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Emerging Church Movement

What do you know about the Emerging Church Movement in America? Does this post-modern centrism worry you or do you view it as "nothing new under the sun"?

Moderator - Just another false gospel.

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 ---TIMOTHY on 1/22/09
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I would like to share the next movement we should be looking for. Notice in it that Messiah doesn't return until....

This is a very over looked prophecy:

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord,
Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The question you have to ask yourself, what did the prophets teach?
---Ken_Rank on 2/14/09


Eph 4:30 and grieve not the Holy Spirit, John 14:16 a comforter that he may abide with you, John 14:26 the comforter... he shall teach you, Rom 8:14 as many as are led by the spirit, 1 Cr 2:10 the Spirit searches all things, Rev 2:7 what the spirit says to the churches.

The spirit grieves, gives comfort, the spirit is a he, he teaches, he leads and he searches. All these are characteristics of person hood.
---David on 2/13/09


Timothy~ Good bye to you too! Love the attitude you just displayed! We wish you well and that God richly blesses you too!
---Anne on 2/4/09


Good bye and I wish all of you well. I have enjoyed and learned from these discussions as metal truly sharpens metal. Although I have not always agreed with all the positions, I am regularly refreshed by the fact that there are still people of great passion within the body of Christ. My duties call me elsewhere and I will miss the spirited discussions. I truly wish everyone well and I pray that God richly blesses your ministries. God Bless.
---TIMOTHY on 2/4/09


Rod,

I can relate to what you're feeling. Before I was a Christian it was easy to criticize them and rationalize why I didn't want to be part of Christianity. Afterward, I couldn't just walk away because some Christians are jerks, because walking away from Christ is not an option. The world is not where I want to be, been there, done that, and I'm not going back.

The Bible commands us to love one another, not because we deserve it, but because God loves us. Notice God has to command us because it doesn't necessarily come naturally. I've found that when I obey God in this even though I don't feel it, by performing the actions of love (kindness, compassion, patience), the feeling often follows.

Hang in there!
---Laurie on 2/3/09




Rod~ Darn, I'd miss your voice of 'sanity' here, but you must do what is best for you.

I don't spend much time on here now...just on the subjects I'm passionate about, namely the ones concerning 'salvation.' I don't believe in arguing about 'nit-picky' subjects. However, if the subject is a crucial one, I want to defend it according to the truths of the Bible to the best of my ability.

I hope you aren't doubting Christianity because of these blogs. As you know, we're living in the world's most spiritually dark hour now, and Satan's creating vast confusion and lukewarmness in teaching.

In case you leave, just want you to know I've enjoyed your sound judgments on many topics and your thoughtful character. Take care!

---Anne on 2/3/09


Rod: "Steveng: Thanks for your comments. One reason I continued on these blogs was looking for whatever fellowship I could find."

God wants to have a personal one-on-one relationship with you just as you should seek one-on-one fellowship with others. Not from these blogs, but person to person. These blogs would surely confuse a Christian into leaving the faith. It is written that where two or more come together there is also Jesus. Jesus is definately not here on these blogs where two or more have difference of opinions. There is no unity on these blogs. A person on these blogs who has the REAL truth would only be considered another opinion by all the others.
---Steveng on 2/3/09


Speaking of the problem of wheat and tares being mixed up the Bible says this." Matthew 13:30, "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn".
---mima on 2/3/09


Rod~ I see the same as you concerning most churches. There are a lot of friendly type people, and all sorts of social programs/outlets (choir, drama club,coffees, committees etc)...but almost no real 'meat,' conviction, soul searching etc.

I don't get what the heck it's all about for the most part either. But the same thing was going on in Jesus' day, and you're right...I am absolutely sure God is up to something too. Something to hopefully bring back conviction and hopefully more unity.
---Anne on 2/3/09


Steveng: Thanks for your comments. One reason I continued on these blogs was looking for whatever fellowship I could find. But in general these blogs seem to serve more for contention, argumentation, backbiting, dissention, ridicule, hatred, and not for stimulating one another to love and good works.
I'll probably be leaving these blogs as they seem to stir up more dissention than being an encouragement.
Years ago I decided I was going to follow Christ no matter what other people did or said. but if I was in any doubt of my postition, after spending time on these blogs, I'd say if this is Christianity, this is ridiculous.
---Rod on 2/3/09




Rod: "(Someone will probably beat me up for not going.)"

