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Does Purgatory Exist

Does Purgatory exist? I have been told by my church (RC), I can go there and get cleansed first before going on ahead to heaven. I need to know the truth!

Moderator - No Purgatory doesn't exist. It is appointed for a man to die once and then there is judgement.

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No! there is no such place as "purgatory"
When one dies, one will either come up from
the grave, at th first resurrection, to be rewarded with immortality or one will come up from the grave,at the second resurrection to be punishd with the 2nd death, which is equal to our complete destruction.
There is no such place "in-between" where you can get right with God AFTER you die. Now is the time to hear his call and to answer positively!
---Pierr5358 on 6/18/09


No! there is no such place as "purgatory"
When one dies, one will either come up from
the grave, at th first resurrection, to be rewarded with immortality or one will come up from the grave,at the second resurrection to be punishd with the 2nd death, which is equal to our complete destruction.
There is no such place "in-between" where you can get right with God AFTER you die. Now is the time to hear his call and to answer positively!
---Pierr5358 on 6/18/09


Natalie2:-There was even a JUDAS (betrayer) amongst Jesus Apostles.What was HIS FATE? "By their fruit you will know them.You are a dauntless lady.<:-)Jesus said "I know mine and mine know me"
---MIC on 4/24/09


Do you remember when Jesus said, "Unto Your hands I commit My Spirit" Jesus gave up the Spirit at His physical death. And since Jesus is God in spirit the theif could be with Him that day.

---MarkV. on 4/24/09

"Today you will join me in paradise.
Unless you want to call Heaven paradise!

Commit:to give in trust or charge, consign.

Please read Psalm 31:5 and Psalm 22:

Jesus is clearly quoting scriptures!
---Ruben on 4/24/09


Ruben, by your statement you are declaring that Jesus is not God. Here is what you said, "Would you be so kind to tell me then, if Jesus did not ascend to Heaven until 40 days later where the thief went? Unless you are saying he went to Heaven before Jesus did!
---Ruben on 4/23/09 "

Do you remember when Jesus said, "Unto Your hands I commit My Spirit" Jesus gave up the Spirit at His physical death. And since Jesus is God in spirit the theif could be with Him that day.
Are have you stopped believing Jesus is God? All Catholics should still believe in the Trinity. Unless that too is been replaced by some other tradition.
---MarkV. on 4/24/09




I grew up in the Catholic Religion..Purgatory was invented as a way of income for the monks.--Barb

What Monks did you live by that you paid money for your own prayers for the souls in Purgators?
Name the Community?
I am going to REPORT THEM! Don't cover up for them.

You might grown up with being known as Catholic. But, you did not practice your faith as a Catholic.
I can tell by your own post.

Why do fall away Catholics think their words are on higher merits because they use to practice some of their faith?
A Catholic who knows their faith would never leave.
All fallen away Catholics are Catholics who didn't know their own faith.
If you did you wouldn't make such odd claims as some do on this websites.
---Natalie2 on 4/23/09


The Bible as The Source of Truth,
Jesus said to the fellow on the cross,you'll be with me in heaven this very day.
Now,He didn't say there was a stop over on the way.
---Barb on 4/23/09


Would you be so kind to tell me then, if Jesus did not ascend to Heaven until 40 days later where the thief went? Unless you are saying he went to Heaven before Jesus did!
---Ruben on 4/23/09


Mark :-No sooner do I answer one of your spurious questions you invent another. The RCC IS THE GOSPEL of His word that is why it is universal. Matt16:13-19 was HIS nominated foundation.Dont you read or overlook?.To maintain that holiness one must not sin.False accusation against ones neighbour is a sin.So you automatically loose that gift you were Given.This is where the FOLLOW ME comes in to reach Perfection.But My Friend you left His Church so you are on your own at the mercy of Wolves in Sheeps clothing.BEING FORGIVEN means,"I will not sin again "otherwise the sin Remains.and this leaves you still in the pickle of SIN.REPENT-Confession awaits you.
---MIC on 4/23/09


If you study the history of the Catholic Church(I grew up in the Catholic Religion)
Purgatory was invented as a way of income for the monks.
They got payed for prayers.
The Bible as The Source of Truth,
Jesus said to the fellow on the cross,you'll be with me in heaven this very day.
Now,He didn't say there was a stop over on the way.
---Barb on 4/23/09


RebeccaD, Rev 6:10-11 They cried out in a loud voice, "How long will it be, holy and true Master, before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?" Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to be patient a little while longer until the number was filled of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been.

No converting going on. They are asking God to take action and avenge against the people who killed them.

They are not asking God to convert the inhabitants (living).

Fellow Servants are already converted.
They have to wait until their fellow servants are killed by the inhabitants as they were killed.

