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Did God Give Us Free Will

Did God give us the free will to choose Him or did He create some to be destined not to be saved?

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 ---miche3754 on 6/3/09
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Dave, all who are lost are dead to sin, spiritually dead to God. They are under the Covenant of works of the law. They are all condemned because they cannot keep that covenant. They broke one law you broke them all. No person can be save through the law. When God brings life to a lost soul, that person is no longer dead to sin. He is alive to Christ. Our minds and heart has been changed towards Christ, but the flesh has not changed, it is corrupted.
"if you say you have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the Truth is not in us"
In case we sin and " My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if you anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"
---MarkV. on 6/10/09


Did God Give Us Free Will
God gave commandments to obey. Jesus Christ told his disciples to teach his commandments for people to obey. But God never force anybody to obey.
Satan with his servants teach not to obey the commandments of God. But he cannot force anybody to obey him.
It is up to the people whether to obey God or Satan. If it is not free will, then what it is?
---Dave on 6/10/09


Steve-rem,

My answer to your question. Ephesians 2:1-10, has literally (it is not with a hidden, twisted, or deceptive meaning) fulfilled in me. So, I am saved according to the word of God.

Then, you quoted 1John 1:7-8, but you left out verse 6 which goes together.

Then you wrote: "...Christians have a representative etc,.. " which does not make any sense. Do you mean that the Lord Jesus Christ is a representative for Christians?
---Dave on 6/9/09


Dave- you didnt ask me ANY question!
But let me ask you what saved you and not others and how do you keep yourself saved "IF" in fact you are.

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (iniquities)
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Sin is the transgression of the law "commands"
That is why Christians have a representative to look to for forgiveness and strive to be holy as their Father in heaven is HOLY
---steven-rem7000 on 6/9/09


StevenRem~ We can only be Jesus' deciples if:

-We are following Him
-We are obeying Him
-We are abiding in Him
-We are walking in His Light (His holiness/righteousness) and forsaking ways of darkness/sin.
-We are feeding the Spirit and not the flesh (For if we feed to the flesh we'll reap destruction, but if we feed to the Spirit we'll reap everlasting life.)

These are all evidences that we are true born-again new creatures in Christ. If the works of the Lord are not being evidenced in our life then we do not have a living true faith, but rather a dead false faith.

Jesus died for those who follow Him and are His deciples alone. He did not pay for the sins of those who still choose to follow ways of darkness.
---Anne on 6/9/09




God's will or our choice..a fine line.
Some may straddle that fence, swaying twix the two.
I choose, rather, to walk on the fence, that fine line, that narrow way, not turning to the left saying man has no choice, and not turning to the right saying God is not in control.
Only by letting God(not as if He needed my permission: God forbid) be in control do my choices become quite clear.
---MIchael on 6/9/09


Steve-rem,

Why you avoid the question and run around?

I have quoted: "Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, IN TURNING AWAY every one of you FROM his INIQUITIES." He has not copleted the work yet. And I said that the Lamb of God has finished his work, but the Lord Jesus Christ has not finished his work yet. You still ignorantly say the same thing without looking at the scriptures. Then what all you say is bluff and twist of scriptures.
---Dave on 6/9/09


Miche,
You have asked a great question, no doubt. But they will not answer.
The attorneys who are defending a rapist murderer know that the criminal did the crime. But they will not admit it in the court, because they are not after the truth, but they are to defend the criminal. It is a profession.
So also, whoever is not after the truth, but after some other agenda will not answer honest questions. It is a shame that happens here.
---Dave on 6/9/09


MarkV,
Please read your response to Miche 2 on 6/9/09.

Death is sinning. Made alive is living in God ordained ways, it is not sinning. Are you still dead after God raised you from death? You are claiming that you are still sinning.

God made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. You are still sinning (it is death, not alive) together with Jesus Christ in heavenly places!!! Does it make any sense?

