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Is Salvation A Process

Is salvation a one time event or a process?

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 ---Dave on 6/13/09
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Your spiritual birth is at the moment you confess that Yahshua/Jesus is Lord,
(No man can confess that Jesus is Lord,
"UNLESS" the Holy Ghost has put it within ones heart to do so), and that is truth...

Baptism has alot to do with it too,
Yahshua seemed to think so, even though he baptised no man with water, he stood by as his D's did it though, there was about 82 of them at that point, it was just before the 70 D's left, and only the 12 that the Lord had picked remained at his side.

It can be, but it REQUIRES growth.

Parable of the Sower(Matt 13)
Are you Fruitful?, should be the Question.
And the answer you give, is your answer.
YLBD
---YLBD on 6/16/09


Kathr,

You wrote: *** Use Colossians 2 as our identification with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection life concerning sin in the past..and sin in the future***

Your identification is not in Christ. His resurrected life is not sinning disobedient life. But your life is full of disobedient and sinning. Don't you see?
---Dave on 6/16/09


Who did Jesus die for and who did Jesus say will enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Jesus answers this questions in Matt. 7:21: "Not everyone who says 'Lord Lord' shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father."

God won't be mocked by those who say 'Lord, Lord' yet still desire to sin. This is why the greatest command is: love the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul, strength...He wants ALL of us.

Those who want to claim salvation yet still desire sin will be judged with unbelievers. Proof:

Rev. 21:8, 22:15, 21:27
Jude 7
Eph 5:5-7
Gal 5:19-21
I Jn 3:4-9
Ezek 18:24
Heb 10:26-31
Lk 12:35-48
I Cor 6:9,10
Mk 7:20-23
Rom 8:12-14, 1:18-32
II Chron 15:2
---Anne on 6/16/09


At this point God birth into this person his holy spirit, which represents a candle light, called the spirit of man, and now this person is born of the spirit as a spirit baby. Dave****


Are you quoting from:?

Proverbs 20:27
The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

This verse is not about the New Birth!


1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


Can you see the folly here? A Total mis-representation of scripture!
---kathr4453 on 6/16/09


We CANNOT live a perfect sinless life. We can sin less every day.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/16/09 (concerning this post)
I did not say I had no sin. I am saved by Christ because I acknowledge I had sin in my life. I used to sin. I used to be a sinner BUT NOW I am a saint! Joint heir with Christ. I am in Christ now and have no desire to sin. Those who walk according to the Spirit will not sin. How do I know this? Christ said so.
AND
Can you say anything more contradictory?
You say-
"We can live sinless every day" but not sinless everyday of our lives?
HUH? (scratching head)Aren't these the same?
---miche3754 on 6/16/09




It says sin shall not enter. Lets get it right. HE came to take sin away. Some dont even know or believe why Christ came.
---duane on 6/16/09


Kathr~ I have never used the terminology "spirit baby"...kathr, what is wrong with you in making all these false assumptions? Kathr, when you accuse someone falsely with no knowledge if it is actually true or not this is spreading false rumors, a form of lying, and deception.

How would you feel if I spread a false rumor about you and said you were a 'Calvinist' because you hold onto a few of the points of Calvinism. You would not appreciate me for doing that would you. That would be very rude and dishonest if I did such a thing.

Please show the same respect toward others, that you wish for yourself. Thank you.
---Anne on 6/16/09


well it is a process! Because we are not going to be perfect in one day!
---kris on 6/16/09


Kath when Dave and Anne are talking about 'Babes in Christ' They are refering to when Paul was addressing the church at Corinth in 1 Cor. 3:1-3.

When we first come to Christ, we are not yet equiped to do battle with the enemy because we don't know the Spiritual things of Christ yet. Just like a new born can't walk or crawl or feed themselves, those new in Christ don't know the Spiritual things of Christ. We learn these as we grow in Christ and study God's word. Then, we are no longer babes or on the milk of God's word. We are able to stand, put on the armor of God and fight the fiery darts of the enemy.
---miche3754 on 6/16/09


**John 3:6 which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit** Both births are similar, one is flesh, other is spirit. Now, salvation begins.
**John 3:3 Jesus answered Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God** Now, he only sees the kingdom.
**John 3:5 Jesus answered Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God** Yet another stage to enter the kingdom.
Read John 14:15-26, this is the process.
**John 14:23 Jesus answered If a man love me, HE WILL KEEP MY WORDS: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make OUR ABODE WITH HIM. John 14:20 AT THAT DAY ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you**
---Dave on 6/16/09




