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Is Abortion A Political Issue

Is abortion the only concern for Christians in the 2008 Presidential race? There are many important life and death issues such as the War in Iraq, people dieing without healthcare, and families starving from the poor economy. Should we as Christians narrow ourselves to one issue when we vote?

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 ---TIMOTHY on 7/25/08
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Wow,it is amazing how different people think. Everyone rationalizes there theories and honestly believe in their own thoughts on the subject.I too intended on putting in my input but upon reading everyone else's, this isn't political or even pertaining to humanity, this is in the realm of the Almighty to answer. Everyone knows that there will be a day we will answer for our sins, let's worry about only what we would or will do and leave the rest up to each individual and God. God's will is always done, if he doesn't want a peice of legislature to pass, IT WON'T!!!!!
---ruben on 12/1/08

paul, you are correct on this statement
God does not comfort anyone in hell.
The devil is free to reign over you in hell forever torment.

But God's presence is still there. God just doesn't protect you anymore because you belong to the enemy then.

bill, I agree. It is the reason why we have so many divorces, and murders, and all the works of the flesh.
Insecure Love.
Doesn't God command us to show unconditional Love? Yes, he does.
So, why are there self-proclaimed Christians bombing abortion clinics? This isn't Christ like either. This makes Christians no better than the abortion supporters.
---miche3754 on 11/19/08

Abortion is one issue, but how a person deals with abortion is a reflection on his/her character which will effect how the person handles other things, also. By committing abortion, there are ones who are killing, essentially, the person they fear that unborn will become. And ones kill in order to keep on being accepted by ones who would reject them for having their babies. So, love is so insecure for them, that in order to stay on good terms with ones who want them to become killers, they kill the one with whom they could learn and have real love. Indeed, this is not just a political concern. When people are not sure of being loved and accepted, they can become killers. Insecure love is America's number one national security problem
---Bill_bila5659 on 11/18/08

you say-8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, thou art there.

God does not comfort anyone in hell.
The devil is free to reign over you in hell forever torment.

hell- full of hate and torment of the devil
Heaven- full of Love and peace of God

As for me ..we say " I want to be in heaven with my maker, to live in peace forever.
---paul on 11/18/08

good guest page.
thank you.
---Dgimis on 11/18/08


Your post on 10/15/08 that I said I generally agreed with answers the first two questions in your last post. Although you did not mention 1 & 2 Cor. ( thank you for not doing so), you and Paul are correct that the physical body is a "house" for the "Spirit/Soul." The body being the "prison/cage/tomb/womb" of the Spirit/Soul goes back to the ancients. That is why "death" was welcomed by them and was not viewed as something to FEAR! The ancients knew "the REAL part of us" can never experience death. The question is what is this? We certainly know that it is not the body. Again, what is Spirit/Soul, if it gives us LIFE?

I agree with you on breathing.
---I_AM_I on 10/21/08


My position is that in their ESSENCE, body, soul and spirit are ONE. Humans have carved up this ONE and given names (symbols/language) to various expression of IT. They call one expression the body and say that when it is inanimate it is "dead," because the elements of the body begin to return to the ONE ESSENCE. The same rationale applies to the spirit/soul. In a universe or God that is ONE, where can "we" hide or go?

Murdering an adult is certainly a "deprivation of that person's right to life." We all have a right to life, regardless of whether the soul lives on. The question is what is this WE? An adult is certainly included under this "we," however.
---I_AM_I on 10/21/08

I am still thinking along the lines of the fact that Jesus put little thought into losing his physical life/body.
Is this what we are suppose to consider when we are talking about death?
I like how donna puts the question.
Does it matter if the body dies since the soul continues to live on?
Another question, does breathing air mean you are truly alive?
Since God knew us before the foundation of the world, this suggests a "no" answer.
If we are asking this then we should ask, too, what exactly is murder as defined by God?
---ginger on 10/21/08

I AM I -
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that abortion does not deprive an infant of life. It sounds as if you are making a distinction between body and soul, much as Christians do.

Bible (KJV)1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

(Or are you speaking of the chemical changes involved in decomposition?)

In any case, you must conclude that murder of an adult does not deprive him of life, either.
Murder has painful effects on others, and may rob the world of great contributions by an individual, but since the soul lives on, there's no reason to prevent death of a body.

