The "similtude" spoken of here---is made "not after the law of a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life" Heb.7vs 15 and 16... It is good for believers to search the scriptures and I do realise that this question is rarely tackled..its an eschatolgical problem but very relevant to a modern church with pre-concieved mis-conceptions. |
|
---richard on 11/20/09 |
My thinking on the subject:we know Abraham offered Isaac in faith and God in the fullness of time sent Jesus to be the true sacrificial Lamb.What if Abraham gave his "tithe" in faith too,to open a door of blessing (for God to repay)at a future time and could all this be relevant to Israel once the church has been raptured. |
|
---richard on 11/20/09 |
JackB, thanks! I appreciate that. May the Lord bless you. |
|
---trey on 11/19/09 |
What Trey said /thumbs up |
|
---JackB on 11/19/09 |
Rhonda,
Your posts are right on. I read a bunch of them!
Nice thoughts! |
|
---Pastor_JIm on 11/18/09 |
Yes Christ was Melchizedek
Christ is Spirit and in the likeness of Melchizedek who was a physical and SEEN by the Patriarchs
Today Christ is NOT SEEN but still serves as High Priest AFTER Melchizedek
understanding Melchizedek had no beginning of days
If Melchizedek were ANOTHER divine being then Gods Word LIED when we were told IN THE BEGINNING was God and the Word
otherwise Melchizedek with NO BEGINNING of Days would ALSO be mentioned in John 1,2,14 |
|
---Rhonda on 11/18/09 |
The correct answer is NO.
Heb7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
The key word is similitude:
1. condition of being similar: likeness or resemblance ( formal )
2. somebody or something resembling another: somebody or something that is like somebody or something else
3. shared characteristic: a quality or feature shared by two or more people or things ( formal )
4. form or semblance: a form or semblance of somebody or something ( formal or literary )
He resembled Christ. He was a type and shadow. King David in many ways resembled Christ. Joseph, the son of Jacob is another. |
|
---trey on 11/18/09 |
Abraham pointedly stated to the King of Sodom that he would take not "a thread or sandal strap"(sandals were exchanged in "covenant" deals)In rev.7 144,000 are "sealed" rev.14 they appear in heaven and are called "firstfruits to God and to the Lamb" WOW!...Jesus preincarnate on His fathers buisiness to deliver the future remnant.Hope this points up this mystery the church has lost.(Paul knew). |
|
---richard on 11/11/09 |
Read These Insightful Articles About Printing
|
no he did not tell abraham to take off his sandels. |
|
---rajesh on 11/8/09 |
Who was the fourth man in the fiery furnace that the form of the fourth is like the Son of God? (Daniel 3:25)
Besides, why squabble over something that cannot be proven by man and only in three verses. The posts on this blog are merely speculation about who Melchizedek was/is. This debate has no bearing upon the two commandments spoken of by Jesus to do. There is not a third commandment that says to debate everything that cannot be won. Instead of debating, christians should be out feeding the poor, giving drink to the thirsty, and populating the Kingdom of God - none of which is being done debating. A terrible waste of energy and time. |
|
---Steveng on 11/8/09 |
GOOD POST!
Yes, he was! It was not Christology (a fore-image of Christ) it was an actual appearance of Christ.
Christ appeared in the Old Testament as well as the new. It was priesthood reserved for the Christ. Unblemished since the Priesthood of Aaron was blemished and replaced by the Hasmodean the sons of Cain/Esau. It was Cain and Esau that condemn our Messiah
Read Hebrews/PS110 on this. Also Jesus confirms it in his passage Before Abraham I Am. One of the greatest and most mystery passages in the NT.
This is a great sermon and teaching, but I have only 125 words. So read the Book. |
|
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/8/09 |
I believe that Melchezedek was the 1st son of Noah and that he was ordained to the priesthood by Enoch's son Methuzaleh. This would make sense in a patriarchal society. Enoch was the 7th prophet from Adam and was the last to be ordained by him. Enoch walked with God and ascended into Heaven. His son Methuzaleh, as the oldest man in the Bible, lived until right before the great flood. As the oldest elder in a patriarchal society it would have been he who ordained Shem. Shem lived a considerably long life as well and would have been the oldest living elder at the time of Abraham. |
|
---daniel on 11/8/09 |
There are two types of priests. Those who do the Temple duties (Levitical) and those who are priests to those around them. The latter I believe is the Melchizedekian line. You are familiar with this:
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Amazingly, this was not a NEW thing. All of Israel was asked to be the same at Sinai:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.
