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Break Ten Commandments

Can we "by grace" break the Ten Commandments, and if so, which ones?

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*What I find so strange is that the same Christians who fight for the right to keep the Ten Commandments in public places from being taken down by unbelievers often say and live like the same Commandments do not apply to them."

The essential difference between Sabbaterians who wish to keep the OT Sabbath and Christians is that the latter believe in observing the Christian Sabbath - the Lord's day which is Sunday.
---Lee1538 on 6/3/09


MarkV,
I believe we are in agreement.
---AG on 2/26/09


AG, that is correct. The more Scriptures that speak of the same topic, the more you know you are in the right direction. What happens when a person takes a topic wrong, interprets it wrong, later in life, they run into many problems. That one thing wrong traps them. Then two concepts come to their minds, or maybe three. Pretty soon they don't know which is correct. What I did was, I got myself a few books in hermenuitics. To be able to tell what a parable was, or a metaphor, what literal interpretation meant. Medieval Exegesis used in early times by the fathers was bound by tradition, and the allegorical method was prominent. That is the reason much of what they interpreted was wrong.
---MarkV. on 2/24/09


MarkV,
I'm with you that scripture interprets scripture. Like I said, "it's important to read Paul's writings the way they were written, on the backs of the OT and Christ's teaching."

I'm not questioning the "goodness" of Bob's response. Paul's writings can easily be misinterpreted by the ignorant or easily twisted by those with an agenda. I am encouraging Bob to supplement his response with additional scripture.

Wouldn't you agree that by combining the testimony of multiple witnesses (Moses, the prophet's, Christ, and the apostles) we are far more likely to walk away with a accurate interpretation of scripture?
---AG on 2/23/09


AG, any passage can be interpreted different if the person interpreting has a bias heart. But even if they do, there is other Scriptures to confirm the passage has been interpreted right or wrong. Scripture interpret's Scripture. There is nothing wrong with any of the writers of Scripture, there is a lot wrong in those who interpret Scripture. They are human and continue to fail even when they are saved.

Bob and Bruce I believe gave very good answers that should be understood. The law of sin and death is very much in effect to those who are lost. The penalty of the law of sin and death has been removed from all those under Grace.
---MarkV. on 2/22/09




Bob,
Quoting Paul is like quoting Thomas Jefferson. All American politicians love to quote Thomas Jefferson. Why? Because Jefferson was a prolific writer who said many things that can be interpreted different ways depending on your bias.
Paul was also wrote prolifically and people take different meanings from his words. For example Christians who do not want to be obligated to OT commands often quote Paul when he said you can't be justified by works. On the other hand, those who believe OT commands are still relevant tend to quote Paul's claim that the law is holy, righteous and good.

The bottom line: It's important to read Paul's writings the way they were written, "on the backs of the OT and Christ's teaching".
---AG on 2/21/09


Yochanon: "What I find so strange is that the same Christians who fight for the right to keep the Ten Commandments in public places from being taken down by unbelievers often say and live like the same Commandments do not apply to them."

Amen! Truly profound!
---jerry6593 on 2/21/09


It can be difficult in knowing the trues from the false. For unbelievers it would be impossible. Even the elect can be fooled. However, anyone who expects to one day see the living God will have, and will heed to the conviction of the HOlY SPIRIT when he or she is in sin. In otherwords, God will not leave His own alone.
---catherine on 2/20/09


What I find so strange is that the same Christians who fight for the right to keep the Ten Commandments in public places from being taken down by unbelievers often say and live like the same Commandments do not apply to them.....
---Yochanon on 2/20/09


That's okay Tommy3007. I was more than happy to let you know that I too know that God did write the Ten Commandments. God forbid if I even accidently led you to think of me otherwise. I am glad that you do pay attention. Apologies always accepted. Hope you have a most glorious week, as unto the Lord. Or the week will count for nothing.
---catherine on 2/16/09




My apologies, Catherine. It appears I did misread your post. Re-reading, I am inclined to agree with your statement. Jesus Himself told the scribes and Pharisees that He had come to fulfill the Law not to destroy it. The only thing He "did away with" was the penalty against us. He died that we might live!
---tommy3007 on 2/16/09


Tommy3007>>>You must pay close attention to what I am saying. Ofcourse God wrote the Ten Commandments. But not so Jesus would come along later and abolish them. In other words the Ten Commandments are still enforced today.
---catherine on 2/15/09


