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How To Spot A Cult

How do you spot a cult or religious group with beliefs that contradict the Bible?

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 ---Emily on 1/10/09
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Bob, I agree with you also. I started for the same reason and have quoted the passages because I know many are lazy and won't look anything up. I know it takes more space but it is important. Sometimes explaining things is hard in few words but God knows what to do with His Truth. Keep the good work, for that is what we are called to do, and know we do it with great honor for the glory of Christ.
---MarkV. on 3/1/09


Sometimes people who say they read the Bible and listen to the Holy Spirit are the biggest cultists of all, so you have to be careful. The Bible does tell us to do these things, but a person can say they do this and still have a distorted understanding of scripture.

To be a follower of Christ (i.e. a Christian) you must first understand Who Christ is, and what defines a Christian. What does Jesus expect from His followers? What does the Bible say about those who deny Jesus? What do Jesus and the NT writers say about false teachers and prophets?

If you have a good understanding of this, and refuse to be swayed by anyone who contradicts the clear teaching of the Bible, it is unlikely you will be deceived by a cult.
---Laurie on 2/28/09


It's really easy to spot a cult:

All ya gotta do is read the Bible... and listen to the Holy Spirit.

When somone says something in contradiction to those Two, you know [they're] part of a cult.

Sometimes, though it's really hard to spot a cult because you gotta read the Bible... and listen to the Holy Spirit.

Ain't never found a cult yet I couldn't spot: and that includes most of "Christianity".
---BrueB on 2/27/09


Betty, I've learned when individuals disagree with scripture, they are disagreeing with God and not me. So I put it in His hands. If the bible is God's Word John: 1:1, then we must take up the Sword of the Spirit and defend the gospel. The good thing is we have been set free by the Spirit of truth, and we know all the things freely given to us by God. If we see or hear anything not of God we generally know it. If not, we can check it out quickly. God's children have the same mind, body, and Spirit. Grace and peace to you and the brethren.
---Bob on 2/26/09


Bob- (in re: 2-20-09) Only the strong survive around here. Dig in. Arm yourself with the sword of the spirit, the helemt of salvation , the shield of faith, the breastplate of righteousness.
---Betty on 2/26/09




Alan, here is my answers to your questions:
"How do you know what people's motives are?" I can tell the motives of many by their answers. What is in the heart always comes out. Without naming names, some speak for the RCC not the Word. Some speak for the Sabbath. Some don't like what you write so they stay on the outside ready to throw rocks at you no matter the blog, they are holding some kind of sin in their hearts. And then there is others who are working for the enemy bringing in false doctrines. What that tells me is they have the wrong gospel. They are sinners who want to enter heaven by thier own good works. Jesus came to save the ungodly.
"How do I know their nature?" Well, the Bible tells me.
---MarkV. on 2/22/09


Catherine, I enjoy reading your replies, it's encouraging to meet one who is of the same mind as Paul's and those who understand his teachings of grace. He was the perfect selection. Outside of Christ, he was probably the most hated man by those who crucified our Lord. Especially since he was one of the elect. May God richly bless you with his lavish and abundant grace. Your brother in Christ.
---Bob on 2/20/09


Bob...I do believe you when you said, "I am on here to help other Christians". May God bless you. Believe me God's people needs all the help God will make available to us, His people.
---catherine on 2/20/09


Mark, I got on this network thinking I could help other Christians. I try to answer questions quoting scriptures from God. I use scriptures according to my understanding of grace. A word mentioned around 122 times. A word by which we are saved, God sets on a throne of grace. Paul says we are under grace, I could go on and on, etc.. I'm just an instrument of God, just like you, that He can use to touch people's lives. Yet, I'm tempted not to reply many times to those who dispute or disbelieve God's word. If I just answer with scripture, God's word is disputed. It's not a good feeling getting attacked for defending God's word is it?
---Bob on 2/20/09


Mark ... Forgive me, I meant Nana, not Anna.

I'm glad you don't say that I am one of those who throw stones at you.

I have never intended to do that, nor to hurt you.

And I do try to discuss, not argue, but sometimes when you will not answer, I feel it is you who won't discuss. And that hurts. As it has when you have accused me of wrong motives, and of saying things I have not said.

You did not answer my question: "How do yuo know what people's motives are? Hw do yuo know what our nature is?"

