Paul's Thorn In The Flesh
Paul said if it wasn't for the law, he would not have know coventness was a sin. In Romans 7 he talked about doing the very things he didn't want to and attributed it to the sin that dwelled in his flesh. What do you think was the thorn in his flesh?
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---Bob on 2/9/09
Helpful Blog Vote (5)
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Paul's Thorn in his flesh,
was his Eyesight
Gabby6487 |
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---Gabby on 4/26/09 |
Janine, your answer about the thorn in his flesh is correct. "And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me," As with Job Satan was the immediate cause, but God was the ultimate cause. This was send by God to keep Paul humble after so many revelations he would not become prideful. "a messenager of satan to buffet me, lest I be exhalted above measure." Paul's use of the word messenger (greek- angellos or angels) was a demon person, not a physical illness. The angel was a demon afflicting Paul. The best explanation for this was that this demon was indwelling the ring leader of the Corinthians conspiracy, the leader of the false apostles. |
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---MarkV. on 3/10/09 |
I believe it came as a result from being caught up to the third heaven.He experienced pure,undefiled,flawless holiness.Paul referred to himself in romans chapter 7 vs 14-24 as I,me,andmy 34 times.He saw his sinful nature and carnal mind and heart in dramatic fashion.It was inescapable! Yes he was an overcomer by the spirit within. HE said lest i should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations,there was given me a thorn in the flesh.After praying 3 times God said My Grace is sufficient for thee:for My strength is made perfect in weakness.How can any believer never know brokeness. |
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---Dewaine on 3/8/09 |
Stevenq and Mima,
We all properly say , "don't beat yourself up over it." Even though God forgives and forgets, we the weaker vessels tend to remember and beat ourselves up over the past things we have done. In Paul's buffeting, studying his epistles, he "repeatedly" mentions how he once did so much damage to the church. These epistles were written years after Paul received his forgiveness. Like all Christians, circumstances(stonings, beatings, shipwrecks) caused Paul to repeatedly remember the guilt of his past sins(stonings, beatings, barborous actions), but God kept reminding him about grace.
Mima, you are correct to think this works well as something to be applied to you uniquely. In your weakness, God is strong! |
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---Legends on 2/20/09 |
Scripture, second Corinthians 1:7," And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." Uses the word BUFFET. And because of the use of the word buffet I believe we are talking about something physica.
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---mima on 2/19/09 |
I appreciate that the Lord did not specify what Paul's thorn actually was. It allows me to apply the II Corinthians verse about "Grace" to myself with my trials and adversities more readily. |
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---Trish9863 on 2/19/09 |
Legends: "Gold star... Bob! Thorns are memories of past sins, mistakes, stupid things we've done in the past."
When we repent of your sins, they are no longer remembered by God. Whatever Paul's past life was is no longer remembered by God. Paul was converted. His old self was washed away and a new person was born. Do you believe that God will remember all your sins that you repented? Of course not. |
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---Steveng on 2/18/09 |
Gold star... Bob! Thorns are memories of past sins, mistakes, stupid things we've done in the past. God originally told Adam "Because you (Adam) did something stupid... your ground shall yield thorns and thistles. "Thorns" (guilty memories of past actions i/e leading Stephen's stoning, terrorizing the church). Thorns pierce. "Thistle" (a time period caught in thorns' grasps) I do not know of a better example than guilt-filled women who, years ago, had an abortion. Being "weak" in "remembering" the message of grace, experiences remind her of dreadful decision(s). Like Paul, she prays repeatedly, "take it away" from her. God repeatedly responds, My Grace is more than enough! |
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---Legends on 2/14/09 |
It doesn't say what the "thorn" is in Paul's side, but let's use scripture as its own reference: Numbers33:55, Joshua23:13, Judges2:3, Psalm118:12, Isaiah9:18, Isaiah27:4, Ezekiel 2:6, Ezekiel 28:24, Matthew13:7, Matthew13:22, none of these are considered sicknesses. The thorns are actually unsaved people who rile, persecute, and kill God's people which is Paul's dilemma. Tribulation is normal for the Christian and God's grace is sufficient. The coming tribulation upon an unloving world is what will separate the true and faithful believers from the people who just say "Lord, Lord." Although you have tribulation in the world: be of good cheer for you have overcome the world. |
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---Steveng on 2/13/09 |
Warwick, I am in complete agreement with you here! God bless. |
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---JohnnyB on 2/13/09 |
So to sum it up Paul's 'thorn in the flesh' was epilepsy, Satan, pride, poor vision, the circumcision group,lack of speaking ability, stress etc.
Maybe Satan knew Paul was prideful, but lacked the speaking ability to tell the circumcision group, they were wrong. In fact his poor eyesight meant he couldn't even find them to tell them off and the stress gave him epilepsy?
