Committed Christians will always disagree over points of Scripture. We are human, don't know much, and see things differently. However the differences between two Bible-based Christians are mostly quite minor. Missunderstandings aside.
From long experience here, and elsewhere the major disagreements here are between Bible-based Christians and liberals who reject much of Scripture as historical truth. We say the Bible is God's truth, they say it contains truth but don't always use 'truth' in the dictionary way.
Secondly there are cult members and anti-Christians blogging here and anyone who loves God and His word will battle with wolves within the fold, those who seek to destroy faith.
---Warwick on 6/10/09|
We should focus on holiness and eternal life.
Paul said that he made the personal decision to know nothing about devotion except Christ and Him crucified (because that's all we really need be concerned with). We can choose to do the same (wise decision).
Christians like to disagree and have controversy about many things (in order to develop "theories" and become "masters of knowledge" with fanciful "interpretations"...PRIDE).
When my parents told me to do my homework, take out the garbage, etc., they didn't want me to "interpret" it to mean something else.
"Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is".
---more_excellent_way on 6/10/09|
Why do believers disagree. First as pointed out we have free will.
To some extent it depends on the disagreement. Some wish to stress the soverintiy of GOD. So they end up with OSAS and follow the example of Calvin. Others want to exalt grace and follow the example of Luther.
Some want others to tell them what to believe and like to follow tradition and Pagentry. They never think about what they believe.
We need to be dedicated to following JESUS and loving others.
---Samuel on 6/10/09|
Tom2 and MEW--How do you account for the fact that Christians differ in doctrine on issues such as pre-trib rapture, mid-trib and post-trib... Man's free will vs. Gods total sovereinty...eternal security vs maintaining salvation. These disagreements have existed for centuries and have been argued by both scholars and devout believers.
How do you account for this? You must admit that the Bible isn't entirely clear at times, though it is surly God's inspired Word. GOD knows what He means, but the understanding of man may be imperfect. If that's what you mean by "not open to interpretation", I agree.
If you mean "Any one who disagrees with me is wrong", I'd say your attitude is wrong.
---Donna66 on 6/9/09|
From my experience many Christians give up when they come to believe the Bible is not historically true.
A few generations ago most people in western countries went to church weekly. Their children continued to go to church but less often and with less conviction than their parents. By the third generation few went to church and even fewer believe God's word to be absolute truth.
What happened? God's opponents (ultimately Satan) began promoting ideas about long ages and naturalistic evolution. It has become the overwhelming western world-view. Sadly much of the church, including Bible colleges, have not resisted this lie, but accepted evolution, squeezing God in here and there.
Shame on the church!
---Warwick on 6/9/09|
I agree Mima (6/2) & Michael (6/6). Sadly, the modern-day, "ringmaster church" is big business, i.e., churchianity, for many who minister a counterfeit, social gospel (2 Tim 3) -- not the Bible gospel of Jesus Christ.
The believing Church (Body of Christ) not only talks-the-talk, but walks-the-walk before a lost & dying world. (Matt. 5:13-16, Jas. 1:22)
Unbelieving churchgoers aren't saved though many may think so after joining the rolls of a church congregation. It's a trick (deception) of the devil! So, after leaving the church-house, they really don't have a light to shine & that further confuses non-churchgoing unbelievers because they think if one goes to "church" he/she must be a Christian.
---Leon on 6/8/09|
True Christians will never give up. These times may make silent Christians speak up and stand up for our Jesus. According to the Bible, when times are bad, Christians grow. The realm of O'Bama won't last forever. We must speak up and see that he doesn't do the damage that will change our nation forever.
---Digimom on 6/8/09|
Many Christians are giving up because they thought you can win the World and make it Christian through Politics.
When in fact if is living like and acting like and loving like JESUS that wins the world. But that requires taking up our cross and following JESUS every day.
---Samuel on 6/8/09|
Hello everyone!!!!!!!!!!! I AM STILL HERE BY THE MIGHTY POWER AND GRACE OF GOD. I HAVE NOT GIVEN UP,YET!!!!!
DEVIL..YOU ARE A LIAR..I AM SAVED AND GLAD ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!
JESUS IS LORD OF MY LIFE AND WILL BE FOR ALL ETERNITY!!!!!!!!!
I HOPE THERE ARE OTHER CHRISTIANS WHO ARE STANDING WITH ME!!!!!!!
