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How Does Christ Fulfill The Law

What does it mean to "fulfill" the Law? How does one fulfill "Thou shalt not kill?"

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 ---jerry6593 on 6/20/09
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Mark: Apparently you missed this, so I'll post it again:

If you'd care to check below, I never mentioned the Sabbath. I have also spoken on these blogs against murder, adultery, lying, etc. It must be the Holy Spirit pricking your conscience, 'cause it wasn't me.

Just curious, but do you believe (like Lee) that there is only one Commandment still in force, or do you vote for nine? And relatedly, can you point to a single scripture that justifies the abrogation of God's Law in the transition from the Old Covenant to the New?
---jerry6593 on 7/2/09


Anne, you talk about other peoples sins, and you still sin. Don't your sins mean anything? Or, do you sin less then someone else, so you are exempt? What I find is that you more then any other commit one of the worst sins. You continue to teach sinlessness, calling God a liar. And you throw that at others when you are as filfy as the rest of us in the flesh.

If anyone is watering down the gospel it is you when you add the acts of man to salvation. Because nothing you do can contribute to your salvation. You should thank God for His goodness. I don't know if you are still on the road to hell, but if you have the wrong gospel, there is no salvation.
---MarkV. on 7/2/09


Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world. But His blood will not cover the sins of those who say they believe yet continue to willfully sin, for they make a mockery of His sacrifice and receive God's vengeance...Anne***'


Anne, You keep stating this but you fail to see something GRACE teaches.

Yes the Blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin, it also justifies us once and for all..

However, the Blood of Jesus dies not put the old man( where sin abides) to death. Therefore the blood does not wash away the old man...the CROSS and our identification with Jesus death does.

When I say you negate the cross, I really mean you NEGLECT the doctrine of the Cross.

Paul preached the CROSS...ALL of it!
---kathr4453 on 7/2/09


Mark_Eaton,

2 Timothy 2:19-22: "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart."

Think is ok to be a garbage can?
---Nana on 7/2/09


Nana~ You're correct, our right standing with God can be revoked or changed, by the choices we make in our life to continue to endure in the Lord, or turn from the Lord.

James 1:12-16 warns the beloved brethren (children of God) of this very thing:

1. Each person is tempted when he is drawn by his own desires and enticed.
2. when desire has conceived it gives birth to sin
3. And sin when full grown brings for the death
4. Do not be deceived beloved brethren.

So yes, our right standing with God can be revoked or changed for:

1. Sin separates us from God since sin is of the devil
2. We can't serve sin and God both.
---Anne on 7/1/09




Annie - *Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world. But His blood will not cover the sins of those who say they believe yet continue to willfully sin, for they make a mockery of His sacrifice and receive God's vengeance.

Are you accusing others of not reading Romans 6?

'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?'

No one who is born of His Spirit continues to willfully sin.

1Jo 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for Gods seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
---Lee1538 on 7/1/09


Mark Eaton~ Nana continuously quotes scripture. I have not heard Nana say anything contrary to scripture as read in it's entirety to understand the fullness of the Bible's message. Nana gets his theology from the word of God.
---Anne on 7/1/09


Jerry, first, I do love you. I believe you out of all the SDA's on line, bring the subject of breaking of the laws whenever you have a chance to talk about the Sabbath no matter what other topics we are talking about. All the others answer to the subject on the blog. The Sabbath Day has nothing to do with someone's receiving salvation or losing it. The important things we should discuss are the essentials of the Christian faith which concerns the system of believes that govern who we are as Christians. The only thing I disagree with you more is the breaking of the law. And when you accuse another of not keeping a law, (Sabbath) you are saying he is sinning and knowing it but you are not. That is the fault I see in your system of believe.
---MarkV. on 7/1/09


Jerry 2: continue,
I believe that every genuine Christian loves the Lord with all his heart and never wishes to sin. That no one has a right to compare himself to another brother or sister. When people began to say you have to do this and you have to do that in order to be save, those are works for salvation. What I fight for is the sufficiency of Christ Works. Nothing can be more important for salvation. No one can contribute to his own salvation. It is a gift of God. All of God. And all who are truely of God give all the glory to God.
All who are not, want the glory themselves with their own precious sinful works. Since they are not of faith.
---MarkV. on 7/1/09


*Some say 9 of the Commandments are still in force, some 2, and others like my friend Lee, say there is only one

Again Jerry you fail to understand that a covenant is a legally binding agreement and whatever is NOT in a covenant cannot be legally binding.

I would ask you again, just where in the New Covenant of the church do you see any command or even a suggestion we must observe any day as holy?

You poor boy have no answer, all you have is some kind of religion philosophy promoted by a brain damaged old woman!

