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Is Miss California Sinning

Should Christians promote sin and be placed in leadership positions to further promote the sin? Should Christians have grace on this person and let them continue in their sin or should Christians counsel them and have the person step down from the leadership position? IE Miss California.

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I didn't know that bit of news Barbara. I agree that is strange.
---Moderator on 5/22/09


Prejean quote:

"What that website has failed to state is that those photos were for a special charity calendar. It was to be called, Gods Children, and was to feature Christians of all different colors, shapes and sizes. There were fat people, deformed people, old people and me. We were celebrating the diversity of Gods creation, so it was important to show us in the nude, imperfections and all".

She may be a Christian, but she has an odd way of showing it. (no pun intended!)
---NV_Barbara on 5/22/09


Moderator thats a big AMEN.
---Darlene_1 on 5/21/09


Yes, not only do we need to pray for Miss California, but for all Christian leaders as Satan and his demons works overtime to bring them down.
---Moderator on 5/21/09


Obewan it looks like you have the same information I have seen. Would you agree from the articles that she sees nothing wrong with her semi-nude photos?
---Tom on 5/21/09
Yes I would agree. And like many other "famous" Christians who are caught up in "scandal", she will probably use the publicity "good" or "bad" to advance her own interests and selfish agenda. Did Jim Bakker suffer as a result of his "downfall"? I say he made millions off the book sales after the fact. I for one am getting tired of all the "tabloid Christians".
---obewan on 5/21/09




Moderator,I'm not meaning to argue with you,hope it doesn't seem that way,you stated your info and I am only stating mine. I'm sure you have something you base that on but I went on all the major news networks and they all said the seminude photos were taken at 17 years old. I am big into research and I always only believe what I see for myself. No offence meant. It really doesn't matter. I'm done and will do what I said we should pray for her. Thank You,for printing my last entry. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/21/09


Darlene, the semi-nude photos at 20 are a fact and are not denied. It's the full nude photos that are denied.
---Moderator on 5/21/09


As much as I hated to I bit the bullet and looked at Prejeans photos. There were no full nude photos in them and no completely topless. It is very easy to compare her recent mature photo and those taken then and see her young face shows she is indeed a teenage girl. I think the all nude and 20 year old stories are just that stories or worse,gossip. It isn't unusual for news to pick up on gossip and report it when it is more sensational. I think thats exactly what happened. I still stand by what I said,it's not our place to crucify her but as Christians we should pray for her to find the guidence from mature Christians where she will understand model or no model a Christian sets good examples in all areas of life..
---Darlene_1 on 5/21/09


Obewan it looks like you have the same information I have seen. Would you agree from the articles that she sees nothing wrong with her semi-nude photos?
---Tom on 5/21/09


Then a few days later full nude photos came out (sounded like rumor) since there were no additional articles on that topic. (Mod)
------------------------------
If you Google her name, and look at the first few hits you will find the article. I can not post it here since web links are not allowed. ALLEGEDLY, she sent a full topless nude to one of the key pagent sponsors along with a lewd comment prior to the pagent. The pagent sponsor sent it to the magazine which claimed to have it in their possession. However, they said they could not publish it since her age at the time was uncertain. She denies it, but the magazine won't back down.
---obewan on 5/21/09




Mod: Thanks...I did not see/hear about the post-Trump interview pictures.

I think at this point, debating the pros and cons of her photo shoots seems futile, as her need for prayer and spiritual growth is much more urgent than someone winning an argument here. It is definitely sad that her lack of modesty is so public and such a distraction. I pray she has a mature Christian woman in her life to guide her.

I thank God my daughter had such women in her life when she was at college. I praise the Lord for college campus ministries. Now, at age 30, my daughter is a leader in her church, and a Godly mother for my grandchildren.
---Trish9863 on 5/20/09


Trish, the articles I read on CNN last week stated that after her Mr. Trump conference the semi-nude photos came out taken when Miss California was 20. Then a few days later full nude photos came out (sounded like rumor) since there were no additional articles on that topic. Miss California stated that there was nothing wrong with her doing the semi-nude photos because she was submitting them to Victoria Secrets so she could become one of their models.
---Moderator on 5/20/09


Question!!! Is wearing a skimpy bathing suit considered posing "semi-nude" to any of you?????
---SusieB on 5/20/09


Mod: Thanks...I guess I am confused about what information is missing in the discussions here. Basically, there seems to be controversy over whether she has posed since she was 17. I have been unsuccessful in finding any articles that support that premise. If they are out there, I can't find them.
---Trish9863 on 5/20/09