All God wants is a personal relationship with his people. You wouldn't need an organization to make friends, do you? Contrary to what denominational churches say, we don't need to belong to a denominaional church to do that. This is the greatest deception against end-time Christians - a product of Satan. But we do need fellowship. It's this fellowship in the spirit that keeps us on the straight and narrow path towards the Kingdom of God.
---Steveng on 2/2/09


Thanks for your definition last week Donna. I had not heard the term used before. It helps to understand somewhat what is happening to the general church today. I seldom go to church, and am shocked usually when I do. I think I see a vivid contrast because I don't get used to the "whatever it is that is going on." (Someone will probably beat me up for not going.) It just doesn't work for me. I love Christ, and when I sit there I wonder what the heck I am doing.
Anne: I agree, sounds like most churches. I know that God is alive and well and He is up to something. Interesting how in church we are in person, but almost never have a conversation like we have here. Although, even this is certainly less than idea.
---Rod on 2/1/09


Mic, When did God "transfigure" Himself ???
---1st_cliff on 1/30/09


TIMOTHY: "Steveng: Satan is also the father of Christian isolationism."

Boy, you sure don't know the Christian lifestyle. It's not about isolation. It's about fellowship. You really need to carefully read the entire NT (and the OT) to find what Christians do. Do an online bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag." As for businesses, we are to conduct business as usual, but our preference is for Christians.

As for home schooling, some of the most notable people in the world were home schooled. It didn't mean being isolated.
---Steveng on 1/29/09


1st Cliff:-Nice try-cloud, bird,But has anyone seen God?and why do those that have not seen, understimated His power after all, He did transfigure Himself .why is the HOLY SPIRIT called a SPIRIT? BECAUSE GOD IS A SPIRIT.The only spirits visible to man are contained in a bottle.!BTW those are evil spirits.
---MIC on 1/29/09


Mic, Cute little "cliche'" but at the baptism of Jesus 3 distinct manifestations were present!
God's voice from heaven.
The Holy spirit as a bird.
Jesus in the water!

Holy Spirit as a bird?
Holy Spirit as tongues of fire?
As a cloud.
Never as a person!

Personalised by the use of "He" but also as "it" Rom.8.26 (KJV)
God fogives Blasphomy,so does Jesus.The H.S. cannot since it's not a "person"!

No 2/3 God, just Father and Son as scripture teaches using Holy Spirit power!
---1st_cliff on 1/29/09


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Steveng: Satan is also the father of Christian isolationism. Home Bible studies, home schooling, gated communities, christian only businesses, just to name a few. If you prefer home studies and Christian seclusion for whatever reason then enjoy. However the Bible clearly says that we are to be the salt and light of the world and not hide our light under a bushel. Read ACTS 2:42 for a clear definition of Christian fellowship. I truly wish your ministry well and I thank you for your work however this is an area where I will simply not be in agreement with you along with several million other sound, saved, and devoted Christians.
---TIMOTHY on 1/29/09


1st Cliff:-Like I said "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still"Matt.3:16-17 at Jesus Baptism clearly displays the 3 Godhead.and again By word "matt28:18If you believe in a 2/3 god excluding the Holy spirit Then you are excluding All of God.But maybe your teaching is different by other standards , so you may opine as you desire .IMHO you are wrong The H.S guided the Israelites out of Egypt in a pillar of FireExodus13:21-22.Who is the advocate?The holy Spirit.Deny the Holy spirit and you commit the unforgiveable sin.
---MIC on 1/28/09


TIMOTHY: "Steveng: I attend a non-denominational church which supports a home church network midweek."

A non denominational church is still a denominational church having it's own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. I've been to many of them during my travels throughout America. I've also attended many so-called "home churches" from denominational and nondenominational churches, they still teach from the (non)denominational point of view.

Do you agree that Satan if the father of confusion? So are denominational churches which are a creation of Satan.
---Steveng on 1/28/09


There is only one church that counts, and that is the church of Holy Spirit filled Obeyers of God. These people can belong to any religion that they wish to, but the only one that counts is that they are obedient to their consciences and do good rather than evil. Meeting a clique daily or weekly might help you, or might cause temptations and divorces. Be careful. We are told to not neglect meeting other Christians. This could be once a month even. It could be one person or a crowd. The real church is the needy, homeless, prisoners, sick and so on, spoken of in Matthew 25. Visit them.
---frances008 on 1/28/09


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Mic,You're not "speaking out of turn" that's what blogging is all about!

The Father has a name-YHVH
The Son has a name -Jesus
The Holy Spirit has no name!

The lesser is always "sent" by the greaterThe Father "sent" the SonThe Father and Son both sent the Holy Spirit Never the reverse!

