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14 Kids And No Husband

The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week conceived all 14 of her children through in vitro fertilization, she has never been married. Is this ethical?

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 ---Becky on 1/31/09
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Did any of you think you'd pray for this mother or is because it's best to Criticise her?

Jam 2:6
But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
---Carla3939 on 4/29/09

I read through all the postings on this topic before deciding whether or not to throw in my 2 cents.

Yes, I believe it is a sad situation and the end result will be probably removing the children to homes that can adequately care for each of these children.

However, regardless of the action, the sum involved, resources available, it still does not give us the right to look down our noses and cast judgment on this woman. Why not instead pray for her and those children and perhaps help take positive action to help rather than negative contemplation.

What would the Lord say to us regarding this?
---Lesla3685 on 3/31/09

No it is not ethical. Furthermore, the woman was obviously thinking about herself, and not the children she already had, nor the new babies. Seems to me she either has mental problems or is demon-possessed. I feel sorry for all of her children. They all need love and individual attention, how will they get individual attention when there are so many of them? Of course it will take a lot of money to raise them.
---Betty on 2/18/09

"No" Trish, the young lady I refered too is not on disability. I've talked with her and worked with her boyfriend, and the only disability either of them has is "stupity" in the area of birth control. Granted, their are vailed claims for using welfare and it's associated programs, but taking advantage of them is another matter.
---wivv on 2/17/09

This chick is one sick puppy. She's had plastic surgery on her face and was sporting a $45. nail job when she was interviewed by Curry.
But she can still somehow reconcile within herself being on food stamps and public assistance.

One of her other children is autistic, I pray these babies are fine but multiple births brings in a whole new set of problems.

She needs prayer as do all these children.
---NV_Barbara on 2/12/09

The mother was a mental health tech in a mental hospital a few years ago and there was a riot among the patients. A chair was thrown and it hit her in the back. She has been receiving workers' comp since then due to back problems. Wonder how carrying eight babies aggravated that back problem? If this isn't milking the system, I don't know what is.
---SusieB on 2/9/09


No, there is no difference at all. Making a unilateral choice to take on a responsibility, and then relying on other people to take care of that responsibility for you (because you can't or won't) is like walking into a restaurant, ordering a meal, and expecting someone else to pay. It's irresponsible, presumptuous, and rude, among many other things wrong with it.
---StrongAxe on 2/9/09

To all who read my last post wrong: When I told Wivv about disability vs. welfare, I was NOT referring to the Mom of the octuplets. I was referring to the 18 year old mother he mentioned in his post prior to mine.

The mom of the octuplets has more issues than a subscription to Motherhood magazine. Not sure what to say about her. I saw the clip of her interview with the Today show's Ann Curry, and could not believe what I saw.

Darlene: She plans to pursue a Masters in Counseling, which is extremely different than a Masters in Social Work.

My advice to the mother of all those kids is that she seek therapy for herself before she ever attempts a career counseling others.
---Trish9863 on 2/8/09

Trish ... I feel you leap too quickly to assume the "young lady" is innocent of milking the system.

It seems to me that if she has a disability ... it is only that of being stupid.
---alan8566_of_UK on 2/8/09

Trish I saw her on TV and straight from her mouth she said she will depend on help from family,friends,and her church. She is planning to go back to College this fall and get her Masters in Social Work /Counseling.
I don't know about ethics from her but I think it is wrong for any doctor to allow a young,single woman without any means of support to produce that many children. It is irresponsible on his part. There is a real possibility some of the eight will have disabilities or so a doctor said of them due to the premature births. The estimate for hospital for the births is One to three million dollars,that is just the beginning. How could any rational human being think others will help out with the amount of money those children will need ?
---Darlene_1 on 2/8/09

Wivv: There are a lot of people on this site that think all types of assistance from the government is welfare. That is not so. Disability is not welfare. It is possible that the young lady to whom you are referring is collecting just that. Disability is not from the welfare budget but from the Social Security budget, and it is only available to people who qualify based on health.

Before you pass judgment, it might help if you learned the source of this young lady's funds.
---Trish9863 on 2/7/09

What I can't wait to see is when this woman files a lawsuit against her Doctor for child support. I hope she reads this and does it. Someone get this message to her. Maybe I'll get a 10% finders fee.
---Elder on 2/8/09

Trish9863 On paper, you may be correct - but only on paper. In reality, I've seen people get around this rule very easily. Only an honest person abides by this rule. Like most rules in the welfare area, it can be altered with no problem. For example: I know of a 20 year old who has a girlfriend of 18 who had a baby at 15 by another man and one by her currant boyfriend. She only has a 6th grade education and does not plan on getting more. She gets all types of welfare help, and does not plans on doing anything to get off of welfare and has been told she doesn't have too.
---wivv on 2/7/09

There are plenty of "unmarried" women who have numerous children due to careless or faulty birth control. That's bad enough.

