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Did Jesus Fulfill The Law

Did my Lord in your eyes fulfill the law and the prophets? Yes or No? Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

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 ---TheSeg on 6/7/09
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Jerry, in Acts 18:4 Paul was preaching to the Jews and the Jews at that time were under the Old Covenant of works. They still followed the Sabbath and Paul was bringing to them the gospel. It would have been dumb for him to go on another day since they all met on the Sabbath at the synagogue.
You have to remember that Paul was bringing something new to them. Both Jews and Gentiles who were there also got the good News of the Gospel. Verse 5 speaks of Paul bringing the Good News and the Jews opposed him and blasphemed him.
---MarkV. on 6/14/09


Jerry *You've been saying that the Sabbath is not a moral law for years, but have never provided a scripture to back it up.

I just did! Romans 2:15. How could the Gentiles who merely followed their conscience fulfill the law and not observe the Jewish Sabbath? You obviously do not have an answer.

Did Jesus fulfill the law?

Gal. 4:4-5 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

'Redeem' has an implied meaning of being fulfilled.
---Lee1538 on 6/14/09


Jerry - *Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every SABBATH, and persuaded the Jews and the GENTILES.

The disciples merely used the gathering of the Jews on the Sabbath to preach the gospel. On other days, they were not generally assembled.

So your verse does not in the least even imply that the disciples taught the Jewish Sabbath particularly to Gentiles. In fact, if you were to study the decision made regarding the Gentiles at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15)you would see that laws uniquely Jewish were NOT imposed on the Gentile church.

Sorry Jerry, but you continue to miss the ball and strike out!
---Lee1538 on 6/14/09


Lee: "I think Jerry would have to agree that since the Gentiles did not observe the OT Sabbath, that it is not a matter of conscience, hence not a moral law." I don't think so!

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every SABBATH, and persuaded the Jews and the GENTILES.

You've been saying that the Sabbath is not a moral law for years, but have never provided a scripture to back it up.

Again: Did Jesus fulfill the entire law or just part of it? If He fulfilled the entire law, then how can one part differ from another in its fulfillment and subsequent applicability or non-applicability to us? Who makes the decision as to which laws are fulfilled or non-applicable? You?
---jerry6593 on 6/14/09


"A follower of Christ does not have only 10 commandments but many more."
...
"Know the right thing to do by studying the word. Then obey the Spirit and do it."
---Mark_Eaton on 6/13/09
That is some fine advice Mark Eaton!
---Nana on 6/14/09




The Law only points us to Christ. The Law made no one righteous and no man except Jesus could fullfil it. Has it been destroyed? No, but we are not obligated to keep the Law.

A follower of Christ does not have only 10 commandments but many more. 1 Thes 5:12-28 lists at least 20 we should keep. Romans 12:9-21 lists another 20 we should keep. And the list goes on. How many are there? In my mind it all boils down to three. Two you already know, Matt 22:37-40 Love the Lord with all that you are and love your neighbor as yourself. The third is James 4:17 "Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.". Know the right thing to do by studying the word. Then obey the Spirit and do it.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/13/09


MarkV,

Why do you lie and twist the word of God all the time? You are not God. If I do not hear your word do not quote scripture to say that I do not hear the word of God. Again, dont pretend to be God.

In every post I follow the word of God for what it says, but you twist. If you quote me, quote me clearly and correctly. Did I say that it is okay to murder? I always say that we must obey God, including not to kill. You always say not to obey God since it is works. Did God ever say not to obey him? You have learned to bluff, twist the word of God, and blame the guiltless.
---Dave on 6/13/09


While sin is transgression of law, the author here views 'The law of God given to man as a rule of life'.(Barnes notes)

This refers to moral laws, not to ceremonial laws such as the observance of festivals, Sabbaths, dietary laws, etc.

Romans 2:14 tells us that Gentiles who followed their conscience fulfilled the law yet being uncircumcised.

For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.

I think Jerry would have to agree that since the Gentiles did not observe the OT Sabbath, that it is not a matter of conscience, hence not a moral law.

Otherwise how then did Gentiles fulfill the law w/o Sabbath observance?
---Lee1538 on 6/13/09


Mark: I agree. Our works in no way merit our salvation - only faith in the righteousness of Christ. But if sin remains in the world (and it does), then the Law necessarily remains to give it definition. Else, how would we know when we are sinning if the Law did not define it for us.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

If we believe that God hates sin, and if we love God, why would we embrace that which He hates?
---jerry6593 on 6/13/09


Joseph
Let me start by saying, the lord can not be divided.
It just, I cant see, how or why, anyone would say it. There is only one Lord!
But some do believe there is more, then one way. I see this, here and now!