YOU ARE SPINNING.
---Natalie2 on 4/23/09




Mic, the first sign of a church leaving the gospel of Jesus is when it institutes idols into the church. When traditions of man is introduced on an equal footing with the Word of God, the inevitable corruption occurs. Only God's Word reveals God's will for all His people. Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35). And in Hebrews 10:10 we are told, "we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Christ once for all" Because we are made holy by a holy God, there is no need for purgatory.
If you are forgiven why would you need to go to purgatory? The Bible says, "Once for all" don't worry Mic, you have Anne/DDM, Susie..etc, preaching the same gospel. A gospel of works.
---MarkV. on 4/23/09


Because in Revelation 11:3 it tells us that God will be sending two witnesses on earth to warn people about God's wrath. These two witnesses will be Enoch and Elijah.---Rebecca_D on 4/20/09

Please, I am not some weak Catholic that you can spin the Bible on me. We both know exactly what the Bible states.
We both can read.

Rev 11:3: how are you going to add to Scripture? It never states Enoch and Elijah. What Bible are you reading?

You make your interpretions as Passages.
You can't do that.

The 2 witness might be Moses and Elijah, Peter and Paul and etc.
State when it is an opinion.
Not as if you know for sure. Thats adding.
---Natalie2 on 4/22/09


I never said that Moses didn't die.--Rebecca_D

Please read your own words.
Your trouble is that you want others to take opinions or interpretions of facts instead of the FACTS.

You did say he DIDN'T died and then changed to that he did DIED!!:

Moses and Elijah didn't die before Jesus. Moses died before crossing over into the promise land in the Old Testament.--Rebecca_D 4/8/09

So now you want me to take an opinion that you didn't say he died.

Why do you act as if I making stuff up?

Read your post and tell me you are not saying he didn't die and say he died with only 3 words between them.
The Jews crossed the promised land with Jacobs leading them.
All that happened before Jesus entered History.
---Natalie2 on 4/22/09


Mark:-I am sorry you left the RCC.I still say Jesus said "FOLLOW ME"But you insist that The RCC,is following Mary.THIS IS A LIE.for your selfsatisfaction.MARY points the way to her son and the theme of the Mass, throughout the world is all about Jesus's offering to the Father, which is pleasing to Him."this is my Beloved son in whom I am well pleased"so you in essence are spreading FALSE DOCTRINE.Again you deny Gods word by ignoring Matt16:13-19 which gave rise to the inception of the RCC, JESUS CHURCH not mine, RCC,the POPES, and definitly Not Yours. BUT truely JESUS's Church "as the Gates of hell shall not prevail against it "WHAT are you doing prevailing against.Reconsider your status.
---MIC on 4/22/09


Mic, Sorry, God does not give half Truths. All of His Word is Truth.
You say, "Jesus said follow Me" What you forget is that the RCC is following Mary and the saint's. They have abandon Christ for another. And again you say, "He who is not with Me is against Me" The RCC changed that to mean, "Those who are not in the RCC church are against Christ" That is not what it means at all. All those who follow another are enemies of Christ.
The atoning death of Christ is sufficient to save anyone. It does not need any suppliments from man as your church teaches. No one can earn his way into heaven. Once you die, it is all over. Mic, Commit to Christ, or stay commited to your Church.
---MarkV. on 4/22/09


People this,Forum is meant to display Gods word and His interpretations for the benefit of those who come here to discuss.If the subject does not suit you then leave do not disrupt with innundoes, The question of Purgatory and the practices of RCC are put here to help not Force people to accept.IF one does not understand you have the right to question.But to come right out and insult is a bit Much.Then only is sword met with steel.Respect begets respect.
---MIC on 4/21/09


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Ruben by this statement,
"Purgatory is not a second chance , you just need to be cleanse because nothing unclean enter Heaven". Are you saying that the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ is not sufficient to wash away our sins?

---mima on 4/21/09

Of course it is, however as scripture tell us, sin still clings to us(christians) (Heb 12:1) and no sin enter heaven (Rev 21:27),there must be a purification that takes place after one's death and before one's enter Heaven. Paul's writes about this 1 Cor 3:15 " "Each mans work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it,...... If any mans work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire."
---Ruben on 4/21/09


Ruben by this statement,
"Purgatory is not a second chance , you are on your way to Heaven, you just need to be cleanse because nothing unclean enter Heaven". Are you saying that the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ is not sufficient to wash away our sins?

