There appear to be three main motives for punishment
a ... revenge ... not valid
b ... to discourage crime ... valid
c ... to prevent repetition (and thus protect the public)... valid
How can we protect the innocent from murderers and rapists?
Capital punishment is a strong deterrent, and is the only guaranteed way of preventing repetition, apart from very costly permanent incarceration ... which is never that, for a "life sentence" often means release in a few years, and we have numerous repeat offenders of horrific crimes.
Our judges when imposing the death penalty, said "May God have mercy on your soul" ... recognising the point that Manny is making.
---alan8566_of_UK on 1/30/09|
These murderers have done terrible crimes, no question about it. So if you kill them, you have sentenced them to eternal punishment in hell because of the sins they've committed and you've not given them any chance to REPENT.
Why do you not want to give any man a chance to repent and be saved by God? If, instead of killing him, we just keep these murderers in jail where they cannot do society anymore harm, is that bad? Are you a christian? or are you a believer of the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth"? Would killing these sinners make you more christian and more righteous in the sight of God?
God wants all men to be saved (1Tim.2:3-4). -- What do you want?
---manny on 1/29/09|
Chris, and Wendell. You are missing my point guys.
Firstly, Chris. Am i saying that we should just let these murderers do what they want without enforcing the law? NO. I've said it so many times. Am i saying we should not judge -- No, you misunderstood my point. We are judging them because we're "penalizing" them for their crime. But it should not be a death penalty.
The judgment i am saying that we have no right to do is to take the life of any man. If you kill this murderer, it's a final thing. You are not giving him any chance at all to change (whether he will change or not, only God knows).
---manny on 1/28/09|
No, because the death penality is not used in rare cases. Man had become god.
---catherine on 1/28/09|
Reading through these blogs, I tend to agree with Chris here. And by the way Manny, you seem to have purposely left off the important part of Chris' statement in order to make him look mean, when it seems he was being correct. All he said was that the more harsh the punishment, the better that punishment is as a deterent. Sounds like common sense to me. I know I would be a lot less likely to do something if there was a death penalty, than if I was to be whipped with a wet noodle. As to being asked not to judge others, Chris' interpretation is the only logical one that I can see, because life is full of choices. The bible even says "choose you this day", but choices are meaningless without judging what/who is good and bad.
---Wendell on 1/28/09|
Chris, if i may just add (after re-reading your post on 11/10/08) "..the more severe punishment the better..."
Your words are full of anger. Remember, Mat.5:44 "love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."
But am i saying that we should just let these criminals be..? No. But as 1Pet.3:9 said: "Not rendering evil for evil..."
The murderer did evil (he killed).... do we answer back also with "evil" (by killing him that killed)?
I pray that God grant you further understanding and faith in His words and wisdom. Peace!
---manny on 11/25/08|
Christians should definately support the death penalty.That`s one reason why our prisons are over crowded.Crimnials know there`s a good chance a smart lawyer will get `em off with a slap on the wrist .There`s no fear of the law anymore.
Gangs are taking over the streets in many cities because they know they can.As a result of the last election, things will only get worse.Liberal Judges will pass more laws to protect them even more.The President Elect is one of the most liberal candidates ever.The Bible says we`ll have to flee to the mountains in the last days. That`s upon us right now.God is our only hope.
---Dan on 11/24/08|
I still think you lack understanding. You use the argument,"who are we to judge". Obviously you don't believe your own argument. You are willing to apply law, justice and judgement until it comes to the worst criminals (murderers) and then you whip the "who am I to judge" nonsense out of your bag. You can't have it both ways. Either we have a right as a society to a reasonable criminal justice system or we don't. If we do, it requires judgements, and the laws, judgements and punishments actually become more important to have in place and enforce the more horrible the crime. To back away from judgement and justice when it confronts the greatest evil is like letting Satan win, when he can do the greatest damage.
---Chris on 11/24/08|
I only responded to Grant's comment that it is childish to say "who are we to judge" or "only God can take a life."
