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No Sabbath Rest

Some say that as Christians, Jesus is our Sabbath Rest. I don't see how that satisfies the 4th Commandment?

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 ---wendi on 5/20/09
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The Shabbat command will not keep you out of heaven or get you in?????????? I love how certain commandments here are to be followed and yet others may be followed. What a buffet! Choose what you want and turn away from what you dont want. But then again christains as a whole do this. The Sabbath is apart of the 10 commandments but not in effect. And if it is kept its kept on the first day of the week, a pagan day of worship. Shabbat means seventh, not first! Our Messiah kept the seventh day and so should we. Betty your messed up, and really need help!
---wayne on 6/1/09


Betty: You seem confused. When shown the NT command to refrain from blood, you insist "there is no kosher command." When shown that there is no NT command to keep Sunday instead of the Seventh-day Sabbath, you appeal to some obscure, non-biblical MAN as your authority. When shown that the Lord Himself declared that He was LORD of the Sabbath Day, you keep insisting that Sunday, the day held by Mithra worshippers in the early centuries AD, is the true Lord's day.

Why do you slight the Lord so by refusing the day that He established in favor of a MAN-MADE counterfeit?

And no, I never said anything about Jesus in a papoose - how nuts!
---jerry6593 on 6/1/09


The sabbath command was a command of obedience. The other commandments were pertaining to love for God and love for our neighbor.
****

"new covenant" is not license to BREAK perpetual (FOREVER) laws of 10 commandments

only FALSE ministers TELL this LIE knowing their flock does not SERVE and OBEY God in Truth and Spirit they serve traditions of men

LOVE FOR GOD is obeying ...as Christ described in many verses

True Christians love The Father and obey him Acts 5:32 ..whom God hath given to them that obey him

MANY self-professing christians DISMISS basic scripture serving their false ministers who claim 10 commandments are just suggestions
---Rhonda on 5/31/09


gina- The sabbath command was a command of obedience. The other commandments were pertaining to love for God and love for our neighbor. The sabbath command will not get you into heaven or keep you out of it. The other commandments have a bearing on your future. If God wants to change things He does it, without our permission. Get it? The New Covenant is this: Redemption through the shed blood of Jesus Christ only. The moral laws are written on the hearts of Christians. Sabbath was not a moral law. Jesus said He and His Father were working on the sabbath, which meant they were not keeping it.
---Betty on 5/31/09


suzieh- You need to get your little magnifying glass and look at those verses you quoted, "they have broken the everlasting covenant...." It only took once to break the covenant. Once broken it was no longer in force. The Israelites broke the covenant often. Jeremiah 11:10 "...the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers." Ezekiel 44:7 "...and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations." Laws that must be kept now, you say suzieh. You contradict the Holy Ghost (Acts 15:24,28-29). Heb.8:13 "In that He saith a New Covenant, He hath made the first old. Now that which is decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
---Betty on 5/31/09




jerry- My eating habits were made public because of your question of 5-29-09. There is no New Testament command saying we have to observe kosher meat laws. Sometimes I am concerned when I read your posts. Weren't you the one who insisted on another blog that Jesus Christ as a baby was carried around as a papoose? You overlook this part: "...for if Jesus had given them rest" If he had. He did not say He did give them a rest. Glad you noticed there was no pope until 538 AD. Christians were keeping the Lord's Day long beforen then. See Ignatius, & other early Christian writings. The sabbath was an observance, like clean & unclean meats. They wanted members only at the temple, but these days everybody is welcome. That changed.
---Betty on 5/31/09


gina- There are none so blind as those who will not see.
---Betty on 5/31/09


Betty,
Isa 24: the destruction under the New Covenant times,
of the people and the world which has not happened yet.
He gives the reasons for the destruction.

The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof,
because they have transgressed the laws,
changed the ordinance,
broken the everlasting covenant.

Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth,
and they that dwell therein are desolate:
therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned,
and few men left.

