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Are We Born Sinful

Are we born sinful or do we sin in a fallen world?

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We sin in a fallen world.
---Betty on 3/1/09


Everyone is born into sin. The blood of Jesus Christ is the only way a person can be cleansed from sin. No matter how good a person is, without the blood of Jesus Christ, they will die in their sins.
---Rebecca_D on 2/24/09


Romans 5:19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made rightous. Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
---Bob on 2/23/09


Matt 15:19-20
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean', but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.'
Mark 7:20-23
He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.'For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

This was a hard pill for me to swallow, but this is what Jesus says we are naturally like this.
---miche3754 on 2/23/09


According to Scripture 1 Cor. 15:45 we are indeed born sinful. The first Adam was of the earth and desired material things. The second Adam was of the heavens and desired heavenly things. We bare a sinful life first and then a sinless.
---tonne on 2/23/09




Moses Stuart, says: "How can it be consistent now, that we should denounce others in severe terms, who, in order to make out their favourite tenets, do on any occasion superinduce a meaning upon the sacred text which will support their own peculiar views, and yet we ourselves, who thus readly denouce this practice in others, do the very same thing in respect to the passage before us where no declaration is at all made, that the evils resulting from Adam's sin, or the benefits bestowed by Christ's obedience, are by imputation?"
---TRU-DOG on 2/2/09


Albert Barnes, says: "They have sought for a theory to account for it. And many suppose they have found it in the doctrine that the sin of Adam is imputed, or set over by an arbitrary arrangement to beings otherwise innocent, and that they are held to be responsible for a deed committed by a man thousands of years before they were born. This is the theory, and men insensibly forget that it is mere theory, and they blend that and the fact which the apostle states together, and deem the denial of the one, heresy as much as the denial of the other, i.e. they make it as impious to call in question their philosophy, as to doubt the facts stated on the authority of the apostle Paul".
---TRU-DOG on 2/1/09


J.W. Jepson, says: If sin is an ontological substance or essence instead of a moral choice, if it is a metaphysical principle that causes choice instead of being the evil choice itself, the logical and necessary result is to remove the blame for evil from the human moral agent and place it instead on the metaphysical essence itself. Man becomes the victim of this thing called "sin," rather than the responsible perpetrator. Human depravity is regarded as metaphysical rather than moral and voluntary. God's grace is needed to overcome, not voluntary depravity (depravity of choice), but an involuntary helplessness and an inability to choose in any way other than evil.
---TRU-DOG on 2/1/09


J.W. Jepson, says: The supporters of the doctrine of inherited original sin appeal to several Bible passages that have come to be viewed from the presuppositions of an essentially Platonic/Neo-Platonic frame of reference. That frame of reference is a prism that determines the definitions and connotations of certain Biblical words and phrases, notably "sin." Because these Biblical passages did not in themselves teach the later doctrine of original sin, they had to be "retrofitted" by eisogesis to conform to a Greek philosophical template.
---TRU-DOG on 2/1/09


J.W. Jepson, says: It is important that we consider and understand these Biblical passages from a Hebrew/moral frame of reference instead of a Greek/ontological frame of reference. That is, we will regard The Scriptures in their natural definition of sin and holiness as voluntary moral choices, not ontological (metaphysical) essences. "Spiritual" does not mean "mystical." It has to do with moral choices and character, and a right relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
---TRU-DOG on 2/1/09




Romans 5:8 But God demostrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Verse 12 Therefore, just as sin through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned. Verse 19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. Because of Adam we are all born sinners. Only through Jesus can we become righteous and become children of God. Those who reject Jesus will die in their sins. So the scriptures tell us.
---Bob on 1/31/09


J.W.Jepson, says: In Platonism and its subsequent variations the question of the cause and nature of evil was basic. The general assumption that sin and evil are ontological (that they have actual essence) contributed to and forms the basic premise of the doctrine of original sin. To be inherited, sin must have essence, real being, it must consist in some thing that causes evil choice and action, instead of being the moral character of the choice itself. With this mind set it is common to regard sin in the heart as an essence instead of a voluntary choice, hence the term "sinful nature." This evil essence is regarded as a part of human nature.
---TRU-DOG on 1/31/09


Romans 5:8 But God demostrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Verse 12 Therefore, just as sin through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned. Verse 19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. Because of Adam we are all born sinners. Only through Jesus can we become righteous and become children of God. Those who reject Jesus will die in their sins. So the scriptures tell us.
---Bob on 1/31/09


