Should I Leave This Church
How do you know when you should leave your church, I see some terrible things going on, yet have not felt God leading me anywhere else. I don't understand if God just wants me to wait, or go? I pray everyday for understanding and guidance.
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---shell on 2/26/09
Helpful Blog Vote (13)
Cluny--In the Orthodox church it sounds as if its' "alter call" is for believers. "With fear of God, faith, and love draw near" when the Deacon comes out with the Chalice to summon the faithful for Communion of the Body and Blood of Christ
---Cluny on 10/28/10
Or do you invite anyone and everyone to share communion?
The traditional Protestant "alter call" is for anybody -- but usually specifically for unbelievers who would like to start a relationship with Jesus. Secondarily, it is for Christians to renew their commitment to the Lord.
And it is quite separate from the Sacrament of Communion.
---Donna66 on 10/31/10|
Check your heart as to what ties you to this church.
---kathy on 10/29/10|
Concerning altar calls,
I've asked several pastors to explain what an altar call is to their congregation and also to explain what happens when someone answers the altar call. Several pastors have done this with good success.
Altar calls are not absolutely necessary but are very helpful when dealing with people under conviction. Many times on the street witnessing I ask people do you want me to prove to you that you're going to go to heaven? Immediately their interests is aroused, and I then have an opportunity to explain to them how they can be saved, at which time I asked them do you want call upon the name of the Lord to be saved? About 85% say yes I do. At which time I lead them In a sinner's prayer.
---mima on 10/29/10|
Shell -- Many people see something in a church that rubs them the wrong way...so they just leave. You have the wisdom and maturity to enquire of God and to stay put until, or unless, He tells you to go elsewhere.
Bad things can happen in any church. (Doesn't mean it's a "bad" church...maybe it is, maybe not). Can you have a little talk with the Pastor privately? Ask him how to interpret whatever you don't understand. It may shed some light on things. But don't leave without a release from God. You are handling this just the right way, I think.
---Donna66 on 10/28/10|
Mark ... Cluny refers not to what you would name an "altar call" but the invitation to the people to come forward to partake in the Eucharist.
In the Anglican church we have the same at every communion service "Draw near with faith ... "
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/29/10|
Cluny, you said to Mima there was no altar call's in the Bible. Now you say you have altar calls when you said,
"The only altar call the Orthodox church knows is" and you gave your reason. You wanted to cut his statment down by saying altar calls are not in the Bible, now you present altar calls in your traditions. Now how dumb is that? Argument for nothing.
---Mark_V. on 10/28/10|
Many times the Eastern Orthodox Church's identity is tied up with who they are not.
I learned that personally from a "Father" in Eastern Orthodox who is in Jerusalem. Actually, that was his complaint of the patriarch.
Maybe he is wrong, I just found it interesting because I've noticed many times in these blogs that has been true. I also noticed that many times the Orthodox position on dogmas are justified based on what protestants do the same rather than taking a position that the Orthodox Church is right because they are right.
From my position, it was refreshing hearing a "Father" have the freedom to express an opinion, where I don't think that would happen in the RCC.
---Rod4Him on 10/28/10|
\\Ignatius, so you do have altar call's you just don't call them altar call's and have different reasons for giving the call's for salvation\\
The only altar call the Orthodox church knows is "With fear of God, faith, and love draw near" when the Deacon comes out with the Chalice to summon the faithful for Communion of the Body and Blood of Christ.
---Cluny on 10/28/10|
Ignatius, so you do have altar call's you just don't call them altar call's and have different reasons for giving the call's for salvation. I know Cluny already understood that those calls are made whether they call them altar calls or some other name. I assume the reason he said what he did was to argue against 'altar call's. No other reason since you say you have similar calls only for different reasons. I was not asking him to change, only giving the explanation as to why, just like you did with yours.
---Mark_V. on 10/28/10|
Ignatius ... Sorry to have ascribed that to Cluny! I posted late at night.