I may be misinterpreting you, however.
---Donna66 on 10/20/08

Hi Laura, well, dear, would you care to explain your statement "abortion is always wrong, no matter what" to a woman who is going to die giving birth? Or to a 12-year old girl who is pregnant by her stepfather?! Happened to my neighbor--she was only 12, imagine being a little girl pregnant by either a stranger or by the husband or boyfriend of your mother! See how "wrong" they feel abortion is.
---Mary on 10/20/08


"There shall be no arguement about abortion. It is wrong no matter what." 10/18/08

Okay, whatever you say is the LAW! However, how can LIFE be killed, whether in abortion or otherwise? Did the ancients have abortion? Was it killing LIFE then? When did abortion become killing LIFE? Who told us to BELIEVE this? How did those people come to BELIEVE this?
---I_AM_I on 10/20/08

Liberal Christian, in my view, is an oxy-moron. I don't see how anyone can be liberal and still call themselves a Christian.

God says he knew us BEFORE we were in our mother's womb. He is the creator of life. To take that life, in the womb or after, is against the moral standard outlined in God's Word.

Obama could be right 99% of the time (I don't think it's anywhere close to that) but his stand on not only abortion but his votes to NOT allow health care to babies who survived (as in out of the womb survived) botched abortions is infanticide. I can't as a believer even consider him!
---ken on 10/20/08

I believe obama is another word for obamanaiton... There shall be no arguement about abortion. It is wrong no matter what. God gives us these gifts. How long do you think god will let us kill human life that he created and not come back to punish us for our deeds.
---Laura on 10/18/08

It always amazes me the lack of understanding within the Body of Christ. Our role is to not become a part of this world system but to shine a light in this world. Why do we place our trust in men by focusing on what position they hold on one issue? I hate to say it but the majority of "evangelical Christians" were so swayed by the abortion issue with the prior presidential elections, that they did not look at upholding the constitution! If they were really focused on God's agenda they would have been looking for other signs of Godlessness such as manipulation and control, the loss of civil liberties, greed, and corruption and spiritual wickedness in high places.
---Mia on 10/18/08


It would be nice if ALL of Christendom felt like you on the color of "Jesus." After all, how can the invisible God that is everywhere have a color? What color is Spirit?

I agree, let us return to WHAT IS LIFE and CAN IT DIE? Whatever the Great Life Force is, we know for certain that it is not the body, because the body is inanimate without it! Although the body is inanimate without this Life Force, a body that is considered "dead" still reacts to the "environment" that it is in. Why?

Is Life, which cannot experience death, the Spirit and/or Soul? That would depend on how you define both terms.

BTW, God has already given you the WISDOM on this issue. It is WITHIN you!
---I_AM_I on 10/17/08


YOU WROTE: Hell is the devil's domain alone....Where did you read in the Bible that God is in hell???? Ginger??

Jer. 23:24. God is in heaven and on earth.
Psalm 139:8. God is in heaven and HELL.

This makes God universal (everywhere) as Ginger and Frances correctly pointed out. This also makes God pantheistic as well as monotheistic!
---I_AM_I on 10/17/08

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I am I,
I ment it doesn't matter to me what color Jesus was (it may to others). I am just glad He came and did what He did.
Apologies for the miscommunication.

Come to think about it, Christ didn't really put much thought into His fleshly body, did he? he had his nailed to the cross, willingly giving it up for us. I wonder, is the example we are suppose to follow?
Paul said we should die to our flesh.

So that brings us back to what is life really?
Is it the flesh we walk around in or is it the soul(what transforms into the spirit at Jesus' return) or is it both?
I pray that God gives me wisdom on this.
But then "he who increases knowledge, increases sorrow."
---ginger on 10/17/08

paul, God is everywhere present and nowhere absent.
This means HIS presence is everywhere, even in hell.
That is the true torment of hell. To know God is there, and NOT be able to worship Him as He created us to do.
Like I said, those in hell will be burning up and listening and watching and feeling the fact that Christians get to be with God forever, while they suffer.
God's presence being felt everywhere is talked about throughout the whole Bible.
Even when we can't feel Him, he is there.
Even the enemy can feel God's presence. Brother, don't you know that?
---ginger on 10/17/08

Jesus will (I believe) be visiting Hell to try and comfort the poor souls who consign themselves there because they refuse to obey God. God takes no delight in the fact that some people will be going there, but rather is tarrying and not coming too soon, so that more people will be saved. We need to get to work informing people of what's what.
---frances008 on 10/16/08

God is everywhere. Psalm 139.
---frances008 on 10/16/08

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no ginger-
That is what makes it hell..the absence of God's presence. Those in hell are surrounded by torture- burning- demons the devil alone.
Hell is the devil's domain alone.

