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Presidential Faith Forum

What do you think about the upcoming Faith & Values forum Barack Obama & John McCain are scheduled to participate in at Rick Warren's church?

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 ---Leon on 8/16/08
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NO Leon he was in his limo on his way.
Hmmm... wonder if he has a TV feed in his Limo?
---Becky on 10/1/08


Was Senator McCain in a "cone of silence" when Senator Obama was being questioned by Rick Warren?
---Leon on 9/4/08


Mary, your response was well taken. Many of the problems we have is because the politicians are not doing their jobs. The problems we have are so many. Many things are happening each day that add to those problems. School reform hasn't happen, welfare reform, illegal immigration has not stopped. Social security is in trouble. U.S. giving money to just about every country in the world who hate us. Politicians helping each other when they decide how to use the money for our country. You vote for me and I vote for your state, sort of thing. The war has taken us deeper into debt. A system has been set in and it doesn't matter who is in, they will not bust the system. It's been there for many years.
---Mark_V. on 9/1/08


Hi Mark V, you're right--we do live in a great country and I AM thankful to be a citizen. However, we have seriously lost the respect of most of the world and one of the reasons people come here, as far as I can see, is because we provide generous welfare and healthcare to those who are not citizens of this country. At least in my state that is so.
---Mary on 8/31/08


Mark, what a typical right-wingnut response. I like how you conveniently forgot about the money the republicans spent trying to find something to convict Bill Clinton. They tried whitewater, travelgate, anything, and finally found something that had NOTHING to do with their original charge. Everything you accuse the democrats of doing, the republicans did.
---NurseRobert on 8/31/08




Mary, you're angry, what a shock. Just as most Democrates are when a Republican is in office, and the reason most Democrates spend their whole terms in office trying to discredit the president every way they can. They wasted time and countless dollars. No matter who the president wanted in positions, everyone was wrong and bad.
When the Democrates were in office, every one was very happy. And everything the Demo's do is right. Praise be to God in the highest, every single day for you live in the best country in the world which compares to none. Why do you think everyone wants to come here and not go to Iraq, Iran, or Russia.
---Mark_V. on 8/31/08


Amen Mary, you are so right! I pray that God will protect our troops.
---Becky on 8/31/08


Hi, would someone care to explain to the thousands of victims (countless thousands when you add in family members and loved ones!) of this war Bush got us into that republicans are the "pro-life" choice?! No, I don't agree with abortion but tell me how pro-life is a war that has wastefully sent so many of our finest to die in that hell-bent country of Iraq and others? Sorry if I seem angry today, just got back from a memorial service and for someone who "doesn't cry" I have done nothing but lol! Anyway, abortion isn't the only wrong death.
---Mary on 8/30/08


Donna, you are right about the "nanny" laws that politicians feel the need to enact. Total waste of time and resources. However, the primary role of Government, and our Government specifically, is to protect our God given rights, among them Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness as proclaimed by the Founders.

To place hate speech or seat belt laws in the same league as abortion is misguided. It is illegal for someone to kill another person. It always has been. Except for mothers who want to kill their babies. Our Government has proclaimed that is perfectly fine. When life itself becomes devalued to the point that only certain lives matter, then it's no longer a government of, by and for the people, is it.
---ralph7477 on 8/30/08


Ralph,

IMO, MANY new laws that are "enacted every day" are unessesary... "Hate speech", for one (that used be be considered"free speech"), most gun laws... No, Banning abortion, by itself, is no tipping point.