WOW, I cant believe some of this foolish talk in here. I think many here read too many books and never get close to God for instruction. Throw your books away, fast and pray. The Holy Spirit will teach you.
---duane on 6/16/09


MarkV,
You have written: *** Been free from sin doesn't mean you're free from the actuality of it, it means you are free from the penalty of it. You are free from the wages of it.***
God repeatedly says that the wages of sin is death. So, he wants people to mortify the deeds of the flesh that sins, and not commit sins any more so that he will forgive the past sins. Then, we will be free from sins since he has saved us from sins.
You made a statement saying that you will be keep on sinning without the punishment of sins. Are you not the servant of the devil? Even you pervert the word of God, you will never escape the punishment for your sins.
---Dave on 6/16/09


kathr~ Dave and I are not Mormons Anne***


Anne, then please STOP using termonology used by the Mormon faith. Spirit Baby is NOT found in scripture or anything you teach concerning Spirit Baby's. Spirit Baby IS very well known as a Mormon belief.

It's the Spirit of the LIFE OF CHRIST that is in you. HE Quickened you. It's CHRIST In You....

You teach we are independent spirit baby's.

This is wrong.

Anne, IF you want to be taken seriously, stop and think....where does scripture say this or that!
---kathr4453 on 6/16/09


Dave~ Your teachings have been excellent, straight-forward, to the point, and completely logical according to the word of God. It's a blessing to read you sort out the truth from the lies in accordance to God's word. You get rid of all the 'bluff' and it's wonderful.

Miche~ As always, you're right on track, diligent, and ever gracious as well. Thanks for staying so true to the complete message of God's word.
---Anne on 6/16/09


Dave, destroyed the previous sins or forgiven the sin of the believer?

Use Romans 6-8 instead of Ephesians 2.

Use Colossians 2 as our identification with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection life concerning sin in the past..and sin in the future?


ONLY two verses use Grace and Humble concerning a believers PRIDE in himself, ACCUSING others out of their own selfrighteousness!!

James 4:6
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

1 Peter 5:5
Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/09


kathr~ Dave and I are not Mormons. Why do you want to spread rumors and false accusations? This is a form of lying Kathr and deception. Please try and practice more gracious mannerisms, and please ask if someone belongs to a particular denomination before making an assumpion and spreading a false rumor. Thank you.
---Anne on 6/16/09


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Let me quote Anne on 6/13/09: "At the moment when we humbly come before God asking for mercy to forgive us, we sincerely repent of sin by turning from sin and want to follow the Holy Spirit in obeying the Lord and living for Him." At this point God birth into this person his holy spirit, which represents a candle light, called the spirit of man, and now this person is born of the spirit as a spirit baby. Dave****


Did anyone else pick up on this.....only MORMONS say they are spirit babies.


So sorry Dave and Anne, Now I know where the problem is......many of us here on line are NOT Mormons and we do not believe we are Spirit Baby's.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/09


Prodigal Son
Heaven has three portions, New Earth, which is Paradise, New Heaven, and New Jerusalem, which is compared to the bride of Christ. Joint heirs with Jesus have inheritance and they are in New Jerusalem.
We see the parable of Prodigal Son at Luke 15:11-32. Younger son lost his inheritance in wild living. But he repented for sins, LEFT SINS and came to his FATHER NOT TO SIN ANYMORE. Sinning people identify themselves with him. But they are STILL SINNING.
They hate the elder son and try to smear him with dirt. But he DID NOT LOSE HIS INHERITANCE WITH THE FATHER, which is New Jerusalem.
Younger son may progress up. But at this stage he just got New Earth, which is Paradise, as the thief on the cross. So, BE DILIGENT.
---Dave on 6/16/09


A sinner repents with broken heart and contrite spirit, God gives a measure of his holy spirit to guide him. Now he/she is a believer. God gave many commandments, which are laws that lead people towards righteousness. Satan and his people freak out as soon as they see the word law, since they delight in lawlessness. They call the obedience to the law of God as legalism. They threaten people with it. God is not against his own law, but he is against the law of ungodly religious people.
---Dave on 6/16/09


John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ began to preach the gospel and the apostles followed through. They all started with the calling to repent. Repentance is the first step to get into the gospel preached by Jesus Christ.

