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Is Scott Roeder A Hero

Scott Roeder is accused of killing Dr. George Tiller who performed late-term abortions. Should Scott Roeder be considered a hero and did he do the will of God?

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//Sometimes messages get lost because the site robot detects something "forbidden" in it, like a censorable word, or a link to a web site - without human moderators even seeing it. Rephrasing a post can fix this.---StrongAxe on 9/28/16

Thanks, I did all that and I didn't say anything that needed to be censored.

I have said worst in other blogs.

I only spoke about your sources and why they didn't cite their research data.

They might have some connection with the Sources you gave.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/28/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: the Moderators will not release my answer to your last comment.

Sometimes messages get lost because the site robot detects something "forbidden" in it, like a censorable word, or a link to a web site - without human moderators even seeing it. Rephrasing a post can fix this.

Sometimes, they just disappear. I have occasionally posted messages that have disappeared, and then reposted the same identical message later, and had it appear successfully.
---StrongAxe on 9/28/16


Sorry StongAxe, the Moderators will not release my answer to your last comment.

You would understand completely if they would release it.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/27/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: So tell me, HOW do you "know"?

I told you. I quoted two sites (which, admittedly, don't cite their sources, so I can't go deeper).

Me knocking down your statement isn't stating a fact, but challenging your statement as being a fact.

You statement can show that my numbers MIGHT be incorrect. Since you cite no sources, but merely personal opinion, they cannot show tha my numbers MUST be incorrect. At best, it reduces to "he said, she said".

NO ONE knows how many fertilized eggs dies-Me

That's not what you said. You said YOU KNEW that my numbers were incorrect, not that nobody knows if they're correct - which is very different.
---StrongAxe on 9/24/16


StrongAxe, you made a statement wanting us to accept it as fact

**If 50% of all fertilized embryos fail to implant, and die as a result, BY DESIGN,--StrongAxe 9/14/16

**"50% of fertilized ova fail to implant ANYWAY---StrongAxe 9/20/16

//So tell me, HOW do you "know"?//

Me knocking down your statement isn't stating a fact, but challenging your statement as being a fact.

We are STILL on your fact.

I didn't make a separate fact not connected to your fact.

//I asked YOU to cite YOUR sources, which you did not.---StrongAxe 9/23/16

Still on your fact:

50% of all fertilized eggs are aborted.- You

NO ONE knows how many fertilized eggs dies-Me
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/23/16




Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Again it is you making the claim as a FACT, not me.

I am claiming a fact - by citing sources. You are ALSO claiming a fact - by saying you "KNOW" something. So tell me, HOW do you "know"?

Neither are you. That's why I challenged you.

I know, which is why I cited other authorities. You just cited your own "knowledge".

Now you know why I asked you to cite your sources.

Which I did. I don't have the wherewithal to do the research, or track down THEIR sources ad infinitum. I asked YOU to cite YOUR sources, which you did not.
---StrongAxe on 9/23/16


//how do you know you're right?//

Again it is you making the claim as a FACT, not me.

//Are you a biologist?//

Neither are you. That's why I challenged you.

//I have cited my sources.//

Yes, but the Sources DIDN'T cite any research data.

One can give an opinion. Free Speech.
But you can't state a fact when it isn't.

//You have cited only your own personal opinion.//
Amen!

//Opinions are cheap.// CORRECT

Research are tedious and costly.
But once done and cited, it is hard for anyone(me included) to REFUTE!

//a matter of pure opinion, not backed up by any facts or corroboration.---StrongAxe

RIGHT AGAIN

Now you know why I asked you to cite your sources.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/23/16


Cite your sources, cite YOUR sources. You two can bicker all you want and no one will win because the sources you have sourced are not reliable - not at all. In today's world there is no such thing as a reliable source. Human development, global warming, one week coffee is bad for you, the next week coffee is good for you. The same for eggs, GMO foods, you name it. Scientists are being paid off to fudge the numbers of their experiments for what? Money, or the love thereof. As an investigative news reporter for the past 32 years I do know a little about research. In todays world you can't trust anyone, but God.

The only reliable source is the bible.
---Steveng on 9/22/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: I kept saying it's impossible

You keep saying that, but how do you know you're right? Are you a biologist? I have cited my sources. You have cited only your own personal opinion. Opinions are cheap. Everybody has one.

It would be as if I said 99% of men DO NOT wash their hands after using the restroom.