But to be single, infertile, and use extraordinary and expensive methods to conceive...not once...not twice...but 7 nearly inexcusable. There is no law preventing her physician from facilitating this, but it certainly isn't standard practice. I wonder if her physician could be charged with malpractice? Suit would have to be brought by the state or her parents I guess,(whoever supports her) and that isn't likely.
---Donna66 on 2/6/09


She got an insurance settlement and conceived the children with it, but can it support 15 people for 18 years until they are old enough to go to college?

Stongaxe honestly who cares!!!!'

is it ANY DIFFERENT for this women than professing "christians" who have more than 10 kids and then go to their churches for funds and handouts to support their families???

my point isn't whether it is wrong or right but many "christians" do this too is absurd whether one is Christian or NOT to be a baby factory why call her out

at any rate at the VERY least she didn't have sexual relations with 8 or so DIFFERENT guys like MANY welfare mothers do today :)
---Rhonda on 2/6/09

Oops! 14 kids, not 12. What a sick woman she is to be so obsessed with having children that she cannot provide for. Although it appears that she is educated, she is no more intelligent than any other typical welfare mother.
---SusieB on 2/6/09

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Let's see the math! Five years of raising 12 kids. How much does the State of California pay per child now days? How much in food stamps is the limit now days? And, of course, there is the dear old Medical/Medicaid which will pay for these childrens' health problems. Welfare may end after five years, but Medical/Medicaid will not end. I still say this woman will never raise these kids.
---SusieB on 2/4/09


She got an insurance settlement and conceived the children with it, but can it support 15 people for 18 years until they are old enough to go to college?

Meanwhile, why is she living with her parents, instead of independently by herself, as any indepent adult capable of taking care of herself would do? Because either she already can't afford to do so, or taking care of 6 children is already so much of a burden that she needs help from her parents (who inherited the burden of caring for her kids without their own consent in the matter). In either case, she isn't capable of caring for the kids herself.

Of course, now that she has her 15 minutes of fame, perhaps she can get enough money from people like Oprah.
---StrongAxe on 2/4/09

WIVV: A welfare mom can only play the system for five years now. After that, she is off welfare and must get a job.
---Trish9863 on 2/4/09

She's playing the system. Having been raised in the welfare system, I know a system player when I see one - and she is a player. Ethics does not even have a part in this because she is not considering the ethics - only how she can get money from this. The people who should be considered resonsible for this are in the medical sector, they should have had more ethics since it's a given she has none, at least in this case.
---wivv on 2/4/09

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...poor soul spent the money given her in a settlement in apparently a personal injury claim to conceive all these children

she SPENT HER OWN MONEY conceiving without having multiple sexual relations with men she will profit ....Is it MORE ethical being less of "poor pathetic soul" having sexual relations with MANY men WITH 5 or more children with DIFFERENT fathers? ...In US we have MANY thousands of women who do this --- it's called social system of WELFARE

TAX dollars hard at work supporting the mother and her bastard children with different fathers

at least this women will be making money to support her kids it her fault America has become a whore for reality garbage???
---Rhonda on 2/4/09

I think it's twisted.
---Pharisee on 2/3/09

I do not know her personally. Socially ethical . . . not IF she is not ready to give the needed personal attention to each child. Psychiatrically ethical > is she a psychiatric example who is fit to be influencing the development emotional of fourteen kids? Medically ethical > no, assuming it was inadvisable and not in her best interest to be provided medical means to produce fourteen kids. B-u-t > I don't know her personally. She can get help, and maybe she financially planned on publicity to get her money. Pro-life people have promised to help unwed mothers who keep their children, haven't they (o: Here's their chance (o:
---Bill_bila5659 on 2/3/09

The mother of these children has some serious issues, and needs more than physical help with the kids, but psychological help as well.**

This poor soul spent the money given her in a settlement in apparently a personal injury claim to conceive all these children to start with, now she's hired an agent to sell her story to the media (books, movies, tv) for millions of dollars.

It looks to me like she's craving attention as much as anything else.
---katavasia on 2/3/09

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Tommy I do not disagree with your statement. I believe it has to do with the fact that we cannot expect the doctors or this woman to behave in a Biblical manner, BUT, people should be able to expect doctors to behave ethically. The problem in the USA is that the laws do not really address the fertility practices too much, and as such, this single mother was able to give birth to 14 children while not having a home for them to live. The doctors should be limited in this matter.