PRAISE GOD ALMIGHTY YOU ARE POWERFUL AND STRONG IN ME TODAY AND EVERYDAY!!!!!
I CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST WHO STRENGTHENS ME!!!!!!!!!!
---Robyn on 6/8/09|
Maybe Christians are "giving up" because it is finally being realized that we SHOULD NOT "interpret" the scriptures, yet that is exactly what we are taught to do (who can make sense out of that?). There are many things in the traditional teachings that don't make sense and simply don't have any Godly spiritual value at all.
The creator's intent/desire is that we live together in peaceful coexistence.
Godly spirituality IS "peaceful coexistence".
Instead of understanding scripture "as is", we "interpret".
---more_excellent_way on 6/7/09|
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That's what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.--DC Talk
---MIchael on 6/6/09|
WOW MAN it hust really erks me when I read someone write. THE SCRIPTURES ARE OPEN TO INTERPRETATION. No they aren,t.NO NO NO NO THEY AREN,T
---tom2 on 6/6/09|
Christians are "giving up" because the TRUTH about God has never been taught in the institutional "churches" (the true church is SINGULAR),...but then again, many "christians" do not want to know the real truth about Jesus and ETERNAL LIFE (because it is much easier to be be TOLD what to do instead of think for one's self..."conscience", Hebrews 9:14).
Look up the word "CONSCIENCE" in the concordance.
God wants YOU (the REAL you), not a copy of the bible or an "instruction book OBEYER"...He wants those who will WILLINGLY do what He wishes/likes. Learn to DISCERN (discerning "sword") as a Godly person should (Ephesians 6:17).
Verses are from the RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 6/2/09|
What statistic says that Christianity here is shrinking? I would be careful with the data since most of the reports I have seen focus on the exodus from mainline denominations. Some of them have seen serious decline, but mainstream mega churches have seen a boom. There is both decline and growth in my opinion, and I have seen reports that young people are returning to church. Just not your father's brand of church.
---obewan on 6/2/09|
There is a darkness descending on the modern-day church, it is my contention that this darkness has been brought on by the churches themselves. Today we have every conceivable idea being preached from the pulpits, which in and of itself is not a bad thing, but when the people have no degree of discernment false teachings attract great numbers. I know of several evangelistic very expensive outreach programs that are nothing more than social gatherings or social outings.
Some of you may be old enough to remember what we used to call here in the Midwest "Bush Harbor meetings" which were
outdoor meeting for the sole purpose of winning souls to the kingdom. Wish we had some today!
---mima on 6/2/09|
I was under the misguided impression that the USA did not have religious elections. Perhaps, someone could correct my faulty thinking.
On the matter of whether christians have given up or not, that is something entirely different.
If there is any falling away, one of the primary reason is that the professional christians have exchanged Biblical doctrine for political dogma. And since political dogma is mere rhetoric, there is no power to keep human beings, human.
---Janze on 6/2/09|
I agree 100%.
And part of the reason they are falling away is because they are not told they are suppose to put on the whole armor of God and resist the enemy.
They aren't told that they must endure to the end. They aren't told that hardships will come to those who truly follow Christ.
They are only told the good parts.
When they find out it is not easy to walk the straight and narrow path, they give up.
It is sad really because they should know that this world is passing away and their reward for running the race with Christ is far better than anything this dying world could ever offer.
---miche3754 on 6/2/09|
churches are emptying out as a sign of prophecy of the end times.
---tom2 on 6/2/09|
David~ THANK YOU, and thank you AGAIN for sharing the encouraging and inspiring words from the word of God!! We need more people like you here to share encouragement and strengthen other Christians to seek God's word alone for truth and stand on that mighty Rock.
I can see by the way you write, that you are not afraid to share the FULL truth of the gospel message. God bless you for that for it awakens us all to the full truths of the Bible we all need to so desperately hear and be aware of.
Thanks for shining your light, and may it bring light to others. Continue to share God's full truths and to share encouragement, for when we read your post, we can see what a true Christian is meant to be. God bless you!
---Anne on 4/21/09|
Hold firm. Stand fast. I shall not be moved. Endure the race, keeping your eyes on the mark of the prize in Christ Jesus! Faith without works is dead. Faith comes by hearing. Hold fast to that which you first believed, or that which you heard. Resist the devil. Give no place to the enemy. Many are called, few are chosen. The path to righteousness is narrow, but the highway to destruction is wide! In the end times, many will turn away from the faith. Are you one of those turning away? Hold fast unto your faith. Do not be moved. Many before us held onto their faith and never saw the promises. Perhaps we shall. Choose you this day whom you will serve. No one can serve two masters! These truths we hold to be self-evident. Shalom...