This I do know, just like Adam try to cover himself, so do a lot of us.
If, I am anywhere, I know! Its not by anything, I have or have not done!

Is this a little over the top? So long as you believe its not by my hands.
God Bless you, all of you! And if you see fit, bless me father, for I have sinned!
And you only have I offended! Only this is in my hands.
---TheSeg on 6/13/09




Jerry 2: These statements have been revealed to those who believe. Rom. 3:27 says, "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith" Therefore we conclude that man is justified by faith, apart from the law." Works are excluded, no one has an once to boast. Later in 4:5 after explaining about Abraham justification, he says, "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, His faith is accounted for righteouness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works"
To the person who does not work to receive salvation his faith is accounted to him for righteousness.
---MarkV. on 6/13/09


Jerry 2: Jerry 2: These statements have been revealed to those who believe. Rom. 3:27 says, "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith" Therefore we conclude that man is justified by faith, apart from the law." Works are excluded, no one has an once to boast. Later in 4:5 after explaining about Abraham justification, he says, "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, His faith is accounted for righteouness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works"
To the person who does not work to receive salvation his faith is accounted to him for righteousness.
---MarkV. on 6/13/09


Jerry, the reason why He paid with His life is because we could not keep the law and become save. There is no salvation in keeping the law. You can keep the law as the rich ruler in Luke, keep the Ten Commandments, be right with God, and yet fall short of the glory of God. All those who are lost are under that Covenant. That Covenant is still in effect because it has not been annualed. It is condemning the unsave. They need Christ to fulfill that law for them. "For now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, been witnessed by the Law and the prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who believe."
---MarkV. on 6/13/09


Dave, it's sad people like you come on line to distort the Word of God. I know you have as much right to speak as others, but your comments towards those you disagree with come from hell. For those going to heaven would never say such things.
I said before you lacked understanding. You do not hear, and when you do hear with your finite mind, you hear wrong. As God said, "He who is of God hears God's Words, therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God" God said it.
No one who has a true love for God says he can kill, or murder. If you understood what it is to have a true love for God you would never say such things, for no child of God says it is ok to murder. Only those who don't understand salvation say it.
---MarkV. on 6/13/09


"Someone say Assuming your Lord is the Lord Jesus Christ
Something like this,.." That someone was me, there was no offense intended.

"what can I say?" You can say yes. Eventually everyone will.
---joseph on 6/12/09


Lee "The Sabbath is NOT a moral law."

You've been saying that for years, but have never provided a scripture to back it up.

Some questions for you: Did Jesus fulfill the entire law or just part of it? If He fulfilled the entire law, then how can one part differ from another in its fulfillment and subsequent applicability or non-applicability to us? Who makes the decision as to which laws are fulfilled or non-applicable? You?
---jerry6593 on 6/13/09


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Seg, just for the record, I agree with your post on this subject in their entirety.
In reading your post, I know of a certainty that Jesus is indeed LORD in and of your life.
---joseph on 6/13/09


MarkV: Loved your post! Another interesting thought: If the law (or any portion of it) could be abrogated by legislative fiat, then there was no need for the death of Christ on the cross. God could have simply said "I've changed my mind, you no longer have to keep these certain laws. I made them - I can change them." But most of what I see on CN is MEN's opinion that by some twisting of Paul's words, MEN feel justified in abrogating that which Jesus died to uphold. By paying the penalty for our sins, Christ FULFILLED the requirements of the law which are apparently still in effect. Why would He pay for the transgression of an extinct law?
---jerry6593 on 6/13/09


Did Jesus Fulfill The Law
Suzie, you have written excellent posts, God bless you.
Jesus of Nazareth, the Lamb of God, has fulfilled all the law. The servants of Satan say, Jesus fulfilled all the laws so that we don't have to obey any law. Let me put an example in their mouth: Since Jesus has fulfilled the law not to commit adultery, let us all commit adultery and please God!!! How does it sounds like? It is complete demonic.
Even now the Lord Jesus Christ is turning away our iniquities. Please read Acts 3:26. This work goes on. It is not finished. The servants of Satan are preaching not to accept this true Jesus Christ. It is sad that Christians are listening to them.
---Dave on 6/12/09


I want to thank all of you for your, input.
I do know my lord, fulfill all the law, for more then just two reasons.
I am the way!
It is finished!