If she were single and having children by way of sex, it would have taken her much longer to come up with that many children, and hopefully, she would have gotten help before having more than a couple of kids.
---Trish9863 on 2/3/09

I don't see where the problem is, without Biblical reference there is no ground for "ethical limits". Apart from God in heaven we don't tend to care about "ethics" To me, ethics and Bible are the same thing. The problem lies in trying to separate our dailu activities from the Bible, which I don't believe to be possible. This is my thought on this, if anyone disagrees, that's fine, but why waste space debating any further?
---tommy3007 on 2/3/09

Strongaxe: I totally agree that this issue is a medical ethicist's nightmare, from start to finish. There is little, if any, regulation of this industry.

My point was that, if someone wants to discuss the moral/Biblical side of it, that is one thing, that would definitely be a worthy discussion. However, the OP was about the ethics, which would have to do with the medical professionals involved.

Doctors don't have to follow scripture to be ethical. Hopefully, the lawmakers will see this, and bring about some regulations since the doctors really dropped the ball on this one.

The mother of these children has some serious issues, and needs more than physical help with the kids, but psychological help as well.
---Trish9863 on 2/3/09


It isn't that the woman first had six children, and then later the doctors gave her fertility drugs. Rather, they first gave her fertility drugs and she conceived a whole lot of embryos and had six of them implanted, and had the rest frozen. Later, she decided to have the other 8 implanted instead of letting them just languish in a freezer (or worse, flush them down the drain).

On the other hand, choosing to implant those 8 additional embroys WAS irresponsible for the woman (and also for the doctors who allowed it), seeing how she couldn't even support herself and her first 6 children, and now that has 14, there's now way she could possibly hold down a job - so the burden of raising the kids will fall on the taxpayers.
---StrongAxe on 2/3/09

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I believe that the world will soon find out what this woman's real motives were. I also believe that the State of California will soon step in a put an end to this fiasco.
---SusieB on 2/2/09

It seems to me that most people of today are doing just what they want to do. And with no regard to God or for God. If I can do it and get away with it, I'll do it. How nice that must be. Am I envious? No! Because I am not here to please myself but to please God.
---catherine on 2/2/09

Tommy: Medicine has ethics, and the doctors who were involved in the infertility treatments behaved in a very unethical manner. Whether it is Biblical or not is not the issue, because doctors do not take the Hippocratic oath to uphold the Bible, but to "First Do No Harm." In my opinion, providing a single mother of six children who lives with her parents with fertility drugs is totally unethical, from the standpoint of the Hippocratic oath.

The Biblical issue is a separate discussion, which I agree should also be discussed, but this question was not asking Biblical, but ethical. Unbelieving doctors may not care if something they do is Biblical, but they can lose their licenses if they behave in an unethical manner.
---Trish9863 on 2/2/09

Tommy ... if you go down that route, you would absolve any persons who is not a Believer from adhering to ethical rules.
---alan8566_of_UK on 2/2/09

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Trish9863- If it isn't Biblical, then it surely isn't "ethical" unless you get your ethics from somewhere other than the Bible. I stand by my previous answer. If it doesn't sit well with you, I'm sorry, but, you aren't the moderator and I am not the only person to answer a blog with a response other than what the question was about.
---tommy3007 on 2/2/09

**This world is going to be filled with freaks.**

It already is. Haven't you noticed?
---katavasia on 2/2/09

No, No! And people had better quit trying to play at being God, too. This world is going to be filled with freaks.
---catherine on 2/1/09

This is a single woman in her early 30's, has never been married.

According to news articles, her parents advised against her having more children.
Her mother states that she won't be helping her out with the children, she and her father totally disapprove of this woman's activities.

All children were a result of in vetro with a 'doner dad'.
---Becky on 2/1/09

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No. This is NOT good.

Yes, children are a miracle. A gift from
God. However, are the children's parents
prepared to assume responsibility for the
children's upbringing? The fact that
the parents are not married to each other
often points to future problems for the
children. Look at how Ishmael and his
descendants turned out in the Middle East.
Many of them are now actively fighting for
Israel's demise. Not pleasing to God.

Ask any parent if raising just 1 child is expensive. In terms of money and emotional
pressure. Raising 14 children is going to be a big job that most people couldn't even imagine.