Conclusion:
People changed God's laws.
Laws that must be kept now.
The curse still exists for breaking the everlasting covenant.
---SuzieH on 5/31/09


Part 6 of 6
James 2

How can you understand all that is required?
(Believe Christ was sinless,
died/risen for your salvation,
receive full immersion baptism,
then daily...)

Forgive everyone, Confess, Repent,
And ask God to forgive your recent sins.
(Mat 6:9-15, Luke 11:2-13)

Then ask and you will be heard and will receive.
(Jn9:31, Ps 66:18, 1Jn 3:22, 1Jn 3:24)

1Jn 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God,
when we love God,
and keep His commandments.

To Forgive others, Confess, Repent,
and ask His forgiveness are part of His laws.
He said to do this: (Mat 6:9-15, Luke 11:2-13)
---SuzieH on 5/31/09


Betty: No dear, this is the first time you spoke of your eating habits that I've seen. Pray tell, where do you find your steaks without blood? Only kosher meat is thoroughly draied. Thus if you don't get your meat from a kosher market, you violate a New Testament commandment! Me? I don't eat any meat at all. But I don't condemn anyone for eating biblically clean, bloodless meat.

Hebrews 4:8 "For if Jesus had given them rest, then would He not afterward have spoken of another day."

Jesus gave them the Sabbath Day (Exo 20:8-11). If he had wanted to change it to Sunday, "then would He not afterward have spoken of another day?"

No, Peter was no pope. The first pope wasn't until 538 AD.
---jerry6593 on 5/30/09




For everyone who claims Christ as savior (Christians), entering the sabbath rest of The Lord is not automatic, the PROMISE of entering His rest REMAINS (Hebrews 4:1).

It "remains" for some to enter that rest (verse 6),...some will fail to realize that "AGAIN" He has set a certain ("TODAY"...THE DAY OF THE LORD).

Whoever enters The Lord's sabbath rest MUST cease from "labors"/works/deeds. Jesus is our ONLY foundation, NOT "Jesus AND our works"...we must decrease in order for Jesus to increase in our lives (take a backseat).

We must learn to DISCERN between what is genuinely good and what is not (the discerning "sword" of a Godly character, Ephesians 6:17).
---more_excellent_way on 5/30/09


We should not set another foundation ("works"). If we set another foundation, then repentance in Christ becomes impossible (Hebrews 6:4), and that apostasy will not be overlooked (since we crucify Jesus by our own actions).

OUR sabbath rest is THE "DAY" of THE LORD JESUS (it is not a 24 hour period). JESUS has done the only "works" required for us to have SALVATION.

The DAY OF THE LORD (the "risen Christ") is the sabbath rest of the CHRISTIAN (we are NOT Jews/Israelites).

There are two kinds of "Christians",...those who will "take the kingdom by force", and those who will "enter by the door" (John 10:1 and 9).

Verses from RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 5/30/09


The Ten Commandments still define decency and properness (propriety), but the obligatory "LAW" is no longer in effect for all who are INside THE BODY OF CHRIST. Eph. 2:15 says that the "LAW" of commandments and the resulting social regulations was abolished by Christ on the cross...

Ephesians 2:15
"abolishing in His flesh".

For those who have the "fruit of light" (Eph. 5:8, are "good and right and true") and have a Godlike spirit/character by nature, it will not be necessary to "OBEY" the rules of Godly behavior, the truly Godly will WILLINGLY live a Godly life (will not "take the kingdom by force") under the law of LIBERTY/freedom (James 1:25 and 2:12).
---more_excellent_way on 5/30/09


Part 5 of 6
James 2:9-13

How do you love God with all your heart mind and soul?
How do you love your neighbor as yourself?


John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him,
If a man love me,
he will keep my words:
and my Father will love him,
and we will come unto him,
and make our abode with him.