They will never have the hope of seeing God in heaven ever.
And that is why we want to go to heaven to be with the Lord forever. In His presence.

Where did you read in the Bible that God is in hell???? Ginger??
---paul on 10/16/08

Ginger & Paul,


There are scriptures that support Ginger's pantheistic (universal) God, including that God is in hell! I can provide them if necessary.


Those things matter only if the person insists that their god took on FLESH AS A MAN and has a father!

Thanks for your honest answer on whether the "soul" "dies" in an abortion. We can answer this only if we can define "soul" and "death." From what I have read and seen in nature, there is no "death," i.e., extinction. Things change or are transformed. What happens to the elements or energy the body is made up of after the body is aborted?
---I_AM_I on 10/16/08

Yes, God's presence is even in hell.
He is omnipresent- everywhere at one time.
The thing we will be removed from in hell is the purpose God set for us and that is to worship God.
People in hell will no longer be able to worship God.
Hell will be burning up to a crisp and those in it will be absent from God's purpose.
They will not be absent from God's pesence.

IamI, I understand what you are saying but those things do not matter so why ask?
Answering to other question-
The physical body is aborted in an abortion.
So you are asking if the soul "dies" in an abortion? Not sure.
---ginger on 10/16/08

God's presence is even in hell.

not so.that is the the main downfall of being in hell..Is that you are without God forever. No hope. total despair. endless.
---paul on 10/15/08

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I generally agree with your entire post. However, since God is genderless, why not refer to God as an IT in order to avoid sexism and racism? Some people literally believe that God is a man (he, father, him, lord, etc) who had a literal son named "Jesus." If this is true, then what is the COLOR of God and God's son?

Since you subscribe to a pantheistic God, which the bible supports and Christianity does not, ALL children of the universe must be "of" God. <

If Spirit/Soul is LIFE, out of what ESSENCE is our "physical" bodies made of? Is it energy/spirit? Other than "spiritual death," can the "spirit" die? What ESSENCE inside a woman is aborted?
---I_AM_I on 10/15/08

I am I,
I agree God is not a "he". That is just the universal perception for an entity that does not have a particular gender.
When I said the body can die, I was talking about the physical body. The physical body is a "house" for the Spirit/soul God gives to us.

The "death" of the Spirit is not technically to die but not to have a purpose.
God created us to have a purpose and that is to worship and glorify HIM.
I believe that death is to be absent of that purpose.

We cannot be absent from the Father because He is everywhere. God's presence is even in hell.

The Spirit/Soul is the life that God breathes into us. God forms our bodies and breathes this life into us.
---ginger on 10/15/08


Thanks for your very thoughtful response. I completely agree with you that "life is a circle and we are all connected." I further agree with you that "life comes from God." I disagree with you, however, that God is a "he." You are absolutely correct that life cannot die, because if life can die then God can die. Life = God. When you say the body can die, what do you mean? Isn't the body "from" God (the all in ALL)? Also, what do you mean by "soul?" You mentioned that the spirit can experience death. What are "spirit" and "death?" Note that these questions are necessary in order for us to understand WHAT IS LIFE and if an ABORTION can end life?
---I_AM_I on 10/14/08

I am I

What is life? well, that is a ? isn't it.

I think my descendants had a pretty good idea of what life is and where it comes from because of the "GREAT Circle." I am not talking about the sun, either. Life, is a circle, and we are all connected. I believe life comes from God and he is the source of all things. Does life really die? I don't think so. I think the body dies. But the soul within it does not. This is what Christ is talking about when He speaks of the 2nd death. Christ saved us from the 2nd death. Death of the spirit.
---ginger on 10/14/08

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Ah? I never said I created my kids with my wife. Please read my posts to Ginger, especially the one on 10/7/08 wherein I stated WE CANNOT CREATE LIFE! I was surprised at your post but I responded it out of courtesy.