And such a claim would be just as void of rigor, if it's a matter of pure opinion, not backed up by any facts or corroboration.
---StrongAxe on 9/22/16


//You can't legitimately fault me for not citing my sources, unless you also cite yours---StrongAxe

CORRECT! But I am NOT making the fact.

I kept saying it's impossible

***How do you know the Biologist are NOT counting birth control pills women take to PREVENT fertilization in the FIRST place?---Nicole9/18/16

***Cite your sources what you claim.--Nicole_Lacey 9/20/16

It would be as if I said 99% of men DO NOT wash their hands after using the restroom.

You have to right to ask me how do I know that without me asking you 'How do you know they do wash their wash? rebuttal.

I am the One who came out with the info as a fact not you.

I'm not in the men's bathroom to monitor men's washing habits.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/22/16




Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: I knew it was IMPOSSIBLE unless they are speaking about Mothers using birth control pills.

And tell me please, just how you KNEW it was impossible? What are YOUR sources? You can't legitimately fault me for not citing my sources, unless you also cite yours.

In all of nature, the birth process is imperfect. Among some other species, the chances of eggs actually resulting in live births is astronomically lower (e.g. insects), without any help from man.
---StrongAxe on 9/22/16


//I quoted:.."Is Heaven Populated Chiefly by the Souls of Embryos?".."Conception: how it works" from USCF Medical Center.---StrongAxe

THNAK YOU. I went to both sources.

One BIG problem.

Both articles DIDN'T CITE their sources

I knew it was IMPOSSIBLE unless they are speaking about Mothers using birth control pills.

Which means that the deaths are not God's fault, but MAN'S FAULT.

All medical journals HAVE to cite their sources when it comes to Researcher support.
Go to American Medical Association online

WebMD: 'Marriage May Help Diabetics Keep Weight Off'

For this simple article they add at the end of the article highlighted in blue 'View Article Sources'
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/22/16


There are two things in the universe: one, non-living things and, two, living things. For God is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. As soon as the egg is fertilized, it is the beginning of life. The mother's womb is its life support until he or she is able to survive on its own. The mother is nourishing each cell from the time of conception. Nutrients are transferred from the mother's blood to each cell of the fetus through the umbilical cord after being filtered through the placenta.
---Steveng on 9/21/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Cite your sources what you claim.
I wrote: I did, in the very first post where I mentioned this fact.
You wrote: No you didn't. I scrolled down and couldn't find one source proving your statement.

You didn't look closely enough. On 9/14/16, I quoted: From uscfhealth: In nature, 50 percent of all fertilized eggs are lost before a woman's missed menses.

google: natural percentage embryo implantation

The first article listed, "Is Heaven Populated Chiefly by the Souls of Embryos?" says 60-80% (depending on when you start counting).

The article I quoted earlier was "Conception: how it works" from USCF Medical Center.
---StrongAxe on 9/21/16


****Nicole_Lacey: Cite your sources what you claim.

//I did, in the very first post where I mentioned this fact.//

No you didn't. I scrolled down and couldn't find one source proving your statement.

You stating a statement doesn't make it a fact.

//I didn't make that up, This was a teaching of the Catholic church for centuries...I quoted it to show that that teaching was wrong. ---StrongAxe on 9/20/16

Cite your sources of the Catholic Church's teachings stating no more relations after one isn't able to have children anymore.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/21/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: You don't know that! Cite your sources what you claim.

I did, in the very first post where I mentioned this fact.

You made that up. Song of Solomon doesn't states that at all.

I didn't make that up, This was a teaching of the Catholic church for centuries. You are right. Song of Solomon doesn't prove this teaching - it refutes it. I quoted it to show that that teaching was wrong.
---StrongAxe on 9/20/16


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//Traditional birth control pills prevent ovulation//

Traditionalalright, that's why they had to make MORE EFFECTIVE birth control pills.

Hormonal contraceptives can also prevent pregnancy by changing the lining of the womb so it's unlikely the FERTILIZED egg will be implanted.--WebMD which isn't the Morning after pill.

//However, without ANY birth control, 50% of fertilized ova fail to implant ANYWAY - this is how God created it.//

You don't know that!

Cite your sources what you claim.

//"sex is for procreation only, and is otherwise a sin" (see Song of Solomon)---StrongAxe

You made that up.

Song of Solomon doesn't states that at all.

Give chapter and verse.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/20/16


Nicole_Lacey:

Traditional birth control pills prevent ovulation, so there is no egg to fertilize, and no child to abort.