Nowhere in the bible is the Holy Spirit called God.
---1st_cliff on 1/28/09


Donna66: When Jesus mentioned baptising "in the name of" He's talking "authority"

Illustration- Stop "in the name of the law"

The law doesn't have a name perse' it means stop bu the "authority" of law!

So one is baptised by authority of the Father,the Son and the power of the Holy Spirit

Both Father and Son use Holy Spirit (power) to accomplish any undertaking!
---1st_cliff on 1/28/09


Steveng: I attend a non-denominational church which supports a home church network midweek. I have a home church that meets at my house regularly and I see the strengths and weaknesses of them both, and they both have weaknesses. I have never attended an organized denomination so I can not speak for or against them. However having a structure to the home church networks keeps the loose cannons from firing away without accountability. Simply stated, I will never have a home church again that is not attached to an accountability structure. There are simply too many nuts with agendas in the world.
---TIMOTHY on 1/28/09


Ist Cliff:-I dont usually speak out of turn But your statement in 'NOT' acknowledging the Holy Spirit as a God exists in your mind based on your findings. But Jesus did say He would send the Holy spirit to Guide His church,He alluded to this part of the Blessed Trinity as Advocate.This is a fact accepted by many than just the few who deny the existence of This God who endows you with wisdom,which you sometimes display.
---MIC on 1/28/09


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If the trinity doesn't exist, how could Jesus tell his disciples:

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

What did He mean by this?
---Donna66 on 1/28/09


obewan: "I might add maybe we need to hear more about the "false gospel" of churches..."

Why fill your heart and mind with such garbage? If your faith is strong (without the need for denomiantional churches) you wouldn't need to fill your heart and mind with unnecessary things of man. Putting on the whole armor of God will keep you from false gospels. Studying Scripture, reflecting what you read, meditate on God's Word and applying it will keep you on the right path towards the Kingdom. Meeting daily with others (not at a denominational church) will help stregthen your walk significantly. Do an online bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag."
---Steveng on 1/27/09


TIMOTHY: "In Revelations God describes seven distinct and seperate churches..."

If you read the book of Acts, you will also find the names of churches. These are not denominational churches as many Christians think they are, but are locations of groups of Christians. When I used to set up home "churches" throughout the United States, I would identify them by their location. Each home "church" member would bring in their own ideas of gospel, taught by the denomination they were in, and, therefore, needed to be set straight by teaching straight from Scripture not using concordances, novels, other authors opinions and other Christian reference books. Read Acts to find how the apostles dealt with this problem.
---Steveng on 1/27/09


Setting up a home "church" is rather easy. Just invite a couple of your closest friends to meet daily. Meeting daily is biblical because living a Christian life is a 24/7 lifestyle not a once a week pep talk by denominational churches. So an online bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag" to help stretghen your walk with God and to stay on the right path towards the Kingdom.

Note: I use the word "church" to identify common language. In reality, the word "church" are people - Christians, period. Not a building, non-profit corporation or a denomination having their own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible (which are a creation of Satan).
---Steveng on 1/27/09


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Leon, Since you "portend" to be the :light" in all this darkness,illuminate for me the scripture that says "God the Holy Spirit"!

Do you realize that quoting a scripture that doesn't exist is deliberately misleading?

You who so glibly talk about "bible truth" purposely cite a non-existing scripture so as to make it appear that I'm the one in the dark..shame on you!

"God the Father,God the Son and God the Holy Spirit" exists only in your warped mind not in the bible!

Who's in the dark here?

Apology please!
---1st_cliff on 1/27/09


After over 2000 years we hear of a new 'emerging'[ Church.Do we not have enough Denominal amd nondenominational churches ?Where did all these spring from?Man says they are man made meanwhile The God made institution guided by the Holy Spirit sits in the background.So I would estimate this is satans guileful way of redirecting people away from Matt16:3-19 which is the true church and given more or less NO credence on a Christian denominational church which are already in defiance, of Christs NOMINATED institution. Sad state of affairs!!Then we wonder why the world is going to hell and ruination.
---MIC on 1/27/09


I might add maybe we need to hear more about the "false gospel" of churches whose main focus is legalism and right wing politics.
---obewan on 1/27/09


You really need to be careful about painting all seeker friendly churches with the same broad brush. The term emerging church could be applied to a wide variety of church settings. In general, to me, it means that a church is seeking a return to its New Testament roots and structure. It can involve a focus on Christlike ministry as opposed to a focus on legalism and Republican party politics. Many seekers avoid the church simply because they view it as another arm of the Republican party with a heavy emphasis on abortion protest and an anti-gay agenda rather than an emphasis on saving lost souls of human sinners.
---obewan on 1/27/09