---Ken_Rank on 8/7/09
Good pointing Ken. |
|
---Trav on 9/14/09 |
We pay too much attention to what these persons were and miss the mark. The birth of Christ as written in Isaiah was a sign given by God but we are the main event. Now consider this - Melchizedek was without father & mother, Jesus had a mother but no earthly father. The one to come (He who overcomes as written in Revelation 2 & 3) would he have earthly father and mother? It is only when this is fulfilled that the dominion which Adam lost shall have been recovered to man as written in Genesis 49:10. As Jesus asked - when the Son of cometh shall he find faith on the earth? THINK ON THIS and remember 'All things are possible to him that believes. |
|
---Akuro on 9/11/09 |
Moses a statement.David a messianic psalm.Jesus silence. Paul a mystery in plain text.All a progressive revelation in scripture that concerns "the mystery of Israels blindness".God will reveal,and command deliverance for Jacob.If Melchisidek were a man,then Jesus by definition was his disciple?No!..He was there for Israels future sake. |
|
---richard on 8/26/09 |
2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. |
|
---exzucuh on 8/23/09 |
"After the order of Melchizedek" or simply Jesus suceeded Melchizedek in God's ministry to the human race as both were at one time human in form and both are presently sons of God. |
|
---earl on 8/22/09 |
There are many OT or Tanach figures who are types of Messiah. (He being the shadow or anti-type) Joseph who was born of a woman who was barren, who suffered and ultimately was able to bring life to his family. Another is Melchesidek, who was a High Priest, a King, a receiver of tithes... he was another type of Messiah. This is why Mel is used in Hebrews to show the ministry of the priesthood our Messiah now operates on our behalf from.
Peace.
Ken |
|
---Ken_Rank on 8/20/09 |
Hebrews 7 clearly state he was a MAN....
Therefore it was not Jesus Christ, as Jesus became a man only once...through the birth of the Virgin Mary.
These verses are using this as a TYPE. OT is steeped with Typology!
Also Zechariah 6 will say more. Jesus as Priest and KING will be fully realized at the millennial Kingdom Reign. Psalms 110 also is referring to the millennial Kingdom reign! Again, something that can be found in Genesis 3:15, when Genesis 3:15 is also fully realized.
KING of PEACE/Righteousness....these are promised at the 1000 year reign of Christ! |
|
---kathr4453 on 8/15/09 |
Jesus became a high priest, not because he was a descendant of Aaron, but because he was a descendant of David and a legitimate successor of the legacy left by David when he became king of Jerusalem. Kings came only from the tribe of Judah.
The author of Hebrews is emphasizing that Jesus become a priest, not according to a legal requirement concerning bodily descent (Hebrews 7:16-17), but because of the promise made to David that he and his descendants would become priests forever after the order of Melchizedek ***(Psalm 110:4).
To say that Melchizedek was in fact Jesus in some form does not understand the text.
Salem was in fact ancient Jerusalem. You need to studying OT to grasp what the author of Hebrews is saying. |
|
---kathr4453 on 8/15/09 |
Kathr,From my source the biblical Melchizedek in question does not have a human blood line. |
|
---earl on 8/14/09 |
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, , but made like unto the Son of God, abideth a priest continually.
Without father, without mother, without descent means that his parents are (A) not mentions (b) was of no great reputation.
having neither beginning of days, nor end of life means that the biblical record and scroll do never recorded the start or end of his life, and priesthood
He was human a priest like Job, and like abraham |
|
---francis on 8/14/09 |
"You cannot prove he was Jesus and you cannot disprove it so, you are wasting your words." (Exzucuh)
You are right. We can not prove or disprove that Melchizedek was a Theophany, a pre-incarnate appearance of the Son of God. However, many believe so, and thus I leave it as a possible occurrence. I simply do not say "No" as if Holy Scriptures teach that Melchizedek is not a Theophany. If He was not a pre-incarnate appearance of the Son of God, then at the very least he is a type of Christ. Saint Paul make this clear in Hebrews.