I get impressions from what you write here as to the sort of guy you are ... but I do not claim to know your nature. That would be unkind, and I hope unjust.
---alan8566_of_UK on 2/20/09




Alan, you must have a guilty conscience for thinking you are one. Yet, If anyone was going to mention something concerning these blogs, I knew it was going to be you. The fruits that people show when they answer gives evidence of their nature. No, you and Anne are not one of them. As for Anna, I don't know who she is. I know who discusses Scripture and those who throw stones at others, that is simple, I don't have to know their hearts, I get hit by the stones.
I am not here to argue with you, that is what you want. If you wanted to discuss something I would do it. But you don't. At least not with me. I am not here to convince you or anyone. God does that work through His Word, the Truth. If it is not convincing you, it is not my fault.
---MarkV. on 2/20/09


Mark ... Am I one of those others of whom yu say "Much of what you say, the rocks you throw, your intentions are well known to me. You and two others do the same thing. That's your nature"

Even if I am not, and you refer to Anne & Anna and another, you are jumping to conclusions.

How do yuo know what people's motives are? Hw do yuo know what our nature is?

If we try to discuss things with yuo, and not just accept your interpretation without question, as you appear to desire, that just means you have failed to convince us with yuor arguments.

It does not mean we are throwing rocks at you.
---alan8566_of_UK on 2/20/09


Mark V.~ I'm sure you've read my message to you under the 'Can you lose your salvation' blog. If not, please read it and abide by that request. Thank you.
---Anne on 2/19/09


Anne, If you have not notice, these is a spiritual warfare that we are in right now that really prompts me to answer the way I do. I take the gospel of Christ very serious since this is my life that I have committed to. I love others very much but when it comes to compromising the gospel just to be nice is not my cup of tea.
There is only one gospel, one Christ, one salvation, one sacrifice and Christ has covered that all for all those who believe by faith in His works on the cross for believers only. Anything else is a false gospel and a false hope that many will encounter if they are not told the Truth.
There is no compromising just to be a good guy. We are to tell the Truth. Lies are not accepted.
---MarkV. on 2/19/09


Nana~ I'm not sure what is into him lately, merely because we disagree with him. Continue to be an amazing servant of God, who speaks the whole truth of God. Thanks for all your help and friendship. God bless. ~Anne
---Anne on 2/19/09


The interesting aspect of spotting a cult, is that if you are in one, everything else will appear as one.
---Ken_Rank on 2/19/09


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Nana, you bring nothing to me that is ever edifying. Much of what you say, the rocks you throw, your intentions are well known to me. You and two others do the same thing. That's your nature.
I am here for one purpose only, to bring the Truth of Scripture. You do not like what I say because what I say effects your believes.
When I spoke the truth to a group at my work, I knew who didn't like it either, they would get up and leave. The Truth convicts you, and you don't like that, so you attack. I don't expect anything else.
I don't want to be like Shawn, I want to be me. I do listen to him, but not everything he has to say I will agree with. It has to come from Scripture. He is human and capable to make errors just like everyone else.
---MarkV. on 2/19/09


2 Tim 2:24 And the Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. 1 Cor 1:18 For the word of the cross is to those who are perishing foolishness, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 2 Tim 3:12 And indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. In and through Him, not self.
---Bob on 2/18/09


MarkV,
A a vote for Shawn_M.T. , and you suggested I should listen to him, well you added nothing to me in conference. All, that he has said on this blog is akin to my beliefs. Not the same I can say to your's and joe's comments. We had our differences in times past and not only God knows what happened, we also know. Yet, can I deny the soundness of his delivering the Faith and the Gospel here? No, not by far, I applaud his revelations, which to many are new and wonderful and much needed. Now, I suggest to you to listen and emulate him, for he seems more grounded in the word of God with each passing day.
---Nana on 2/18/09


Nana, your answer did not hurt at all since it is truth. Truth is always Truth. I don't know the hearts of others whether they are saved or not. What I do know is that God ordained everything to be and that nothing can change that. He spoke in His Word that others would be there to fight against the Truth of His Word, by the evidence you have given when you answer, you seem to be one who was ordained to be one of them.
Whatever decisions you make will give everyone a clue of which you were ordain for. So far the odds show you on the side of those who oppose the Word of Truth. Since you take that position now, but it could change, only God knows the answer already.
---MarkV. on 2/17/09


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"Anne, this morning you out did yourself." "You seem to know the hearts of people. Who is save and who is not from where you live." "Again you must be seeing the hearts of others from where you live. You know who is save and who is not, and who has fear of God and who doesn't. Only God knows who is saved."
MarkV. on 2/13/09 -Can You Lose Your Salvation blog

Seems that "Only God knows", and you that is?

