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Questioning Church Traditions

Is it wrong to question something that your church deems to be "sacred"?

Example: In 1633, Galileo questioned the RCC belief that all heavenly bodies revolved around the Earth. The RCC convicted Galileo of "heresy", even though Galileo was correct.


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 ---Sag on 5/28/09
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No it is not wrong. If you think that something is wrong it should be questioned and anything questioned should be backed up with scripture.Churches can be wrong but Holy scripture is never wrong.
---donald on 6/23/09


Rob - Good points. I know many pastors who seem to think they have some contact with God that the rest of us don't. It's a shame when any member of the clergy elevates himself above others.
---Gary on 6/22/09


Gary, I agree with what you wrote about tithing because it is the TRUTH.

However, I think you missed the point I was making about the use of the Name Reverend, and how people have exchanged GOD'S TRUTH for a lie Romans 1:25.

In Psalm 111:1-10 in the true context which it is written, it is talking about the attributes of GOD and GOD ALONE. Some translations use the name "AWESOME" or "TERRIBLE".

Concerning worship other Gods, many people I have came across who call themselves REVEREND, tend to elevate themselves to be God, they are to be the center of attention, and they are the ones who are to be worshipped.

They do the very things Christ himself rebuked the Pharisees of doing Matthew Chapter 23.
---Rob on 6/22/09


Donna66
In reviewing the history of Early Isreal, Post Exile, and Yahushua(Jesus) coming on the seen..human traditions mixed with pagan thought and spirituality blurred the covenant Messiahship and message of the Salvation.

In the early church(ASSEMBLY..the same problems creep up in Pauls letters as he corrects the Greek/Roman and Jewish cultures

Today we have so many traditions, that people have forgot what the scriptures really teach.

It's why the body of Messiah keeps having reforms..to get away from man's tradition and baack to the pure word of Elohim(God).

Good points Gary. Have you read Viola/Barna's book on Pagan Christianity?
---Yochanan on 6/22/09


Gary-- I don't believe that tithing is something Christians need to do. It was commanded of the Jews for their Temple. Today there is no Temple and no need for a tithe.

I've had this discussion many times with other believers. It is a tradition that is often infused with fear and folklore. "I'm afraid NOT to tithe!...my tires may all go flat...If I don't tithe, God won't bless me." Too bad they can't believe that God will bless them anyway.

I explain, as patiently as I can, But, for devoted tithers, it usually just stirs up "righteous" indignation.

It's not something upon which one's savation hangs...and tithing is good self-discipline. So, for the sake of good will, I cite scripture and let it go.
---Donna66 on 6/21/09




Gary~ I'm finding your teachings to be very interesting and enlightening. Thanks for all the info!

Happy Father's Day to all!
---Anne on 6/21/09


mima - No, we need to be completely truthful and NOT have church as usual. Last year The Lord spoke to me everyday for about ten days teaching me and telling me to "Tell the people..." The Lord has ordained me to teach pastors which is exactly what I have been doing. Three pastors now teach giving from the heart, not under compulsion instead of teaching tithing as they had done for years. The Lord will bless those who teach the truth. God is NOT happy with churches that collect His tithe. Those pastors are like the money changers mentioned in Word. Tithing, as taught in most protestant churches, is nothing but a lie, and it's done in the name of Jesus!
---Gary on 6/21/09


Mima - You are the first to ever tell me I should be a "little less truthful." I find that attitude to be very worldly, not spiritual. Do you also want your children to be a "little less truthful" when they speak to you? Aren't you glad that Jesus was completely truthful? Suppose Jesus had been a "little less truthful"? It amazes me how some Christians want to hide the truth in order to keep "having church as usual." I don't know how anyone who truly has the spirit could condone lies taught in the church. As Christians, we are suppose to correct. I wouldn't be much of a Christian if I didn't let others know the truth.
---Gary on 6/21/09


Gary
I read with great interest your post concerning tithing. And I must say that your truths are very condemning to the modern-day denominational church. Solution to this problem? You need to be a little less truthful, a little more traditional and think of good quiet music to take up collection with. ------ There-- that's the thing, and now we are back on track and having church as usual!!!!
---mima on 6/21/09


