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Was Divorced By My Wife

I was divorced by my wife, despite my doing everything to save the marriage I possibly could. Am I therefore meant to remain single? That's a pretty bleak outlook if true.

Moderator - Why did she divorce?

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 ---Graham on 1/11/09
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Why is it bleak if you were meant to be single?

You have God and Jesus. They are better than any "wife" you could have.
---amand6348 on 5/14/09


LOVE all this variance and squirming of thought....

The Basics:

A true believer essentially has no choice but to accept that 'the Bible' is the Word of God. Accordingly, he/she, must be very careful about 'parsing' various words, terms, phrases, transslations, editions, etc.

Essentially then, a wise, true believer will come to accept that more than anything, it is the consistent application of PRINCIPLES in Scripture (that NEVER have need of 'better' translations, corrections, etc) that matters most. In the end then, GOD (MY Father and MY Creator) 'hates' divorce, what side then should 'I' come down on regarding said subject? (Go Ahead....YOUR SERVE! LOL!)
---Michael on 4/29/09


So you don't understand the penatly for Adultery go ahead and commit it then!
---Carla3939 on 2/2/09


Rick,

Christ said forgiven you forgot the most important part SIN No More.

Where did it mention she married again?
---Carla3939 on 2/2/09


carla, so quick to judge, but not your place to say who God forgives.
He married me under false pretenses, then divorced me for the woman he cheated on ME WITH.
Yes, I have forgiven him.
You ask where is GODS forgiveness? It's throughout THE WHOLE BIBLE. If you have the faith of a mustard seed. FAITH THAT GOD HAS FORGIVEN.
This includes divorce/remarriage. There's NO SIN THAT CAN'T BE FORGIVEN EXCEPT FOR BLASPHEMY OF THE HOLY GHOST.
Jesus says to forgive your brothers and sisters no matter what sin they commit, 70 x 7. For as you judge others, you will be judged.
So how you judge/condemn me, is how you will be judged/condemned.
Don't put your salvation on the line for a matter as small as this, my sister.
Show LOVE!
---miche3754 on 2/1/09




Granted, I have not read ALL of the posts here, but I do find myself on the side of grace. I have one item for consideration, and that is the woman at the well. She was married how many times? She was shacked up with yet another man when she finally met Jesus. Jesus knew all these things and still did what? Tell her, -sorry, but I have a very special place in h_ll for you- No. He said she was forgiven. If she can be forgiven after 3 remarriages, can't I (whoever), be forgiven after 1 (or even 3), remarriages? ... or was she the one special person, from the foundation of the earth, created for this one act of forgiveness?
---Rick on 2/1/09


Rod,

Not a single scripture on divorce, fornication,Adultery was posted is this your responce is that because it was your own opinnion?

Miche,

If your husband left you you are not permitted to re-marry becaue God did not sanction the leaving, man cannot put asunder.
If he marries again he is committing Adultery and if you marry you will commit adultery.

Matth 19:9

[except] you commit fornication YOUR husband is not permitted to put you away. If he did you have to remain unmarried, unwedded, single according to other translations.

where is the forgiveness in that since you did not commit fornication???
---Carla5754 on 2/1/09


I may not understand all that people are saying here, so forgive me if I repeat comments.
Are people suggesting that after someone gets divorced and remarried that they should divorce again? That sounds silly to me, although I used to wonder those things myself. In a perfect Christian world, people are saved before they get married and then stay married. There are many variations of what can happen in a life time. Whatever condition we get ourselves into, we need to agree with God that we fall short of His glory, thank Him for forgiveness, and follow Him. Praise God for forgiveness, and that He can make things right after we mess up.
---Rod on 1/31/09


Now listen and listen well... Can he/she go and murder again, can the other go sin and remain in sin again, again you answer?
carla

To answer this question.
Well Paul says its not good to continue to do certain things, but if it is difficult for us, we have an advocate with the Father named Jesus Christ that will help and pray and ask God to forgive even as we ask. We can't help ourselves, He has to help us.

That advocate, Jesus Christ, also said to Peter when asked how many times should we forgive our brother or sister of their sin, Jesus clearly and LOVINGLY said "Forgive 70 x 7".

God bless sister
---miche3754 on 1/31/09


Now listen and listen well... Can he/she go and murder again, can the other go sin and remain in sin again, again you answer?