---David on 4/20/09|
Satan had another go at my computer on Saturday. MY email refused to work and the help-line could not understand why.
Then my virus protection said it wasn't working.
Next time I switched on, the computer would not come fully alive until it ran about twenty minutes of update. After that, it worked perfectly. Was that Satan trying to deceive me into thinking he was not responsible for the original problem?
But Satan had another go at my car ... my parking permit somehow was not displayed properly & i got a 25 pound sterling fine
---alan8566_of_UK on 4/20/09|
Get a Macintosh. Satan doesn't eat Apples.
---ralph7477 on 4/20/09|
My computer has seemingly been on one continuous download recently. I looked and found out it has bloated itself with its own system requirements, and left me 4% free space. It was giving me the freeze most of each day.
Other faiths are growing so much because weird people want to experiment with different religions instead of going to church and learning about the one and only real God. Prevelant witchcraft is another reason churches are emptying out. Babyboomers & the new generation-some want to be witches. They figure it's no shame and no blame anymore. Some of the old church members are dying out, and churches get emptier.
---Betty on 4/20/09|
Well, let me tell you a thing or two. It is not the Saint who is in madness. It is the unbeliever who Satan can use. I was correct in all of my assumptions, too. I may not get it correct everytime, but, who can blame me? God doesn't. There, bite the dust!
---catherine on 4/20/09|
Satan attacked my computer last week as well. It is called a back door trojan program.
When all else fails blame Satan. The Saints really need to stop the madness!
---pg1 on 4/20/09|
katavasia-- You may be post-trib if you wish.
Others may hold different views. The Scripture is open to interpretation.**
Jesus is post-trib, too.
The parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13 makes it plain that the wheat is NOT gathered up 7 days (or 1007 days) before harvest time.
Furthmore, the parable of the dragnet in the same chapter makes it plain that the bad fish are the ones to go sailing through the air.
---katavasia on 4/16/09|
Bruce ... if it is the devil atrtacking Catherine's computer, she is not alone.
I have in the last threee months had breaksdowns on:
My new laptop
My broadband connection, and took with it my phone connection for two days.
And, my mobile phone dropped itself into the washing machine, the pump in my pond failed and my , and my central heating pump broke down car radio has failed.
---alan8566_of_UK on 4/15/09|
Please explain how it is that of all the billions of computers in the world Satan personally chooses to mess with yours?
Satan is not omnipresent as is God. He is a creature. A finite created being. What makes you think that your computer is worthy of his personal attention?
---Bruce5656 on 4/15/09|
Well, the devil keeps messing with my computer. Don't ask, how I know. I know. Anyways, if you really belong to God, you will not give-up. Some believes that God isn't saving a lot of people now adays. And I believe this, too. I do not know why, except, perhaps, the heart of man has gotten so very callous. God can not reach man anymore.
---catherine on 4/14/09|
how is the election related to christians giving up?
---mike on 4/14/09|
If we go through the tribulation before Jesus' returned (post- tribulation theory) we would necessarily have to receive the mark of the beast (without which no man can buy or sell) and all who receive the mark of the beast are lost go to hell. Who being can escape and live through the tribulation?
---mima on 4/13/09|
katavasia-- You may be post-trib if you wish.
Others may hold different views. The Scripture is open to interpretation.
---Donna66 on 4/11/09|
**I see the signs of the times. I'm sure Jesus is coming soon for His Church. But I love my country and the (Christian) principles on which it was built. And I'll continue to
support those values, and vote those values, no matter what party holds the power in D.C.
I look forward to the elections of 2010 and 2012, if Jesus doesn't come first.**
We go through the tribulation before Jesus returns.
---katavasia on 4/11/09|
I wasn't aware that "Christians" were running in any election or that "Christians" lost anything. Doesn't the Bible say we are more than conquerers through Christ Jesus?
I see the signs of the times. I'm sure Jesus is coming soon for His Church. But I love my country and the (Christian) principles on which it was built. And I'll continue to
support those values, and vote those values, no matter what party holds the power in D.C.
I look forward to the elections of 2010 and 2012, if Jesus doesn't come first.
