Will Cloned People Have Spirits
i think that God made every person once for a reason...the more curious we get the more tropuble our society gets into! Using cloning is testing Gods abilitys and endangering human nature!
---kiarra on 3/24/11|
I doubt we'll ever be able to clone normal healthy human beings but if we do I think God will give them a soul.
---shirley on 5/5/09|
Of course. I believe that everything that is living has a life, and a spirit.
---amand6348 on 5/5/09|
This question (and much time wasted discussing it) is like"choking on gnats".
The Bible says nothing about it. It gives no details about HOW people are concieved. It says nothing about mitosis and meiosis and eggs and sperm and eggs and mitochondrial DNA.
In most aspects of life, the Bible assumes that poeple rely on their own God-given common sense. (It mentions bread and clothes and houses, but doesn't need to teach us how to bake or sew or build).
One aspect of common sense is "If it looks like a duck, and smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck".
Clones would look like people, act like people, think like people. Why not just think of them like any other people?
---StrongAxe on 3/25/09|
"And God never produced a clone."
In a sense He did. Eve was created from a part of Adam, not through procreation OR from the dust of the eart as was Adam.
---bruce5656 on 3/24/09|
But a clone is NOT produced from an egg and sperm. No fertilization takes place. There is no combining of DNA.
The Bible doesn't address this. At least I can't think of any scripture that seems to apply.The original question was:
would clones have souls and spirits?
My opinion is that while they might have souls, I don't believe they would have spirits. Spirit comes from God, I believe.
And God never produced a clone.
---Donna66 on 3/23/09|
With a clone, the egg and donor DNA are also both produced naturally, just their location is unnatural. I still don't see what your objection is, since exactly the same issues that come up with cloning come up with in vitro fertilization.
The issues with both is (for example, "who are the parents? what will be done with the child?" etc.) rather than absolute - just as most biblical prohibitions are circumstantial.
The Bible prohibits murder and drunkenness and adultery, but commands captial punishment, suggests wine for an upset stomach, and decries abstinence. So questions like "is killing/drinking/sex wrong?" miss the point, while "WHEN are these things wrong?" is much more useful.
---StrongAxe on 3/23/09|
The most truthful answer that we should all give is. We don't know. Man was not made by god to know everything. We might guess. But the answer is only known by god.
Love others, as god loves you.
---Tristan on 3/21/09|
Strongaxe-- The egg and sperm occurred spontaneously, they were not man-made, and they were combined in the natural way...Only the location where they were combined was unatural.
---Donna66 on 3/20/09|
Many women have trouble conceiving normally, so doctors take their eggs and their husbands' sperm and fertilize them in a test tube - hence the term "test tube babies". These are then implanted and carried to term normally by their mothers. However, by your reasoning, one could argue that these babies ALSO "do not occur spontaneously", and are thus similarly "man made" (since the mothers are "naturally barren").
---StrongAxe on 3/20/09|
StrongAxe -- Identical twins are a legitimate comparison to clones.(not transplanted DNA) The main difference between clones and identical twins would be in the way they are formed.
Cloning has, so far, produced some pretty strange products, besides some who were an exact functiong copy of the original. My main objection to cloning is that it is life that never occurs spontaneosly. To me, a clone is life that is man-made, not divinely ordained.
---Donna66 on 3/19/09|
I still fail to see your point. A twin has the same genotype as the other twin. A clone has the same genotype as the DNA donor. Yet each develops his own body, his own personality. What is the difference?
---StrongAxe on 3/18/09|
Strong Axe--- a bone marrow transplant, a "change of blood type" (which is much more complex than just A, B, AB, O and Rh+ or Rh-) does not change a person's genotype. "The life is in the blood" is a Biblical concept which is true where metabolism and oxygenation is concerned. But on a cellular level it is incomplete.
Occasionally a new-born will be given a life-saving complete blood tranfusion of a type different from his own. But check the genetic profile from his cheek cells (the usual source),and it will differ from that of the transfused blood and will remain unchanged.
The genes, in their unique configuration, are repeated within every body cell from the moment of conception until death.
---Donna66 on 3/17/09|
StrongAxe-- P.S. Just to avoid confusion, DNA is the same as "genotype"..just a different term.