Yes, Lazarus broke out of his grave and came out. But, you refused to come out, you are still buried deep in your sins. You want to stay dead?
---Dave on 6/9/09


Dave- Christ whom is the Lamb of God did finish the "work of redemption" you can't add your free will to what has already been "accomplished" this is why you can't seee it. You have to add something other than what Christ FINISHED. You add your obiedence, some add their baptism, some add their faith, goodworks etc.
AS far as Christ coming back taking vengence on those who obey not the gospel this si very true and what is it to obey the gospel? God says beleive on my Son and you shall have eternal life. Christ came as a represenative "he represented the people he WOULD save" He substituted Hiimself in their stead and saticfied law AND justice on their behave. How does oone know this? God raised him from the dead
---steven-rem7000 on 6/9/09




Again, Markv and Mima have skirted around the answer to the question.

How does God save a sinner if a sinner cannot hear God?

Paul was a sinner and he heard Jesus. At the time Paul heard Jesus, he didn't have the Holy Spirit with him.
So, how could Saul, a sinner at the time hear Jesus speak to him IF A SINNER CAN"T HEAR?
Markv and Mima say that a sinner can't hear God, so explain please HOW else God would save a sinner?
My Bible says that Faith comes from hearing and hearing the Word of God. What is the word of God? The BIBLE!
---miche3754 on 6/9/09


By the way Markv and Mima, you do realize that the scripture you are trying to apply is spoken to those already saved right?
They were quickened and given the Holy Spirit after they had heard.
They heard and began to have faith! Hello.
I have never seen such misunderstanding of God's word!
I am sorry I am just going to have to go pray for y'all.

And please and answer this question-
So, again I ask, how does God save a sinner if a sinner can't hear his words?
---miche3754 on 6/9/09


Miche 2: All sinners are dead and cannot of bring life to themselves. "But God who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses and sins (for the wages of sin is death) made us alive together with Christ (for by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" Could Lazarus have stayed in the tomb when Jesus called him out? Jesus cried, "Lazarus, come forth!" Lazarus broke out of his grave and came out. God alone has the power to bring life from death. Could Lazarus refuse to come out? using his free will and say, I do not want to be alive, I want to stay dead?
---MarkV. on 6/9/09


--miche 14 years after Paul had received the Spirit of Christ he made this statement. Ist Timothy 1:15,"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, OF WHOM I AM CHIEF. Please notice the tense used here. I am is present tense, which in this case refers to Paul condition at the time he made the statement!!! One can easily see that Paul was referring to himself as a sinner(a chief sinner)
so your statement,

"Markv,
You forget that Saul WAS A SINNER when Christ appeared to him and spoke to him.
He had not received the Spirit of Christ yet" seems to attempt to make Paul free of sin after his conversion, the above shows such is not the case.
---mima on 6/9/09


Miche,
It is a great question that makes a lot of sense.
---Dave on 6/9/09


Miche, I didn't forget that Paul was a sinner. Remember God saves sinners. He was killing Christians, while he was spiritually dead to the things of God. It wasn't until God called Him from his dead state, and brought him to life that he was able to hear God and follow God. Only those who are alive to Christ follow and hear God.
"And you (sinners) He made alive who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobediencee, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lust of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath.
---MarkV. on 6/9/09


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Markv,
You forget that Saul WAS A SINNER when Christ appeared to him and spoke to him.
He had not received the Spirit of Christ yet.
So, if he had not received the Spirit yet, Markv, tell me how did Saul(Paul) here Christ if Christ doesn't speak to sinners?
---miche3754 on 6/9/09


Micheal, the very words of Christ, "For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will"
A person that is lost hears but does not understand because 1 Cor. 2:14 says, "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him"
The lost cannot hear God. God has to bring him alive to Christ in order for him to hear, see, and comprehend spiritual things.
When Paul was sticken by God, He brought Paul to life, not only did Paul hear but followed His instructions. Those in trespasses an sin, are spirituall dead, God has to bring them to life. They are sinners, who are given the gift of faith and salvation.
---MarkV. on 6/9/09


