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Bad Fruit Is Not A Christian

If a Christian was not producing 'Good Fruit', would you question their walk with God?

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 ---miche3754 on 4/14/09
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--MarkV:

Amen~Brother, Thanks for sharing!

We're to be watchful for evil fruits which are Adultery, Fornication, Uncleanness, Lasciviousness, Idolatry, Witchcraft, Hatred, Variance, Emulations, Wrath, Strife, Seditions, Heresies, Envyings, Murders, Drunkenness & Revellings, none of which President Obama manifest.

It's Very Clear to the whole world that President Obama is always diligent to walks-in Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith, Meekness & Temperance(Gal.5:21) These being the Fruits of the Spirit is how we know President Obama's doctrine, according to scriptures, is True.

The only time the viewing of Fruits becomes judgmental, is when viewed upon out of context of the Truth.
---Shawn_M.T. on 4/27/09


Debbie, please forgive me if you did not intend to mean what I thought you meant. Sometimes when we write we make small mistakes that sound different then what we really mean. Peace to you
---MarkV. on 4/27/09


MarkV:

I'm sorry, but you have misinterpreted my statement when I said, "I will continue to keep you and all those who are lost in my constant prayer."

I specified "you" as being Shawn and then also those who are lost. I was not implying Shawn was one of the lost. I pray for many people (the lost, confused, sick, in need of prayer, etc.). Sorry for the misunderstanding. I do not judge others, I may KNOW them by their fruits, but I do not judge them. To be honest, I do not know enough about Shawn to know much about his fruits, so I could not even guess if he is saved or not. This whole post was not about just one person.

Hope I have clarified!

Blessings.
---Debbie on 4/26/09


Debbie, thanks for your answer. The one thing I saw from your answer to Shawn T that I oppose of was when you said,
"I will continue to "keep you and all those who are lost" in my constant prayer. Not in judgment mind you (because you do so hate that word), but rather in love.
---Debbie on 4/21/09"

In that answer you conclude that Shawn is not saved and needs to come to Christ. I believe it is a judging statement since no one knows who is save but God. What I believe Shawn is stating is that as Christians we should be edifying, helping, inspiring others to be more Christ like, instead of judging the wrongs, we should be up-lifting the rights of each one.
---MarkV. on 4/26/09


Shawn T. My second post was not posted, sorry. I wanted to say I believe you are correct in the subject of judging others, since we don't know who is a child of God and who is not. I see the same been done with Obama. I did not vote for him but have no right to judge his salvation. And we should pray not only for him but for every president God allows to lead our nation.
Because in the end I know God has permitted him to be there now, and will permit whoever is next. Trusting in the will of God and not our will, causes us less problems, Peace to you and thank you for so many great answers to others. We now have many more in one accord,
---MarkV. on 4/25/09




MarkV:

Well said and what I have been saying in this blog. Scripture says we should KNOW them, not we should JUDGE them. There is a big difference, but some assume that to mean the same and that by KNOWING them, we are also judging. I suppose that is also true sometimes.

Anyway, well said and thank you for backing what I had said earlier. I think I allowed the post to get off course when I made a comment out of context and confused other posters.
---Debbie on 4/24/09


Hello brother Shawn T, on another blog I apologize to you and you did not know why. The reason I did that is because I had done the same thing with Eloy, permitted my flesh to allow it to be moved by what he said about Jesus and not the fruits Scripture speaks of. So I showed my anger towards him.
"You will know them by their fruits" Matt. 7:16 is many times taken as an excuse to judge others of their actions when in the context of the passage it is talking about false doctrines because false doctrines minifest the false prophets wickedness. To indentify them. It was never meant to be to judge other peoples lives as we so many times do. In the flesh we take the liberty to Judge and talk about others.
---MarkV. on 4/24/09


--Debbie:

Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the Way: and he that hateth reproof shall die(Pro.15:10).

Debbie, I Pray you continue in the 'Way' of the Correction of God's Word I've shared in this discussion(or as you flagrantly addressed it, 'Argument').