Since you brought up the concept of "nothing" or "creation ex nihilo," I took the opportunity to show you that I am familiar with the concept and will gladly have a discussion with you on it. I mentioned "space-time" to show that the concept of "nothing" is the same even in "science."

Kindly show me how I was not "straightforward" and "intelligible." First, however, read your post to me and ask if that is "intelligible."
---I_AM_I on 10/13/08


Thanks for your kindness and apology. You have said nothing offensive to me, however. I am enjoying our exchange. I love this subject matter.

YOU WROTE: As for the question you asked about where life begins, I found Scripture on it and here it is.

That was not the question I asked. I asked you WHAT IS LIFE? A second question I asked you but later dropped was CAN LIFE DIE ( i.e, be non-existing)?

There are similar scriptures to the one you provided. We can discuss them and the one you provided after we determine WHAT IS LIFE? How can we discuss something if we do not know what it is?
---I_AM_I on 10/13/08

I am I
I apologize if I said anything to offend you.
I will say I don't thank my children because they did not choose me to be their mother. God chose me to be their mother.
As for the question you asked about where life begins, I found Scripture on it and here it is.

Psalm 139:13-15

13 For you created my inmost being,
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made,
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,

God Bless you brother!!
---ginger on 10/13/08

IMI:You cloud the text with high faluting words bringing science, be straightforward and intelligible, as I did in my post to you.You admit it was beyond your realm to create, but you did produce not one but 3, by His power in you two as one.which is what He intended when He said "Increase and Multiply"Peace this is the First time you have acknowledged The Omnipotence in Almighty God.
---Mic on 10/10/08

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YOU WROTE: you and your wife did give them life.

So we are capable of originating LIFE? That would make each human or person THE SOURCE of life? However, ALL religions I have examined and the ONE MYTH say life has only ONE SOURCE. Since you can originate life, let me ask you the same question for a third time. WHAT IS LIFE?

Yes, I am thanking my children for choosing us and they are thanking me and my wife for choosing them! We do have a CHOICE at all times! God always gives each person a choice.
---I_AM_I on 10/10/08


YOU WROTE: IMI:-To create is to make something out of NOTHING.Was this what you did?

NO! I did not create them!

NOTHING is something, however. The ancients call this "something" NOTHING. They also call this "something" the "primeval ocean," "the deep," "water," "spirit," "chaos," "mind," "the void," etc. Parts of science refer to this "nothing" or "something" as beyond time-space or "time-less-ness" or "space-less-ness." Everything is already included in the ALL IN ALL. In this ALL things move around. You know this from ACTS as "in HIM [IT] we live and have our being."
---I_AM_I on 10/10/08

I am I,
you and your wife did give them life.

GOD gave them a soul.

I know you you didn't mean for it to sound like your children chose you and your wife but it sounds like you are thanking your children for it. But in acuality, God chose you and her and it is God you should be thanking, not your children, because He chose you not them.

I have two wonderful children, and I thank God everyday for choosing me to give life to them.
---ginger on 10/10/08

IMI:-To create is to make something out of NOTHING.Was this what you did? This is ONLY God's Function and capability, but He did Create a human to be able to Produce another by the image of Himself installed in Man.Using both images in Man and woman which he bestowed in a His creation through us, enables us,combined, to perform the same miracle.What God hath joined -let no man put asunder.
---Mic on 10/9/08

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YOU WROTE: I am I What do you call having a baby?

God has blessed me and my wife with three babies. I have had the pleasure of being in the delivery room and cutting the umbilical cord for each. With the first one (a boy), the family had a party in the deliver room. The other two (girl and boy) "came into the world" quietly with just me and my wife present. Along with my wife, I took each of them home from the hospital.

Nonetheless, both my wife and I tell them that WE DID NOT GIVE THEM LIFE! We explain to them that God gave them life and we are a conduit/vehicle for such life. We thank them for choosing us and the two older ones thank us for choosing them. Do you think that we created them?
---I_AM_I on 10/9/08

I am I
What do you call having a baby?