MIC, Who made the matter of abortion a GOVERNMENT responibility? Is it not primarily a personal responsibility?
Or is it just easier to let the government handle it, then blame THEM if the situation continues (as it will, law or no law)

Obewan-- This is no "one issue" election for me! There are many issues that are compelling in this election.
---Donna66 on 8/29/08




McCain has already stated that he would appoint supreme court judges with the same values as him and that would be pro-life. Praise God!
---colupy on 8/29/08


>>Donna, you do realize that there are new laws being enacted every day all over the country.<<

More related to the topic at hand, I don't think the coming election offers much hope on the subject of abortion. I read today that both candidates oppose a constitutional ammendment that would ban abortion. McCain might as well be called pro-choice. If we are talking about a one issue election, that could become a tipping point with me.
---obewan on 8/29/08


>>And you are seriously trying to make the case that an abortion law would be the tipping point at which the legal system is overwhelmed.<<

Actually you would be forced to make a lot of assumptions if you don't declare what the penalty is along with the fact that we need a law. Since we agree that abortion is murder, the penalty would have to be stiff. How long did the OJ murder trial take, and how much did it cost? By the same token, if we went after abortion providers, how many appeals would they use, and how would they prove or deal with the life of the mother in danger possibility?
---obewan on 8/29/08


Talk causes delay. The voices of the unborn and aborted cry out to Heaven for justice caused By people on earth.Each one who condones this action will be punished.Governments need to step in and make a start aided By The Good people who bear the Banner of Christianity.But who is to bell the cat-world leaders.JMHO.
---MIC on 8/29/08


Donna, you do realize that there are new laws being enacted every day all over the country. And you are seriously trying to make the case that an abortion law would be the tipping point at which the legal system is overwhelmed. Have you ever made this ridiculous argument against any other recently passed or proposed law? I highly doubt it.

Given that the vast number of abortions are performed by the same doctors or clinics it would be very easy to start off by prosecuting the providers of abortions first. The fact that there aren't enough judges simply points to the poor job that public officials are doing in maintaining the judiciary. Or it could be that there aren't enough judges because they were aborted 30 or 40 years ago.
---ralph7477 on 8/29/08


There is no question that abortion is sin.
But I don't believe it is the GOVERNMENT's responsibility to legislate against it...just as it is not their resposibility to legislate against so-called "hate-speech", alcohol consumption or adultery.

Laws against abortion did not stop the practice before Rowe vs Wade. And now that abortion has become widespread, I doubt that any law would be very effective.

I believe that Christians should take an active role in supporting, couseling and providing for women with unwanted pregnancies. Legislation should be directed toward making adoption an attractive option for unwed mothers and making it easier for couples to adopt.
---Donna66 on 8/28/08


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It is not our right to set the standards as to what sin is greater then another. Sin is sin no matter what. What is the issue is who will protect the life of an unborn human being? That is the question. There are those that protect the mother so that she doesn't have to have the burden of conceiving a baby, and have to work hard for having him, so they side with her. Who sides with the unborn? Every child is dependent upon us. No matter the circumstances. They are defenseless. Though everything happens by God allowing or permitting it, we will be judge by our actions. Every single action will be recorded in the book of works, and we will be without excuse.
---Mark_V. on 8/28/08


"...it makes me think that you need a lot more than a V-8, which I don't touch because it tastes disgusting."

I can't stand V-8 either.
---Bobby3 on 8/28/08


Part 1.
The CDC estimates the number of abortions at 1,287,000 for 2004-2006 in the U.S.If you average this out to 429,000 cases per year that could be prosecuted in the courts you would need to increase the number of courts and or judges significantly.


The Bill of rights guarantees "that In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury..."

The number of defendants out on bond or awaiting trail are becoming increasingly problematic. The LA TImes reports a disturbing situation in Riverside CO CA as an example.
---Donna66 on 8/27/08


Part 2
But a crisis exists in courts such as Riverside Co CA. In August, the state sent an emergency team of judges to help clear the overburdened courts of Riverside CA, reports the LA TIMES.

Despite the reinforcements, the problem came to a head this week when the court dismissed eight felony cases (which included domestic violence, assault, gang, drug and fraud cases).
because no judges were available.In each case, the time limits guaranteeing defendants rights to a speedy trial had expired.