Donna66 - We need to be very careful accepting traditions in the church. After time, some traditions are taught as biblical when they are not. A good example is tithing. Tithing in the Christian Church, in the US, started in 1870 and has been a tradition ever since. Yet, there is no scripture to support tithing in the New Testament. Also, the biblical tithe, or The Lord's tithe, was ALWAYS on the miracles of God and NEVER or anything man made or earned. To tithe on one's income is NOT biblical, nor is it Holy to the Lord. Nor is tithing being obedient to God, or showing love to God. Tithing was a law that ended at the cross, and is now a tradition, falsely taught.
---Gary on 6/20/09




Don't leave your brain at the front door.

On the other hand, don't negate the need for "traditions" in general. If it doesn't involve something forbidden by scripture, and some people value it as an aid to worship....respect other believers and keep your peace.
---Donna66 on 6/20/09


We should always question anything that does not line up with the scriptures and whole consel of God.

There are alot of Jewish and Greco-Roman-Babylonian practices by the Roman and Pharasee cultures that need to be checked to see if it is of the Holy Spirit's leading.

Yahushua (Jesus)is our Judge and Kinsman Redeemer, not the Pastor Pope, Bishop or Rabbi.

Detailed early Christian history studies are vital to getting back to the basics of book of Acts and early Apostolic practices.

Beware of cults also preaching reform...Let the Holy Spirit guide all studies and check everything someome says.

Don't check your brain in at the front door!
---Yochanan on 6/20/09


Actually, Romans 1:25 has to do with worshiping false gods such as buildings, creatures, etc. No one worships a Reverend any more than they worship a Pastor. The word Reverend in today's dictionary means "pertaining to or characteristic of the clergy" so there is really nothing wrong with using that term. It's not a word that misleads one. However, today's definition of tithe does mislead as today's definition is totally different from the definition of the word tithe used in the scriptures. Pastor's mislead the flock when they talk about tithing and relate it to the bible. No one is mislead when speaking of a Reverend.
---Gary on 6/20/09


Rob - Don't get caught up in words. The word "clergy" is also not found in the Bible. The word "income" is also not found in the Bible. Since the word "income" is not found in your Bible, would you say it is wrong to give a part of your income to the church? Even though the English word "income" does not appear in the Bible, the people had income, even in biblical times. There are many words used in the Christian church that do not appear in the Bible, but today's definition of those words may fit other words in the Bible.
---Gary on 6/20/09


Many times I have shown people that the name REVEREND, is found only one time in the entire Bible, and it is talking about GOD and GOD ALONE.

People who call themselves Reverend and allow others to call them Reverend have done what is written in Romans 1:25. I have learned so many people are endoctrinated with the false traditions of men, that they reject God's Truths as they are written in God's Word.
---Rob on 6/19/09


I've not only questioned the pastors of four different churches, but was able to show three of them, in the scriptures, that their teaching on tithing was false. I show them that the biblical tithe was always on the miracles of God and NEVER or anything that man made or earned. I can show them the history where man changed the teaching of the tithe from God's miracles to man's income. Three pastors saw they were wrong and stopped teaching tithing. The fourth pastor refuses to meet with me. Yes, we need to challenge pastors when we believe something is wrong.
---Gary on 6/18/09


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Returning to topic: It is my understanding that Galileo's problem was not initially with the church, but with scientists who had accepted the Aristotelian view of the universe. They felt challenged by Galileo's new ideas and turned the church against him. The church accepted their majority,(but scientifically incorrect) nonBiblical view.

It is ironical that today much of the church has again accepted nonBiblical views of creation, and the universe, views contradicted by Scripture. In these churches those who take the biblical view are often persecuted and sidelined.

The problem lies with the church following the non-Biblical beliefs of men. When those beliefs change (as they do) where does the church then go?
---Warwick on 6/5/09


Denominational "churches" - each having their own tradtions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible - are the biggest delusion for today's christians. They are a product of Satan who is the father of confustion. Christians bicker constantly about whose "church" is better. They even bicker within the same denomination.