Moses Stuart, says: A man's sin is and must be his own act, either internal or external, or both, and for men to be hamartoloi, they must be actively and voluntarily so. Another man's sin can no more be mine, than his soul can be mine, no more than his consciousness, will, affections, or disposition, can be mine. To impute them to me, then, must be to impute to me what in fact does not belong to me, what never did, and what never can. The candid advocates of imputation in its highest sense, concede this. But how much progress do we make in the knowledge of things, and in the explanation of important principles in theology, when we affirm that God counts that as existing which does not in reality exist, and which is in itself an impossibility?
---TRU-DOG on 1/31/09


Calhoon~ Please read 'Shawn MT's' teachings about faith and work on the "What Are Biblical Works" blog (1/26). It is very concise and helpful in this matter.
---Anne on 1/26/09


*The will is free to be self-acting, in view of motive, a motive may be the reason why one acts, but not the cause, God is not the cause, and He does not cause some to be lost and others to be saved. The notion or assumption that a sin-nature is the cause, is a scheme, that is aginst the freedom of the will, because if you are forced to act by a sin-nature, then where is the freedom to be a self-active being, and can you resist this cause for action? The causation of sin is self-caused or self determined, it is not caused, by another. If you are forced to act, or sin, -what ever is the force of that act is the responsible cause or agent
---TRU-DOG on 1/26/09


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Trudog, I think you got junk in your trunk.
People receive forgiveness as a gift upon believing. Its not by works we are forgiven, but through faith in the Messiah and what He did.
---calhoon on 1/26/09


Ooops! Let's look at this: "however, if our heart is not penitent and sincere, God will not be forgiving, and you will go to hell, if you are not converted again."---This was an incomplete thought, and is contradictory to the first part of my statement, it should read, "however, if we make a conscious choice to do wrong, and our heart is not penitent and sincere, God will not be forgiving, and you will go to hell, if you are not converted again."
---TRU-DOG on 1/26/09


The Christian perfection is about the heart, which is the intent or motive of the will, -I don't think, if you sin inadvertently, or not on purpose, or overtly, it would be culpable or penal, -we are not infinitely jurisprudent, and adjudicate with infinite precision or exactness, however, if our heart is not penitent and sincere, God will not be forgiving, and you will go to hell, if you are not converted again.
---TRU-DOG on 1/25/09


True Dog, To those who are in Christ, God has forgiven "All" their sins. 1 John 2. Every single sin of the believers are forgiven by God Himself. "Your sins and iniquities I will remember no more" We do have to give an account but 2 Cor. 5:10-11 says about believers, "We must all appear before the Judgement Seat of Christ" The word Judgment here is not "Krino, or Krima" which means condemnation, but the word here means "Bema" which is speaking of rewards. Then it says, "According to what he has done, whether it is good or bad" 1 Cor. 3, speaks of what is burn and what is left.
---MarkV. on 1/25/09


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MarkV, Let's look at this: "the Judgment Seat of Christ and all their works will be brought out and even though you've got a whole bunch of wood, hay and stubble, It's just going to get burned up. It will be removed and what's left is silver and gold, precious stones"---This is a judgment on their moral-histroy of works, in Christ, and not their present moral state, of being sin-free, and their total forgiveness.
---TRU-DOG on 1/24/09


The Judgment Seat of Christ is not for condemnation. It is for rewards for all genuine believers. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ, period. They will all stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and all their works will be brought out and even though you've got a whole bunch of wood, hay and stubble, It's just going to get burned up. It will be removed and what's left is silver and gold, precious stones. Everyone who is saved will have praise, why? Because there cannot be such a thing as a Christian who hasn't produced gold or silver and precious stones. All believers have already been judge righteous. "Every man shall have praised from God" 1 Cor. 4.
---MarkV. on 1/21/09


Frances~ Yes, we all do need to be concerned about judgment...please also see Romans 14:10-12 which is another verse pertaining to this, "For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ...so then each of us shall give account of himself to God."
---Anne on 1/19/09


Tru-Dog~ The word of God is the furthest thing from a 'joke' to you. It is good to have some fun now and then, but you consider God's word with utmost seriousness. Keep up the great work.
---Anne on 1/18/09


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MarkV, Let's look at this: "I believe the word of God has become a joke to you"---Once again you falsely accuse me of something, based on a false notion.
---TRU-DOG on 1/18/09