Catherine, According to my understanding of the passage in Exodus, God DID in fact write the Ten Commandments. The first time He even made the tablets of stone that they were written on. After Moses cast the first tablets down and broke them, God instructed Moses to make new tablets and bring them up on the mountain where God again wrote on the tablets. Whether God wrote them or not, they were still His Commandments, so how does that change anything? The only difference now is that we don't have to worry about the "penalty" of thwe Law as Jesus has already paid that. This doesn't release us from the responsibility to obey God in any way shape or form.
---tommy3007 on 2/15/09


The way I see it is that Jesus paid the price to redeem us from the law, so that he could change our want to. If he truly lives in us WE NO LONGER WANT TO SIN. HE HAS CHANGED OUR WANT TO'S.
---Gayla on 2/14/09


Paul was under the law of sin and death until he became saved. Then he spent most of his ministry explaining the differences between the two. Nothing has changed today. An individual is born in sin under the law and remains their until they die or accepts Jesus as their Savior. If they accept Jesus as their Savior they fall under grace. They are given the Holy Spirit that they might know all the things freely given to them by God. Paul said nobody could be justified by the works of the law. Scripture tells us that the law could not make one righteous. Only the righteous enter into the kingdom of heaven. He who has the son has the life.
---Bob on 2/14/09


Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Jesus removed the penalty of sin for those who are saved. He did NOT remove the law of sin and death.

What happens to those who are unsaved (dead in sin)? Are they not still subject to the law of sin and death -- "the soul that sinneth, it shall die"?
---BruceB on 2/14/09


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The issue is not which one a person breaks, since the whole Law to include the others and YAHUSHUA's(detailed teaching about TORAH) is summed up in two Love YHVH with everything we have and Love your neighbor has yourself.

When you've broken any you've broken these two commandmants, thus the whole Law. One cannot sin without tresspassing the Law of YHVH. If we disobey the Holy Spirit, we've just broken the Law because He is the Spirit Torah that lives in true beleivers.

Therefore, walk in living repentance and allow the Holy Spirit to conform us to the image of Messiah(Christ).
---Yochanon on 2/14/09


"Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division, Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Mixing the old covenant law, the ministry of death and condemnation, as Paul referred to it, with new covenant grace doesn't work. Faith based grace and flesh works law can't be mixed. Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Those who continue to serve the law cannot experience the freedom of grace.
---Bob on 2/14/09


Alright, I am going to settle this thing once and for all. So pay attention. God, Himself, did not write the Ten Commandments and then God, Himself, sent His Son later to do away with them.[abolish] Got it. Some have put in many scriptures explaining the importance of keeping the Ten Commandments, for God's loving kindness. But, some will never got it. Get it. So what are you gonna do!
---catherine on 2/14/09


The commandments were ABOLISHED (Ephesians 2:15) and we MUST live THE LAW OF LIBERTY (this is not a REQUEST by God, James 1:25 and 2:12).
---more_excellent_way on 2/11/09

Libery is freedom.

Yeshua said "You are my disciples if you keep my COMMANDMENTS and you will know the TRUTH and TRUTH will set you FREE. (Jhn 8:31-32)

So what is the definition of TRUTH that sets us FREE?

Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, And Your LAW is TRUTH.
---Meira on 2/13/09


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But showing loving kindness to thousands, to those who love me and keep my commandments. Do you want God to show you loving kindness? Well!!!>>>[Exodus 19:5]
---catherine on 2/13/09


The physical side of Jesus kept the 10 commandments because the spiritual side of Jesus was God himself in the flesh. Thereby fulfilling them and offering that fulfillment, since we get all his righteousness accounted to us, to us. We receive his righteousness when we receive him.
We know, you and I, that we are no damn good. And not just us but the whole human race is in that condition. However the Word(and the Word was made God) came down in the person of Jesus and removed our filthy rags of unrighteousness. Glory hallelujah to the name of the Lord. Thank you Jesus!!!!
---mima on 2/13/09


That imputation must of necessity include his fulfilling the law for us.

---mima on 2/11/09

Mima or someone, please tell me HOW Jesus FULFILLED the 10 commandments.

How can someone who OWNS everything ....be tempted to steal to begin with? If HE took everyting you have....it's HIS anyway!!!

Are you saying Jesus had to KEEP the law in order to PROVE He was God? If He kept it so perfectly...why then did He die? Breaking the Law brings death. Then Jesus must have broken it...Right or Wrong???