Steve-rem,
You wrote some sentences to me on 6/7/09, and they have no sensible meaning according to scriptures.
The Lamb of God has finished his work, but the Lord Jesus Christ has not finished his work yet. "Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities."
His work will not be finished until he take vengeance on those who do not obey God. "2Thes 1:7 ... when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that OBEY NOT the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
---Dave on 6/8/09


Rob asked me in another blog 1 timothy 1:2-17 was a lie since I don't believe in a sinner saved by grace.
verses 13 says
Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Paul is talking about what we were before Christ saved us.
If Christ saved you, you are a part of his church, his body, you aren't a sinner. You're a saint of Christ unless you are faking it.
Saying "sinner saved by grace" is like saying "I sin BUT I serve Christ". That's a NONO. You serve Christ(no sin) or you serve the enemy(sin) No stradling the fence.
Connected to free will. You either chose to love/serve God or you choose to serve the enemy.
---miche3754 on 6/8/09


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1 Timothy 1:15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief
James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
God doesn't save or talk to sinners?
---MIchael on 6/8/09


The truth is the full message of God's word.

Now let's say someone says:

"I like ice cream if it's chocolate."

Now some people would look at that statement and read only part of it and say that 'I like ice cream."

But the statement 'I like ice cream' is not true, for I only like ice cream if it's chocolate.

The same applies to God's word:

The Bible tells us we are saved by grace if we are Jesus' deciples by obeying and following Him.

Some people only want to read the part that says: 'We are saved by grace."

BUT...

The FULL message of the Bible tells us we're saved by grace if we live as Jesus' deciples.
---Anne on 6/8/09


The truth is the FULL messsage of God's word.

Now let's say someone says:

"I like ice cream if it's chocolate."

Now some people would look at that statement and read only part of it and say that 'I like ice cream.'

But the statement "I like ice cream" is not true, for I only like ice cream if it's chocolate.

The same principle applies to God's word:

The Bible teaches: We are saved by grace if we are Jesus' deciples by obeying and following Him.

Some people only want to read the part that says: "We are saved by grace."

BUT...

The FULL message of the Bible tells us we're saved by grace if we live as Jesus' deciples.
---Anne on 6/8/09


Miche you were told that by someone that "the truth stares you in the face but you refuse to accept it."

The above is a very false statement since I have never seen you not accept the truth. The only thing is that you won't accept PARTIAL truths (isolated scripture, or bits and pieces of scripture taken out of context), but you will only accept FULL truth (comparing scripture to scripture to make sure ALL scripture comes together in perfect harmony.)

It is easy to see you are a very mature Christian since you do not get deceived by partial truths or deceptive teachings of men, but always look at what the Bible says in it's entirety to make sure you are living in accordance to what it teaches in it's entirety.
---Anne on 6/8/09


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Markv, I am still praying for you.

You say I deny what Christ says? I have to laugh at that one.
I have denied what you said. There is a difference, brother.
I know what Christ says. Haven't you seen me post scripture? of course you have.
And not just 1 or 2 verses taken out of context either. When I post scripture it is in its context which is usually more than 1 piece of scripture.
Like I said to you, your mouth says that God saves sinners, BUT God doesn't speak to sinners.This is a serious contridiction.
Get out of your doctrine and get into what God really says.
---miche3754 on 6/8/09


MarkV~ Miche has amazing love for you and all others. If she did not have this love, she would not be so urgently and lovingly coming to you and all others with the full gospel message. When she spoke of the 'forked tongue' she was merely trying to get you to understand that there are contradictions in your teachings. Contradictions is what is meant by a 'forked tongue.'
---Anne on 6/8/09