We are aware of another gospel, which is false gospel, which is being preached by false preachers and it was found by Satan. This false gospel does not require repentance. They say reasons like that apostle John did not talk about it and so we do not need it. However, it is the devil who brings it.
---Dave on 6/16/09


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Miche:

I must agree with MarkV, I believe you might have a misunderstanding about sin. Let me paraphrase 1 John:

1 John 1:6-10 "If we say we abide with God and WALK in darkness, we lie, but if we WALK in the light, we abide with God. However, if we say we have no sin, we LIE and are deceiving ourselves. If we acknowledge our sin, God is faithful and just and forgives our sin, and cleanes us. If we say we have not sinned, we make God a liar, and His word in not in us".

We CANNOT live a perfect sinless life. We can sin less every day.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/16/09


Believer must take caution
Servants of Satan cannot deceive you if they come as servants of Satan. So, they come as servants of God.
They say that it is too hard to obey God and so dont even try for it. They say in a sneaky way that if you obey God he will be angry and if you do not obey God, he will be happy. It does not make sense, yet they have convinced many people with this lie.
They say that it is impossible to live without sinning and so dont even try it. Then they say God will hate you if you try not to sin. They promise that Jesus will carry you to heaven if you keep on sinning.
God warns about Satan and his servants preaching false gospel, another Jesus and another spirit. Believers must reject false teachers.
---Dave on 6/16/09


Yes. The Bible is explicit about this. Read Jesus words in John 3. Repeatedly, He says the one who "believes" in Him has everlasting life. The malefactor on the cross was the last PERFECT example of this grace gift of God, since he did not earn or deserve eternal life, yet he received it. It is faith, and not our morality or even adherence to the hundreds of commandments of scripture. God's will is to follow His commands, yes, but this is for the one who has salvation already, since he follows God's will in appreciation for the FREE gift of salvation, which he ALREADY HAS for eternity.
---David on 6/16/09


Kathr,
Most alcoholics vehemently deny that they are slaves to alcohol. They will keep telling lies until they die as alcoholics. Those who accepte what they are and strived to come out of it become free from alcohol.

God says that those who commit sins are servants to sin. You and your crew not only admit you are sinning, but also promise that you will be sinning until death. Then you all say you are not slaves to sin but free in the spirit. Are you not hopeless SINAHOLICS?
---Dave on 6/16/09


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Kathr,
You wrote: ***You have a strange understanding of GRACE Dave!***

I have written on the posts many times, even to you that we must be humble and obedient to receive grace. From Eph 2:1-5, 10, I have shown that by grace God has destroyed the previous sins of the believers and now they walk in the way of righteousness. And thus God saved them by grace. Dont you have any understanding?
---Dave on 6/16/09


"All things are lawful, but all things aren't expedient. Been free from sin doesn't mean you're free from the actuality of it, it means you are free from the penalty of it. You are free from the wages of it.
---MarkV. on 6/16/09


MarkV, I don't believe this is what Romans 6-8 teaches. ONLY your identification with Jesus death and resurrection life ACTUALLY breakes the POWER of SIN and it's power over us.

Those who are Christs HAVE Crucified the flesh. I AM Crucified with Christ is not our standing judicially..but ACTUALLY.

Judicially when we are JUSTIFIED by His Blood we are free from the penalty of God's Wrath.

We are saved by His RISEN Life. Resurrection life comes ONLY out of DEATH!!!

---kathr4453 on 6/16/09


And if you do you don't desire to sin. You fall by mistake.- markv.

No markv, I desire to do the will of my father- GOD.
Im in Christ and being conformed to Christ daily. I have no desire at all to sin. WHY? Because I want to have eternal life with Christ. I don't want to go to hell.
I already know what my will got me- damnation. I don't want that anymore.
I know God has ALL good things for me. I desire the eternal life God has for me because I know he loves me. The things here are going to pass away. I desire what God chooses to give me in this life and the promise of eternal after it as long as Im in Christ.
So why would I desire to go against that?
Do you desire to sin? I hope not. Because sin seperates us from God.
---miche3754 on 6/16/09


Kathr,
You wrote: *** THIS is what scripture teaches. My stinking sinful old man DIED with Christ.***

You and your crew do not obey God and you openly proclaim it. You are still sinning and promise to continue until you all die. Then at the same time you are telling which I have quoted above *** My stinking sinful old man DIED with Christ*** No, it did not die. It is a total lie and deception. If it died you will not be sinning any more. Are you a confused person? Dont make confusing statements to lead others to deception.
---Dave on 6/16/09


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Kathr,
You refer Romans 6:6-7, and Col 3:1-4, to yourself. Do you have any sense?

Does it make any sense when you say that you are free from sinning and committing sins at the same time? The verse talks about people who are with Jesus being dead to sin. You are alive to sinning. Why do you lie to yourself and others that your sinning person is dead? Are you confused?
---Dave on 6/16/09


**Grace is the power of God given to a humble obedient believer and grace will destroy sin.Dave***


You have a strange understanding of GRACE Dave!