The first 4 Commandments are specific to the Father.
The last 6 Commandments are specific to our neighbors.
---SuzieH on 5/29/09


Gina: Excellent points!
---jerry6593 on 5/28/09

Hi Jerry. The quotes from Acts 15 that show the apostles meeting on the Sabbath come from the Message Bible. It is obvious that if Acts 15 has nothing to do with doing away with the Sabbath, and also, Paul would not have been found in Acts 18 still keeping it, and preaching to Gentiles on the Sabbath, if it had.
---Gina7 on 5/29/09


Acts 15:24 "Forasmuch as we have heard that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, saying ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment." Sabbath keeping was part of the law.
-Betty 5/27/09
The Sabbath is a part of the 10 commandments, which per James 2:10-12 stand or fall together. In no way can you separate the Sabbath from the 10 commandments and say it was done away with unless you state the 10 commandments, all 10, were done away with, which is nonsense since the New Cov agreement revolves around them. Your quote above only mentions circumcision, and since there is no commandment that states thou shalt circumcise, then it can be done away with, but not Sabbath.
---Gina7 on 5/29/09


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Gina7: Good to see you posting again. Keep up the good work. How about that SuzieH! She's doing great also.
---jerry6593 on 5/23/09
Yes, very good posts by SuzieH, and yourself.

Once people begin to realize that the New Covenant, ratified by the blood of Christ, revolves around the unchanging holy 10 commandment law of God, the penalty of breaking which is death, they will see that saying the Sabbath was done away with is utter nonsense. If the Sabbath could be done away with, then Jesus need not have died. His blood PROVES the 4th commandment still stands.
---Gina7 on 5/29/09


Part 4 of 6
James 2:9-13

Proves that if you break the Ten Commandments,
you are guilty of breaking the royal laws of God.


James 2:8-10
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

But if ye have respect to persons,
ye commit sin,
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law,
and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
---SuzieH on 5/29/09


Heb 4 in context:(1)
4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh * day from all his works.
4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
---Michael on 5/29/09


Heb 4 in context: (2)
4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein *, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time, as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
---MIchael on 5/29/09


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suzieh- Hebrews 4:8 "For if Jesus had given them rest, then would He not afterward have spoken of another day."
---Betty on 5/29/09


jerry- I already answered the questions many times. I like my meat without blood. Do you? Soaking meat before cooking it is a good practice. I like my steaks well-done. Do you boil your meat before eating it? Tell me. Do you eat pork and shrimp & lobster?

About Jesus' rest day: I'll tell you what I told suzieh. Hebrews 4:8 "For if Jesus had given them rest, then would He not afterward have spoken of another day."

I've read lots of times that Peter the Apostle was the first pope of the Catholic Church. Do you believe that, too?
---Betty on 5/29/09


>The Holy Spirit did not tell the Apostles to tell the Gentiles to keep the Sabbath. He could have, but He chose not to do so. Acts 15:28-29.

Then the HS also didn't say anything about worshipping only God, not to make images of Him and bow down to them, not to use His name in vain, to honor our parents, to not kill, to not steal, or to bear false witness.

As late as the 5th century most Christians were still keeping the Sabbath. As late as when the Tower of Pisa was being built they were still baptising by immersion.
---dconklin on 5/29/09


Part 3 of 6
James 2:9-13

The Old Testament teaches the same laws:
Deu 1:17
Ye shall not respect persons in judgment
(Deu 16:19, Pro 24:23, Pro 28:21)

Where is not respecting persons in the Ten Commandments?
Why is this considered a sin?


It comes under Thou shalt not kill.
How is this killing?

2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves,
and are become judges of evil thoughts?

2:6 But ye have despised the poor...

2:11 ...yet if thou kill..

1Jn 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer:
and ye know that no murderer
hath eternal life abiding in him.
---SuzieH on 5/29/09


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---Michael on 5/28/09

The Sabbath and the Ten Commandments say nothing about outward circumcision (in the flesh of man).

Those who understand have been redirecting those who would say it does back to the Spiritual circumcision who keep the spiritual laws of God.

Rom 2:26 ...shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

Rom 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly,
and circumcision is that of the heart,
in the spirit, and not in the letter,
whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Php 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit,
and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
---SuzieH on 5/29/09


Betty: Yes, you do continue to sidestep the REAL issues. Please answer the questions this time.