Let's follow Grant's line of thinking: If it is childish to say "only God can take a life" SO in effect you're saying you are mature because you ignored God's power and take into your own hands the life of another man. Is that being mature?
Again, I'm not saying we should let these criminals roam the streets freely, they should be put behind bars because they made terrible crimes, but their lives is not ours to take. Only God can take a life because it was His to begin with.
---manny on 11/24/08|
Did i say that we should just let these criminals roam free? Actually, in my first post on this question I said that we have to have a good, honest, responsive system -- from the police officers, to the judges to the penal institutions. A system that should (ideally) be free from any kind of corruption.
What i am against is the death penalty. As i said, who are we to judge that these people will not change and therefore we should take their lives. In doing so, we are in effect saying that we know better than God. The fact that they are still alive MAY mean that God may still have plans for him -- so if we take this criminals life aren't we preempting God's plans? I hope you get my point.
---manny on 11/23/08|
If we take the "do not judge" route you speak of, then we must do away with all laws and all punishments (not just for big issues like murder). While we are at, we would have to stop judging who to marry, who to vote for, who to babysit our kids, who to go to for advice, etc.. Oh, and you would even have to stop judging who is and isn't appropriately using the bible, which means you will have to stop judging others even as to whether their beliefs and actions are biblical. And once you can't judge someone else as being wrong for beliefs that contradict yours, it means your beliefs are of no value and have no standing.
---chris on 11/20/08|
Chris, it's not about feling sorry for murderers. It's about doing God's will and not the will of man.
And Grant, it's not childish to say "who are we to judge." -- it's biblical, therefore if you are a TRUE CHRISTIAN then you have to be biblical.
And while you might say we effectively take away lives, it should not be a cause for TRUE christians to follow the norms of the world but remain steadfast in the words of God.
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord." (Rom.12:19
Let God do justice because His justice is definitely far better than the justice of men.
---manny on 11/17/08|
YES. As a christian I support justice. It is simple and godly justice to carefully consider the evidence and when necessary carry out the appropriate punishment. Some childishly argue "who are we to judge" or "only God can take a life". But we effectively take away lives everyday a little at a time, by having people waste their lives watching murderers and make people waste away their lives to pay the taxes necessary to watch over murderers. God in the O.T. not only allowed but commanded that executions be done. Though Christ spoke against the problems of "eye for an eye" mentality on a personal relationship level, he was not talking about abandoning all punishments or justice.
---Grant on 11/10/08|
The death penality in clear cut murder cases is merely what murderers deserve. Capital punishment is not a deterent? Give me a break. For any half reasonable person punishments are a deterent and the more severe the punishment the better it is as a deterent. Secondly, even if it's not a deterent to others, it's the ultimate deterent to the one punished. The punished person in this case will never kill again. Remember that every year murders murder several people behind prison bars, its just that we don't care because they are murdering other murderers. Also remember that every year there are several prison escapees, and we often hear of the murders they quickly commit. Stop feeling so sorry for murderers. Start caringr more for the innocent.
---chris on 11/10/08|
We need good laws. We need good law enforcement. We need good judges and good juries. I think that capital punishment is so final that it should be used for only the worst crimes (like premeditated murder) and only when there is absolutely no room for doubt. Wasn't it Christ that said of some criminal types that "it would be better for them if a millstone were tied around their neck and they were drowned in the depths of the sea"? Sounds like capital punishment to me and it seems that Christ was simpathetic with the victims (the little ones) and not the criminals. Sometimes we mistakenly allow our good heartedness to be used by those who are evil in an effort to get us to be more tolerant and less judgemental about evil.
---Sandi on 11/10/08|
bruce, brother, that is why I said a true Christian. Christ is Love. If we show love and do not condemn, we will not sin. Walk in the Spirit. We are also speaking of the USA not another country.
I agree as usual with kath too
Paul is the perfect example of Christians having to follow the law of the land.