If God says you are forgiven of remarriage, then you are. Period. You don't have to divorce again to be forgiven. You can't earn salvation by your actions. It is only through Grace.
Sister, acting self righteous and passing judgment- Doing GOD"S JOB FOR HIM, will certainly NOT get you into heaven.

If King David can be an adulterer, and a murderer and still be forgiven his sinful marriage to Bathsheba, then so can I.

You would be wise to learn temperance, one of the fruits of the Spirit.
~God bless you sis~
---miche3754 on 1/31/09




Miche,

I am so glad you bought the matter up about one being a murder not that it will make sense to your debate least ways..

A murderer kills and get's saved he asks for forgiveness, a sinner, a Adulterer the same....

Now listen and listen well... Can he/she go and murder again, can the other go sin and remain in sin again, again you answer?

You posted the alternative!
---Carla3939 on 1/31/09


carla sister,
Jesus taught on marriage as a metaphor for how our relation ship with God is suppose to be.

Sister why are you so hard hearted? I am asking because you type like you are (not judging or anything)

Don't you tell people that are murderers, and such that God can forgive them?
Why can't God wash the sins of a divorcee away making them clean and able to marry again?
How can you say God doesn't do this? His word says so in both OT and NT.
All you have to have is a sincere, repentant heart. Once that sin is forgiven, why bring it back up? That person is washed By Jesus.
Jesus saves, sister.
---miche3754 on 1/30/09


This can be veiwed as the false teaching blog since all that is been taught here is how not to obey the teaching of Christ.

If you don't understand who committs Adultery ask God for wisdom and he will in no wise hep ya'll out!

But his word has no hidden connotations concerning marriage/re-marriage or you would need a degree to get married.
The Messiah taught on marriage and just because ya'll want ur own way ya'll put isims and scisims about wearing of heardress, pharressies and scribes, sweapin door corners, hep me lawd! where scripture as plain as day a man is not on equal par to a woman concerning marriage Period.

Good day and God bless

Pray for wisdom!
---Carla5754 on 1/30/09


"Carla - The problems with your position is a sermon preached or an Biblical exposition by either gender is really no difference as such merely reflects the same training given to either gender."- lee 1/26/09
Amen brother!!
"tares can look very much like wheat everything has to viewed through the written word."-Carla3939 1/26/09
Yes sister, but how do you know who is wheat and who is tares? Satan himsalf knows the Word of God better than you do, and when he chooses, he can tranform into an angel of light.
Again, judge not least ye be judge
Remove the plank from your own eye so you can remove the speak for sister or brother's.
It's Not anyone's call but God's!
---miche3754 on 1/28/09


Carla - The problems with your position is a sermon preached or an Biblical exposition by either gender is really no difference as such merely reflects the same training given to either gender.

Also if you were to look at the duties which either gender carrys out as a pastor, again there is no difference.

As you do not wear a covering over your head when you pray, are you being disobedient? I think not, as some of those church governoring policies merely reflected the status of women during those times.

In any case follow your conviction but I really believe your position has less defense than mine.
---lee1538 on 1/26/09


Thank you Lee,

for your advice your opinion BUT I choose the word since the church today is in such a state you don't quite know if it is the tares that is speaking or the wheat, unless you hold a Holy Bible in your hands and measure the advice, tares can look very much like wheat everything has to viewed through the written word.
---Carla3939 on 1/26/09


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I suspect that the underlying reason so many would insist that there can be no re-marriage after a divorce is because they themselves have a very deep fear that such a thing could happen to them.

There are really no guarantees that any marriage will last. I even had a Baptist missionary friend find himself in a divorce court. He re-married and lived happily ever after.
---lee1538 on 1/24/09


MIC - *He Clearly stated im Matt,19:8-9."from the beginning it was not so."This is the NT and we live by these rulesas Jesus said I came not to change the law but Fulfill it"...

Don't you long for those good olde days when the church had the power to decide these issues instead of what scripture has to say?

Church history is full of cases where the church decided that one was not truly married in the first place despite years of living together and children. A classic case is olde Henry VIII who if the Roman Church did not have French troops in their backyard, would have gladly granted him a divorce as he did not have a male hier. Such would have prevented England from leaving the one true church.
---lee1538 on 1/24/09


Is it not strange that people are so obsessed about the laws of Adultery and marriage, remarriage, which was instituted in Genesis2:18 & 24-25If god loves every one equally why the woul he institute on rule for Manand one for woman when He Clearly stated im Matt,19:8-9."from the beginning it was not so."This is the NT and we live by these rulesas Jesus said I came not to change the law but Fulfill it"The sins of the flesh are mans ruination and satan trades on this to our detriment.The violation of this law is like stealing from Him,because it denies HIS edict for which it was intended"what God hath Loined let no man put asunder".
---MIC on 1/23/09


Trav ???