Trish, she isn't in the main news this week. You can Google "Miss California pictures", which would lead to the old news stories. I have no idea however which sites are tame enough to click on.
---Moderator on 5/20/09


Moderator, I have tried to examine CNN and MSNBC's websites for updated information regarding Ms. Prejean's photos that were supposedly taken since she was an adult, I am at a loss. I also Googled to try to find something from this week, and was unsuccessful as well. What sources are available with current information that says she has posed in recent years? I would appreciate knowing.
---Trish9863 on 5/20/09


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Several bloggers have outdated information on this topic and therefore are giving unbiblical advice to other Christians. Thousands of Christians read these blogs each month for advice, but never comment. If the advice you are giving is unbiblical based upon outdated info, the post will be rejected for the sake of other Brothers and Sisters in Christ as well as too many people are arguing when they have outdated information.
---Moderator on 5/20/09


Darlene you still don't have all the information. You are reading the first few days of info. The story developed over two weeks. She is promoting semi-nude pictures today at age 21 as being Christian. She sees nothing wrong with topless Christian women for men to lust after. Even the ungodly know better than this if they have just some morals. Are you stating Christian women should pose semi-nude and this is Biblical behavior for Christian women? God forbid!
---Tom on 5/20/09


Tom thanks. I checked it out and found there were other pictures,but were all taken at same time,when 17. Trump viewed them and ruled no more showed than the Bikini's all contestants wore in Miss USA Contest. I think Christians shouldn't wear those either. Let's remember every Christian walks in the Light they have, as they understand,and are led by their heart based on their Biblical education. Not all Christians are in same place in Spiritual maturity. God takes a willing heart to serve and brings them to a place they are suited and equiped to serve. Galatians6:10 As we have therefore opportunity,let us do good to all men,especially unto them who are of the household of faith. Have we stuck our neck out in front of millions for God. She did.
---Darlene_1 on 5/20/09


Like all of us, Miss California, is no more or no less a sinner than any human. This is not the time to pick on her - non-Christians are doing a good job of this. This is the time to support her, not condem her. She may need counseling, but this is not the time to do it. She wants support in her stance, not criticism from Christians who may not approve of her life style. You might pray for her!
---wivv on 5/20/09


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Darlene, CNN was the source for the past two weeks. Based on your comments you have missed most of the news on the topic. Please read the prior posts in this blog IE Miss California is working for a Christian organization in a leadership position and promoting the semi-nude lifestyle as Christian. This is not Biblical for Christians and even less so for Christians in leadership positions. I am sure you would have to agree.
---Tom on 5/20/09


Tom please give me the source of your information that Prejean posed seminude over several years. I searched,only found on every site information she was 17 years old which would have been about four years ago,she is reported to be 21. Perhaps I missed a comment but I don't remember seeing anyone being concerned about Prejean lying on the paper she filled out to be in the contest. The focus on open sin but not the hidden one of lying by Prejean is interesting. In God's eyes sin is sin. Lets all pray God will lead this young woman into a closer,deeper walk with Him where her eyes are opened to God's truth of what a Christian walk is suspose to be.
---Darlene_1 on 5/20/09


Darlene, Miss California just posed semi-nude about a year ago. Not only did she not repent of her series of semi-nude photos taken over several years, she sees nothing wrong with Christians posing semi-nude. Biblical she is not qualified to be in a Christian leadership position as she is encouraging Christians to sin.
---Tom on 5/19/09


SusieB: That is very interesting about the term "Californicator." I guess that term has not made its way East just yet. Thank you for informing me of its true meaning. It is such a shame that it has been used in reference to Miss California on this blog because it appears that people have taken it to mean she is guilty of fornication. Thanks for clarifying for us.
---Trish9863 on 5/19/09


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Actually, from what I'm seeing of people in this world today who are calling themselves christians lets me know that they just really don't know what it truely means to be a christian. They think it's a kind of like a title in a sense.
---baba on 5/19/09


It doesn't matter to me what Prejean did as a 17 year old model,that's in her past,yes it's come up in the present,but I doubt there's one of us here who didn't do something when we were young,we would like to take back when we matured. God forgives our sins and doesn't look back why can't we be as magnanimous as God and pray for the woman instead of crucifing her. As a person who promotes Christianity now she seems to be trying to live right and doesn't the Bible say the Word of God does not return void. She can't take back the past and it is her present and future she can shape to fit her image of a Christian. Isn't it just like Satan to attack when we stand up for the Lord and His Word. Besides posing seminude doesn't make her a fornicator.
---Darlene_1 on 5/19/09