Christ said himself "Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's".
Mima says God is still the deciding factor and she too is right.
God is always in charge.
---ginger on 10/21/08|
Hi Kathr, my argument isn't against grace. It is against the death penalty. In any case David avoided it while still imposing it on others as king. Rather hypocritical, don't you think? God bless!
---johannes on 10/21/08|
As for "and yey for and eye" read Matt. 5 where Jesus condemns this concept of "justice".
As for "We know a true Christian would not commit a crime to be given the death penalty." Realy? Well that depends on the country you live in or the governmenet you are subject to. There are countries where you are subject to the death peneatly if you are caught witnessing about your faith in Christ.
---Bruce5656 on 10/21/08|
***King David murdered Uriah in order to steal his wife Bathsheba. According to Mosaic law he should have been executed. Why that exception? Because the rich and powerful usually seem to avoid punishment.
---johannes on 10/20/08***
As Paul teaches us what the Gospel IS, he makes a statement in Romans 4.....David saying...
Blessed are those who's SINS are forgiven, whom GOD will not impute sin.
johannes, isn't it wonderful that the Gospel of Grace and forgivness is actually something the poor have no problem with.
It's the Rich and Powerful who have a problem swallowing this one!!!
---kathr4453 on 10/21/08|
Hi Kathr! Perhaps you have a point. Perhaps, too, Paul decided to excuse himself from avoiding being of the world out of expediency. He could be like that. God bless you!
---johannes on 10/21/08|
All people(Christians included) have a right to express themselves by voting. However regardless of how we vote it is God who decides the outcome. It is God who raises up Kings and takes Kings down.
---mima on 10/21/08|
***If we are supposed to be in the world but not of the world, should we vote? Isn't voting "of the world"?
---johannes on 10/20/08***
I know when Paul was thrown into a Roman prison and beaten, he stood up to the Roman guards and demanded his rights under Roman Law. When the Guards found out he was a Roman Citizen, they were afraid.
Why, because as a citizen of Rome, he had legal rights a foreigner did not have. Due process!!! It had nothing to do with the Law of Moses, but laws set down by Caesar.
Of coarse Christians should vote for laws,and those who uphold them.
---kathr4453 on 10/21/08|
King David murdered Uriah in order to steal his wife Bathsheba. According to Mosaic law he should have been executed. Why that exception? Because the rich and powerful usually seem to avoid punishment.
---johannes on 10/20/08|
No, Christians do not sin. The line 'em up and shoot 'em down is antiChrist...woops, I shot a Christian by mistake. We are to minister life, not death.
---Eloy on 10/20/08|
Jesus said we still have to obey the laws of the land. This has not changed. The law says for us to make changes in the law, we have to vote. If you are not willing to stand up for what you believe in, then sit down and stop complaining. All it takes is one voice. Jesus was one and look what HE did. If we have Christ in us, He that is in us is greater than he that is in the world. We have not been given the spirit of fear.
I don't know about anyone else but I believe with all my heart that if Christians stood together and really voted for what they believe in instead of just complaining and doing nothing, we could get something done.
---ginger on 10/20/08|
Ginger, I don't think Lot lived in a Democracy or Theocracy.
However, is a democracy Biblical? A Theocracy is not a democracy. Israel under teh Law of Moses was not a democracy...but at Theocracy.
Is the OT Theocracy to Israel now imposed on Gentile Nations.
Well some seem to believe it was on America.
However, my understanding of America is freedom of worship through freedom of Conscience.
A Mormon is FREE to worship his god, too!
Unless we start a NEW idea called the Moral Majority.....Mormons, Christians, Catholics, Islam, etc, all coming together under the guise of MORALITY...one thing we can all agree on. But is that Biblical?
BE ye separate!
---kathr4453 on 10/20/08|
If we are supposed to be in the world but not of the world, should we vote? Isn't voting "of the world"?