The government may have a "duty" to protect the rights of the People, but I tend to feel my "rights" are more in jeopardy at the hands of gang members than abortionists.
---Donna66 on 8/27/08


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Leon, I've posted on the subject of abortion long before this election. If Obama hadn't given that ridiculous answer about when life begins, there wouldn't have been anything to write about. It was a perfect illustration to show how disingenuous he is, along with Nancy Pelosi and all the other pro-abortionists who claim they don't know when life begins. EVERYBODY knows when life begins and if you claim that you don't know then you are a phony as well.

People's attitudes about abortion tell me a lot about their character. When you put forth the idea that babies go right to God when they are killed so there is possibly a bright side, it makes me think that you need a lot more than a V-8, which I don't touch because it tastes disgusting.
---ralph7477 on 8/27/08


Donna: "And can you imagine our congested courts if suddenly adultery was made illegal? If abortion was made illegal tomorrow, the effect would be about the same."

On what basis do you make such a claim? What sources of information do you refer to that show that this would be true? And even if it were true that courts would be overwhelmed should abortion become illegal, what has that got to do with it? Isn't the purpose of our government to uphold and protect the rights of its citizens, however difficult this duty might prove to be? I haven't a problem with your position on the issue (which seems to be similar to what my friend Leon's is), but your reasoning seems faulty.
---Bobby3 on 8/27/08


I do not know anything about that. But, hypocrites are real BIG on this faith thing!
---catherine on 8/27/08


>>What do you think about the upcoming Faith & Values forum Barack Obama & John McCain are scheduled to participate in at Rick Warren's church?<<

I think it was a great thing, and I give Rick a lot of credit for attempting to be non-partisan. Real change in the system may come about through even just the threat of voting for the opposite party. That is what I like about primary elections. We have the opportunity for a Libertarian like Ron Paul to attempt to shape policy within the Republican party.
---obewan on 8/27/08


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**
Those who are guilty often suffer penalties beyond what any court could impose. I think our efforts should be directed toward spreading the Gospel.
**

by your own mixed up chaotic message blatant double talk believing that "self professing christianity" should go with the flow of man made laws that override Gods laws continue to ALLOW murdering of people because to go back making abortion illegal overburdens the courts

reasoning that "christianity" offers best prevention of immorality ...what morality if FORGETTING GODS LAWS TO ALLOW MURDER because the gospel is more important??

WHICH GOSPEL? you're led by another spirit NOT Christ 2Corin 4:4, Matt 7:23, Acts 5:29, Rom 2:8
---Rhonda on 8/26/08


I sure stirred things up, didn't I? I just kind of threw out this theoretical question for the sake of argument.

Moreover,I guess I didn't make my point very well. Is murder (or abortion) more of a sin than adultery?
Both are against God's law. Both are part of the Ten commandments. Did God say that he would give a break to adulterers, be a little more merciful toward them?

No, but man has. And can you imagine our congested courts if suddenly adultery was made illegal? If abortion was made illegal tomorrow, the effect would be about the same.

Actually, I remember pre-Rowe vs Wade. Charges were hardly ever brought, even though "therapeutic abortions" were fairly
common.
---Donna66 on 8/26/08


Ralph: You & some others on this blog are one track minded & bent on riding the abortion issue (as pertains to the upcoming presidential election) right into the ground. You all could use a V-8. :)

Bobby: Yes & let me correct my "laws" statement. The "law of the land (U.S. Constitution, 14th Amendment, Equal Protection Clause)" should be enough to protect the lives of innocent babies. But, our past & present executive, legislative & judiciary branch government officials have been & are yet significantly divided in their opinions as to when hueman life begins. So, the abortion confusion is a diabolical dilema only God can resolve.

See my "pro-choice" comments to you 8/20/08.
---Leon on 8/27/08


Maybe someone could explain this to me--

If a woman is 6 months pregnant and gets killed with her baby- it's called double murder--

but it a woman gets an abortion at the same stage, than it's ok and protected with the law.