Trish....Out here in the west, we have seen people from California move into our states and buy property because it used to be a lot cheaper about 15-20 years ago. The people from California couldn't afford property in California anymore. All over this part of the country the prices started skyrocketing because of this. The word Californicator applies to much more than sexual sins. It is not saying that they are actually fornicators sexually, but morally wanting more and more of everything with no regard for anyone or anything until they get it.
---SusieB on 5/19/09


Tom...It's not making light of sin. It is condemning those who care only for their owns wants and needs without regards for others' wants and needs.
---SusieB on 5/19/09


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michael- (4-15-09) We surely know that the Holy Spirit is not with people who promote sexual immorality. Those people need to repent, destroy their trash, and beg for God's forgiveness.
---Betty on 5/19/09


Tom: Alan did not originate the term he questioned its use.
---Trish9863 on 5/19/09


Trish I had never heard the term either until Alan brought it up. I am with you it was another attempt of him to make light of sin and the abuse of women. I thought it was a word he just made up.
---Tom on 5/19/09


SusieB: I am a 51 year old American, and even lived in California for a year, and I NEVER heard of the term "Californicator" until this particular blog referring to Miss California. Where else do people use this term? If it is a joke, it is certainly not funny, because sin is never funny, and to refer to a person as such indicates a belief that person is committing that sin. "Bearing false witness" comes to mind.
---Trish9863 on 5/19/09


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Alan...Just to clarify the word "Californicator" for this blog. It is a tongue-in-cheek term which we use to refer to many of the inhabitants of California which is a highly liberal state in this country. We are not saying that Miss California is a fornicator. It's just a term used jokingly to refer to Californians in general. I know that you may not be familiar with this term as you ain't one of us Americans.
---SusieB on 5/18/09


Thanks, Tom.

Caveat to my post. As Christians if we serve men instead of God it is evil. If we serve men as if serving God it is good.

Jesus told us to wash each others feets. This is because we get our feet dirty in the dust when wearing sandals. Walking in the world leads to sinning. We need to be cleaned up every now and again. We do this for each other.
---frances008 on 5/18/09


Frances and Anne thanks for your recent comments on this blog. For some reason Alan is trying to downplay sin and I don't know why. He is making statements that have nothing to do with the blog other then to distract from the issues at hand which could encourage weaker Christians to sin. That really concerns me.
---Tom on 5/18/09


Tom ... Once again I say ... go back and read what I said.

No it is not OK to read Playboy, or pose semi-nude. I agree with your interpretation of what is right & wrong in sexual matters, and probably on all moral matters except regarding false witness, which you seem to find OK.

My standard on this issue of Miss C's behaviour is the same Biblical standard that you adopt.

I have made three points ... firstly that posing nude is not the only sin, nor the greatest.

We all sin

Posing semi-nude or even fully nude is not fornication.

And because of that you accuse me of promoting immoral behaviour.
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/18/09


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AlanofUk, you should read an article or two about judgement. Don't you know that the saints are to judge the world while we live. We are to judge righteously, not by outward appearance. Anyone regarding Miss California as a leader of Christianity needs their head examined, IMHO of course. Selling nude or semi-nude photographs of your body appears to me to be a form of prostitution. If I was to go to Roppongi and pick out the prostitutes, I would look for those who exposed most of their body to the world. Whether or not they commit any sexual offense, I would consider them prostitutes, and most other people would. Their dress choice shows what is going on in their heads and it is not wholesome. Prostitution is serving men, not God.
---frances008 on 5/18/09


Proverbs is very clear that women who dress in such a way as to make men lust after her is very wrong and is on par with a prostitute. Proverbs tells us such women reduce a man to a crust of bread and can lead them to hell. This is a very serious sin. It may not seem serious since everywhere we look (magazines, tv, internet, novels, billboard advertisement, movies, etc.) we are bombarded by it, yet it is truly a wicked sin and leads to much deeper sins. I think many people's consciences have become seared to the evil around them, and another problem is that very few ministers are preaching the truth that God demands we live righteously before Him.
---Anne on 5/18/09


It's just my opinion and maybe I am missing something here, but it appears like you are disagreeing with Tom. And I don't understand why because his understanding of the issues are Biblically sound. But like I said maybe I misunderstand what you are trying to convey.
---Jimbo on 5/18/09


Alan is reading a Playboy magazine acceptable to you since these are semi-nude and nude photos? In the USA, it is Biblical unacceptable for Christians and should be in the UK as the Bible doesn't have different meanings. Would you encourage your daughters to pose semi-nude? As I said we have to part ways on this one as you have a different standard than the Bible on this issue and appear to encourage women to be abused.
---Tom on 5/18/09


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Tom ... perhaps the fact that we live in two different countries means that our definitions of words differ. Over here, posing for nude photographs does not constitute fornication.