We can only pray that God will help this unmarried mother and her 14 children.
---Augie on 2/1/09

Just like the Dion Quintuplets of the 1930s they will become a tourist attraction and make a great deal of money,probably sponsored by Baby food companies Diaper companies and the like..She hit the jackpot!
---1st_cliff on 2/1/09

I have not read this case but saw bits on the news, however I had a friend that lived up the road to me she was my best friend at scholl to be percise and she had 14 family members, her father died and the mother rasied all 14 without a hitch no job either!
---Carla5754 on 2/1/09

If she is a multi-millionaire with a large house that has 3 or 4 bathrooms and can pay the water bill every month after all of the showers, baths, flushes, laundry, cooking and drinking water while clothing and feeding 14 children and keeping a healthy (many germs with 14 children) household, then the most you could say is that she is mentally unstable and inhumanly selfish. Especially in this economy, this never should have been allowed by the "in vitro" companies (GROSSLY unethical).

Child services will probably remove at least half a dozen children (if the children are healthy enough to survive from the hospital).

Proper medical care is another nightmare.

The children's emotional needs and attention...???
---more_excellent_way on 2/1/09

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No, It is NOT Biblical. God intended for a man and a woman to be joined as husband and wife to raise children together. All of this other business is just man trying to take God's authority away from Him and wanting to be sovereign over his own life. In Vitro fertilization is man taking science and trying to play God.
tommy3007 on 1/31/09

Tommy answered the question prefectly right.
---Carla5754 on 2/1/09

I think I have to revise my original thoughts somewhat. I would say the same had this been the woman's first children.

But to have 7 already, and then go through artificial processes to have more does seem to indicate she has some mental problems.
---alan8566_of_UK on 2/1/09

Ethics as "a complex of moral precepts held or rules of conduct followed by an individual:" Is a matter of individual conscience. Without a direct word from the Father, good and evil, moral or immoral are at best vague ambiguous concepts one establishes within oneself based on what is perceived, conceived or conformed to as qualifying as such and will be based on one's sensual perceptions, ethical background or culture. Jesus was not concerned with prescribing the externals of moral conduct. Instead He directed attention to the inward motive or spirit that determines the outward act. I can not know her heart, and choose not to judge her actions. If she likes it, I love it for her.
---joseph on 2/1/09

Many physicians would consider her fertility treatment unethical. The implantation of embryos is a godsend to couples who are physically unable to conceive. But what possible good can come from enabling a single unmarried mother of 6 children to have more, whether one or eight. This woman's doctor reasoned, "Who am I to decide if a child or chilren should be born?"

She lives with her parents, who backed her decision. But my question is, how did she afford this treatment that costs thousands of dollars each time, even if it fails. (The media didn't pay for it, I'm sure) Who is paying the hospital bill for 8 babies in NICU? (probably not the media).If the taxpayers are footing this bill, to me, it's very unethical.
---Donna66 on 1/31/09

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Tommy: Becky's question was NOT if it is Biblical, BUT if it is ethical. Answer what is asked.
---Trish9863 on 1/31/09

No, It is NOT Biblical. God intended for a man and a woman to be joined as husband and wife to raise children together. All of this other business is just man trying to take God's authority away from Him and wanting to be sovereign over his own life. In Vitro fertilization is man taking science and trying to play God.
---tommy3007 on 1/31/09

No! It is neither ethical or morally correct. It is self-centeredness to the highest degree. It is obvious that this woman has some mental health issues. Who do you suppose is footing the bill for the hospital and medical bills??? How does a fertility clinic do something like this without a lot of money involved? This almost sounds like some kind of scientific experiment gone horribly wrong.
---SusieB on 1/31/09

I saw a medical ethicist interviewed last night and he said that her pregnancy and the births of her octuplets raised several ethical questions. The problem is that the area of fertility drugs and such pregnancies is not regulated by the government, and as such, we may be seeing more of these types of stories in the future.

The good news is, she was offered the opportunity to have reduction by selection, where they would abort several fetuses, and she chose not to. She is obviously pro-life.
---Trish9863 on 1/31/09

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Two issues there.

In vitro fertilisation? ... to me no ethical problem if the biological father is her husband or partner. But the sheer number of children could cause practical, medical & social problems for them and the children.

I should not imagine they will have financial problems, because they will get a fortune from the media!

Not married? If it is her permanent partner, not an ethical problem (except it does not meet our Christian standards), but social and practical problems may arise for them or children.
---alan8566_of_UK on 1/31/09

While the behavior of this young woman does not appear to be ethical through the eyes of other mothers, we are not to judge. The judgement is the Lord's and only His. I want to wish this young woman all of the blessings that the Lord can bestow upon her and pray that she will bring these children up to be Godly people.
---Merriel_A._Blyler on 1/31/09

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