I understand that Benjamin said this but it is truth. For every step we take as Christians, God takes two. He will open the door but we have to choose to walk through it.
Deuteronomy 30:19-20
19) This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live
20) and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
---ginger on 10/8/08


While "God helps those who help themselves" may be a good platitude (and may even be true), it's a quote from Benjamin Franklin, rather than the Bible (and people should realize it's popular wisdom, rather than holy writ).
---StrongAxe on 10/7/08


LIFE is indeed precious. However, WHAT IS LIFE?

YOU WROTE: GOD gave us(men and women)the ability to create Life.

No! We CANNOT create life!!! God gave us the ability to be a vehicle for the expression or manifestation of LIFE!!! What do you think?

God bless.
---I_AM_I on 10/7/08

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I am I
you are very right. I discovered that LIFE is precious. I even hid my pregnancy with son from everyone except his dad just to make sure no one would even try to talk me out of not having him.
Only God can establish the love of life in a person.
GOD gave us(men and women)the ability to create Life. It starts by loving everyone and realizing this and that it is precious.
---ginger on 10/7/08

strongaxe, I have heard that same thing. It is true but they do not explain the whole truth. God helps those who help themselves. So, they need to explain that they must be completely in the will of God- pay tithes, pay your bills, and save. Then pray about it. They need to explain that we have to take the first steps for God to show up and do the rest for us. That means following His word for our finances. Follow a budget. These preachers did not explain the whole message from God on this. Now, they are in a mess, brother. So, yes, this is another contributing factor. We have too many people who have the "I want it now" syndrome.
---ginger on 10/7/08


I am not blaming you for your decision to have an abortion. That would be extremely insensitive on my part! I am happy that you have found a *peaceful place* within for the CHOICE you exercised as a young woman.

You claimed that you want women to CHOOSE LIFE. However, in order for women to choose or not choose life, don*t they have to know WHAT IS LIFE? Since those who are opposed to abortion argue that it is the taking of LIFE, shouldn*t we try to find out IF LIFE CAN EVER DIE (i.e., be non-existing).

Men have given us *patriarchal* religions (e.g., Judeo-Christian-Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism) and this MODERN DAY abortion issue! Why? This specific type of religion is inextricably linked with the abortion issue!
---I_AM_I on 10/7/08


YOU WROTE: I AM I, I have stayed away from the abortion issue because I have had a hard time with people saying I am immoral and Hellbound.

You have never been afraid of people sending you to*hell* and please do not start to be afraid now. Remember, let them prove to you where *hell* is located. They cannot!

Certain men use the abortion issue to CONTROL women's spirituality, which some men throughout history have been AFRAID of! As you may know, women were GODDESSES before God was changed into a man (father/lord) and then became EXCLUSIVE to Christians and only Christians. Amazing! Thank God man cannot control the FREE EXPRESSION of Spirit (God/Goddess, John 4:24), despite MAN CREATING GOD IN MAN*S IMAGE!
---I_AM_I on 10/7/08

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Dayce: Check your Bible. You said, money is "the root of all evil." Last time I looked at scripture it says, "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil." 1 Timothy 6:10
---Trish9863 on 10/6/08


I read an interesting article a few days ago that mentioned another interesting tie-in with the recent mortgage crisis: the "name it and claim it" prosperity gospel.

Such preachers tell people that they can have whatever they want if they just claim it. So poor people claim houses, believing God will let them have them if they show enough faith (by, say, giving money to said preachers). Amazingly enough, the banks let them have the mortgages (even though they are "insanely risky loans"), so the people believe thier prayers are answered. Years later, the bad mortgages show their true colors, and the people lose their homes (and sometimes their faith as well), and the banks go under.
---StrongAxe on 10/6/08

another issue- people without jobs.
This bottoming out of the housing market was in lots of ways caused by hard working Americans losing their jobs. You can't support a family without a job. The unemployement rate as of Sept is 6.1%. This is the highest it has been since year 2000. Who ever becomes pres. Needs to address this issue also. Help American families get back on their feet by providing jobs.I can't tell you how many plants have closed in my state (NC). I know the majority of people would rather work and make a living than feel worthless and do nothing and not beable to support their families(Welfare is not enough)
---ginger on 10/6/08

Obama's supposed to be a Christian but the man doesn't know what the Word says. This man is for all that the Lord is against. If you need reminded, Galatians 5:16-21 If this man is as he's calls himself a Christian he would be against the ways of the flesh...though he's all for it. The few Christians I have talked to said they're going to vote for him because "He'll do better for economy". I tell them they are letting money "the root of all evil", sway their vote instead of the Word. His plans won't be better, lets take a second look. He's going to raise taxes on richer people and buisnesses. Guess what?! Those rich people are the buisness OWNERS and guess who they are going to pass on the increase to? US! The consumer.
---Dayce on 10/6/08

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Atheist: "So we don't have to worry about the suffering of a baby born addicted to a crack whore, because you believe it will not live to term anyway?"