In IC.XC, |
|
---Ignatius on 8/14/09 |
It is very foolish to teach people about something you know nothing about, the Bible says Melchizedek was not born and did not die
and Abraham paid ties to him and that Jesus was made priest after this order, meaning he is not a priest under Judaism but a new Covenant. You cannot prove he was Jesus and you cannot disprove it so, you are wasting your words. |
|
---exzucuh on 8/14/09 |
A Melchizedek is a title of an order of created beings and is a son of the creator Son(Jesus).
Machiventa is the name of the Melchizedek who spoke to Abaraham.
---earl on 8/13/09
earl,
Angels were created, Adam & Eve were created, yet everyone AFTER Adam & Eve were BEGOTTEN children through procreation of Adam & Eve.
Angels were messengers of God, not kings and priests over humanity, or any authority over mankind in any way!.Now Israel the NATION was created for God's Glory, but again it was a Nation....formed out of the CLAY that was already formed from Adam. And even Israel had no power over all mankind! Even Gentiles did not pay tithes to Israel! |
|
---kathr4453 on 8/14/09 |
A Melchizedek is a title of an order of created beings and is a son of the creator Son(Jesus).
Machiventa is the name of the Melchizedek who spoke to Abaraham. |
|
---earl on 8/13/09 |
Some propose that Melchizedek was actually a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ. Melchizedek was the king of Salem. Would Jesus Christ have come to earth and ruled as an earthly king over a city? Melchizedek is similar to Christ in that they are both priests and kings, therefore, Melchizedek could be called a type of Christ, but they are not the same person.
The office of Priesthood under the Levitical Priesthood came only from the tribe of Levi. |
|
---kathr4453 on 8/13/09 |
---Ignatius I agree with your assessment. And as to whether not Abraham worshiped
Melchizedek this much is known the lesser always pays tithes to the greater! |
|
---mima on 8/13/09 |
Melchizedek may not be a Theophany, however, in the Old Testament, God "appeared" before man on several occasions. Theophany is a manifestation of God in the Bible that is tangible to the human senses. In its most restrictive sense, it is a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament period, often, but not always, in human form. Read Genesis 12:7-9, Genesis 18:1-33, Genesis 32:22-30, and others.
Thus, Melchizedek could very well be a Theophany, a pre-incarnate Christ.
"Abraham does not worship him."
If it was a Theophany, Abraham would not know it was a Theophany, as Jacob [Israel] did not know he was wresting with God until the end (Genesis 32:22-30).
In IC.XC, |
|
---Ignatius on 8/12/09 |
"If Melchizedek was Christ we would have to deal with two incarnations"
No, he wouldn't. If the mysterious figure Melchizedek was a theophany, a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ, He will only "appear" human (flesh). Pre-incarnate would be before He took on flesh (ie. Mary become his mother). "The Angel of the Lord" is often refer to as a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ. Actually, it is clear that in at least some instances, the angel of the Lord is a theophany, an appearance of God in physical form.
The Divine Word could certainty appear before man and interact with them, without any incarnation ("Christ"). Heb.7:4 doesn't say that. |
|
---Ignatius on 8/12/09 |
In Heb.7:4 One of the requirements for being a priest is that one had to be of human ancestry. This is one of the strongest arguments against he being a pre-incarnate Christ.
Christ became the high priest after he sacrificed his life and went to heaven
Abraham does not worship him.
He was announced as King in his 1st coming but was rejected Mt.12:22-45. At his 2nd coming he will be realized as King and function as one Isa.9:6 Mt.25:34-45.
If Melchizedek was Christ we would have to deal with two incarnations, since all priests were taken from among men. If he was Jesus who became man then his birth through Mary would be a second incarnation.
We know that didn't happen. |
|
---kathr4453 on 8/12/09 |
The major theme of Hebrews is the contrast between the earthly, Levitical prisethood, and the eternal priesthood of Melchizedek, which is fulfilled in Christ (Hebrews 5-7).