Remember, the other nine Commandments were also not mentioned there and the day you keep holy shows who you love (Sabbath=God - Sunday=Papacy). So yes, the Sabbath is indeed one of the Ten MORAL LAWS and shows, more than any other, love to God.

You'll note that the OT law of refraining from blood was still enforced. Do you eat meat? Is it drained of all blood and boiled in the Jewish manner before you eat it?

Will you choose Jesus' rest day or a MAN-MADE counterfeit?
---jerry6593 on 5/29/09


Story (2)
Acts 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner, The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
---Michael on 5/28/09


AMEN Suzie H


RCC BOLDLY proclaims THEY and THEY ALONE changed Gods HOLY Sabbath to SUNday

RCC with documentation stating ALL who worship on ITS SUNday worship HER - THE MOTHER **REV 17**

RCC BOLDLY proclaims God NEVER changed his HOLY Sabbath yet this MOTHER's whore's (PROTESTants) foolishly and arrogantly DISMISS Word of God to cling ever more tightly to RCC yet insist on being apart from her



Apostles and Christ always kept Holy Sabbath

RCC also states ITS daughters have nothing by Gods Word to disobey Gods Holy Sabbath
---Rhonda on 5/28/09


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Part 2 of 6
James 2:9-13 proves:

The Ten Commandments are part of the law of liberty/New Covenant.

If you sin, you become guilty of all the law.

The Old Testament is connected to the New Testament
because it teaches the same laws that govern/rule in the New Covenant
with great understanding and details.

Since 2 of the TC are listed as being required,
This proves also that the other 8 are also valid and required to be kept.

This includes the 7th day Sabbath which is also proven in Heb 3-4.
Heb 4:4 specifically says the 7th day Sabbath.
Heb 4:9 specifically says there remains a rest for the people of God.

This is irrefutable proof from the New Testament about the New Covenant.
---SuzieH on 5/28/09


and now the rest of the story (1)
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
---Michael on 5/28/09


suzieh- The Holy Spirit did not tell the Apostles to tell the Gentiles to keep the Sabbath. He could have, but He chose not to do so. Acts 15:28-29.
---Betty on 5/28/09


Those of you who say you obey the Sabbath have said that the rules about not lighting fires or preparing foods doesn't apply to you because you say those are extra, man made rules. Exo 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day. This is what God told Moses. Now you live in a house and you got a furnace that convenniently pops on. Read Ex.16 and you will see you should stay home and don't prepare food. You go to the restarant and get others to do it for you and you go to your meetings. Why don't you keep the Sabbath?
---john on 5/28/09


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Part 1 of 6
James 2:9-13

But if ye have respect to persons,
ye commit sin
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law,
and yet offend in one point,
he is guilty of all.

For he that said,
Do not commit adultery,
said also, Do not kill.

Now if thou commit no adultery,yet if thou kill,
thou art become a transgressor of the law.

So speak ye , and so do, as they

that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

For he shall have judgment without mercy
that hath shewed no mercy...
---SuzieH on 5/28/09


Betty
This is doing despite:

Jer23:17
They say still unto them that despise me,
The LORD hath said,
Ye shall have peace
and they say unto every one
that walketh after the imagination of his own heart

No evil shall come upon you.

Num15:31
Because he hath despised the word of the LORD,
and hath broken his commandment..."

Those that despise God walk after their own heart and break His commands. This is how someone despises the Spirit of grace by disobeying.

1Th4:2-8
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God,
who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
---SuzieH on 5/28/09


Gina: Excellent points!
---jerry6593 on 5/28/09


Jerry, SuzieH:

Hebrews 7 and 8 teach that Jesus is the new High priest and that God has made a new covenant with us. Heb. 7:2 says "For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also" and Heb. 8:13 says "When He said, A new covenant, He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear".