Also people that seem to be lesser humans because of the impinged IQ, I would point out they tend to be the most incredibly loving people in the world.

Also if you basis for killing them is the fact they have not develop conscientiousness then where do you draw the line. Debatable. But certainly infants that have yet enter the linguistic community would be included. Under an Atheistic worldview the only reason for not doing it is their aesthetic value to others. Then of course there are several consequences that flow from this.
---Martin_nz on 10/4/08

Idon't think we should narrow ourselves to one issue but when that issue is the killing of innocent children we certainly should make it one of our top issues as Christians.If you really think about it isn't abortion(killing babies)a "life and death issue"?
---ron on 10/3/08


I have stayed away from the abortion issue because I have had a hard time with people saying I am immoral and Hellbound. But I got tired of people, particularly men, saying it was murder, but not carrying that conclusion out to the consequences of criminalizing it and the resulting punishments.

The absurdity of prosecution from that catagorization is clear.

Women, in excruciating situations, not only are faced with an impossibly difficult moral choice, but are demonize to boot.

For men, who cannot be raped and made pregnant, much less just get pregnant, to call those involved in an abortion murderers is remarkable, insensitive to the point of cruety, and I would think "unchristian."
---atheist on 10/4/08


My first situation: 2) In the fifth month it is determine that without an abortion, a mother of five, will likely die.

Your response: 2)Mother of 5 - she has lived her life and I doubt she would sacrifice an innocent to save her own life. That is also what a husband and family are for.

My change: 2) Some families do have a mother and father, but in this case let's suppose the father died in Irag or a car crash, or has adult onset leukemia, or...Too statisically remote?

The change was to counter your argument that a father might be there to care for the children. As you know from you own sad and painful experience, that is not always the case.
---atheist on 10/3/08

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i am i
I can speak from experience because I have gone through it. It was a very tough decision and I cried alot before and after. It does not bother me what you think because I do not answer to you. I answer to God and He has forgiven me just as I finally forgave myself. I can use that to minister to young women who think it is the answer just like I THOUGHT it was.. BUT it was NOT. I can tell them they will regret it and carry the guilt unless they repent. The thing with that is God had no problem forgiving me, I had a problem with forgiving myself for a long time . Because I suffered that does not mean others have to.
---ginger on 10/3/08

I am I
I used to think that it was okay.
But now I know it is wrong.
No, A man cannot feel this. That is why there are lots of men who would suggested it to women and they have. All women of any age have a choice. I would tell them to CHOOSE LIFE. They have other options. They don't have to do what I did. That is what I am trying to say. But it is apparent that some Christians have a problem forgiving someone who has and repented. God forgives but Christians do not? How can you call yourself a Christian if you cannot forgive just as Christ does? Like I said your condemnation does not matter. I am forgiven by God.
---ginger on 10/3/08


YOU WROTE: I can speak from axperience, can you? no, no man can. They don't have to endure either killing a baby or the other end wondering how in the world you are going to take care of a child by yourself.

This sounds like you want women to have a CHOICE! Since men cannot have these experiences, do you want them to make the decision on if or when a woman can CHOOSE to have or not an abortion? At least at 26 y.o. you had a CHOICE!

Before we can address whether life begins at conception or otherwise, we have to first answer the questions of WHAT IS LIFE and CAN LIFE EVER DIE, right?

Who invented the abortion debate? Man or woman? Why? Did it exist before biblical time? If yes, how was it dealt with?
---I_AM_I on 10/3/08

By the way athiest, why did you change number two? I must have answered pretty well for you to tack on extra to that question. That tells me that You don't really want a solution. You just want something to argue about.