"Church" has a completely differnt meaning today than it did during Jesus' time.

The "church" is the christians who have a very intimate relationship with God. Jesus is not returning to join with (marry) a building, a denomination or a non-profit corporation. He is returning to join with His people.
---Steveng on 6/2/09


sag,yes we spend so much time trying to understand God,and thatb is as it should be. But we must realize that as mere humans we never will fully know God.Thats the awe of him that we read in scripture that men like moses experienced.As mere men we really cant comprehend God.We can try our best to emiluate him but scripture tells us plainly that we will fall short.The mistakes that the church makes,and has made are numerous,and in many cases savage.Not much like the love that jesus taught.
---tom2 on 6/2/09


God is the father,jesus is the son ( THE WORD OF GOD MADE FLESH ),and God, the Holy Spirit,aka comforter is the Spirit of God.all have the same nature,all are love,and righteousness,and are a mystery to the human race.

Why I added it, because of you wording. he is not just a church, as he is not just a religion or world. He is so much more.
A mystery to the human race, I love this line. May God bless you.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

I know God is a man of his word.
May God Bless You.
---TheSeg on 6/1/09


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sag God is the father,jesus is the son,and God, the holy spirit,aka comforter is the spirit of God.all have the same nature,all are love,and righteousness,and are a mystery to the human race.
---tom2 on 6/1/09


Tom2:

Bingo! I agree 100% with what you wrote. The church had NO business ex-communicating a man who disagreed with the church view of how the solar system worked.

Sorry if I mis-understood you. I'm not perfect and neither is the church. I find it very interesting that it took the RCC hundreds of years to apologize to Galileo. That is just proof positive that we all need to be "open" to admitting our mistakes.

I always investigate what a church teaches. Most of the time it is sound and correct. However, there are a few teachings, like the Galileo incident, that are serious mistakes.
---Sag on 6/1/09


thats where people are wrong. Iam not into church. Iam into jesus christ,and the gospel.The church has too many traditions that are not scriptural.
---tom2 on 6/1/09


sag,what in the world are you talking about?I know there is a triune god.my point is the church had no business excommunicating a man for heresey for stating the the earth revolved around the sun.not really a spiritual issue,sorta like exploding stars aren,t one either.
---tom2 on 6/1/09


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monique
The lord said honor your mother and father! I do feel God is the only one that can answer you. Have you read the bible for yourself, first! If not then do so! Always turn to God first!
---TheSeg on 6/1/09


Tom2:

Yes, I believe that Jesus knew that the Earth revolved around the Sun. He probably didn't have time to tell anyone because saving souls was more important to him. People needed to know about being saved.

The entire world shows us God's work. He created the Sun, Earth, Sky, etc. There is nothing wrong with KNOWLEDGE of God's work. It demonstrates itself for us all to see. In everything around us.

You can't separate God, the Father, Jesus Christ, the Son, and the Holy Spirt, the Messenger. They are all ONE and together. The Holy Trinity.

I'm not sure how you can be interested in only part of the Holy Trinity.
---Sag on 6/1/09


this one case you speak of tells us how wrong men can be in their thinking.what has this to do with salvation? which is the number one thing that the church should be doing. Saving souls.bringing the message to non believers.Iam not interested how God made everything,or how it works,or how it will end.Iam only into jesus christ and his message.
---tom2 on 6/1/09


do you believe jesus knew that the earth revolved around the sun?I wonder why he didn,t tell anyone?could it be this knowledge meant nothing to him?and telling anyone even less?
---tom2 on 6/1/09


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I find it appalling only two of you vaguely referenced the BIBLE so far. For real Christians, the Bible is God's basic instruction book as it pertains to ALL earthly matters -- including our questions. "Everything" must be held up to the scrutiny of Scripture as if it were a magnifying glass. Real Christians (like the Bereans) search the Scripture -- seek God -- daily to see if the activities of the Church are in accordance with His design, purpose & will.

