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Was Eve Carnal Before Fall

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit and did eat. Was Eve carnal or spiritual before the fall of sin? Did Eve's desire to obey God fail when she saw the fruit? When did it fail?

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Adam and Eve were created as flawed humans from the get-go. Otherwise Snakey would have failed in his attempt to get them to sin. God bless.
---JohnnyB on 3/16/09


Adam and Eve had to both be "carnal beings", as in "of the flesh", because...

Ge 3:22 ...lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Oh, and t:

Ge 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Do you actually read the Bible: or do you just make up stuff because it sounds good? Mother Earth? You oughta get along famously with Al Gaia.
---BruceB on 3/16/09


There is no middle ground for humanbeings. Adam and Eve were the first humanbeings which God created. Adam and Eve walked with God, and talked with God. And God with them. Until the fall. [Any person who is doing this is spiritual]. Adam and Eve were more spiritual, than you or I, [God's people]. Until the fall. God created us to be spiritual. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, if it had not been for the evil one, Satan!>>>> Here comes Jesus, and His Blood.
---catherine on 3/12/09


The question,"Was Eve carnal or spiritual before the fall of sin"? And the answer is neither, Adam and Eve were both INNOCENT before the fall!!! The fall WAS brought about my failure to trust_(blindly trust without any experimentation) the word of Almighty God!!! Adam clearly was led astray by the force and drive we call human sexuality. Adam knew Eve had done wrong but rather than lose his physical companion, remember there was no other humans on Earth, Adam violated his own conscience and knowledge and thus the need for Grace was imposed in the world at the same time as the fall of Adam and Eve!!
---mima on 3/10/09


John I believe that Adam was jealous of his wife and delivered her to the devil and because of that God made him eat from the tree of good and evil too. Afterwords they hid from the presence of the Lord. When God found them Adam stated "the woman that you gave me, had me eat from the tree." Adam blamed God and the woman for everything. Eve stated the truth. The serpent decieved me and I did eat from the tree. Many things have been hidden for centuries that are just now coming to light.
---t on 3/4/09




Evil is the result of Adams rebellion. Romans 5:12
---t on 3/4/09


kath4453-

Adam was made of the earth, his name means red earth. Do you ever wonder why they call woman Mother Earth when it was Adam that was of the earth? There is a conspiracy against holy women today. Why is that a woman can only be guilty of adultry and a man can have several wives and concubines???The Bible is his-tory. Eve was made spirtually from the rib of man, her name means life.
---t on 3/4/09


But the Bible clearly states that God commanded the man not to eat from the tree of good and evil. Nowhere does it state that Eve knew about the fruit.
---t on 3/4/09


John-But Chapters 1 or 2 does not reflect that.
---t on 3/4/09


Her desire to obey God vanished when she gave in to Satan, plucked the fruit, and tasted it. Before the fall, Eve was not only spiritual, but flesh and blood.
---Betty on 3/1/09




Eve was spiritual, before the fall. Believers today are also to walk in the spirit, just like Adam and Eve before they disobeyed God and was kicked out of the garden, which probably was within one day.
---catherine on 2/25/09


---john here is the verses you refer to,
Genesis 3:2-3
" 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die"

May I submit,
When Eve says, "God hath said", she is not saying that God said it to her.
---mima on 2/25/09


God commanded the man not to eat from the tree. Why does it state that God only commanded the man? Because Eve did not know about the fruit. The serpent said to her "Did God really say not to eat from the tree?" Eve replied, "God has said we may eat from every tree except for the tree of good and evil." But chapter 1 does not say that Eve knew or that Adam ever told her about the fruit.
---tonne on 2/25/09


tonne. According to her testimony in Gen 3:2-3 God had told her the same thing he told Adam. That she could eat of every tree except the one. Everything is in order with this account.
---john on 2/25/09


I do not believe that Eve knew about the apple in the garden.
---tonne on 2/25/09


How come in chapter 1 it doesn't state that Adam or God told Eve about the fruit in the garden? But in Chapter 2 Eve states, that God has said that we may eat of the fruit? Chapter 1 does not coincide with Chapter 2
---tonne on 2/25/09


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---Kathr4453:***Flesh and Blood CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God.....We are not being restored back to what Adam/Eve were before the fall.***

Amen~Kathr~Amen

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 1/8/09


ShawnT I'm glad you understand this. It is so important this is taught...( as it is not today).