To answer the question that is posted- no I don't think we should narrow ourselves to just abortion. Health care is the biggest issue in this country along with the economy. There are pregnant women who need to be seen by a doctor who don't have coverage to help them have a healthy baby. Women die delivering their babies just because they didn't receive proper health care.
But athiest would rather argue about abortion!
---ginger on 10/3/08

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France0008, I have no lust in my Heart,(happily married for 28 yrs), "I have" JUST cause "fool", plus you've PROVEN yourself not to be a child of Gods but a pawn of Satan's, your the pawn you blame EVERYONE else to be...
Just FYI, I would die to protect someone who was being attacked by another person in this manner.
I don't think you have any understanding in you of how or who I AM!

My Brother said their would be many people in the end times who thought they were doing God's will, But are FAR from HIM!

Your light has been exposed or the Lack of it I should say, Theirs no Love in you, You ARE an ACCUSER of the Brethern like your Father Satan...
Turn while you are ABLE!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 10/3/08

Look mr. athiest- who are you to even ask. I have had an abortion and not a day goes by that I don't have to live the guilt of it and try to let go and let God heal my wounds. I 26, and the guy was 26, well he decided just one day to up and leave knowing I was pregnant and marry someone else instead. I can speak from axperience, can you? no, no man can. They don't have to endure either killing a baby or the other end wondering how in the world you are going to take care of a child by yourself. I also have a daughter of that age. I would tell her NOTHING is worse than the suffering you feel after an abortion. There are OTHER options.
---ginger on 10/3/08

continued- If I cannot deal with it, what makes you think that a 13 year old girl can? If she is contemplating suicide WHILE she is pregnant, what do you think she will feel if she takes an innocent life? I have had this conversation with my daughter. We agreed IF this ever happend, she knows I am behind her 100%. We can raise it together if needed. But I am a loving parent who would not let their child see having a baby as punishment. I would support her, help her finish school, and develope the ability to take care of her child herself,if she chooses to keep it instead of adoption.

God says "My people perish for a LACK of knowledge"
That is what it takes- informing and standing behind our teenagers so this doesn't happen.
---ginger on 10/3/08

Hi Atheist:
I have taught many children who were the crack babies. They are a mess, and very messed up emotionally and physically. Many of the drug addicted mothers do carry their children to term.
It is a real fantasy to think that there would ever be a real sentence imposed on a person for an abortion. It is unrealistic to imprison the persons responsible for an abortion in our country. The criminal justice system cannot handle the drug offenses or the murders that occur in our society.

In Philadelphia last week, a police officer was killed by a paroled murderer who was let out a few months short of his full prison term.

Do the anti-abortionists really believe that we can criminalize this? It seems unrealistic.
---Troisj9863 on 10/2/08

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DDM, your true character is coming out. Hypocrisy. You know in the Bible to lust after someone is the same as adultery. Anger without just cause is the same as murder. Even calling someone 'Fool!' endangers you to Hell's fires. But you think that an adulterer who sleeps with someone else's wife, or who betrays his own wife, is okay as long as no rape is involved. Mutual consent. What about date rapes where drugs are used? Please. Evil is evil. You seem to think that the consequences of one evil is worse than another, but you are not God. Who knows how many women murdered their husbands for philandering. On whose account would that sin go?
---frances008 on 10/2/08

Kim Elders name is..... Elder I think? :)
---Carla3939 on 10/2/08


Think of it this way out of all the millions of sperm and potential eggs the gift of life was granted to you all other potential siblings past into oblivion but for a GOD given reason He chose You for the right to life.

Now that was a battle/ process far too genius for us to call luck or Chance........ You begin the process if not rejected by your mothers own natural defense system happen to grow, born and become.......BUT.

Your mother decides she doesn't want to GIVE YOU that chance to live for what ever reason? is that okay by you that she can kill you and without being judged for not giving you the chance to be who you now know who and what you've become?
---Carla3939 on 10/2/08


1) So we don't have to worry about the suffering of a baby born addicted to a crack whore, because you believe it will not live to term anyway?

2) Some families do have a mother and father, but in this case let's suppose the father died in Irag or a car crash, or has adult onset leukemia, or...Too statisically remote?