Dave JESUS CHRIST and our baptism into His death destroys the power of SIN. WHO will deliver me from the body of this death...I thank God through JESUS CHRIST!!!

Romans 6:6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Now compare Colossians 3:1-4.

THIS is what scripture teaches. My stinking sinful old man DIED with Christ.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/09


Miche, 2: You see when someone speaks bad about me, they have a desire to do that. They cannot wait for the next day to chastise me so that others can read. Their desire is the cause of their actions. As I am answering you, I also desire to do that. I want to make sure that my desire is for the Truth only because anything not of faith is sin.
Christians are free from the consequences of Sin. Christian freedom has to do with finding the Truth in Jesus Christ and being liberated. "All things are lawful, but all things aren't expedient. Been free from sin doesn't mean you're free from the actuality of it, it means you are free from the penalty of it. You are free from the wages of it.
---MarkV. on 6/16/09


Kathr:

You are correct, many here use Scripture and draw incorrect conclusions. However, it is difficult to discuss deep thought in 125 words. Also, certain correct Biblical doctrines just are not believed by many people today. Divine healing is an example of one.

I am going to start some new blogs that deal with your subjects, Grace, the cross, the blood of Jesus, etc. to draw us away from these seminary arguments. Have patience and stand firm.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/16/09


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We have to harmonize all scripture so it all comes to agreement. There are a great many scripture that teaches a Christian no longer sins willfully after salvation. These scripture give evidence that a child of God no longer partakes in sin, for the Holy Spirit of God is living in them. If he does willfully return to these sins the results are separation from God and he does not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, but gets judged with the unbelievers. Some scripture explaining this:

Rev. 21:8, 22:15, 21:27
Jude 7
Eph 5:5-7
Gal 5:19-21
I Jn 3:4-9
Ezek 18:24
Heb 10:26-31
Lk 12:35-48
I Cor 6:9-10
Mk. 7:20-23
Rom 8:12-14, 1:18-32
II Chron 15:2
---Anne on 6/16/09


Who are we to say which sins Christ didnt die for?? LETS NOT ADD TO SCRIPTURE.. The sin of the world is unbelief in HIM.
What must a man do to have eternal life?
Believe on HIM who HE has sent.
---duane on 6/16/09


Markv, that is what you just don't comprehend and understand about Christ saving you.
I was a sinner. In my PAST I had sin. NOW I am washed clean.
As long as I walk in Christ NO, I don't sin.
That is what Paul said. For us to walk in Christ and NOT FULFILL the lusts of the flesh.
Michael, I am in complete agreement. That is HOW Christ keeps us from sinning. He writes the Laws he was able to keep on our hearts and minds and helps us to fulfill them THROUGH HIM so we do not sin.
---miche3754 on 6/16/09


MarkV~ Miche has said many times that she feeds to the Spirit not the flesh, she puts on the armor of God each day and takes up her cross each day. You can read from her posts that she is obviously one who displays the fruits of the Spirit and not the flesh. As a true born-again Christian, she and other born-again Christians do not willfully sin, for we obey, fear, and love God and live in the Spirit. We know if we do willfully sin that we will be judged with the unbelievers. This is read repeatedly throughout the Bible. (I wrote a list of scripture on another post you can refer to for this.)

Remember, those who feed to the Spirit will reap eternal life, but those who feed to the flesh will reap destruction.
---Anne on 6/16/09


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Dave~ Excellent teachings here! Thanks for sorting out the truth from the deception. God bless.
---Anne on 6/16/09


Miche 2: You see when someone speaks bad about me, they have a desire to do that. They cannot wait for the next day to chastise me so that others can read. Their desire is the cause of their actions. As I am answering you, I also desire to do that. I want to make sure that my desire is for the Truth only because anything not of faith is sin.
Christians are free from the consequences of Sin. Christian freedom has to do with finding the Truth in Jesus Christ and being liberated. "All things are lawful, but all things aren't expedient. Been free from sin doesn't mean you're free from the actuality of it, it means you are free from the penalty of it. You are free from the wages of it.
---MarkV. on 6/16/09


I believe 100% that the enemy is out to steal, kill and destroy and Christian he can find.
We can unknowingly sin by believing his wiles. Especially when he comes before as and angel of light. This is that other side that you asked about.
This is WHY we need the WHOLE word of God in us. To resist the fiery darts of him who would do this to us.
If we fall prey to him, We must get back up and repent, Christ says that he is our advocate to the Father and forgive it.
But those that think they are under the blood and still intentionally sin just by even lying and that they are covered and don't have to repent are telling themselves lies.
---miche3754 on 6/16/09