The SEED is Christ...stated in Galatians. We are not that seed. We are united ( made one )with Christ...just as Eve was taken out of Adam's rib. We are not separate little seeds...stated again in Galatians....there is only ONE SEED, and that seed is Christ.

John also states the SEED is in us. Christ in you...the Hope of Glory.

Just as Jesus died and rose again...we identify in His death and resurrection life with HIM at Calvary.

Old things pass away Behold ALL THINGS become BRAND NEW

Flesh and Blood CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God.....We are not being restored back to what Adam/Eve were before the fall.
---kathr4453 on 1/7/09


--Kathr:**Actually the seed has to DIE to be raised up**

Amen~Kathr~Aman, This is definitely more of the Truth that I would have share but we are under a 125 limit. I'm glad you shared it because it needs to be heard in faith to edify the unity & understanding of the Body of Christ in discern the Wisdom of the Word of God.

-*-*-Miche: Here is something else that good to behold! Revealing Adam was sow a 'natural' body~which isn't the flawed carnal sinful nature of the evils of sin.

1Cor.15:44,46 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural, and afterward that which is spiritual.
---Shawn_M.T. on 1/6/09


**


The seed is Adam & the flower is the Quickened Christ.

Before God made Adam in/of the earth, He Created him perfectly with every ability that Adam need(including the choice of death) so that we all through Christ Jesus could be raised up into Glory!**

ShawnT James says all flesh withers and dies. Actually the seed has to DIE to be raised up . We too in Adam 1 DIED with Christ at calvary. OUR HISTORY in Adam 1's ENDED when we received Jesus Christ buried/Baptized into His Death, and raised a NEW CREATION.

Even our Heavenly bodies will be fashioned like His...and we don't even know what that will be...but we know we will be like Him.

---kathr4453 on 1/6/09


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--Miche:

1 Cor.15:36-37 reveals that, the body that shall be raised in the harvest is not the same body of the seed that was sown in the earth!

We don't plant a flower to grow a flower: we plant a seed(requiring inside of itself, perfectly very thing it needs) to grow a flower.

The seed is Adam & the flower is the Quickened Christ.

Before God made Adam in/of the earth, He Created him perfectly with every ability that Adam need(including the choice of death) so that we all through Christ Jesus could be raised up into Glory!

All of God's Creation was very good & perfectly equiped to be sown in the earth, for raising up unto the Lord our God a Glorious Harvest of 'Spiritually Quickened Children'.
---Shawn_M.T. on 1/6/09


Amen both of you kath and shawn.
Why can't others of our brothers and sisters have edifying conversations like this? we don't always agree(we 3) but man I love our conversations and I learn so much!

God bless you both!!

Miche, you are correct in saying Adam & Eve were not PERFECT. But IN CHRIST who is OUR life...we are perfect IN HIM alone. Adam & Eve were not gods. Even Angels were not perfect. Only God is Perfect. -kathr
This is so true!
shawn can you elaborate on it.
1Cor.15:36-37
I feel I just merely scratched the surface!
---miche3754 on 1/6/09


Miche, you are correct in saying Adam & Eve were not PERFECT. But IN CHRIST who is OUR life...we are perfect IN HIM alone. Adam & Eve were not gods. Even Angels were not perfect. Only God is Perfect.

Adam & Eve were CARNAL beings...fleshly beings, made out of the dust and clay of earth. In Christ, we will be Glorified beings together with Christ. Adam & Eve were never promised or given that opportunity. Even if they ate from the tree of Life, they would be still clay-mations who lived forever. AND never would they be seated with Christ in Heavenly Places as we are.
---kathr4453 on 1/6/09


---Miche3754:***God suspected this might happen or he would not have made provision for it***

Amen~Miche~Amen, God indeed did know man would fall!...and to understand the TRUTH of why Adam fell we need to rightly discern 1Cor.15:36-37, which reveals why Adam was made a 'Living Soul' & the last Adam became a 'Quicken Spirit'!