MarkV. ",it was never my intention to offend you, if I did, well, it was meant to be,the God we serve has ordained all things."...
---Nana on 2/17/09


Part 1

People in cults are humans like we
Christians are, so we, too, can have ways and tendencies that are cultic, though we are not in cults.

One example , certain cults claim they are the only ones who are the real Christian church.

We can tend to have favoritism for our own churches and denominations, and even look down on Christians in other groups. I have heard a pastor compare his church with other churches, actually putting down others in order to make his own church look good. But we have, 2Cor 10:12):For we dare not class ourselves or compare ourselves with those who commend themselves. But they, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
---Religious_Division on 2/17/09


part2
All differing religious groups claim to be
teaching the truth, yet their beliefs and
practices not only contradict the Bible but also the teachings of other religious groups. When the practices and beliefs of one group contradict those of another, someone has to be wrong because truth does not contradict truth. When such contradictions occur, someone must be believing, practicing and worshiping in error.
Jesus said, in John 4:24, that acceptable
worship must be offered in spirit and in truth.
Those who worship in error must be
worshiping in vain. Since their worship is
vain, they are lost and so is anyone who joins with them while condoning their error.
---Religious_Division on 2/17/09


Nana, 2. Every time you want to offer something it is always negative hurtful words to me. You can apply the whole context for that passage seems to be talking about people like you, "who have eyes that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have forsaken the right way and gone astray." Seem those comments are directed at you who bring your own words of deceptions to feed your own hungry evil heart.
---MarkV. on 2/16/09


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Nana, your words do not hurt me at all. You would have to come to where I live and hit me with your fists in order for you to hurt me. Words like yours do not hurt me. They only give evidence of what is in your heart. Even without your answer I already knew what was in it. For sure they are not for the glory of God.
Shawn T is a great guy, and he answers very well. He might not answer the way I do, but his reply's you should listen to concerning Truth. That way you can learn something.
---MarkV. on 2/16/09


2 Peter 2:16: "But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet."
What an excellent repply by Shawn_M.T. (2Cor.13:5-8)!
It goes to show that a theology which makes of man less than a "dumb ass" has no validity in God's kingdom and this I say to MarkV and joe.
---Nana on 2/16/09


--Joe & MarkV:

Joe, Your statement "You win', makes it look like you were playing some sort of game. I'm not. I'm only in hopes of share with you that, you're defiled by what come out of your mouth: despite your intentions.

MarkV, I've always been in agreement, as well, concerning all that is going to happen is happening within God's Ordained Will. My post suggested nothing to the contrary.

Joe, I get now what you were trying to share! Your continuous use of defiling figures of speech, reveals that God's Will has Ordained you to abide in the state of mind of a reprobate. Sorry for not understanding at first.

I'll leave you with these verses to read 2Cor.13:5-8.

Good Day to You Both & God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 2/15/09


Just write down some of the things which you disagree with and check them against scripture. Compare them to what you know to be standard Christian doctrine. I have always heard that any religion which doesn't believe that the bible is the inerrant and infallable word of God is a cult. This includes teaching beliefs which are not scriptural and man made rules and regulations. Those who are born and live their lives within a particular religion will probably die within their religion. No amount of discussion can change one's belief. Only God can do that through the Holy Spirit.
---Bob on 2/15/09


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Shawn, I was surprise at your answer to Joe. I have known you for a while now and have never read where you get upset at someone' answer. Joe did say he wasn't trying to offend you.
His answer was:
"Isa.46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will all that I please.

Shawn,it was never my intention to offend you, if I did, well, it was meant to be,the God we serve has ordained all things.
Here Shawn, I am in agreement with Joe concerning all that is going to happen. If what is happening is outside of God's will, then God is not Sovereign, if He is not Sovereign, then He is not God. That's why he quoted Isa. 46:10.
---MarkV. on 2/15/09


Shawn,
You win, You just don't or never will get it.( I wonder why he didnt know the word predestinated wasnt in the Bible, maybe he doesnt study to show himself approved of GOD, he sure seems mean spirited, and seems to know a lot about people he's never met) Oh um, was I thinking out loud again, sorry.
Just Keep teaching falsely...

