I could see him "lighting up" as he walked away.
Did I sin by not allowing poisonous cigarette smoke in my car?
---Augie on 5/7/08|
There's no "definite" answer to this type of Question. The sin is not in the smoking ,per se,but in it's destructiveness to the body. Caffeine is also "addictive" . Do you put yourself in harm's way? Skydive? Downhill ski? Scuba dive? Hunting? Race(vehicles)? Sin? Maybe!
---1st_cliff on 5/7/08|
Yes, as is over eating consuming too much alcohol, driving too fast for the road you are on etc. Anything that harms this body but which would have been preventable if we'd used common sense, obeyed man's laws and God's laws is a sin.
---RitaH on 5/7/08|
Yes, anything that we are aware that doing it is self destruction of our life is sin,nicotine is well known to be very much harmful to our health, and our body is the temple of the holy sprit.
---Joshua_Munyandinda on 5/7/08|
Absolutely, putting poison into your bloodstream is evil.
What's further the premature destruction of the lungs lowers our capacity to breathe the way God intended.
Then there's the chemical influence on the brain, not a big one, definitely not worth the cough and cancer risk. The question is how many times have you "had to" have a cig when you were supposed to be living the life?
Worst of all you make rich those who have no conscience who make money off of death.
---pharisee on 5/7/08|
Smoking doesn't have any benefits, even if you can maintain your weight.
Through the blue haze, no nutrition, used as way to remain skinny, eventually smoking destroys you. That is a sin.
---lisa on 5/7/08|
It's a slow to moderate poisoning of the body.
It will take your lungs, stomach cancer is common in smokers, throat and mouth cancer.
There are no benefits to the smoker or those who have to endure their habit. Secondhand smoke is dangerous to all around the smoker.
It is a selfish sin. A sin that leads to death of the smoker and 2nd hand smoke that takes the lives of those around them.
---lisa on 5/7/08|
Smoking is highly addictive, like alcohol.
Smoking doesn't kill behind the wheel like alcohol does, but it is slow and painful death.
Most smokers believe that they can escape the dangers until they end up carrying that oxygen tank around like a second lung. Most smokers believe they are immune from the diseases and sickness that comes.
I worked with a woman who was a chain smoker.
---lisa on 5/7/08|
She could barely sit still, was outside constantly for a "smoke".
She is now dying at the age of 47.
She used smoking to control her weight, smoking and drinking coffee like there was no tomorrow.
We couldn't go anywhere for lunch unless smoking was allowed. If I wanted her company, I had to sit through all the smoke being blown in my face like a mosquito sprayer.
---lisa on 5/7/08|
I liked her, so I would endure it. She had to have those "smokes".
Afterwards, I had to immediately throw my clothes in the washer or take them to the cleaners. The smell of smoke was so strong on my clothes, they could stand up in the corner on their own. I had to wash or get them out of the house.
---lisa on 5/7/08|
I liked her, so I was willing to accommodate her smoking knowing that one day it would overcome her. It has now.
I used to plead with her to no avail, she was so addicted to tobacco.
She would rather have a cigarette and maintain her size 4 than eat a decent meal. She would watch me eat and have smokes and coffee for lunch.
I think she was pretending to eat what I was having. Smokers who smoke to maintain weight tend to become anorexic as well.
---lisa on 5/7/08|