God Bless Sister
---Shawn_M.T. on 1/6/09


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What shawn and kath fail to realize is IF Adam and Eve had been made perfect, they would not have sinned and Jesus would not have needed to take flesh. They were not told to eat of the tree of life- eternal life with God. But they didn't choose that.
God said it was very Good or Good he did not say perfect. God suspected this might happen or he would not have made provision for it then right after the fall happened. Gen. 3:15

And does God say that HE is the potter and we are the malformed clay. But when Jesus came and we accept him, God reforms this lump of Clay.
We were not perfect from the beginning, We were mere images of God NOT Gods before the fall or what you say as perfect.
---miche3754 on 1/6/09


---Miche3754:***The HolySpirit teaches us how to do this and it strengthens our walk with God. Without Jesus it can't be done***

Amen~Miche, We can do all things through Christ who strengths us!

Miche, In Matt.13:3-8 Jesus is speaking of the sower which is God & His seed being sown in different sorts of ground. But there's no such thing as 'BAD seed'!

Destructive spirit aren't sower of seeds! Destructive spirit exist to only tries to steal,kill & destroy(John 10:10) the seed which is God's Word, sown in our hearts! This is revealed as well by Jesus in Matt.13:3-8.

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 1/5/09


--Kathr:

Amen~Kathr, Your right God's Glory is wonderful to behold and we shouldn't concern ourself with looking for the proof of His Truth!

I view it all as an opportunity to hear in the Spirit & be put in remembrance of the iniquities that unbeknown to me, are in my heart: in need of repentance! And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men(Acts 24:16).

Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby(Heb.12:11).

Like Abraham by the drawing of God to faith Adam & Eve could've experienced this Glory we've found in Christ!
---Shawn_M.T. on 1/5/09


**Adam & Eve were blessed with the Glory of being made in the Goodness of God's Image as 'living souls'...and shall through faith be quickened & raised into Glory within Christ!***

Isn't it amazing that NOW WE are quickened and raised up IN CHRIST through the spirit of the Life of the Risen Christ in us...as we speak!!! Adam & Eve never experienced this.


Isn't it amazing ShawnT that the END is so much more than the beginning. Oh the ways & wisdom of God...!!!

So why spend all this time on finding MOTIVE for Eve's failure. Only God knows her motive. She just believed a snake in the grass. We are warned their is still a snake in the grass...scripture doesn't say she was!
---kathr4453 on 1/5/09


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--Kathr:

Thank for keeping me in remembrance! Allow me to do the same for you. Before the evils of sin entered God Creation, everything was 'Perfectly Good' without the flaws of the evils of sin found in the carnal sin nature of the flesh. Adam & Eve were perfectly made in the Image of God, & having the ability to choose evil was part of God's Image(Gen.2:17).

Adam & Eve were blessed with the Glory of being made in the Goodness of God's Image as 'living souls'...and shall through faith be quickened & raised into Glory within Christ!

To understand the TRUTH of 'The Fall of Man' we need to rightly discern 1Cor.15:36-37 to know why Adam was made a 'Living Soul' & the last Adam became a 'Quicken Spirit'!
---Shawn_M.T. on 1/5/09


shawn
Lets look at this in the context of seeds.

Jesus says that the "ground" has to be fertile to except the seed good or bad.

In the Beginning, the world around Adam & Eve was perfect but they were not.

If they had been, the "seed" that satan sewed would not have taken.
But their ground was fertile to accept this lie that he told.
The only person ever made perfect was Jesus.

Also, Jesus was explaining How the seed of sin is planted within us. How it operates so that we can recognize it, capture it, and put it away. The HolySpirit teaches us how to do this and it strengthens our walk with God. Without Jesus it can't be done.
---miche3754 on 1/5/09


Even when the Truth is given, they cannot accept it and move on. Even when they tarnish God's Work in creation. They have to argue over and over to find anything that can give them some credibility. They contrive many idea's to make that credibility mean something. They just don't want to be looked upon as been wrong. There is nothing wrong in been wrong if you correct where you are wrong at. Humbleness should never be hard for a Christian.
---MarkV. on 1/5/09


--Miche3754:

In the beginning everything was 'Perfect'! 'Perfectly Good' or 'Perfectly Evil'. There wasn't these different shades of gray that make up our sin nature of 'good & evil'.

The Spirit of God is everything that is Perfectly Good! Adam & Eve weren't Gods but the nature they were given was in the image of the Spirit of everything Good.