---mima on 4/21/09


Mark:-Purgatory 2??where is Purgatory 1?"As we know all believers are saved by grace" This is HALF truth, only those who Protest and spread a false doctrine "What so ever you DO unto these the least of my brethren you do unto ME"Jesus words, Not Marks deductions waiting for a handout!! Jesus said FOLLOW ME, Be Perfect,These words denote ACTION which is WORK"Jesus did those same works.Do you believe Mark or Jesus OUR GOD and saviour who came to show us the way, not the way of one who openly acknowleged Apostacy.like a true Protester."He who is not with me is against me"
---MIC on 4/20/09


Natalie2: Revelation 6:10-11 is telling us that the people who converted over to Christ were being slained because of testimony and when they questioned God how long will this last they were giving white robes and should wait until after all the others that were converted was killed just as they were. These verses are talking about after Christ had come back and was giving people a second chance to convert over to him. Because in Revelation 11:3 it tells us that God will be sending two witnesses on earth to warn people about God's wrath. These two witnesses will be Enoch and Elijah. I never said that Moses didn't die. I said said that he did before going into the Promise land.
---Rebecca_D on 4/20/09


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Purgatory 2: In the opinion of the RCC Purgatory becomes a place where works again are used to permit someone to enter heaven. As we know that all believers are saved by Grace through faith, no one dead can exercise faith while in that state. We were blind and needed to receive sight. We were guilty of sin and needed to be pardoned. We were separated from God and needed to be reconciled. We were dead in sin and needed to be given life. No second chances. It is now that the Lord is calling, do not wait for it will be too late.
---MarkV. on 4/19/09
---MarkV. on 4/20/09


Purgatory is not a second chance , you are on your way to Heaven, you just need to be cleanse because nothing unclean enter Heaven(Rev 21:27)
---Ruben on 4/20/09


MARK:-"Those who are dead but have been living captive to false ideas will have their works (SINS) burnt -A purgimg proces.After that, I hope those who are 'basically good' will be received into God's Kingdom" Frances 4/18/08 Eccellently put together Frances, where is this processs to take place? if as you say there is no PURGATORY, which appears ambigious and contradictory.I will overlook the contradictory issue but you are right on for the rest except you have proved there is this place of Purging and hence disposed of Mark and His innuendoes Theories and False doctrines.Not forgetting, our dear Mische who acknowleges that every one "must" repent like the good thief. What if they dont have the opportunity?
---MIC on 4/20/09


I strongly agree with MarkV postING about purgatory! It is so obvious that to believe in purgatory is to openly deny the efficiency of the Lord Jesus Christ'S work on the cross. Believe in purgatory is an untenable position that surely identifies blind followers of the RCC!!
---mima on 4/20/09


miche3754 * Jesus told the thief that he would be with HIM- Jesus, after he died. The Thief didn't have to be cleansed. He confessed to Christ and was saved.- ruben

Of course he didn't need cleansing. He had confessed to Christ!
That is the proof that purgatory does not exist ruben.
Purgatory is what RCC says cleanses.
Read Markv's post. He is speaking the truth on this.
---miche3754 on 4/20/09


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Purgatory 2: In the opinion of the RCC Purgatory becomes a place where works again are used to permit someone to enter heaven. As we know that all believers are saved by Grace through faith, no one dead can exercise faith while in that state. We were blind and needed to receive sight. We were guilty of sin and needed to be pardoned. We were separated from God and needed to be reconciled. We were dead in sin and needed to be given life. The whole purpose of the atoning death of Jesus was to accomplish this, to bring you to God. None of this can be done after someone dies a physical death. No second chances. It is now that the Lord is calling, do not wait for it will be too late.
---MarkV. on 4/19/09
---MarkV. on 4/20/09


Purgatory does nothing to honor the achievements of Christ's death. Purgatory says in effect that Jesus death did not achieve a full pardon of our sins and that it must be supplimented by suffering in Purgatory. Paul said that Jesus "is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them"(Heb. 7:25.
Also in Hebrews 10:10, we read that, "we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Christ once for all" Because we are made holy by a holy God, there is no need for purgatory. Catholics don't understand what the death of Christ accomplished. As Christians we know that the sins that once awaited punishment have been pardoned.
---MarkV. on 4/19/09


Those who are dead but have been living captive to false ideas, will have their works burnt - a purging process. This won't be pleasant. After that, I hope those who are basically good, but were deceived, will be received into God's Kingdom. There is only Heaven and Hell no purgatory. We have to live a sinless life after receiving Jesus Christ as Lord. If we sin, we must be truly repentant and stop doing it. If we backslide, we must repent immediately.
---frances008 on 4/18/09


The Moderator is right. Purgatory is a lie.
---Eloy on 4/18/09


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Ruben: But where did he go, Jesus stuck around for 40 more days, nowhere in scripture does it mention a thief with Jesus..does it?

Simple, Death couldn't hold Jesus, and He would rise again three days later. The Thief would remain in Heaven. From His point of view there is no Time, and He is with the Lord. You can argue, that they went to the good part of hades as Jesus said tonight you will be with me in Paradise, but Paradise hardly sounds like you are being purified with fire. Burn in Hell, or Burn in Paradise. Sounds like a damned if I do, or damned if I don't. This world is mans proving ground, and heaven the reward.
---Gregg on 4/17/09


miche3754 * Hebrews 9:27
27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment

And that after man dies they are judged.

If nothing unclean enters Heaven, then how do you know they don't get cleansed! In Hebrew 12:23 it reads "To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of men just made perfect


miche3754 * Jesus told the thief that he would be with HIM- Jesus, after he died. The Thief didn't have to be cleansed. He confessed to Christ and was saved.