---Donna66 on 3/17/09|
So what is the determining factor? the DNA? If you give someone with leukemia a bone marrow transplant, the DNA in the blood changes - and the person can even change blood type (and remember, "the life of the soul is in the blood") - so does this change things?
---StrongAxe on 3/16/09|
A patient who has had a heart transplant has not had a change of DNA (only his new heart has DNA different from his own). Identical twins arise from the division of a fertilized egg, but both twins develop naturally and simutaneosly..neither is a clone of the other.
A clone is a "copy" of an aready developed individual.
It isn't transplanted DNA (there is no being to transplant to). It doesn't occur naturally. I think a clone might have a "personality" (much of which is determined by DNA). But I doubt it would have a "spirit,". The source of the "spirit" is SUPERnatural, and I believe it comes from God.
---Donna66 on 3/13/09|
Just as identical twins are "wired" to have similar physical and personality traits, but despite that, they often develop very different personalities - clones would also be this way. They might have similar personalities based on the physical structure of their brains, but their personalities would be thier own.
The 1978 movie "The Boys From Brazil" was a cautionary tale about some scientists making several clones of Hitler, and attempting to make their personalities as similar to the original's as possible by exposing them to similar life experiences (for example, by having them raised by authoritarian fathers, and having those fathers die by violence at an early age).
---StrongAxe on 3/13/09|
You get identical twins when one original fertilized egg gives rise to two babies. So, I can see that each of those two twins is a "clone" from the original egg. Each has the exact same genetic make-up as the other, but ones are finding how identical twins can each have one's own unique personalities. So . . . if one has a clone of oneself, I can see that the clone will have one's own unique personality. Why would the personalities be different? One possibility is each person is involved with different spirits > Satan will have different evil spirits dealing with each individual, and God will be creative with each one. We cannot dictate what God "would" allow or do (o:
---Bill_bila5659 on 3/13/09|
If the clone do not have spirit it would not be human, all human have spirit.
---mike on 3/11/09|
And just who "makes" clones? Sure, they are made in a laboratory, but all the pieces parts (the egg, the donor DNA, the mitochondrial DNA, etc.) that they are made from come from elsewhere. A clone is basically an egg cell with a DNA transplant. A person who has a heart transplant (say) is no more "made" by his surgeon than a car with a new paint job is "made" by the painter.
---StrongAxe on 3/10/09|
So-called test-tube babies are as human as any other baby.A human sperm fertilzed a human egg, the same as normally occurs in the body of a woman.
Clones are entirely different! They are "copied" directly from the cells of another body that is already fully developed. They are a "replica"...not the original formed by God. I do not believe human beings will ever be successfully cloned. I do not think God will allow it.
---Donna66 on 3/7/09|
If it looks like a duck, then it is a duck.:) I think the same is true of humans. If it looks like a human, then God had something to do with giving it a soul. These matters are in Gods hands even if man thinks himself clever. If God allows a clone then He will love and protect it:). The ultimate salvation of a clone would be faith in Jesus Christ.
---jody on 3/7/09|
"do you believe they would automatically have souls and spirits and be able to obtain salvation as we are?"
Yes, If the cloned person can move on their own, & rationally think for themselves, the Spirit of God and the soul of clone are manifest, for only the Father can give life or the ability to be rationally aware. life animates the body, awareness activates the mind, the will, and the emotions.
As far as salvation is concerned, salvation is a gift and only the Father determines who will or will not receive that gift.
---Josef on 3/7/09|
StrongAx: The test tube babies are still created from God. Because God made the eggs in the female, not man. Man cannot do what God has done and is doing. They can all their might but they will fail. Just like the old saying, A professional built the Titanic but an armature built the Ark. We already have people killing themselves and other people, they take God's job away from him. Now we have people who want to try and clone another human being, again they are taking away God's job. What's next?
---Rebecca_D on 3/6/09|
So do you think it's perfectly fine to go out and shoot people who were born as test-tube babies, or to harvest fertilized eggs grown in test tubes for embryonic stem cell research because (since "God didn't make them") they have no souls?
And what happens when such people have children (the usual way)? Do they not have souls either?
---StrongAxe on 3/6/09|
Well, see again. The just can be punished for what the unjust does.
---catherine on 3/6/09|
Well it sure isn't the fault of the ones cloned so I dont' see them suffering eternity without God JUST BECAUSE they are cloned. God knows who they are.