Someone say Assuming your Lord is the Lord Jesus Christ
Something like this, well, what can I say?

I want to thank the one, who delete one of my posts.
Thank you! It was call for!

God bless you all
thank you
---TheSeg on 6/12/09


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Samuel - *First Lee you have admitted in the Past that the Moral laws of Torah and the Ten Commandments are still in effect.

Scripture tell us that Gentiles in being obedient to their conscience actually have fulfilled the law.

Gentiles 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them...

The Sabbath is NOT a moral law.

No Gentile nation ever observed the OT Sabbath but they could fulfill the law by following their conscience.
---Lee1538 on 6/12/09


First Lee you have admitted in the Past that the Moral laws of Torah and the Ten Commandments are still in effect.

But the way you state your point here makes it sound like you do not believe in any law or that any part of the Old Testament applies to Christians.

Good point about the life of JESUS being applied to us. JESUS as our High Priest takes His works and through His blood applies those to us. We are saved by Grace alone. But no one but JESUS has ever been saved by works or the law. The law just tells us what is right and wrong.
---Samuel on 6/12/09


Jerry, many do argue without coming to an agreement, it really is because they have not understood the coming of Christ, the atonement, death and justification.
Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law in all it's aspects. Our salvation rests not only in Christ's atoning death, but also in His life of perfect, active obedience. If to secure our redemption Christ only needed to make an atonement for us, he could have come down from heaven and gone directly to the Cross. But He didn't, for He also had to fulfill all righteousness by submitting at every point to the law of God. By His sinless life He achieved positive merit, which merit is imputed to all who put their faith in Him. Christ Jesus not only died for us, He lived for us as well.
---MarkV. on 6/12/09


Ephesians 2:2: "Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,)" commandment?
Hebrews 13:16: "But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased." What is good? Communicate what?
Love needs definition and boundaries, why Jesus defined a standard, "That ye love one another as I have loved you". No choice but to break into specifics, the do's and the do not's.

Luke 12:57: "Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?"
Judge? Are there any common laws in place amongst ourselves?
My brother could repply on account he took my cow and rebranded it to his account, "But I did it in love my brother!".
---Nana on 6/12/09


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The law is the Torah, talk about assumption. Your wrong and know it so let it go.
---wayne on 6/11/09


According to Barnes notes - the law in Mt. 5:17 refers to the five books of Moses, commonly called 'the law'.
---Lee1538 on 6/11/09
The first 5 books are the Torah, so as I said in a previous post, you dont understand what you quote. Yeshua always taught Torah and Neviium or Prophets. So your wrong .
---wayne on 6/11/09


Wayne - *The one question you did answer is correct, Yeshua was speaking of the 10 commandments

Totally an ASSUMPTION on your part.

According to Barnes notes - the law in Mt. 5:17 refers to the five books of Moses, commonly called 'the law'.
---Lee1538 on 6/11/09


In Response to:

"To say that Jesus had to keep the Law
in order for us to keep the law is odd!"

If Christ hadn't kept the law,
we wouldn't be able to kept it either.

Since He did, He gained the Victory, Resurrected to minister to us today His Holy Spirit, just so we can keep His laws as He said to do.

Thank you Father, and my Lord Jesus.
---SuzieH on 6/11/09


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Lee , its clear you wont answer the questions I left so we will agree to disagree. The one question you did answer is correct, Yeshua was speaking of the 10 commandments. But this is Torah also. So YHVH Bless you, you see it your way, I see it my way. Oh well this is how it goes.
---wayne on 6/11/09


Why all the long winded teeth gnashing?
Christ said he came to fullfill the law and thats it.

- the answer is YES whether its in our eyes or not folks. There is no NO.

Next question?
---larry on 6/11/09


wayne- *Your faith says if you love YHVH do what you want to.

You certainly got that one wrong!

When one becomes a Christian, he or she is born again by His Spirit and is given a new nature (see 2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new.)

And that Spirit works within the believer both to will and to work (see Php. 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure).

That new nature dictates what you will or not do.

If anything is contrary, then you can expect to come under His discipline (see Hebr. 12:6f For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives).
---Lee1538 on 6/11/09


wayne - *One last thing, what commandments was Yeshua speaking of when He said He who breaks the least of these commandments will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven?