---Donna66 on 4/10/09|
TIMOTHY...I never said I don't care about politics. I care deeply, enough to vote in every election since I was old enough and that has been over 40 years. I did not vote for Obama, but that doesn't change the fact that he is now the president. That also doesn't mean that the Christians somehow lost the election. Personally, I don't think we had any true Christian running in 2008.
---SusieB on 4/10/09|
SusieB: Unfortunately I fear that many Christians share your viewpoint of not caring about politics, social issues, or anything that goes on outside of their Christian circle. There are people outright blaspeming the name of God and all we do is eagerly await Jesus to come back and deal with them. Vengence is the Lord's however the defense of the faith is up to us. I believe that this is a call to action, we need to once again pick up our Bibles and fight for what's right. Hence my question....
---TIMOTHY on 4/9/09|
The trends on a TV documentary was shocking Countries that started out evangelising the Third World they themselves now need evangelising to. Those Countries have accepted Christianity up to 98% for Africa where as in England the percentage was about 68% and Fiji was much higher.
I can only speculate because I have no real figures up to date but I would imagine it's all to do with people not accepting the word for what it is....and changing the meaning to suit their life style well you cannot serve God and the devil and it shows!
---Carla3939 on 4/8/09|
I don't believe that Christians have "given up" just because of the outcome of the last U.S. Presidential election. Some people might have been disappointed at the outcome. Even if the outcome were different, America would still have the same problems. I believe that the nation as a whole has "drifted away from God". He is waiting for the entire nation to "wake up" and return to him.
No, I don't believe that America sees traditional Christianity as the problem with Pre-Obama America. Like other nations in the world, America isn't following God's ways because people have decided to follow their own ways instead. ALL people have to decide whose ways we are going to follow.
---Sag on 4/8/09|
the reasons are
how can christianity apply to the real world? all you hear is SIN that produces guilt, shame, blame fear. where is the GOOD news
then christians does not practice christianity but hypocrisy. they would pt to sin but they would do the same sin.
then use the 'ye not judge me' defense.
then when you fail other christians would add insult to injury. they will say 'you lack faith, you have a sin, you should deny yourSELF, you did not give your 10%, you did it to your self'
who would want to have that kind of stress.
pastors have no stress/worry bec. they do not work but they have multi$$$ / luxury homes. that is why they can PRAISE THE LORD
---mike on 4/8/09|
TIMOTHY...I understand what you're saying. But, most Christians I know are not worried about who gets elected. They know their destination in the end. We don't stop preaching, teaching and witnessing for the Lord no matter who is in office. We are watching for Jesus' return, but not sitting around waiting.
---SusieB on 4/8/09|
What an interesting set of responses however I think that I have my answer. The "Christian community" truly does appear to be experiencing an extreme identity crisis in America. There are various, and in some cases, conflicting opinions about what the identity of the "Christian Community" should become. The media is confused, The Republican Party is confused, and now the public is confused. I will be interested to see what will emerge as the definition of a "Christian" in the minds of Americans from both the truly saved and the unsaved.
---TIMOTHY on 4/8/09|
Christianity is not shrinking,that I know of. Who told you that? I am a Christian and I have not and never will, give up on Jesus. Losing an election has nothing to do with my faith. Christianity and politics are worlds apart. What exactly are you trying to say in your post? Other faiths may be growing but they better be in line with the Word of God and living according to His will. Not all faiths are Christian. Christianity is the way. Not Buddha,Hara Krisnan,Ba'hai etc...JW's.You must be born again. That's it! Gods way.
---Robyn on 4/8/09|
What election did Christians lose?
---pg1 on 4/8/09|
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Christians today are asking themselves questions about their faith. What denominational "church" is the true church? Is one right over the other? Today's christians are confused more than any time in history.
Denominational "churches" are the biggest delusion created by Satan, the father of confusion. Christian bicker among each other saying their church is the true church. They even bicker within the same denomination say that their church is better, or they have better entertainment, or any dozens of other excuses.
We are surely living in the end days where even the elect is fooled by this delusion. If the elect can be fooled, how much more the chriatians?
---Steveng on 4/7/09|
Christians today don't need denominational churches. It's because of these denominational "churches, christians will not recognize the two prophets sent by God. Christians will mock the two prophets because they don't conform to their denominational doctrines.