Lord save us from our iniquities!!!
---colupy on 8/26/08


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Donna: Those opposed to abortion (usually) are opposed because they believe that abortion is murder. Therefore, if we agree with legislation against murder, then why not agree with government action against abortion? And how would government action against abortion be something that is impractical? I don't believe the analogy you made to be valid at all.
---Bobby3 on 8/26/08


You pro-choice people sure have a warped viewpoint. Donna66, it is illegal to kill people (Thou shalt not kill). What do you mean it's not the law of the land? It's just that women have screamed for the right to kill their children that they don't want to be burdened with and they've gotten it.

Gotta love that 19th amendment which was enacted on this date in 1920. Big mistake in this country's history.

Since you are for unburdening the court system, why not make rape and theft legal as well? That would free up a lot of trial time. Then if you or somebody you know gets robbed or raped you and Leon will undoubtedly be comforted by knowing that they are probably suffering from guilt somewhere and God will judge them.
---ralph7477 on 8/26/08


Maybe abortion is in some ways analogous to adultery. The Ten Commandments forbid it, but not the law of the land. I'm anti-adultery and anti-abortion. But do I favor making both of these criminal offenses?

No. That would be quite impractical. Prosecuting them would overwhelm the legal system. Those who are guilty often suffer penalties beyond what any court could impose. I think our efforts should be directed toward spreading the Gospel. Christianity offers the best (even if not 100% predictable) prevention of immorality.
---Donna66 on 8/25/08


"There aren't any laws, that I'm aware of, against abortion in the U.S. That is definitely a major problem!"

This statement seems to indicate that you would be in favor of laws against abortion. Is this accurate? If so, what exactly does it mean to be "pro-choice"?

"I'm pro-choice but anti-abortion, i.e., PRO-LIFE."

"The U.S. Constitution makes it possible for individuals to be pro-life AND pro-choice and not be in contradiction."

If you are against abortion and would favor laws against it, how is that position NOT a contradiction with the "pro-choice" position?
---Bobby3 on 8/25/08


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Alan: Sorry for the loss of your wife. Tell your granddaughter about her (in detail) & since the two of you were "one" let your late wife's life & joy be expressed to your gran' thru you. :)

I wholeheartedly agree, babies are hueman beings at the moment of conception thru 3 months, birth & beyond.

"How can they do it?" Because of sin that rules/reigns in their hearts & blinds their minds. (2 Tim. 3, 2 Cor. 4:4)) It behoves all Christians to put on the whole armour of God for abortion, etc., indeed is a spiritual battle. (Eph. 6:10-18)
---Leon on 8/25/08


Bobby: There aren't any laws, that I'm aware of, against abortion in the U.S. That is definitely a major problem!

I'm pro-choice but anti-abortion, i.e., PRO-LIFE. Under no circumstances do I want to have any part in supporting the murder of innocent babies in Planned Parenthood clinics, etc. I believe PP shouldn't be funded by our tax dollars. That's where the battle lies in the U.S. The current law is on the side of & funds persons who "choose" to kill the innocent. "We the people" need to fight to defund the murderers.

Nonetheless, there is a higher law & authority, & God will judge, sentence & destroy all murderers.
---Leon on 8/23/08


Leon ... Thanks!!
I do wish though that his/her grandmother was still alive to share the joy.

My reason for telling yuo about it was that this 3 month foetus is ALREADY a person, and recognisable as a human body.

In the UK we have legal abortion up to 28 weeks. How can they do it?
---alan_of_UK on 8/23/08


Leon,

I listened to Janet Parscell on the radio and she had talked to one of the nurses that was involved in one, and there is going to be a movie on this subject. You can go to you tube and type in 22 weeks and see the trailer.