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be, and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
---joe on 2/14/09


kathr- The Lord is magnified. Have I not made it plain yet that I am a Christian? Jesus Christ made everybody. Can you tell me where you can find that in the Bible?
---Betty on 2/13/09


Betty, you say that men and women existed before Adam and Eve. Please show where this is found in scripture. I ask you to do this because I follow the example which is found in Acts 17:11.
---Rob on 2/12/09


Betty, you were asked a question. Are you going to answer Rob?

AND Please read my comment AGAIN....do you see the word MAYBE?

What I posted was one belief of main stream Christian belief. Are YOU mainstream Christianity?

May I ask what faith you are?
---kathr4453 on 2/13/09


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--Joe:

Joe, Your response of trying to justify a non-existent reaction to your defiling figure of speech, by stating "WELL, IT WAS MEANT TO BE, THE GOD WE SERVE HAS ORDAINED ALL THINGS", only reveals that you're under the illusion you were serving & doing the acceptable Will of God by suggesting & encouraging a disregard for His Word.

If you've learned one thing, lets hope it's this~Walk as the Children of Light do, seeking not the justification of defiling words but repentance from them because it's neither pleasing nor acceptable unto the Lord.

Be Not deceived into falsely believing that the way you've responded here to what you've said, is the Truth of what's justifiably pleasing & acceptable before God.
---Shawn_M.T. on 2/13/09


Kathr- Genesis is in more ways than one a book of beginnings. Jesus Christ made man in His image, did He not? Say this - yes. The Lord gave angels an unction to serve Him and not man, furthermore, He did not give them the earth for He owns it. The Lord is magnified. God gave Adam a wife, didn't He? Which daughter did Cain marry? The sons and daughters of Adam married who? Lord knows you have found out something. You said the angels used the earth for a playground. Where is that?
---Betty on 2/12/09


Betty, I mean Genesis 1:1 & 2.

If in the beginning God created the heavens and Earth....and then it says, and teh earth was without form and void and darkness FELL UPON IT....I believe this to be when Satan and 1/3 of the angels rebelled.

No human creation/ vegetation or animal life could have survived between Genesis vs 1 & 2....no sun...probably a million degrees below zero etc, which would be no vegitation , no life whatsoever.

Man was created on the sixth day, after ALL provision was made for man to survive. ( The sun, moon...vegetation, animal life etc) God rested on the 7th from ALL his work. No creation after the 7th....or God lied and continued to WORK after He rested.

---kathr4453 on 2/12/09


Betty, you say that men and women existed before Adam and Eve. Please show where this is found in scripture. I ask you to do this because I follow the example which is found in Acts 17:11.
---Rob on 2/12/09


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Kathr- Surely men and women lived before Adam and Eve. They did not live in the Garden. Adam had no control over what God did. People were there whether you like it or not. Genesis is in two parts. God created man. Then He created man again. See Genesis. My word about volcanos is this: stay away from them if you don't want to get hurt.
---Betty on 2/12/09

Betty, I see no where in Genesis of two accounts of creation. Genesis 5, 1-3 clearly state that it is one in the same Adam, created after the Image of God, given a soul, and begat children.

We don't know what earth was like between genesis 1 & 2. Maybe earth was the Angels playground. But Angels are not men, have NO BLOOD and cannot procreate.
---kathr4453 on 2/12/09


Kathr- Surely men and women lived before Adam and Eve. They did not live in the Garden. Adam had no control over what God did. People were there whether you like it or not. Genesis is in two parts. God created man. Then He created man again. See Genesis. My word about volcanos is this: stay away from them if you don't want to get hurt.
---Betty on 2/12/09


Alan- God created man. Then God created man again. Look in Genesis. Adam and Eve were created for a special purpose - their line would be the line that Jesus came from. Special that line was. Not just a bunch of mud and clay. The KJV is special because words have been changed too much in other versions, and any professional Bible scholar (which I am not) knows that. They, too, might use other versions, yet they know the truth. Words can change the meaning of a whole sentence and paragraph. In ancient times the Bible was considered sacred. Nowadays it is considered a book. Your family loves you Alan.
---Betty on 2/12/09


Betty: You expound some very unusual doctrines. Are you a member of a cult?
---jerry6593 on 2/12/09


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Warwick ... Please read that blog in full!

Particularly the third and final paragraph.

Betty had assured us (on another blog) that there were people before Adam & Eve.

I was trying to point out that if that is the case, the KJV (and all other Bibles) lead us into a cult of belief in Adam & Eve as the first man & woman.

Betty can't say both that there were people before A & E, and that the KJV avoids us getting us into a cult!

