Isaiah 58:7: "Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him, and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?"
Taking all from one poor to give to another poor has no merit. If at all possible, we must add to the blessing yet still we must be just with others as with ourselves. That recourse may just be the only recourse available. Pray.
---Nana on 5/15/09|
the bible says bring your tithes to the storehouse, which is the church, therefore i pay my tithes to my church. this day in time there are many people that need major financial assistance. from time to time i find my self in that situation, but what i do is make a personal sacrifice and give to those in need not take GODS money and do as i see fit.
---Melanie on 5/14/09|
Think about what Yahushua would do. Would He deliberately bypass a needy person that He is able to help in order to give to the temple instead? Undoubtedly, the pharisees wouldn't like it, but I think we both know what he would do.
---AlwaysOn on 5/14/09|
I wouldn't pay my whole tithe to them.
Also keep in mind that the church might be using your tithe for things like new carpets, etc.
---amand6348 on 5/14/09|
Rod,I think I get what you are trying to say,you just did not make it clear to some.There is a prosperity teaching,saying you cannot outgive God--give a hundred bucks and you will get a thousand,or a new car,or a profitable business.It is not true.You might not get a financial blessing in return.That is why you made the challenge-give up all your possessions and see if God will outgive you.Not that He cannot,but making us all rich because we give as prosperity teaching indicates is an extreme teaching and not true.I get what you were trying to say Rod.
---judy on 3/3/09|
If you want to help the family member,part of the tithe would be ok. I would think. The other part I would give to the church. The church does need support also. The problem I have with the church is: is the money being used properly? The people are never told where and how the money is being used. All we know is the pastor and wife are living very high,driving nice cars, going on expensive cruises, while the members sit wishing on the pews to just to be able to own a car. Something is wrong with that picture.
---Robyn on 3/2/09|
Try giving to both. I believe Jesus would if He only had tithe money to give away. The tithe used to be given to the priests, and one of the uses of the tithe was to help the poor.
---Betty on 3/1/09|
I suppose the question was prompted by a concern over whether the tithe would 'count' if not given to a church. I believe the Lord's words provide some insight to the question:
"Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink...Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?...And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me" (Matthew 25:34-40).
---Bobby3 on 1/14/09|
ralph: You are exactly right, and it shouldn't sit well. In the context of the blogs, I made the challenge to those people who believe in the popular churchs' myth--The myth that churches teach is that "one can not out give God." Another blogger confused the issue by saying that I said, "one can out give God." That confused the point and is not what I said.
One should have a giving heart and give as the Lord prompts, expecting nothing in return.
I believe God will supply all our needs, and this is not somehow dependant on how much we give.
Answer to your question: Maybe, but I am not concerned about it, I'll trust that my needs are met.
If I am not clear, keep working on me, and I'll try to clear it up.
---Rod on 1/13/09|
Rod, it just didn't sit well with me to read your challenge for somebody to give everything away including house, possessions, bank accounts, etc, while at the same time your posts indicate that, while you have chosen to switch careers, you are still a person of means with an income outside of the salary you "gave up". Do you plan on earning a salary in your new counseling career?
Generally, a challenge to people doesn't mean very much unless the one putting forth the challenge is willing to go first and lead by example.
---ralph7477 on 1/13/09|
Jesus said, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
He said "easier" not "impossible." In your heart, are you willing to give up everything you have to follow Jesus if asked? Are you willing to be at work and, when the time comes, be willing to do what God asked and not return home for your goods?
---Steveng on 1/12/09|
Hi ralph: I'll do my best to explain. Every comment needs to be understood by the blog title and the context of my response to others' comments. It's the same problem when people read the Bible and then pick phases out and try to explain them to each other.
(1)The challenge was to people who say "you can't outgive God. I say prove it.
(2) I don't believe God magically gives in return for our giving. Losing money in the market was an example.
(3) I gave up a secure income to go back to school because I felt that was where God was leading. I would not have left if I wasn't following Christ.
(4) I don't believe in "retirement," but many people relate to that term.
Does this help? Just ask for more specifics.
---Rod on 1/12/09|
Concerning Abraham's "tithe,"
(1) Abraham was very rich, but I don't see a record of him "tithing" from his wealth.
(2) Abraham went to save Lot and in the process defeated enemy kings. He gave a tithe (a one time happening) of the spoils and did not keep any of it for himself, he gave it all away.
(3) The Bible never sites Abraham as an example to tithe.
(4) Using Abraham as an example, he is the first to start circumcism, but we know that circumcism is not a NT requirement. The parallel, Abraham started circumcism and it was done away. Abraham gave a tenth at one unique event, and it's not even stated that it is an example to be continued.
That's my abbreviated take on Abraham.
---Rod on 1/12/09|
Hi again ralph: It dawned on me that you may have been asking how my leaving a lucrative career equates to following Christ. This median only allows brevity. I went to my office extra early so I could have time alone with God. For 30 days I felt that I needed to leave. I left with mental anxiety, but with peace (which passes understanding)in my heart following Christ. The rich young ruler story always impressed. Years ago I graduated with a degree in theology and Bible, but it was not accredited then. It is now. With a few undergrad credits, I can get a BA, which will allow me to go to a seminary. Frankly, I have no faith in seminary, but we'll see. I want to go into Christian counseling and therapy.