My point was that in fact your church and mine, who don't have "Altar Calls", in fact do make the same call to sinners, but in a different way.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/28/10|
"Cluny describes the Orthodox "need to come to Christ and on the Mystery of Repentance"" (alan8566 of uk)
Cluny did not said that. I did. Understand?
"But we don't call it an Altar Call."
Which is my point. Many Protestants churches, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, etc, do not have "Altar Calls" in their worship services (as practiced by Evangelical Christians), but still reach out to those in need.
Such a (Evangelical) Protestant extra biblical tradition, although not bad or evil in itself, is not practice by all the Ancient Apostolic Churches, but we been during a good job reaching out to the non-believers for the past 2,000 years!
---Ignatius on 10/27/10|
It seems that Mark and Cluny are not far apart.
What is an altar call?
Cluny describes the Orthodox "need to come to Christ and on the Mystery of Repentance"
Now how does that differ from the "Altar Call"
Only, I suggest, in the fact that Mark calls it an Altar Call.
My own church has invitations to pray, and chat to the pastor or other leader if they want to learn more or make a commitment. But we don't call it an Altar Call.
Same thing, but diffrent name.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/27/10|
"I already know you don't have altar calls. " (Mark V)
Not necessary. Although Orthodoxy do not have this Post-Reformation Protestant tradition, our Divine Liturgies are filled with references of our need to come to Christ and on the Mystery of Repentance. For instance, the following is found in The Great Entrance "We who mystically represent the Cherubim...... Let us set aside all the cares of life that we may receive the King of all..."
Orthodox Clergy members usually talk to "new-comers" at the end of service, inviting those individuals to Christ and His Church (at least this was my experience in the parishes I went to before I left Protestantism).
---Ignatius on 10/27/10|
Cluny, don't get jumpy. I didn't say you had to believe in it. I did say there was no words saying "altar call." I gave you the reason why they call altar calls "altar calls." If that is not a good reason, I'm sorry it was not good enough. But no matter what you think, that is the reason they are called 'altar calls" 'altar calls" because people are to know their condition while lost, and why Christ came to give life, to those who believe and repent, and we are called to confess with our mouths.
I already know you don't have altar calls. I also knew you did not approve, since you don't have them, I was not asking you to. You have your own traditions.
---Mark_V. on 10/27/10|
\\Which is what the altar call should represent.
---Mark_V. on 10/27/10\\
Nowhere in the Bible will you find "altar calls" as a liturgical act--which is what they've become in some Protestant Churches.
It's a tradition and precept of men.
---Cluny on 10/27/10|
Cluny, those words are not found in the Bible, the same as the Trinity. They come from passages that connected as the Trinity.
1. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Rom. 3:23
2. the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Our Lord. Rom.6:23,
3. God demonstrates His own love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Rom. 5:8
4. Repent that yours sins be forgiven Acts 3:19
5. By God's Grace you will receive the free gift through faith not of ourselves, Eph. 2:8
6. If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe with your heart that God raised Him from the dead you shall be saved. Rom. 10:9,10.
Which is what the altar call should represent.
---Mark_V. on 10/27/10|
\\And I ask and you have never answered an altar call?\\
Where are "altar calls" in the Bible?
Please give book, chapter, and verse.
---Cluny on 10/27/10|
A woman wanted me to witness to her uncle. I dutifully went and witnessed to him. During that witness he told me he that he had been going to that(one his niece and him went to) church for 40 years!!! And I ask and you have never answered an altar call? No he said. I issued a call for him to answer and asked him did he want to pray. No, I do not at this time he said. Whereupon I left. I knew that his wife had been was watching from a window as we were standing in his driveway and I wondered if she heard us. The very next Sunday he answered the altar call and gave his heart to the Lord Jesus Christ. Ever time I see him now he is so very very happy. But 40 years, now that's hard to believe but the above is a true story.
---mima on 10/26/10|
Cluny, I have been agreeing with you alot lately and agree with you on this one too. You said,
"When you don't know what to do, do nothing."