---Mary on 3/5/09|
StongeAxe: Yes I know about identical twins. They have the same genetics. But God made them by his hand. When man tries to make a human, it is done by man's hands, not Gods. Big difference. God can do this and more because he is God and there isn't anything he can't do, except lie. And man's abilities are limited, but they keep pushing and pushing until they make a huge mess, and expect God to clean up the mess their in.
---Rebecca_D on 3/5/09|
Maybe both the clone & original will be tethered to the same soul & spiritual destiny. But all that is Just Speculation!!
God's Salvation Plan(the fate & destiny of a Living Soul) isn't reliant on DNA.
The Life animating spiritual breath, of a Living Soul which God has breathed into all of mankind is contingent only upon the breath God breathed into Adam: and Salvation is determined by that natural body being sown in weakness, to be raised in power: Saved by Faith in Christ.
Just remember, All who dwell upon the earth who don't attain unto Heaven shall be found worshiping the beast: for their names weren't written in the Book of Life, of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world. Rev.13:4,8
---Shawn_M.T. on 3/5/09|
Let's be clear about this, in vitro fertilization (test tube babies) and any other form of artificial insemination is not cloning! Artificial insemination involves the union of a sperm and an ovum.
Cloning involves the creation of a fetus (up till now only animals hopefully) from ONLY the material taken from one side of the equation, the ovum.
One definition is "The production of a cloned embryo by transplanting the nucleus of a somatic cell into an ovum,"
---bruce5656 on 3/5/09|
If a person's cloned embryo can't be a human, then it's OK to use a cloned embryo for stem cells.
Have we not had "test tube" babies who have turned out to have personalities? So, I'd say God gave them souls, though man started them in tubes. IF a clone makes it to function like a born human, I'd say God has given him or her a soul > man did not do THIS, in any case. And identical twins have "clone" genes > they are identical, yet identical twins can have very different personalities. So, I can see that personality has spiritual roots NOT dictated by physical genes. And God can take a clone for His purpose. Man does NOT decide, Halleluiah (o:
---Bill_bila5659 on 3/5/09|
I must say no! Only God can put a Spirit in man.
---catherine on 3/5/09|
folks,any other ideas on this--not the moral issue,but the issue if it were to occur-since not made between dna of a man and woman but the dna of one person,who originally came from man and woman,does God automatically breathe His Spirit into them and their soul/spirts attain heaven?or is it contingent on the original person they were cloned from?Could the original be hell bound and the clone saved?
---judy on 3/5/09|
AND WHAT ABOUT that will be the way of the antichrist enetering?
---Andy on 3/5/09|
To Whosoever has an ear to hear?
John 1:3 All things were made by God, and without Him was not any thing made that was made.
Judy, If you can't hear the Discerned answer of the Lord's Will for your question in John 1:3, then keep praying!
Good Day to You Sister & God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 3/4/09|
Acts 7:48 "However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands, as the prophet says:
---dsda on 3/4/09|
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I agree with Katavasia seems that cloning is very much like "test tube" babies ...sort of ironic we brutally murder innocent babies in the womb ....create all kinds of fertility "solutions" ....and out the other side we are cloning people ...almost laughable how humans without God perform endless atrocities on mankind
cloning won't go very far ...as society is deteriorating so fast ...society is becoming much like days of Noe ...once we sink lower we begin to usher in return of Christ who will bind the god of this world and the prison of deception he has on the whole world ...Christ RULING the earth will end mankinds perversions given to them by Satan
---Rhonda on 3/4/09|
Steveng ... You have totally misinterpreted what I said. I did not say we already had too many bodies.
I meant why does anyone think it is necessary to create a new way of making them?
And if we do want more, as you suggest, the way to do that is to allow children to be born & not be aborted.
The thing about cloning is that is seems (if ever it happens) to have the purpose of creating particular types of persons (slaves or leaders) or to be a way of perpetuating one's own person ... a sign of extreme arrogance
---alan8566_of_UK on 3/4/09|
A cloned animals still goes through the same process that all living things go through. There genetics were just tinkered with. God knows their arrival before any of us were even born. He knows the very thoughts in our heads and what's in-store of the the future. They have souls and they have a place in heaven.