God married and divorced?
God widowed so He could remarry His former wife?

That means that God as a divorced man must have married a second wife, in order to becomem a widower.

But you say He did not marry another.

Where in the Bible does it refer to God being married?
---alan8566_of_UK on 1/24/09


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"I liken your position to a person who believes that she can drive any way she pleases because...innocent man allowed to marry again.
innocent woman is not.
---alan8566_of_UK on 1/21/09

Alan, just reading your blog posts this one stood out....cause I see the logic.

This was answered for me by GOD's marriage.
God was first. GOD created man. Perogative to do whatever he wants. Including choose a new wife, or same wife.
Adam was first. Woman came out of Adam.

GOD is a divorcee himself. He perfectly did/will not/ has not married another. (Many,not seeing yet, think otherwise)(We men do...hardness of hearts). He widowed to remarry the former virgin wife. Witnessed in scriptures.
---Trav on 1/23/09


Janet:-Your way is as a human you are preguessing God.God did prescribe a certain way for the forgivness of sins in "My Church"matt16:13-19.God sets the rules Yes He forgives sins,even those which are repetetive.I was not judging the action of another but by reason in a generalised manner which some would call a certain scenario.You make it personal by your declaration,not my intention.Grevious repetitive sins is what I was talking about, that a person has the power by self control to excerise.Sins with unclean thoughts as you say,in continued indulgence.
---MIC on 1/22/09


Mic
It isn't for anyone here to say whether a repeated/conscience sin is forgiven or not. I have committed the same sin and I believe that I am forgiven. I continually try to do better but a gossip, an unclean thought, gluttony-minutae that doesn't necessarily hit the list of the 10 commandments are still sins. By the ratianale that once you commit that sin and ask forgiveness and you sin again in the same manner, your plea for forgiveness is not as genuine and you are only hoping for forgiveness is judging the actions of another. God knows if you are earnest and honestly his opinion is the only one that matters.
---janet5539 on 1/22/09


Janet :-A sin forgiven in the prescribed manner by God is truly forgiven if there is perfect contrition with the desire NOT to reoffend. If you reoffend would you then be really sorry?Only God knows our thoughts and actions.Christians believe that merely confessing to the atmosphere Hoping God hears they are forgiventheir sins - is that contrition.Hence the saying "this above all to thine own self be true"In view of what I say, Do you believe His/her sins are forgiven.?
---Mic on 1/22/09


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I would like a show of hands so to speak before I continue on with this blog and site.

When a christian sins (all sins bar 1 are equal), he knows he has sinned and fallen short, he asks forgiveness, repents, and re-dedicates his life to Christ. Working deligently to live a Christ-like life. Do you believe that his sins are washed away or do you believe that he is still held accountable for those sins on judgement day because he back slid?
---janet5539 on 1/22/09


God loves all humanity without exception.But He has issued rules from the Father,which are unbreakable.At the same time He gives us CHOICES.The condemnation for this choice is clear and will be enacted at the Judgement seat.What transpires between then and Now depends on a true and contrite repentance.Man has no authority to judge or condem.Only God knows whether the contrition is true or False.If you let your desire over rule your conscience, and his word ,The person responsible WILL render an account. Man/Woman has no jurisdiction in this matter.
---Mic on 1/22/09


Please tell me how this makes sense...

Many of you don't agree with Jesus' teaching on adultery from the sermon on the mount. So you use Jesus' rebuke of the Pharisees as an argument against Jesus' own teaching. Effectively trying to argue that Jesus denounced Himself.

Then there is the inevitable relativism argument. "Well, adultery is better than the sin of burning with desire."