Miche, Jesus was explaining how we're kept in remembrance of our offences when we come before God. Jesus clearly stated that just the thought of our iniquities was already sin in our hearts and needed repentance & reconciling!

Please, If you could kindly reread, starting at, Matt.5:23-28 you'll come to understand how our Lord Jesus was sharing the Word.

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 1/5/09


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ShawnT, First lets remember the lamb was slain from before the foundation of the world. This doesn't mean Jesus Christ was actually crucified before the foundation of the world,but that God KNEW from before the foundation of the world that He had a PLAN..in bringing many Sons into sharing HIS GLORY. Adam/Eve were NOT Glorified beings as WE, In Christ WE will be. You see, THIS is the Mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world. This was not even disclosed in the OT, but was revealed AFTER the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Mystery is CHRIST in you. Adam/Eve did not possess Christ in them.

If Adam/Eve never sinned,they would still be running around naked through a SMALL piece of real estate .
---kathr4453 on 1/4/09


Do you both believe there could be an imperfection in God's Creation which He Himself beholding every thing that he had made said, it was Very Good?-shawn m.t.

I believe so. God said lets make man in our image. He didn't say "exactly like". It's just like looking in a mirror. Image isn't the real person.
Adam - image of God.
Jesus- God, part of God, physical form of God.
+ God said "very good", not "perfect".

Shawn, I believe Jesus was explaining HOW sin manifest and what we do with it. The thought itself isn't the sin, it's what you do with it.
When you look at a woman, do you think on it(leading to sin), or cast it away(righteousness)?
Should've explained like this in 1st place :-).
---miche3754 on 1/4/09


--Kathr:*Adam & Eve were innocent but quite capable of sin or else they would not have done it**

Amen~As well to the above remark!

-*-*-Miche & Kathr, Before the 'Fall': Do you both believe there could be an imperfection in God's Creation which He Himself beholding every thing that he had made said, it was Very Good?

*Sin had already entered the universe...and Satan..was right there in the Garden tempting Eve**

Sin & its wages 'Death' did exist, but not in God's Perfect Creation because Adam was obedient unto God's Word! Sin only ENTERED into the Creation God called 'Very Good', after Adam was disobedient unto the Word of God: upon which everything was tainted with the curse of a sinful nature!

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 1/4/09


--Miche:**a sin does not become a sin until it is acted out**

Miche, whosoever looks at a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. The iniquities of sin are already in our hearts do to being born with a sinful nature!2Peter2:14

Having a sinful nature is distinctly different from just being born into sin! Jesus was tempted in all points, like us, but was perfect without sin: not just because He didn't fall into temptation but because He wasn't born with the sinful nature of the curse.

Paul isn't tell us to examine temptation but to cast it down, every imagination & high thing that exalt itself against the knowledge of God: 'bringing into captivity' EVERY THOUGHT TO OBEDIENCE OF Christ.
---Shawn_M.T. on 1/4/09


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shawn, I agree.
But still, a sin does not become a sin until it is acted out.

That is why Paul tells us to hold every thought captive, examine it to see if there is possible sin behind it. That is, temptation.

Babies are yes, born innocent and into sin.

But doesn't Jesus say he was born into sin

what does being born into sin mean?
Jesus was God in the flesh this also made him perfect but was still able to be tempted.
He could have fallen for Satan's tempting but he said he was here to do God's will not his own. This is also what makes Jesus perfect.
To be born into sin means with the ability to be tempted and fall.
---miche3754 on 1/3/09


***Adam and Eve were innocent but quite capable of sin or else they would not have done it. If they had been perfect, when they were tempted, they WOULD NOT HAVE FALLEN. BUT THEY DID!***

Miche, so true. Sin had already entered the universe, and Satan, a fallen angel was right there in the Garden tempting Eve,just as he tempted 1/3 of the angels to follow him.

When all is said and done, the New Heaven and earth will have NO EVIL to enter in and tempt anyone! What a contrast!

Man was made LOWER then the Angels, but when it is all said and done,the Church will actually be in a position higher then the Angels,Seated with Christ,Joint Heirs with Christ This was never promised to Adam & Eve, and never promised to Angels.
---kathr4453 on 1/3/09


--MarkV:

MarkV, Amen~Very well writen! A sinful nature can be difficult at first to fully understand or accept.