Miche, the words you rejected of Jesus is the very point you find yourself here answering to me the way you do. As Jesus said, "He who is of God hears God's Words, therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God" This very Words of Christ comes to you with the authority of Him whom you say you love. You also say you love me, and stab me in the back by calling the very Words of God false when you say I speak with a fork tongue. The love you say you have is not true love, if it was you would hear God's Words. But you don't hear. Many don't understand the passages, at least they can look and have an open heart in case they are wrong, but not any of you. The Truth stare's you in the face and yet you refuse to accept it.
---MarkV. on 6/8/09


God has created us to learn of Him and His marvelous Grace and to practice the Principles of Grace in all of our relationships.
---Janze on 6/7/09


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God speaks to sinners if He wants to.
---Betty on 6/7/09


Markv, I have not ever judged you, BUT I have said this because you do speak with a forked tongue. You say things that contradict. This shows me that what ever doctrine you follow, is without understanding of God. It shows me that you are not fully grounded in his word.
God certainly does speak to all and they hear him but some choose not to listen. His word says that but you call me a liar even when I provided scripture so like I said to you before, I will pray for you that in the coming times, God will show you his full truth on HOW he saves sinners. It is just strange to me that you say God saves sinners but you don't understand HOW he does it. I am still praying for you!
---miche3754 on 6/7/09


Miche, I tried to be kind to you, answer respectly, yet you tell me I speak with a fork tongue when I speak the Truth of God's Word. Anne says what I teach leads people to hell, Dave says I am sneaky as when Satan spoke to Eve, Nana, has said many things to me before. Betty tells me to park my car in hell.
But have you heard any of us ever speaking like that to any of you? all speak and answer kindly to all of your answers.

I find that all of you don't have a heart to perceive. You are like the Jews who answer and said to Christ, "Do we not say you are a samaritan and have a demon?" those were those who did not understand the Truth (Christ). After telling them "He who is of God hears God's Words,
---MarkV. on 6/7/09


Miche 2: "Therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God" Jesus answered them after the accusations He had a demon, "Jesus answered, I do not have a demon, but I honor My Father and you dishonor Me. And I do not seek My own glory, there is One who seeks and Judges"
Here, all of you judge us not only our faith but argue against the very Words of Christ. You even have the guts to call His Word a lie. Even when you don't understand you speak with your mouth what is in your heart. And you speak of not sinning, and how terrible it is to sin, but your own evidence shows who you really are. You can hide behind the computer but not from God.
---MarkV. on 6/7/09


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Dave-
your obedience better exceed the Scribe and the Pharisee's or you shall not enter in.
A believer well knows their obedience is out of GRACE AND GRATITUDE for God has shown MERCY upon them and they fall short every 2econd of every minute of every hour of every day etc.
Their only hope is in the ONLY one that was and is obedient the Lord of Glory. They will not EVER lo'k at their obedience as obtaining salvation or maintaining it. WHY? Coz they can't it all rest on the FINISHED work of the Christ of God. For this reason he came into the world. To SAVE HIS PEOPLE from their sins,(all the sheep's sin) not everybody's. God will save them for Christ sake.
---steven-rem7000 on 6/7/09


Steven-rem,

"Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." That is why God tells them what to do.

"LU 13:23 ... Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, 24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." Many will not do what God tells them to do. That is, they will not obey God. They will seek other ways than obeying God to enter into salvation. The only way to be saved is to strive and enter onto the strait gate of obeying God.
---Dave on 6/6/09


Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Let me clarify this MANY Luke13:24 strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Why won't they be able? they have a free will of their own imagination they freely hate what God loves and love what God hates, they don't even know it. MANY are religious in their own eyes they beleive that they are able, when God says there are NONE.
THAT is why it is all grace as Noah found grace and any believer knows BUT by the GRACE of GOD not of his own volition there go I.
Peace in the only true God and the true Jesus Christ
---steven-rem7000 on 6/6/09


Thank you dave, I could not have said it better myself. I know full well that Jesus has taken me out of the wilderness and it didn't take 40 years for him to do it.