Using that line of reasoning, if you have no money, it would be better to steal some from somebody rather than turn to the sin of prostitution. But I suppose it would be wrong to point out that stealing is a sin because that is part of the law and only Pharisees care about the law.
---ralph7477 on 1/22/09


Lee:
An excellent point, and eloquently put!
I do believe that those quoting scriptures against re-marriage are doing so lovingly, to direct away from sin. However, we would all do well to remember that we aren't judges, and just as well - God is wiser than any of us.
---Graham on 1/22/09


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I have read all the blogs and scriptures placed here. I believe that the most important thing is not being taken into account and that is God forgives. I am a divorced woman. My husband committed adultery I believe that it is best to stay single but marriage is preferred over living with the sin of desire and longing. God forgives us for being weak in the flesh. Is it better to burn with desire and wantoness or to marry into a christian relationship praising and serving God? Thanking him for what he has done and continues to do for us.
It is not my place to judge someone or their actions a sinner. The scripture tells us that we will fall short (not that we may but that we will) and it is only by his glory that we are held up.
---janet5534 on 1/22/09


lee1538,
Excellent advice and worthy of all consideration.
---Nana on 1/21/09


Mt 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

Those that tell you 'well that is too bad for you if you find yourself divorced but scripture tells us the following...blab blab blab.'

But like the Pharisees and other hypocrites, they uphold the law to the point that justice, mercy & faithfulness are ignored.

Instead of rehabilitating one that has suffered, they advocate killing their wounded by showing partiality.

Jas 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
---lee1538 on 1/21/09


ralph, not blowing a gasket. I am not a car.

Just stating a fact that I have seen posted many times on this site.
If a woman does not agree she is labelled wrong, a jezebel and many other things.
Just because I "see" more in what Jesus was speaking of in these verses and disagree with you and others, does not give you the right to insult me. You must take ALL scripture into account not just the ones about marriage. Trav has said many times scripture witnesses scripture. And it does.
If you don't see where Jesus gave certain permissions, because He knows the condition of the Human heart, brother, that is not my issue but yours. God bless you!
---miche3754 on 1/21/09


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"I liken your position to a person who believes that she can drive any way she pleases because she obtains a drivers license. A drivers license affords a tremendous amount of freedom. You can get into a car and drive to and from wherever you like. The only requirement is that you must follow the rules and laws of the road. You may not drive as fast as you like, or run stop signs, or drive backwards. Those actions come with consequences"

But of course whilst the woman is not allowed to do this, men are!!

The innocent man is allowed to marry again.

The innocent woman is not.

Cont ... if Mod allows) ...
---alan8566_of_UK on 1/21/09


I wonder if Jesus answered as He did becaiuse the questiuoner specifically asked if a man could marry again.

Maybe the questioner was like many men today, who considered only his own position, not concerned about the woman.

It was not the practice then for women to be able to put their men away, even if they were serial adulters, so the question of whether a woman who did this was allowed to remarry would not arise.

As in the issue of women in ministry, maybe Jesus whne He said "man" He was talking about the spouse of either gender.
---alan8566_of_UK on 1/21/09


miche, let me clarify a few things before you blow a gasket. It matters not to me that you follow what I say. All I have done is to point out what Jesus has said. Whether you follow His teachings or not is up to you.

I liken your position to a person who believes that she can drive any way she pleases because she obtains a drivers license. A drivers license affords a tremendous amount of freedom. You can get into a car and drive to and from wherever you like. The only requirement is that you must follow the rules and laws of the road. You may not drive as fast as you like, or run stop signs, or drive backwards. Those actions come with consequences.

You simply want the license but don't want to be constrained by the limits.
---ralph7477 on 1/21/09


miche,

It is a subject that until I read the word I believed that the innocent party should have the opportunity to re-marry.

until the I turned into His( Gods will.

Ralph, Trav are individuals that have their opinion based of the scriptures they have read without bias and unlike the situation you are in without the conviction of re-marriage.

So read what it is saying rather than reading what you want it to read.
---Carla3939 on 1/21/09


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As to divorce & re-marriage, there are circumstances that are all too often beyond ones control.

For instance, what does one do if the wife takes off with some dolt she mets in a mental institution and leaves you with 2 pre-school age kids to raise by yourself?

And what if your job requires travel?

The children certainly need a mother.

So what do you do?

Do you simply accept Carla's iron hand interpretation of Scripture and let the victim bear the consequences or do you do the practical thing and re-marry?

That is one good reason why I believe the church should decide these issues as each case can be different and no one rule fits all situations.



---lee1538 on 1/21/09


Excuse me?
I'm NOT the 1 passing judgment, some take scripture OUT of context.

Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Some have missed this.

You really think Jesus gave a command that goes DIRECTLY AGAINST his 2nd command? NO, maybe you're reading wrong.

Love GOD 1st, Love neighbor as self.
Judge not or you will be judged.

