Salvation Army Bell Ringing
God hates sin more than He loves the sinner, is true. For He is a holy God. His main attribute is HOLINESS. As far as all repenting, When! Man loves their sins too much, is also written. And the last scripture, you do not understand it. It means, now pay attention>>His people calls out to Him for help, He shall help them. HELP ME JESUS! Satan and all his people are surrounding me. Help me please. Understand?
---catherine on 3/30/09|
Catherine, The bible says GOD IS LOVE. so these false preachers you talk about are right.
the bible says but the consequense of sin is DEATH. so GOD DOES NOT PUNNISH US, we only carry the consequense of our OWN SIN, or the sin OF OTHERS.
the bible says GOD WANTS US ALL TO REPENT.
that is why He waits with judgements day.
the bible teaches us that God is JUST AND TRUE, that is why he cannot cover up someones sins. and that is why He gave his son jesus.
the bible says that whoever calls upon the name of the LORD will be saved.
---Andy on 3/30/09|
I serve a holy God who absolutely hates sin. The Bible tells us all about God's judgment upon wicked people and wicked nations. A God who will not punish sin is absolutely no God at all. The Bible tells us of God's anger in the whirlstorms. The Bible is full of such scriptures. Jesus, God is not all love, love, love, as the false [preachers would like for you to believe]. When the wicked man ends up in hell, they are going to wonder, "Why am I in this place? All I heard was God is love". Always put the word holy infront of the word love. God does have great love for His people. His people, whom has been made holy trhough God's Blood. Holy Love.
---catherine on 1/17/09|
Catherine ... God made this world, and His plan was that Man should be wicked
(So it is said by some)
So God is punishing us for what we are.
---alan8566_of_UK on 1/16/09|
Natural disastors>>>God is in control of all weather. Another good one is mother-nature. I checked the Bible no such word exists except in the mind of the wicked man. Scriptures are full of God showing His anger in whirlwinds, storms, earthquakes. It's as if the wicked man might drop dead if they called them for what they are. which is, God's judgment upon a wicked world.
---catherine on 11/29/08|
I've had to evacuate more than once from a natural disasters. The presence of the Red Cross at evacuation centers was scarcely visible, but the Salvation Army was every where with food, bottled water, blankets and offering every thing from hotel accommodations to clean clothing to child-care and pet-care.
I support them whenever I have a chance.
---Donna66 on 11/29/08|
Susie B/Darlene 1, Thanks for your kind words.The small pentecostal church that my wife was involved in has now grown to some 1800 members and moved to a huge new church,they use to change pastors on a regular basis but the one now has been there for 20+ yrs and runs it like a business. His wife is now also "Reverend Maureen" A title that was shunned in the early church. The "shepherd" does not know his sheep! He runs it like a "sunday country club"(very popular)Surrounded by a group of disciples that say "yes Pastor"!
---1st_cliff on 10/28/08|
No, I have not, but would love to be able to offer my time to this activity. I think it is great way to raise money for charity. I have always admired the work the Salvation Army does.
Bless you for your time and attention,you are giving, to this great organization.
---Robyn on 10/27/08|
Pottsy...The Salvation Army is not self-funded as you said. They received billions of dollars of government grants a year as well as billions of dollars in donations worldwide. Check their website and you will find that the dollars worldwide amount to billions.
---SusieB on 10/27/08|
1st Cliff I'm so sorry to hear about your wife. Did you ever inform them you and your wife would love for the people in the Church to keep in touch? Sometimes people feel like they maybe shouldn't bother you so you have to let them know you welcome their attention. Pastors seldom continue to visit over the long term of health problems. I'm Pentecostal also and I have found that the best Denomination to visit and send cards is the Southern Baptist. I'm sure there are others I don't know about,but I do know people are more inclined to visit those with temporary illnesses than long term ones. Mom and I both are Members of a church,listed as Shutins since we are disabled,and we never get visits from anyone including the New Pastor. We don't care.