God Bless
colupy
---colupy on 8/22/08


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Leon,

Hannity also has been talking about it on his radio program. colupy
---colupy on 8/22/08


"Well Bobby, because the law is for the lawless, i.e., for sinful huemanity. Laws keep good people (who have the propensity to do evil) in check & requires law breakers to pay consequences for their wayward actions."

How are laws against abortion any different then?

"The U.S. Constitution makes it possible for individuals to be pro-life AND pro-choice and not be in contradiction."

Depends on how you define the terms, I suppose. From what I understand, "pro-life" is synonymous with anti-abortion, and "pro-choice" is, maybe not PRO-abortion, but ANTI-anti-abortion (against anti-abortion).

"I appreciate your sincerity. :)"

As I do yours.
---Bobby3 on 8/22/08


How can you kill a person, even if only 3 months in the womb?
---alan_of_UK on 8/22/08


Congratulations Alan of Uk! Already, she has you wrapped around her little finger. Don't worry, you'll be melting like butter, in her presence "grandpa", after she's born. I know, i.e., been there, doing that. :)
---Leon on 8/22/08


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I AM TO BECOME A GRANDFATHER!!
My daughter showed me pictures from the scan she's had at 3 months.
The child is only about the size of a large fist, but you can clearly see head and arms and legs.
And they saw the scan live, and saw the arms and legs waving about, and the heart beating.
A real person ... already!!
---Alan_of_UK on 8/22/08


"...using that logic, why have laws at all?"

Well Bobby, because the law is for the lawless, i.e., for sinful huemanity. Laws keep good people (who have the propensity to do evil) in check & requires law breakers to pay consequences for their wayward actions.

I appreciate your sincerity. :)
---Leon on 8/22/08


Ralph: I won't dare make a prediction sir, but do eagerly look forward to seeing how the matter turns out in November when God calls the presidential "roll" (deliberates) -- Ps. 75:6-7. :)
---Leon on 8/22/08


Colupy: I'm not familiar with what you said about Senator Obama voting to abort premies. Nor am I aware of him making such statement(s) about his daughters being punished due to unwanted pregnancies. I'll have to research. Can you cite references? Thanks. Without a doubt, abortion is pre-meditated murder.
---Leon on 8/22/08


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Leon

Presidents can't make anyone have an abortion but Obama voted down a law that would have saved a baby being born alive after an abortion. This certain procedure induces a woman to have a premature delivery which allows the baby to live quite a while after birth. Since the baby's lungs are not fully formed, it's just left there to die. No Drs. and nurses are to interfer. And Obama said that if his daughters make a mistake and got pregnant he didn't want them to be punished! God said babies are a blessing!

Which one do you believe?

Read Proverbs 31:8-9
---colupy on 8/21/08


"Are you sure Mr. Obama is promoting abortion by being pro-choice?"

Leon, I included the statement about "promoting abortion" as a quote (made by someone else) to which I responded.
---Bobby3 on 8/21/08


Very good Liam! Becky & I know what you mean, but would you be so kind as to explain in case other bloggers don't. Thanks.
---Leon on 8/21/08


McCain played it well. He knew what the crowd wanted to hear and he said it.

It is his tactic. Drilling offshore will do nothing for us now, and probably won't do much for us in the future. But he says it will and people want to believe and that's what they want to hear. And so says it again and again.

Saying that life begins at the moment of conception (McCain), will not prevent one abortion. But education about birth control (Obama) will prevent millions. Who's telling the truth, McCain or Obama?
---matthew on 8/21/08


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Hey Leon, only God sees the hearts of men. We determine the character of men based on their words and actions as those are the things that affect us.

I'm on record here stating that I wouldn't vote for McCain. I'm against many of his positions. All I'm saying is that whether he truly thinks that life begins at conception or not, he came right out and said it with authority. It doesn't matter where he was when he said it. The interview was shown nationally. According to the polls, most of the country is pro-choice, so he went against the majority and didn't care.

Obama really doesn't have an opinion as to when a baby's life matters? He was a phony.