OR did Jesus die because we ALL broke it...and HE took OUR PLACE...fulfilling the penalty for US?
---kathr4453 on 2/12/09


If as Christians the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ is imputed to us, and part of the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ is shown in his fulfilling the law(the 10 Commandments). That imputation must of necessity include his fulfilling the law for us. mima

this is correct. However this does not mean we are free to sin because we are in Christ.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
---Samuel on 2/11/09


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If as Christians the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ is imputed to us, and part of the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ is shown in his fulfilling the law(the 10 Commandments). That imputation must of necessity include his fulfilling the law for us.

If the law still condemns us then we are under condemnation for none (no none) have fulfilled the law except the Lord Jesus Christ.

---mima on 2/11/09


MANY, many, many people have always taken PRIDE in battling the 10 commandments (they GLORIFY THEMSELVES instead of glorifying Jesus).

They also want to continue overcoming the "challenges" of "text"/scripture, laws, requirements, etc. that the Israelites used in order to worship (again, they glorify themselves with pride). They refuse to believe the truth...

2 Thessalonians 2:10

"because they refused to love the truth AND SO BE SAVED".

The commandments were ABOLISHED (Ephesians 2:15) and we MUST live THE LAW OF LIBERTY (this is not a REQUEST by God, James 1:25 and 2:12).
---more_excellent_way on 2/11/09


God bless you lindsey you are so correct the king james version reads
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
the definition of establish means to make real
---Aaron_Young on 2/10/09


Paul says "NAS Romans 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." You cannot pick and choose which cammandment to keep. Its all or none. See James 2:10. Also if the law could be change or made void then Jesus would not have died. All He would have to do is call sin righteousness and all would be well.See Isa 5:20
---Lindy on 2/10/09


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Alan you are correct. We 'can' do what we like, but we 'may' not murder etc.

This is what I was taught in primary school all those years ago, and it is still correct, I believe. However today 'can' is used in the place of 'may.'

I stand corrected, and thank you.

My point is that we are not saved by the 10 Commandments but we may not break them, may we?
---Warwick on 2/10/09


the handwriting that was against us wasn't what God wrote with his on fingers which is the ten comandments and so forth but what moses wrote in deutoronomy 31 that was against us read it how can something for us be against us sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath.
---aaron on 2/10/09


We do not break any Commandment by Grace. Grace is what allows us to keep the Commandments and what forgives us for breaking them.

Breaking the Ten Commandments is sin.

Grace is what allows us who have broken at one time or another all of the ten to go to heaven in spite of being sinners.

Grace is forgivness of sin and counting the death of JESUS as our death and His life instead of ours.
---Samuel on 2/10/09


We are going to be judged under the law of liberty. Many people who would rather not do this can complain to God, but He will tell you "But, I said so". Therefore, we should...

James 2:12
"So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty".

2000 years ago, Jesus spoke to people who were used to worshipping under the sin laws, so God explains to us that His son abolished the sin laws.

Ephesians 2:15
"by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances".

1 Corinthians 15:56
"the power of sin is the law".

Murder, etc. is still wrong, but these 10 laws have nothing to do with the Christian and have no power over us.
---more_excellent_way on 2/10/09


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many deny the bible, to live wicked lives in ignorance to truths. They glory in committing adultery, fornication, or murder, and then saying they can because the commandments are no longer valid. Question: since when did God start saying he isn't the same yesterday, today, and forever and truths never change or he ceases to be. Jesus Christ wrote the commandments for Moses, before he was born into the world and reaffirmed them himself to his apostles. Hundreds of scriptures state obey the commandments, repent daily of wickedness. Adulterer's, fornicators, liars, murderers, etc will be cast out to live with Satan, not in the kingdom of God. It's sad, but many will believe what they want to believe at their own peril and damnation.
---ashley on 2/10/09


Warwick ... We are going back now to a discussion of the meaning of words!!

At school, if a boy wanted to go "wash his hands", he raised his hand. If when the teacher asked what he wanted, he said "Can I go to the toilet?", the teacher would say "Yes you can, but you may not"

It is quite possible for Christians to break the commandments (that is the meaning of "can") and indeed we do. I don't think you claim perfection.
---alan8566_of_UK on 2/10/09


As the 4th commandment has little if anything to do with love of neigbor and the fact that it is not commanded in the New Covenant of the church, and since it was not taught in the early church, it is not applicable to Christians.
---lee1538 2/8/09

Let's look at what Yeshua said. "And thou shalt love the Lord thy YHUH with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment." Mark 12:30

This is a summation of the first 4 of the 10, including the sabbath.

