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Christ Is The Rock Not Peter

Is it true that the that the great Augustine, joined by Cyril, Hilary, Basil, Ambrose, Jerome, Chrysostom, Gregory of Nyssa, and delegates to the Council of Chalcedon, declared the rock upon which Christ would build His Church was Christ himself and not the Apostle Peter?

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1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
2 Samuel 22:2 And he said, The LORD [is] my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer,
Psalms 95:1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone],
1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
---MIchael on 6/5/09


If I were directing my comments to a specific person than I can understand that maybe they felt insulted. However, I was just stating my thoughts (as is everyone else on this blog) and you immediately began attacking me, calling me out by name. Now that's fine, and if you were insulted or upset my statements then I apologize b/c that certainly isn't my intention. And I don't want to "waste my time" b/c I'm not going to use God's Word as an object of hostility and unChristian-like behavior. I'd rather remove myself from the situation. Call it what you want, but I've presented what God's Word says about Christ being the head of the Church and not Peter, and that's all I can do. The rest is between you and God.
---ALICIA on 5/23/09


Does it really make any sense at all that Jesus would give up His life for us, sinners, just to build a church on Peter, a sinner? I mean seriously, that would completely void everything that Jesus came down here for. Like everybody else, Peter is nothing but dirt or bones or something in a grave somewhere. But we have a Savior who died and still lives! The church is the body of CHRIST, not the body of Peter.---ALICIA

Do you not think your comments were mean spirited and rude?

Why isn't Jesus' Words in Matthew 16:13-19 not enough for you?
You accuse me of making excuses.
I prove it was you making excuses not me.
Then you realize it is true, so end by saying it is waste of time.
Maybe, you can't accept being wrong?
---Valerie on 5/23/09


So the notion you have against Jesus deciding to put a sinner in charge of His Church is very strange to me.
*****

the "notion" is RCC has made a man HIGHER than Christ ...the "notion" is RCC has not one verse to support their man made pagan doctrine's FROM Gods Word ...the "notion" is RCC does not believe EVER WORD FROM GOD Luke 4:4

which is why their brand of christianity is FALSE and they assign whatever they choose to make up from Gods Word

Christ is THE HIGH PRIEST not Peter ...very simple and VERY BASIC scripture is overlooked to support RCC's fable
---Rhonda on 5/22/09


Okay, as far as the "dirt" thing, you completely took that and ran with it. And I know what Scripture we are using. My reason for asking you to provide more Scriptures is because I have supported my claim with additional Scriptures and not just one. I have not received the same from you, and that's ok. If you can't provide any more Scriptures other than Matt 16:18, I completely get it. That's all I was asking for. But as much as you would probably like for me to be just as rude to you as you have been to me, I would much rather not waste my time.
---ALICIA on 5/22/09




Alicia, you seems to be putting down mankind in your comments in your efforts to try to drive a point to us.

I am only trying to show you that even Jesus doesn't think we are as bad as you seems to describe us.

God made us from dirt in their Image.
Remember, Jesus is keeping our DIRT FLESH forever. He doesn't agree with you.
He died for us when we were SINNERS.
So the notion you have against Jesus deciding to put a sinner in charge of His Church is very strange to me.

If He is willing to shed His Blood to the point of death for us, why not trust us with His Body the Church?
He is still God and in Charge!

Be still know He is God.
SUPREME over the nations,
SUPREME over the earth.
---Valerie on 5/22/09


Ruben I do not see how John 21:15-17 indicates Petros is petra-foundation rock- at all-the opposite. The Greek exposes extra meaning.

Twice Jesus asks Peter if he loves (agape-unconditional love) Him. Peter replies I love (phileo-tender affection) you.

---Warwick on 5/21/09


Warwick, now you are just trying so hard to find anything to discredit Jesus calling Peter Rock. In Jhn 21:16, speaking of Greek Jesus use the word "poimaine" which means to rule, the same word is use in Rev 2:27, in order to rule you would have to be a Solid Rock!
---Ruben on 5/22/09


The New Testament calls JESUS the Stone and foundation of the church Ephesians

But the Old Testament reminds us GOD is the rock also.

Deu 32:4 [He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he.