Prediction: McCain rolls over Obama in Nov...even without my vote.
---ralph7477 on 8/21/08


nurserobert, Maybe we should poll those women with whom he had an affair as well.
---randy on 8/21/08


"Are you sure Mr. Obama is promoting abortion by being pro-choice?"

Never said he did. In fact, his response seemed indicate that he is AGAINST abortion. However, he allowed himself some wiggle room with the way he answered.

"You do know God allows us to choose to do right or wrong, good or evil?"

Yes, sir, I do. It's what happened to Adam and Eve.

"Can the president of the U.S. make citizens not murder babies?"

No. Can he ALLOW them to? Yes.

Leon, using that logic, why have laws at all? After all, it's a person's choice whether or not to do right/good, and the president can't MAKE anyone choose right/good.
---Bobby3 on 8/21/08


It should be noted that while Obama was thinking of a response to the question on the spot, McCain was probably also thinking of his response. Obviously one of those responses is going to seem more structured and coherent.
---liam on 8/21/08


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Randy said: I think a fair question of him and his wife, and all candidates who are pro life, would be what kind of birth control did they use?

Randy, would that be McCain's first wife or the woman who was the reason he got a divorced?

---NurseRobert on 8/20/08


My experience working with drug addict and alcoholic women is that those who had an abortion did not think long and hard about their decision. In fact, the majority of them had abortions for convenience. None of them had abortions because they were victims of rape or incest. The truth is that most receiving abortions are using it as a birth-control method instead of using self-control. For those who have had an abortion, when they do get straight and sober, that is one thing that haunted them most. We need to pray for those women who chose abortion.
---SusieB on 8/20/08


"Boom, done, end of subject."? You're "sure"? Pleeeze!

Ralphie! :D You really don't know Mr. Obama's heart, so don't be so self-righteously rigid. :)

Mr. McCain likely said exactly what was politically expedient considering where he was, but did he really speak his heart? Have you ever once heard him make a profession of Christian faith? Mr. Obama has! However, Mr. McCain did recently called the Dali Lama "his holiness" (?).

It certainly is a character issue. Was Mr. McCain just working the Saddleback crowd? Do we want as president a person who dishonestly dupes citizens or one who honestly states (is real regarding) his position whether we think it's right or wrong?
---Leon on 8/20/08


If McCain believes that human life begins at the moment of conception, I think a fair question of him and his wife, and all candidates who are pro life, would be what kind of birth control did they use? Some birth control prevents ovulation, some fertilization, and some prevents the zygote from being implanted in the uterine wall by his description that would be the same as an abortion. Did he and his wife ever use the later?
---randy on 8/20/08


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Ralph, I want to thank you and others for supporting the unborn. They have no one to protect them but ourselves. And God moves His children to continue to fight for their rights. I have seen the video's on how they use a vacumn to suck out their brains. Sometimes when they are almost ready to be born. I know God will take care of them in Heaven, and I know He will be just in His judgments to those who supported the bruttal taking of a life. I read what Elder wrote on another blog that made a lot of sense. We need more of you to speak out for the babies. Just think if they had been born a few seconds out of the womb and someone killed them they would be sentence for murder, and yet while in the womb, they are nothing. How wrong so many are.
---Mark_V. on 8/20/08


John McCain had no problem answering the same question: A baby gets human rights at the moment of conception. Boom, done, end of subject.

Obama's cute response was indeed well thought out. I'm sure he's been waiting to use that line. But it was a spineless, slick attempt at not having to state his true beliefs. That's OK because we know his true beliefs based on the fact that he supported the proposition that if a baby was born alive after an attempted abortion, the mother/doctor could finish the job because the intention was the the baby be aborted.

So if he doesn't think human rights begin before birth or even after birth, I can see why he wouldn't want to answer the question. It's a character issue, not a legal one Leon.
---ralph7477 on 8/20/08


Sen. Obama stated PLAINLY that he is AGAINST gay marriage, he is pro choice, but suggested working on alternatives to reducing unwanted pregnancies.