Romans 14:5-6b One person considers one day to be above another day. Someone else considers every day to be the same. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.
---Lee1538 on 7/1/09




MarkV~ I don't like disagreeing with you either, but I have to for the sake of the truths written in God's Holy Word.

Suzie and I know that the gospel message you teach is watered down.

Suzie and I do not teach the works of man, but rather the works of Christ abiding in men.

Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world. But His blood will not cover the sins of those who say they believe yet continue to willfully sin, for they make a mockery of His sacrifice and receive God's vengeance.

Jesus blood covers the sins of those who sincerely confess/repent and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness (I Jn 1:9) Whoever abides in Him does not sin. (I Jn 3:6)
---Anne on 7/1/09


Nana:

How can you disagree with Scripture?

Romans 11:29 "for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable".

Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".

Do you folks ever read the Bible? Or do you just disagree when you hear something that you don't like. Where do you get your theology from, some preacher on TV?
---Mark_Eaton on 7/1/09


Suzie, I hate to disagree with Anne but I always do since she is teaching a different gospel then Christianity teaches. The real gospel of Christ does not include man's works with Christ works for salvation. That is the teachings of the RCC. Justification by faith and works. Under the gospel of Christ, no man's contributions are needed to save a soul. "His death was and is sufficient to save any soul." His perfect sacrifice, was the only thing that could pay for our sins.
---MarkV. on 6/30/09

Again markv, you ignore the entire book of James that totally contridicts what you are saying here. And no one said they do works on their own. No one could do any good without Christ in them.
---miche3754 on 7/1/09


MarkV~ Listen for once, I do NOT teach the works of man (the works of man are works of "SELF- righteousness" such as ceremonial laws, holy days, etc.)...I talk about the works of CHRIST working INSIDE of men which is "GOD's righteousness."

MarkV, Of COURSE we need Christ's works on the cross to be saved because all of us have sinned and could never stand before a holy God apart from Jesus' sacrifice. But Jesus did NOT say He justified EVERYONE by His works on the cross, He said He justifies those who do His Father's will. These are His deciples who follow Him in obedience. His deciples will not willfully sin, for this would be making a mockery of His sacrifice (Heb 10) and they receive God's vengeance.

---Anne on 7/1/09


MarkV: Thanks for the apology - I think. Did you note the quote marks about Yochanan's remark? It was his remark that you found offensive. I agreed with his assertion as it pertains to the whole of the Ten Commandment Law - not just the Sabbath. I was speaking of the OSAS philosophy, which I see as cheap grace - a quick dip in a small pool and then they are 007-License to Sin! Some say 9 of the Commandments are still in force, some 2, and others like my friend Lee, say there is only one. I say there are 10. If it was Jesus' intent to obliterate His own Law, as such philosophies assert, then He sure missed 3.5 years of opportunities to clearly spell it out. Only out of context twisting of Paul's writings arrive at such conclusions.
---jerry6593 on 7/1/09


"This gift of righteousness or right-standing with God cannot be revoked or changed once given. God does not take-back the gifts he gives."
---Mark_Eaton on 6/29/09
Disagree with that. "Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." We need to flee from things that will send us 'behind' Christ. I do not see how being 'behind' Christ is being in Him.
---Nana on 7/1/09


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Suzie, I hate to disagree with Anne but I always do since she is teaching a different gospel then Christianity teaches. The real gospel of Christ does not include man's works with Christ works for salvation. That is the teachings of the RCC. Justification by faith and works. Under the gospel of Christ, no man's contributions are needed to save a soul. "His death was and is sufficient to save any soul." His perfect sacrifice, was the only thing that could pay for our sins.
---MarkV. on 6/30/09


Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
---Bob on 6/30/09


MarkV - read again my post, the question was not directed at you but Jerry.

Totally agree that the New Testament nowhere states that Sabbath breaking is a sin.

Adventists, like Jerry, are left out on a limb when they accuse others of sins when they cannot point to a single verse to support their accustation. But there again, we all know who the accuser of our brethren really is (Rev. 12:10).

You are doing just fine there brother MarkV, I will not be your opponent.
---Lee1538 on 6/30/09


Lee, I was surprise you ask me that question. Especially from you. There is no passage that states that not keeping the Sabbath is sin under the New Covenant. I never said there was.
If you had read my post correctly you would understood that I suggest they thought that. I said, "you want everyone to think (or believe)" I didn't say I believe it. I hope that answers your question. A little reading would have given you my answer. I don't need lessons on the law Lee, I might need lessons on what SDA's teach as far as their whole doctrines, but not the law.
---MarkV. on 6/30/09


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SuzieH~ You're doing great. There are a lot of 'liberals' out there who think God is just going to wink at their sins because they made a confession of some sorts.