You are all upset cause I don't agree with you.
I follow Jesus Not you.
Your insults don't matter, the TRUTH MATTERS! Look at context of verse and compare ALL scripture w/scripture.
God bless you!
---miche3754 on 1/21/09


ralph,trav, like carla
Because she agrees with you.
So you only love those who agree with your views.
You believe people aren't forgiven and can't get married again.
Carla preaches/teaches on this site but says she isn't because she isn't in a church building, What a laugh.
Trav doesn't even know if he is going to heaven or not.
But you want us to follow and listen to what you say.
You use scripture to insult and hurt.
When we are suppose to use it to edify and show love.
You judge,call yourselves Christians- HA you hypocrites just like the Pharisees. be surprised and know God IS merciful if I see you 3 in Heaven.
God Bless you!
---miche3754 on 1/21/09


First things first. Graham. Where is Christ in your life? Is He first? Were you following Christ when your wife left for a divorce? The Bible says to let the unbeliever leave, but to remain single.

Have you repented of any of the wrongs that you did to her? Have you asked her to forgive you? I look at an interpersonal conflict situation that each person is 100% responsible for their percent of wrongs. That means if the partner is 90% wrong, and the other is 10% wrong, they are still 100% wrong for their 10%.

First things first. Where is Christ in your life? Maybe He wants more of your attention.
---Rod on 1/21/09


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Ralph: I am no longer going to engage in discussion with you, because as mature and intelligent as you would like to come across, you are too insulting and get too personal with me, and I find that totally not in keeping with a supposed brother in the Lord.
---Trish9863 on 1/20/09


Trish,
It may not be as cut high and dry like you ask but scripture in many cases can unlock scripture.


Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Mat 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?


Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
---Carla3939 on 1/20/09


Trish, I've addressed this maybe half a dozen times by now. Come on now. You are supposed to have a college education. The subject of the passage is a man who "puts away" a wife for reasons other than infidelity. The direct object is the wife whom he has put away. We know this by removing the prepositional phrase "saving for the cause of fornication".

But if you need more, try Luke 16:18..."Whosoever puts away his wife and marries another commits adultery, and whosoever marries her that is put away from her husband commits adultery." No mention of a cheating spouse.

Mark 10:11-12 also addresses the same subject.
---ralph7477 on 1/20/09


God is order. The innocent man through Christ matt19:9 ( because of his hurt has the ability to take on another wife if she commits fornication he himself cannot committ any offence or he cause both himself and wife to commit adultery if he marries for any other reason other than For fornication.



Israel/Judah (worshiped false Gods)committed Adultery So God divorced and married us Gentiles (grafting us in to the true vine) Marriage supper......But will take back Israel.

Gentiles(wife) cannot (marry again) take on another Husband( worship another God) woman is to remain single(not engage in false worship) not to re-marry it is personified as another marriage.
because God is your husband(spiritually)
---Carla3939 on 1/20/09


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I still ask the same question that nobody wishes to address.

In Matthew, the verse where it says whoever marries the divorced woman commits adultery. That verse is specifically referring to the woman WHO WAS DUMPED BY HER HUSBAND for cheating on him.

Can anyone support, with scripture, that that particular verse supports the idea that for ANY divorced woman to remarry is committing adulter.
---Trish9863 on 1/20/09


miche3754, I would like to point out to you that, according to the Bible, bearing false witness, stealing, and murder are sins and you shouldn't do any of those things.

You probably agree with me, yes? You probably have no plans on doing any of those things, right?

All I am doing is adding adultery to the list. The Bible also states that adultery is a sin and you shouldn't engage in it. Jesus said that a man marrying a divorced woman commits adultery.

The only difference is that this is an activity that you want to engage in, which is why this particular sin becomes so hard for you to accept and the others aren't.
---ralph7477 on 1/20/09


The whole marriage issue is found addressed by our GOD. His standard we TRY to follow, right? One last Posting on this subject.
GOD was married. Jer 3:14
GOD was Divorced: a bill of divorce, Jeremiah 3:7-9
GOD WILL REMARRY: Isaiah 62:4
Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken, neither ...be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
Isaiah 62:3-5
Hosea 1:11, 1:23
A widow, or a divorced woman, or profane, or an harlot, these shall he not take: but he shall take a virgin of his own people to wife.
Leviticus 21:13-15
SEE HEB 8:8, JER 31:31. NEW COVENANT. VIRGINIZED/BRIDEGROOM ETC>
We break ...GOD Doesn't. Thank GOD.
---Trav on 1/20/09


TRISH,

PLEASE ACCEPT MY DEEPEST OF APOLOGIES I have been addressing you when it is Miche that was behaving so badly, I had to re-read the posts again because I just could not believe you were all of a sudden behaving so badly.....