The mysterious figure Melchizedek is perhaps a theophany, a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ, at the very least he is a type of Christ, as Saint Paul explain in Hebrews in detail.
He is given no genealogy, and nothing is said of his death. He receives tithes from Abraham, implying he is superior to Abraham in rank, and by extension, superior to Abraham's descendants. He is not only a Priest, but a King as well. In this dual office, he is able to reconcile the justice of God with His Mercy. His name means "King of Righteousness".
In IC.XC, |
|
---Ignatius on 8/12/09 |
| Read These Insightful Articles About Software
|
Was Melchizedek the pre-incarnate Son of God?
NO! |
|
---kathr4453 on 8/11/09 |
Greetings all. I thought I would share another perspective with you on this subject.
There are two types of priests. Those who do the Temple duties (Levitical) and those who are priests to those around them. The latter I believe is the Melchizedekian line. You are familiar with this:
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Amazingly, this was not a NEW thing. All of Israel was asked to be the same at Sinai:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. |
|
---Ken_Rank on 8/7/09 |
I just found out from reading a Wikipedia article on the Cohenim (priestly descendants of Aaron) that Jews believe that Melchizedek was Shem. |
|
---katavasia on 4/11/09 |
Once more, mima asks a leading question, it's obvious what answer is desired. |
|
---katavasia on 3/30/09 |
"Was Melchizedek the pre-incarnate Son of God?" No.
Melchizedek was "made like unto the Son of God," foreshadowing Jesus, 'The Son of God'. Who abides as both a KIng and Priest continually, as a more excellent, or suitable, representative of the position, rank and purpose designated and determined of the Father. Therefore I agree with Tonne, he was, 'I believe', a theophany of the Father Himself. Please understand, this is simply my view, to be received or dismissed as such, as scripture is unclear concerning the matter.
What is clear is that the chronicles records all human males, starting with Adam, of any significance concerning Jesus sojourn on earth. It is interesting to note that Melchizedek is not listed. |
|
---Josef on 2/15/09 |
Milchisedek is only mentioned 3 times in the Bible. Genesis when Abram defeated the Kings. Psalms 110 and Hebrews. He walks on and off the pages. I believe He is God ETERNAL. The only one that has no mother or father is GOD, God has no geneology. Melchisdek functioned only as God lived through Him. |
|
---tonne on 1/26/09 |
Milchisidek was without mother without father or geneology. He was a person in physical appearance, but it is clear he was not born of mankind. Some have speculated he may have been an angel or even Jesus Christ, but neither are true. No beginning of day or end of life. Angels were created so therefore they had a beginning. Jesus Christ died (physically) so He had an end of life. He was God ETERNAL. How? Manifestation thru a human body. God would bring about great things thru Melchisidek who Jesus Christ would become. He functioned only as God lived through Him. |
|
---tonne on 1/26/09 |
The mystery of Melchisidek. He was without mother, without father and geneology. He has no beginning of days or end of life. The only one that is eternal is YETWEH. Perhaps He came down in a manifestation to prepare the way for His son Jesus Christ |
|
---tonne on 1/26/09 |
| Read These Insightful Articles About Anorexia
|
Melchizedek was a real, historical King-priest who served as a type for the greater King-Priest who was to come, Jesus Christ.....Attempts have been made to identify Melchizedek as an imaginary character named Shem, an angel, the Holy Spirit, Christ, and others. All are products of speculation, not historical facts, and it is impossible to reconcile them with the theological argument of Hebrews....Psalms 110:4 The Lord has sworn and will not change His mind. "You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek". Note: Jesus life could not be destroyed by death. |
|
---catherine on 1/25/09 |
Then he had to be from someone who survived the flood right? Noahs line survived the flood. |
|
---tonne on 1/24/09 |
"Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec." What does this statement, which is tru,e mean. Was Jesus after the order of Melchisedec(meaning Jesus was like unto Melchisedec? Or does it mean Jesus was after the ordor of Melchisedec such as being in second place behind Melchisedec. I have seen learned scholars change their mind and admit that Melchisedec was up preincarnation of Jesus Christ!! |
|
---mima on 1/22/09 |
Melchizedek was a man who functioned as a high priest before God established a priesthood by covenant law starting with Aaron. by the record Aaron had faults. and many others who followed after him did.