---johannes on 10/20/08|
We are suppose to obey the law of the land.
We as Christians will not be held accountable for the laws that are passed and upheld in the land.
"Render to Ceasar what it Ceasar's". Jesus said this. He wasn't just speaking of paying our taxes. Was Lot held acountable for Sodom and Gomorrah? No he was not.
That is why we vote, If you do not like the laws, then vote for someone who will change them. These are the laws for voting. Have the laws changed according to the laws of the land. That is our duty as citizens. But our first is to God. By doing things correctly, we can affect change. Since we oppose abortion, then vote into office people who will change the law. The same goes for the death penalty.
---ginger on 10/20/08|
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Now, I'd like you to meditate on this last statement.
Will anti-Christ enforce Law? The Mosaic Covenant, not only on us, but the whole world? Is there a possibility that will be what he uses as his authority. Remember anti-Christ here means an imitation of Christ....not a blatant opposition to Christ....but has a blatant opposition to the finished work of Christ.
No Rest means works and those who worship the beast have NO REST.
THIS is the danger of Replacement Theology. This is the danger of those who teach we are still under Law.
It will come back to bite many!
How many do we see following LAW, and not Grace.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/08|
(1) I do not think that the Death Penalty should be imposed, because with this law we are effectively preventing any chance for the criminal to repent and change. Who are we to judge or to say that a person will never change? Even Paul (or Saul as he was known before) committed very grave crimes - persecuting the followers of Christ even unto death, yet God gave him mercy and changed him. Only God has the right to take our lives because it is in fact His and it is His to take away when he wants to. By putting a man to the death we are in effect saying we know better than God. Why? Because the fact that the convict is still alive may mean that God could still have a plan for him. Who are we now to say, "it's time for you to die."?
---manny on 10/20/08|
(2) Of course, i'm not saying that we should just let this criminals roam the streets and freely do their evil ways. There needs to be a law to catch them so as to keep the people safe. But i think that rather than a death penalty, a "lifetime imprisonment" would be better. At least you're giving the criminal a chance to reflect on his ways and perhaps find God, at the same time keeping the populace safe. The next step then, is to make sure that the entire judicial system of our governments - from the law enforcers, to the judges, to the penal agencies are reliable, responsive to the needs of the people, and free from corruption in any level.
---manny on 10/20/08|
***The law of Moses was set up to show us what sin is, right?
That is why we have judges, to impose these laws.
The law says "an eye for an eye"
This is God's Law and must be obeyed by those living in sin.***
Do we as a Nation live under the Mosaic Covenant literally?
If the Law was to show us our sin....where in our government and courts is the Law of Grace also presented....leading to salvation?
Can a land mandate all to Love the Lord thy God with all his mind heart soul?
So then, why aren't more in prison?
---kathr4453 on 10/18/08|
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If capital punishment deterred certain human activity, then Jesus' crucifixion should have deterred the spread of Christianity
---johannes on 10/17/08|
Ginger, the law of conscience was put in all men. China does not have the Mosaic Law in their courts, however the Law of moral conscience of right and wrong is evident.
If one gets caught stealing, one gets their hand cut off. They obviously KNOW what stealing means without the Law of Moses.
Read Romans 1 & 2.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/08|
The law of Moses was set up to show us what sin is, right?
That is why we have judges, to impose these laws.
The law says "an eye for an eye"
This is God's Law and must be obeyed by those living in sin.
Christ coming did not replace these laws.
The new commandments given by Christ are specific to Christians. By Christians living the laws Christ did, this shows those in sin Gods light and helps them to convert and follow Christ.This conversion causes less crimes to be committed.
We know a true Christian would not commit a crime to be given the death penalty.
Food for thought- Christians are not suppose to judge those still in sin.
---ginger on 10/17/08|
Let me start off by saying that I've yet to come to a hard position on the issue, though I continue to lean toward the 'no DP' side.