"Above his pay grade" was accurate and clever, he knows he's not God.

As for McCain, I'm not so sure he knows that of himself yet.
---Becky on 8/19/08


Bobby3: Are you sure Mr. Obama is promoting abortion by being pro-choice? You do know God allows us to choose to do right or wrong, good or evil? If we do what is right according to His will, as recorded in the Bible, we're blessed. But, if we choose to do evil there are consequence, hell to pay.

In our democratic society we have freedom of choice in many matters. The U.S. Constitution makes it possible for individuals to be pro-life AND pro-choice and not be in contradiction. In other words, one can be diametrically opposed to the murder of innocent babies and yet realize you can't make sinners do what is right. They have to choose for themselves.

Can the president of the U.S. make citizens not murder babies? No!
---Leon on 8/20/08


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I too thought the "above my pay grade" was an interesting response made by Mr. Obama. Unlike you Ralph, giving him the benefit of the doubt, I think Mr. Obama was basically saying God only knows how to "accurately" answer such questions.

Though abortion certainly doesn't please Him, God is definitely long-suffering in this regard. But, His justice ultimately prevails above all individual & governmental sin in the matter.(Is. 55:9)

Consider this: "Innocent", murdered babies immediately go back to God in heaven. But all murderers have their part in the lake of fire. (Rev. 21:8)

I think "Barry's" responses were sincere & well thought out. :)
---Leon on 8/19/08


"His confusion didn't seem to stop him from doing all he could to promote abortions."

When on the topic of abortion, I found it interesting that Obama defended his pro-choice position by saying that those who decide to go through with an abortion think long and hard about the decision, even agonize over it. In other words, he thinks women have the right to choose because their choice will be based on careful thinking. First of all, Obama here is making an assumption and is NOT speaking based on fact. Second, even if someone thinks long and hard about something, he/she can STILL make a WRONG decision.
---Bobby3 on 8/19/08


Obama demonstrated that he is either a phony or just plain dumb.
He claimed that he couldn't figure out when a baby should get human rights because that question was "above his pay grade."
Is this guy for real? His confusion didn't seem to stop him from doing all he could to promote abortions.

A President has to make a lot of tough judgments and decisions, most of which would be beyond Barry's pay grade if this kind of question stumps him.
---ralph7477 on 8/19/08


""'katavasia' Didn't you listen?
Obama was very clear on his beliefs""

And so on.

I've never denied that Obama is a Christian. I've been disgusted by repeated claims on these blogs that he's a Muslim, despite all evidence to the contrary.

I'm not denying that McCain is a Christian.

But being a Christian, even a vocal one, does not mean one will be a good president of the USA.
---katavasia on 8/18/08


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Obamas backers must have felt their candidate made a poor showing. That's usually the case when one side is accused of cheating.
The relative youth and inexperience of Barak Obama is obvious in direct comparison with John McCain.
The question about the most "gut wrenching" decision highlighted it. McCain chose torture and possible death for the sake of his principles. Obama cited his decision to vote against the war. I'm not sure when that occurred, since he was not a US Senator when the Senate voted.
Gut wrenching? His decision didn't send anyone to war. He risked nothing, even politically, by his disapproval of the war.
Rather he was lauded by his party and considered as a presidential candidate.
---Donna66 on 8/18/08


Here is how I feel about Obama,if he were a true christain he would not uphold abortions,that is murder,if he were a true christain,he would not be for gay marriages,especially when God says it is a sin for man to lie with man.{Lev.18:22}
You cant get any plainer than that on what the Bible says on

that subject,then Obama wants to beat around the bush about these two subjects.Is he afraid he will not get elected if he stands against such morals?
---sylvia on 8/18/08