Romans 13:9 The commandments, You shall not commit adultery, not murder, not steal, not covet, and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

While Paul stated that, it was by the Spirit of Christ.

One is never justified (declared righteous) by the deeds of the law. (Romans 3:20,24 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
... (we) are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,...)
---Lee1538 on 6/11/09


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Wayne - *See its very easy, the christian religion says all a person has to do is believe, and then live your life how ever they choose...

The promise of Christ is that whomever truly believes will become a child of God and will have eternal life. (Jn. 1:12, 3:16)

But what you need to do is to find out what happens in ones life when one truly believes and is made a child of God.

I am certain you will be truly amazed. It will be much like being blind and being able to see for the first time.







---Lee1538 on 6/11/09


---Lee1538 One last thing, what commandments was Yeshua speaking of when He said He who breaks the least of these commandments will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven? You say believe only, but James says belief isnt enough. The whole Torah and Prophets says something totally different then what you believe. Our Messiah was very clear. Well I will give you time to answer these posts if you so desire.
---wayne on 6/11/09


---Lee1538 See its very easy, the christian religion says all a person has to do is believe, and then live your life how ever they choose. Paul in the book of Galatians says we do not have to convert to Judaism and keep the man made rituals, but we must keep the commandments. Paul says he kept the commandments. But christians say he preached against it, so that would make him a hypocrite, is this what your saying? Plus will you answer my questions or will you avoid them?
---wayne on 6/11/09


---Lee1538 A religion of dos and donts, exactly! But its because in my faith we are taught if we love YHVH we do what He commands. Your faith says if you love YHVH do what you want to. Thats the difference. Our faith is very scriptural, and Apostolic, yours is a religion of believing only even though Yeshua and His Apostles said different.
---wayne on 6/11/09


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Wayne -*You will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, for you break the commandments and teach others to do so.

I believe Paul received much of the same criticism we read of in Galatians from the Judaizers who tried to force OT laws and customs onto the Church.

Your problem is that you teach obedience to laws that are not applicable to the New Covenant of the Church.

If I teach that the law is fulfilled by those who love others in accordance to what is stated in Romans 13:9, will I truly be called least in God's kingdom?I doubt it.

Your religion is simply a system of do's and dont's - not in the least a loving and personal relationship with Christ. Mt. 7:23
---Lee1538 on 6/11/09


If the scripture say, the law was made to make you guilty before God. I would think it is because you cant keep it. No, matter how hard you try! I know this is true.

Some say, you can keep the law in the lord. I dont think this is so. Why, you are not keeping it, God is forgiving you it, because the lord paid for it, is this not true.

So, in no way are you keeping it. Now can you sidestep the law? Well, if you do, then can you say, you are guilty before God? You have made the law void. You can not go before God. You are not guilty! Would this not be true?

You are forgiven, but guilty!
---TheSeg on 6/11/09


Jerry6593, I agree with you completely here.

To say that Jesus had to keep the Law in order for us to keep the law is odd!

Jesus (who IS God, by the way...the WORD who became flesh and dwelt among us) did not love Himself with all his heart mind and soul.

He LOVED YOU and loved not his own life even unto death.

The Law was not given for GOD to keep, but to show us our sin.

The Law was ADDED that sin would abound....WHY? To show no one, not even privileged Israel could keep it...and by giving it, God could then declarea,aLL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. Romans 5!

And, ALL fell short anyway...in Adam's transgression all died.
---kathr4453 on 6/11/09


OK, Some say that "fulfill" means that Christians are no longer under the law. That means then, if you are a Christian, then for you, the Law has been removed, deleted, erased, made of none effect, etc. These equate the New Covenant (agreement to keep the Law) as a new law in itself which supercedes the old.

Others are saying that "fulfill" means that obeying the law is "fulfilling it."

I still don't buy either. I think that to "fulfill" the Law is to fulfill the requirements of the Law.

Sin is the transgression of the Law. The penalty of sin is death (specifically, the 2nd death). Jesus fulfilled the Law by paying the penalty for my sin - His death on the cross.
---jerry6593 on 6/11/09


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In 2 timothy 3 the entire Bible is to be for our Doctrine and teaching. But some say no that is not true. We do not need the Bible we just need to love others.

But we are not just to love others we are to love GOD also. Is it not still a sin to use the name of JESUS as a swearword? Do not many who go to church get upset when they have to spend more then an hour or two in worship. They want to get home to the game or shopping?