"Morning after" pills prevent implantation of vertilized ova. However, without ANY birth control, 50% of fertilized ova fail to implant ANYWAY - this is how God created it.

Before birth control pills, you would see families with an average of 5 kids.

Married couples didn't keep thier pants zipped, even if they already had more kids than they could support - fitting the non-Biblical idea "sex is for procreation only, and is otherwise a sin" (see Song of Solomon). Now, married couples can choose to not have extra children without being forced to live like monks and nuns.
---StrongAxe on 9/20/16


StrongAxe, will you please address the birth control pills as they are the true reasons all those babies are being aborted and NOT God?

Before birth control pills, you would see families with an average of 5 kids.

Now in the West you see 1 to 2 kids per family.

Why do you think it has happened?

Are we drinking contaminated water?

How come the East and the South are not having these low birth rate?

When are you going to stop blaming God for our own sins?

Man created the birth control pill not God.

Man is the villain and killing itself.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/19/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: So how can you claim God aborts anyone if you can't claim to know when life begins?

I was using reductio ad absurdum. I explained it twice. Let me explain it again for the third time.

***IF*** life begins at fertilization ***THEN*** God aborts more children than anyone. This is a CONDITIONAL statement. The absurd conclusion results from the faulty premise, and proves the premise is, on its face, false.

I said 'full' to distinguish lives that have all the rights of human beings, from tissue to which we do not grant such rights (which is a key distinction in pro-vs-anti abortion debates - at what point the latter turns into the former).
---StrongAxe on 9/19/16


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//God aborts more children than everyone else put together//

Again, humans made birth control pills not God.

Birth control pills first tries to stop fertilization, then aborts the baby making the uterine lining inhospitable to a fertilized egg if plan A doesn't work.

So Humans are the ones aborting babies not God.

//"full human life begins at fertilization"//

There is not such thing as a 'full' human life because it suggests there are 'half' human life.

//I honestly have no idea,..I thus object to those who claim they know the exact time.---StrongAxe

So how can you claim God aborts anyone if you can't claim to know when life begins?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/18/16


Jerry6593:

You wrote: You really don't like God much, do you? You are always searching for ways to demean Him.

No, no, no. PLEASE learn reductio ad absurdum.

Let me simplify it into basic logic:

1) *IF* full human life begins at fertilization, *THEN* God aborts more children than everyone else put together, which makes God a worse villain than all other abortionists.
2) God is not a villain
3) Therefore, the assumption "full human life begins at fertilization" must be false.

at what point in your life do you believe that your soul was injected into your body?

I honestly have no idea, and the Bible doesn't say. I thus object to those who claim they know the exact time.
---StrongAxe on 9/18/16


//MOST human embryos do not come to term.//

Again, you or Scientists DON'T know that, but presume those stats.

//(The percentage is much higher for some other species, like fish and insects.)//

Of course because they have hundreds of off-springs at once.

If your teacher gives you a test with only 2 questions and you miss one your grade is 50. F-

If there are 100 questions on the same test and you miss 2 questions your score is 98 which is an A+.

//God, who designed it,..aborts more humans than all other causes combined.---StrongAxe

How do you know the Biologist are NOT counting birth control pills women take to PREVENT fertilization in the FIRST place?

So, is that God's fault, or us HUMANS?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/18/16


Axster: You really don't like God much, do you? You are always searching for ways to demean Him.

I'll bet that you believe that your soul is immortal and only temporarily inhabiting your body, don't you? If so, at what point in your life do you believe that your soul was injected into your body?


---Jerry6593 on 9/17/16


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Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: No, it means we are NOT in the garden of Eden when everything was perfectly designed for us humans.

This does not change the fact that, now, as (presumably) for the majority of human existence on this planet, MOST human embryos do not come to term. (The percentage is much higher for some other species, like fish and insects.) So, if it is true that real human life begins at fertilization, nature (and by implication, God, who designed it, as he knew full well in advance that the Fall would happen) aborts more humans than all other causes combined.
---StrongAxe on 9/16/16


//If 50% of all fertilized embryos fail to implant, and die as a result, BY DESIGN, then who is responsible for that?//Not God

Biologists always change stats as they get wiser.
They also taught us in Nursing school to worry more about a possible stoke (CVA) if the diastolic (lower number) is higher since it represents the resting part of the heart. The systolic blood pressure (top number) represents the working part of the heart.