2Sa 22:32 For who [is] God, save the LORD? and who [is] a rock, save our God?
2Sa 22:47 The LORD liveth, and blessed [be] my rock, and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.

The question is answered only the LORD is our rock.
---Samuel on 5/22/09


ALICIA, are you joking?
Which Scripture is everyone fussing about?
The Famous one you wish wasn't in the Bible. MATTHEW 16:13-19

You are the one giving out opinions not me.
I gave you that Scripture twice.
Then you claim I didn't?
Do you think others will believe you because you think you are good with words?
Read my posts. I not only gave you Scripture, I told you to read it again.

Which Scriptures do you think Ruben, Warwick,and everyone else is talking about? John 3:16?
No, Matthew 16:13-19.

You and others are trying to make excuses and opinions of Jesus' Word of Rock. Calling it stone or pebble. Using Greek. ALL EXCUSES.

FACT: Jesus spoke Aramaic and said Cephas. Rock.
Use your own advice.
---Valerie on 5/22/09


Valerie, you use my comments and scriptures in reverse to support your argument. But I have yet to see any solid scriptures supporting your argument that Jesus built the church on Peter. If you can't support what you are saying with scripture, then to me its just opinion. So, if you don't mind, please provide some scriptures that help support your claim. Thanks!
---ALICIA on 5/22/09




Ruben I do not see how John 21:15-17 indicates Petros is petra-foundation rock- at all-the opposite. The Greek exposes extra meaning.

Twice Jesus asks Peter if he loves (agape-unconditional love) Him. Peter replies I love (phileo-tender affection) you.

The third time Jesus asks do you love (phileo) me? Peter replies -you know everything and you know I love (phileo) you.

Why does Jesus lower agape to phileo? He was teaching Peter (who recently denied Him) a powerful lesson, showing Peter he is but a falible, sinful man unable to even defend Jesus against man, let alone love Him as Jesus loves Peter.

I am sure Peter never forgat that blunt, but loving lesson.

This man is no foundation for God's Church!
---Warwick on 5/21/09


Jesus said he would destroy the temple and raise it in three days (His body). Don't think Peter can do that!---ALICIA

No, but the Dirt did raise a girl from death in Jesus' Name. And his shadow even healed people. Now that's some awesome Dirt's shadow! Acts 5:15 and 9:36-41

The church is the body of CHRIST, not the body of Peter.---ALICIA

The facts still remains the same. Jesus took dirt as His body. Thus making the dirt HOLY!
Jesus died for the us dirt!

Jesus said He is the Head of the Church and the Church is His Body.

Slow down and read Matthew 16:13-19 again.

Jesus calls Peter "Rock." He states He is building His Body (Church) on the Rock.

Stop spinning Scripture. Just read it.
---Valerie on 5/21/09


Peter means rock but not, geologically speaking, foundation rock, which is petra. Rocks can be unstable as any mountain walker knows. However foundation rock 'petra' is like Christ-ultimate stability upon which we can stand, walk, or build confidently.

---Warwick on 5/20/09

What kind of Rock is Cephas? John 21:15-17 - Jesus charges Cephas to "feed my lambs," "tend my sheep," "feed my sheep."

Sounds like a foundation Rock! Sheep means all people including the apostles....
---Ruben on 5/21/09


I can understand why some may be misunderstand in thinking Jesus built the church on Peter. Many "churches" today are founded upon another man's ideas or "revelations." That's why there are so many different "churches" today. No one wants to accept the fact that Jesus built a church in the first century through the apostles. They were commissioned to spread the good news and they established churches but the church wasn't built on them, but Jesus only. If that were the case, there should be a church of Peter, a church of John, a church of James, etc. But there aren't. There is only a church of Christ.
---ALICIA on 5/21/09


Warwick *Check a concordance and see rock is only applied to God or Jesus, God the son, never to man.

2786. Kephas kay-fas' of Chaldee origin (compare 3710), the Rock, Cephas (i.e. Kepha), a surname of PETER :--Cephas.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4074. Petros pet'-ros apparently a primary word, a (piece of) rock (larger than 3037), as a name, Petrus, an apostle:-- PETER , rock. Compare 2786.

If Jesus meant Peter was the rock He would have said something like-And I tell you that you are Peter and upon you I will bulld my church.