Yes we are in a New Covenant. But does that mean Scripture is not valid for doctrine?
---Samuel on 6/11/09


---Lee1538
You will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, for you break the commandments and teach others to do so. You show a lack of understanding of Paul, plus you can never quote Yeshua on this subject, let alone one of the other Apostles, for the love of YHVH is keeping the commandments. Yeshua said nothing shall pass from the Torah until heaven and earth shall pass away. Well its all still here. You praise YHVH with your lips, and yet your heart is far away from Him. And still you look at yourself as being saved and guided. Only those who keep the Torah will recieve the Ruach Ha Kodesh.
---wayne on 6/10/09


On this issue of the Law, I found this excellent Sermon: "The Perpetuity of the Law of God" by C. H. Spurgeon
All you need do is a Google search for the tittle. I do wish that at least some of you would read it.
---Nana on 6/10/09


Lee1538
I have no doubt you can quote verse and chapter on anything, even though I truly believe you have no understanding of what you quote. That aside explain these things to me please- you run to Paul instead of Yeshua or John or Peter and James, so tell me about Paul. 1 Why does Paul explain his vision 3 different ways? 2 II Cor 12:16 Paul describes himself as being crafty, why?
3 II Cor 11:8 Paul claims to have robbed churches to do service to others,Why? 4 Gal 5:14 Paul gives a half truth,why? 5 Gal 4:14 Paul claims with pride to be welcomed as an angel or Christ Himself,why?
---wayne on 6/10/09


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Lee1538 6 Rom 2:16 Paul calls the Gospel his, I thought the Gospel was Yeshua's? 7 II Tim 2:8 Again Paul declares this is his Gospel, why? 8 Rom 16:25 Once again Paul says To Him who is able to establish you by MY GOSPEL, why is it his Gospel? I can keep going if you wish. Tell me why is all of this said? It goes against everything Yeshua taught, I havent even mentioned the fact that the way to establish one as an Apostle wasnt followed by Paul, but yet you and other christians dont even mention it. Plus there will be 12 pillers each with a name of one of the Apostles, so where would Paul fit into this?
---wayne on 6/11/09


Suzie -

Ro 13:8 Owe no man (or woman) any thing, but to love one another: for he (or she) that loves another hath fulfilled the law.

If we do just that much, do we really need the Old Testament commandments? They comprise the Old Sinaitic covenant when Hebrews 8:13 tells us was vanishing away - and did so when the temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. and all the sacrifices ceased.

Heb 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
---Lee1538 on 6/10/09


SuzieH - suggest that the answer to your question is in Romans 6. While we are free from the law, we do not have a license to sin as we died to that when we became born again in Christ.

Romans 6:1-4 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
---Jamison on 6/10/09


---Jamison on 6/10/09

If God's children are not subject to the Ten Commandment laws, why did Paul say that a brother who committed fornication was now wicked and must be put out and delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh in order for him to come to repentance to be saved? (punished/chastened)

If he were not required to keep the law,
he would not have been called "wicked".

1Cor5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company,
if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous,
or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner
,
...put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

In bold are the Sins against the TC laws.
---SuzieH on 6/10/09


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SuzieH, here is Jesus doing and obeying = fulfilling

Hebrews 10:5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein, which are offered by the law,

9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
---kathr4453 on 6/10/09


Jerry - *Does it (fulfil) mean "destroy, erase, obliterate nullify or make of none effect," as some believe? Does it mean to keep sucessfully?

It really cannot have any of these meanings since the verse states Christ came NOT TO DESTROY, but to fulfil.

Fulfil would then have to mean that Christ by obeying all the Mosaic law actually accomplished the purpose for which it was given.

Fortunately, those in Christ are not subject to the law but as members of God's family are treated as sons & daughters coming under that discipline.
---Jamison on 6/10/09


jerry6593

Christ defined fulfill as obeying the law.
Fulfill = doing, obeying.

Mat 3:15
And Jesus answering said unto him,
Suffer it to be so now:for thus it becometh us
to fulfil all righteousness. (obey)

Act 13:22
...a man after mine own heart,
which shall fulfil all my will. (do, obey)

Rom 2:27 (shows the opposites)
And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature,
if it fulfil the law, judge thee,
who...dost transgress the law?