But where did he go, Jesus stuck around for 40 more days, nowhere in scripture does it mention a thief with Jesus..does it?
---Ruben on 4/17/09


Jesus told the thief on the cross, "Today you shall be with me in Paradise.

I believe folks call Paradise Purgatory and this is not to be so.

Nor is Paradise where the Throne of God dwells.

Paradise is a city that surrounds heaven. People who didn't learn what they were supposed to on earth will go there BEFORE they get into Heaven. Now you're going to argue about what it is they didn't learn on earth. How to live as the Word says to live, in God's will, by God's word, changed into His image, etc., How do I know this? I asked God and he revealed it to me through a testimony I heard and then I searched it out in scripture. I suggest you folks do the same...ask God where Paradise is that Jesus referred to.
---donna8365 on 4/17/09


1 Corinthians 3:11-15 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
---Ruben on 4/16/09

You missed the context of this. God is speaking of what we do HERE. We are tried through the"fire" here. Not purgatory.Miche


But why would God judge our works here on earth, when we are going to be judge according to our works? Paul says in verse 13 "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it , because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is"
---Ruben on 4/17/09


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..Meaning they are not in hell or in heaven. Moses and Elijah didn't die before Jesus. Moses died before crossing---Rebecca_D

How can you tell me the meaning of Scriptures, but I can't? Fair?
I even prove people in Heaven while people on earth Rev 6:10-11
I gave written proofs. You give me what you think is a meaning? WHAT?
I showed people dying before Jesus and appearing again- written proofs. Matthew 17.
You can ignore clear cut Passages, but I must take your opinions?

Ascension means going up to Heaven on ones own merits. Only Jesus acended to Heaven.
Elijah and others needed help to enter Heaven. Which proves he is in Heaven.

You state Moses didn't died and now you say he died within a few words.
---Natalie2 on 4/17/09


Miche:-You had the unloaded Gun.Hence Im still around after 40 days of clarification.<:-)
! Paul is speaking NOT God.He is admonishing the two factions in the church of Corinth,who were dissenting.The Foundation was laid by Jesus and WE are require to build on it. Each will be tested by Fire after completion,Jesus work was HIS church.ARE you building on HIS church or one of your own.Now read V17-18.BTW those who go to Purgatory are cleansed by FIRE.
---MIC on 4/17/09


Paul says these things that do not line up with the theory of purgatory.

2 Corinthians 5:8
8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.


To be Absent from our physical body is to present with our Lord.

Hebrews 9:27
27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment


And that after man dies they are judged. They don't go to purgatory to be cleansed.

Jesus told the thief that he would be with HIM- Jesus, after he died. The Thief didn't have to be cleansed. He confessed to Christ and was saved.
What makes some believe purgatory is anywhere in the NT? or part of CHRIST's teachings?
---miche3754 on 4/17/09


1 Corinthians 3:11-15 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
---Ruben on 4/16/09

You missed the context of this. God is speaking of what we do HERE. We are tried through the"fire" here. Not purgatory.

The trials and tribs we face while in this physical body is how God conforms us to the likeness of Christ.
Paul said for us not to be surprised by trials and tribs here, did he not?
Thank you also for clarifying the 40 days. I just wanted to make sure I understood. Mic, on the other hand jumped the gun when I was just asking for clarification.
---miche3754 on 4/17/09


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Is is possible that the purgatory you speak of is the pleasant side of Hades, Abraham's bosom? Something I am studying a little about right now and I wanted to get feedback. This is where God's followers went before the Jesus' death. The wicked also go to the other side where there is torment. This is like jail before prison for the damned. Many christians believe the just were freed after Christ's death. Could it be that we still go there and we have to wait until Christ's return before we can get into heaven? There are a lot of things in revelation that have always made me wonder.
---Gregg on 4/17/09


Darlene:-Your Bias is beginning to show.
1.God choose a DONKEY for,"The flight into EGYPT"To save the Christ Child.
2Jesus choose a COLT DONKEY for His entry into Jerusalem,at the start of His Passion.
3 The DONKEY is the only animal that bears the mark of Christ's Cross on its back.
4Words fitly spoken are GOD's words of gold in frames of GOLD.
Donkeys may bray but that is their instinsctive way of protesting.They are still Gods creatures.I am not trying to knock your Ma-in- law 0r you.
---MIC on 4/16/09


Mische mische :-You sure are quick on that trigger finger but first make sure the gun is loaded,before you aim at the target.From Jesus's resurrection he stayed "40 days on this earth" before ascending into heaven---NOT PURGATORY!!!You missed RUBEN'S target-oops point
---MIC on 4/16/09


miche3754* This is OT and BEFORE CHRIST died for our sins. Where in the NT does it say that there is still a purgatory? Give scripture please.