If you have no desire one way or another, really, you do nothing. A very good description of the definition of "Free will" When the will is "free indeed" it does not know what to do. it does nothing. It needs a desire to do something. Once Shell's will has a reason, he will know what to do. Great answer Cluny. Someone might learn something today. And they will know what to do. Either believe it, or reject it.
---MarkV. on 10/26/10|
Unfortuately there are many in the church today that simply do not know the Lord Jesus Christ nor do they understand what constitutes the Christian life.
Many in church wear a mask and act like Christians but there are not in reality. But what is the leadership like?
View if you will a Billy Graham or other religious crusade. Who comes forward to acknowledge Christ as Lord and Savior? If you look, there are many who have attended church for years but never once heard the gospel message being preached.
I would pray and seek the guidance of the Lord in what He wants you to do. Stay planted where you are at, or move to another church.
---leej on 10/25/10|
Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Matthew 11:14 And if ye will receive [it], this is Elias, which was for to come.
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the
testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.
When or if you find that your cuurrent church is not teaching the law and the prophets, then by all means leave because there is no light/ spirit of God in it.
---francis on 10/25/10|
When you don't know what to do, do nothing.
---Cluny on 10/22/10|
I God mad a promise would he be a liar if he didn't keep it if they can'tanswer leave.then when the promices are mentioned and they don't answer leave their only in it for the money believe that
---BOBBY on 10/22/10|
wivv, I like that. Thanks for that thought!
What kind of "terrible" things happening. I hope nothing "terrible" happens or that should be your first clue to book!!!>
Any "truths" you find odd you want to refrence your bible a lot during church hour? Not TRUTH?
Do they judge you based on dress: Jeans if you are reading at mass/service...etc. And those that know you know that's all you can afford for now? (true story)
Preacher pilfering money from the basket?
The church has a food pantry that only feeds the events and gatherings and not poor community who can't afford a decent meal? (another true story)
Those are just some hints. Youll know.
---nicoa on 4/18/09|
Stop waiting to "hear" something or someone and make your own decisions.
---Amanda on 4/17/09|
".....yet have not felt God leading me anywhere else. I don't understand if God just wants me to wait, or go? I pray everyday for understanding and guidance."
Perhaps you've been trying to hard to hear what you wanted to hear and not what God was answering you with. Not a biggie...
It could be that the Lord wants you to stay where its at. Perhaps getting involved with the church on a deeper level. I don't know what type of church you attend but perhaps your example is what the Lord wants others to see - to help spread the light back through your church home.
---lesla3685 on 3/31/09|
As a retired missionarys returning to the states, and to a different state than we left 33years ago, we were looking for a church home. Even though we visited serveral churches, and they were all Bible centered, our spirit just wasn't agreeing with the Holy Spirit. But, the last church we visited our spirit did agree and we joined. Perfect? No, you won't find the perfect church - but if your spirit agrees with the Holy Spirit, than stay. Keep this saying in mind, "The church is NOT a hotel for Christians, but a HOSPITAL for sinners." Maybe you are suppose to be a "nurse" in this "hospital" Is there anyway you can voice your opinion and get a positive reaction?
---wivv on 3/23/09|
Glen ... God put the pastor in charge of the local bible School for boys.
Really? So God approved of the abuse of a generation of young lads.
---alan8566_of_UK on 3/10/09|
You must wait. Until it is time to go. You will know.
---catherine on 3/10/09|
God put the pastor in charge of the church. As a shepherd over his sheep. He also put parents over the children. Now for the problem in your church. Next time you go. Don't worry about what everybody else is doing. Put your hands up and praise our God and forget about all things but Him.Watch what will happen. You will be blessed, because your relationship with Jesus is between just you and him. Where all human. Show me a church without problems, and Ill show you a cemetery.
---Glen on 3/7/09|
Robyn: "Steveng: Yep. You got it right."
No, I'm not right, the Word of God is right. It is from the Holy Spirit where I get my knowledge. Glory to God.
I sure hope and pray that you do have fellowship on a daily basis with other Christians. This is where your growth in Christ matures.