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John5:3

How can we say we love him if we do not keep his commandments?
---Meira on 2/9/09


We are given commandments as guidelines in our lives. Jesus reaffirmed that the ten commandments were still in effect in Matt 5. Anyone that says they can commit adultery, kill, steal, lie, cheat, have not read the bible because it says clearly. "and Jesus said unto them that adulterers, murderers, liars, fornicators, etc shall NOT enter the kingdom of God." No unclean thing will enter God's kingdom. He also said except ye repent, ye shall not enter the kingdom of God. That puts salvation in our hands. I God will forgive whom I will forgive. Endure to the end in righteousness, not wickedness. Pray always so you may avoid temptation. Shall I go on.
---ashley on 2/9/09


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Alan the question is whether we Christians can commit adultery or murder.

You say we can?

Lee rarely if ever answers questions and will not answer this because he knows we cannot break the 10 Commnadments.

I know how easy it is for you to missunderstand so I will explain further. The 10 commandments were not given to save anyone but to show us how far we are from God's standards. We Christians are saved by God's unmerited favour only by Christ's finished work upon the cross. We can only be saved if we accept that in His eyes we are hopeless sinners bound for hell. Accepting this we gratefully accept His free offer of forgiveness and salvation.

None the less we cannot break His Commandments.
---Warwick on 2/9/09


I am going to try to make this short because i am at work at the moment.James 2 10-12 r> 10For whosoever shall keep the whole law,and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. that you can't keep the whole law and not offend simple in the ten comandments is the a big part of the law. which is why james referd to it if you do one and not the other you transgress.
---Aaron_Young on 2/9/09


Warwick ... "Lee the question is: Can we commit murder, adultery etc or not?"

Let me answer for Lee ... I am sure he would give the same answer to your question.

The answer is of course a emphatic YES.
Millions upon millions have proved this.

But Lee has already made it clear that we should not.
---alan8566_of_UK on 2/9/09


Lee the question is: are we able to break the 10 commandments? Can we commit murder, adultery etc or not?
---Warwick on 2/8/09


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Warlock - *Another question for you not to answer: Are you saying we can break the 10 commandments?

What I am saying is essentially Romans 13:9-10
The commandments, You shall not commit adultery, not murder, not steal, not covet, and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


As the 4th commandment has little if anything to do with love of neigbor and the fact that it is not commanded in the New Covenant of the church, and since it was not taught in the early church, it is not applicable to Christians.
---lee1538 on 2/8/09


Warwick - the Sabbath commandment can hardly be viewed as anything more than a ceremonial law.

It is not innate to ones knowledge of right or wrong, it is something that has to be learned.

Ro 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.

Since the Gentiles did not observe the OT sabbath,how then did they by nature do what the law required?

Secondly, since Christians are under the New Covenant and not the Old, are they accountable to OT laws not found within the New Covenant of the church?

It is a sad thing when some feel a great need to focus on external behavior and not on Christ who became our rest.
---lee1538 on 2/8/09


Only person who broke the ten Commandments in one shot was Moses.
---Paul2 on 2/8/09


Lee I think I knew we are not obliged to obey Jewish ceremonial law!

But as I previously pointed out Jeusus said Matt. 5:19 'Anyone who breaks any one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the Kingdom of heaven.'

I would assume He of all people knew we are not obliged to follow Jewish ceremonial law!

Isn't it obvious He was referring to the 10 commandments?

After all, that is the topic heading here-the 10 Commandments, not ceremonial law, isn't it?

Another question for you not to answer: Are you saying we can break the 10 commandments?
---Warwick on 2/7/09


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Sabbath rest on the seventh day is a little bit of heaven right now. JESUS is our rest from trying to save us. Sabbath is a day spent with JESUS in love and time with HIM.
---Samuel on 2/6/09


Samuel, what I have found is Christ in me is an eternal 365/24/7 time with Jesus, but not only Him, but our Father. We come to God our Father through Jesus Christ.

Are you spending time with the Father? I talk to my Father in heaven 365/24/7. It's a good thing I have unlimited minutes, because the line is always open, and no one has hung up even for a moment in all these 30+ years.