To avoid any murmuring the next time you wish to doubt the Christianity of President Obama or anyone else, do to looking at things according to their outward appearance, I Hope you remember(John 7:24) & forsake not this reproof from St.Paul

Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? if any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 4/22/09


Hi Anne--oops! I goofed, thank you for clearing that up for me, I can be rather sensitive sometimes and misunderstand--just ask my ex lol! Thanks and God bless, Mary
---Mary on 4/22/09


Mary~ Trav was not insulting women...he was repeating a quote that Kathr said on one of the 'salvation blogs' at an earlier time and responding to it in a sense. Hope that clears things up and God bless.
---Anne on 4/21/09




Shawn:

We'll have to respectfully disagree and end this arguing. You have your beliefs and justifications and I see it totally differently. You are confusing things that I say and bringing up posts from other questions. It is redundant and out of context.

I will continue to keep you and all those who are lost in my constant prayer. Not in judgment mind you (because you do so hate that word), but rather in love.
---Debbie on 4/21/09


--Debbie: "You say the bow was out of respect.-- he didn't bow to other leaders.---Debbie on 4/21/09"

Debbie, The Truth is revealed by Faith not logic. So spiritually your LOGIC has nothing to do with nothing!!!!...and Oh Ya Did I 'Say' that or are you trying to justify the wrong-doings of your equivocations of President Obama?

You're Judgmental because you're harping on the Tares, which will always be there, instead of Praising God for the Wheat sown(Matt.13:24-30) and you're confusing this with being Spiritual Fruits(Gal.5:22-23), which President Obama spiritually always walks in.

This Presidency has revealed, to the world, who in this Country is Truly attending to things according to the Will of God's Word.
---Shawn_M.T. on 4/21/09


Shawn:

You can justify Obama all you want. Truth and facts are what my eyes see, not cover ups and justifications of wrong-doing.

Obama has many blinded and I expected you to defend his actions and lash out at those who see his fruits for what they are.

I will pray for you Shawn and while I respect your viewpoint, I still see you as completely and totally blinded to truth. May God touch your heart and open your eyes.

You say the bow was out of respect. Funny -- he didn't bow to other leaders.
---Debbie on 4/21/09


Trav, please try to avoid insulting women in your blogs. We are, after all, the other half. Thank you.
---Mary on 4/20/09


America....land of men who became like confused women.

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Psalm 119:103-105
Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
Psalm 139:20-22
Amen. obamanations are most disgusting in all the kosmos.
---Trav on 4/20/09


--Debbie:"What are Obama's fruits telling us? He denies our nation as being Christian. He supports abortion. He bows to Muslim leaders?---Debbie on 4/11/09 Obama Bows To Muslims"

Sounds like the instigating of "Murmuring" but we'll Pray for the Truth instead! Which is, the Nation isn't made up of just Christians. A bow means nothing to us who worship in Spirit & Truth.

To gain the Wisdom of why President Obama DOESN'T support abortion but isn't up rooting it either, Read Matt.13:24:30. The tares of abortion aren't to be planted in our personal Lives and President Obama doesn't in his own BUT we're also to realize the Wisdom that the evil tares that are already in the world, won't be root up until the Harvest.
---Shawn_M.T. on 4/20/09


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Debbie~ Yes, you're correct we do need to pray for Obama that God might open his eyes and show him the ways of truth and righteousness. Of course, we need to pray this for every single soul on this planet, and we need to pray that those who are saved will continue to walk faithfully with God in this dark time of history. But we know God has a perfect plan and His will is being done in a perfect way. God bless.
---Anne on 4/20/09


Shawn:

First off, your words seem a bit hypocritical in that you seem to be judging me. I hope I am reading that wrong, but always welcome the prayers of a believer, so thank you.

I brought up Obama because this question was sparked by a comment I made on another question about Obama and knowing him by his fruits. I'm sorry I wasn't clear about that, but as you know our responses are limited.

As for praying for Obama, you are also sorely incorrect about me. Do I pray that his agenda is successful? NO! I pray that the Lord touches his heart and shows him the way. Obama's fruits for now have been contrary to what scripture teaches, so I am in constant prayer for him.

I hope I have cleared up your misconception of me.
---Debbie on 4/20/09


John 12:24
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.