Mark, there is that forked tongue again. Trying to set someone up for failure and using scripture that doesn't even apply to the situation. Like I said, I am still praying for you. That God truly opens your eyes and heart so that when He comes back you will be one NOT left behind.
---miche3754 on 6/6/09


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MarkV,
You talk to Miche real well as Satan talked to Eve at the garden!
All people in the world are under God, so also Israel. They did not obey God because they were stiff necked and rebellious. God has rejected them. So, God did not give them a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, just like God has rejected you when you chose not to obey him. But all are under God, even Israel. Read 1Cor 10:1-12. Miche does not follow Israel for an example. But she follows Jesus Christ for an example. "1Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, LEAVING US an EXAMPLE, that YE should FOLLOW HIS STEPS:"
---Dave on 6/6/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear? 1

The enemy(the devils) believes & trembles(James 2:19) at the Word of God BUT because they are the darkness of this world, they're unable to comprehend & hear the 'Truth of God's Light in His Word', to be Drawn into Saving Faith : The Light Shines in darkness but the darkness comprehended it not John 1:5.

We as 'Living Souls' Comprehend & Hear the Truth of God's Light but ONLY through resisting the dark devilish will of our flesh and we're Converted & 'BORN-AGAIN' by a 'Sincere Vow of Repentance' to deny the will of our flesh, upon which God's Grace Draws us into Saving Faith in Christ, where we submit to His Obedience into Death Living in us.
---Shawn_M.T. on 6/6/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear? 2

God isn't Deceived nor does His Grace Save the 'Insincere Repentance' of Believers like in James 5:19-20 & Luke 12:45-46, who later choose to 'Apostatize' by rejecting the Spirit to live in sin, never Sincerely denying the will of their flesh to be Born-Again & Drawn into Saving Faith in Christ, by their Vow of Repentance !

A 'BRETHREN' is a BELIEVER of Christ endeavoring to do wonderful works in His Name as a 'SERVANT' but not all of them who've said Lord Lord, are Converted & 'BORN-AGAIN', and shall still be Judged as a evil hearted unbelieving worker of iniquity who Christ doesn't know & never knew(Matt.7:21-23)
---Shawn_M.T. on 6/6/09


Steveng,
You wrote to me to read the entire Bible, whereas you don't even notice the context of the selected verse. You picked John 8:47 to prove that all the people of the world are deaf and cannot hear the word of God. It is not even common sense. Look the scripture in its context. "John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because YE CANNOT HEAR my word." It does not mean that they are deaf and could not hear, but they don't want to hear because it is hard for them to obey. Verse 47 is continuance. It means that they do not obey the word, and it doesn't mean that they are deaf and did not hear the word.
---Dave on 6/6/09


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Miche, I want you as an honest person to admit that the Word of God is wrong, that Jesus lied when He made that statement. If you think He lied then I am positive you are not of God. You might not understand why He said it but He said it. It is not a metaphor or alligorie, it is an explicit statement made by Jesus.
Now go to Deuteronomy 29:2-5 and read where it says,
"you have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land. The great trails which your eyes have seen, the signs and those great wonders. Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day"
---MarkV. on 6/6/09


If you mean we have a God given right to make choices,then yes we have free will-tom2

This is what free will is.
God gave us this because he wants us to CHOOSE to love him.
God did not make ANYONE to be destined for hell. If anyone chooses Christ, he will come and save them and teach them to act right according to God's standard.
If anyone doesn't choose God, they are ging to hell because they don't want to give up a life of sin for eternal life.
---miche3754 on 6/6/09


We all have a conscience and we all can choose between following good or following evil. Read Romans Chapter 2.

Those who choose to follow after goodness/righteousness are actually following in the ways of God.

Those who choose to follow evil are following Satan.