It would grieve me if I could only fellowship with the Lord one day a week.
---kathr4453 on 2/7/09


Bryan, I agree with you completely. Col 2:16 does say let no man act as your judge in respect to a Sabbath day. Jesus fulfilled the law, and God declared all foods clean through Peter. I've always felt that a born again child of God should treat every day as a Sabbath day. Christians are judged daily by non-believers and if they don't Jesus in us, our light is not shining.
---Bob on 2/7/09


I totally agree with this statement by---AlwaysOn.
"No, although we are not justified by the law, we should not willingly break any of the 10 commandments and use grace as a reason."
---mima on 2/7/09


Lee: "One is not responsible for disobeying laws that are not applicable." Depends on who establishes applicability. God said that the 10C are applicable to us all. You say "NO!, I don't believe it, so it's not applicable to me." I'd like to be there the next time you're stopped for speeding and you try that logic on the cop! LOL!
---jerry6593 on 2/7/09


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"but until then the scriptures teach us not to judge one another because of sabbaths for they are a shadow of the things to come. Colossians 2:11-17"
---Bryan on 2/6/09

The yearly feast days (or holidays) is the subject of Col 2, not the weekly Sabbath Day. These were prophecies of the future (things to come) - not memorials of the past as the weekly Sabbath is a memorial of Creation. They were fulfilled at the cross, and thus became irrelevant to the NT church. They were contained in Moses "handwriting of ordinances" which had resided on the side of the Ark - not inside like God's handwritten tables of stone where the Sabbath Commandment was written.
---jerry6593 on 2/7/09


There is a difference between the Levitical law and the Ten Commandments. We are not under Levitical law. As Gentile believers, we never were. If one has truely received Christ as their Lord and Savior, then you'll keep the Ten Commandments by faith, and by the Spirit. You won't murder. You won't still. You won't covet your neighbors wife. And so on... As for the Sabbath, I have also wondered if Jesus is going to call the entire body of Christ to repent of this, but until then the scriptures teach us not to judge one another because of sabbaths for they are a shadow of the things to come. Colossians 2:11-17
---Bryan on 2/6/09


Warwick - under the New Covenant of the Church most of the laws in the Old Testament not found within the New, are no longer applicable.

One is not responsible for disobeying laws that are not applicable.

Think of a covenant as a legally binding agreement much like a last will & testament, and whatever is NOT in the covenant of the church is not applicable to the Christian.

If what I say is not true, then we should find ourselves building altars & sacrificing goats, bulls, sheep, & goats.

And we would be doing the temple thing as well as well as observing the jewish festivals.
---lee1538 on 2/6/09


No, although we are not justified by the law, we should not willingly break any of the 10 commandments and use grace as a reason. Breaking the law is sin (1 John 3:4). We are no longer judged by the law and, in fact, we are forgiven if we break it, because of the sacrifice Messiah made for us. None of this gives us carte blanche to go around sinning, though. His law is good (1 Timothy 1:8) and if we obey it, we live as Messiah did, which should be the lifestyle we all strive to keep. If we fall short, no worries, we are forgiven...but we have to keep trying.
---AlwaysOn on 2/6/09


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Lee I am not under the law.

So you are saying that not being under the law I can break the law without penalty.

I would have posed this as a question, rather than a statement however you duck difficult questions. In fact you duck most questions.
---Warwick on 2/6/09


Sabbath rest on the seventh day is a little bit of heaven right now. JESUS is our rest from trying to save us. Sabbath is a day spent with JESUS in love and time with HIM.
---Samuel on 2/6/09


***Christ, not a day of the week, became the rest for those who believe - a rest that Israel who lacked faith could not enter.**

Yes Lee, and if anyone wants to re-read Hebrews 3 & 4, you will see the words ENTER INTO HIS REST....nothing about KEEPING it. Entering the Land was entering His Rest....His Promise. No one said they had to enter in on the 7th day...and no where is it stated anyone ENTERED IN on the 7th Day.

WE enter His rest by entering through the VEIL, that is to say His Flesh..by a New and LIVING way.... Hebrews 10....You can't Enter into the Everlasting Covenant any other way, except THROUGH Christ.
---kathr4453 on 2/6/09


Warwick - *Lee are you not contradicted by the words of Jesus (Matt. 5:17-20 when He says we cannot break any of the commandments?

If you place yourself under the law that is true. Howbeit, if you break any of the laws you will be held guilty of violating all of them. James 2,10

In Christ the function of the law was that of a schoolmaster or guaridan.