And if Jesus was talking about himself he would had said and upon me I will build my Church"
---Ruben on 5/21/09


Scripture calls no man such a foundation rock.
---Warwick on 5/20/09

" You are Kephas and upon this kephas I will build my Church.and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Sounds like a foundation Rock to me!
---Ruben on 5/21/09


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Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Deuteronomy 32:3-4 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
---Exzucuh on 5/21/09


What we must keep in mind, is context. We can be lead astray by focussing on the small picture. By moving back we get overview. In Scripture's flow, in 'context', we see God alone is the rock. Check a concordance and see rock is only applied to God or Jesus, God the son, never to man.

If Jesus meant Peter was the rock He would have said something like-And I tell you that you are Peter and upon you I will bulld my church.

Peter means rock but not, geologically speaking, foundation rock, which is petra. Rocks can be unstable as any mountain walker knows. However foundation rock 'petra' is like Christ-ultimate stability upon which we can stand, walk, or build confidently.

Scripture calls no man such a foundation rock.
---Warwick on 5/20/09


Valerie, yes Jesus died for sinners and no He can't nor did He build His church on a sinner. "And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved" (Acts 2:47). "And hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church" (Eph. 1:22) "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence" (Col 1:18). I don't see Peter's name anywhere associating him with the church. Jesus said he would destroy the temple and raise it in three days (His body). Don't think Peter can do that!
---ALICIA on 5/20/09


The Greek uses two different words. To show not the same.

The apostles stated the stone on which the church is built is JESUS.

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone],

Peter is one of the apostles. Which men exalt above the words of scripture.

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, [as unto] a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, [and] precious,


1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
---Samuel on 5/20/09


Samuel, Jesus also was call a Rock 1 cor 10:4, as was Peter Jhn 1:42..
---Ruben on 5/20/09


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The Greek uses two different words. To show not the same.

The apostles stated the stone on which the church is built is JESUS.

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone],

Peter is one of the apostles. Which men exalt above the words of scripture.

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, [as unto] a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, [and] precious,


1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
---Samuel on 5/20/09


Ruben I agree with StrongAxe and Alicia.

The NT was written in Greek, the common wide-spread language, not Aramaic.

Petros is a personal name with a meaning,
---Warwick on 5/19/09

Strong Greek lexicon, most Protestant scholar and the Early Church Father do not agree with you!

4073. petra pet'-ra feminine of the same as 4074, a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):--rock.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4074. Petros pet'-ros apparently a primary word, a (piece of) rock (larger than 3037), as a name, Petrus, an apostle:--Peter, rock. Compare 2786.
---Ruben on 5/20/09


Ruben:

Yes, Jesus spoke Aramaic, but the gospels are written in Greek - so we can only retroactively deduce the exact words that he used. Why would the gospel writer specifically use two different Greek words to translate the same Aramaic word?
---StrongAxe on 5/19/09

In the Greek language it cannot use the same word in a sentence. Besides petra and petros has the same meaning:

4073. petra pet'-ra feminine of the same as 4074, a (mass of) Rock (literally or figuratively):--rock.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4074. Petros pet'-ros apparently a primary word, a (piece of) Rock (larger than 3037),
---Ruben on 5/20/09


Ruben:

Yes, Jesus spoke Aramaic, but the gospels are written in Greek -
---StrongAxe on 5/19/09

Strongaxe, yes Jesus spoke Aramic and he said "You are Kephas(Rock) and upon this kephas(Rock) I will build my church" and now you want me to ignore his words. In John 1:42 "Jesus looked at him and said, "You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas" (which, when translated, is Peter]).

John 1:42 Both Cephas (Aramaic) and Peter (Greek) mean rock.
---Ruben on 5/20/09


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Does it really make any sense at all that Jesus would give up His life for us, sinners, just to build a church on Peter, a sinner? I mean seriously, that would completely void everything that Jesus came down here for. Like everybody else, Peter is nothing but dirt or bones or something in a grave somewhere.--ALICIA on 5/19/09

Let me understand your logic.

Jesus can die for sinners, but not build a church on a sinner?

Die for dirt, but not build on dirt?