---Darlene_1 on 10/27/08|
1st Cliff...Our friends also had a similar situation. He has been an ordained minister and pastor with a pentecostal organization for 40+ years. About fifteen years ago his wife developed a mental illness. The church officials in that state decided that she was demon possessed and wanted nothing to do with the couple. When we met them, they were in dire need of food as well as some friends. My friend and I decided that we would make sure the couple had what they needed. When I married my husband he welcomed them as his friends and has been able to minister to them many times. I know your struggle with caring for your wife.
---SusieB on 10/27/08|
Hello, as a former recepient of the benefits of The Salvation Army Adult Rehablilation Center in Ft Worth Tx, I can tell you that they deserve your help. This is an entirely self-funded organization that cares about people in need. They turned my life around, by introducing God back into my life, as well as giving me a safe, clean, positive environment in which to do so. They are now my top charity.
J Potts TX
---Pottsy on 10/26/08|
Cliff .. I'm sorry to hear of the long term disability of your wife, and your need to care for her. I can understand your disappointment with the local church community. Perhaps they judge you havew not prayed with enough faith for her recovery, and so have rejected you? That does happen.
I would not be able to care for people in the hospice, for that was where my wife died. But I work in their fund-raisng shops, to enable them to provide similar love and care to other terminally ill people.
I am retired so am able to do this, and other voluntary jobs as well.
---alan_of_UK on 10/26/08|
Alan & 1st Cliff:-Reading your Posts is reminiscent of what the Lord said in Exodus.22:21-27 I think this is where charity starts from, to love your neighbour, share your talents and enrich one another.Sorry to hear about your wife, 1st Cliff.20 years is a long Haul which you carry lightly.Blessings.
---Mic on 10/26/08|
Alan , I laud and admire those of you who have the disposition to work with the terminally ill .I'm not blessed with that ability! We have a local branch of "hospice" not connected to any religious denomination. Unfortunitly I'm not able to be a volunteer,it takes all my time caring for a severly handicapped wife and putting food on the table! She was Penticostal for most of her life. Does the Pastor or any of the congregation care or visit? Nah, not once in 20 years!Do I have a chip on my shoulder? yah,you could say that!
---1st_cliff on 10/26/08|
Susie B, Thanks,I stand corrected!
---1st_cliff on 10/25/08|
Cliiff ... Your observation was made so as to suggest something, so was an outrageous accusation.
Yes ... I do work for free ... in a charity shop, supporting the local hospice.
Goods are donated (which could not possibly be used directly by the hospice, and sold, the profits go to providing the services of the hospice.
Our few paid staff receive something like the minimum wage.
The same applies to SA shops. There is no reason why any church should not have an arm which stops unwanted goods being trashed, and passes them to those that can't afford full price, and covering costs and making a surplus for use in helping the helpless.
My church does not run a shop, but occasionally have "jumble sales".
---alan_of_UK on 10/25/08|
1st Cliff....The Salvation Army no longer makes their homeless clients attend chapel service. They can't do that anymore due to receiving all kinds of government funds which have strings attached which make it impossible for the Salvation Army to make them go to church. This happened several years ago.
---SusieB on 10/24/08|
Alan, I see no accusation here ,just "observation" !Some are full time employees and some are volunteers. Do you work for free? They have stores here called Salvation Army Thrift Stores where they sell donated gifts! NO accusation just obsevation. Is your church in the "retail business" selling donated gifts?
---1st_cliff on 10/24/08|
Cliff ... Since you seem now to accuse SA members of taking the money donated to the SA, it seems our discussion must come to an end.
---alan_of_UK on 10/24/08|
Alan, Have you actually seen the SA go to *messy unglamorous places?"* They have that reputation,but actually those people come to them for the free meal. They feed the homeless,but 1st make them sit thru a lengthy sermon,which they suffer just for the meal!(my son is one of them,being hopelessly addicted to crack cocaine for 25yrs.)They give them clothing etc..all which has bee donated,like the food,and served by volunteers,so it actually costs them nothing and they benefit from the over generous people! Have you ever seen a poor SA member?
---1st_cliff on 10/23/08|
Cliff ... Why do yuo support thise charities? Do you do it "blind" and just trust that their name gives a true indication of what they do and how effective they are?
No, I bet you have some material from them, so you can make up your mind.
Like you I support several, but don't boast how much.