You say to me "You should be ashamed of yourself for attempting to mislead weaker Christians into this type of behavior and finding it acceptable for men to abuse women in this fashion"

Tom, I have never done this & you should be ashamed of yourself for your fabrications about what I have said. False witness is just as much a sin as posing for nude photos.

Jimbo ... If you read mine of 5/18, you will see I have given my full answer to the question
---alan8566_of_UYK on 5/18/09


Alan~ Sorry, I may have read something or understood something incorrectly here between you and Tom. Usually you and I see pretty much eye to eye so 'my bad,' but I'm glad we're in agreement here overall.
---Anne on 5/18/09


I have to admit brother Alan after reading your postings on the two Miss California blogs I really don't understand how your posts answer the original blogger's question. Maybe you should have opened your own blog question if you were going to be so off topic and the confusion would be gone from the blog? Obviously you have something different to talk about somehow related to the blog or you would not keep posting.
---Jimbo on 5/18/09


"I asked if there was evidence of her being Miss Californicator" Alan

How many times or different ways do the bloggers to this post need to tell you she posed for semi-nude pictures which is a fact she doesn't deny. As stated before we part ways on this one since you see nothing wrong with semi-nude pictures of Christians. Where do you draw the line? You should be ashamed of yourself for attempting to mislead weaker Christians into this type of behavior and finding it acceptable for men to abuse women in this fashion.
---Tom on 5/18/09


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Tom ... "Alan if you believe Christian women should be exploited and their semi-nude pictures promoted, I am sorry, but we have to part ways"

Once more Tom, I suggest you read what I actually wrote!

Where did I suggest I beleived that? Nowhere!

Anne ... I agree with all you say, apart from your assumption that I have said otherwise. May I please suggest you read what I actually said, not Tom's inventions about me?
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/18/09


Alan if you believe Christian women should be exploited and their semi-nude pictures promoted, I am sorry, but we have to part ways.
---Tom on 5/18/09

It is not just the "fact" that they were "semi-nudes". The latest news reports I have read are claiming a set of full-nude topless photos that were sent to one of the key pageant sponsors (along with a lewd comment). That person sent them on to a magazine, but they have not yet been published because it is not known whether she was 17 or 18 at the time of the photos. Of course, she denies it. (Like Ted Haggard denied his "downfall")
---obewan on 5/18/09


Alan if you believe Christian women should be exploited and their semi-nude pictures promoted, I am sorry, but we have to part ways.
---Tom on 5/18/09


Alan~ I think you're a fair-minded person and you like to get to the truth and most times I understand where you're coming from. But Tom is right here, and Miss California is not setting the proper example for little girls etc. She is not setting the proper example of what the Bible teaches that Christian women are meant to be. Now, if Miss California sincerely confessed that the pictures were inappropriate and no longer partook in such activities, then she would be a much more likely candidate.

I believe Kathy Ireland has changed from a woman who was once quite worldly in nature to a woman who has a great love for God and living in obedience to Him. Someone like her would make a much more excellent candidate.
---Anne on 5/18/09


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Tom ... please read what I actually said, not what you want to think I said.

But here goes with a few more answers

"No Christian should promote sin as being Christian regardless of the sin wouldn't you agree?" Yes.

"Is your point since this is sexual sin it's OK?" WQhat made you think that?

"You ask if there is evidence of semi-nude pictures?" I did not. I asked if there was evidence of her being Miss Californicator"

"you are guiding Christians down a path of thinking Christians should promote sin once they are in a leadership position" Read again what I said, and try to stop twisting my remarks.
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/18/09


Amanda ...
Alan, I wasn't trying to look down on other Christians, but if you think that I was you can believe what you want to believe. I certainly do not think that

I refuse to get into a Christian judgmental debate with you like the debates that I have seen on these pages sometimes I am glad aboiut that, because I too try to avoid judging others

Blessings !!!
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/18/09


Alan no Christian should promote sin as being Christian regardless of the sin wouldn't you agree? Is your point since this is sexual sin it's OK? You ask if there is evidence of semi-nude pictures? Of course there is evidence which she doesn't deny and thinks it's is OK. I would recommend that you don't post anymore until you read up as you are guiding Christians down a path of thinking Christians should promote sin once they are in a leadership position.
---Tom on 5/18/09


Tom ... I am sorry not to know the full picture. This story is a non-event over here, and does not appear in our media.