Sin Nature came about do the 'Fall': it's the Curse. Temptation(motive) to disobey comes from destructive spirits. Temptation(motive)+Sin Nature=Sinner.

-*-*-Miche, Babies aren't born with motive! Motives(temptations) are already here in the earth. Babies aren't sinners because they're taught to sin. Babies are sinners because they're born with a sinful nature that's coupled with the motives(temptations) to disobey which are in the earth.

Although Jesus was tempted as we are, He wasn't considered a sinner because He wasn't born with a sinful nature.
---Shawn_M.T. on 1/2/09


Thank you brother Shawn, you phrase it very well even from the beginning, "to whoever has an ear to hear" We need more of your comments brother and others because the scope of the work is so big. Thank you again brother for responding. People need to hear what you have to say for the glory of God.
---MarkV. on 1/2/09


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I often wondered why the saying was "Women like to ape mAn"Adam was created in Gods likenesss.and I think the answer lies in Mikes Previous Post. Now ladies!! I am stating a fact but it is just a few so if the cap fits Then attack me. But this is just one of MHO's
---MIC on 1/2/09


Eve was just like we are before the fall. She was tempted by the idea of "becoming like God" the devil told her, "Surely you won't die...God knows that once you eat of this you will be like Him..."
The desire to be equal to or above God is what caused her to Sin. Same problem Lucifer had when he said in his heart that he would be like God and that he was deserving of worship.
---Mike on 1/2/09


To Whosoever has an ear to hear?

'A sinful nature is considered Carnal'

Eve wasn't carnal before the 'fall'. Adam & Eve were 'Living Souls' created in the image of God, which isn't of a sinful nature!

Before the serpent approached Eve, she had already seeing & know of the tree of knowledge & its fruits through the commandment of God, to not eat of it.

A desire started to grow in Eve to disobey God's Word, to not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, only after she allowed herself to entertain the temptation of the serpent & began to focus more & more on its fruit and in time become convenced that the fruit was good for eating.....and this is when Eve's confidence in obey God's Word failed her.
---Shawn_M.T. on 1/2/09


markv,
Your whole arguement is about sin nature, right?
Are you saying that babies have a motive to sin when they are first born? This is not true. We are taught to sin.
Even Jesus could have sinned but He did not.
Jesus was the only perfect being God ever created. Why was he perfect? First, he was God in the flesh. Second, He chose to do the will of God instead of his own. He was tempted in every way but did not sin. To be tempted is not sin. It is how we react to the temptation. If we ignore, we obey God. If we follow along, then we sin against God.
"Of course they had the ability to obey or not"-markv
Brother, this is the key. They had the ability. To obey God is to be righteous. To disobey God is to sin.
---miche3754 on 1/2/09


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She failed when the temptation came. Just as we will do, if not very careful. We must know Gods word, and be prepared to stand upon it... in every situation, if possible. and it is, if we determine to be obedient.

Jesus said... You love me... (if)....
you obey my commandments.
---Gayla on 1/2/09


Miche, I don't see your arguement. It seems you are arguing for no reason. If God created people imperfect then go right ahead and say it.
Of course they had the ability to obey or not. That is what is called true free will. But they had no motive whatsoever to disobey and sin until the serpent brought the motives. If you are saying they had motives to sin already, then it means they had a sin nature before the fall. And that is not true at all. Every descendant of Adam and Eve have a sin nature because of the curse, the fall.
That is why everyone alive does not have true free will. They have a sin nature that is sinful even before they sin. They have motives and reasons to sin. Adam and Eve did not have them when they were created.
---MarkV. on 1/2/09


Amen, kath. You are right.

Mark v,

The first man was a fleshly man(adam) and the second was a Spiritual Man(Jesus).

We were not perfect from the beginning.
We were made a fleshly image of God.

For Eve to be convinced to DOUBT GOD, was IMPERFECTION. And then, Adam choosing to fall with Eve instead of stay with God.

That is both choice and imperfection.

Adam and Eve were innocent but quite capable of sin or else they would not have done it. If they had been perfect, when they were tempted, they WOULD NOT HAVE FALLEN. BUT THEY DID!
In contrast, Jesus was tempted BUT DID NOT FALL.
Do you see now, mark?
---miche3754 on 1/1/09


2 Corinthians 11: 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Adam and Eve were NOT Gods but earthly. The Body of Christ is HEAVENLY. That was not first that was spiritual. 1st Corin 15. Please read ..