When all you ever did was ask a question but suddenly all I read was abuse.


I just hope and pray that in all this my sister Miche that you can understand that all the wrong in the world cannot be fought with name calling and abuse, bless rather than curse.

You think I do not understand but you are SO wrong, sometimes my responses are edited and that's perhaps why.
---Carla3939 on 1/20/09


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Mische:- I thought You agreed with me but I see the desire in you is overwhelming.You will yet talk yourself out of Salvation dear Girl.I guess the old saying is true"a person convinced against His/her will is of the same opinion still".The laws Jesus abolished were superficial The ones by the Father are unchangeable.Keeping the law earns you Grace.Go in peace Mische to learn love and serve the Lord.
---Mic on 1/20/09


Trish,

I'm sorry that you are resorting to name calling which show's up your very reason for accusing me of being hypocritical and a pharisee, take note the pharisee's agree with divorce so your name calling was just to insult me. The love you suggest I am void of suddenly falls on your own words, If I am wrong please show in scripture where this so instead of the name calling.

Good day and God bless,

it is obvious your anger is spiraling out of control. One has the right to righty divide the word of truth, if the truth offends it is wisdom not to pursue the matter any further.

If all truth were to be known there would be not peace,

Shalom.
---Carla3939 on 1/20/09


miche3754, after reading the viewpoints of you and other women, Carla being a welcome exception, I can fully understand why Paul did not want women in positions of leadership in the church. You all are so caught up in the idea that you want what you want when you want it and nobody, even Jesus himself, can tell you otherwise.
....---ralph7477 on 1/20/09

Your dealing with a spirit like the wind. The wind won't stop or listen. It knows not where it came from nor where it is going. Provide a scripture and it deflects in a different direction.
The scripture is witnessed,made applicable and possible through the wacky interpretations you mentioned.
Give us help from trouble: for vain is the help of man.
Psalm 108:11-13
---Trav on 1/20/09


Its actually "Christians" like you that are harsh,like the Pharisees that Jesus was condemning for being judgmental.
I follow the two commands Jesus gave.
We shouldn't sin so that grace abounds
But a person should be allowed to get remarried to prevent further sin (fornication). This is what Paul is stating. AND I AGREE.
I'm not speaking of wackiness as you call it ralph. I'm speaking of the love and Grace Jesus gives us.
Carla is speaking when she shouldn't because she believes that a woman shouldn't teach. She is confused and believes the church is a building when Its THE PEOPLE that are Christians that are the Church. So, maybe you need you check yourself too, brother.
---miche3754 on 1/20/09


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continue,

She takes and accepts the commands that fit what she wants. You can't be that way. Jesus says if you put yourself under the law(as she and you have) then you must follow ALL of the Law. If you break one, then you break ALL of it.BUT neither of you do this nor understand this. You can't be under grace and the Law at the same time.
The Law condemns(what you and others like you do).
Grace forgives. There are some Christians that don't get it right the first time. But God forgives them and Gives them another chance. It is not your say so if they get the chance or not. IT IS GOD'S!!!!!
---miche3754 on 1/20/09


miche3754, after reading the viewpoints of you and other women, Carla being a welcome exception, I can fully understand why Paul did not want women in positions of leadership in the church. You all are so caught up in the idea that you want what you want when you want it and nobody, even Jesus himself, can tell you otherwise.

As a result, all these wacky, esoteric interpretations of plain, clear scripture are put forth so that you can justify your desires. You use the words Love and Grace. Should we sin so that Grace may abound? God forbid. Does showing Love toward somebody involve encouraging them to sin and shun the teachings of Christ?
The correct answer would be no.
---ralph7477 on 1/20/09


Carla,
Yes< Jesus was correcting that LAW. But of course you don't see that Jesus was addressing the ones under the Law.

You constantly put yourself back under law. When we are in Jesus, we are not under Law, We are under Grace. And Grace says that those who have been divorced can remarry because their sins have been forgiven, washed away.

But you don't understand. You still think a building is the Church- Body of Christ.
How can I expect someone who doesn't understand that they the Church.
And what we do here is the gathering of the Church, the Body of Christ.
You are teaching and preaching in the presence of men and you don't even realize it.
---miche3754 on 1/20/09


Carla: Scripture still has not addressed this woman's status, only the status of the woman who is left because of adultery.