I've looked at various web items about it, and read what has been said here so far, and this is the first time that I have heard that she is working for a Christian organisation.

Whilst we all sin, I agree that if she is working in a leadership position with a Christian organisation, she should not show blatant & deliberate sin. Nor should anyone.

Having said that, how sinful are her pictures? Are we hung up about sexual sin, mores so than other sin? And what evidence is there of the accusation made here of her that she is "Miss Californication"?
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/18/09


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Alan, I wasn't trying to look down on other Christians, but if you think that I was you can believe what you want to believe.

I refuse to get into a Christian judgmental debate with you like the debates that I have seen on these pages sometimes.
---amand6348 on 5/18/09


Alan I guess that is where our wires are crossed. Miss California IS in a leadership position all over the TV, newspapers and radio working for a Christian organization stating what she did with the semi-nude photos is a Christian thing. That is why your comments about sin in this context don't make any sense. It sounds like you need to read up with what is happening?
---Tom on 5/18/09


Tom ... I will try to answer your original question!

"Should Christians promote sin?" No

"and be placed in leadership positions to further promote the sin?" No

"Should Christians have grace on this person?" Yes "and let them continue in their sin?" No

"or should Christians counsel them?" Yes

"and have the person step down from the leadership position?Theoretically, Yes, but why concentrate on MissC only, who is not in a leadership position anyway?

IE Miss California. See previous answer.

Miss California is no more sinful than other sinners, and we all sin ... that is my point
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/18/09


Alan could please answer the blog question as I really don't know what you believe.
---tom on 5/18/09


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Amanda ... Neither should Christians look down on other Christians
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/17/09


Oh how fortunate for us that we have people in positions higher up than us so that we can focus on what they do all the time.

I am tired of hearing about this woman. Christians need to focus on themselves, and their walk with Christ, not look up to other Christians.
---amand6348 on 5/17/09


how mature is miss california.do you know her do you know if she is babtized in the holy spirit do you know what she has been taught or have you considered where she was raised or whether her church is like the church in cornth or if anyone has talked to her .are you judging her or do you know how long she has been a christian.we are not supposed to judge one another we are supposed to pray for our brethren.
---michael on 5/15/09


--SusieB:

Sister, I completely agree!! Those who are in denial of their own sins, are the ones who wish to cast stones & will continue to do so, to their own demise.

Peace & God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 5/15/09


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Janet Jackson said she is a Christian too and TOOK part of her "malfunctioning"wardrobe off. Where was the outcry then?
My advice to Miss "Callie" is to drop the model routine and concentrate on Christ. A whole lot of other people could use the same advice.
Pete, I said, HEY Pete, call me at the church please. Thanks, Love you brother. God Bless.
---Elder on 5/15/09


How in the world did you ever get so confused as to think/believe for a minute that Miss Californication is in a leadership role?
---Pharisee on 5/15/09
It is an "unofficial leadership" role. Like it or not, her self-identification as "Christian" and her comments have put her in the spotlight. The problem is with the inconsistencies in her "testimony". Because she could confuse young teen girls or non-Christians who do not understand her failings, she should not be held up as a "good example" by the Christian media. In that sense, she should step down.
---obewan on 5/15/09


It is sad that this question is continuing. I will not be posting any more comments on this Californicator.
---SusieB on 5/15/09


Pharisee: I admit that I am torn on this one. Is this a blasphemy towards the character of Christ that we as Christians need to mount a defense against or is this just the press picking on Christians again? I think that I side with you in that we just need to let this one go.
---TIMOTHY on 5/15/09


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Good to see you Pete!

I think the main reason many think this is that she was on Faux News and did an entire interview regarding how her top 'blew off' in the wind in her half nude pictures.
Then went on to say what a good Christian she is and shed some croc tears.

I wouldn't have heard it if I hadn't been at my mother in law's house where she always has the TV blaring.

Enough of this garbage already folks.
We are responsible for ourselves and our souls.
NOT to be swayed by plastic 'beauty queen' barbie dolls!

CHANGE SUBJECTS!
---NV_Barbara on 5/15/09


How in the world did you ever get so confused as to think/believe for a minute that Miss Californication is in a leadership role?

Christ leads the church, the blind lead the blind, and the pattern of the world is lead follow or get out of the way. Jesus got out of the world's way when he allowed himself to be nailed to a cross, they're gonna do what they will.

Let her lead the world set on debauchery deeper into it if that's what she does, let the dead bury their own dead, I don't get what all the fuss is, Obama SAYS he's a Christian too!
---Pharisee on 5/15/09


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