Guess what? They found out it's the top number with a higher number that causes more stokes

//Is that not "deliberate termination of a human pregnancy"?---StrongAxe

No, it means we are NOT in the garden of Eden when everything was perfectly designed for us humans.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/15/16


Nicole_Lacey:

If 50% of all fertilized embryos fail to implant, and die as a result, BY DESIGN, then who is responsible for that? God designed the reproductive system, KNOWING FULL WELL that half of all embryos would die. Is that not "deliberate termination of a human pregnancy"? If you take a gun with 50 bullets and shoot into a crowd of 100 people, knowing full well that half of them will die, even though you don't know which ones, isn't that deliberate murder? What is the difference?

Why would God CREATE life just to deliberately abort the life He created?

I don't know. Why don't you ask HIM?
---StrongAxe on 9/14/16


I am not personally saying God is the biggest abortionist ever. Those who insist that human life begins at fertilization are the ones who imply it.---StrongAxe on 9/14/16

abortion.

NOUN
1.the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.

Steveng is correct. That is blasphemous.

The key words are 'deliberate termination'.

Why would God CREATE life just to deliberately abort the life He created?

Your explanation of your blasphemous statement is truly reductio ad absurdum.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/14/16


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StrongAxe wrote: "...but then die according to natural law as set out by God. Thus, God is responsible for 50% of all abortions."

You're blaming God for "abortions?" You are the one that needs to re-examine the premise.

God is the God of the living. He doesn't want anyone to die. You are taking your ideas from a worldly organization, uscfhealth, instead of from the bible. These deaths are NOT in God's plan. These deaths are cause by humans - improper diet, smoking, drugs (legal, illegal), pollution (water, air), processed foods, wars, etc.

Besides, "human life begins at fertilization" is not a theory, it's a biblically stated fact.
---Steveng on 9/14/16


Steveng:

I wrote: God is the biggest abortionist ever.

You wrote: That is blasphemous.

I am not personally saying God is the biggest abortionist ever. Those who insist that human life begins at fertilization are the ones who imply it. (reductio ad absurdum again. You should really learn what that is and how it is used.)

From uscfhealth: In nature, 50 percent of all fertilized eggs are lost before a woman's missed menses.

According to the theory "human life begins at fertilization", these lives begin, but then die according to natural law as set out by God. Thus, God is responsible for 50% of all abortions. If you don't like the conclusion, re-examine the premise.
---StrongAxe on 9/14/16


StrongAxe wrote: "God is the biggest abortionist ever."

That is blasphemous.
---Steveng on 9/13/16


Jerry6593:

That means life begins BEFORE conception - in God's mind. Taken to its inevitable conclusion, people who don't marry murder all children they don't have.


Steveng wrote: are you telling me that an adult person on medical life support is not a person?

"A dog is not a person" does not remotely imply "a sick human is not a person". Basic logic, people!

conception (the day the sperm enters the egg).

No, that is "fertilization". "conception" is not a medically rigorous term. It can also mean "implantation". Otherwise, as most fertilized eggs don't implant, God is the biggest abortionist ever.
---StrongAxe on 9/13/16


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Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.



---Jerry6593 on 9/13/16


StrongAxe, so, are you telling me that an adult person on medical life support is not a person?

Nicole_Lacey wrote: "Luke 1:36"

This verse (taken out of context) only shows the length of time up to that point.

Hosea 9:11 tells from the birth, from the womb, and from conception (the day the sperm enters the egg).

Ruth 4:13 the Lord gave her conception (the day the sperm enters the egg).

Life begins at conception. The fetus is continuously learning and growing in the womb from the time a few cells form to full maturity. The mother provides life support until it's ready to be born to live on its own. The mother is feeding each growing cell. The mother is providing oxygen each growing cell.
---Steveng on 9/12/16


//when does it become an "actual person"?//

What? For X-rays a woman is asked if it is possible she is might be pregnant?
If the woman says "No, I am a virgin" it is PROOF she isn't pregnant!

Plus, you all DEMAND an emergency pill TO BE taken HOURS AFTER RAPE or after any SEXUAL contact.

You KNOW WHEN A BABY BECOMES A BABY!

//..but how old was it? The Bible doesn't say--StrongAxe

The Bible does: 6 months Luke 1:36

Remember Tiller provided LATE TERM abortions. 6 months UP to 9 months

Tiller would have been happy to kill John the Baptist the day after he leapt in his mother's womb.