The non-Christian church wolves in Galileo's day didn't seek God's word because (like the Scribes & Pharisees in Jesus' day) it wasn't profitable to their unholy plans. The sacred cows of men must not be worshipped in the Church!
---Leon on 6/1/09


Sag, it is never wrong to question something you feel is wrong. You might find out that you were wrong after you ask. You might find out they were and not have an explanation. I believe many, like Timothy, leave instead of asking questions. They don't want to be the bad guy. I believe it is better to ask and after discussing the issue with Scripture, and you are right, and they don't want to change I would then leave.
During the reformation, Bible's were written so that others could read for themselves. Many found out how wrong the view's of the Church were, and tried to reform it, but were met by much opposition and threats. Many did die and many others were put in prisons cells within the churches.
---Mark_V. on 5/31/09


hi i have several questions as well, my mother is into to church strongly. i ask her questions that i have about the church and she defends whats every the church is doing at the time someone please talk to me
---monique on 5/30/09


Cluny:

Yes, I would question SOME of those things too. Here are examples of the questionable ones:

SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT -- Many people have been injured in this falling on the ground. The pastor then says that that injury couldn't possibly have happened. Well, it did! Off to court now?

TESTIMONIES -- Some people tell how God made them richer. Later on, many find themselves in court for fleecing the churches. A false testimony or what?

WORDS OF KNOWLEDGE -- Claims that God told people to do something illegal, like murder a physician who performed an abortion. Hey, two "wrongs" don't make a "right".

---Sag on 5/30/09


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How is it, one believe God is alive. But when you have a question you ask a man?
Did he not say, all shall be taught of God? Then you say, I cant or dont hear him.
I tell you, you do hear and understand him, but you dont believe it. Its just to unbelievable! To easy! It must be wrong, let me make it harder, on myself and others.
Keep asking man, he is your brother, he wont deceive you. You can trust him, right!
Yes, hes brought you this far!
Look at God, looking at men!
And ask why?
---TheSeg on 5/30/09


This is how one of my Christian friends explained it to me: because the church is composed of men, it will always have it's flaws. It is not perfect, like God is.

I don't think it's wrong to question, which means I don't think that it's wrong to think for yourself. It's great to question, because also, sometimes you'll find out that you believe the same things but for different reasons, or you will have a more solid base in what you believe.
---amand6348 on 5/30/09


I'm not aware that a geocentric view of the universe was ever considered sacred.

\\
The early church had many issues that were revered to as religious theology when in fact they had nothing to do with religion other than the fact that either you believe God made it all and set in into motion.\\

Can you give us specifics about these "many issues", tom?

The who, what, when, where, and the like, please?
---Cluny on 5/29/09


"Is it wrong to question something that your church deems to be "sacred"?" No.

If an organization consider something as "sacred", they should be more than willing to give a biblical reason as to why that thing is considered as such.
---josef on 5/29/09


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You mean questioning things like testimonies, altar calls, invitation hymns, and revivals?
---Cluny on 5/29/09


Just as men have always done,and which the original twelve disciples did at times we as humans living in the flesh cloud the true meaning of life with the issues,and temptations of the flesh.Life is a spiritual matter,not this brief time we spend alive here on earth.Life is our eternal destination affected by our choices of whether we will follow jesus.Not by the traditions of men are we saved.
---tom2 on 5/29/09


Every issue in life is actually spirtually based.Yes they may affect the comfort of the flesh many times,but our reaction,our choices as a result of this issues show the world whether we are followers of jesus,or are just humans lost in the flesh and ruled by the flesh.
---tom2 on 5/29/09


The early church had many issues that were revered to as religious theology when in fact they had nothing to do with religion other than the fact that either you believe God made it all and set in into motion.M any early astronomers, and scientists were persecuted for their beliefs of how the natural universe around them worked,which in fact actually has nothing to do with religion accept for the aformentioned belief.How something works is not important per say. Whats is important is believing God did it.
---tom2 on 5/29/09


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It's not wrong to question anything with the right motive. Jesus is a big fan of uncovering truth, as he said "there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed."
---Pharisee on 5/28/09


There is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning a church position and I give you credit for doing so. I wish that I would have fought harder at my church over a certain issue, instead we decided to leave and I think that was a mistake in hindsight.
---TIMOTHY on 5/28/09


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