Mad because you are not Peter?
---Valerie on 5/20/09


Even if Peter was the rock Jesus is still the chief cornerstone. We need not give any glory to Peter because there is a greater glory. Jesus Christ himself.
---john on 5/20/09


Ruben I agree with StrongAxe and Alicia.

The NT was written in Greek, the common wide-spread language, not Aramaic.

Petros is a personal name with a meaning, but it does not mean the same as petra which is used to describe the foundation rock upon which the house was built-Matt. 7:24. No man is the foundation.

Bullinger's Critical Lexicon defines Petros-(Page 650): 'Peter, who was so called, not because of firmness of character, but for the very opposite reason. Peter was like a Petros, a rolling stone-in one place today and in another tomorrow,... No one of the 12 was so vacillation or so failing (except Judas.) Christ is 'that rock' Matt.16:18, 1 Co. 10:4 and "other foundation no man can lay" ..'
---Warwick on 5/19/09


Ruben:

Yes, Jesus spoke Aramaic, but the gospels are written in Greek - so we can only retroactively deduce the exact words that he used. Why would the gospel writer specifically use two different Greek words to translate the same Aramaic word? This would make no sense, unless there was something else going on (for example, the distinction in "you are the pebble - and on this boulder I will build my church"?)
---StrongAxe on 5/19/09


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Does it really make any sense at all that Jesus would give up His life for us, sinners, just to build a church on Peter, a sinner? I mean seriously, that would completely void everything that Jesus came down here for. Like everybody else, Peter is nothing but dirt or bones or something in a grave somewhere. But we have a Savior who died and still lives! The church is the body of CHRIST, not the body of Peter.
---ALICIA on 5/19/09


? Surely if they meant the same thing Jesus would have said you are Petros and upon this Petros, or upon you, I will build my church?

---Warwick on 5/19/09

Warwick, Jesus spoke in Aramaic! please read Jhn 1:42, who Jesus change Simon to Peter (Kephas)(Rock). " You are Kephas and upon this Kephas I will be my Church"
---Ruben on 5/19/09


Ruben Jesus said to Peter, you are 'Petros' (Peter in Greek-a name) and then said upon this 'petra' I will build my church. Why,if the two words are the same, does the text use two different words?
---Warwick on 5/19/09


Protestant Greek scholars like D.A. Carson and Joseph Thayer Both admit there is no difference in it's meaning between petros and petra in the Koine Greek of the New Testament. [Joseph H. Thayer, Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Peabody: Hendrickson, 1996), 507, D.A. Carson, "Matthew," in Frank E. Gaebelein, ed., The Expositor's Bible Commentary (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1984), vol. 8, 368.] And like I have said, Petra does mean Rock and that is exactly what petros means.
---Ruben on 5/19/09


Ruben Jesus said to Peter, you are 'Petros' (Peter in Greek-a name) and then said upon this 'petra' I will build my church. Why,if the two words are the same, does the text use two different words? Surely if they meant the same thing Jesus would have said you are Petros and upon this Petros, or upon you, I will build my church?

The answer must be that these two words do not have the same meaning. My dictionary says Petros is a name meaning rock, a moveable rock, while petra carries the meaning of foundation rock, a strata of rock, immoveable, upon which we would build a structure. See Matt. 7:24 regarding the man who built his house upon 'Petra.'

No man is 'petra' an immovable strata of solid rock!
---Warwick on 5/19/09


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Jesus called cephais a (piece of) rock pet'-ros He refered to himself as a (mass of) rock pet'-ra

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art A (piece of the rock), and upon A (mass of the rock) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

---Exzucuh on 5/18/09


Exzucuh it does not say Thou art A nor upon A! Besides Rock is a Rock it should not matter the size, strong greek lecion says 4073. petra pet'-ra feminine of the same as 4074, a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):--rock. So both Petros and Petra are the same ROCK.....Mass and or a Piece of Rock!
---Ruben on 5/18/09


Jesus called cephais a (piece of) rock pet'-ros He refered to himself as a (mass of) rock pet'-ra

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art A (piece of the rock), and upon A (mass of the rock) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1 Peter 2:5 You also, as living stones, are built up into a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Peter knew what Jesus meant and said this to us, that we are synonymous with Jesus as stumbling Stones to build his body the church
and do the work of Christ.
---Exzucuh on 5/18/09