YET we, living in a higher order are WARNED! What excuse will we have? Christ is our head, and WE ARE the weaker vessel. We are not GODS!!! Christ is our life, our strength, our wisdom, etc. You are NOTHING without Him, and can do NOTHING without HIM.
---kathr4453 on 12/31/08


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Miche: "I am speaking from a spiritual point of view."

Then, are you saying God divided Adam's spirit into two parts and used half to create Eve? If even this were true (which I truly doubt), what can you point to that would prove that this procedure would have weakened Adam? On the contrary, I believe the evidence suggests just the opposite. God created Eve as a helper to Adam (Gen2:18). If anything, Eve's creation was meant to strengthen him.

MarkV: "When God made Adam and Eve they were perfect."

I agree. How could our God make anything less than perfect? If God made man with a flaw, that shifts the blame for the Fall, does it not?
---Bobby3 on 12/31/08


Miche, there was nothing in Adam and Eve to bring their down fall. I just don't see how you can come out with that. When God made Adam and Eve they were perfect. Please don't assume God made Adam and Eve with something imperfect in them.
To continue to assume that, would change many things God creates. God created a new life in each of us who are born of the Spirit. He does not create something bad, or evil in anyone who is save. He brings to us perfect righteousness. Gives us a perfect New Life.
It was not until the temptation came to Eve that she sin. She was perfect until she started to listen to the serpent.
---MarkV. on 12/31/08


God was there and He gave them the command and they did disobey. That is sin. What did Adam do again I say? rebelled against God. What is sin? Rebellion against God.
---MarkV. on 12/31/08
Mark you are right, they did.

Both Adam and Eve were carnal before the fall.
Yes, Eve's desire to obey God failed when she saw the fruit.
It failed as soon as she looked at it.

The thing everyone misses here is that the fall was caused by a LIE.
The serpent lied to Eve, causing Eve to DOUBT God.
The serpent used what was already in Adam and Eve to bring about their down fall.
---miche3754 on 12/31/08


You don't have to be the weaker vessel to be tempted by Satan. All Christians are tempted. I am going to put down the sequence of events that led to Eve sinning in three post and hope the moderator post them. I know they are busy but this have to be read together.
It was not her purpose to sin before this incendent happened. She was very much happy and so was Adam. They had no reason to sin or desire to sin. It was not until the temptation came with a motive and a reason, reasons she never had before but now she had because Satan convinced her to trust him and not God.
---MarkV. on 12/31/08


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MarkV, Motive NOW is not the issue to the lost. New Life in Christ is...and offers it to ALL mankind. He came to save the WORLD of one man's SIN, that brought death to ALL.

THROUGH the FOOLISHNESS of PREACHING the GOSPEL!!! Made it SOOOOO easy!!! You don't need to have a PHD to receive salvation or understand it!!!




Romans 5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, ...
---kathr4453 on 12/31/08


Some people continue to answer without knowing. It would be better to study and then answer.
"Sin was not imputed where there was no law" What did Adam do? He committed sin. Was there a law? Of course there was a law, God. There was no written law, but there didn't have to be one since God was there and He gave them the command and they did disobey. That is sin. What did Adam do again I say? rebelled against God. What is sin? Rebellion against God.
---MarkV. on 12/31/08


she was led into it by accepting different information about the situation. God had given rules concerning their spiritual well being.
-
and the devil (the tempter) came along and introduced enticements from the physical senses.
-
what happened to Eve happens to anyone else when their faith is challenged.
-
once a person obeys another voice rather than God, they become in bondage to the last one that they obeyed.
-
Eve failed the test when she bit the apple.
---opalgal on 12/30/08


bobby I am speaking from a spiritual point of view. what I said is not set in stone, brother. It is open for discussion.
Markv,
look at the story.
the serpent went the weaker vessel.
in the Bible, marriage states that the two become one flesh.
This means they should be complete. Now I'm speaking of before Christ came.
Eve wasn't there when God said this.
God said they may eat of every tree but that one.
Eve saw it was good for food, and that is was pleasing to the eye and to make her wise.
Does not say God told her this. You are assuming.
She was guilty of the lust of the flesh, lust the eyes, and the pride of life.
The serpent didn't make her eat, just as she didn't make Adam eat. they chose to eat.
---miche3754 on 12/30/08