Miche, I guess what you saying is that you don't sin. And if you do you don't desire to sin. You fall by mistake. And only when you fall by mistake you are forgiven. I am sorry to say that the reason you fall, is not by mistake. You fall because you desired to sin. You gave in to the temptation. We act by our desires. When a believer speaks bad about another brother, it is because they could not help following their desire. Everyone in the world falls short of the glory of God. There is so much sin in our flesh that not a moment goes on when we don't sin.
In fact genuine believers see sin more clearly and the longer you are a Christain the more sin you see in yourself because you are learning about yourself through the Word.
---MarkV. on 6/16/09


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Christ is just to forgive those who fell by mistake, not those who still follow after these sinful desires in the first place and still claim they are under the blood---miche3754 on 6/15/09
Agreed. I ask all next questions in ernest.
This is where the OSAS side says that a person wasn't saved to begin with.
On the other side, it is said that a person can fall into this state at any time after they have been saved. Is this correct?
Is there an acronym for the other side?
When you say 'By this I mean fulfilling ANY fleshy desires that are AGAINST God', does the 10 commandments cover this statement sufficeintly or do you think when Jesus summed up all the law and the prophets would be a better foundation for this statement?
---MIchael on 6/16/09


Let me quote Anne on 6/13/09: "At the moment when we humbly come before God asking for mercy to forgive us, we sincerely repent of sin by turning from sin and want to follow the Holy Spirit in obeying the Lord and living for Him." At this point God birth into this person his holy spirit, which represents a candle light, called the spirit of man, and now this person is born of the spirit as a spirit baby.
Yet the soul person has a choice either to obey the leading of this spirit or obey the craving of the flesh. If the person obeys the spirit, he/she will be a spiritual person and he/she will grow in the Lord.
---Dave on 6/16/09


MarkV,
In reply to your rebuttal for my post on 6-15/09.

I repeat the points. Romans 6:17 says they obeyed God. Ephesians 2:2-3 says they stopped obeying the world and devil. That is, they stopped sinning. God says they are saved. That is, salvation is completed.

I like to tell you one thing. You love to disobey God and to sin. You promote others to do that. "Eph 2:2 ...., according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 ... and were by nature the children of wrath."

According to verse 2, Satan works on you.

According to verse 3, God's wrath is upon your head.

Stop playing games with God. Repent.
---Dave on 6/15/09


You believe and preach that sinning people will inherit the kingdom of God. But you quoted a verse to show that sinning people has no inheritance in the kingdom of God. It is very funny.

In Eph 2:2-3 we see they stopped sinning, in verse 5 God declares that they are saved. That is, their salvation is completed.

Again it is funny, you wrote that 1 John 1:8 to 2:2 is against me. No, but God is against you. It is you who is a disobedient sinning rebel. "Eph 2:3 ... by nature the children of wrath. 2Thes 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that OBEY NOT the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
---Dave on 6/15/09


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Born again people will receive the spirit in measures. Then they receive grace for grace. Many people say that grace will cover their sins and take sinning persons to heaven. But, grace is not a plastic bag to cover the dead stinking flesh so that the smell won't spread in heaven. Grace is the power of God given to a humble obedient believer and grace will destroy sin. And God will destroy the works of the devil. If a sinning person be obedient to God, he raise him/her from the sin of death to the life of righteousness. This is the salvation by God. It is a process starts at repentance and completed when God destroy the works of the devil in him/her.
---Dave on 6/15/09


Markv,
Those Spiritually alive DO NOT SIN ANYMORE.
By this I mean fulfilling ANY fleshy desires that are AGAINST God.
The Spirit of Christ fulfills this in you and gives you a heart to do the righteousness of God.
If you are a Christian that is still running after fleshly desires that are not of God(adultery, fornication, etc)
Then you are not of God.
Christ is just to forgive those who fell by mistake, not those who still follow after these sinful desires in the first place and still claim they are under the blood. This is making a continuous sacrifie of Christ and it is not acceptable.
---miche3754 on 6/15/09


Dave, you also were doing so well until you added the last sentence. You gave Eph. 2:5,8. And no where does it say what you said,
" Eph 2:5,8 says that now they are saved. Salvation started with obeying and completed by stop sinning."
In fact it doesn't mention that to complete your salvation you have to stop sinning. I couldn't find it. "For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God"
There is nothing mentioning that salvation started and completed by stop sinning. You want it to say that but 1 John 1:8-1 John 2:2 speaks against you.
---MarkV. on 6/15/09