3) That's right load up a thirteen year old girl with guilt to do the right thing. Maybe you've got the right to guilt trip your own daughter, but not every rape victim in the country.

Besides, I asked what the laws should look like if abortions are criminalized, not rationalizations of why the question should not be asked. It needs to be asked. I am asking...
---atheist on 10/2/08

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Dudeley: "You mix a puke & girl's dressed up like hooker's and running around the streets with there friends the way they "DO", Well,( IT HAPPENS)!"

I am sure that whatever thought is in that, it is the work of an intellectual giant...

I wrote: "I am simply asking how you will deal with some of those consequences."

Your answer: "Start cutting off hands & private parts for those type of offenders, and NOT 20 yrs later after endless appeal's either,OR is that to ruff for you?"

Again, brillant, thought out, and civilized. Something the Taliban would do.

But "Christlike"? Not by my standards...
---atheist on 10/2/08

"Vengeance is mine," saith the Dudley, who talks like a Muslim.
---Kim2u on 10/2/08


1)Girl on drugs- most drugs stop a woman from even ovulating, did you know that? If she did get pregnant, it more than likely wouldnt make it to term.

2)Mother of 5 - she has lived her life and I doubt she would sacrifice an innocent to save her own life. That is also what a husband and family are for.

3)The girl- I would give her some serious advice- dont add the guilt of an abortion to your sorrow, and neither the suicide.

50 yrs ago these scenarios were a fact of life. They happened.
My point is adoption in any of these situations is better than abortion. Trust me I know. We must also remember, not all murderers get the death penalty.
---ginger on 10/2/08

I "?"(people LIE) your number of rapes 1st of all.
You mix a puke & girl's dressed up like hooker's and running around the streets with there friends the way they "DO", Well,( IT HAPPENS)!
There's evil people out there and I'd start with those that like to do such things,
Start cutting off hands & private parts for those type of offenders, and NOT 20 yrs later after endless appeal's either,
OR is that to ruff for you?
Can't have it both way's, THAT'S part of the Problem, Going to jail isn't a punishment for Criminals!
Hard for a 1 arm man to rape a women,
Better to lose an arm now and find God, Then to be tossed into the fire like a bundle of weeds!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 10/1/08

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Hi Jennifer, you are absolutely right and I am sooo sorry for the people that treated you bad in God's name, especially! I have always felt like we need to walk a mile in another's shoes before we can even start to judge--and even then, that belongs to the Lord alone. You're in my prayers for healing and I am so sorry.
---Mary on 10/1/08

Jennifer, you are right. This is absolutely the wrong site for those in need of comfort.
---Kim2u on 10/1/08

I was not trying to compare abortion to self defense. I was trying to make the point that exceptions to the laws pertaining to murder have been made in the past and would likely be made here as well.
These laws also would be made by each state instead of the federal government as they should have been in the first place.
---BobC on 10/1/08

Jennifer- you are right.I takes love and compassion to help others who have been through what you have.
Please check out - 40 days for life vigil site- knock and you shall recieve. the door will be opened to you. a wonderfull support team and it is happening right now! It will bring you solace and heart felt understanding. It will bring you into the light of Jesus and how he would handle this.
God bless you!
---paul on 10/1/08

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I am Christian. I was baptized Roman Catholic and I have had an abortion. I looked to your website for solace, for answers, and it made me feel worse. Christians should comfort, not ridicule. This website has made me less of a believer in Christianity and God. I am disheartened by what I have read on this site, and now believe more than ever than Christianity is a farce. What exactly is a Christ-like reply, if not speaking from the heart. This is what my heart feels and I think God loves me and respects me for speaking my heart's truth.
---Jennifer on 9/30/08


Clearly millions of fundamentalist Christians believe that abortion is murder in all cases. Their push for the eventual criminalization of abortion will have deep ramifications for our society.

While, you may certainly deal with abortions in your life as you see fit, success with the criminlization of abortion will put your beliefs in a position of effecting the lives of others. I agree that unborn children are amoung them.

For this reason you have an obligation, if you push for criminalization to actively deal with the consequences, both known, possible, and unforseen. I am simply asking how you will deal with some of those consequences. Is it moral to force a rape victim to have a child?
---atheist on 9/30/08

Elder, what church appointed you an elder. Just wondered.
---Kim2u on 9/30/08

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