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**What is in question is their motives. And why they sinned. For before the serpent came into the picture they were pure.
---MarkV. on 12/30/08 **

According to Romans 5 motive is not the issue. As in Adam all die, In Christ all made alive. Sin was not IMPUTED where there was no law. So their motive is not the issue. Only where law is concerned can motive put on trial. DEATH reigned from Adam to Moses...and death reigned from Moses to Christ. One had law the other didn't.
---kathr4453 on 12/30/08


Miche: "This says to me that Adam was BOTH male and female before Eve was created."

Genensis 1:27-28 reads, "...male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply..."

Notice the plural pronoun (them) is used several times in this passage, referring to BOTH Adam and Eve (not a single individual who was both male and female).

The account in Genesis 2 does not state God separated the Eve part from the Adam part of a person. Rather, God used a rib from Adam to create Eve. In a similar way, God earlier used the dust of the earth to form Adam, but this doesn't mean He separated the man part from the dust part of the ground.
---Bobby3 on 12/30/08


Miche, where did you see that the two were weak without each other? And then you say by your comment, "But as we notice, after Eve was created, the two are weak without each other, sin steps into the picture" Are you suggesting that because they were weak without each other sin entered?
Concerning the fruit, God had already mentioned that all the fruit of the trees was good in 2:9, where He says, "And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food." Eve knew that and so did the devil. That in not in question. What is in question is their motives. And why they sinned. For before the serpent came into the picture they were pure.
---MarkV. on 12/30/08


mark,
the serpent only used what was already there.
He didn't say it looked good for food- Eve did.
He didn't say it smelled good- Eve did.
Do see what I am saying?
here is their short conversation before she ate-Gen 3:1-5
Serpent said , "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
Eve said , "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, & you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
"You will not surely die," Serpent said to Eve. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, & you will be like God, knowing good & evil."
---miche3754 on 12/29/08


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Gen.1:27
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them"
This is stated BEFORE Eve was created from Adam's side.
This says to me that Adam was BOTH male and female before Eve was created.
Sin had not come into the picture either.
But as we notice, after Eve is created, the two are weak without each other. Sin steps into the picture.
They were innocent of at the time but had the ability to sin.
To sin is to fall short of God's perfection.
When man was first created, we were perfect because we were one flesh. But as soon as we were divided into male and female(seperate), we fell. Just thoughts. If anyone wants to jump and add.
---miche3754 on 12/29/08


Miche, let me say this again, When God created Adam and Eve they were pure. They had no sinful nature. No reason to disobey God and obey Satan, for they were along. Everything God created was very good. They were given instructions, not to eat of the tree in the middle of the garden, if they disobeyed they would die, if they obeyed they would have eternal life. They didn't have any inclinations or motives to disobey God. They were happy people. They were spiritually alive to God.
When the devil showed up, he deceived Eve by implying the fruit was good, and that God didn't want them to be like Him. She now had a motive and reason to disobey God. She believed Satan over God. Without Satan they would have kept thir purity.
---MarkV. on 12/29/08


markv,
yes we did have the ability to sin.
Or else the serpent would not have been able to deceive Eve.
1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world
Eve was guilty of ALL of these before she even ate the fruit.
If it was not in us, then how did the Serpent deceive Eve?
The way he deceives us- he is subtle. He went to her and told her a lie and she believed it. Because sin was POSSIBLE, she committed it. If we didn't have it then how was Adam able to CHOOSE to follow Eve into sin?
---miche3754 on 12/29/08


Eve was not carnal, neither was Adam. They were pure without a sin nature. They had no reason to disobey God. No inclinations, no desires, nothing whatsoever to make them disobey.
Eve believed the fruit was desirable because the devil told her it was good to eat. She believed him.
All humans after the fall, have desires, inclinations, motives and many reasons to disobey. They don't need to be deceive, they do it because many times they have done it before and liked what they did so they do it again. It's their sin nature.
---MarkV. on 12/21/08