First I have to say that there are two judgements. One, the Rapture is a temporal judgement, in that the wicked will be destroyed (Mark 6.11) and after that is another judgement of those whose souls are in or just arriving in holding cells (the dead) and that may include many of us at that time. (Matthew 25.32 and following and Matthew 13.40 - 43). Psalm 96 verses 10 and 13. Clearly the whole world, all the nations shall be judged. 1 Cor 3.13 refers to every man's works being tried by fire. So when we die we still get to go through a firey baptism. There are many, many other verses that refer to the coming judgment after death.
---frances008 on 1/18/09


We were born sinful!! Adam and Eve were perfect untill they gave in to sin and then that caused a fallen world. So, basically... Both! We have a choice to sin or to please God and because of our sinful nature... We SIN! And God is so merciful and compassionate, He chooses to forgive us every single time!
---Emily on 1/18/09


---Mic I am not inadvertently spreading a false gospel. For what I am saying is with full intent and purpose and certainly not
inadvertently, or by accident.
---mima on 1/18/09


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Mima:-English is a confusing language.The tenses of past present and future are different.Who Takes away =capable of removing.Taken = removed.Review your post in regard to Jn1:29which says "WHO takes away the sins of the world"This does not mean if you see, or acknowledge Jesus your sins are Removed. This is 'Presumption' like your belief in OSAS.You are inadverdantly spreading a false gospel.
---Mic on 1/18/09


A word about judgment,
Do you believe the Bible? If so you will understand and accept this statement.
John 1:29,"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."
If the person who has accepted the Lord Jesus Christ receives any judgment except judgment as concerned rewards then John 1:29 cannot be true because if it were true(and it is) all our sins have been taken away. This taking away of our sins took place at the cross of Calgary!!!
---mima on 1/18/09


MarkV, I will look up the references for you, but in the meantime I am certain that we will ALL be judged. Anyway, if I am wrong at least I am making certain that I live my life in a manner pleasing to God and that cannot be bad. If you are wrong, then 'Woops! I was wrong. Faith does not save me. I get to pay for my sins that I willfully committed after the knowledge of God's commandments.' It seems rather an important thing to get right.
---frances008 on 1/18/09


MarkV, Let's look at this: "I believe the word of God has become a joke to you which was one reason I didn't want to answer you, before. You are not serious about God's Word."---I am serious about God, you have a false assumption, about my intentions.
---TRU-DOG on 1/17/09


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No True Dog, lets not look at this. It is my opinion that you are not serious about the Word of God. Which is fine with me. You don't have to be. You didn't say anything nasty to me so I am not offended in the least. I know what to expect many times yet I answer as good as I can. My answers to you are not good enough of, that is ok. I prefer to move on to other questions.
---MarkV. on 1/17/09


MarkV, Let's look at this: "You find this to be an argument everyday, and even laughable to you. I don't believe the Word of God is to be laugh at. My help you don't need." ---Your assumption that I find the Holy Word of God, funny, is a false assumption.
---TRU-DOG on 1/17/09


The Bible declares that all men are guilty under Adam. Not a one is holy."Therefore, just as one man (Adam) sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men." Romans 5:12. God's holiness demands perfection. Period. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23. Sinful men can only receive eternal life as a gift, not as a reward. His real true reward they deserved is eternal hell.
---MarkV. on 1/17/09


Anne, I answered this earlier in reply to trudog, I quote, "But in answer to the poster, some are born holy, and some are born unholy: and some do righteousness and some do sin."
---Eloy on 1/17/09


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True Dog, Instead of reading to see if you have the truth you find the Word of God to be laughable. If you had notice that He was born of the Spirit, for in Psa. For David said in 51:10-11, "Create in me a clean heart, (his heart was not clean: not his outside behavior) O God, And re-new a steadfast spirit within me, Do not cast me away from your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me" If you had read the context of 51, you would know what Psa. 119:73 was about.
True Dog, I believe the word of God has become a joke to you which was one reason I didn't want to answer you, before. You are not serious about God's Word. Which is ok by me. Just don't pretend to be interested.
---MarkV. on 1/16/09


Tru-dog~ 'You make my hair hurt!' That quote of yours still has me laughing. It's good to have a little fun now and then.