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment, whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, "You fool!" shall be liable to the hell of fire

The last sentence should be hell, where is the first two?

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

---Ruben on 4/16/09


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Ruben, where does it say Christ spent 40 days in purgatory? My bible in the NT says 3 days. Then he apeared to Mary M and Apostles then ascended to Heaven. I have seen no where that it says Christ spent 40 days in purgatory.
---miche3754 on 4/16/09


I was speaking of the thief!
---Ruben on 4/16/09


By the way Natalie2,
Maccabees was written when? was put into the Bible when? 1200 years ago?
Funny, the rest of the OT was written at least 100 years BEFORE Christ came.

Have you never questioned WHY it wasn't written along with the other parts of the OT?

By the way, why are you so harsh when people are just asking you to provide proof (the same as you ask of them)?
Ruben isn't harsh. He answers honestly. He dabates he doesn't berate people.

Like I have said, look at what the moderator posted in the blog question. It is Biblical truth. Puragtory does not exist because Christ is the only way NOW! The life the truth and the way!
---miche3754 on 4/16/09


If you pick up a Jewish bible you will search in vain for 2 Maccabees. It is not there. It was in the Septuigent which was a greek Bible that included non canonocanil books that the jews did not add to their Bible. Much like many of the books the early church threw out since the Apostles could not have written them.

So no this passage is not in the bible. It also contridicts other parts of the Bible. But purgatory still makes money for the RCC so they will still keep teaching it.
---Samuel on 4/16/09


We have!!! 2 Maccabees 12:38-46
It has been in the Bible for 1200 years for everyone until Luther threw it out in the 16th century. It is still in the Bible for Orthodoxs and Catholics.
Our Bible never changed unlike yours.
---Natalie2 on 4/9/09

This is OT and BEFORE CHRIST died for our sins. Where in the NT does it say that there is still a purgatory? Give scripture please.

Ruben, where does it say Christ spent 40 days in purgatory? My bible in the NT says 3 days. Then he apeared to Mary M and Apostles then ascended to Heaven. I have seen no where that it says Christ spent 40 days in purgatory.
---miche3754 on 4/16/09


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Donna 8365,you're welcome and thank you. I love to see the Word of God given to back up what is being said because if we don't stand on the Word we don't have a leg to stand on. Raw emotion never taught anyone anything except how to fight. My Mother-in-law always said "never let a child ride a donkey,all it does is teach them to cuss" thats due to a donkey being so stubborn it won't move and causes anger and frustration. In the case of exchanging opinions that can provoke anger also Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness,anger,clamour,and evil speaking be put away from you,with all malice. James 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Proverbs 25:11 A Word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.
---Darlene_1 on 4/9/09


No there isn't any purgatory. If there had been Jesus wouldn't have told the thief on the cross this day you will be with me in Paradise Luke 23:43. Paradise means Garden of God,where the tree of life is found, Revelations 2:7 . If there was purgatory he would have said your're going to purgatory first but when you fully get cleansed then you'll be with me in Paradise.
---Darlene_1 on 4/6/09

Jesus after three days did not ascend until 40 days later, so maybe he did get cleansed! Unless you are saying the thief went to heaven first before Jesus did!
---Ruben on 4/9/09


If there was purgatory he would have said your're going to purgatory first but when you fully get cleansed then you'll be with me in Paradise.---Darlene_1

Not everyone has to go to Purgatory first before going to heaven. So, why would Jesus tell EVERYONE they go to purgatory first?
Some go to Heaven directly after death. As some go to Hell directly after death.

Folks - don't argue. Just back up your opinion with a scripture. Tell where it's written in scirpture.--donna8365

We have!!! 2 Maccabees 12:38-46
It has been in the Bible for 1200 years for everyone until Luther threw it out in the 16th century. It is still in the Bible for Orthodoxs and Catholics.
Our Bible never changed unlike yours.
---Natalie2 on 4/9/09


I can't believe how people got onto the subject of Mary by a question asked about Purgatory!! Sheesh, the devil must be laughing at us.

I looked to see if Darlene1 answered because I know she backs everything up with scripture and I do the same - she is correct in her answer. Thank you Darlene1.

At least someone is walking in the truth of God's word.