Luke 6:46 Why do you call Me Lord, Lord, but not do WHAT I SAY?

As Jesus said.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/12/16


Steveng:

Yes, but when does it become an "actual person"? The Bible doesn't say. And a dog is also concious and learning for years, yet we don't call it a person. You may have compelling arguments for why you BELIEVE a fetus is a human being, but it is just an opinion, lacking biblical rigor.

Even the fetus of John the Baptist jumped for joy...

Yes, but how old was it? The Bible doesn't say. The best you could get is "life begins before birth", but no clear definition of "how much before birth".


Nicole_Lacey wrote: Luke 6:46

And just WHAT are they not obeying? Chapter and verse.
---StrongAxe on 9/12/16


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StrongAxe wrote: "Since the Bible does not forbid it, it must necessarily be a matter of opinion and interpretation."

Not to change the subject, but Bible does not forbid [abortion]?

The fetus is nothing more than a person on life support until he or she is able to live without it (being born). The mind is collecting information from all five senses whether you notice it or not, even when a person is unconscious or in a coma. The fetus is continuously learning in the womb from the time a few brain cells form to full maturity.

Even the fetus of John the Baptist jumped for joy in Elisabeth 's womb when she heard the salutation of Mary having the fetus of Jesus.
---Steveng on 9/11/16


StrongAxe, Roeder committed a grave sin.

***Tiller was killed during a Sunday morning service at his church, Reformation Lutheran Church, where he was serving as an USHER. (REALLY? COME ON!)

Tiller had previously survived an assassination attempt when a woman shot him in the arms.
Roeder publicly confessed to the killing, telling the AP that he had shot Tiller because "preborn children's lives were in IMMINENT DANGER."- Wikipedia

The reality remains that children are living now because Tiller DIED before he could kill them.

Don't call yourself a Christian Church if you refuse to obey. Luke 6:46

They DON'T have the RIGHT to think abortion is okay.

NO RIGHT AT ALL!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/11/16


Nicole_Lacey:

It is not off-topic to try to steer people back to the topic :)

Such death threats came exclusively from fanatical Christians, and one would not expect Christians to violate God's commandments and commit murder, let alone within the sanctity of a church.

You missed my point. Perhaps his church doesn't consider abortion murder. I am sure your theology differs with his church's on several points.

I am not one claiming abortion is a matter of opinion, but you.

Since the Bible does not forbid it, it must necessarily be a matter of opinion and interpretation.

Earlier: Your theory is 'might is right' which is wrong.

Oops. I misread that as "might be right".
---StrongAxe on 9/11/16


//You believe abortion is wrong, but that is your opinion. There is no scripture that says so, and there are others who believe differently.---StrongAxe on 9/9/16 //

God said:

Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Yours, or any other person's opinion to the contrary is not relevant. Anyone that condones the mass murder of innocent children is not a Christian - he is a monster.

Similarly, Scott Roeder's having set himself up as judge, jury and executioner also violates God's Commandment.


---Jerry6593 on 9/11/16


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//This blog is about Roeder, not Tiller, and not church members//

What? Everyone goes off the blog's topic.

Tiller had protection at his home and work.

It was his Church that left him vulnerable even though they KNEW he had death threats made against him.


//Paul had authority over churches he founded.//

Shouldn't the Pastor at Tiller's Church have the same authority?

//Bible SANCTIONS slavery. If YOU link them, you make killing OK too.--StrongAxe//

No you did. I am not one claiming abortion is a matter of opinion, but you.

//You believe abortion is wrong, but that is your opinion. There is no scripture that says so, and there are others who believe differently.---StrongAxe on 9/9/16
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/10/16


Nicole_Lacey:

StrongAxe, I am talking about the Church Members not Tiller

This blog is about Roeder, not Tiller, and not church members.

Do you believe Paul was wrong?

Paul had authority over churches he founded.

Killing can never be anyone's opinion as owning Slaves (SAME EXCUSE USED).

Bible SANCTIONS slavery. If YOU link them, you make killing OK too.

Your theory is 'might is right' which is wrong.

No. Anything "definitely right" also fits the criterion of "may be right".

doesn't mean you can deny other human beings the same LUXURY.

*I* am not the one denying them. I was adopted. I'm glad my birth mother didn't abort me.
---StrongAxe on 9/10/16


StrongAxe, I am talking about the Church Members not Tiller

If Roeder NEVER killed Tiller, I will STILL be talking about the Church Members.