Melchizedek didnt have any of that. not having come from a line of priests, not having any record of faults, not having record of family genealogy. but that doesnt make him the pre-incarnate Son of God, because Jesus was foretold of and has a genealogical record.
however Jesus is commissioned as a High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. which means that apart from the law Jesus followed after him, to function in an eternal Priesthood. and we are made priests through Him. |
|
---opalgal on 1/22/09 |
**Hebrews 7:3
3-Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life, but made like unto the Son of God, abideth a priest continually."
Scripture does not say there is no record of
Melchizedek brith!! It says without Father, without Mother, without descent. Look again at these words and you can clearly see that Melchizedek did not come to be in the natural human manner nor did he have beginning or ending hum um. Very interesting.**
Like I said, you did not get the answer you wanted.
Melchizedek was a human being. Period. Deal. |
|
---katavasia on 1/20/09 |
If he had no "beginning of days", it would be kind of hard for him to be born on some day, plus if he had no *mother* . . . (o: I do not know of anyone ever who has been born but who has no mother (o: And he has no "end of life", so I consider he is possibly still on this earth. I may have met him, for all I know. If you were a person with priestly power to do God's good to people and you knew you could not die, for as long as this earth is, where would you go, and what would you do? Well, actually, we are in the priesthood of Jesus which is like unto the priesthood of Melchizedec. So, we can live and love as ones in an unending priesthood. We may die, but our effect of God's love will be without end (o: |
|
---Bill_bila5659 on 1/20/09 |
Early in this blog let us look closely at Scripture.
Hebrews 7:3
3-Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life, but made like unto the Son of God, abideth a priest continually."
Scripture does not say there is no record of
Melchizedek brith!! It says without Father, without Mother, without descent. Look again at these words and you can clearly see that Melchizedek did not come to be in the natural human manner nor did he have beginning or ending hum um. Very interesting. |
|
---mima on 1/20/09 |
Seeing that Melchizedek was a human being, I doubt very much that he could have been Jesus. Jesus was born thousands of years later. it was at his birth in Bethlehem that he became human. Melchizedek's name interpreted is "king of righteousness" but it doesn't say he was the king of righteousness, he was a man, a priest, a king, and by interpretaiton only, a king of righteousness. This entire happening can merely be a picture of Christ, but it is not Christ. |
|
---john on 1/20/09 |
Melchizedek was a great high priest in the old testament that was given the higher priesthood and it would be the same priesthood given to Jesus Christ himself to ordain his twelve apostles. The Old Testament speaks of two distinct and separate priesthoods. The Aaronic, named after Aaron and Melchizedek. The Aaronic priesthood had to authority to perform certain duties, but the Melchizedek was then given with all the blessings and authority to act in God's name. Men were given both separately through the laying on of hands by those holding that authority. No one could take the honour unto themselves. The Aaronic priesthood, or prepatory priesthood was given first, followed by the latter. |
|
---ashley on 1/19/09 |
Yes,that does refer to Jesus Christ.Melchizedek,the word itself means King(Melek in Hebrew)of the righteous (zadok in Hebrew).Christ is the only King of the Righteous(who are the Elect)and King of Salem(peace) as is stated in Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he [was] the priest of the most high God. |
|
---Lana on 1/19/09 |
Mima, Actually he was Noah,no recod of his birth, so he was pre-flood! Noah walked with God! |
|
---1st_cliff on 1/19/09 |
Heb. 6:20 says that Jesus was made a high priest after the order of Melchizedeck, it doesn't say the he was Melchizedek.
Heb.7:4 says he was a man.
I think Heb. 7 is telling us there is no record of his birth or death or geneology. Obviously, if he was a man and a high priest then he did have a begining and an end, they just don't know when. |
|
---john on 1/19/09 |
This may not be the answer you want, but no. |
|
---katavasia on 1/19/09 |
|