The KJV has not avoided Betty getting into the cultish belief that there were men before Adam
---alan8566_of_UK on 2/12/09


Isa.46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Shawn,it was never my intention to offend you, if I did, well, it was ment to be,the God we serve has ordained all things.I would like to share with you, one of the most comforting versus for me, I truly rest in passages like these,

Eph. 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

I feel we have both learned from this, that is good thing.

2John6
This is Love
---joe on 2/11/09


The only LINE that survived the Flood was through Seth....HUMMM...

God cursed Cain yes, and we know Jesus did not come through or would come through the line of Cain.

YET, even all but Noah and his family through Seth's line was spared. The GODLY line of Seth,(sons of God...Just as Adam is called a son of God,) inter-married with Cain's line.....(Satan trying to defile the Godly line of Seth, bringing upon the earth MIGHTY powerful people, who turned away from God (read about it in Romans 1).... bringing a flood.

Yet, there is so many cults today, telling you their were different creations....just as some think they shot out of a volcano. WHY? Because they don't want to accept ORIGINAL SIN!!!!
---kathr4453 on 2/11/09


Alan you wrote 'the KJV is responsible for the very dangerous cult that says that Adam was the first man, and Eve the first woman.'

Most translations, and the Hebrew texts from which they were translated say Adam & Eve were the first humans. That is orthodox Christian belief.

In reality by using 'replenish, (Genesis 1:28) instead of the correct 'fill' the KJV has promoted that there were people before Adam & Eve.

Alan would you please explain what you mean?

---Warwick on 2/11/09


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Betty ...Can you not spot when someone is speaking ironically?

But you praise the KJV as being the fount of all truth (or words to that effect. and it is, although no more that many other versions of the Bible

You have said elsewhere that there were men and women before Adam & Eve.

No Bible supports that statement, so you say the KJV and all Bibles lie.
---alan8566_of_UK on 2/11/09


Alan- Park your car over hell. Cain's wife came from another land, not where Adam and his family lived. God had to put a mark on Cain - why? God said He is the way, the truth and the life. Therefore, where does it say it? You do not like the KJV? Who gave you your Bible when you were little? Did your parents give it to you? Tell you what - you should not criticize the KJV, should you? Don't seethe about Adam and Eve. God gave Adam and Eve another line and He cursed Cain's line. Why is that? Jesus Christ will come and sort things out one day. If you really want to know about Cain, ask Jesus. Let Him tell you.
---Betty on 2/11/09


Shawn t, thank you so much for understanding what I meant with the word believers. Some times people get it wrong and that is the reason I said what I said. No other reason because when I read it I thought you were suggesting two kinds. Thank you so much for your reply. From what you have said not to take lighty, I will do my best to word my figures of speech better.
---MarkV. on 2/11/09


--MarkV & Joe:

FYI~MarkV I've told you before, I've always believed in Predestination! I just didn't know the actual word was in the Bible.

We all make mistakes but No matter our intentions, it's always inappropriate & unacceptable to take lightly any figure of speech which is CLEARLY a Defiling Disregard for God's Word!!

It's not what goes into our mouths that defiles us but what comes out. We're to learn to let our communication be, Yea, yea: Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

MarkV, I agree & accept your suggestion and hope it puts your mind at rest & that you don't get upset but I wasn't "suggesting that there are two kinds of 'SAVED' believers". Good Day & God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 2/11/09


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Betty .. "The KJV Bible is the best way to avoid getting mixed up with a cult"

Betty ... the KJV is responsible for the very dangerous cult that says that Adam was the first man, and Eve the first woman.

You have assured us on another blog that there were men and women before Adam & Eve, so the KJV lies about this.
---alan8566_of_UK on 2/10/09


The KJV Bible is the best way to avoid getting mixed up with a cult. Compare what they say to the light of the scripture. Then pray. Ask for the Holy Ghost to guide you. He is your friend not, He is God. Learn from Him, keep calling for Him until He answers. Just this: give up hate. Love your neighbor as yourself, and love God above all. Keep your eyes on Jesus. What would Jesus do? Ride with the Lord, not cults. Bury your hatred in hell like this: "Lord, I give my life to you." Wield yourself not, but get God to wield His word for you.
---Betty on 2/10/09


Shawn, thank you for your reply. I don't want to get into semetics with this question. I wanted to make it clear. Almost all of mankind believe in something. And many of them believe their is a God. But Scripture only mentions one believer that is saved. not two kinds.
My suggestion was, Not all who call themselves believers reside in the faith of God's light" That was not good enough for you yet is exactly what I said. By not making it clear of that point, you suggested there is two kinds of saved believers, one who doesn't obey, and one who does by faith. That was all. Peace to you.
---MarkV. on 2/10/09