---Steveng on 3/6/09|
Steveng: Yep. You got it right. This is what I do.Eveyone acts like little robots in the church. Mom and dad(pastor and wife) do as they please and are accountable to no one. The members make no major decisions. Can't even testify in the church without permission. The pastor and wife controls everything!
God does still give us wisdom and understanding..When things get to overwhelming for me, I don't even go to my church. I do get tired of the mess and confusion.
---Robyn on 3/6/09|
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steveng, I agree about the rose and it always makes me smile down deep to chat with someone that holds the name Jesus in high esteem. As a fellow admirer of that name, I was only wanting to share with you that I had heard that in Hebrew Jesus (Yeshua) means God Saves.
And sorry about trying to turn you into a Queen, no reasonable George would go for that.
---DavidA on 3/5/09|
Robyn: "Do what I did. I got tired of running from church to church. I found one that fits in closely to the way I like to praise and worship."
Most Christians have an "eye" problem. "I like to pray this way." "I like the pastor." "I like the worship." "I like the entertainment." "I like the programs." I... I... I...
What ever happened to God's way?
Living a Christian life is a 24/7 lifestyle not a once a week pep talk. Do an online bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag" and apply what you learned. If your church is not right then be bold to allow the Holy Spirit to work through you to change it.
---Steveng on 3/4/09|
Do what I did. I got tired of running from church to church. I found one that fits in closely to the way I like to praise and worship. The ministries are varied. We do Outreach. Something that I love,by the way.My pastor can preach/teach,ok. The building looks ok,so I won't mind inviting guests,sometimes.I try to get to know others in the church/fellowship. Do my small part(giving,helping out when needed etc...) support the ministries and pastor etc...when needed. All of the other mess and problems I tune out, when I can. And there are many problems, as in all churches.
I try to be led by the Spirit inside and outside the church and I go with that,for now.
---Robyn on 3/4/09|
DavidA: "BTW, have you ever looked up the Hebrew derivation of the name Jesus?"
"A rose by any other name is still a rose." Jesus had many names, just like the apostles and other godly people in the Bible. When you pray to the Father, your lips call him father because that is of the world, but your spirit speaks another name unknown to man.
---Steveng on 3/3/09|
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stevenq: "Stevenq thank you for speaking out against lazy thinking..."
Just to set things striaght to those reading these blogs and not to cause confusion, my proper blog name is Steveng, not Stevenq.
The underline makes the g (as in George)appear as a q (as in queen).
---Steveng on 3/3/09|
Stevenq thank you for speaking out against lazy thinking. To strengthen your case against the pack mentality, look up the source of this stevenq quote: "...two or *more* are gathered...".
Also your multi-level marketing reference struck cords with me. I remember thinking once, that Jesus invented multi-level marketing and it was just Amway (and plenty of others since) that then gave it a bad name. At the heart of MLM is involvement at at every level of an organization. Its inherently distributed. I also like to think that the good news I spread somehow honors the folks that help spread the good news to me. Thats awesome I think. Thanks for triggering those old thoughts in my dusty mind.
---stevenq on 3/2/09|
You should leave if the what the Pastor says is not aliening up with the word of God. You will get a peace when God releases you and its time to go. I know alot of people afraid to leave because they have been there so long and are afraid of change. I felt led to leave a church and it took me about a year to find another, but I didn't stay at home on Sundays, I was seeking out a church every week. Its hard to find a church that does not compromise and walks in Holiness, whic the church is lacking. Of course, no church is going to be perfect, but if there is no love, and they are teaching false doctrine, then I wouldn't stay. God bless
---Janine_Henschel on 3/2/09|
Sometimes doctrine gets in the way of Truth. That Book if there for a reason, and in order for it to make any sense, it has to be read in a way that isn't in contradiction from one verse to another verse.
A concordance helps, too. Most people think all that's necessary is to spit out "verses" (accurately or otherwise.) But, we can read this:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
We can't rightly divide the word of truth, if we don't know what it actually says: eh?