---Anne on 1/16/09


Eloy~ If you get the time, I would be interested to hear your views on 'Are we born sinful, or do we sin a fallen world.' Thanks.
---Anne on 1/16/09


MarkV, Why don't you answer my questions? I take great care to ask them...Please give me some more feed-back!
---TRU-DOG on 1/16/09


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.markv, I redeem the time and offer the Word to those whom want it because they can profit from it and become blessed, and Jesus said not to put your pearls in front of swine for very good reason. When you want to really know the truth, then ask, until then you can receive nothing from kingdom of God.
---Eloy on 1/16/09


MarkV, Let's look at this: "David is wonderfully made after he is born of the Spirit" Are you for real?! This is the best you can do...Please! You make my hair hurt!
---TRU-DOG on 1/16/09


True Dog: proof text:
1 Job 31:15 In the context of Job's struggles he is complaining to God why he is suffering so much, that he had not done anything to anyone. He kept stating "If" I have not done this or that, why am I suffering instead of others who were evil. He had kept faithful to God in so many ways. Yet they were made the same as he.
2. Matt 18: Jesus here answers first with, "Assuredly, I say to you, "unless you are converted (born again) and become as little children, you will by no means enter the Kingdom of Heaven." Coverted came first, then become as Little children, for they are considered innocent of acts of sins. Though they are sinful in nature.
---MarkV. on 1/16/09


True Dog: Proof Text:
1. Psa. 119::73 "Your hands have made me and fashioned me, Give me understanding, that I may learn your commandments" God made him, and as you notice he had no understanding of the things of God.
2. Psa. 139:13,14 "I will praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made," David is wonderfully made after he is born of the Spirit. For Psa.51:7-10, David said, "Purge me with with hyssop, and I shall be clean, Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Make me hear joy and gladness, that the bones you have broken may rejoice, Hide your face from my sins, and blot all my iniquites" Create in me a new Heart, O God" sounds like David needed a new heart.
---MarkV. on 1/16/09


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MarkV, Proof Text: Thy hands have made me and fashioned me. Psalm 119:73 Thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee: for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Psalm 139: 13,14 Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb: Job 31:15 Have we not all one father? Hath not one God created us? Eccl. 12:1 Know ye that the Lord he is God, it is he that hath made us and not we ourselves. Psalm 100:3
---TRU-DOG on 1/15/09


MarkV, Proof Texts: " Mt.18 Jesus said "Who is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven?" Then He called a little child to Himself and said "Except you be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven." And in Mt.19:14 Jesus tells us "Do not forbid the little children to come to Me for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven." Thanks! -Anne
---TRU-DOG on 1/15/09


MarkV, Lets look at this: " Ps.51:5 "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." Psalm 58:3 "The wicked are estranged from the womb:they go astray as soon as they are born speaking lies."--- An infant cannot speak lies, do you believe, an infant inside, or outside of the whomb, is sinful, and has sinful intents, or motives, and has moral-consciousness, and, has an understanding, of right and wrong, and sins, or lies, the moment of conception, or birth? Everyone knows this is not true, your own consciousness, of oughtness, and rightness, is against your false assumption.
---TRU-DOG on 1/15/09


True Dog, again Scripture says, "anything not of faith is sin." All descendants of Adam fall in that category. They are slaves to sin. Not a one person is born spiritually alive to Christ. So everything he possess within him, is corrupt and sinful, even if he has not commited the act of sin.
You see a lot of people do good, having faith in God, He gets the glory. If you did it on your own, you get glory which is sinful pride.
Unbelievers are children of wrath. born that way. Sorry you don't believe it but that is how Scripture describes them. Again I say, it is God's Word. Not my Word.
---MarkV. on 1/15/09


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Eloy, you have no answer. Just as I thought. You cannot understand how there could be two Judgment days, could you?
I said, "If" because most of what you have said, half is in Scripture and the other half its your own theory.
The Judgment Seat of Christ" where all believers go, is really called "Bema Seat" at a Bema seat of athletics rewards are given. The same will be for all believers.
All the wicked and those who blaspheme the name of the Lord will find themselves at "The Great White Throne of Judgment" Where God will open the book of works, and every single work of theirs will be found and they will get exactly what is coming to them. No cruelty there, all justice.
---MarkV. on 1/15/09


MarkV, Let's look at this: " The propensity of their heart is evil from birth"--- What is a "propensity"? To have an urge, and impulse,is not sinful. To have a curiosity and appetites, relishs, desires, and tastes for objects of desire, is not sinful, in and of themselves, it is merely innocent and innate. When you purpose in your heart to satisfy them in a manner, that is forbidden or unlawful, is when you sin, it is not sin to have innocent and innate desires, it is essential to being human.
---TRU-DOG on 1/15/09