Folks - don't argue. Just back up your opinion with a scripture. Tell where it's written in scirpture. Do we forget how Jesus fought satan in the wilderness? WITH THE WORD?????? right? Yeppers!!!! Bless you!!! I do love you all .
---donna8365 on 4/8/09


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Natalie2: The bible says the dead will wait until their change comes. Meaning they are not in hell or in heaven because God says no one has ascended up into heaven except for the one who came down from heaven, which is Jesus Christ. As states in the book of Job, because Job asked God after a man die, where do they go? Moses and Elijah didn't die before Jesus. Moses died before crossing over into the promise land in the Old Testament. Elijah didn't die for God took him up in a whirlwind. The dead have returned? Moses may have appeared to Christ, which was prophesied by God in the Old Testament. I too gave you scriptures and yet you refuse to understand.
---Rebecca_D on 4/8/09


Mark :-There is no contradiction in what I say just your understandig of what is the fact.God created Mary as "The Woman" in Genesis therefore she is without sin,therefore she does not need a saviour as she is already free from sin.
"All need a saviour"this is a fixation in your mind.You underestimate the power of God to project what HE conceives into the Future. History shows that this is not only a posibility but a fact.This you cannot GRASP, and hidden from your intellect b/c you defy God in his ALMIGHTINESS.Matt11:25 READ it for yourself.You apostated Mark You have the ability to recant, if you desire.You speak like one who thinks he knows.
---MIC on 4/8/09


Mic, even by your own words you contradict yourself. If Mary needed a Savior and she did, it means she was sinful in nature. All those who are born after Adam and Eve are sinful in nature. All need a Savior, for all sin and come short of the glory of God. The women in Genesis is Eve because the message is given to her. Mary could not have been born yet, because if she was, she would have been thousands of years old mother. Sorry Mic, you need to come to Christ and receive the Holy Spirit in order to be able to understand Scripture. Only the Spirit can bring light to God's Word. Salvation by baptism, or eating Christ every Sunday will not do. You need a spiritual rebirth. You are running out of time.
---MarkV. on 4/8/09


Mark:-You of all people even although apostate should know the teachings of the RCC as established by JESUS in Matt16:13-19.Purgatory exists just as plain as the nose on your face , for want of a better similarity.
Your last para is nearer the truth than you imagine.Reflect on it.EXACTLY it is because she was concieved in Genesis she is sinless and Has no need of a saviour which is why she saysLuke1:46 "My soul magnifies the lord and my spirit REJOICES in "GOD MY SAVIOUR".she is saved by Gods conception of her in Genesis "THE WOMAN"You may say I speak FALSE but it is you who does miss the concept of the truth,what God concieves is pure as mary says, by rejoicing.
---MIC on 4/7/09


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Mima:-"indoctrintion not the word of God is the goal of denominational and / or nondenominational churches""In reality Purgatory does not Exist"
1 The RCC does not fit into the category of your sentence as it is NOMINATED by God, whether you believe it or Not.
2What proof do you have Purgatory does not exist.HAVE YOU BEEN THERE? I provided Biblical proof of the existance and Protestants also revere ALL SOUL DAY on Novr2every year Just b/c Baptists do not does not say it does not exist.so you are wrong
---MIC on 4/7/09


Mima Mima, you song is broken. Heard it and defended it already.
You never give data. Why?
Because you know it isn't true.
Only true in your mind.
Don't you all realize that you are not the first Protestants to accuse us of this lies?
Many before you have. Centuries and centuries the RCC has heard these lies from others.
She is very OLD and you are very YOUNG.

Fathers of the Church have answered it and the RCC in her wisdom has stored it for future generations. Why?
Because She knows you would bring it up again over and over.
When you are in Heaven with your Lord, your great, great grandchildren will also believe they are clever and bring up the same falsehood until Jesus comes for His Church.

Peace.
---Natalie2 on 4/7/09


Mic, you are still passing false statements about Mary. Out of all the Catholics answering you the oldest by now should know and believe Scripture. Purgatory doesn't exist and Mary was not mentioned in Genesis. You said, "Your pride Insists Mary, God's chosen conceived WOMAN in Genesis created By God is with sin. This is inconceivable, what you say is God created a sinful being!!!WRONG GOD CANNOT.especially when He creates and saves her in Genesis

If Mary was born sinless, why would she need to be save? Saved from what? She would need no salvation if she was born sinless. It is you who contradicts yourself.
---MarkV. on 4/7/09


In reality purgatory does not exist.

In mythology(papal bulls for raising money by selling indulgences) definitely does exist.

Purgatory also exist in the deluded minds of the blind followers of the RCC. Born to the RCC and indoctrinated from the womb on Catholics deserve our sympathy, our prayers, for these people have been misled by others and have not investigated the Bible for themselves.

Indoctrination, not the word of God, is the goal of most denominational and/or nondenominational churches.
---mima on 4/7/09


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So, I am telling you that DEAD people are not sleeping. They have returned and spoken to people living on earth.
******

dead are sleeping in hell (the grave) ***OR*** 1Corin 15 is a LIE

either traditions of men and purgatory are truth ***OR*** Word of God is truth

one cannot lay claim to Word of God AND belief in a purgatory because this antichrist fable of men does not exist in Holy Word a direct contradiction to 1Corin 15

if "visited" by a dead person it is a DEMON

transfiguration is CLEARLY a VISION per WORD of Christ

but many self professing christians do not believe EVERY WORD of God Luke 11:28 preferring to follow and keep traditions of men Mark 7:6-7
---Rhonda on 4/6/09