---BruceB on 3/2/09|
StevenQ, the *rock* Jesus was referring to and the one Simon demonstrated, earning him the new name, was this: "flesh and blood have not revealed it to you, but my Father, who is in heaven". Peter is not the rock, he was named after the rock. Now I'll tie it to what you already know and see if it rings true. Jesus is the rock. He is the gift (manna) from heaven on which the church (volunteer army) is built. He does the work (teaching, revealing, saving, cleaning, all of it). I didn't learn this from any man or any denomination but from our Father in heaven and thats why I can state this with confidence. I hope this rock blesses you the way it has blessed me. BTW, have you ever looked up the Hebrew derivation of the name Jesus?
---DavidA on 3/2/09|
BruceB I love that comment. Thank you! There are so many ways to say this (and that the scriptures do say this). Even our common sense should tell us that we can't overcome the world (i.e. be transformed to the image of Christ) by hiding from the world. Thanks for reminding me of that. Every time we see that things are not right somewhere, that can be our opportunity to shine. Do these opportunities bring us anger or hope and wonder about what God might be about to do? If we are constantly in flight, where is the victory? We won't know when its time to fight, walk away or just smile unless we believe the spirit can lead us and unless we let Him.
---DavidA on 3/2/09|
The actual verse reads:
1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
This should be undestood to mean "refrain from all appearance of evil."
In other words, don't give someone a reason to point to you as an expression of evil.
Ya can't hide from evil and be effective as a Christian. Did Jesus "avoid" all appearance of evil? Didn't He seeks out sinnes? What about Satan tempting Him, directly? Did Jesus "avoid" him - or did He confront him?
---BruceB on 3/2/09|
Shell you've already won a victory in that you are listening for an answer rather than just reacting. Ask for a clear answer and expect to get and don't let up until you do. Don't settle for advice from a friend or a scripture that sounds close or anything like that. Ask for a clear and decisive answer on how God wants you to serve his kingdom and don't do anything until you get it. PS don't forget to ask this in Jesus name! All authority under heaven and earth rests in that name. And if you can shell post back to this blog and let us know what he tells you. We all love good news.
---DavidA on 3/1/09|
Yes, there are plenty of Christian Churches to choose from. The problem is that nearly all of them are practicing adultery. This makes it very diffucult. I recommend that you find fellowship with a rare to find church that is not practicing adultery.
---Delbert_W._Whaley on 3/1/09|
my advice for someone considering leaving a church. Is don't ever leave a church spitefully, or with wishing bad things on them, and don't try to take people with you. if the Lord is speaking to you about something that is wrong and is leading you away from a church you should pray for confirmation. if you leave and someone asks why, just tell them for personal reasons, and avoid useless debating.
People have to be careful sometimes too, that their flesh is not looking for an excuse to stop serving god altogether. we all have that component in us.
---AaronT on 3/1/09|
"I pray everyday for understanding and guidance." Then you do well.
Trust the Father that He has heard you and will provide both guidance and understanding. Understanding this first, the guidance will come from within. Search within yourself for anything that opposes who you are in Christ and pray that be removed. And always remember "Thou shall call, and the LORD shall answer, thou shall cry, and He shall say, Here I [am], If thou take away from the midst if thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity."
---josef on 2/28/09|
Are you thinking of leaving because there are too many sinners? Or because the "church" provides false doctrine or teachings to sinners?
Once God gives you that determination, you have two options: you can stay and attempt to rectify the errors, for the beneift of sinners - or you can leave and go find some other sinners who are willing to hear the truth, from another sinner.
Ya can't just walk out on sinners, unless they refuse the truth. In that case, just shake off the dust of your feet and move on... and find some sinners who are willing to try to accept the truth, from you or another sinner.
A little simplified for space, but I think you can grasp the points. In either conclusion, Peace be yours, in our Lord.
---BruceB on 2/28/09|
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Get as far away as you can from denominational churches having their own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. Even so-called nondenominational churches. Denominational churches are a creation of Satan to confuse Christian wannabes who ask, "what church is the truth." Christians bicker among each other saying, "Our church is the true church." They even bicker within the same denomination saying, "Our church is better," "Our church has a better pastor," "Our church has better entertainment," "Our church has better programs." And the list goes one.