Do you believe Paul was wrong?

Killing can never be anyone's opinion as owning Slaves (SAME EXCUSE USED).

Your theory is 'might is right' which is wrong.

Just because you made it out of the womb doesn't mean you can deny other human beings the same LUXURY.

Did you know where is the most dangerous place for a Black Americans?

Inside our mother's WOMB!

Rob was asking about some kind of made up stuff about past Popes, Bishops and Priests, as if they were uncountable as relation to Tiller's Church Members.

They are not. They are Excommunicated.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/9/16


Nicole_Lacey:

Roeder was not Paul. He had no authority over that church, nor ANY authority to kill anyone anywhere.

You believe abortion is wrong, but that is your opinion. There is no scripture that says so, and there are others who believe differently. Unfortunately, there are many more issues in life than are addressed in black and white in scripture, for which we have no objective standard for what is wrong. You believe all protestants are wrong, but they disagree.

Why did quote Rob's comment about popes+bishops performing secret rituals, if your excommunication comment wasn't about that? That just made it confusing.
---StrongAxe on 9/9/16


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//It depends on whether or not Tiller's church itself was strongly anti-abortion or not. If it wasn't, they would not have had a reason to kick him out. (Whether such a stance was wrong is a totally different matter.)//

As the Church wasn't against adultery either. So what?

Paul still KICKED him out and SCOLDED the Church for not removing the man.

Understand?

WRONG IS WRONG no matter our opinion or feelings.

//What does that have to do with anything? Rob asked about secret rituals popes+bishops performed.---StrongAxe

My complaint ISN'T about Tiller, but the Church who REFUSED to expel him.

Excommunication is used by the RCC to expel people who REFUSE to OBEY God's Commandments.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/9/16


Nicole_Lacey:

It depends on whether or not Tiller's church itself was strongly anti-abortion or not. If it wasn't, they would not have had a reason to kick him out. (Whether such a stance was wrong is a totally different matter.)

It certainly wouldn't have been appropriate for Paul or a contemporary to walk into the Corinthian church with a sword and stab the offending man.

Ever heard of Excommunication? (in response to Rob)

What does that have to do with anything? Rob asked about secret rituals popes+bishops performed. Excommunication is hardly secret. If you're talking about excommunicating popes over their having secret rituals, when has that ever been done?
---StrongAxe on 9/9/16


StrongAxe, speak about Paul kicking out the man having an affair with his father's wife in 1 Cor 5:1-2

Again, I am saying the Church were WRONG for not kicking out Tiller until he repented!

Paul had to kick him OUT himself even though he wasn't present.

If Paul can get mad at the Church over an affair, I CAN get mad at the Church over slaughtered babies!

//What about popes, cardinals, and bishops---Rob 9/7/16

Ever heard of Excommunication?

Excommunication is an institutional act of religious censure used to deprive, suspend, or LIMIT MEMBERSHIP in a religious community or to RESTRICT certain rights within it, in particular receiving of the sacraments. Some Protestants use the term disfellowship instead.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/8/16


Rob:

You wrote: What about popes, cardinals, and bishops who tried to keep secret they do take part in ninth circle rituals?

What are these "ninth circle rituals" that you speak of?
---StrongAxe on 9/8/16


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What about popes, cardinals, and bishops who tried to keep secret they do take part in ninth circle rituals?
---Rob on 9/7/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Wrong! Jesus did judged both women. ...
John 8:10-11 ... Didnt even one of them CONDEMN you? ... Neither do I.


OK. Replace my word "judge" with "condemn".

If Jesus had the same attitude as Scott Roeder, he would have been the first to throw a stone at the woman caught in adultery - because, unlike the Pharisees, he actually WAS free of sin. But he didn't, and shamed them into not doing so either.
---StrongAxe on 9/8/16


//He never approved of sin, but never judged anyone for it either (e.g. the woman at the well, and the woman taken in adultery).---StrongAxe on 9/7/16

Wrong!
Jesus did judged both women.

He proclaimed them as Sinners, but didn't ALLOW others to Execute sentence because they are Sinners as well.

He told the women not to SIN again.

John 8:10-11
Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, Where are your accusers? Didnt even one of them CONDEMN you?
No, Lord, she said. And Jesus said,
Neither do I. Go and SIN no more.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/7/16


//blood splattered shot to the temple during a church service--larry 1/29/10

The Church members should have EXPELLED Tiller because of his Monday to Friday killing spree for money business.