This is the ONLY Fruit God is looking for, and how we, His Body, KNOW one another in the Body....How, because we all got there the same way..

I am Crucified with Christ...no longer I but Christ in me....
---kathr4453 on 4/20/09


Great posts Sister Debbie and done with total love.

Kath, I enjoyed yours too.
i have never heard that expression of Fruit inspecters but that is a great way to put.
---miche3754 on 4/20/09


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***God didn't say we are to JUDGE them, but we are to KNOW them by their fruits.***

Debbie, this is so true.

Unfortuantely many do judge, and judge based upon their own doctrine. I would be judged a liar by a Mormon, RCC or any other.

To be judged fruitful because I am all peace, love, dove, can also be misleading too!

Those in the Emergent Church Movement, hate anyone who stands by the fundamental principles of Scripture calling THEM troublemakers.

I'm sure the reformers would not be judged by the RCC as fruitful...however God has!
---kathr4453 on 4/20/09


--Debbie:

This Blog has nothing to do with President Obama nor has any one previously even mentioned anything about the President. But 'OUT OF THE 'BLUE' you make the judgmental statement "What fruits has Obama produced?".

So Debbie, You can lie to yourself & those who are blind but never to the Lord's Spirit.

Anyone can clearly see, even before viewing your 'Blog Replies', that you carry more judgment, than prayers for President Obama!!

Praying instead of judging, has nothing to do with being 'Politically Correct' But everything to do with the Will of the Lord's Word.

You're instigating, and it's not for Prayer BUT I will Pray for you Sister :even without needing to know all your fruits!
---Shawn_M.T. on 4/20/09


Oh, absolutely. I would go even further. They would miss heaven.
---catherine on 4/20/09


Debbie~ Wow!! You are a lady with some excellent common sense. Keep sharing for you seem to be a person who teaches full truths and not just partial truth. God bless.
---Anne on 4/19/09


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Knowing them is not the same as judging them. I think that is what is so confusing to people. It's like society today wants to be sooooo politically correct, that we avoid scripture that makes us uncomfortable and make up our own set of rules. God gives us the guidance. In scripture, God didn't say we are to JUDGE them, but we are to KNOW them by their fruits. If scripture says this is so -- why do we turn it around on each other and call each other judgmental? Quit being so politically correct people!
---Debbie on 4/18/09


One more thing in follow up. As you see from my post of Matthew -- it doesn't say we are to JUDGE those who bear evil fruit -- but rather we would know them by this. See the difference? Those that are not producing good fruits (and sometimes that would mean ourselves!) are those that need the prayers the most (that is my humble opinion). Perhaps that is why we should know them.
---Debbie on 4/18/09


--Debbie:

It's ironic, the people who should be the most patient & nonjudgmental, are the very ones who are lacking the most in both qualities!

Read Mark Eaton's 4/16/09 post and Exercise the Patience needed to realize that No one sows a seed or even plants a tree and right away expect it to produce fruit without giving it its do seasons to grow the strong roots,trunk & branches needed to facilitate the Fruits of the Spirit.

Plus, The government isn't of the best fertile soil right now and your 'Doubtful Speculation' isn't the the way we're to tend to the soil. It's our Hopes & Prayers, the Lord shall hear to heal & raise up those in Office, so they may rapidly & abundantly produce the Lord's Will :James 5:15-16.
---Shawn_M.T. on 4/17/09


Matthew 7:

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

I trust this more than what man may opine on this thread.

What fruits has Obama produced?
---Debbie on 4/17/09


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I've heard it said that we're not judges but fruit inspectors. I am not sure we're worthy of either. If we recognize the fruit of the spirit it's because the love, joy, peace patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control are as easy for us to recognize as are apples, oranges, bananas, and grapes.

The fruit inspector is God.

He wants more than a great big leafy plant. He seeks the fruit of the Spirit that testifies a change life,bringing HIM Glory.

Each should be inspecting their own life, to see if they are in God's will.