Search the scriptures!
It's the REVELATION of the Holy Spirit that accurately gave Peter information of Jesus' IDENTITY that was THE ROCK. Today, THE ROCK of the church is still ACCURATELY REVEALED KNOWLEDGE of our identity in Christ Jesus.
The sinking sand is INACCURATE RELIGIOUS KNOWLEDGE of our Identity in Christ Jesus.
The church is built on the "foundation" of the prophets and the apostles, Jesus Himself being the chief cornerstone.
Peter would have never been "PART" of the foundation had it not been for the "ACCURATE REVEALED KNOWLEDGE" that made him "THE ROCK" as well as "THE OTHER" APOSTLES.
Sandy Patti sings about this in "Upon This Rock". Google it.
---Legends on 5/15/09


Eloy:

In Matthew 7:21, Jesus was speaking about himself. By speaking those same exact words yourself, it sounds like you are saying that you and Jesus are one and the same - that anything you say must be taken as the Word of God, and that anyone who disagrees with you is disagreeing with God himself.

This is a very dangerous position. No Christian is elevated to that position. This is exactly the same kind of thing that the Pharisees condemned Jesus for - anyone claiming to be God must either be severely deluded, or a dangerous heretic - unless he actually IS God. And I am pretty sure that you are not God.
---StrongAxe on 5/13/09


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concur Eloy... Amen Alicia.. God Bless all
---Michael on 5/13/09


A-men Alicia.
---Eloy on 5/12/09


Matt 16:16,18 says "and Simon Peter answered and said "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Then "And I say also unto thee, that thou are Peter, and upon this rock I will build MY church" Jesus immediately claims ownership to his church. The rock is Peter's answer: thou art the Christ...this is what the church is built on. (John 14:6)
---Alicia on 5/12/09


.katavasia, You are truly mistaken, for I have not blessed you at all because my blessings I only give to whomsoever I choose to give them to, but I have only told you the truth. Not all that say to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of heaven: rather the one that does the commands of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, in your name have we not done many wonderful things for you? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you all that work sinousness. katavasia, after you repent then you'll get saved, and not beforehand, but as long as you remain in your sin you will not obtain blessing nor be saved.
---Eloy on 5/12/09


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**.katavasia, by me becoming born-again, and genuinely manifesting Christ's life which proves my salvation to the lost such as you.
---Eloy on 5/9/09**

The very fact that you think I'm not saved means I'm in pretty good spiritual shape.

Keep on blessing me. All you do is increase my heavenly treasure.
---katavasia on 5/9/09


.katavasia, by me becoming born-again, and genuinely manifesting Christ's life which proves my salvation to the lost such as you.
---Eloy on 5/9/09


** .mic, until you get saved you will remain lost in darkness and continue to blasph**

Where did you get the idea that YOU were saved, eloy?
---katavasia on 5/8/09


.mic, my God the Creator of all, also washed the dirty feet of his apostles, for if the Almighty Lord and Sovereign Master of all has humbled himself and become a lowly servant, how much more should they of his household likewise serve? For though some service is indeed below us the children of the King, yet for his purpose and pleasure we do such services. And how blessed are the feet of him whom carries the gospel of peace.
---Eloy on 5/9/09


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.mic, until you get saved you will remain lost in darkness and continue to blaspheme.
---Eloy on 5/8/09


Eloy:-I see you done it again.You usurp God when you write in the First person YOU are NOT the first Person you are Eloy the servant,who cleaned toilets.I say this not to humilate you, but to bring you awareness. Tell me what is The Holy spirit of Truth?The Holy Spirit is GOD and TRUTH ONLY.It is the unholy spirit who portrays falseness as truth and this is what he is doing to you.Making you believe you are Almighty.Covering up his tracks by using words of what you write about Egypt bondage quoting a lot of gibberish not pertaining to the subject and giving you a sense of stuffed up Pride.Dont Kid yourself Eloy .You are a good man but being led astray.
---MIC on 5/7/09