Choose good.
---Anne on 6/5/09


Mark, show me that in scripture. According to the Bible God's word, even the enemy hears God and knows God's word. He flees from God's word.
Saying a sinner doesn't hear God speak is saying that God does not save sinners. How else do you think God saves them, mark. Faith comes from hearing, hearing by the rod of God. You must hear God to have faith. You must hear God for him to save ou from sin.
Like I said, you speak with a forked tongue so I am wondering if you really know the God you serve.
God came to save sinners, mark. That is HOW he saves them. By hearing the Gospel, by hearing tha Christ came to save them. By hearing the TRUTH.
---miche3754 on 6/5/09


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James~ Nicely said, and thanks for the info. I agree with your thoughts concerning 'free-will' as well. God bless.
---Anne on 6/5/09


MarkV: "Listen to what Jesus has to say about hearing,
"He who is of God hears God's words, therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God" John 8:47.
How much clearer can that be? Jesus Himself says it. You hear Dave say I am wrong so you get on the wagon not even checking if he is right. How can you ever learn Miche?"

Here's something for you to learn, MarkV.

Paul, the Roman soldier, was killing christians. He did not have God in him at the time. But, yet, he heard the voice of Jesus. There are a few more examples, but you need to read the entire bible for yourself.
---Steveng on 6/5/09


If you mean we have a God given right to make choices,then yes we have free will.God knows who will belive and who wont,because he is all knowing.
---tom2 on 6/5/09


MarkV~ Shawn MT believes in free-will too. Perhaps he can help you to better understand it if you ask him.

Miche is an excellent teacher of the Bible and has been patiently trying to share scripture on the issue as well as a few other people, but perhaps Shawn would be able to show you more clearly if you ask him.
---Anne on 6/5/09


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All of you should look into reading the book "Across the Spectrum" By Greg Boyd and Paul Eddy. The book contains 18 debated topic within Evangelical Christianity. Leaders of each view argue their points both Biblically and logically. It is a very interesting read and gives you the eagerness to come to the best conclusion. This "free will" debate is one of the topics. As for me, I do believe scripture tells us that God knows all, but does not control all, God wants man to love Him.... to do so, we must have the ability to reject Him and therefore have free will.
---James on 6/5/09


Miche, the word "choose" is to make a decision on something. Everyone has the freedom to make choices. The will decides what choice to make. And you make a choice because you have a desire for that choice. And all those who are lost have no desire for God. They make many choices but never for God. They cannot choose someone they don't desire. "What has to happen for him to have a desire?"
God has to come to His heart. The same desire as when you confessed Christ as your Savior. Without that desire you will never choose Christ beause your will is in bondage to sin, and is doing the will of your father the devil. "Jesus said, If God was your Father you would love Me"
---MarkV. on 6/5/09


Miche, what is happening is that most of you don't read your Bibles. The things you miss complicates your theology. How can you know a verse in Rev. if you don't know a verse in John? That passage in John gives a clue on what is happening in Rev.
If you don't want to listen to me that is ok, but listen to Shawn T. If you could just learn one thing a day, it would be awesome.
Listen to what Jesus has to say about hearing,
"He who is of God hears God's words, therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God" John 8:47.
How much clearer can that be? Jesus Himself says it. You hear Dave say I am wrong so you get on the wagon not even checking if he is right. How can you ever learn Miche?
---MarkV. on 6/5/09


Thank you Dave. I take that as a serious praise coming from you.
I love you Markv, I really do. I just can't seem to fathom how you could really believe that God only talks to those who are saved.
God provides for all of his creations. And he talks to all of us.
Acts 10:33 no respecter of persons.
He poured out his Spirit on ALL flesh.
God reigns over the just and the unjust.
He created every human being ever.
AND He wishes that none should parish.
Saying that God made some destined for hell is completely against what God says and why he sent Jesus, his son,to die for all of us. The whole world.
---miche3754 on 6/5/09


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Miche,
You are just great. Praise the Lord.
---Dave on 6/5/09


Markv,
What do you think the word "CHOOSE" means?
Good grief! I have never met a man that grieves the spirit so much. YOu have people telling you that we do have a choice, and given you scripture to back it up but still you deny it!
I am just fed up so I will pray God opens your eyes that He gives every human being the choice EVERYDAY! to follow him. God never made man to perish. Otherwise WHY would he send his son? You think it was just for you to be self-righteous thinking God really made some destined for Hell?
NO! God sent his son for THE WORLD! Not just you. He wishes that none parish and God wants us to choose him and love him as HE loved us.
---miche3754 on 6/5/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

When we 'Sincerely Repent', we're vowing to denied the will of our flesh to Joyously Live in the Will of our Lord Jesus.