---Rod on 1/12/09|
The point is not how much Tithes one can give or even to suggest someone give everything they own and so to speak watch God give it back, tut, tut.
The demonstration of the rich man was to show the rich man was wealthy but unwilling to give it up, even though he stood in front of a king who had no need of what he had he was not willing to believe so, he was blind, poor and a wretched and lost the plot.
What can a man give in exchange for his soul? Nothing , we are asked to give what belongs in Tax's to the Tax man but also not to forget to give what we have with a good heart tithes to God, How much? What you are happy to give.
---Carla3939 on 1/12/09|
Rod, I've read your posts on other blogs and it's a bit confusing.
You write: "All I am saying as a challenge is to give all your goods, bank account, job, and house away and watch God give it all back."
In contrast:"My income is primary from the stock market, consequently, after I gave, I lost thousands and thousands of dollars."
You've also written: "I gave up a six figure and sometimes a double six figure income to follow Christ."
In contrast: "I "retired." I am calling it a long sabbatical while I go back and get some more schooling, trusting Christ to meet all my needs."
---ralph7477 on 1/12/09|
Rod: Note, I address you directly. You seem to be so full of yourself that there is no room for the Holy Spirit.
---jerry6593 on 1/12/09|
Elder: It's not impressive to me either. That's why I give it up, it was not a sacrifice for what I got in return, here and now not just for the future. The point is I gave it all, not just 10%, which seems to be a sacrifice to some. All I have left is still God's, not just 10%. There's an idea out there (not saying you) that once one gives their 10% the rest is theirs. We can get focused on money when God wants us all the time willing to do what He wants whenever He wants, not just 10% of the time.
What's with the spiteful attitude? You seem to spend more time attacking one's motives and character rather than the concept at hand?
---Rod on 1/11/09|
Rod... no typo. I was responding to what you said in your post. It sounds like you are saying that you can out give God.
A six figure + income is not impressive to me or God.
If you will look back you might well see that you gave up nothing compared to what you got. Think of the Rich young Ruler and ask him what he thinks "wealth" is worth now.
---Elder on 1/11/09|
Elder: I assume you had a typo in your first sentence. I know the statement comes across a bit strong because it is in so much contrast to what most churches teach. The statement that one can not out give God is over used and not provable. Luke 6:38 does not necessarily refer to money. It's in the context of how one treats another. All I am saying as a challenge is to give all your goods, bank account, job, and house away and watch God give it all back and more. Actions speak louder than words. I agree with if one is going to go church they need to help with the expenses. By the way, I gave up a six figure and sometimes a double six figure income to follow Christ. The church does not replace the temple. Love one another, where is it?
---Rod on 1/10/09|
jerry: If you want to ask me something, just ask me. When you address others about me, it's like gossip and back biting.
I assume you had a typo in your second paragraph. You can read my response to Elder on giving to God as a challenge.
This blog started as a question whether one should help a family member financially. Timothy 5:8 says one is to provide for his own household. One is also to honor their mother and father, which is to finanically help them when they are older. So the answer is yes to provide for one's family. The tithe, giving to the church, seems to supercede giving to family members who need help financially.
We are to love one another. Many of these blogs seem hateful, vengeful, and spiteful.
---Rod on 1/10/09|
Toni: No, tithe is sacred money reserved exclusively for the ministry. Offerings, however, in addition to the tithe may indeed be given to the poor - even your kin. Does your church maintain a poor fund? I would suggest that you ask them to help your relative.
You CAN'T outgive God! Those who say you can don't know Him very well.
Rod tells us that the tithe was an Israel temple tax. I wonder how he explains why Abraham tithed BEFORE there was an Israel or a temple!
---jerry6593 on 1/10/09|
Speaking of myths.... Rod you indicate that you can out give God. Do you make your own air to breathe? You may find out someday how hard it is to do that. Luke 6:38 still works.
Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and told them they were right in giving a tithe.
The New Testament speaks of three types of giving, 10%, 50% and giving 100%. You choose.
For God so loved the world that He gave..... 100% of His only begotten Son.
A "Christian" who doesn't want to give tells a lot about their faith. They should be looking for an excuse to give.
They want heat in the church and want to keep the money in their pocket. A Saved person shouldn't have to be begged to share wealth and possessions. Unless... their possessions possess them.
---Elder on 1/10/09|
Cindy: I'll spend a bit more time on this as you asked a question where the NT abolished the tithe? Let me ask where the NT confirmed the tithe. The tithe was basically an Israel tax for the temple and civil government system. The Israel temple and government system was a system of Religion/State. The local church wants to be the "storehouse." The local church is not supplying civil order.
wivv: You never "feel" you should help your children financially. Amazing.
It's a myth that you "can't outgive God." Sounds good...prove it. If this were true, no Church would ever ask for money.
I hope I don't sound harsh. This isn't meant to be. It's just a bit of legalism.