Rom 13:14
...make not provision for the flesh,
to fulfil the lusts thereof. (obey it)

Gal 5:16
...Walk in the Spirit,and
ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.(obey it)
---SuzieH on 6/10/09


---dconklin on 6/9/09

Act 2:40
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying,
Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

2Ti 2:25-26
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves,
if God peradventure will give them repentance
to the acknowledging of the truth,

And that they may recover themselves
out of the snare of the devil,
who are taken captive by him at his will.

Ecc 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God, and keep his commandments:
for this is the whole duty of man.
---SuzieH on 6/10/09


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When Jesus fulfilled the Law, we must first understand the LAW. The LAW points to SIN. SIN leads to death. ALL have sinned. By the Law no flesh will be justified. These FACTS must be understood.

Jesus took our WRATH...AND He became sin for us.

He fulfilled the requirement of the LAW. DEATH.

Now when you receive Jesus Christ, you are saved from the wrath of God through Him.

When Jesus died on the cross He took the sin of the world upon Him. The ONLY SIN and sinners there are today are those who are STILL in their sin, because they REJECTED Jesus Christ who ALONE takes away YOUR SIN!
---kathr4453 on 6/10/09


Jesus was neither giving a new law nor modifying the Old, but rather explaining the true significance of the moral content of Moses Law and the rest of the Old Testament. "The Law and Prophets" speaks of the entirety of the Old Testament Scriptures, not the rabbinical interpretations of them. "Fulfill" This speaks of fulfillment in the same sense that prophecy is fulfilled. Christ was indicating that He is the fulfillment of the law in all it's aspects. He fulfilled the moral law by keeping it perfectly, He fulfilled the ceremonial law by being the embodiment of everything the laws types, and symbols pointed to. And He fulfilled the judicial law by personifying God's perfect justice (12:18,20).
---MarkV. on 6/10/09


Many argue this point without ever coming to an agreement on the definition of terms. What does the term "fulfill" mean? Does it mean "destroy, erase, obliterate nullify or make of none effect," as some believe? Does it mean to keep sucessfully?

Ask yourself, how does one "fulfill" Thou shalt not kill? I haven't killed anyone. Does that mean that Jerry has fulfilled that law?

I submit that "fulfill" does not mean either of those concepts, but rather something much deeper. What say you?
---jerry6593 on 6/10/09


Your Words

We do not have to remain guilty.
The scripture does say we are to:
1st cast out our sin, (confess,repent,ask forgiveness)
then we will see clearly,
3rd we are to cast out of our brother's eyes.
We can become clean through True Faith

Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
---TheSeg on 6/10/09


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The Seg,

You quoted this scripture on ProChoice Blog:

"...first cast out the beam out of thine own eye,

and then shalt thou see clearly

to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

We do not have to remain guilty.

The scripture does say we are to:
1st cast out our sin, (confess,repent,ask forgiveness)
then we will see clearly,
3rd we are to cast out of our brother's eyes.

We can become clean through True Faith
- The New and Living Way.

Thanks for the scripture.
---SuzieH on 6/9/09


Jesus fulfilled the Law in all its ways. It is His righteousness alone that saves us. We cannot save ourselves. We are to ask Him for forgiveness for our sins and then we are to walk in the Masters footsteps.
---dconklin on 6/9/09


mima: "So right here we learn it has been taken out of the way!!"
Why did Christ tell you to keep them then?

Mat19:17...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jn15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love,
even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jn2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him,
if we keep his commandments.

1Jn3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him,
because we keep his commandments,
and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

If we aren't keeping them, then we are not pleasing in His sight.
He is against those that do evil.
---SuzieH on 6/9/09


One more thing, for now, maybe you think it to easy to except the word of God. Maybe you should look at it more, it should not be that easy to except.

At lest, I didnt find it, all that easy, to except! Maybe, look for the whys?
---TheSeg on 6/9/09


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Yes or no!
Is it not written, if you break one of the lease you are guilty of all? Yes!

Again I say, only what I see is written, the law was made to prove you are guilty, before God! Yes!

If you say, I am guilty before you. Well then, are you not guilty, before me?
Then are we not, using his word, to condemn one another?

I believe, no one is guiltier, then anyone else. Why, if you look are we all not equally guilty, before God? Because of the lease, for all have sinned!