I also give to the SA, because they go where no one else has the courage to go. They go to the messy, unglamorous plaaces to love the unloveable. All power to them!
---alan_of_UK on 10/23/08|
Alan, The cancer society,heart and stroke foundation,veterans org.hospital, etc.. but no one knows to whom or how much we give.On a more personal level we help those close to us,but again no one else knows.The right hand does not tell the left (so to speak) There's no glory in it for us! WE do not belong to a "denomination" (church)Pictures in the church lobbies boast of the accomplishments in the "mission fields" Our mission field is right here at home!God sees us ,we don't need uniforms or fanfare!
---1st_cliff on 10/23/08|
I for one am glad that the various charities that I support let me know what they are doing. If I did not know I would not support them
Do you support any charities? If so, how do you know which ones to help?
Does your right hand know what your left hand is doing? If so, you arebrewaking the literal instructioms.
---alan_of_UK on 10/23/08|
Alan, Vs.3 is dealing with secrecy,actually motive,the appearance of "righteousness". The SA are very visable to all with their "uniforms and loud marching bands" now that they have your attention,publish all the "good" works they are doing especially at Christmas! Everyone says "My what a good people they are,helping all those unfortunates" As vs.2 says "They are getting their reward in the full" Does their right hand know what the left is doing? Everyone knows! Will God reward in secret?
---1st_cliff on 10/23/08|
Cliff ... and perhaps yuo can tell me precisely how we are able to follow the specific instruction of verse 3?
If you look at the following passage, it is clear it is all about wanting to appear righteous, and boasting.
---alan_of_UK on 10/22/08|
It applies Cliff to individuals who may otherwise be wanting to be seen to be giving.
Have you ever seen the SA giving tothe needy, have you ever seen a SA mewmber boasting that he has visited a prison?
Let's face it Cliff ... you have a thing against the SA ... but think it through ...have YOU been seeking the destitute and visiting those in prison
I have to admit I have not, but I do not condmmn those who do, but support them in their loving of the unloveable.
Did the Good Samaritan hold back his money because he would have been breaking Jesus' principles by giving moneyto help the Jew?
---alan_of_UK on 10/21/08|
OK Alan, Just this one time, give me your interpretation of Mat.6.1-4. And who it applies to!
---1st_cliff on 10/21/08|
Cliff ... I think it is you who are wrongly treateing "my brothers" as literal, and not thinking further.
"The druggie,the alcoholic,the criminal etc are His Brothers??" Well, YES, they may be, or may become His brothers. Who are we to judge?
"Go out into the world & save sinners" Feeding, clothing and visiting ... is that not part of it, & alongside spitiual salvation?
The state provides help to those who ask ... The SA goes goes out to find those in need of help.
You are a mighty hard man if you think that is unChristian.
---alan_of_UK on 10/20/08|
Alan, Your problem is that you only see the literal suface of scripture. Jesus said" Whatever you did for one of the least of these BROTHERS OF MINE..." The druggie,the alcoholic,the criminal etc are His Brothers?? NO! You obviously don't get what He,s talking about!This is not a "literal"prophecy,It's dealing with "spiritual" matters. Eliminating "poverty" is high on the agenda of all our political parties. WE,the tax payer,will foot the bill.
---1st_cliff on 10/18/08|
Cliff ... I care nothing about what political parties promise at election tiem, for I know they will not carry them out.
Did Jesus say that He wanted us to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and visit those in prison?
He said he would turn away those who had not done this.
I have no shame at all about feeding the homeless through soup-runs, and supporting night shelters for the homeless, and admire tremendously those who are brave enough to visit prisoners, and welcome them back into the community and find them shelter and jobs.
The state doesn't do it, the SA does, and Jesus is using them.
---alan_of_UK on 10/17/08|
Alan,You're right,I strayed from the "original" query,but still on the subject of SA! Jesus is the "Example" did He set up a soup kitchen to feed the homeless,drug addicts,alcoholics..etc. or as the bible says, He went Preaching the good news of the Kingdom? When questioned He said "The poor you always have with you"Jn.12.8. Like I mentioned, we do have social agencies to look after the "poor". We just had an election and every party's "platform" included money to look after these issues!