"...if we used your argument, we would then have to assume that man is then powerless to do anything"
I don't see how my argument implies this. Basically, what I said was that the right to end a human's life belongs to God. My argument is only relevant to decisions about killing a human being.
---Bobby3 on 10/6/08|
"God expects us to set up just laws..."
Agreed. I'm not against having laws/penalties to keep order. The argument does not imply that we abandon laws and penalties. I do believe that we, as Christians, should carefully consider the nature of the laws in place. The question then becomes: Is the DP absolutely necessary in keeping order in our modern society? And shouldn't we avoid using such an extreme penalty if at all possible? Our society's circumstances differ from that of ancient Israel's, and for them a death penalty would have been one of only a few options to keep order.
---Bobby3 on 10/6/08|
Christians believe that all things are in God's hands and if we used your argument, we would then have to assume that man is then powerless to do anything good or ill, just or unjust. No, God may be the final judge, but he expects us to be as wise. I believe God expects us to set up just laws and enforce them. I also believe that biblical teachings show through God's own example and biblical law that justice requires the execution of a murderer. I believe that Christ's teachings were directed to our personal actions, not to our governmental justice systems. Personally we may be required to forgive, but it is madness to assume that there should be no societal laws or penalties.
---doug on 10/6/08|
Bobby3: The DP, as carried out by government legal systems, is not for the purpose of revenge. Rather, it is to serve justice in cases where heinous crimes have been wrought against law abiding society. We can do nothing apart from what God authorizes.
I most definitely agree, only God's "vengeance" is just. I also believe God frequently imposes a consequential vengeance against lawless people by use of hueman agencies. God indeed does "repay" wicked, evil people, day-to-day.
---Leon on 7/23/08|
Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath, for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord.
The gist of Scripture, as you have noted, is this: Humanity is under a DP, but God's grace intervenes (so I agree with you there).
The point I want to make is this (and it is the main reason I have any problem with the DP): Like the verses I cite above communicate, vengeance belongs to the Lord. When there's a DP, it seems (at least to me) as if man takes that which belongs to God into his own hands.
---Bobby3 on 7/22/08|
Bobby3: Sorry for not responding sooner. I was away. :)
You say, "One would be hard pressed to find Biblical support FOR the DP." That may be true if you're trying to isolate it to particular books in the Bible. But, overall the Bible (Gen. - Rev.) shows "unrepentent" huemanity is under the DP & the only way we can receive a stay of execution is to repent of our sin by believing on & receiving Jesus Christ as Saviour & Lord.
"Should Christians support the DP?" I believe the answer is a resounding YES. The DP isn't murder as some think. It's God's just retribution to use government legal systems for purpose of taking the life of (kill/execute) convicted murders.
---Leon on 7/21/08|
It would be hard to spend time with Christians who were anxious to see people executed. To me their thinking is the same as that of those who were anxious to see Jesus executed: "Serves 'em right," they say.
---old_guy on 7/17/08|
Could you explain just what it is you (or the Spirit as you claim) is trying to say with that statment - as it applies to this discussion?
---BRUCE5656 on 7/17/08|
Leon: It IS complicated.
(BTW, I appreciate the dialogue.)
I understand your position more clearly: If the government sanctions something, then Christians should support it as long as it doesn't conflict with the Bible (which is what this debate is: whether the DP conflicts with the Bible). Fair summation?
One would be hard pressed to find Biblical support FOR the DP. If you cite the OT, it's a problem because you'd have to explain why we use the DP for certain crimes but not others commanded by the Law.
Also, I understand about the accusers' motives. My point was this: Jesus tells her at the end of it, "Neither do I condemn thee..." I think that has to be taken into account when thinking about the DP.
---Bobby3 on 7/17/08|
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God is the same today as he was from the very beginning, be careful lest you fall into temptation and try to change what is not changeable, this is from the Spirit.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 7/17/08|
Bobby3: You're making it too complicated. :)
God authorizes & lets governments rule for His purposes. We're to follow the law of the land so long as it doesn't conflict with God's word.