Ga 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

It is simply a matter of rightfully handling the word of God, interpreting scripture with scripture.
---lee1538 on 2/6/09


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mima - the Old Testament Sabbath with its burdensome traditions was replaced by the Christian sabbath observed in memory of the resurrection of Christ.

Christ, not a day of the week, became the rest for those who believe - a rest that Israel who lacked faith could not enter.

Hebrews 4:2-3 For we also have received the good news just as they did, but the message they heard did not benefit them, since they were not united with those who heard it in faith (for we who have believed enter the rest), in keeping with what He has said: So I swore in My anger, they will not enter My rest.
---lee1538 on 2/6/09


The statement by Lee,
"Jesus did not come to repudiate the 10 commandments. If He did He would be repudiating His own word" is correct.
Not only are the 10 Commandments the word of Jesus they were also fulfilled (kept) by Jesus. And because no man except Jesus was or is capable of keeping the 10 Commandments, it his is keeping of the 10 Commandments that is accounted for us!!!
We are standing before Almighty God in the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ because our righteousness stinks to high heaven!!!
---mima on 2/6/09


"It is obvious from any casual study of early church history that the Sabbath as well as other laws that were strictly Jewish were not imposed on the Gentile church."

Actually, two historians from the 5th century record that most Christians were keeping the Sabbath. Secondly, the Sabbath was made for man at Creation, long before there ever was a Jew. Third, the Bible records that the Sabbath will be kept in the new earth.
---djconklin on 2/6/09


Lee are you not contradicted by the words of Jesus (Matt. 5:17-20 when He says we cannot break any of the commandments?

Vs 19 'Anyone who breaks any one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the Kingdom of heaven.'

Are you saying we can break them?

Do we just ask for salvation and then live as it pleases us Lee?
---Warwick on 2/5/09


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*Jesus did not come to repudiate the 10 commandments. If He did He would be repudiating His own word.

It is obvious from any casual study of early church history that the Sabbath as well as other laws that were strictly Jewish were not imposed on the Gentile church.

Jesus effectively summarized the principles behind the 10 commandments in that you should love the Lord thy God with all heart, mind, & soul AND your neighbor as yourself.


He looked not at the external commandments but at what should lie within the heart.
---lee1538 on 2/5/09


**The Torah instructs us that males have to be circumcised, as well as observe all Jewish rites.

The Law spoken by YHUH at Sinai and again in Moab was not Jewish, but Hebrew/Israeli. There is a difference. There was also a mixed multitude that obey the Torah.

**In deriving doctrine from O/T are we not disregarding the decisions of the Jerusalem council that Gentiles need not become Jewish and observe Mosaic laws - specifically laws that were strictly Jewish?

Strictly Jewish is called Oral Torah. THe mosaic law is not jewish.

**And are we not under the New Covenant instead of the Old? Hebrews 8:13

Hebrews is referring to the sacrifice which was once required a lamb but now is fulfilled by Yahshua.
---meira on 2/5/09


Leslie is right. Jesus did not come to repudiate the 10 commandments. If He did He would be repudiating His own word.

We are not saved by the ten commandments, no one ever was as they are there to show how far we are from God's standard.

If Jesus did away with them can we break them?
---Warwick on 2/5/09


Charles - You are WRONG. The Holy Spirit ALWAYS lines up with ALL of the Bible (including the 10 Commandments). Jesus did NOT come to do away with the 10 Commandments, but to FULFILL them. Jesus NEVER once said that He or the Holy Spirit being followed is license to break the 10 Commandments, or that we do not need to follow the 10 Commandments if we are following Him or the Holy Spirit. In fact, Jesus said the opposite, that if we break ANY of the 10 Commandments or encourage others to do the same, we do NOT belong to Him (Matthew 5:17-20). Read your Bible.
---Leslie on 2/5/09


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Charles, you wrote all who believe have the Holy Ghost. The question I have is all who believe what?

You also wrote this causes them to speak in tongues, which is in direct contradiction of what is written in 1 Corinthians Chapter 12, and is doing what is written Romans 1:25, which is EXCHANGING GOD'S TRUTH for the LIES OF SATAN.
---Rob on 2/5/09


we are not under the ten COmmandents but the Law of the Holy GHost,
Romans 10, 4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

all who believe have the Holy GHost that cause them to speak in tongues.