.mic, But you have not received the Holy Spirit of Truth. After you receive the Spirit of Christ your flesh will no longer dis my words, for my words are from the Lord and you will embrace them. I know who is of my body and whom is not, and I know those who as a wave of the ocean, sway back-and-forth between Christ and the world, never committing til death to choose to be his always and at all times: Desiring the sins of Egypt they choose to go back down into their bondage, and the last state of them becomes seven times worse then right before they got saved. You cannot have Christ and the way of righteousness and truth, and also entertain sin and the false ways of the whole world, you either wholly born-again or else lost in condemnation.
---Eloy on 5/7/09


ELOY:-Correct and that is what Many others and I have been trying to tell you all along.But I did receive The Holy Ghost at my Confirmation, Many moons ago.But that is an RC thing you would not understand.I know one must be in the grace of God to receive HIM the H/S
---MIC on 5/6/09


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mic, you do not have the Holy Ghost, for no one whom speaks falsehood has the Holy Ghost.
---Eloy on 5/6/09


**No I wasn't "historically there"

Historically it is accounted for in ANY History class ...but then again RCC believes history is a LIE unless it is history of their religious system

Did you attend History classes in high school or college?

it isn't hiding in some obscure text book ...the accounts are WELL documented over several sources ...just do your homework**

In other words, you can't substantiate your claim.

No chance that what YOU believe in this matter is a lie, is it?
---katavasia on 5/6/09


Eloy, you have a great way of noticing details in the Bible that I overlooked. Thanks. EG Jesus was not talking about Who is Peter, but Who is Jesus.
---frances008 on 5/5/09


A priest went to tell the Pope that he was late for his weekly address, and found him sitting sadly in a chair. The Pope says that he can't go as he just received a call from the Bishop in the seat of Paul. The Bishop had told the Pope that he was a heretic, and needed to repent, Galatians 2:11, 14.
Romans 16:17-18, Philippians 3:17-19, Titus 3:10-11.
Matthew 7:1-5 / Luke 6:41-42 deal with hypocrisy, and unjust judgment. 1Corinthians 2:15, 5:3, 11-13, 6:4, 11:31 instruct us to judge. In 1Chronicles 16:22 & Psalms 105:15, touch means to strike, or kill.
---Glenn on 5/5/09


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ELoy :-By your reply I conclude that you are the only one filled With The H/S.No so! so am I!! and that is why I contest what you say You cite Pentecost.WERE YOU THERE? NO but I was confirmed and filled with the H/S.I have that new heart .FYI JESUS IS GOD not a rock but Jesus gave Peter ROCK like qualities to defend HIS DOCTRINE which is in actuality THE ROCK which Peter and HiS Disciples defend along with His successors to this day.That is why Matt16 :13-19 is unshakeable unbreakable even the gates of Hell cannot prevail against it"Denigrate as much as you desire but it is to your own condemnation b/c It is "MY Church"JC
---MIC on 5/5/09


Can you back it up historically, or are you just saying what "everybody knows"?
******

No I wasn't "historically there"

Historically it is accounted for in ANY History class ...but then again RCC believes history is a LIE unless it is history of their religious system

Did you attend History classes in high school or college?

it isn't hiding in some obscure text book ...the accounts are WELL documented over several sources ...just do your homework
---Rhonda on 5/5/09


ruben, Jesus' great commission is not only for the 12 apostles, but is commanded for every single Christian to go into all the world and share his gospel, otherwise, the Christian would not be Christian but a disobeyer of God's Commandment and will be gathered as a barren and cursed tree and thrown into the fire, and the guilty blood of the lost will be upon the silent disobedient ones hands.
---Eloy on 5/4/09

That's what started the problem, every single christian went out and taught their own interpretation of scripture including you!
---Ruben on 5/5/09


.mic, Don't you know Pentecost? you need to get saved, for Christ's Holy Spirit is poured out upon all flesh who will receive him. And his Almighty Spirit is given to us in order to do his will. "A new heart also will I give you, and a new Spirit will I put within you: and will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and will give you an heart of flesh. For the promise is onto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord God will call." Ezekiel 36:26+ Acts 2:39
---Eloy on 5/4/09


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**
yes protestants killed retaliation for genocide by RCC ...small numbers to millions RCC killed**

Now, what is your source for saying the Roman Catholic Church killed millions of people.