Some U.S. states as well as other countries enforce the Death Penalty (DP) as a rule of law. "Should Christians support the DP?" I believe Christians should obey civil law if it doesn't conflict with the Bible. I don't believe the DP does.
As an aside: Though sinless, Jesus didn't play into the accusers hands & condemn the woman. He knew their "evil" hearts were really bent on condemning Him by their fraudulent, unjust & unlawful activity. So, Jesus judged the woman wasn't deserving of the DP.
---Leon on 7/17/08|
Leon: If I am following your argument correctly (and taking it to its logical conclusion), you say we should ALWAYS follow the laws established by any government we are under (as you have supported using Romans 13 and Matthew 5). I ask, then, what if the laws are unjust (Nazi Germany, etc.)? As Peter argues in Acts 4:19, if it comes down to it, we ought to obey God rather than man (which means resisting the government/laws if necessary).
In Matthew 5, Jesus reveals that He has come to fulfill the Law. I'm still not too sure where you are going with this. Are you saying that since Jesus fulfills the OT Law, the Law (and therefore the death penalty) are still in effect? If that is the case, I ask: Why didn't Jesus cast the first stone?
---Bobby3 on 7/17/08|
Bruce ... I am not "Alan", and "Alan" is not me
---alan_of_UK on 7/16/08|
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Bobby3: Matthew 5:17-20 relates to the law. The law determines who gets the death penalty. Jesus said he didn't come to do away with the law.
Today, law permeats every form of government on earth. Citizens everywhere are subject to the benefits of obeying as well as consequences of disobeying the law. Without law there would be world-wide anarchy.
God doesn't condemn. Our sinful actions convict us. Even if one is born again (spiritually regenerated), he/she can break the law & be subject to the "physical" consequence of the death penalty. Obviously, this applies to unsaved people as well.
First, there's a spiritual then a resulting physical aspect to Bible-sanctioned death penalty.
---Leon on 7/16/08|
Leon: I haven't a problem with God-ordained condemnation. Romans 6 explicitly states that the wages for sin is death. A just and holy God has the prerogative to impose such a penalty (and this is what is meant to say we are "saved"...We have been saved by grace through faith from this particular penalty). However, there might be a confusion of terms in your last post. Physical death (which is the topic of discussion) is NOT the same as spiritual death (which is eternal condemnation and obviously more severe). All will undergo physical death, those who have been saved will not endure spiritual death (but will have everlasting life).
I don't follow how Matthew 5 relates to the topic of discussion.
---Bobby3 on 7/16/08|
I never said I believe in the death penalty "because it is in the OT". In fact I never gave any reason, only an opinion.
I am trying to challenge those who insist that it is right today "because it is in the OT" to see the inconsistency in that reason.
Notice also, I said "in principle". In practice is another thing altogether. I mentioned that I believe in it in principle to show that I am not a "hostile witness" so to speak, but rather that I wish to challange people to think it through.
---BRUCE5656 on 7/15/08|
Bobby3: Since Adam's original sin, huemanity has been under penalty of death. For this cause Jesus NEEDED to die (was executed) for our sin.
Romans 13:1-7 applies not only to Christians, but to all people (God's creation). Good citizens are blessed because they choose to do what is right in God's sight. But the evil (sociopathic rebels) are by their chosen lawless actions damned.
See Matthew 5:17-20, Jesus' view of the law. The Bible (Genesis-Revelation) says the death penalty is "required" because of the evil (SIN) people do.
So, perhaps the greater question is should Christians support (agree with) what the Bible says TODAY?
---Leon on 7/15/08|
Shirley: A more accurate translation of the commandment prohibits MURDER, not killing in general. (The term "kill" encompasses several types of "taking of a life", some of which are allowed for under the Law of Moses.)
Alan: Please provide reasoning as to why Christians against the death penalty are "siding with the enemy".