The old covenant of the Law had been done away with and within the new covenant the Law had been placed within our hearts. We understand the intention of the Law and God's heart in the Law because we have a better teacher with the Holy Spirit. The intention of the Sabbath is REST. One out of seven days is for REST. The day is irrelevant.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/27/09


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jerry- I didn't sidestep anything. You are trying to argue with the Bible, the Apostles & the Holy Ghost, not me. They told the Gentiles what to do, and it did not include keeping the sabbath. Why not? Can you answer me? The rest of the 10 commandments are moral laws about loving God and loving our neighbor as ourselves. Those are what are written in the hearts of Christians. Jesus said He was master of the sabbath day. He worked on it, as did His Father. He said so Himself. The early Christians did not keep the sabbath. I rest on the Lord's Day, Sunday, not on Saturday. The sabbath waxed old and vanished away like the rest of the Old Covenant.
---Betty on 5/27/09


gina7- What I said was not incorrect. Read it for yourself. Read Acts chapter 15 if you don't believe me, though I already quoted Bible verses on this blog on 5-24-09. Deny it and you're arguing against the Holy Spirit and the Apostles. You drew attention to Acts 15:21:

Acts 15:21 says: "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."

Acts 15:24 "Forasmuch as we have heard that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, saying ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment." Sabbath keeping was part of the law.
---Betty on 5/27/09


Jesus did "the works of God" (John 6:28 and 9:3).

We should let His works be "manifest in" us (REST "IN" the body of Jesus) trusting Jesus's works to be sufficient for us.

The Israelites/Jews that wandered in the desert for 40 years never knew Jesus (Jesus had not come yet), but Jesus's works had been finished since the beginning of the world.

Hebrews 4:3

"They shall never enter my rest,'" although his works were finished from the foundation of the world".

JESUS HIMSELF (His body) is our sabbath REST (there is no more sabbath DAY, Luke 6:5).

All verses are from the RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 5/27/09


Betty: You continue to sidestep the REAL issues, and rehash the same irrelevant verbiage. Here it is again. Please answer the questions this time.

Are you suggesting that the Jerusalem council did away with the Ten Commandments? Remember, the other nine Commandments were also not mentioned there. Does your religion consist of things that were not mentioned?

You'll note that the OT law of refraining from blood was still enforced. Do you eat meat? Is it drained of all blood and boiled in the Jewish manner before you eat it?

Will you choose Jesus' rest day or a MAN-MADE counterfeit?
---jerry6593 on 5/27/09


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Notice that the Apostles did not send word for the Gentiles to keep the sabbath. Why not?
---Betty on 5/26/09
Incorrect. Acts 15 reads as follows:

Acts 15:21

"This is basic wisdom from Moses, preached and honored for centuries now in city after city as we have met and kept the Sabbath."

The decision of Acts 15 Jerusalem council was to be spread city to city as they meet and keep the Sabbath. So it is obvious, whatever the council decision was, it did not include doing away with Sabbath for the gentiles they would be meeting with, because the details of the councel were to be spread, city to city, and shared as they met with the gentiles on the Sabbath!
---Gina7 on 5/27/09


The Holy Spirit told the Apostles what to tell the Gentiles. (Acts 15:27-29) The Gentiles were not required to keep the law. The sabbath was part of that law.
---Betty on 5/26/09

Amazing how clear Acts 15 is in affirming the Sabbath, yet people with "Sabbath done away with eyes" can read the same chapter and come up with what you just wrote.

Acts 15:21

"This is basic wisdom from Moses, preached and honored for centuries now in city after city as we have met and kept the Sabbath."

The decision of Acts 15 Jerusalem council was to be spread city to city as they meet and keep the Sabbath.

God's Holy Sabbath was NOT done away with in Acts 15
---Gina7 on 5/27/09


Over 50 languages have a word for the 7th day of the week, all of them are interpreted to mean the Sabbath day.

Dr. William Meade Jones lived over 150 years ago, and was a well-known London, England, research expert. He discovered in his studies that
the 7th day Sabbath was the only weekly Sabbath ever commanded by God in the Bible.

His theory was that many of Adam's and Noah's descendants would still carry with them the truth of creation week, and 7th day Sabbath.

William Mead Jones decided to research a majority of the languages, and as he suspected, he found more powerful proof, that
the 7th day is the true Sabbath of God.