Can you back it up historically, or are you just saying what "everybody knows"?

**True Christians are not "orthodox" they are a LITTLE flock **

Yes they are Orthodox. It's the original Church Christ founded.
---katavasia on 5/5/09


JESUS IS THE ROCK, NOT PETER: the Rock is Christ. Jesus asked who am I? and not who are you, peter? Jesus asked his disciples what His identity is. "Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of God live. And I thereupon to you say, being you Peter, that yet on this Rock I will build me the assembly, and gates of hell will not have prevailing power against this." Notice he said, against THIS Rock. The Rock was Jesus' identity, that Rock of truth of whom Jesus is, which Peter said correctly. Mt.16:16,18. False religions continually try in vain to replace Jesus Christ with their own horrible idols. Jesus is the Rock and Chief Cornerstone, and Peter was sinking sand which the Rock had to Save.
---Eloy on 5/4/09


.ruben, Jesus' great commission is not only for the 12 apostles, but is commanded for every single Christian to go into all the world and share his gospel, otherwise, the Christian would not be Christian but a disobeyer of God's Commandment and will be gathered as a barren and cursed tree and thrown into the fire, and the guilty blood of the lost will be upon the silent disobedient ones hands.
---Eloy on 5/4/09


.ruben, Jesus' great commission is not only for the 12 apostles, but is commanded for every single Christian to go into all the world and share his gospel, otherwise, the Christian would not be Christian but a disobeyer of God's Commandment and will be gathered as a barren and cursed tree and thrown into the fire, and the guilty blood of the lost will be upon the silent disobedient ones hands.
---Eloy on 5/4/09


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Christ did not give the keys of the Kingdom to peter, There is only One foundation of Christ's Church, namely, Jesus Christ himself, the one proven sinless and worthy of all worship and acceptation. but peter denied Christ 3 times, and he sank for his lack of faith. And after Jesus commissioned his disciples,
---Eloy on 5/3/09


In both instances he was talking only to the Apostles."And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter....And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

"And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them,....Whose soever sins ye remit,"
---Ruben on 5/4/09


Eloy:-I know you mean well but you cannot force fit Yourself into a scenario which does not pertain to You.JN20:19-23.The words and situation are clear He is speaking to the delagation of HIS CHOSEN "He breathes on them" with his departing instructions. Your insistence, I am sorry to say does not give you ar me that authority.If you want this authority the only recourse is to become a Priest UNDER PETER.HE HAS THOSE keys of authority.inspite of what you and the rest of Christendom says."Feed My lambs ,Feed my sheep" your intent is to slaughter them calling them idolators therefore "He who is not with me is against me" JC.
---MIC on 5/4/09


Christ did not give the keys of the Kingdom to peter, but instead Christ shares the keys of his Kingdom with every disciple of his in order to go out into the highways and biways to welcome the souls of all nations into the marriage supper of the Lamb. There is only One foundation of Christ's Church, namely, Jesus Christ himself, the one proven sinless and worthy of all worship and acceptation. but peter denied Christ 3 times, and he sank for his lack of faith. And after Jesus commissioned his disciples, he said, "And when he had said this, he breathed upon, and says to THEM, Receive YOU ALL the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins YOU ALL disregard, they are disregarded onto them: whose soever YOU ALL regard, they are bound." John 20:22,23.
---Eloy on 5/3/09


christ have peter the keys to the kingdom. After his death I guess someone had to be the leader,and it just developed into the palpacy.Now NO MAN can be the rock of the church accept JESUS.As mentioned the rock in jesus comments is the knowledge of him,aka BEING SAVED OR BORN AGAIN.This is the rock.
---tom2 on 5/3/09


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Protestants did the same thing to Roman Catholics when they got the chance

*****

yes protestants killed retaliation for genocide by RCC ...small numbers to millions RCC killed

True Christians are not "orthodox" they are a LITTLE flock

Holy Inquisition for 5 centuries AKA Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith ...current pope once head of this "office" a catholic court system forgotten by many since it stopped using its force in 1600's

office is still active laws still valid permitting RCC to resume FORCE again in future ...easy to determine who FALSE church is by its HATE and condemnation of all and thirst for blood ...antichrist to all Christ stood for NEVER Forcing anyone to follow him
---Rhonda on 5/2/09