Then there is the whole issue of the case where the woman is left with children, and in need of financial support. In most churches she is shunned, condemned to singleness, and unable to financially provide for herself and her children. The stigma against divorced women in the modern church is unbelievable. Yet, it appears, that you, and others here, condone the remarriage of the errant husband who leaves for no cause at all.

This seems totally in contradiction from what I have studied about the care of women and children throughout scriptures.
---Trish9863 on 1/19/09


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Trish,

Mark 10:4

Moses wrote what he did in Deut simply because he wanted peace but not because God said Divorce could be annulled for every reason.

So Christ corrected his mistake in Matt 19:9
---Carla3939 on 1/19/09


Trish,

What you fail to understand is we are not promised a husband a happy family and wealth and the whole world, Were promised if we live according to Gods will Eternal Life.

God deserves all the praise and all the worship and as Job said thou he slay me yet will I trust him. ( I'm uncertain of the exact words) it takes sacrifice to the hIGHEST level to know how Job could say such a thing and without the same blessing HE GOT AFTER HIS TROUBLES it take faith to agree!
---Carla3939 on 1/19/09


carla I wasn't speaking of that scripture and Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. He was condemning them. By using that as your argument, you directly disobey one of Jesus' greatest commands. Love your neighbor as yourself.
You don't like reproof yourself as it is seen here.
Remove the beam out of your own eye. You without sin cast the first stone!
You go ahead and CONDEMN!!
The only person in the end who will be judged for that is yourself.
God forgives even if you don't.
You obviously take scripture literally but refuse to follow it.
You believe you are to keep silent and not teach. Please stop teaching and causing yourself to sin. If you hold ALL scripture to literal translation then you should really check yourself.
---miche3754 on 1/19/09


Ralph ... To use your words (lest you think I am being rude to you) "Frankly I could not care about" your opinion. My original comments were not addressed to you.
---alan8566_of_UK on 1/19/09


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Mic ... I don't think what I have said conflicts with your comments. I don't approve of the man feeling lucky, and in the long run, but maybe not in this world, he will regret hisw good fortune!

You say "God does not discriminate between His children M/woman & like I said, whats good for the goose is good for the Gander.shows there is NO discrimination"

Exactly so, but to judge from some comments here, there are those who do use their interpretations in very man-favouring way.
---alan8566_of_UK on 1/19/09


Carla: Using your translation, the verse uses the word "her" to refer to the woman whose husband left her for fornication. Scripture does not address the woman whose husband just leaves her, when she has not committed adultery.
---Trish9863 on 1/19/09


---miche3754 on 1/19/09

carla,
do you realize that the scripture you posted condemns what you have said against remarriage?

Mat 19:9

And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.


Trish what does it read in your translation?
---Carla3939 on 1/19/09


Carla: Using your context, as you shared with Alan, I must ask, how does that apply to the woman who did not commit adultery, yet her husband left her and remarried. I did not commit adultery, yet my husband divorced me and went on to remarry. How does the prohibition toward remarriage apply given those circumstances, especially in the light of Deuteronomy saying that my now remarried husband and I cannot remarry each other again?
---Trish9863 on 1/19/09


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ralph, not rejecting what Jesus says about anything.
Just rejecting how you are interpreting it.

God divorced Israel. But God hates divorce.
I have seen trav put it best.

So, Possible we are talking it in the wrong context.
Jesus is addressing the people God divorced.
Not the ones He is marrying.
May be a possible parable for what Jesus is going to do on the Cross.
I say this because He would not contridict himself.
Jesus plainly says to Love first. Are you, or are you condemning? Do you have the mark of A Christians?
---miche3754 on 1/19/09


Alan of UK, frankly I couldn't care if an adulterer/abuser felt lucky or not. What do his feelings have to do with anything?

Secondly, I am not the one interpreting clear, plain scripture. The interpreters are the ones who claim that wife does not mean wife. Husband does not refer to a man. Jesus really didn't mean what he said. That's interpretation.

Jesus plainly stated "whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery". As a Christian, do you believe the words of Jesus?

Jesus also stated, "He who loves me not, keeps not my sayings." So how 'bout it Alan, Trish and whoever else. A show of hands. Who claims to love Christ while rejecting what he said?
---ralph7477 on 1/19/09


The only permittance is towards the husband because his wife commits Fornication. The alternative according to scripture (NOT MY WORDS) Gods word the wife should remain unmarried or reconcile. The protection being unmarried is for the wife to remain with God because her (head) of the home has gone Christ then becomes her (head).