All the World was keeping the 7th day Sabbath until Constantine 300+AD
---SuzieH on 5/26/09


In Response to ---Betty Part 2.

This is talking about the priesthood laws. Not the TC laws.
The TC laws are spiritual (Rom 7:14)

Heb 7:15
And it is yet far more evident:
for that after the similitude of Melchisedec
there ariseth another priest,

Heb 7:16-18
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment,
but after the power of an endless life
for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Why was the Levitical system weak?

Heb 10:4
For it is not possible
that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Gal 3:21 for if there had been a law given
which could have given life,
verily righteousness should have been by the law.
---SuzieH on 5/26/09


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In Repsponse:
"James suggested the Gentiles only abstain from pollutions of idols, fornication, things strangled, and from blood."

Where do you think these laws came from?

The laws you are quoting are straight from the Old Testament."
Apostles said also:

Act 15:21
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him,
being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day.

This not only proves the new converts could go and learn the laws of God, but they also could do it on the Sabbath Day. Since it says in the synagogues on the Sabbath Day you know the Jews did not keep
the pagan sunday as their Sabbath.
---SuzieH on 5/26/09


john: "Those of us who rest in Jesus as our Sabbath are still keeping the Sabbath. We just keep it the New Testament way. The same as circumcision,..."

Circumcision is not part of the ten commandments. The Sabbath is.
---Steveng on 5/26/09


wendi: "Some say that as Christians, Jesus is our Sabbath Rest. I don't see how that satisfies the 4th Commandment?"

Before Adam and Eve fell, God didn't need a plan for salvation because everything was good. The ten commandments were a "law" since the beginning including the Sabbath. The Mosaic laws were introduced to God's chosen people, the Israelites, thousands of years later.

The observance of the Sabbath day was established on the seventh day of creation so, therefore, Adam and Eve observed it.

The people will observe the Sabbath after Jesus' return.

So, was the Sabbath day obolished inbetween?
---Steveng on 5/26/09


john- If you rest in Jesus, then you're not resting in or on the sabbath, because that is a day.
---Betty on 5/26/09


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Those of us who rest in Jesus as our Sabbath are still keeping the Sabbath. We just keep it the New Testament way. The same as circumcision, We are still circumcized, just the new testament way. We are not didobedient to the Law. We are the ones who are following it perfectly, in Jesus.
---john on 5/26/09


suzieh- I don't hate any of the commandments. I kept the sabbath & judaized for over 20 yrs., then God opened my eyes.

We are still supposed to keep the moral law. But the sabbath was not a moral principle. The Apostles let the Gentiles know that they were not required to keep the sabbath. The Holy Spirit had let them know. Acts 15:27-29
---Betty on 5/26/09


jerry- The Holy Spirit told the Apostles what to tell the Gentiles. (Acts 15:27-29) The Gentiles were not required to keep the law. The sabbath was part of that law. The moral commandments about loving God & your neighbor are written on the hearts of the Christian believers.

You and suzieh seem to overlook the fact that you're arguing with Scripture, not me. Notice that the Apostles did not send word for the Gentiles to keep the sabbath. Why not?
---Betty on 5/26/09


suzieh- Tell me why you think the Apostles did not tell the Gentiles to keep the sabbath.
---Betty on 5/26/09


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Betty,

Rom2:29
"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly,
and circumcision is that of the heart,
in the spirit,

and not in the letter,
whose praise is not of men, but of God."

In the New Covenant:
Circumcision is now of the heart and not of the letter (in their flesh).

If it is of the heart it's not non-existent. It does exist,
but not the way it was under the "letter" written in stone.

They received HS due to having circumcised hearts:

Acts10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house,
which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

Ecc12:13 Fearing God = keeping His commandments
---SuzieH on 5/26/09


---Steveng on 5/23/09

Speaking of love:

"What if she'd fallen in love with her cocker spaniel? Is that an alternative life style? (By the way, the Bible speaks against that, too.) --Jim Neugent "

Man's definintion of love and God's definition of what love is are two completely different things.