Shawn, I don't believe that Joe gave a stumbling block to you. What he said was "a figure of speech" statement. "He in no way encourages you to, rip those passages and burn them. as you say."
If his intention was to really encourage people to do that then it would be stumbling block. That is not what he means if you read all of his comments. I use the same, figures of speech, when someone does not follow passages in God's Word and refuse to believe they are revealed truth.
He as I, believed what you previously stated, that Predestination is not Scripture. I believe you responded to the other comment, rather then to answer his comments to Predestination.
---MarkV. on 2/10/09


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--MarkV:

MarkV, Dead faith is believing without Obedience vs. the Live Hopes of Faith in Christ of Obedient Believers who are Saved. Your suggesting & confusing all believers as being Obediently Saved in Christ.

James 2:19 reveals that the D-v-l, who has been in the presence of God, truly believes & trembles but he's not saved.

Truly believing alone in God doesn't make one righteously saved, without Live Faith your still wicked.

Pro.11:8 The righteous is delivered out of trouble, and the wicked cometh in his stead.

God provides an escape that's delivered the righteous out of trouble, and the wicked come in his stead & fall to the temptation which God has provided an escape for.
---Shawn_M.T. on 2/10/09


Shawn, you said, "I was revealing, Bother, that not all believers are saved because not all believers reside in the Faith of God's Light: Example of this being, the one spoken of that believes & trembles in James 2:19. Shawn, you must be suggesting instead, "not all who call themselves believers reside in the faith of God's light."Having no desire for the ways of God word and not able to perceive should make it clear they are not believers.
There is no true believers who are not saved. "Your statement suggest there is two kinds of believers." But the Bible only gives one kind. All other are imposters. James 2:17-19 proves that, is that what you are saying?
---MarkV. on 2/9/09


--Joe:*I would'nt want to be accused of placing stumbling blocks. You see we still believe and do the truth**

-*- MarkV, Do you believe this to be a Stumbling Block to the Brethren or the Truth of God's Word, to suggest: "please rip those chapters from your Bible and burn them"?

"I never said I understand all of the Bible---joe on 2/5/09"

Joe, It's very apparent that you really don't UNDERSTAND the Truth found in the Bible, if you think when rebuking others, that it's not a Stumbling Block to make suggestions that encourages them to have a disregard for God's Word, just because your false impression that they don't believe those parts of the Bible or even if they, as of yet don't believe
---Shawn_M.T. on 2/9/09


Shawn, I stand to be corrected, another word for "whosoever" is, hostis he tis ho,ti hos'-tis, hay'-tis, hot'-ee

From G3739 and G5100, which some, that is, any that, also (definitely) which same: - X and (they), (such) as, (they) that, in that they, what (-soever), whereas ye, (they) which, who (-soever). Compare G3754.

Sorry for the confusion
---joe on 2/8/09


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---MarkV:**Their only hope is if God comes and saves them***

MarkV, I agree!

I was revealing, Bother, that not all believers are saved because not all believers reside in the Faith of God's Light: Example of this being, the one spoken of that believes & trembles in James 2:19.

Having received no desire for the Ways of God's Word, they're unable to perceive the Light of God's escape from temptation. As you said everything they do is of sin, separate from God.

The Light of God is our escape from temptation shining in the darkness but those remaining in the darkness of choosing sin, in God's Completed Plan, will not utilize the escape from temptation because their unable to comprehend God's Light.
---Shawn_M.T. on 2/8/09


Very well said Mark, we said the same thing just in a little different way. Only you said it better and in a easier way to understand,Thanks. I would'nt want to be accused of placing stumbling blocks. You see we still believe and do the Truth. Jesus said,those who do Truth come to the light.(John 3:21) Which still includes doing Titus 1:9-13.(the only difference is we arn't in Crete.)