.markv, you think that you could know what I actually know or do not know, how presumptuous and foolish that is.
---Eloy on 1/15/09


Eloy, if there is no "if" then why do you not know? Simple answer. Seeing as to how you come from God.
---MarkV. on 1/15/09


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True Dog, you want to convey that people born are pure until they commit the act of sin. Physically they are born with all their faculties. Nothing is missing physically. But when he is born, he is born separated from God. The propensity of their heart is evil from birth, for it is out of the heart that all the issues of life proceed. 'Acts of sin are therefore but the expression of the natural heart, which is deceitful above all things and exceedingly corrupt" Jer. 17:9.
On the principle that no clean thing can come out of what is unclean Job14:4, all that are born of woman are declared "abominable and corrupt" to whose nature iniquity alone is attractive"
Job 15:14-16.
---MarkV. on 1/15/09


.markv, there is no "if" in what I said.
---Eloy on 1/15/09


.mima, David said his mother conceived him in sin, he did not say all people are conceived in sin. You see David's birth was questionable that his mother committed adultery so that Jesse might not have been his biological father. David says, lit.Hb: "A bastard I have become to my brothers, and nonkindred to my mother's sons." Psalm 69:8. I think this is very interesting in the fact that Jesus' birth was also questioned in that Joseph was not Jesus' biological father either.
---Eloy on 1/15/09


Mima, You are wrong about David's exaggeration with tracing back his moral development or history to its beginning or fountain-head, as if it started in the womb itself. We know that all sin starts with a wrong choice or selfishness. Selfishness is the fountain-head from which all its various or diverse kinds or types of sin flow, it can start at an early age with some children. David was excited and expressed himself in strong, graphic, and poetic language. The substance of an unborn child is not sinful, at the time of conception, and during gestation a unborn child is not sinful, infants commit sin from the very day and hour of their birth, and by natural generation.
---TRU-DOG on 1/14/09


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King David of Israel said he was conceived in iniquity! If we are conceived in iniquity how could we not be born sinful?
Now John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit before he was born. And Jesus and of course was a member of the Godhead and did not have to be filled with the Holy Spirit but in his incarnation he had the fullness of the Holy Spirit in him at his birth.
---mima on 1/14/09


Eloy if you come from God as you say, why do you not know that Christians go to the Judgment seat of Christ? That should have been easy for you coming from God. The reason it is not in your brain already is that it never was allowed by you to believe it.
What is the sense of forgiveness if you are going to go back and be judge again? How do you explain that? Didn't God say, "Your sins and iniquities I will remember no more" They are removed as far as what? As far as the East is from the West. How far is that? That far. They are buried in the depths of the sea, they are forgotten by God because of the blood of Christ.
Coming from God you should have an answer. Was God deceiving us?
---MarkV. on 1/14/09


.markv, I come from God and have his Holy Spirit to preach his words exactly what he tells me to preach, and I translate the Holy Scriptures exactly as he instructs me too. Many like you choose to dis the truth and remain in darkness onto their own loss. markv, you are free to dis the Truth I preach from God with all your hearts desire, but know that in doing so is onto your own loss.
---Eloy on 1/13/09


A-men Anne. Many leaders of congregations are unsaved themselves, and the Holy Bible reads, that, "If the blind lead the blind, then both will fall into the ditch." In my translating of the Holy Scriptures from their original tongues I have come across a lot of inaccurate English translating which has caused some major false doctrines in the churches. So I strongly encourage people who are serious about their Christian faith, to read and study to show themselves approved to God: for the strong and effective witness will "know" the Truth, and be able to give an answer for the hope that is within them.
---Eloy on 1/13/09


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Good advice Eloy. Most of my Bible education has come by means of this website where issues and stances are brought forth and declared, bringing me to seek what I may find in Scripture and Holy writ concerning that subject, and my wife never ceases to amaze me with her insights and whom brought me to seek the knowledge of the Lord.
---Nana on 1/13/09


Eloy~ That was some excellent and sound advice you gave on your post to Nana. I agree, we should not just take a ministers word concerning the Bible, but search the scriptures for ourselves diligently. As it says in Romans: "Let God be true, and every man a liar.", meaning we need to trust God's word for truth, rather than man alone.
---Anne on 1/13/09


Sorry Eloy, you need to read the Scriptures again. This time with eyes wide open. Only unbelievers will be at that Great White Throne of Judgment. All born of the Spirit individuals have been forgiven already. For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ.
---MarkV. on 1/13/09