If later we're living in sin & rejecting His Spirit, then we didn't Sincerely denied the will of our flesh, in our initial vow of Repentance. Jesus is not deceived & He ONLY Saves Sincere Repenter.

God Judges us according to our will & by sincerely denied it, His Grace Draws us into Saving Faith in Christ. It's why the Lord said, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have Chosen you"

Just as "We're only able to Love God because He First Loved us", we're only able to obediently persist til the end by the Lord's Obedience unto Death Living in us.
---Shawn_M.T. on 6/4/09


"No where in the prodigal son parable, is free will mentioned anywhere"

Of course it does not mention it. There is no need to mention it. It is implicit in the parable.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/5/09


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I believe in free will, even though some verses in the Bible talk about predestination.
---amand6348 on 6/4/09


The statement "choose you this day whom you will serve" say's nothing about a person having "free will" It says that a person can choose and is asking to choose. No where in the prodigal son parable, is free will mentioned anywhere. He had a choice but the will was not in question whether it was free or not. As I said, you will find no passage that teaches that man has a free will to choose Christ.
What it does say about men's will is that all fallen man's will is to do the desires of their father. It also say's his will is captive to sin.
What the Bible also says is that when we are saved by grace through faith, we are freed from that bondage of sin, and it also says we are now in bondage to Christ.
---MarkV. on 6/4/09


The Prodigal Son CHOSE to go home the his father.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/4/09


The statement God made choose you this day whom you will serve after having the gospel preached show that we as free will moral agents have a choice to make.God has said that he would hope that none would perish but that all come unto repentance.
---laverne on 6/4/09


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The Bible no where states that the will is free. With all that is written by many here, you should find hundreds of passages that states that man has a "free will" to choose Christ, but you cannot them because they are not found in Scripture. Fallen man has freedom to go to the polls, but when he gets there all he can think of is to do his fathers will. His choices are never for God. He is spiritually dead to the things of God and needs an awakening, a quickening of the heart, a work that only the Spirit can do, in order for that person to see, hear, have a heart to perscieve and a love for Christ in order to choose Christ. He cannot choose what he does not love.
---MarkV. on 6/4/09


Moderator: We were ALREADY his and CHOOSE to leave him.

See Genesis 3:6
---larry on 6/4/09


We all have a conscience and we all can choose between following good or following evil. Read Romans 2.

Those who choose to follow in goodness/righteousness are actuallyfollowing in the ways of God

Those who choose to follow evil are following Satan.

Choose good
---Anne on 6/4/09


Lost Men is free to make choices but his will is not free for it is in bondage to sin. All his will wants to do is to do the will of his father the devil. He has no knowledge or faith in our Lord. Without God bringing spiritual life to him, he will remain the same forever,
"walking according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" by nature children of wrath"
But because of God who is rich in mercy, "because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses made us alive together with Christ"
---Mark_V. on 6/4/09


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we have our own free will. God did not want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit. They chose to. God does not choose the bad things in the world that happen now, we do. Everything we do is our choice. God has a plan for those who contend for the faith. We have control over our decisions. Gos knows everything about us, all the hairs on our head but though he is a jealous god he does not force people to believe in him. Those that do will receive their promises. Sow to the flesh, reap of the flesh. Sow to the spirit, reap of the spirit.
---louise on 6/4/09


Yes, God gives us free will just as He gave Adam and Eve free will in the Garden of Eden.