That's why He gives us His instructions for learning and understanding the right ways. If you are not interested and find it too bothersome...please think again. Nothing but the Spirit of God will be able to save in the day of destruction. He only gives His Spirit to those who obey Him. (Act 5:32) Everyone should be very motivated to learn what He requires.
---SuzieH on 5/26/09


Betty: Are you suggesting that the Jerusalem council did away with the Ten Commandments? Remember, the other nine Commandments were also not mentioned there. Does your religion consist of things that were not mentioned?

You'll note that the OT law of refraining from blood was still enforced. Do you eat meat? Is it drained of all blood and boiled in the Jewish manner before you eat it?

Will you choose Jesus' rest day or a MAN-MADE counterfeit?
---jerry6593 on 5/26/09


In Response to ---Betty Part 1.

Hebrews 7: 12
"For the priesthood being changed,
there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

Under the Levitical priesthood, every time someone sinned,
1. They had to have an animal to give to the priest
2. They had to kill that animal.
3. Physical outward circumcision, etc

Those were carnal commandments.

The commandments that you seem to hate
are not carnal commandments,
they are spiritual commandments. (Rom 7:14)
---SuzieH on 5/26/09


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Exodus chapter 31 says" 13-Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

14-Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore, for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."
---mima on 5/25/09


The fourth Commandment reads.

Exd 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.


Exd 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:


Exd 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:


Exd 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

JESUS mentioned that doing good on the Sabbath is correct. So Doctors and Nurses should help.
---Samuel on 5/25/09


Paul and Barnabas & some others went to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about the question of circumcision and keeping the law. (Acts 15:1-5) The apostles & elders came together to consider the matter. (Acts 15:6) Peter said God had sent him to the Gentiles and that He gave them the Holy Ghost as he did them, putting no difference between them. Peter said not to put a yoke on the disciples that neither their fathers nor they were able to bear. That grace through Jesus would save them all.(Acts 15:7-11) James suggested the Gentiles only abstain from pollutions of idols, fornication, things strangled, and from blood. (Acts 15:13-20)They did not suggest keeping the sabbath & the Old Covenant.
---Betty on 5/24/09


Acts 15: 22-23 The apostles and elders & whole church sent Paul, Barnabas, Silas, etc. to Antioch. They sent letters by them also. Acts 15:24 "...we have heard ...certain which went out from us have troubled you...saying, Ye must be circumcised and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:" Acts 15:27-29 "We have sent...Judas & Silas, who shall tell you the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the HOLY GHOST, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things, That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication...."
---Betty on 5/24/09


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You sabbath keepers should not find fault with the LORD because His word is true.

Hebrews 8:7 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Now that's what the Bible says. Dispute it and you're not disputing me, you're disputing the Bible. Obviously, the two covenants do not co-exist. Furthermore, God said that this new covenant was "not according to the covenant I made with their fathers..." (Hebrews 8:9).
---Betty on 5/24/09


suzieh- (5-22-09) You speak of keeping all the commandments...do you think you're up to stoning people who do wrong? The people were commanded to stone evil-doers.
---Betty on 5/24/09


rhonda- The statements in the Bible are not hidden but out in the open for anyone to read. Hebrews 7: 12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." Hebrews 8: 7 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second." Hebrews 8:9 God said the new covenant would be "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers...".

You seem to be obsessed over the RCC yourself. Even good Catholic people who are true Christians have a better chance of salvation than those who deny and despise the Holy Spirit like some I could name.
---Betty on 5/24/09


The Sabbath was a sign that in six days God created heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed. Back then, God's people kept the sabbath, it helped prove they were God's people. Since Jesus Christ came to earth and died for our sins & was raised from the dead, things are different. Jesus Christ is the only way to prove we are God's people. Jesus Christ is the sign between God and His people, not sabbath rest.
---Betty on 5/24/09


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Hebrews 10:28-29 "He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

What about you, who consider the Old Covenant as good as or better than the New Covenant? He shed His blood to get rid of the Old Covenant.
---Betty on 5/24/09


Yes, the ten commandments are still in effect, but the commandment says to Keep the Sabbath day HOLY. It says nothing about doing nothing, and in fact if nurses and doctors who are Christian refused to work on the Sabbath day, they would put lives at risk.
---frances008 on 5/24/09


Don't make being a christian so complicated. It any wonder why christianity is on the way out. Denominations make being a christian complicated.