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Steveng: In Revelations God describes seven distinct and seperate churches in seven different cities with their own unique set of challenges. We also know within those individual cities there was a network of these Churches that God was addressing by city with defined leaders including Timothy as a Bishop. I agree that present day denominations have gone astray, and I also agree that the body is the church. However God is clearly calling out a combined block of believers with common sins by city so there was definitely structure to the "home churches" in the Bible.
---TIMOTHY on 1/27/09


Donna~ What you described sounds like the philosophy about 80-85% of churches out there already.
---Anne on 1/27/09


Cliff: You choose not to comprehend Bible truth in light of overwhelming evidence (Gen.-Rev.) supporting the reality of a Triune Godhead. Who did Jesus (the Son of God) pray to if not God the Father? Who was Jesus talking about when he said he must go away so the Comforter (God the Holy Spirit) could come to instruct believers? Did Jesus really see God, the Holy Spirit come & light upon him? (Matt. 3:16, etc.) The Bible says so & I believe it.

What the Bible clearly illuminates can never be overcome by your current beliefs. Regretfully, I can show you nothing since you so love darkness & choose to resist, & not see the light of truth.
---Leon on 1/27/09


So I am still wondering what the emerging church is.
Is it a seeker friendly church where never is heard a discouraging or convicting word?
Is a lack of knowledge about the Trinity? Check out Matthiew 3:13-17 Father Son and Holy spirit are all present at one place and at one time.
I have been hearing about some type of new teaching going around. So is this it?
Blessings, Sue
---Sue on 1/26/09


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The Emerging Church Movement is a recently popular philosohy of church growth. It a non-denominational approach in which the emphasis is on drawing in "seekers" without a Christian background or who may not feel comfortable in a more traditional church. That is certainly a valid goal.The ministries of these churches are not primarily spiritual, but tend to center on social and physical needs in hopes of intoducing Christianity by these means. Often, however, all the "seekers" actually find is friendship and entertainment, not Salvation as was supposedly intended.
---Donna66 on 1/27/09


I hate to display my ignorance, but what is the "Emerging Church Movement?"
---Rod on 1/26/09


Concerning the word "trinity."

"A rose by any other name is still a rose."

God has many names in the bible. So does Jesus. All the other godly people were given other names besides their given name. So what does one more name, trinity, say? That there are three persons in God - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
---Steveng on 1/26/09


Concerning "church."

Satan is the father of confusion. Satan is also the creator of denominational "churches." There is no unity, no harmony, among the 3,300 Christian denominational "churches" in the world - each having their own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. Christians bicker among each other about whose church is better. They even bicker within the same denomination saying "We have a better pastor," or "We have better entertainment," etc. Todays denominational "churches" is the greatest delusion to be taught to Christians. The church is not a building, a nonprofit corporation or a denomination. The church ARE the Christians, period.
---Steveng on 1/26/09


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Leon, You're right the bible is crystal clear on this subject..For instance#1 Trinity is not in the bible

#2 Nowhere in the OT or in Jewish religion/tradition is a Polytheist god even alluded to Deu.6.4 "Our God is One God.

#3 No Jewish bishops were at the Nicene meeting 325 CE

#4 Rome was well represented and accustomed to triune gods like Jupiter,Juno and Minerva.

#5 Egypt was represented and familiar with Isis,Horus and Serapis.

It's obvious where "trinity" came from!

"Trinity" was coined by Tertulian 100 yrs after Christ!

Homoousius (not in scripture)was taken to prove trinity
---1st_cliff on 1/26/09


Leon, Jn.1.1 "In the "beginning" ..the Word was "WITH" Theos" clearly two persons..do you know "English" WITH indicates more than one,or are you going to explain that away?

#2 "He was WITH God in the beginning" are you going to explain that away too?

#3 "without HIM nothing was made" is that not "co-creator"

Check your Greek..two Gods are mentioned here..Theo and hoTheos (interlinear)

Show me how you would translate 'a" God from Greek that does not have the article "a"!
---1sst_cliff on 1/26/09


Not at all Cliff! That's what you're saying (your "theology"). I'm saying what I believe based on what the Bible says. You're trying to rationalize things that go beyond your (our) realm of finite understanding apart from Holy Spirit guidance.

What Bible version do you read? Mine doesn't say Jesus was "co-creator". (Jn.1:3)

"Before His human birth...Jesus did not exist?" Clearly Jn. 1:1-14 says otherwise.

"God begot His son before the world's creation!"? Where, specifically, in the Bible does it say that Cliff?

