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Sheep Of Another Flock

When Jesus is praying the night before his death, He first prays for the Apostles, then He prays for those of another flock. Most Christians believe they belong to the first group, if so then who are the people of the other flock?

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 ---Judy on 6/16/09
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Jews rejected The Gospel of Christ, So then He came brought it to us gentiles, the other flock
*****

unsupported by Holy Scripture

believing antichrist rapture theory GIVEN by men OPENS door to much false teaching

The Jews (which ones?) seeing Christ was a Jew and HIS 12 Disciples were Jew

Peter commissioned to bring gospel of the Kingdom of God to the Jew and where does it say ALL rejected?
believing messenger Christ is a gospel of more importance then HIS MESSAGE of the gospel of The Kingdom of God is what leads most to follow every fairy tale of MAN

there is no "other flock" LEST you promote the LIE that Christ is divided - ONLY ONE FLOCK the called out ones who are the SPIRITUAL Church
---Rhonda on 8/7/10


The Jews rejected The Gospel of Christ, So then He came brought it to us gentiles, the other flock.

Aft the rapture, the door will be closed to the gentiles & then He will return to His First chosen, the Jewish people.
---Lawrence on 8/7/10


The tribes of Israel who had been taken captive & later migrated.
---Betty on 6/19/09


***Kathr 2: Only those that can hear God belong to God. When a person is brought to life by the quickening of the Spirit, only then can he hear God. Only those who believe by faith are His sheep. MarkV.***

You are correct...no one can hear God....that's why He sent His Son into the world, to reconcile us to God. In the OT, Angels were messengers FROM God...Today, His Son has spoken to us. Hebrews 1!!!

TRINITY!!! Markv, the Holy Spirit did not die on the Cross, nor did the Father.

The HOLY Spirit anoints the preaching of the Gospel pointing to Jesus who then BRINGS us to the Father. No one can come to the Father except through His Son.

YOU hear God the Father BECAUSE you received FIRST His Son BY FAITH!!!
---kathr4453 on 6/19/09


Dan1724, Exactly, Paul carried the Gospel to the Gentiles. All the Apostles carried the Gospel to a lost and dying world, both Jew and Gentile. For God so loved the World ( consisting of Jew and Gentile). It doesn't say God so loved Israel or God so loved His Elect...it says GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD!

Those who are saved become ONE in Christ With God....we are not longer Jew or Gentile, but ONE New Man.
---kathr4453 on 6/18/09




Mark_ Eaton , PERFECT!.

Jesus is praying here for the Church..His Body. The I in them and thou in me is referring to the Body of Christ, AKA The Church, who are taken OUT of this world.

This is why Jesus does not pray for the world. He's praying for His Church here. Those who hear the Gospel and believe, receiving Jesus Christ as their savior, through the preaching of the Gospel (WE PREACH..and through our word we continue to carry the Good News to the world) become ONE with God in Christ are no longer (** Colossians 3:1-4) of this world. We are translated out of this present evil age Spiritually seated with Christ in Heavenly Places IN CHRIST.

our commission here is to bring the Good News to others!
---kathr4453 on 6/18/09


Mark E. I believed I answered as you did after reading what you wrote. The apostles and all those after who heard the words of the apostles who believed.
"Judy, there is no other flock that Jesus is praying for. He is praying for the Apostles and all those who will come to Christ by the words of those whom the Father has given to Him.

"I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word." John 17:20"

If Kathr had read the whole context from Verse 6-19 she would know that the whole context is about the Disciples and those who later would hear the words and came to believe. There was no reason to argue and say someone is twisting anything.
---MarkV. on 6/17/09


The reference to another flock can be found in John 10:16 'I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.'

There is no explanation for the meaning of these words like there is for many others. So it must be for us to understand only that there may be other followers somewhere. The "where" must not be a concern for us.
---Dan1724 on 6/18/09


Kathr is correct.

There are two distinct groups of people Jesus is praying for in John 17:20: "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word,".

First group is the "these alone" in the verse. They are the disciples who Jesus has been praying for.

Second group is the "those also who believe in Me through their word". Because there are multiple references in this section alone, we must separate the "those" and the "their". The "their word" refers back to the disciples and the "those" refer to believers coming after the disciples. This would include US, because we only know of Jesus because of their writings.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/17/09


Judy, most Christians do think they are the first group. They are wrong.
The Apostles are Jewish. The Jewish people are the first group not Christians.

Matthew 15:21-28

V 24,26-28 "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel....It is not right to take the food of the children and throw it to the dogs." She said, Please, Lord, for even the dogs eat the scraps that fall from the table of their masters....
"O woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish."

Sheeps are in flocks.
Jesus is our Master.

Jewish and Genitles are the 2 flocks.
Christians are Genitles in Jewish's eyes.

Acts 46-49 Paul and Barnabas are clear on this fact.
---Valerie on 6/17/09




I have heard some of the UFO buffs claim that this refers to beings or life on other planets.

More likely, I have heard some theologians say that not of this flock this refers to non-Jewish people and that His flock refers to the Jews.
---obewan on 6/17/09


"For I have given the words which You have given Me, and they hae received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You, and they have believed that You sent Me. "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours, and yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them." John 17:8.
MarkV. on 6/17/09

MarkV, these verses you just quoted belong to the beginning of John 17, when Jesus is praying for the Apostles. NO SUCH verses come AFTER John17:20. Therefore you are TWISTING the whole chapter and trying to place these verses AFTER John 20...to mean what? Everyone is an Apostle who God gave Jesus? Well, if that's true, it's the JOB of the Apostles to PREACH the Gospel.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/09


Maybe they are the persecuted saints or the 144,000? I am not a theologian or anything but its just a maybe.
---tonne on 6/17/09


"I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word." John 17:20.

Yes, it's verse 20, and not 24 I was referring to.

Well, the 12 Apostles are not with us today are they...so what are we to do! Oh my. Only those then who heard the Gospel through the 12 Apostles only are actually saved. How silly is that.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/09


Judy, there is no other flock that Jesus is praying for. He is praying for the Apostles and all those who will come to Christ by the words of those whom the Father has given to Him. "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word." John 17:20.
Those there, and those who will later come to Christ through the Word. "For I have given the words which You have given Me, and they hae received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You, and they have believed that You sent Me. "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours, and yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them." John 17:8.
---MarkV. on 6/17/09


Judy, John 17, Jesus is praying for the Apostles and makes that destinction when He said He lost one..Judas that the scriptures would be fulfilled.

In verse, I believe 17:24, He prays Not only these, but those who believe on Me through their words. which is The Gospel taken to the whole world

It is most unfortunate a certain doctrine fails to see verse 24, and thinks THEY are elect because they see themselves as the Apostles. God GAVE Jesus the 12 based on the fact they believed Jesus as Messiah...not the Gospel of salvation ( based solely on Jesus death and resurrection)....BECAUSE the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ they didn't FULLY comprehend while with Him, and not until He rose from the dead.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/09


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I believe Jesus praying for "another flock" references the Old Testament Saints. Those who were at that time in Abraham's bosom. I do not know how I arrived at this belief but I do remember having discussions about it.
---mima on 6/17/09


I'm sorry. I can't find the reference you are talking about. Can you give me the verses so that I may study this?
---MIchael on 6/17/09


Did Jesus pray for His disciples, or for the apostles?
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/16/09


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