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When a man desires a woman, he has already committed adultery in his
*heart*. Likewise . . . when in her *heart* she desired the fruit, then was when she died. "But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives." (1 Timothy 5:6) So, you can be in a living death . . . being LOVE-dead and JOY-dead while living for pleasures. She changed in herself, became spiritually degraded, when she gave in to desiring the forbidden fruit. There is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2) > this spirit of evil "works" > Satan's evil spirit WORKED in her to degrade her to disobey. This shows how even perfect creatures are helpless without the Holy Spirit, I consider.
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/21/08


Yes & No, depending on the words usage.
Carnal as temporal, no. "The day you eat thereof you shall surely die" implies that before that time, they would not.
Carnal as having a tendency and inclination to focus externally, yes. The garden was designed and created to be sensually pleasing, enjoyed and cared for, as was their personal relationship. It was that inclination that opened Eve's mind to Satan's deception.
However they did not become carnally minded, as dictated to or controlled by their external perceptions until after the fall. As evidence by "their 'eyes" (knowledge) were [became] "opened' (sensual) and they 'knew' (considered) they were naked" and became both ashamed and fearful.
---Josef on 12/21/08


So Donna you're saying she was carnal because she added to what God told Adam? Maybe it's just the way it's written and there's not a reason behind it?

I can't explain something that has no explanation. The text differs between chapter two and three no doubt, maybe Adam told her that if she touched it she'd die, God after all told him that he'd die if he only ate of it. Anything we try and add is speculation.
---Pharisee on 12/18/08


Donna:-Eve was like U & I knowing the difference,her first sentence to the serpent shows this, & she was Pure before the temptation as we all are till we decide to take a step in the wrong direction, (like EVE)for what ever reason it affords us.This is where we need the desire of self control which all of us have but some do not exercise it.The NEED for self control should be upper most in every Human mind to attain and obtain the love & grace of God, and should be used by asking ourselves "What would Jesus say/do.?" This is a good rule of thumb.
---MIC on 12/18/08


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Pharisee, I'm getting what you're saying and it's good stuff, however, when you say

Eve's initial response to the serpent was one of meekness repeating what God had said to them

Eve not only repeated what God had said to them, but she added something else that God did NOT say to them, "or touch it." God never told Adam not to touch the tree...He said, Don't eat from it.

So I tend to think Eve had her faults before the fall.

Also, you never see where in scripture Adam tells Eve what God told him about the tree, why's that? Help me understand this, okay?
---donna8365 on 12/18/08


Look again at Genesis 3, it talks about the serpent, and if you look at what happens the world's VERY FIRST false doctrine about God is believed when Eve is deceived to sin.

Paul's testimony was the same when he said that the woman was the first to be deceived.

In other words they were as God made them to be, Eve's initial response to the serpent was one of meekness repeating what God had said to them, and the serpent the only thing that was different from their perfect environment told them a lie, I contend that they might have even believed the serpent was yet perfect too, because every other thing around them was.
Believe the word as a Child and no harm can encroach!
---Pharisee on 12/17/08


I normally would agree with all of you folks, BUT I saw this while reading the account of Adam & Eve:

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,

Isn't this what 1st John was talking about?
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Did Eve have all 3 lusts BEFORE she ate of the fruit? I think so. So would that make her carnal before she sinned??? See my point? I'm not really sure, so bible people speak up...lol.
---donna8365 on 12/17/08


There is no sin in being tempted.
Hebrews 4:15, "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

Sin comes when temptation is yeilded to.
James 1:14-15, "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

Therefore: She was created in perfection. She did not become carnal untill she yeilded to temptation.
---Bruce5656 on 12/17/08


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God told them that if they "ate" the fruit they would surely die. He didn't say "if you look at it or desire it" or anything else. So, I would say she became carnal when she ate it and not before.
---john on 12/17/08


Eve and Adam walked with God and God walked among them. When she yielded to temptation she became carnal. She should've said no I will obey God what a difference all of our lives would be. Sleeping with a snake and not getting bitten is what we would have today.
---catherine on 12/17/08


In the fall of mankind I see a sexual connotation. If we put ourselves in Adam's position we might be able to understand why he fell. Remember Eve was his mate and if he lost his Mate what then would happen? The availability of others to become mates was very very very limited.(None, no other choices to choosr from)
Question, Havr you ever gone against your better judgment and knowledge just to please your mate?
---mima on 12/17/08


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