Why do you persist in kicking against the pricks? The Bible is crystal clear if only you choose to believe. :)
---Leon on 1/26/09


Timothy: Afraid? :D God's inspired word (the Bible) supports & defends itself better than you or I ever could.

Yes, "...stand up & say something." But, do so only by the leading of God, the Holy Spirit. Let God word your mouth before you speak. If He doesn't, be quiet & let Him (not you) be God!
---Leon on 1/26/09


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Leon: No fear hear, just disgust over the twisting of God's word. Be either hot or cold, God does not like the luke warm. If someone is blaspheming God's word then it is time to stand up and say something. Don't be afraid Leon, it is not a sin to defend the word of God.
---TIMOTHY on 1/26/09


Leon, Just one problem with your theology,You're trying to say that Jesus was not God's Son before His "human"birth?

Before His human birth that Jesus did not exist?

Jn.1.1 says He was co-creator!

God begot His son before the world's creation!
---1st_cliff on 1/25/09


Cliff: Where I'm coming from is to say it isn't possible for us to be as intelligent as God. :) Attempting to do so leads to the very same deception first introduced in the garden. (G3:5) Our understanding of God is totally dependent on God revealing Himself to us. Apart from God showing "us", we really CAN'T SEE Him & His plan of redemption with clarity.

"Tell me when you think His Son was 'begotten'!"

Thanks for asking Cliff. It's not a matter of what I, or anyone else, "think". Thinking (supposing) & knowing are two different things. The birth of Jesus is a, recorded in detail, Bible fact. Believe God & "know" the answer to your question is found in John 1:1-18.
---Leon on 1/25/09


Leon, I know where you're comming from,but it's not necessary for us to be as intelligent as God to see that the concept of a "triune" God is manufactured by superstitious pagan religionists.

Scripture tells us that God (YHWH) is the most high and that at some point in time He "BEGAT" a Son, and together they created all things!

Tell me when you think His Son was "begotton"!
---1st_cliff on 1/25/09


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Cliff: There's nothing "false" about the biblical Trinity of God. Your problem is you're trying to understand infinite, ageless Divinity (God) from your finite intellect. It can't be done apart from receiving Divine (Holy Spirit) guidance in your life. You, "we" aren't & can't be on God's intellectual level. He is the Creator, we're His creatures (created beings).

Timothy: Fear is sin. Christians are to hear & obey (adhere to) God's word as taught in the Bible, nothing more or less! When we know & walk in God's truth, we are false gospel free.
---Leon on 1/24/09


It is another snare and possibly part of the GREAT FALLING AWAY which must take place prior to Jesus' return.
---jody on 1/23/09


We have all seen these False Gospels come and go through the years however, with all due respect to the moderator, I don't believe that dismissing this one at this time is the answer. The Obama movement towards the middle will strengthen this philosophy with no thanks to a popular television talk show host. I'm not sure what the answer is, however I am getting this gut feeling that we need to nip this one in the bud.
---TIMOTHY on 1/23/09


Isaiah calls Satan > "You who weakened the nations!" (in Isaiah 14:12) All yoo-hoo has to do is make people weak, so he can control them, keeping people weak by having them in a religious rig that does not require them to change to how God's love is. Then they are weak enough to argue and complain in marriages, wrecking their kids with their terrible example so their kids don't know how to love in THEIR marriages. And *decoy* our attention away from God, by getting our attention busy with seeing and criticizing all the wrong things in this evil world. There is this war for our attention.
---Bill_bila5659 on 1/23/09


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Mod, An "apt" description,just another false gospel!
It is trinitarian based and as such gives itself away,a concept promoted by Constantine, Emperor to the sun god "Sol".

Think about it ..It's absolutely impossible for a father and son to be the same age!

Jesus was "begotten" by His Father (did God "beget" Himself?)at some point in time?

Was God His own Son?
Was Jesus His own Father?

It's like the bible says They are Father AND Son!
---1st_cliff on 1/22/09


These are very different, as well as evil times. I'm afraid most people on planet earth are going south, if you catch my drift, and you won't need a coat.
---pete on 1/22/09


The goal of the emerging church is apparently to make the Gospel more palatable to unbelievers. It doesn't work. If it's totally pleasing, it's not the Gospel.

This approach succeeds in attracting lots of church-goers, provides an abundance of activities and social interaction. A few may hear the Truth somewhere along the line and be converted. But,I fear, a great many more will be deceived into thinking they are right with God when they are not.
---Donna66 on 1/22/09


After seeing the emerging church movement instituted in a few churches I find myself in total agreement with the moderator.
---mima on 1/22/09


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