---1st_cliff on 10/16/08|
There are thousands of ministers in this country who are going to the prisoners, homeless, etc., without asking for a dime from anyone. Lots of churches feed the hungry and clothe people without asking for money to do it. When long-time SA officers retired, they are given a generous retirement package, often times including a five-figure cash amount to pay for a home and furniture. I know of one retiring officer who had a client do the landscaping in his new home without paying the client. This happened more times than I want to talk about.
---SusieB on 10/16/08|
Cliff ... You may not be aware of the work the SA does in the UK. Here they reach those the "social services" never get near
I am certainly not aware of the adverts that yuo mention ... presumably they are inNorth America.
ButI doubt very much whether they say "look at us aren't we grest doing all this good" Rather, I suspect "This is what we do ... we need your help" As they do.
Your original objection asked where all the money went. I am sure more goes on administration in the "social services" than in a charity such as the SA
In yours of 10/9 you chided me for talking off the subject of the SA, but you had done this yourself in your previous post
---alan_of_UK on 10/16/08|
Alan, As usual,you misinterpret the whole gist of my argument! It`s very noble and Christian to aid those in need. There are numerous social agencies that do a similar work. During their `Red shield appeal`they sponsor adds that show them doing `charity`saying `Look at us,and all the good we`re doing in Jesus`name ,give generously` How does that correlate with Mat.6.1-4. Does the end justify the means.
---1st_cliff on 10/16/08|
What was is Jesus said about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and the prisoners?
The SA is one of the main organisations who actually gets down to doing these things rather than just talking about it.
Maybe Cliff thinks it is wrong to do these things.
(Mind you the RCC does these things too ... heard of the Society of St Vincent de Paul? ... so let's slag them off as well)
The reason the SA don't have comminion ia that in their early years & still (praise the Lord) they rescue men & women from the gin bars, and realise that to give them wine could drag them back into alcoholic ways.
(I am neither RC nor Salvation Army)
---alan_of_UK on 10/16/08|
The Salvation Army does a wonderful work of love. They have eleven Charities they support including Fighing Human Traffficking,Missing Persons,Disaster Relief,Addiction Rehab,Prisoner Rehab,Elderly Sevices,Loneliness,Christmas Charity and others. Any ministry needs funds to make ministry run. It's always easy for armchair policeman to declare they aren't doing it right,but that doesn't make them right. Giving to SA pot on street hardly qualifies as announcing how much one gives,only God and the giver knows. Thats better than one can say about church giving for a record is kept and a statement sent at the end of the year. God must cringe when he hears someone downing a ministry which is doing as he said,loving and giving to those who need it.
---Darlene_1 on 10/15/08|
Cliff ... "So when you give to the needy do not announce it with trumpet,as the hypocrites do ...on the streets to be honored by men"
It is you who stretched it! You are impertinent to ascribe that motive to their actions.
The SA do not use the bugles when they serve the poor.
---alan_of_UK on 10/14/08|
Alan, Then maybe you'll be good enough to explain the meaning of Mat.6, 1-4 ."So when you give to the needy do not announce it with trumpet,as the hypocrites do...on the streets to be honored by men""when you give to the needy... your giving may be in secret" Let's not streach it Alan, sackcloth has never been a "uniform". Altho some trades ,schools etc. wear uniforms it is mostly identified with the "Military" SA call themselves Christian soldiers, Does Christ need or even suggest a human "army"??
---1st_cliff on 10/13/08|
Cliff ... The Salvation army blowing bugles to attract attention is no different to a street preacxher, church bells, or a man dressed in the uniform of sack-cloth
---alan_of_UK on 10/13/08|
By the way, for those who don't already know, the Salvation Army does not believe in baptism or communion. There are individual officers who do these two things in their services, but the organization itself do not practice them.
---SusieB on 10/11/08|
Alan, You're saying there are different "principles"for individuals and groups? It's OK to beat the drum and blow the bugle telling the world how good they are to the poor,but individually we must give in secret? That's double standards and unchristian!(Mat.6.1-4) Did Jesus dress up in Roman uniforms with General Peter and Sargent Thomas? Who is the model that the SA pattern themselves after? Certainly not Jesus! It was the Roman military that crucified Him! You can be a "Christian"soldier but not a militant Christian!