Can anyone say, I have kept the all the law? No!
I dont know! But, maybe even worse, I have tried!
Neither hot nor cold!
God bless you
---TheSeg on 6/9/09


Mima, let me ask you this, because He fulfilled the law, does this mean your free to do what you want, can you murder, lie, commit adultery and so forth? He didnt come to loosen the law and prophets, remember this statement. He who breaks the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom. So now I say, do we have to fulfill these things?
---wayne on 6/9/09


Mima, why is it when a so called christain hears the term obey, they freak out and then say oh wasnt what Yeshua did for us good enough? This is why Yeshua will tell those who use His Name in prophecy, and healing the sick and many miricles that He never new them for they work iniquity. Look up the word iniquity- it means lawless, Torahlessness, them who have no law. Only one group uses His Name and yet denies the Torah.......christains.It may upset you and others, but this is fact.
---wayne on 6/9/09


Wow, mima
God bless you

I think its should always be a simple! Yes or No!
---TheSeg on 6/9/09


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If this statement is true,"Just because He fulfilled doesnt mean we do not have to."
---wayne on 6/9/09

Questions arise, was his fulfill of the law not enough? Do you somehow suppose that you can improve on his fulfillment?
Do you believe the father requires two payments?
Who's righteousness(including the fulfillment of the law) are you depending on, yours or his?
---mima on 6/9/09


Yes Yeshua fulfilled the law. Yet He told us to do the same. Just because He fulfilled doesnt mean we do not have to.
---wayne on 6/9/09


Good ?tion
Did or did Christ not finish the work His Father sent Him to do?

answer: Yes... and NO one can add to the work Christ FINISHED.

Again that is why it is by the grace of GOD any sinner is saved.

He SHALL save HIs people, not ALL people from their sins and they are sinners until they die. TRUSTING in their only hope, the God/man representative of HIS people.

that anit hard to understand

peace in Christ, outside are dogs and hormongers and the only peace is by the grace of God
---steven-rem7000 on 6/8/09


Many people fail to see that the law(the 10 Commandments) was for a different dispensation, a different covenant. The Bible plainly states what happened to the 10 Commandments in Colossians 2:14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross, "what other hand writing of ordinance was there except the 10 Commandments(written by God's own finder). It was against us because we could not keep it. So right here we learn it has been taken out of the way!!!!!
---mima on 6/8/09


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Yes JESUS came to fulfill the Law. Since the law was incomplete and could not save us.

Did JESUS come to destroy the Law. No. Matthew 5:17 says he did not come to destroy the law.

So why do some teach fulfill means destroy?

What is the purpose of the Law? To define what is a sin.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
---Samuel on 6/8/09


"Did my Lord in your eyes fulfill the law and the prophets?" Yes.

Assuming your Lord is the Lord Jesus Christ, you answered your own question with the verse you quoted. With the understanding that the word "fulfil" as used in this verse is a consummation of the task initiated through the law and foretold of prophets, concerning the arrangement and agreement established for Him before the foundation of this age, and brought to completion through His sojourning life on earth, His atoning sacrifice, and His subsequent ascension.
---joseph on 6/8/09


Ga 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The mission Christ had was to fulfill the law (Mt. 5:17) and we can believe He did just that.

In any case Scripture says that we are able to fulfil the law by simply loving our neighbor.
---Lee1538 on 6/7/09


Yes, Jesus Christ fulfilled the law and the prophets. Luke 16:6 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached...." Galatians 3:23-24 "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
---Betty on 6/7/09


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You know he did Seg!
---Pharisee on 6/7/09


Yes, Jesus has fulfilled the law. The problem is that the world has NOT chosen to live according to what Jesus taught.

I once had a argument over this with some Moselms. They told me that Jesus was only a teacher, or prophet, who didn't finish his work. Many Moslems believe that the prophet Mohammed was sent by Allah to finish what Jesus didn't and bring "peace to Earth". I told them that that isn't true. I think that it is an error on the part of Islam that Jesus didn't fulfill the law. Worldly thinking there.

Jesus Christ is without a doubt "God" and he completed his teachings, and fulfilled the law, before returning to heaven.
---Augie on 6/7/09


The law was made, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the entire world may become guilty before God. So since, you keep throwing the law at each other. It must mean, you somehow think, he did not fulfilling the law. I guess!

So, which laws are in affect, yesterday and today! The lord said one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

But, he also said.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil!

Here the thing, did my lord in your eyes fulfill the law and the prophets.

I think its a simple! Yes or No!
God Bless You
---TheSeg on 6/7/09


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