Once again Thanks,
2john6
This is Love,
---joe on 2/8/09


Shawn, the question you gave Joe to be a trick question.
"Does the Mercy of God refuse granting repentance?
First of all the question cannot be answered with a yes or no. Why?
Because it is the mercy of God on the individual that grants him rependance. And it is only granted to those God wants to have mercy on for salvation.
Yes, God grants mercy to all mankind in that the sun shines on everyone. But the mercy for salvation is only for those whom the Lord has elected unto salvation. They are granted repentance, by the Holy Spirit convicting the individual enabling him to pour his heart out to God.
God does not give this mercy of repentance to everyone, "For I have mercy on whom I have mercy"
---MarkV. on 2/8/09


Shawn,(part 1) the word "whosoever" in Greek is the word "Pas" or its "Pas anthrpas" it means "the all" heres an example in the Old Testament: The 'whole' world was saved with eight people on the boat. It means now that Christ has put the New Testament in effect all flesh can be saved, as opposed to the one flesh in the Old Testament, His Sprit has been poured out on all, that doesnt mean everyone is going to Heaven.The whosoevers that receive His grace or unmerited favor, will be saved. Those are the ones that will earnestly call upon the name of the Lord, but they had nothing to do with their spiritual birth, were born by HIS will, not ours.
---joe on 2/8/09


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Shawn, (part 2)
Gods mercy is given to those He has foreknow before the foundation of the world. He doesnt refuse others because He never knew them. Matt. 7:22,23 So I guess the answer is No.
Ps. I haven't preached or spread the Gospel to anyone on here,I was rebuking you, there is a difference. The word knew in Matt. 7 and the word in Rom. 8 foreknew is the same word (g1097) ginosko , the word used in Rom. 8 uses the prefix pro which is our word pre, (preknew or preknown). If you dont like what Jesus says in Matt. 7:22,23, you will have your chance to take it up with HIM at the Judgment.
---joe on 2/8/09


Shawn, James 2:19 speaks nothing of what you quoted for 2:19. It speaks of true faith always producing good works.
you said that God's light shines in the darkness, I agree. Then you said,
even though those who are to remain in darkness have been Predestined to eternally abide there in God's Completed Plan. I agree, you said:

"Even though it goes unperceived by those still abiding in darkness, God with every temptation has provided a way to escape it, no matter who is being tempted.
---Shawn_M.T. on 2/7/09"
The wicked, or lost are born sinners. Everything they do is sin. Separation from God. Their only hope is if God comes and saves them. Believers are provided a way of escape from temptation.
---MarkV. on 2/7/09


---Anne:

Anne~Thanks, your response is encouraging & your concern is appreciated!

Any persecution though......only persecutes me to my Blessing & Peace in the Truth. Wherever Christ is preached, whether in pretense, or in truth, therein do will I rejoice, with hopes of edification.

I pray that we all neither get upset nor converse with the intentions of upsetting one another.

Good Day to You Sister & God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 2/8/09


Shawn M.T.~ You said that very straightforwardly. I hate to see you get upset since you're a pretty mellow guy but you're right, ALL scripture has to parallel together, and needs to harmonize, or we're not going to have a true understanding of any of it.

You've given scriptures before that show that through God's grace, He opens our eyes to our sinful lives, but then He allows us to decide if we will follow Him or reject Him. What a merciful and longsuffering God He is to put up with us and wait patiently for us to turn to Him from our wretched lives of sin, and now live for Him. Keep up your patience and diligence for God, and may He continue to richly bless you.

---Anne on 2/7/09


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---MarkV:***He provides escape from temptations to believers only.***

James 2:19 would beg to differ that God provide escape from temptation to believers only. We're neither born believers nor does every believer come out of the darkness, to reside in the Faith of God's Light.

The darkness doesn't comprehend the Light of God but God's Light still shines in the darkness, even though those who are to remain in darkness have been Predestined to eternally abide there in God's Completed Plan.

Even though it goes unperceived by those still abiding in darkness, God with every temptation has provided a way to escape it, no matter who is being tempted.
---Shawn_M.T. on 2/7/09


--Joe

Joe, YES & I believe every Word of God but the Word doesn't tell us to place 'Stumbling Blocks' before one another!!

Never make points that obviously only a unbeliever would make, like encouraging anyone to actually deface the Word of God: In making such suggestions, it's only you who are 'TAKING AWAY' or 'ADDING TO' God's Word. Those type of points aren't the way to spread the gospel.

Your way of spreading the gospel isn't of the Spirit but of doctored up 'man-made stuff', because you don't even believe the Truth of God's Word that WHOSOEVER earnestly calls upon the Lord shall be saved.