Nana, Thank you. I encourage every person to obtain a Holy Bible, then right before you read it pray to Jesus to open your understanding and guide you as you read: let the words in the Bible speak straight to you as the all-knowing Father leads the child: rather than the person whom reads it without the Spirit in prayer, which will arrive that one to falsehood. Some people have never cracked open a Bible, but yet they will believe every word spoken from their church leaders: and without knowing the scriptures, they assume that because the person is the church leader that what they are saying to them is the truth. But I say to all, for your soul's sake, please get a Holy Bible and start read it to find out the real truth for yourself.
---Eloy on 1/13/09


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.markv, Every soul will awake to Christ's Great White Throne Judgment, the dead will be raised like Lazarus, and those that have not died will also be commanded to stand before God, Christian and nonChristian, rich and poor. lit.Hb: "And many of those who sleep in the ground of dust will awake: some to life everlasting, and some to shame, to horror everlasting." Daniel 12:2. As for the sinuous: lit.Gk: "And these will go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Matthew 25:46. markv, I have the mind of Christ, and I have the Truth. But until you get saved, instead of the truth you will hear what you desire to hear, and believe what you desire to believe, and say whatever you desire to say.
---Eloy on 1/13/09


So who is right Eloy, The word of God or you? "There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ" if they have to go to the Great White Throne of Judgment, and be judge again, then the sacrifice of Christ was for nothing. Why even die for our sins, since we would have to pay for our sins anyways? Not biblical.
---MarkV. on 1/13/09


Eloy, you still don't get it. All Christians will appear before "the Judgement Seat Of Christ." "All unbelievers will appear before the Great White Throne of Judgement."
1 Corinthians 3:12 "Now if anyone builds in this foundation with gold, silver, precious stone, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become clear, for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by far, and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is, If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone work is burned, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." Which happens to all born of the Spirit believers at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
---MarkV. on 1/13/09


Eloy, 2 Continue: in 2 Cor. 5:10 he says to believers, "Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what He has done, whether good or bad" The bad things will be burned and the good ones he will get a reward.
While all those who are lost will go the Great white Throne of Judgment,Rev. 12:11, where the books will be open and they will give proof that they not only rejected Christ but all of their rebellions against God. And God will judge them justly for they will not be treated cruel. For to be treated cruel is to be given punishment not deserved.
---MarkV. on 1/13/09


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TRU-DOG,
I knew Eloy would give you I Corinthians 7:14. Even I almost gave it on his account. kath just pointed me to Gen 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." I like Eloy a lot, even if some say, he is too skinny, too tall, too short, too purple, I account him with some of the strongest and most valid Christian doctrinal values. Much rather he be my next door neighbor than your #1 correspondant here and thus far!
---Nana on 1/12/09


.calhoon, The real Christian knows me, and we saints from God know whom is righteous and whom is sinuous.
---Eloy on 1/12/09


.markv, The real Christian knows me. "But I say yo you, That every idle word, which if a person will speak, they will yield account of it at Judgment day. For we must all appear in front of the Judgment throne of Christ, that every one will receive the things in body, according to what we have done, whether good or bad. And the dead, small and great, stand in front of God, and the books are opened: and another book is opened, which being the Life: and the dead are judged out of those things which are written in the books, according to their works. And the disobedient will go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Matthew 12:36+ II Corinthians 5:10+ Revelation 20:12+ Matthew 25:46.
---Eloy on 1/12/09


I would rather think, when we are born, we are on our way to heaven. Jesus died for a reason. There is good news out there. Jesus produced a miracle. HE died for all and then HE rose from the dead.. HE set the captive FREE. Glory to God.
---duane on 1/12/09


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TRU-DOG, Since the time of Christ, there are 2 races being produced in the world, the holy and the unholy, and depending upon which progenitor you are born from will determine whether you are born holy or else unholy. "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean, but now are they holy." I Corinthians 7:14.
---Eloy on 1/12/09


Eloy,
Did Jesus set you free from sin?
---calhoon on 1/12/09


Eloy, you placed yourselve at the Great White Throne of Judgement when you die. I thought you said you were saved? You told us you were saved twice. Are you save now? You said all go before the Great White Throne of Judgment but the only one's going there are the unsave.
All born of the Spirit have been forgiven and they go to the Judgment Seat of Christ which comes before the the Great White Throne of Judgement for unbelievers.
At the Judgment Seat of Christ believers will receive their rewards for there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ.
---Mark_V on 1/12/09


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