Please excuse my poor attempt at humour but does it really matter? Isn't this just a distraction from defending the word of God and preaching the gospel? |
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---Warwick on 2/13/09 |
I was wondering if Paul's thorn in the flesh might have been His sinful memories. After all he was involved in persecuting christians big time. He put them in prison and was on his way to Damascus to find more of them to bring back to Jerusalem. He was in hearty agreement with putting Stephen to death and watch him get stoned to death. We can't be sure, but maybe he was involved in other cruel treatment of those they imprisoned. Maybe he was haunted by those memories. Paul must have encountered family members of those he persecuted from time to time. He was probably reminded from time to time during his ministry by those whose lives were affected by his actions. Just a guess. |
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---Bob on 2/13/09 |
Footwashing...I looked could not find the blog. Please forgive me, for I will stick it on here...Foot-washing was given by Jesus as an example. Christ is not instituting an ordinance of footwashing, but is showing an example of humility. He does not command us to wash others smelly feet. A lot of people are doing these kinds of things, thinking it will save them, being religious, or out of ignorance. Take your pick. |
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---catherine on 2/13/09 |
Paul's thorn in the flesh was Satan. |
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---Deb on 2/12/09 |
Ephesians 6:18: "Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints, And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak." Paul of course knew that Moses got a spokesperson to surpass his speech. No, the bonds are not a speech impediment.
Just noticed your post John, and I agree. |
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---Nana on 2/12/09 |
Don't you think that if Paul had wanted us to know the nature of his Thorn In The Flesh, he would have described it? God bless you. |
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---JohnnyB on 2/11/09 |
The thorn in his flesh I think , was PRIDE.
People think that he had it forever, but it does say in the end of book that God healed him of it. I think that he got puffed up, and God had to humble him for awhile, to teach him a lesson, and then he healed him evenually. Sin can always open doors to sickness and disease. |
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---Janine on 2/11/09 |
Paul's "thorn in the flesh" might have been the neurological disorder called Epilepsy.
Epileptic seizures could be the cause of Paul's temporary blindness and his seeing things on the Road to Damascus. Of course, we don't really know. Actually, all of the traveling and difficult situations that Paul endured would be quite dangerous for a person with Epilepsy.
However, when you are serving God, he makes ALL things possible. This is why Paul claims that God answered his prayer to removed the thorn with "my strength is made perfect in weakness". And Paul comes to realize that having a physical weakness leads to being stronger for God. |
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---Augie on 2/11/09 |
My understanding of "the thorn in his flesh" is that it was them "of the circumcision". I find validity to that assertion in 2 Corinthians 11. He had called them "my flesh". Galatians 4:14: "And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected, but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus." Then he adds, Galatians 4: 17: "They zealously affect you, but not well, yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them." Declared, Titus 1: 10_11:"For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake." |
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---Nana on 2/11/09 |
It's interesting to speculate...but not necessary to know what it really was. Most Christians have one or more problems that seemingly can't be cured or resolved. When we end up living with something that hurts like a "thorn in the flesh" it helps to realize that Paul did too. God doesn't shield us from all discomforts....for without any we might never grow. |
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---Donna66 on 2/11/09 |
Just to throw another idea out there (as if we needed another, right?): I've heard it been said that the thorn in Paul's flesh refers to his lack of ability as a public speaker. A few verses in his second epistle to the Corinthians lend support to this notion.
2Cor10:10- For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful, but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.
2Cor11:6- But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge, but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things. |
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---Bobby3 on 2/10/09 |
"Thou shalt not covet" Paul is saying before grace he was not able to keep the laws of God [Why Jesus came]. [Grace through conversion] Note: We do not keep the laws of God because we fear Him, but because we love Him [A law of love written on our hearts].The thorn in the flesh some believes it was a bad eyesight, and Galatians 4:13-15 seems to support this. Was not painful but was rather disgusting. Also, Satan used the blindness at Paul's conversion in this. [Some believes]. |
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---catherine on 2/10/09 |
After reading all the answers so for I want to agree with---Bill_bila5659. Also I would like to put A word tag on,"*only whenever Paul was acting in ego." And that word would be-- PRIDE -- |
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---mima on 2/10/09 |
I believe that Paul didn't name his thorn in the flesh, in order that we might better identify with him. Do we all not have a thorn in the flesh, something that is a constant burden, something that we constantly struggle with? These thorns in the flesh help us to see our own weakness, they keep us humble, and encourage us to look to the God and see from where our true strength comes.
2 cor 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. |
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---trey on 2/10/09 |
I tend to agree with John's comment, but, I add this, what difference does it make? If we are faithful to God's commands, He will show us things that will require us to be humbled also. We can speculate all day about Paul's "thorn in the flesh" and not gain one iota of benefit from it. |
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---tommy3007 on 2/10/09 |
People have suggested various meanings but I have often wondered if Paul's 'thorn in the flesh' was poor eyesight. Galatians 6:11 gives some support to this. |
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---Warwick on 2/10/09 |
2 Corinthians 12:7 > "And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure." I'd say "a messenger of Satan" would be an invisible evil spirit who could get to Paul even while no people were around, and would have various powers to bring a variety of problems to work Paul over > buffeting Paul like an expert boxer using jabs and combinations, to find his weak spots. But this could work *only whenever Paul was acting in ego*. That thorn demon could parry past Paul's defenses and pop his ego, then inject him with frustration etc.exposing how he was not obeying in God's grace. |
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---Bill_bila5659 on 2/9/09 |
Many ideas on this subject but not much proof. The thorn was a messenger of Satan and was buffeting (smitting by the hand). My guess is that it was persecution by a person or group that was bent on Paul's destruction. This would also line up with every mention of the thorn in the flesh in the Old Testament which was always persecution. This is my thought but I'll check out the other replies also. |
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---john on 2/9/09 |
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