So the Church CAN'T COMPLAIN to God for what happened.

He was breaking the 5th (6th) Commandment.

If Paul FUSSED at the Corinthians for harboring a man breaking 6th Commandment (7th). What do you think Paul would have said to the Church harboring Tiller???

1 Cor 5:1-2
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is INTOLERABLE EVEN AMONG PAGANS: A man has his fathers wife.. Shouldnt you rather have been stricken with grief and REMOVED from your fellowship the man who did this?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/7/16


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Nicole_Lacey:

Roeder obviously considered Tiller to be his enemy. Remember Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, and love our enemies.

He never approved of sin, but never judged anyone for it either (e.g. the woman at the well, and the woman taken in adultery). He never taught his followers to smite evildoers - that's God's job, not ours (e.g. Ananias and Sapphira).

God doesn't like hyprocrisy

No, he doesn't. And "You're a murderer, so I'm going to murder you for it" is also blatant hypocrisy, is it not?


6 years ago, Scott wrote: Roeder was acting within the law because he was performing a legal act.

I think he meant Tiller, the man Roeder murdered.
---StrongAxe on 9/7/16


How can a murderer be a hero? Point blank blood splattered shot to the temple during a church service, are you kidding?
Roeder took the place of God and was therefore blasphemous.---larry on 1/29/10

You are correct about turning God's House into a blood bath.

I DON'T NOT CONDOLE MURDER.

But isn't it strange that the Church allowed Tiller to be a Member year after year KNOWING that he kills babies and in horrible horrific ways?

The blood bath in the Church is a reflection of the BLOOD BATH the babies endure every Mondays through Fridays right after he praises and thanks God on Sundays for his own life and well being.

God doesn't like hyprocrisy
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/1/16


We need more men of his courage to destroy these filty vermin such as tiller. God bless scott!!! & #128076, & #9757, & #65039, & #128591,
---Julian_Smith on 9/1/16


How can a murderer be a hero? Point blank blood splattered shot to the temple during a church service, are you kidding?

Roeder took the place of God and was therefore blasphemous.
How do we know Tiller wouldn't have had a road to Damascus experience to become a witness for the defenseless he previously murdered? People thought it would never happen with Normal McCorvey aka Jane Roe and look how God turned her around.
Roeder had no right to interfere with God's plan for Tiller's life.
---larry on 1/29/10


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No he's not a hero, even though they are both murderers. We cannot tolerate vigilante justice in this country. However, to those who think Tiller did nothing "wrong" because what he did was "legal", I disagree. Slavery was once legal, but I challenge anyone to tell me it wasn't "wrong."
---Dave on 1/29/10


No, he is not a hero. Who is he, or anyone at that matter, to determine who should live or die?
---Lewis on 1/29/10


I don't think he's a hero and don't agree with what he did. I think both he and Tiller will be judged for what they've done. However, this case highlights to me how sick and schizophrenic our sense of values and right and wrong have become in this country. If Dr. Tiller was going to go kill some two year old come Mon morning, and Roeder had shot him to prevent it, would the dialogue be different? What's more do you think his defense of justification would have been rejected? This is a story of two murderers, but most people think it's a story of one.
---christa on 1/29/10


Killing is wrong. Whether it is a baby, man or woman, they are both guilty. There is only one that will be the ultimate judge and jury. Its a bad thing anyway you look at it.
---Gordon_Jones on 1/29/10


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If the law says abortion is not murder, it's legal homicide. If you have problems with this, so be it. But deal with reality.

Roeder was acting within the law because he was performing a legal act. Sure, this legal act may not comport with your christian views, but your christian views are subordinate to the law.

Christians really need to stop applying their views to legal situations in a country that has a separation of church and state. Roeder did nothing illegal and was killed by a lunatic christian filled with typical self-righteous lunatic justification.
---Scott on 1/29/10


The trouble is that, while most Christians will consider that Mr. Roeder is NOT a Christian...
many unbelievers will conclude that he IS.
---Donna66 on 6/20/09


I haven't heard any one say that Mr. Roeder is a Christian, and he has not been convicted. The major pro life organizations have spoken against this act. It is improbable that the court will acquit for self defense as there was no imminent threat. There is a wide range of opinions on whether manslaughter is ever justifiable, Genesis 9:5-6. However, there is overwhelming evidence (first person testimony) that Mr. Tiller falsified documents, and performed thousands of illegal late term elective abortions, which is murder under Kansas law. As to God, he has worked in many different ways *1, and expects people to act justly, Romans 13:1-8.
*1 Genesis 6:17-18, 14:14-16, 19:13-26, Numbers 26:10, Joshua 6, 7, Judges 7, 2KIngs 7:5-7.
---Glenn on 6/20/09