Now the man of God if unable to forgive will not commit Adultery if he
marries another having divorced his wife for Fornication.

The union of the bond then returns God/Christ Man/Woman.
God/ Christ/ Woman
No other union is sanctioned.
---Carla3939 on 1/19/09

Carla, does the above, apply to GOD's marriage??
---Trav on 1/19/09


carla,
do you realize that the scripture you posted condemns what you have said against remarriage?

Do you follow these scripture yourself? Are you following them now? It does not seem like it.

Remove the beam from your own eye sister.
To believe that God condmens the innocent is blasphemy.
God says vengeance is his, not yours.
If a fellow Christian has FAITH and has repented, they can get married again.
There are only a few scripture condmening this. But MANY on forgivenes love and turning the other cheek. Perhaps God means for us to LOVE and not condemn?
---miche3754 on 1/19/09


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Alan of uk,

Matt 19:9

The only permittance is towards the husband because his wife commits Fornication. The alternative according to scripture (NOT MY WORDS) Gods word the wife should remain unmarried or reconcile. The protection being unmarried is for the wife to remain with God because her (head) of the home has gone Christ then becomes her (head).


Now the man of God if unable to forgive will not commit Adultery if he
marries another having divorced his wife for Fornication.

The union of the bond then returns God/Christ Man/Woman.
God/ Christ/ Woman
No other union is sanctioned.
---Carla3939 on 1/19/09


Alan of Uk:-God does not discriminate between His children M/woman & like I said, whats good for the goose is good for the Gander.shows there is NO discrimination.1 Cor.1:17Some verses define invalid marriages, different from a Valid Marriage.The 2 in one flesh describes a valid Marriage,and as it says "What God hath joined let no one put asunder."speaks volumes.We forget the main purpose of Marriage is to produce for the greater glory of God It is not for our carnal desires.It's time and Satan's ingrained ideology with man's assistance has made it so.Matt19.8. says"it was not so from the beginning.Man who is in most cases the perpetrator is NOT LUCKY But RESPONSIBLE for not managing His own ship and shift like ADAM.
---Mic on 1/19/09


Ralph

Not silly or ridiculous.

It's a question of whose perspective it is. Certainly I would not consider myself lucky if I was that man, and obviously you would not.

But I bet the adulterer etc would feel lucky if he was able to marry again (and your biblical interpretation would allow remarriage for him, but not for his victim wife)

I know a lady in this exact position ... her husband abused their daughters, and was supported by his church in remarrying while she was thrown out of the church.

All according to the Bible of course
---alan8566_of_UK on 1/19/09


Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine, I will repay, saith the Lord.

Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him, if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
---Carla3939 on 1/19/09


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carla,
using a "freedom "scripture to put back in bondage.

According to you/others, remarriage is sin.
if it's sin then it can be forgiven . The person is made a new creature. Might want to try looking at commands Jesus gave.

Asked what the greatest was, Jesus said love God, then love your neighbor.
Putting back under mosaic law isn't Love.
I would rather go to heaven for Loving my fellow man. Jesus was demonstrating the hypocrisy of the Pharisee. Maybe want to look in the mirror?
Jesus, "GREATEST OF THESE IS LOVE". Do you have it or condemnation that you speak here? claiming you know what Jesus meant or you would follow the greater command. Love No more condemnation in Christ.
---miche3754 on 1/19/09


Suzie,

2Cr 5:17
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new.

nowhere does this verse of scripture say re-marriage.

New life in Christ is what it says your sins have been nailed to the cross(so to speak) meaning you will no longer be called into question about that matter.


People would rather risk Adultery than sacrifice flesh, I would choose sacrifice
since it is better than ill gain.

What is a mans advantage if he gains the whole wide world and then losses his soul?


When a Sargent says Repent the whole army of men change and go in a completely opposite direction is that not so?

---Carla3939 on 1/19/09


Trish, Paul also asked if we should sin so that Grace may abound. He answered himself, "God Forbid". You say you don't buy into my interpretation of scripture. Frankly, this discussion demonstrates that you don't buy into scripture period. I haven't interpreted anything. I've given you pure scripture. You have yet to show any verse that contradicts anything I've written.

Alan of UK, only a silly person would categorize a adulterer and an abuser of women and children as a "lucky man". Ridiculous.
---ralph7477 on 1/19/09


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