What are your source texts as it would be tedious to look for this information. In all probability, there are spurious writings attributed to some of them. Peter, and we are G3037 leethos - small stones in 1Peter 2:5, and Jesus is the chief corner leethos in verse 6. However, in Matthew 16:18, Peter is G4074 petros - rock, G2786 Kafas - rock, H3710 Kafe - hollow rock. The rock is Jesus, G4073
petra - a massive rock. See the comparison (Jesus) in Romans 9:33, a stumbling leethos and a petra of offense.
Deuteronomy 32:15, 18, Psalm 18:2, 31:2-3, 89:26, 94:22, 95:1, Isaiah 8:14, 17:10, Matthew 16:18, Romans 9:33, 1Corinthians 10:4, 1Peter 2:4-8.
---Glenn on 5/2/09


Yes, "Therefore thus says the Lord YHWH, Note, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner, a sure foundation: he that believes will not make haste. The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner. Indeed of whom falls on this stone will be broken, and on whomever it fall it will expire him. I am The Resurrection, and The Life: the believing in me, even if die, will live. And coming up, Jesus he spoke to them saying, Me have all power in heaven and on earth. I am the Alpha and the Omega, Beginning and Ultimate, says the Lord, which from being, and which to being, and which coming, The Almighty." Isaiah 28:16+ Matthew 21:42,44+ John 11:25+ Matthew 28:18+ Revelation 1:8.
---Eloy on 5/2/09


1Ti 3:1 This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.


1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach,


1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre, but patient, not a brawler, not covetous,


1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity,

Since many of the Bishops and Popes of Rome were sleeping with many women while unmarried and murdered those who opposed them. They do not qualify as true Bishops which makes them false leaders.
---Samuel on 5/1/09


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I will confess right now, I do not know much about the RCC or the Council of Chalcedon, but I do know this, The "Rock" that Jesus was speaking of was Peter's confession"thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus Christ was, is and always will be THE Head of the church, not any man pope or otherwise.
---tommy3007 on 4/30/09


**remember RCC killing machine used fear to exterminate those who did not follow her during the genocide years of true Christians**

Protestants did the same thing to Roman Catholics when they got the chance.

And true Christians--the Orthodox--got grief from both.
---katavasia on 4/30/09


Correct not all served RCC in fear ...remember RCC killing machine used fear to exterminate those who did not follow her during the genocide years of true Christians

Christ did not KILL anyone or FORCE anyone to follow him ...his faithful servants do not either

one either follows men and their religious systems ...or they follow and obey Christ the ROCK ...cannot serve both

120 were left at Pentecost ...Christ preached to MANY thousands ...Christ flock is present today ...a LITTLE flock obeying Christ in the Word ...waiting until his return resurrection of Saints to be Kings and Priests in Gods Kingdom on Earth in the 1000 millennium

many do not comprehend 2Corin 4:4 ...unaware they serve another Jesus 2Corin 11:4
---Rhonda on 4/29/09


Mima,

BASIL THE GREAT

"One of these mountains was Peter, upon which rock the Lord promised to build His Church (Comm. in Esai 2,66)

AUGUSTINE

"[In] the Catholic Church, there are many other things which most justly keep me in her bosom. The consent of peoples and nations keeps me in the Church, so does her authority, enlarged by love, established by age. The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the Apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after His resurrection, gave it in charge.... For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church." (Against the Epistle of Manichaeus [Contra Epistolam Manichaei Quam Vacant Fundamenti.)
---Ruben on 4/29/09


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And once more mima tries to stir up strife.

The Council of Chalcedon delt with the issue of the relationship between the divine and human natures in the one Person of our Lord Jesus Christ.

At this council, a letter from Pope Leo was read, which the delegates to the council (for the most part) recognized as being an accurate statement and cried out, "This is the faith of the apostles. Peter has spoken through Leo."
---katavasia on 4/29/09


that is what the catholic used to start the lineage of the pope
---mike on 4/29/09


It appears unlikely, since Augustine died some 20 years before that Council.

And the topic of that Council seems to have been an entirely different one
---alan8566_of_UK on 4/29/09


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