We have the choice to either:

1. Listen to the leading of the Holy Spirit and follow Jesus/(our conscience so it remains clean) and the Holy Word of God. If we do this throughout our life we are actually having GOD do HIS WORK in OUR LIFE and denying our will. We will choose not to sin for we know sin separates us from God unless we earnestly choose to repent of it/turn from sin.

OR...

2. Listen to our flesh/will and reject the Spirit. If we choose to sin and not repent we are separated from God unless we confess/repent.

Without free-will God could not rightly judge us, for we would merely be robots.
---Anne on 6/3/09


I don't know the answer to this. It's a question that has been argued for centuries.
But if there are those destined to perish, I believe that they have absolutely no interest in salvation. They are the ones who reject the Gospel without giving it a second thought.

I think that anyone who considers... even for a moment... placing their faith in Jesus, is within the reach of the Holy Spirit and needs the prayer and witness of believers.
---Donna66 on 6/3/09


Sad but true, there are wicked people in this world who do not want to be saved. They made a deal to live this life fully, and do whatever they had to to be successful and get material things. These people are not destined to be saved. Repentance is available to them, but they are not going to go down that path because of pride. They are blinded by idol worship and cannot come to God. It is God's will that some people are not saved, due to their stubborn refusal to repent.
---frances008 on 6/3/09


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Miche:

Just my guesses here. Some people feel that God can't, or won't, forgive them for something "bad" in their lives. That is not true. As long as sin is confessed, God is more than willing to forgive. He doesn't want anyone to go to hell.

Other people might be holding onto some feelings of bitterness towards other people. They feel that they can "play God" and sentence another person to hell. Actually, THEY are the ones with the problem. God wants them to confess their bitterness and get over it.
---Augie on 6/3/09


I agree too, that God has given us free-will
and that He wants none of us to parish.
I don't believe he made some to parish.

Now, I am just wondering WHY some actually believe God DID make some to parish?
OR that they have no choice to be saved by Christ or not. This opinion does not even line up with scripture so where do those who believe this falsehood get their belief of it from?
---miche3754 on 6/3/09


Yes, God gave us free will. Nobody is destined not to be saved. God is not willing that any should perish.
---Betty on 6/3/09


Miche:

I believe that God created ALL people with a "free will" to choose. God would have liked ALL people to choose only him, but that changed when Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden. People had to choose between serving God or Satan.

Jesus Christ didn't come to "save" people from sin for thousands of years. During that time, I believe that God allowed everyone to come back to heaven.

Once Jesus Christ came to Earth, people had to choose either: Accept Jesus in order to be saved and go to HEAVEN or Remain unsaved and go to HELL. The decision is EACH individual person's. Their own, "free will".
---Augie on 6/3/09


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Yes. The traditional teachings of man's type of "spirituality" teach that we should do things "by the book" instead of from heart/mind (conscience), but this is not what God really wants. God's true desire is that we have a CONSCIENCE and the "fruit of light" (Ephesians 5:8).

2 Corinthians 9:7
"Each one must do as he has made up his mind".

OUR SPIRIT should WILLINGLY do what God wants/likes (instead of having to "OBEY" a "command").

Romans 8:16
"it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit".

Have a "faith FOR FAITH" (Romans 1:17) for a more excellent devotion (1 Corinthians 12:31). Verses are from the RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 6/3/09


1 Timothy 2:3-4 says, "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
---Elena on 6/3/09


God gave us freewill so that we could LOVE Him (TRUSTING faith, Hebrews 11:6)...God is LOVE, we should desire to "draw near" to our true heritage.

God put things in scripture so that we could develop good habits (but not everyone will notice or want to develop good habits)...

Philemon 1:14
"in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion"

Jesus purified the flesh, but having the "fruit of light" (God's character/spirit) will also purify the CONSCIENCE...

Hebrews 9:14
"eternal Spirit...purify your conscience".

Develop eyes to see and ears to hear in order to learn "the depths of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10).
---more_excellent_way on 6/3/09


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