Whatever happened to a simple christian lifestyle where we DO the two commandments Jesus spoke of and meet on a daily basis? Do an online KJV bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag." Living a christian life is a 24/7 lifestyle - not a once a week pep talk dished out by denominational "churches."
---Steveng on 4/7/09|
Are you saying that the spiritual health of America is based on who gets elected president?
Consider that McCain is a remarried divorcee, as was Ronald Regan.
George Bush fils cynically manipulated the religious sensibilities of conservative Christians to get into office--which is what Antichrist will do.
---katavasia on 4/7/09|
Christians didn't lose the election. Christians voted for both sides. I go to a small Baptist church where most members voted for Mr. Obama. It happens that half our members are African American. God bless.
---JohnnyB on 4/7/09|
It is a popular remark among christians,
that is, to wait upon divine intervention to solve all problems.The shrinking of faithful servants is common and we were instructed to continue our faith when we recognize it in spite of an apparent world crash.Happy are we that keep faith while persecution escalates.This is a symbol of the wheat and the tares where the tares attempt to choke the wheat yet the wheat faithfully holds their roots in a rich soil foundation .
As far as shrinking christianity,yes ,I can see it and when the inquisitive mind asks God to lead me to a good teacher ,what church will God reveal to this mind to present his/herself to?
---earl on 4/7/09|
SusieB: I am happy for your revival however statistically that is not typical of America at the moment according to the latest polls. According to Gallup as reported by most of the major news networks, less than 40% of the participants say that they associate with any one faith with Christianity showing the largest statistical percentage loss. And yes, it is the general opinion across America that "traditional" Christians lost the last election to moderate centrism. However the question still remains, are we losing ground in America and does the last election reflect a growing anti traditional sentiment?
---TIMOTHY on 4/7/09|
SAG: You make an interesting point that people might be religion swapping to the more popular flavor of the month. There are many questions surrounding that observation however my main question would be, does America see traditional Christianity as the problem with Pre-Obama America?
---TIMOTHY on 4/7/09|
I too have often thought that Christians are "giving up". However, I prayed about things and God hasn't changed at all. What has changed is how people, including Christians, view God. He is patiently waiting for people to come back to HIM.
People choosing to join other religions doesn't help either them or God. We can only pray that they will turn to Jesus Christ before he returns. Then it will be too late. Sorry folks! EVERYONE has to make their "own" decision to be in God's kingdom.
I'm strongly for Christianity if I'm the only person in my church that has that conviction. It just means that I'm going to try that much harder to "win the lost" before Jesus Christ returns. Blessings!
---Sag on 4/7/09|
I'm from the UK, so am not 100% familiar with US politics
But you seem to be saying that Christians lost the election?
---alan8566_of_UK on 4/7/09|
"Matthew 24, 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
It's Biblical! It has nothing to do with you thinking somehow the Christians lost an election. The church where we attend is experiencing a revival right now with new people coming every Sunday. This is a small town, yet we are seeing 60-80 children and teens on Wednesday nights. The church had to buy a bus to transport more.
---SusieB on 4/7/09|
"Christianity" is based on MONEY. Even though it's participants/followers don't wish to see that, it shows, and unbelievers simply cannot find a sincere reason to become a participant.
"Christianity" is probably the only faith in the world that doesn't include a philosophy/teaching of self improvement INNER wisdom that teaches a "self" to be more peaceful and respectful of humanity.
Jesus taught that we should know ourselves and that we need to be able to identify with and relate to "I am who I am" (Exodus 3:14).
Just as a side mention, original Jesus devotion was called "the way" (Acts 24:22, 11:26), that is why I put the word "Christianity" in quotes.
---more_excellent_way on 4/7/09|
The Lord cautions us against "self abasement" (Colossians 2:18) so we can share our true self with Him in a truly PERSONAL relationship (He yearns jealously, James 4:5). He tells us to live QUIETLY not bothering our fellow human being in order to keep the peace (1 Thessalonians 4:11).
He is practical and tells us that we should love other people ONLY as much as we love ourselves (not MORE so we make them an icon/hero and abase/belittle ourselves).
"I am who I am" is The Father's "FOREVER" name and we can only know His son PERSONALLY if we share with Him WHO WE REALLY ARE. It is OUR character that should mirror His...
"the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit".
---more_excellent_way on 4/7/09|
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The Bible does talk about a great falling away.
---a_freind on 4/7/09|