Let's keep it simple: If we are to obey God then there must be laws to obey. There are only two laws to obey - the two commandments Jesus spoke of (which are the Ten Commandments in abbreviated form). It's unfortunate though that many people today including christians do not know HOW to love. To begin, do an online KJV bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag" because living a christian life is a 24/7 lifestyle - not a once a week pep talk dished out by denominational churches.
---Steveng on 5/23/09


Betty,

There are many, but here are a few of the New Testament evidences that the Ten Commandments are still in effect:

Hebrews 3-4...There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God...

Rom 13:8-9 This is how you fulfill the law, by keeping it. Not a new concept. It is also in the Old Testament.

His laws describe His character.
When He says be holy because I am holy,
He is explaining to you His nature and He wants you to emulate Him.

He gives you all the details so you can understand.
He also gives you the condensed understanding in it's simplest terms.

Just because He gives His laws in it's simplest terms does not void the details of how to accomplish it.
---SuzieH on 5/23/09


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And this is why, it is written, they having eyes, see not. They having ears, hear not.
Can this be any clearer? Only when the word of God returns!
Good bye and good luck.
I wish you all, well!

Sorry the word was "sure"


---TheSeg on 5/23/09


Rom 13:8-9
...for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet,

and if there be any other commandment,
it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely,

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

This is not a new concept! It is in the Old Testament also.
Lev 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge,
nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people,
but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
I am the LORD.
---SuzieH on 5/23/09


Gina7: Good to see you posting again. Keep up the good work. How about that SuzieH! She's doing great also.
---jerry6593 on 5/23/09


---TheSeg

Rev22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments,
that they may have right to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Keeping His law includes this plan:

1Jn2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And if any man sin,
we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jn1:9
If we confess our sins,
he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Luk11:2-4 (daily forgiveness)
...Give us day by day our daily bread.
And forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us...
---SuzieH on 5/23/09


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I am a failure in the law, I myself, can not keep it
-TheSeg 5/23/09

But in Christ, you can. "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me" Phil 4:13
"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth the law...And ye know that he was manisfested to take away our sins, and in Him is no sin. Whoseover abideth in Him sinneth not" 1 John 3:4-6
Christ overcame by not sinning, and now He gives us the same power to overcome sin and be victorious.
"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am sat down with my Father in His throne" Rev 3:21
Either you overcome in His power and not sin, or not,and not is lost,as the wages of sin is death Rom 6:23
---Gina7 on 5/23/09


Jesus Christ is Mediator of New Covenant and not the Old One. The Sabbath was part of the Old Covenant.
---Betty 5/22/09
Old Covenant (Testament) is God writing the Law on tables of stone and Israelites promising to obey in their own power. // The New Covenant (Testament) is God writing the law through the Holy Spirit, into our hearts and minds so that we obey Him out of love, in the power of Christ's victorious death on cross. The New Covenant was ratified by the body/blood of Jesus,when He died on the cross.Nothing could be added to, or taken away from it,after that, otherwise it would constitute voiding the New Cov. Heb 8:10 = New Cov God writes His law in our hearts,when Christ died, 7th day was the Sabbath. It still is the Sabbath.
---Gina7 on 5/23/09


Covenant definition per Websters Dictionary:
1: a usually formal, solemn, and binding agreement : compact
2 a written agreement or promise usually under seal between two or more parties especially for the performance of some action

New Covenent definition per the Bible:

"For this is the covenent that I will make with the house of Israel after those days saith the Lord: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts, and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" Heb 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33

The New Cov is an agreement between God and us over the 10 CC, and the seal is the 4th, the Sabbath.
---Gina7 on 5/23/09


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