Scott Roeder is to some Christians what suicide bombers are to some Muslims. The rationale is the same. When Mr. Roeder becomes a Christian hero, it will be the time to convert to Buddhism.
---eric1968 on 6/17/09


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Glenn, if I'm reading you correctly, it appears you believe that Roeder is, in fact, a hero. If this is how you feel, can you share how you feel about him breaking the commandment of thou shalt not kill and him breaking man's laws against murder? Do you think our Father could have intervened and stopped Tiller by other means if this had been His will? Lastly, has Roeder ever said that the Most High told him to do this or is this something Roeder simply did because he wanted his own will done? I apologize in advance for singling you out here, but so far you are the only person I've met of this opinion and I'd like to get a better understanding of your position, if you don't mind. Thanks!
---AlwaysOn on 6/15/09


60,000 abortions! If George had attacked a pregnant teenager in Church, would his killer have then been a hero?
Excerpt from the Reformation Lutheran Church, Wichita, Kansas website. Parenthetical statements are mine.
"The Reformation Lutheran Church family is shocked and deeply saddened by the violent murder of Dr. George Tiller (not babies). We deplore the violence that took place within the walls of our church (not in his clinic). Further, we reject any notion that violence against another human being is an acceptable way to resolve differences over any issue (excepting abortion). In this time of uncertainty, we (don't) stand firm in the promises of Jesus Christ... Lowell Michelson, Kristin Neitzel (pseudo pastors)."
---Glenn on 6/13/09


Thank you all for your replies. I agree with each of you thus far. Roeder is no hero! However, I asked the question because I have heard of Christians hailing him as one. I am curious how they are able to draw such a conclusion as of the Messiah. This case and the reported surge in threats on abortion clinics and clinic staff members across the nation deeply disturbs me.

It is good to see that Christianet bloggers are not jumping on that bandwagon. Let's pray for the rest!
---AlwaysOn on 6/12/09


God doesn't need Roeder's help to discipline Dr. George Tiller. It was pre-meditated murder which of course begins in the heart that is desperately wicked.
And yes Janze is correct in her sobering and disturbing observation that so-called Christians have offered this man support. Ugh, not much of a witness.
Surveys showing many evangelicals strongly supporting torture is also disturbing and suggest many who are just relgious conservatives believe they are christians, i.e. Christ-in-you.
---larry on 6/12/09


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Abortion, Infanticide, taking the law into your own hands = murder. When you murder, you are acting like Satan, NOT God. Satan comes to STEAL (life), KILL (life), and DESTROY (life) - God comes to GIVE life abundantly. This is another subject, but I consider Islam (Muslim) a sect of Satanism - due to them teaching it is "good" to KILL the infadel through sucicide bombings and homocide bombings.
---Leslie on 6/12/09


Scott Roeder is no more of a HERO than Dr. George Tiller. They are both murderers and God will judge them according to their sin,
---Augie on 6/12/09


Scott Roeder stated on television that he has received many messages of support from professed christians across America. And the fact that the questions arose as to whether he is a hero and did he do the will of God must say something disturbing about segments of the society from which he comes.
---Janze on 6/12/09


of course he's NO hero. What he did was as wicked at what Dr. Tiller did. Whoever he was listening to when he commited this crime, it wasn't GOD.
---Donna66 on 6/11/09


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He's a murderer, the law is the law!
---Tommy55 on 6/11/09


Absolutely NOT. Murder is murder. Just because Dr. George Tiller was killing doesn't mean that God wanted Scott Roeder doing that too. Both men will be judged by God for "murder".
---Sag on 6/11/09


Scott Roeder did NOT do the will of God. While what Dr. Tiller did (abortion and infanticide) was murder, what Scott Roeder did was also murder. God does NOT like murder, and commands NOT to murder. The death penlaty is justice, NOT murder. God is okay with justice (since He is just) done by the law, NOT justice taken into our own hands (murder). While God hates and condemns abortion and infanticide, He also hates and condemns killing abortion Dr.s or bombing abortion clinics (ALL of these are murder). It is important NOT to live a double standard on this issue.
---Leslie on 6/11/09


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