Answer this question with YES or NO....
Does the Mercy of God refuse granting repentance?
---Shawn_M.T. on 2/7/09


Shawn, The point was, you dont need those parts of your Bible,you dont believe them, so who is really taking away from HIS Word? Do you teach the doctrines of GOD's Sovereignty, or the Biblical Truth of Predestination. Rev.22:19 is talking about "adding" to HIS word ("Accepting christ as you personal savior" and "Get saved")manmade stuff like that,and unlearned men that dont like the idea that GOD would make men,just to throw them away when HE is done with them,so therefor they wont teach predestination or that some are reprobate (they take away),it's not talking about unbelievers defacing a Bible.

Answer this question with a yes or no....
Does GOD grant repentance?
---joe on 2/6/09


Shawn T, I just saw your response to my answers and am glad we agree. You didn't give me a reason why you disagreed with my #4. I was hoping you would have given me why but that is ok. We can discuss things and that is what is wonderful. Praise be to God. There is some who will fight you tooth and nail for the rights of man, and in the process take the view of election out of the hands of God and puts it into the hands of man. This makes the purposes of Almighty God conditioned by the precarious wills of apostate men and makes temporal events to be the cause of His eternal acts. Which I find so rediculous. It just doesn't make any sense. Thanks again brother for the discussion.
---MarkV. on 2/6/09


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Shawn, said: "Why do you even think, let alone speak & believe in terms of ultimatums, when it come to God"He gives them for our obedience and dependance on Him. Our obedience does not change the amount of those who will be save. The plan is complete before God. I see you and so many doing is you look at God's plan from man's perspective. If you went outside that you would see that the whole Creation is of God and His purpose and will, and that from cover to cover speaks about how awesome He is and how rebellious we are. How He gave Adam and Eve the right to choose and what they did with it. In the very hour of man's first sin, God sovereignly intervened with a gratuitous promise of deliverance.
---MarkV. on 2/6/09


Shawn 2. The real miracle that we can admire is not that God, in His infinite love and justice, has not elected all of this guilty race to be saved, but that He has elected any." When we consider how heinous thing sin is, together with its desert of punishment, and on the other, what holiness is, together with God's perfect hatred for sin, the marvel is that God decided to save a single sinner. And certainly it was not because of something good in us, for we were dead in trespasses and sins and children of wrath. That is the miracle.
But those who believe they are save complain. It was not good enough they were saved, they want to obligate God to save them all.
---MarkV. on 2/6/09


--MarkV:

I only disagree with your Fourth Point.

Amen, Though to everything else you've shared in these last two post. You've stated it all very well! Adam himself choosing to sin, is what I was in hopes of sharing with you.

I'm always edified when we share with one another & I'm glad that, once again, we've come to an understanding of one another in the Lord! Thanks for patiently sharing.

Good Day to You Brother & God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 2/5/09


Emily,(part 1) If your still reading these responses, I must apologize, my advice to you would be to read your Bible,as much as possible,take notes at any services you attend,then you must verify in the Bible
and by all means try to understand 1st century thinking(customs, cultures,idioms,and metafors)Some books to help get you started are,Strong's exhaustive concordance,Hastings'Dictionary of the Bible, Manners and Customs of the Bible(James M. Freeman),Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica (John Lightfoot)What you should do is 2Tim.2:15
---joe on 2/5/09


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---Joe:***If not, please rip those chapters from your Bible and burn them***

Joe, You should read Rev. 22:19 because there's no rightous excuse to encourage anyone to take away from the Word of God: by stating things like rip & burn those chapters from your Bible!
---Shawn_M.T. on 2/5/09


Emily (part2)Remember this,Satan is the Great deceiver he looks and sounds just like the real thing.(2Cor.11:4-16)
Stay away from anyone that preaches "let jesus into your heart"or "accept christ as your personal savior"and "pray this simple sinners prayer and get saved"

These are all false doctrines. Jesus said "Repent or perish" "deny self" "Ye must be born again"

It is not easy to enter the gates of Heaven
Jesus said so...Luke 13:23,24

Hope this helps,
2john6
---joe on 2/5/09


Shawn,the ability to hear and to see(truth) comes from GOD, the goings of man are from the Lord,how can he understand his own way?What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose. Repentance is granted to us,it's a gift, it's Grace (unmerited favor) Faith is the gift of GOD, not of ourselves.God corrects His children, not the devil's.

I'm saying,this cosmos is according to His counsel, of His own will.

Maybe I have missed something,I'm under the impression that you dont believe in predestination, you do or you don't?If not, please rip those chapters from your Bible and burn them.I never said I understand all of the Bible,I just believe it all.And the GOD I serve answers to no one.
2john6
---joe on 2/5/09


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