Leon: The verses in Romans you cite instruct Christians to be a good citizens. I don't see how this relates much to the issue at hand: whether the death penalty is something we need TODAY.
Bruce: I agree with you. An appeal to the OT laws doesn't work because you would have to execute the death penalty for ALL the crimes God commanded the death penalty be used for.
---Bobby3 on 7/15/08|
But Bruce ... You have not answered yuor own question!!!
---alan_of_UK on 7/15/08|
The Bible says thou shalt not Murder,
Kill is used in the English versions.
the Hebrew text says MURDER...
Hebrew & Greek text have the proper words on this matter...
Revenge/Vengeance is different than Justice!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 7/15/08|
NO,the Bible says thou shall not kill.It doesn't give exceptions in that commandment.I do think if you are protecting your own life or your child's God would excuse you.However,I believe in life in prision without parole EVER for those convicted of murder or violent rape.I don't believe prision should be the Hilton or a torture chamber.Convicts should have to work HARD and eat HEALTHY nutrious food but not steak,soda etc.Education should be offered to none violent offenders a library and maybe a little TV but not entertainm ent like country western shows etc.Ministers allowed to preach of course.
---shirley on 7/15/08|
If a person is a true regenerate and not just a nominal christian, they cannot accept anything esle than what God demands, and He demands the death penalty or rape and murder.
If persons who claim to be christians are against the death penalty then they are siding with the enemies of God and are in the wrong camp.
---alan on 7/15/08|
Thanks for your candor.
I am thinking that there are others will not answer because to answer would point out the inconsistency of their position that "because it is in the OT" justifies capital punishment.
For the record, in principle, I am in favour of capital punishment.
---Bruce5656 on 7/15/08|
Christians should not support the death penalty because far too many people are falsely accused and wrongly imprisoned. Every time I pick up the paper, I see a story about someone who spent 20 years in prison who was just released because the real killer confessed or DNA testing absolved them. They rarely get so much as an apology. It would be worse if we killed them. Also, when we do, we play God and send them directly to hell if they are not a Christian. If they get a life sentence, they have time to repent.
---obewan on 7/15/08|
I dont believe the Penalty is a Christian decision. He taught to render to Ceasar what is Ceasar's (follow the laws of the land). The old testament was eye for an eye, the new testament is under His Grace. What would be better as a deterrant to severe crimes?
---George on 7/14/08|
Bruce ... I have not tried to answer yuor question because I just do not know!
If we regard the Bible as being 100% God-written, and valid for all time and all places, then we should use the death penalty for these other "crimes"
But would that be right in what is after all now a secular society? The majority does not beleive in God, and therefore feels it can make up its own collective mind about such issues.
But if as Christians we reject those old rules, and thus the 100% literalism of the Bible, we also put in doubt many other things in the Bible, such as (say) the perpetual commandment to go forth and multiply, males only for pastors, and 144 hour Creation
No wonder we are reluctant to answer!!
---alan_of_UK on 7/15/08|
I find it interesting that no one cares to answer my question.
---BRUCE5656 on 7/14/08|
Leon has a point > people of this evil world can convict innocent people of a capital offense. Also, if ones can commit murder, surely we have ones who can frame people and/or testify falsely in order to get someone put in jail or the grave.
God's laws of execution were meant to be done by people obedient to God, not by ones handicapped by their own sin so they can't do justice right.
But Paul clearly does say of an authority, "for he does not bear the sword in vain", in Romans 13:4. Even in a God fearing culture, "by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established." (in Deuteronomy 19:15)
---Biil_bila5659 on 7/14/08|
Everyone blogging on this subject would do well to read Romans 13:1-7. It specifically says God has ordained governmental rulers as His authorized agents (ministers) to deal with lawless, "evil" people by use of His sword, i.e., to execute, cut (prune) them off.
---Leon on 7/14/08|
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I mean't that they should live but where they can't do no harm but I guess That's all to easy to say not knowing that they are victims of their own minds and rehabilitation.
if at all possible would be best for those that have to care for them as well as the well being of the inmate but not to the point of reward.