So what does a Christian to do? Read my next post...
---Steveng on 2/27/09|
The church is NOT a building, a denomination, or a nonprofit corporation. It's people, Christians, period. When Christ said that he will build his church upon this rock (Peter), what he meant was the same way multi-level marketing companies build their downline - by increasing the number of people.
Christ said He will be there when two or more are gathered in his name - whether at a park, at your home or at your local cafe. Living a Christian life is a 24/7 lifestyle. It's meeting on a daily basis not a once a week pep talk and people go their separate ways. Do an online bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag" and compare that to your church.
---Steveng on 2/27/09|
I say GO and find another place to worship and fellowship. The idea is to "avoid all appearances of evil" and if you feel that way in your CHURCH, then get out of there. How can your church bring glory to God while involved in "terrible things". What ever your decision, you are in my prayers.
---jody on 2/27/09|
A lot would depend on the definition of "terrible things." I have seen people leave a church because they did not get their way in the planning of the Children's ministry. I have seen people leave a church because they could not handle wearing too many hats in ministry, and were burned out.
I suggest you examine your heart to see what your motivation is in identifying the "terrible things." When you get a clear understanding of what they are, and how they impact your church and your ministry there, then pray for the wisdom to make the right decision for you and the church.
---Trish9863 on 2/27/09|
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If you personally gain nothing from attending your particular church and you also feel that you can contribute nothing to it either then it is almost certainly wrong for you. It doesn't mean that the church is wrong or false but we should be gaining spiritually from attending and giving some input, however little. There will be another nearby suitable for you I am certain.
---Rita on 2/27/09|
If attending your church has your heart focused on 'terrible things going on' instead of worshiping God, it's time to go.
If we get our feet moving on faith, God takes care of the rest.
---Deb on 2/27/09|
Too many born-again Christians are staying in church because of ignorance of their God and not knowing enough about false preachers. There will be a knowing inside of you as to what God will have you to do. We have two obedience... God directly and  the word of God. You must not allow Satan to dictate to you one scripture, and forget the others zillions of them on the same subject. It is not good to go to a church and be sitting right next to the devil. It is not good to go to church and listen to the devil behind the pulpit. Listen to the Spirit in all matters. God will not go against His own word, means, "GOD will always have another scripture that you may not be aware of, for Him to go with. God's wisdom.
---catherine on 2/27/09|
1 Corinthians 10 has a lot of good information that may answer your question. Paul is a great teacher and he is inspired by his God, the Lord Jesus Christ.
It is great to know that you are asking God for direction and I would suggest that you continue on your path.
Blessings to you
---Bob on 2/27/09|
Wait until you have a definite answer from God. Don't make any kind of move just because people on this site tell you to do it. Let God lead you.
---SusieB on 2/26/09|
I've been in that situation a couple of times. The first time I had been a member a couple of years, but increasingly became distressed about doctrines that seemed to me unbiblical. I asked the Lord to show me if I was the one in error. I searched the Word for
evidence one way or the other. I finally came to believe that they were following tradition and a misunderstanding. I looked for another church and found one that was the perfect place for me.
Recently after 10 years at a church, I prayerfully decided to change. I felt a strong sense of loyalty to the pastor and others, but the services depressed me. I alternated between two churches for awhile and then settled into a new church where the joy of my salvation has been restored..
---Donna66 on 2/26/09|
I've been in that situation a couple of times. The first time I had been a member a couple of years, but increasingly became distressed about certain doctrines. I asked the Lord to show me if I was the one in error. I searched the Word for evidence one way or the other. I finally came to believe that they were following tradition and a misunderstanding. I felt a sense of release from the Lord and found a church with which I felt harmony.
Recently after 10 years at a church, I prayerfully decided to change. I had a sense of loyalty to the pastor and others, but the services depressed me.I could not leave until I felt I had given the church and myself every chance to change. The Lord gave me peace when I made a decision.