The story of the man who owned a vineyard and a fig tree is not just a story of judgment, or fruit inspection, it's also a story of grace, AKA God's good gardening.
---kathr4453 on 4/17/09


I think "question" is the wrong word to use. Encourage is the right word. We should encourage one another when we do not see the right fruit.
We must be careful not to compare our walk with anyone else. Compare your walk to the one who set the pattern, Christ.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/16/09
That was why in my last post I "changed" that word.
See my post on 4/15/09.

I read it after posting and noticed it sounded condemning when that was not what I intended.
---miche3754 on 4/17/09


Self professed "Godly people" have developed a very "harsh" habit of DECIDING/judging other people's status based on "fruits".

Since they have taken it upon themselves to be the "great decider"/judge and stand in judgement against their fellow human being, God has decided to counter this ungodly attitude with the "strong delusion" and a lifetime of being PRIDEFUL so that they continuously pursue the spiritual fruits that belong to GOD'S spirit while neglecting to have any spiritual fruits of their own.

Romans 8:16
"it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with OUR SPIRIT that we are CHILDREN OF GOD".

Ephesians 5:8 "fruit of light".
---more_excellent_way on 4/17/09


Mark, AMEN! How very true and wise. BTW are you related to renee eaton?
---christina on 4/16/09


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There are many christians who bear bad fruit and are carnal-minded. They miss God's best blessings,enjoyment,peace and other victories that can be thiers now,her on earth. They are powerless,joyless,faithless and miserable in their walk with the Lord.
I would rather not question another's walk with God. We do not have a Heaven or Hell to put anyone in. Leave that up to the Lord. He can take care of that He does not need our help. We should pray for these shallow and carnal Christians.
---Robyn on 4/16/09


--Mark Eaton:

Amen~Mark~Amen, Ecclesiastes is an 'Excellent' book for healing the Brethren and encouraging them that they haven't become Lukewarm just because they themselves or others don't continuously see them producing the fruits of the Spirit!!

'Hindsight' is always 20/20 but we need to start joyously exercising & encouraging the 'Foresight' of our confidence which lies in our Hopes of Faith in God's Word to always keep us :FOR it's our confidence which has great recompense of reward, that enable us to endure until the end as we grow stronger to better serve the Lord.

Thanks, I enjoyed hearing your response!

Good Day Brother & God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 4/16/09


I think "question" is the wrong word to use. Encourage is the right word. We should encourage one another when we do not see the right fruit.

I have come to learn that there are "seasons" to our relationship with Christ. These seasons are much like a tree encounters. There are "winters" where it may look like we are not producing fruit. But during these times of distress, the "roots" are growing even stronger. There are "springs" where we leaf out and look stronger than ever but during these times we are still not bearing fruit because its all about ourselves.

We must be careful not to compare our walk with anyone else. Compare your walk to the one who set the pattern, Christ.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/16/09


**Very few churches are teaching that we MUST read our Bibles to discern if we truly truly are children of God. **

Where does the Bible say to read our Bibles?

Actually, Jesus told the Bible experts of the time of His earthly sojourn that devotion to the Bible can get in the way of seeing HIM. "You search the scriptures, for in them you THINK you have eternal life..."
---katavasia on 4/16/09


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TIMOTHY~ I enjoyed your honest post. Very few churches are teaching that we MUST read our Bibles to discern if we truly truly are children of God. Very few churches are pointing to scripture that helps us KNOW 100% if we're truly saved or not. To help someone understand and feel secure about their salvation is far more important than saving their physical life. Yet most churches don't like to confront people, and point to scriptures that might inspire a healthy fear of God, for they feel they are being 'judgmental'. I feel it is better to point a person to the truth of scripture than to see a soul headed on the wide road to eternal destruction.