It should be hard labor, such as grinding stone into sand, or wheat into flour but the you couldn't trust them to use such machinery or their produces on anyone but themselves.
---Carla5754 on 7/11/08|
You say the death penalty was only used in rare cases.
We all know it was used in the case of murder but are you aware that it was used for people who cursed God and for incorrigable/rebellious children? Do you agree with these reasons for the death penalty today too?
If the use of the death penalty today is based on the use of the death penalty in the OT, what is the case for not putting the others to death along with the murderer?
---Bruce5656 on 7/11/08|
No. Man can not give life, who is man to take it. He that has not sinned, cast the first stone. Father is not mocked, man will reap what he sows.
---josef on 7/11/08|
YES. But the death penalty was to be used only in rare cases. We go over-board with it, like a lot of stuff. Do you know why? Because God is the only person who knows what He is a-doing. Man thinks it knows so much. Well, you do not know more than God.
---catherine on 7/10/08|
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If someone forges a signature, they can receive 22 years.
If some hurts one of God's little ones, they might get a slap on the wrist, two years.
Anything short of murder one, out before you know it.
Death penalty - usually takes 20 years in CA. They don't perform much hard labor in the USA, set up quite well.
Taxpayers pay for all it.
Overcrowding is the worst problem and no one wants a new prison in their neighborhood, aka the escapee problem. No one wants that, so it's early release.
Repeat offenders learn it can be easier on the inside than out - finding a job, place to live, etc.
Prison system, in shambles. Death penalty, it's rare - considering violent crimes that happen every day.
---Donna on 7/10/08|
because God is a capitol punishment God.
He promised to reduce and bring the modern world as we know it to its knees through the means of a Great Tribulation. and through that event that is soon to come people will have to die as a result of rejecting God's Tree of Life and taking of the Tree of Death. it all goes back to the Garden of Eden. and the command to NOT take of that tree. The modern end-time civilization as we know it has been taking of the wrong tree and we are about to REAP THE WHIRLWIND.
---pete on 7/9/08|
Carla, your idea of a desert island has been tried already it is called Australia.
I am PRO LIfe, why give them the easy way out let them spend there life in prison doing hard labor.
---Johannes on 7/9/08|
The death penalty is too prone for error, especially towards minorities. Not one innocent person executed is acceptable. Every one's life has value.
---Bev on 7/9/08|
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No. I don't believe in the death penalty. It's up to Christ is He want to punish up to that extinct. We have no right to put no one to death. We didn't make him so we don't have no right. Jesus does. Jesus teaches us about forgiveness. Why is we ignoring that. Jesus has the last say in our lives. He is the only judge.
---antoa7855 on 7/8/08|
"...it would be better if a millstone..." is NOT the same as "...you shall tie a millstone around his neck..."
The most heinous of crimes (bombings that claim several victims, for example) are often cited to support the idea of capital punishment. But where do we draw the line? What crimes are horrible enough to deserve the death penalty? Which are bad but not quite bad enough? You see, the point I'm trying to make is these questions put human beings in the position of judge (and I see a bit of a problem with that).
---Bobby3 on 7/6/08|
Simply put forth--yes, Capital Punishment is still applicable today for the shedding of innocent blood. The contraversy is: is it cruel and unusual punishment? Well, isn't murder Cruel--but NOT UNUSUAL? The issue has become contraversial is the appeals, the waiting periods, the lack of it's being put into effect speedily,slick lawyers,law loopholes,bleeding heart liberals who have never suffered the loss of a loved one murdered in cold blood,never gone through the grieving process, only to see the guilty languish in work shops, law libraries and maybe even get married with conjungal visits.The death penalty is still BIBLICAL today! . Criminals today have no regard for Life or the LAW! They have an animalistic, callous disregard for human life!
---Danelle on 7/6/08|