---Donna66 on 2/26/09|
---shell:-How long have you been in this church?why do you want to leave? You are Honest in saying You desire to leave.God does not lead you , He gave you a free will and said Follow me.I am RCC and have been Happy since since a boy.There is only One true church as in Matt16:13-19 Jesus says "My church"No other place in the gospel does it make that statement.I wish you well in your decision.
---MIC on 2/26/09|
Let the Holy Spirit lead you on this, ask for wisdom, and God will grant it to you. Ask God to take you out of and uproot you from this church, if He does not want you there. If He does not want you there, then ask Him to place you into and plant you into the church that He wants you in. Sometimes, God desires us to stay in an unhealthy church, so we can be a witness to the Pastor, leaders, and congregation there. Also so we can lead them in the right direction. There is a plan for everything. Let the Holy Spirit be your guide.
---Leslie on 2/26/09|
What is the rush? You've prayed about this right? How long have you been "waiting" for an answer? I don't know what "terrible things" you are seeing, but, I believe God will answer your question much better than any of us here.
---tommy3007 on 2/26/09|
I commend your desire to be critical with regards to the goings-on in your church. The unfortunate trend observed with church-goers today is a lack of critical thinking coupled with a blinded acceptance of whatever the man speaking has to say. This trend is responsible for the proliferation of false doctrines in Christianity. Bring your observations to the attention of your pastor in an effort to resolve the situation. If not, find a church that does things right.
---Bobby3 on 2/26/09|
Lenten Prayer of St. Ephraim the Syrian:
O Lord and Master of my life, take from me the spirit of sloth, despair, lust for power, and vain babbling.
But grant your servant the spirit of chastity, humility, patience, and love.
Yes, O Lord, grant me to see my own sins and not judge my brother.
For blessed are You unto ages of ages. Amen.
---katavasia on 2/26/09|
There should be no churches. Jesus established the outer temple in His body (John 2:19)
"in three days" "temple of His body".
Luke 6:5, no more sabbath "DAY".
JESUS did all the "works" necessary...
"...works of God".
"might be made manifest...".
Jesus abolished the sin laws (Ephes. 2:15) so that we could live and be judged under the "law of liberty" (James 1:25 and 2:12).
The inner baptism of His spirit (LIVING water, John 7:38, Rev. 7:16, Acts 1:5, Ephesians 4:5, 1 John 5:6) is the water that flowed from Jesus's side at the cross.
You said you pray for understanding, but do you really want it?
---more_excellent_way on 2/26/09|
Leaving a church is like leaving friends and family. You should only do this under the guidance of the Lord, peaceably, and with their blessings. As with everything, if you have some beefs you need to discuss them with the people in leadership. As I look at some of the churches in Asia in Rev. 2 and 3 I see that they were not good churches either and the instruction to the people was to stand fast, not to leave. In the meantime you should be as much of a blessing as you possibly can by participating in the solution instead of the problem.
---john on 2/26/09|
In modern times, these "last days" are when we come to understand that the living water is POURED by JESUS (Acts 2:17, "will pour out my Spirit").
...but many will not want to listen to sound doctrine and will continue to dream of being intellectual masters and envision themselves as knowing all truth.
We are the inner temple...
1 Corinthians 3:16
"know that you are God's temple".
Our love should be made perfect when we come to know God (1 John 4:18) and we should learn the "depths of God" (1 Corin. 2:18) after we have learned the introductory doctrine of Jesus (Hebrews 6:1), but we must first develop eyes to see and ears to hear.
Do you really want understanding?
---more_excellent_way on 2/26/09|
Of course, I don't know what these terrible things are, Shell. So, I'm just offering considerations, here > IF you are reliable at knowing what God is leading you to do, this may answer your question. If He has you stay . . . I'd say we do not need to always be doing things because of what's evil, but get into what is because of God and how He is able. He may have people there who are good for you, and you can help people, there, too. He knows. Also . . . I have seen how a not with it church grew and matured, then they became able to select better and better pastors. If you know really Christian people, I'd say these would be ones to talk with about the terrible things, and pray and come to agreement about what to do, with each other.
---Bill_bila5659 on 2/26/09|
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