Galtions 5, 22

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

(against the Holy GHost there is no 10 commandments. or sabbath day

ROmans 8, 9
if you don't have the hOly GHost you do not belong to God,
---Charles on 2/5/09


Scripture must be used to explain scripture. Exodus states it is one day. JESUS while on earth kept one day and warned people on how to keep it properly.

Lee Name calling is usually a sign of desperation.
---Samuel on 2/5/09


Jews use a lunar system. their new day starts with the nightfall. so halfway the jewish day would be morning to us. the new day starts at evening. so when evening came and morning came,, a new day makes completaly sense to Jews (the old testament was primarally written for jews you know)hristians use a Solar system so theyr new da starts with a morning.remember the seventh day is from friday eve until saterday eve. not sterday, not sunday. sincve im a pagan believer i jeep myself to the rules stated in the new testament
1 i do not eat food sacrificed to idols
2 i do not eat the blood
3 i abstain of all kinds of adultery or sexual immorality.
---Andy on 2/5/09


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Lee: "Sorry that you guys have the monkey of religion on your back as you really have to bow to that authority, often leaving your brains at the door."

Thanks for the kind words. Your remarks do indeed show your true character. You consider our religion (Christianity) a "monkey on our backs." If it is so, then it is a burden I proudly bear. As for your religion, it is but a blind faith adherence to the errant doctrines of mere men.

As for brains, even a child can understand that "the evening and the morning were the first (, etc.) day" refers to a 24-hour period - nothing more!

I think that you have degenerated into name-calling in order to get this blog cancelled.
---jerry6593 on 2/5/09


Lee you work hard, persistently, to undermine the straight-forward meaning of Genesis.

I will spell it out more simply.

The lexicon says that Genesis 1:5 'defines' 24hr day. It DOES not say it says 24hr day but that the very wording defines only one time period-24hr day.

I ask again: If I said I will return on the seventh day who would ask-how long are your days?'

I ask again: Can you show where evening & morning is used to signify other than 24hr day?

Yes it is interesting Genesis 1:5 says an earth-rotation 24hr day begins with evening. Exactly what middle eastern people say and live by e.g. The Jewish Sabbath begins on Friday night.

I wonder where they got this from?
---Warwick on 2/4/09


Warwick - *The standard Hebrew-Aramaic (dictionary)lexicon (Koehler & Baumgartner)says that 'day' in Genesis 1:5 is 'a day of 24 hrs.'

The Hebrew on Genesis 1:5 simply states "And the evening was, and the morning was". Treasury of Scripture Knowledge commentary - nothing about any 24 hour duration.

What is interesting is that the 'evening' comes before the 'morning'.
---lee1538 on 2/4/09


Warwick - *The standard Hebrew-Aramaic (dictionary)lexicon (Koehler & Baumgartner)says that 'day' in Genesis 1:5 is 'a day of 24 hrs.'

The Hebrew on Genesis 1:5 simply states "And the evening was, and the morning was". Treasury of Scripture Knowledge commentary - nothing about any 24 hour duration.

What is interesting is that the 'evening' comes before the 'morning'.
---lee1538 on 2/4/09


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jerry -*And just how long is YOUR work week, Lee? LOL!

I am retired so I really do not have a work week.

It used to be about 50 to 60 hours per week when I was a system analyst, but that was only on my major job.
---lee1538 on 2/4/09


Lee-deceit!

I have not said 'evening and morning' doesn't define 24hr day.

I asked a question:If I said I will return on the seventh day who would ask-how long are your days?'

I ask another: can you show where evening & morning is used to signify other than 24hr day?

The definition of a day of 24hrs has already been pointed out on numerous occasions,but ignored by you for non-Biblical reasons.

The definition in English, and in other languages of 24hr day-jour-tag-yom etc is to use the word with a numeral either 1,2,3 or 1st,2nd,3rd.

The standard Hebrew-Aramaic (dictionary)lexicon (Koehler & Baumgartner)says that 'day' in Genesis 1:5 is 'a day of 24 hrs.'
---Warwick on 2/4/09


Thank you Jerry & Warwick for accepting the fact that 'evenings & mornings' is not a good definition for a 'day' as there was no 'evening & morning' for the 7th 'day'.

The dictionary definition of 'day' would indicate that such could be of undetermined duration.

Sorry that you guys have the monkey of religion on your back as you really have to bow to that authority, often leaving your brains at the door.
---lee1538 on 2/4/09


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