Hello Mark E. thanks for coming on. I don't see a problem as to who is a genuine believer. Why is it so hard to distinquish? I figured you would know. The genuine believer one who is born of the Spirit, and the one who is "Spiritually dead" is the Lost.
The one that is born again receives the endwelling of the Holy Spirit and the gifts necessay for him to see, hear and a new heart to preceive and a wonderful promise gift of Salvation. The one dead receives nothing. He is a child of wrath, and until he is born of the Spirit he will remain the same heading in the direction he was alway on.
Jesus said, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water"
---MarkV. on 6/15/09


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A born again believer will do specifically a few things. Romans 6:17 says that they will obey from the heart the doctrine of God which was given to them. Ephesians 2:2,10 say that they neither walk according to the course of this world, nor according to the prince of the power of the air, who is Satan. But they walk in the path of righteousness. Eph 2:3 says that they do not live in the lust of the flesh and of the mind. Eph 2:5,8 says that now they are saved. Salvation started with obeying and completed by stop sinning.
---Dave on 6/15/09


A flesh person can be born again as a spirit child. Salvation process starts at this event. This child grows and serves God. As the spirit grows enough, he mortifies the sinning deeds of the flesh. Then, God will adopt him as his son to inherit his kingdom with Jesus Christ. Please read Romans 8:13 to 17. At 17, believers graduate the salvation process.

Romans 8:17 if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ,
---Dave on 6/15/09


Both. It depends on what part of salvation you are talking about. If it's my being born again, well that's a one time happening, it's instant. But if you are talking about salvation from day to day from my enemies and from my flesh then I would say it's a process that I have to work out day by day.
---john on 6/15/09


Its like someone quoting "Judas went out and hanged himself" and then finding another verse that says "go thou and do likewise" and putting them together to prove that suicide is biblical. We all would instantly recognize that as being ludicrous.

But because so many here want the Lawyers verses to be true, many people arent recognizing the similar mis-use of scripture.

Anyone can find any verse to support their belief. We are called to RIGHTLY divide the word of truth, not snatch verses out of context.

Not a single Lawyer HERE uses ANY scripture concerning Grace, the Cross, The Blood, or addresses the finished work of Christ, in any way CORRECTLY?
---kathr4453 on 6/15/09


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Born again children are expected to grow in the spirit. They are to grow from milk to meat. If not the Holy Spirit rebukes them. "1Cor 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. Hebrew 5:12 ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God, and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat."
---Dave on 6/15/09


The process of salvation starts with a new birth as a spirit baby. The baby grows by drinking pure milk which is every word from God. God gives the baby grace upon grace and the Holy Spirit measure upon measure. The caution is that the devil will be trying to feed poison by twisting the word of God so that the baby may not obey God and die. The devil give counterfeit grace, another spirit, and another gospel. If the baby loves God, he/she will obey God and God will protect the baby. If the baby loves to sin, he/she will obey the devil and will not obey God. Nobody can love God and Sin at the same time.
---Dave on 6/15/09


When a person is just born again, he/she has the spirit compared to a candle that can be quenched. The caution is not to quench this spirit. This spirit is not the Holy Ghost who will come and abide in us at the graduation of the Salvation Process.

"1Thes 5:19 Quench not the Spirit. 2Peter 1:19 ...ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts."

But, Satan calls the caution and the commandments of God as legalism as if it is barbaric or paganism. Those who love God will delights in his laws. Satan and his people hate it.
---Dave on 6/15/09


Mima,Repentance is totally from God. HE gives us a total change of mind when HE saves us.I can tell you this because it happened to me. I didnt read it in the bible before it happened. I dont know why there is so much confusion on repentance. After God given repentance, we only want to serve HIM in truth. We dont want to or cant remain the same ol sinner that we were. We are now led by the Spirit.All we need to do is accept HIM and what HE did IN FAITH upon hearing the Gospel and HE will do the rest.
---duane on 6/15/09


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MarkV~ In James 1:12-16 James speaks to the 'beloved brethren'(v16).

Now, James tells the beloved brethren this summary in vs 14-16:

1. Each person is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
2. Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin.
3. And sin, when it is full-grown brings forth death
4. Do not be deceived my beloved brethren.

James is doing the brethren a most wonderful favor in explaining to them the dangers of temptation leading to sin for:

1. Sin separates us from God for sin is of the devil. (He does not 'know those' in sin)
2. We can't serve sin and God both/ we can't have 2 masters.