---1st_cliff on 10/11/08|
1st Cliff ...Iwas responding to your blanket disapproval of charities
As to the Salvation Army, I don't think anyone confuses them with the military.
And I see Metthew 6 as referring to personal showiness.
---alan_of_UK on 10/10/08|
Hi Charles :) I LOVE what you said about your growing-up years and the impression the singing left on you. You're right--now it seems to be all about the money--sad but true. I kind of wish we could turn back time sometimes, don't you?
---Mary on 10/9/08|
Alan, Since the subject here is the SA ,you have to admit that they do the exact opposite of Christ's admonition of Mat 6,1-4. Either, as a Christian, we follow His leading or pretend to be and make up our own rules. Wearing military uniforms and holding a military rank,in the name of Christianity is bogus! Certainly not the example Jesus set. Right?
---1st_cliff on 10/9/08|
1st Cliff ... Since I can't personally go to Africa to show the [eople how to feed themselves, and about clean water, I give to aChristian organisation that does that, without using excessive amounts on administration.
Google "Send a Cow"
---alan_of_UK on 10/9/08|
Alan, You're right my view is "jaded". Where there's a buck to be made,the scammers are there. Under the guise of helping the poor in Africa,saving the rain forrests, feeding the starving children etc.etc. Administration takes the cream off the top! Jesus never set the example of begging for money for any "charity" (incidently I'm Canadian) As far as charity is concerned He said -Mat.6 1-4. "Don't let your right hand know what the left hand is doing" Alms were to be given "discreetly" not with "fanfare"!
---1st_cliff on 10/8/08|
Kella....As a former employee, I will tell you one thing. Ask the local Corps Commander how much of the proceeds out of those kettles go to support the church instead of the social programs. We were once Soldiers who considered becoming officers until we realized it is all about the money. My husband was asked how he would evangelize the Mormons if we were sent to a certain town which was primarily Mormon. He said, "Just like anyone else. I'd tell them about Jesus." The Commander said, "How would you do that so you wouldn't offend them since they are good donors?" The prizes we gave out for the children learning lessons in the children's programs came from a room full of toys. They were left overs from Christmas.
---SusieB on 10/8/08|
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I have always supported the S.A. through their collection boxes but gave a big donation via the internet after Katrina. Since then I have been inundated with requests for money. Four times I have asked to be removed from their mailing list but they still come.
I had one 2 days ago and another will definitely come before Christmas I am certain.
I regret sending my gift by internet because they obviously got my address through my using my card to pay. I will waste no more postage stamps and will shred any mail which comes from them in future.
I feel really sad about this because they are wasting donated money on unwanted paperwork. I can see no way to stop this.
---RitaH on 10/8/08|
Yes its a nice thought but its not my cuppa i always remember in my younger days that in UK where i lived every sunday they would come to our street and all stand around in a circle and sing gospel songs and with their tambourines , i was always there to see them and loved it although i never knew Jesus , but that stayed with me all these years, till 30 years later i became a born again christian, now all you see is someone holding out a bag for donations which i ignore, and thats the Salvo's for this century , money money money , no preaching Sad. charles
---charles on 10/8/08|
Kella: My son was a bell ringer in high school. He has memories of freezing outside of Wal-Mart, but I am proud that he participated in a job that supported that organization.
Cliff: The Salvation Army is not one of those organizations that has the administrative wastes.
---Trish9863 on 10/7/08|
Cliff ... You have a very jaded view of charities.
Maybe in the States it is like that but seldom in the UK
---alan_of_UK on 10/7/08|
I hope I am mistaken, but I believe the SA has adopted the pro-choice position.
---katavasia on 10/7/08|
Kella,It's a very noble thought,but a case of the end justifying the means.They are ,in my eyes, the epitome of "professional beggers". Can you imagine Jesus ringing a bell and asking for money? Ah,but look at the good they do,some say. Sure,but does anyone really know where that pot of money goes? "Administration" eats up most of the money donated to "cheritable" organizations. Maybe this is different,maybe not! Just musing!
---1st_cliff on 10/7/08|