Thats you speaking my dear, not me.
---Natalie2 on 4/6/09

I do take my own advice. I am not the one making things up. I am not the one insulting others.
And yes Christ Spirit is in ALL Christians and Christ is an the right hand of God.
Do you deny this?
If you do then you deny God's power to be omnipresent. The Bible certainly speaks about God being everywhere. He even knows what we think before we speak.
See what the moderator said? That is the truth, natalie2, whether you want to believe it or not.
---miche3754 on 4/6/09


No there isn't any purgatory. If there had been Jesus wouldn't have told the thief on the cross this day you will be with me in Paradise Luke 23:43. Paradise means Garden of God,where the tree of life is found, Revelations 2:7 . If there was purgatory he would have said your're going to purgatory first but when you fully get cleansed then you'll be with me in Paradise. Putting the related verses in the Bible together helps one understand the true meaning of things being said,and discloses things which some may believe,but which don't fit the Bible explanation.
---Darlene_1 on 4/6/09


natalie2,
Christ is in us and at the right hand of God.
He can certainly be more than one place at one time. You try to pigeon hole God. That is not wise.---miche3754 on 4/5/09

Then take your own advice.


Paul said to absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord.
Is our Lord in purgatory or is HE at the right hand of God?
He is at the right hand of God.--miche3754 on 4/3/09

Thats you speaking my dear, not me.


---Natalie2 on 4/6/09


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natalie2,
Christ is in us and at the right hand of God.
He can certainly be more than one place at one time. You try to pigeon hole God. That is not wise.
---miche3754 on 4/5/09


This is about the Transfiguration of Jesus Christ.---RebeccaD

NO, this isn't about the Transfiguration of Jesus. It's Purgatory.

You keep claiming people are sleeping, or in Heaven, trapped and can not come out of Heaven.
I brought up Moses and Elijah who died before Jesus.
I take it you don't think they went to hell.

So, I am telling you that DEAD people are not sleeping. They have returned and spoken to people living on earth.

I used Scripture to support my statement.
This exchange of words and sight of dead OT's persons are seen by 3 living people which happened during the Transfiguration of Jesus.
You want Scripture to back our statements, so I gave Scripture.

That is what this topic is about.
---Natalie2 on 4/5/09


Natalie2: You kept telling me that I was saying that Peter was sleep talking. If I were wrong in what I wrote, then I would admit it, but I wasn't wrong. I already knew that Moses had died, but Elijah hadn't. But this isn't about Peter, Moses or Elijah. This is about the Transfiguration of Jesus Christ. I didn't put down about the Catholic church. If I did I am sorry. But you are the one whom accused me of Peter sleep talking, which I never said that. Moses and Elijah appeared to Christ from heaven. The reason why Peter and the others saw this was to prepare them for a great trial which was approaching, by showing them the real glory and power of Jesus Christ.
---Rebecca_D on 4/4/09


"And wouldn't it be Christ speaking through James, Paul and Peter?"
No it is not. They spoke of Christ, not Christ spoke of himself through them.

"The Bible in the NT says that Christs death and resurrection did away with our seperation from God."
Listening to kath much? Aren't you missing the most important part of Jesus Christ? You speak of 'death' and 'resurrection,' where is The Life, even his Life and His Ministry as recorded? It is in taking his life that we get life, not his death.

Natalie is correct, if Christ "is at the right hand of God", how can he be greater which is in you?
---Nana on 4/4/09


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D.D.M.Jn:- you write as if you are infallible. You forget that God being merciful does not send people to HELL Men make that choice by their own selves. B/c they do not believe and choose to follow and believe the deceit Satan spreads when he seeks the ruin of souls.Man Has free will why else are there so many multitudinous denominations are people Blind ?why is there only "one" church nominated By God yes JUST one and the rest clamour, asking which is the right church. disregarding the WORD OF GOD.
---MIC on 4/3/09


D.D.M.Jn:- you write as if you are infallible. You forget that God being merciful does not send people to HELL Men make that choice by their own selves. B/c they do not believe and choose to follow and believe the deceit Satan spreads when he seeks the ruin of souls.Man Has free will why else are there so many multitudinous denominations are people Blind ?why is there only "one" church nominated By God yes JUST one and the rest clamour, asking which is the right church. disregarding the WORD OF GOD.
---MIC on 4/3/09


It was because of the purgatory like statement in the book "Apocalypse of Peter" it was stricken from being in the Bible.--Duane_Dudley_Martin_Jr.

Thanks, but our belief in Purgatory came mostly from our oldest Jewish brothers in 2 of the books of Maccebbes which were in the Bible for 1200 for everyone. But now only in the Bible for Catholics and Orthodoxs.
Luther took them out for his followers. Not the 'Apocalypse of Peter'

2 Maccabees 12:38-45, A Jewish belief first.

If Luther didn't touch the Bible, you would believe in Purgatory as well.
Thats why Jesus told us not to add or TAKE AWAY. Others are harmed from these actions.
---Natalie2 on 4/3/09


It was because of the purgatory like statement in the book "Apocalypse of Peter" it was stricken from being in the Bible.