---Bruce on 3/4/09|
How can we claim to even know? Whether they have spirits is a seperate issue from the moral issue of cloning. They can not help or control the method that brought them into this world. I would lean toward saying yes they do have spirits and souls. Do people created through artificial insemination or invitro fertilization have souls? They would still all be knit together in the womb the same way. I don't think God would withold a spirit from them. Also, to say they have no spirit opens up a whole realm of moral abuses like using them for soldiers or robots.
---obewan on 3/4/09|
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Rebecca_D and alan8566of_UK:
Clones have been around since time immemorial. They occur in nature all the time, called identical twins. While identical genetics predicate similar physical development and similar brain development (yielding similar personalities), twins are individuals with thier own minds and personalities, and often quite different ones at that. Why should man-made clones be any different?
Whether an initial fertilized egg is made by parents (via sex) or by parents and doctor (by fertilizing egg and sperm in a test tube) or by a doctor (implanting donor DNA into clone egg), development of that single egg into a living breathing human being is the same mind-bogglingly complex "miracle of life".
---StrongAxe on 3/4/09|
Cloned people do NOT have spirits and will NEVER be able to obtain salvation. The Spirit is God's breath placed into a person at conseption. Clones are made by human hands, NOT God's hand, therefore have no spirit. It is just people trying to play God, and we should just let God do His job, He does it so well, and even so perfect.
---Leslie on 3/4/09|
I do not believe that clones will have a GOD-Breathed soul and spirit. For, this cloning is pure manipulation on some arrogant men and women's behalf. GOD doesn't need anyone's "help" to create a new human being. That is, other than the normal act of pro-creation involved, that HE instituted, between a man and a woman, etc. I believe that the clones could be demonically "possessed" for the purpose of wicked deceptions. I'm sure, in time, we'll see.
---Gordon on 3/4/09|
** No, because these clones were made by man and their machines, not by God's own hand.**
Following your line of reasoning, Rebecca, babies conceived through IVF would not have souls or spirits either, as they likewise are made by man and their (sic) machines.
---katavasia on 3/4/09|
the soul is a part of our natural body? a thing we did not know before
the spirit was given to humanity once for all, and that now at birth a part of the persons spirit seperates itself and forms a new spirit.
a cloned person reads the bible and repents accepting CHRIST.
or what if THE first cloned person needs a spirit and the devil enters in him so becomming the ANTICHRIST.
no matter what we think.any way only experience can teah us.
QUITE frightning isnt it?
---Andy on 3/4/09|
Any type of cloning is following the ways of Satan, the evil one, in their trying and wanting to be God.
Remember, Satan was cast down from Heaven because Satan rebeled against God and wanted to have authority over God.
---Rob on 3/4/09|
Cloned... by science, or by group-think...? God bless.
---JohnnyB on 3/3/09|
Wow, never thought about that before. Hopefully the Lord will come back before it is an issue. Fascinating subject.
---Susan_Ferrell on 3/3/09|
Rebecca ... I tend to agree with you ... but if that were the case, would not they have to be without character ... gthose bits of our personality which come from our soul or spirit.
If they had no soul or spirit they would be without conscience or character ... good or bad. So they could not be a person.
It would be the cruellest thng to have created them.
The whole idea is monstrous
---alan8566_of_UK on 3/4/09|
alan8566of_UK: "Why should we want to do this ... there are enough bodies around already. "
Why do you bother with a few clones? The amount of aborted babies since 1973 (Roe v. Wade) total 1,512,000,000. This means if abortion was illegal, we would have 1,512,000,000 more people living in the world. Far fewer than few clones.
---Steveng on 3/3/09|
The whole idea is frightening.
Why should we want to do this ... there are enough bodies around already. Is the idea to perpetuate or multiply the whole person of an individual, including his character?
Maybe Richard Dawkins thinks it would be good to clone himself.
But if it does happen, I suppose it could be the proof of the Predestination doctrine, except that it will be man who has created people for glory or destruction.
---alan8566of_UK on 3/3/09|
No, because these clones were made by man and their machines, not by God's own hand. There is a big difference. They do not have any spirit that God gave them. They better be careful because they are treading on dangerous grounds trying to create man as God did. It is a dangerous thing to fall into the hands of a living God.
---Rebecca_D on 3/3/09|