---Rod on 1/9/09|
That's a tough one. All I can state is from my own experience. We spent 33 years on the mission field as Faith Missionaries, which means we only had contributions to live on. There where times when things got rough, financially, but we always tithed to our local church. We have children who are also finding it hard financially, but they have never asked us, or do we feel we should give them our tithe instead of the church. One thing we have learned, you can't out give the Lord! My input would to keep tithing to your church, but also ask your pastor for his advice.
---wivv on 1/8/09|
Sharing our time or food is completely seperate from tithing. Yes, of course we should share these things and help people-but at the same time we are to be tithing our 10% to the church. Can you please give me scripture where God says he has abolished this ?
---cindy on 1/7/09|
Cindy: I have not a doubt of my mind that you mean will, and that you are a good person.
Here's the rub. Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees that they were claiming that all their money was God's. As a result, the Pharisees claimed they couldn't help their own parents.
Tithe is a legalism that hinders true giving. We should have an attitude of giving. When do we give "10%" of our time? Do we invite people over and freely share our food?
---Rod on 1/6/09|
What happened to "God's word never changes?"
(the Bible) Tithing is still very real and you are to be tithing 10% of your income to the church. I would say tithe to your church and also help your family member--if you cannot afford that--pray about it and do what the spirit leads you to do. I recently got laid off from my job--so I know hard times--but what little income I have every week--God gets my 10% no matter what. As long as I got it--God's gonna get it ,-)
---cindy on 1/6/09|
We are no longer subject to the law to "tithe" so I would first say, stop tithing to your church. Just give as Jesus pulls on your heart to do. Next, help anyone who has need of it. Do it joyfully as unto the Lord Himself. You will be blessed with JOY (Jesus, Others, You)by giving to those who have need. They will be blessed by seeing an example of someone giving in Jesus' name. God bless you all.
---Gabriel on 1/6/09|
It all depends on what you believe about tithing. If your church emphasizes this...they will tell you no, the tithe belongs to the "storehouse" (the church where you worship). I, myself, don't believe that Christians, living under the New Covenant,are required to "tithe". but we are required to GIVE.
We also have a responsibility to care for those of our own household or family. A monetary gift (if it doesn't simply enable destructive behavior) can be a powerful testimony if given with love.
---Donna66 on 1/6/09|
Churches - those buildings, non-prfit corporations, and denominations having their own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible - are a product of Satan. These "church" orgainzations take money, not to help the poor, but used toward the building and the entertainment. Churches cause confusion to newly born chistians. Biblical churches are the Christians, period, having an intimate relationship with God. And we don't need to go through a church to get to Him.
As for giving/personal tithing: whether family, friends, neighbors or stangers, we are all God's people who need help at times. Do an online bible search for "one another" and "each other" to help you decide what to do.
---Steveng on 1/5/09|
your family member is someone in need, not the spiritual storehouse = the church where you attend to be fed God's word.
therefore, you cant get tythe blessings of return by giving the tythe to a member of your family.
according to scripture, you are not supposed to expect any payback or reimbursement from them.
however, giving a tythe into the place where you are spiritually fed is no excuse to not give to those in need.
but when you give the tythe then you can exercise faith to expect a return.. enough to be able to live on yourself and surplus to give to others in need.
---opalgal on 1/5/09|
Absolutely, in a heart beat. Although, I would call it giving as the Lord directs. The tithe as such is a misnomer. Give as you are felt from the Lord and don't keep track of whether it is ten percent or not. We should have an overall spirit (attitude) of giving. Although, some people may be blessed with a gift of giving. Now that I think about it, one doesn't hear of Christians praying for the gift of giving. Give as unto the Lord and praise God for having the ability to do it. Please don't get hung thinking that one has to give to the "local church or some Christian institution" to be giving to the Lord.
---Rod on 1/5/09|
There is no instruction whatsoever that you need to give your money to the church. Reading Deut.14 I see that the tithe is used for the needy. Jesus said "as you have done it to the least of these, you have done it to me." There is instruction to "give" where there is a need. In your case it is a family member. Go and give to this need and don't let any religious outfit try to put guilt on you.
---john on 1/5/09|
why is it that one always thinks that tithing is the only way of giving.Yet according the bible there are 3different tithes not only one. one is for the servants of God. one is for the stranger, and one is for the religious celebrations. the church only teaches the first tithes(for understandable reason) yet normally the two other tithes should also be spend accordingly. next there was the templetax that is used for the building, and next there is freewill offerings etc. it is this freewill offering that is too be used for helping your family.
---Andy on 1/5/09|
Matthew 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
That implies nothing to do with how they came to be in need, or their relation, or if it's for the church, just that if any ask you should give. Now it doesn't say completely fill the need either, give what you can. Be wise not proud.
---Pharisee on 1/4/09|
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I do not believe the tithe(10% law) is for Christians today, However, I do believe in giving. Our gifts should be used for God to spread his gospel and further his kingdom.
This does NOT include a family member thats going through hard times or just has bad habits financial or otherwise.
---john_adams on 1/4/09|