Only those who ENDURE temptation receive the crown of life.(v12)
---Anne on 6/15/09


Matthew 7:14
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it

It is both.
Christ shed his blood one time for us. He was and is the only perfect sacrifice. None other is needed.
Once we accept him into our hearts, this is a road we must travel. We must grow and as we grow in Christ(He increases in us as we decrease) He helps us to stay on the straight and narrow path.
This scripture from Christ says there will be few that find it. It is not easy to die to self daily. But to be with him forever, we must take on his death so that he can live in us. This way when the end comes, God recognizez his son in us and we are saved from death.
---miche3754 on 6/15/09


Mark Eaton~ Thank you for your post and it sounds like your heart goes out to new converts as mine does too.

I am 100% in agreement with you that we must not only teach new converts to hold fast, stand firm, and work out their salvation, but ALSO people who have known the way of salvation for many many years can be just as susceptible to die spiritually if they don't endure temptation.

I always think of Solomon....
A man of vast wisdom who loved God for decades.
Yet he became tempted and did not endure temptation but fell into sin and God was no longer Solomon's master, but rather sin was.

Solomon did not return to God, but many who lost salvation wonderfully do return.
---Anne on 6/15/09


Cont:As far as repenting of sin? A lost person cant turn from sinning or be sorrowful enough to be saved. We are told to turn to Christ for life for HE is the only ONE who can set you free from sin.Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness. Do Christians turn from sin? Of course! BUT only through Christ. By ourselves we are dead. In HIM we have life.
---duane on 6/15/09


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Mima~ If we don't repent and turn from sin in all sincerity and genuineness, then sin is still our master and sin in still what we serve.

However if we DO repent of sin and turn from our wickedness and turn to God so that God is in control of our lives and leading our lives, then God is our master.

We can't serve God and sin both, for we will either love one and hate the other.

Now some think they are saved while they still continue in sin. These are not truly saved for they have come up with their own salvation plan that is not in accordance with God's word. For remember Jesus said: "Not all who say 'Lord Lord' shall enter heaven, but he who does the will of My Father."
---Anne on 6/15/09


The answer is both.

We are saved by Grace the moment we are Born Again. At that point in time we are like New Born babes who had never sinned. The theological term for this is Justification. At that point we are saved.

But then we are to live saved. If we are saved then we are no longer under sin. We are to follow JESUS. We must die daily that is something that happens every day that is sanctification. Or become the saint GOD wants us to be.

Then when JESUS comes and we go to Heaven we are Glorifed. Glorification.
---Samuel on 6/15/09


Anne, you place passages that have nothing to do with a person been born again and losing salvation. The discription presented in Luke 15:25-32 is that, "all that I have is yours" The inheritance had already been distributed v.12 Everything the father had was literally in the elder Son's possession. Yet the elder son was begudging even the love the father showed to the prodigal son. The Pharisees and Scribes had easy access to all the riches of God's Truth. They spent their lives dealing with Scripture and public worship-but they never really possessed any of the treasures enjoyed by the repented sinner. The pridigal son was the repented sinner.
In Romans 8:13, Genuine believers live by the Spirit,
---MarkV. on 6/15/09


MarkV:

Please show me a scripture that supports your definition of a "true" believer. While I believe as you do that "true" believers will not fall away, there is no hard and fast definition of a "true" believer in the Bible. All we have are the fruits, the works, the deeds of a person to discern by. Until we can discern by them we MUST teach new converts to hold fast, stand firm, work out their salvation.

The whole point of this blog is there seems to be two paths. One is immediate the other is a lifetime. But I must point out that according to the Parable of the Sower, three of the seeds grow but only one finally bears fruit. So some will "apparently" fall away.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/15/09


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Anne 2: verse 9 clearly says that genuine believers live by the Spirit, "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you" Genuine believers live by faith through the power of the Holy Spirit if the Spirit dwells in them. James 1:14,15 is indentifying who are the one's that belong to God. Verse 12, Blessed is the man who endures temptation, for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised "to those who love Him" They receive the crown of life which the Lord promised to those who love Him" only genuine believers have a true love for Christ. and "Of His own will He brought us forth by the Word of Truth"
---MarkV. on 6/15/09


Anne I invite you to show me where the woman at the well ever repented? I believe she was converted, but I fail to find where she repented. I believe in repentance but not the kind of repentance you believe in. You believe repentance is turning of sin and never doing it again, both you and I know that's an impossibility, now I believe repentance involves genuine sorrow.
The definition of repentance is really a major hangup point in Christianity.
---mima on 6/15/09


Anne, it is not necessary to write your quotes two or three times. We can read the first one. As to your writings you are perfectly right on all six comments that indentfy a genuine believer.
You are wrong on you last comment: There is no conditions for God giving you salvation. Faith is the only thing required. Saving faith and that comes from God.
Remaining with Christ is not a condition, but evidence that you are a genuine believer. All genuine believers remain with God.
---MarkV. on 6/15/09


A person who was once saved, but returns back to sin does not become "unborn", but it is possible for a once saved person to die spiritually. (Lk 15:25,32, Rom 8:13, Jam. 1:14,15 etc.)