I also remember about a parable in of Matt. that leads one to think theirs a chance to make it out of Hell and unto the glory of God, The book of Rev. speaks of this to, Hell & Grave gave up their DEAD and the books are opened & JUDGED by what is written within & then the Book of Life to SEE IF their names ARE in IT & THOSE that ain't r cast out, That sounds like theirs still a chance for some people.

Do you "know" the extent of God's mercy?
I think Not.

However, I wouldn't want to go that route,
to gamble with ones own soul cannot be a good thing.
YLBD
---Duane_Dudley_Martin_Jr. on 4/3/09


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Misce:-You talk without thought b/c your arguements are contradictory, in one post is the opposite in another Your pride Insists Mary, God's chosen conceived WOMAN in Genesis created By God is with sin. This is inconceivable, what you say is God created a sinful being!!!WRONG GOD CANNOT.especially when He creates and saves her in Genesis and introduces her back in His time by acknowleging her in History as "Full of Grace"Then you disagree with Nana who states there is a purgatory. Jesus death and resurrection did not do away with separation but Just explains that the gates of heaven were reopened this is what that means."Follow me" means earn your salvation.Read 1Peter4:7-10.Being his children, study and apply HIS WAYS.
---MIC on 4/3/09


Paul said to absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord.---miche3754 on 4/3/09

You can't pull Passages from it's content.
I will show you how you are twist Paul's words.

Now, Paul did say absent from Body is to be present with the Lord.

What about, Jesus saying "...behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."
Matthew 28:16. ?

What about your beloved story of the Rapture?
You all claim your bodies are going to be Jesus. Those in sin remain on earth.

So which is it?
Our bodies with the Presence of Jesus, or absent of body to be present with Jesus?

You speak from both sides of your mouth.
You pick and choose Scriptures to suit your own agruments.
---Natalie2 on 4/3/09


Nana, we are talking about purgatory here.
And wouldn't it be Christ speaking through James, Paul and Peter?
Of course, so what I said includes them.
The Bible in the NT says that Christs death and resurrection did away with our seperation from God.
Paul said to absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord.
Is our Lord in purgatory or is HE at the right hand of God?
He is at the right hand of God.
---miche3754 on 4/3/09


"This means NT ONLY. If Christ did not say it, then it isn't true."
miche3754 on 4/2/09
What shall we do then with the witness of Paul, Peter, James and the rest?

As far as Purgatory is concerned I believe more that there is such a place than not. Then I would say that Purgatory is not for unbelievers who also delighted in those things which would exclude Heaven (1 Cor 6:9,10).
We do not know everything, and with our best intentions in belonging and building on the fellowship of Christ, we may err. That error must be revealed to us and then we will know all Truth and go to Heaven (1 Cor 3).
---Nana on 4/3/09


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mic,
you can say what ever you wish.
And no my feathers aren't ruffled.
It is so funny that you actually believe that.
Anyway, Whether you like it or not God's word is God's word.
It says no where in the Bible that Mary was born without sin.
And you still as of yet have given me scripture that supports your belief that prugatory STILL exists.
Now I am not condemning what you believe. I am taking all scripture to heart. And after Jesus died and rose again, there is no word of prugatory. That simple. Just as it says nothing about Mary being born sinless.
IT does however say that Jesus is the only one born sinless. I will take what God says thank you not man.
---miche3754 on 4/3/09


Moses and Elijah was never asleep cause they were dead.---Rebecca_D

See how quickly you blame me, when you are found wrong with your own words?
I was trying to get the information straight. You kept jumping and mixing up your own beliefs.

I proved to you how you stated 2 different things (which you asked me to do)opposite of each other using your OWN POSTS. Like a chid you put down my Church, my Bible and claim I twisted your words.
All because you are too proud to admit you messed up.

Again you make a statement totally opposite of the Bible.
We are right back to the start of our conversation.
How can DEAD PEOPLE TALK? Matthew 17
Moses and Elijah are dead and talking now?
You twist your own words, not me.
---Natalie2 on 4/2/09


Mischie:-You are ruffled, to the point of explosion.First you opiniate that Mary was born in iniquity(Wrong) then you counter perhaps she grew in Grace?(wrong) she was FULL of Grace.Then you pull a switcheroo and tackle Purgatory, as I explained My Bible has 2Machabees 12:45 "ML, the apostate" threw yours in the bin,so you are in the dark, and ready to do battle with me.Did I say that you are separated from God by Purgatory or is that a figment of your imagination.The separation comes from the followers of HER SEED and his seed since you say mary is born in iniquity you place yourself along with his seed .Don't do that and we will allbe fiends happy and smiling and one flock as Jesus intended.(RIGHT)Mary in Christ
---MIC on 4/2/09


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