I enjoyed the forum and am glad that I know exactly which candidate is pro-life and which one doesn't mind babies being killed. Personally, I think Rick Warren calling both of those men his friends is a little suspicious. I'd like to know just how much time he has spent with either of them to consider them his friends. Obama carefully thought out his answers as he is beginning to say what he thinks people want to hear. McCain speaks his mind immediately because he already knows what he thinks and doesn't need anyone else to tell him how to think. As far as McCain's adulterous affair, he has openly admitted to that unlike Clinton and Edwards who lied through their teeth until the last. Who knows what skeletons lurk in Obama's closet.
---SusieB on 8/18/08


Becky, walk in McCain's shoes in the POW camp and other aspects this man has lived through. What are we doing? Political stumping for O'Bama. Satan can quote scripture and I am not putting them together. Its apparent you haven't live a lot of life yet. Ask yourself what would Jesus do? Well, he would encourage you to pray for the salvation of both and the will of God be in this election. Neither is innocent of being void of human error and inconsistencies. A sincere prayer will accomplish more than shooting from the hip (Hint). Oh what about 20 years of O'Bama sitting under a hate preaching minister. Who and for what was O'Bama saying "Amen" to in those services?
---Robert on 8/18/08


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'katavasia' Didn't you listen?
Obama was very clear on his beliefs and leaning on Jesus,he quoted several scriptures while speaking. McCain answered as if he was prepped for one of his 'town hall' meetings addressing most questions with 'my friends' before he answered. Sen. Obama carefully thought through his answers so they were worded so all could understand.
He is a bright man and I thought his answers were spot on.
With McCain its 'ME ME ME'. I spent time as a POW, I asked that a fellow prisoner be released before me. I had a 'moment' with a Christian guard. I adopted a baby from overseas (with the wife I had an adulterous affair with) he's an empty shell.
---Becky on 8/18/08


*One other thing: The fact that McCain wasn't in a "cone of silence" during Obama's portion of the forum -- as the New York Times reports today -- is going to be some interesting blog fodder.
---Becky on 8/18/08


It is important to note that although California is considered a Democratic stronghold State, Orange County California is highly Republican. This would definitely have been considered a home game for McCain given the voting demographics that surround the Saddleback campus. In seven years of attending Saddleback, several years ago, I never found Rick Warren to be liberal however the term moderately conservative might be appropriate.
---TIMOTHY on 8/18/08


I favor McCain. His answers were much deeper whereas Obaba babbled on and lost my interest.
McCain didn't have to "think" about his answers, they rolled out of his mouth, "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks." Obama's responses were very carefully thought out. He wants to say the right thing. You can tell he's afriad of saying something wrong and won't get elected. He also said he supports "partial birth abortion" which is sucking a baby's brains out at birth. That is dispicable.
One quick note about Rick Warren: He is way too liberal. He reminds me too much of Jerry Falwell. Is he speaking by the Spirit of God or by his own theology? By what he studied in the word? or by Revelation knowledge?
---donna8365 on 8/18/08


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I give both candidates credit for participating in this forum. This was a risky move for both of them and I look forward to reviewing their answers in depth.
---TIMOTHY on 8/18/08


""I would like to hear that they truly believe Jesus to be "The Son of The Living God" and if elected, will lead in submission to the Spirit of God, continually in prayer.""

George Bush II said this very stuff and look at where it got us.
---katavasia on 8/18/08


This forum was the most valuable of any in the campaign. It was totally fair in that both candidates answered the same questions.
And since they did not appear together, each had the time they needed and there was no temptation to argue.

To date, I've been very disappointed in televised debates (so called) moderated by media people who either want to play "gotcha" or give easy questions only to their favorites. News commentators, it seems to me, are a bit too eager to share the spotlight with candidates. I didn't sense this from Rick Warren.

I felt I understood Mc Cain better after the Saddleback Church Forum, since he's had considerably less media exposure than Obama. Obama offered no surprises, at least to me.
---Donna66 on 8/18/08


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