Praise God your eyes opened to truth and that you got on the straight and narrow! God bless.
---Anne on 4/15/09


16 "Parents must not be put to death for the sins of their children, nor the children for the sins of their parents.
I read this in my Bible, in Dueteronomy (sorry for spelling), Would this verse mean that parents not be held repsonsible for their kids (fruit)? thank you.
---sue on 4/15/09


Shawn and Anne, I agree with both of your posts.
Like I stated before, I was walking contrary and (as Shawn put it) one of my Sister's in Christ came to me and told me in a loving way. Her prayers/direction helped for God to show me I was walking contrary to him (because at 1st I didn't see). I should have asked what would/should we do in cases where we see our brother/sister starting to fall and not producing the Fruits of the HS.
(that's what I meant by "question"). If it appears they are doing wrong things, I believe we should go to them with concern/love, find out whats going on. Offer prayer to help them out of what ever their situation is.
---miche3754 on 4/15/09


Miche~ Yes, Christians are to exhort other Christians as Paul told us. (Usually this is done in a very loving way, other times we have to be more firm.) We are all in a spiritual battle every day and need to be there to help each other through the guidance of the Holy Spirit to stay on the 'straight and narrow'.

People NEED to read Luke 12:35-48 because it earnestly and emphatically tells us to be ready,- ready - for the Lord's return and/or judgment. This passage places holy fear in my heart for some servants are faithful, while other servants of Jesus become unfaithful (return to sin) and go with UNbelievers! Jesus lovingly warns us, and we need to lovingly warn as well. (Plus Jesus taught those not producing fruit get cast out.)
---Anne on 4/15/09


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--Miche:

Miche, Consider 2Cor.10:7 the next time the question of someones Walk with God arises~

~ Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? if any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

...for we are Christ's by the substance of our Hopes & the evidence of the unseen(FAITH)!!

The prayer of Faith shall Save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up, and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. So don't question their 'Walk', Just confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that we, the Brethren may be healed. FOR The Effectual Fervent Prayer of a Righteous Man Availeth Much : James5:15-16
---Shawn_M.T. on 4/15/09


How can you tell if they're not producing GOOD fruit? The Fruit of the Spirit is love, peace, joy, kindness, patience, long-suffering, self-control...is that what you mean by fruit?---donna8365 on 4/14/09
yes, ma'am

I would question their walk with God by the following: Are they forgiving others? Turning the other cheek? Are they hungering and thirsting after righteousness? Are they showing people Mercy? Are they pure in heart? Are they filled with God's love? and showing others God's love? Are they patient with you? Are they kind to strangers?

No one knows the heart of man except God...how can you tell how close they are with God?
---donna8365 on 4/14/09

Amen
Professing Christ and the HS fruits.
---miche3754 on 4/14/09


If I didn't think you were producing good fruit, miche, could I question your walk with God?

Remember, you have to be willing to be judged by the same standard you judge others.
---katavasia on 4/14/09

I completely accept that. In fact, about 2 years ago, I was doing somethings contrary, and one of my sisters in Christ came to me humble meek, and low, and told me with God's word what I was doing. Now, I am not doing it any more.
---miche3754 on 4/14/09


I claimed to be a Christian for many years and truly thought that I was, nobody ever questioned my walk. I lived this way most of my life until I started to question myself because of my lack of fruit. I discovered that I only accepted the salvation of Christ and not the lifestyle. I was a fraud and truly didn't realize it because no one around me would confront me in Love. I have subsequently changed and have found the peace that I have been missing for so many years. Please continue to challenge an unchanged Christian life but do it in Love. That person might honestly not know that there is a better life for them.
---TIMOTHY on 4/14/09


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How can you tell if they're not producing GOOD fruit? The Fruit of the Spirit is love, peace, joy, kindness, patience, long-suffering, self-control...is that what you mean by fruit?

I would question their walk with God by the following: Are they forgiving others? Turning the other cheek? Are they hungering and thirsting after righteousness? Are they showing people Mercy? Are they pure in heart? Are they filled with God's love? and showing others God's love? Are they patient with you? Are they kind to strangers?

No one knows the heart of man except God...how can you tell how close they are with God?
---donna8365 on 4/14/09


I beleive that depends on their visions and calling.
---t on 4/14/09


Yes! But, if they were producing bad fruit, I'd question it even more.
---SusieB on 4/14/09


The Bible says that a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and a fountain cannot give good and bad water. So how can a Christian produce bad fruit?
---john on 4/14/09


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If I didn't think you were producing good fruit, miche, could I question your walk with God?

Remember, you have to be willing to be judged by the same standard you judge others.
---katavasia on 4/14/09


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