James describes the sinning process that can lead to the spiritual death of the righteous. (James 1:14-16):

"but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, is dragged away and enticed. Then after desire conceives, it gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is full grown, gives birth to death. Don't be deceived my dear brothers."

James alerts to guard against sin. He also teaches us to help those who stray back to sin and die spiritually to lead them back to God if they'll repent/return to God. (James 5:19-21)

---Anne on 6/14/09


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Mima,
It is you that suggested that John and Jesus taught 'legalism' by your comment at the start of the blog.
"And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." Repentance requires that the Spirit that was in the Pharisees and Sadducees be done away with. Those without that Spirit said to John, "What shall we do then?". What was the very first thing Paul said to Jesus rightaway that He revealed himself to him? It was, "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?". That way of 'doing' marks and defines the lifelong walk of a Christian.
---Nana on 6/14/09


Mima~ What did you mean when you told Nana that perhaps he equates repentance with salvation. Mima, repentance is a necessary part of salvation. If one does not repent, then one is not saved. If we don't turn from our sin and stop walking in ways of sin darkness we can 'say' we are saved, but we are not a saved child of God. (Read the book of I John for a very clear understanding of this.) Perhaps I did not understand what you were implying, but I hope you understand that repentance is a necessary part of salvation.
---Anne on 6/14/09


Frances~ Hi! I was just thinking about you while I was cooking supper since I had not seen you on here for awhile. Then I come on here and see you are back. That is good, and hope your are doing well. By the way, that was a great post you just put down.
---Anne on 6/14/09


Salvation by definition is a process. To be save or salvation is to be made whole, to be delivered, to have peace and victory.It's even means to Prosper. These things are a process and take time. However, the salvation of our soul is right on. The Lord says, whoever beleive in his heart and confess with his mouth the Lord Jesus, is saved. That is right now. We are born again because of our acceptance of Christ Jesus.
---Pastor_Ernest_Sye on 6/14/09


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Salvation is an action that took place on Calvary when Jesus offered up His body on the cross, willingly, and knowing that His Father would take Him to Himself, eventually to put all of His enemies under His feet. Jesus earned the right to become the Judge of all mankind. He judges by our actions not our words or thoughts. We have to be obedient to show that we are His. If we serve the devil, no matter how many Salvation prayers we have said, they are meaningless, and we will go to Hell, IMHO. Not being interested in the truth is one way of going to Hell because we are deceived easily if we do not know the truth. People are afraid to seek the truth.
---frances008 on 6/14/09


Those who belong to the Lord:

There are specific identifying traits in the life of any person who has been regenerated by the Spirit of God and cleansed by the blood of the Lamb:

1. Bothered by wickedness (II Pet 2:7-8)

2. Ashamed of past life of sin. (Rom 6:21)

3. Obedience to God and good works in general (Lk 8:21, Jam. 2:14)

4. Separation from the World (I Pet 4:4, II Cor 6:17,18)

5. Freedom from sin's bondage (Rom 6:16-18) "Do you not know that you are that one's slave to whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?"

6. Persecuted for godly living (II Tim 3:12)

Salvation is conditional upon remaining in the Son. (I Jn. 2:24-25)
---Anne on 6/14/09


Those who belong to the Lord:

There are specific identifying traits in the life of any person who has been regenerated by the Spirit of God and cleansed by the blood of the Lamb:

1. Bothered by wickedness (II Pet 2:7-8)

2. Ashamed of past life of sin. (Rom 6:21)

3. Obedience/good works in general (Lk 8:21, Jam. 2:14)

4. Separation from the World (I Pet 4:4, II Cor 6:17,18)

5. Freedom from sin's bondage (Rom 6:16-18) "Do you not know that you are that one's slave to whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?"

6. Persecuted for godly living (II Tim 3:12)

7. Repent of sin as evidenced they do not walk in sin/darkness but Light. (I John)
---Anne on 6/14/09


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