You're right, if we have truly and earnestly repented, then we are not going to commit willful sin if we're truly saved by God's grace. We're not to make a mockery of Christ's holy blood and commit sin if we're His child...if we do, then we're not His child (Heb. 10:26+, I Jn 5:18,19, I Jn 3:6-9, Rom 8:13 etc.)

Jesus said, 'Why do you call me Lord, if you don't obey me', and 'Not all who say Lord Lord enter heaven, but he who does My Father's will.'

It's too bad there's so many 'liberals' who want to have their cake (salvation), and eat it too (partake in sin).
---Anne on 6/30/09


Jerry = *If you'd care to check below, I never mentioned the Sabbath.

Very good Jerry, hopefully you are starting to realize Christians are not commanded anywhere in Scripture to observe any day nor restricted as to foods.

Romans 14:4-7 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, ...
---Lee1538 on 6/30/09


Jerry, this is what you said,
"Yochanan: "The Torah walk is about checking yourself first in the mirror....The other problem is some Chrisians get involved in "rebellious liberal cults" who teach Law bias using double talk from "Sophist" philosophy to pervert gospel into lawlessness."
I took it you were refering to all those that don't keep the Sabbath. You see Jerry, I would love to discuss thing with you. I know you know a lot, and it would be great to learn things from you I might not know, but it seems, since I begin here that every time you have a chance to through in the breaking of the law, you are refering to the Sabbath and those who don't agree with you. If I'm wrong I appoligize.
---MarkV. on 6/30/09


MarkV: "I am holy and you guys are not, etc."

There was a time not long ago when you and I could have a forthright, yet cordial, conversation without resorting to childish name calling. How ironic that the issue upon which we finally agreed was that of "the judging of others motives and intents," and my contention that such behavior was the sole province of God. Yet here you are not three weeks later claiming to know my motives and intents. You dishonor God by usurping His job.

If you'd care to check below, I never mentioned the Sabbath. I have also spoken on these blogs against murder, adultery, etc. It must be the Holy Spirit pricking your conscience, 'cause it wasn't me.
---jerry6593 on 6/30/09


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SuziH -- the scriptures you quote often bear no relationship to the points you make....
But that's beside the point.

What I was wondering in my last post is, do you feel you have somehow been "set apart by God" for the purpose of pointing out other Christians' sins?

The Bible is available to everyone who reads these blogs. We are all able to read...and most here DO read scripture, often on a regular basis! We are answerable to God, no one else. And God, believe it or not, speaks to ALL of us who listen for His voice and name his son Jesus as Savior.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
---Donna66 on 6/29/09


SuzieH does not understand the gospel message.


Christ paid the penalty for sin in FULL and our salvation does not depend upon what we do, but only upon what He has already done for us.

As for our walk....

Romans 1:17 For in it (i.e. the gospel) the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, 'The righteous shall live by faith'.

As for our salvation ....

Eph 2:8-10 For by GRACE you have been saved through FAITH. And this is NOT your own doing, it is the GIFT of God, NOT a result of works, so that no one may boast.For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
---lee1538 on 6/29/09


*Jerry, you keep talking about the 10 Commandments only because you want everyone to think that the Sabbath is broken on purpose by all others, not SDA's.

While you are answering MarkV, could you please tell us where in the New Covenant of the church it states that breaking the OT Sabbath is a sin.

There are a listing of sins found in Mark 7,21f, Romans 1:29f, Galatians 5:19f, and 2 Timothy 3:1-4 and Sabbath breaking is not even listed. 3.

Bet you do not have an answer!!!!!
---lee1538 on 6/29/09


Suzie, I think you should read all of Ps. 51 and nowhere does God say we are made sinless or made perfect. In fact God is not even talking. It is David talking to God in repentance, asking Him to please clean him of all unrigheousness. He wrote it because he had just had an affair with Bathsheba and his murder of Uriah, her husband (2 Sam.11-12). It is one of 7 poems called penitential Psalms. To David's credit, he recognized fully how horrendus his sin was against God, blamed no one but himself, and begged for forgiveness.
So before you start posting passages about sinlessness read the context.
---MarkV. on 6/29/09


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SuzieH:

If a believer sins, they do not become "out of Christ".

Romans 4:24 "but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead" teaches us that we have been credited righteousness because we believed in Jesus.

2 Cor. 5:21 "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" also teaches us that we have become the righteousness of God in Christ.

This gift of righteousness or right-standing with God cannot be revoked or changed once given. God does not take-back the gifts he gives.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/29/09


//...I don't understand what causes any Christian to spend so much time and effort cautioning OTHER Christians about THEIR sins.//

Because when we sin, we are no longer "in Christ" but have departed from God and are out side the body of Christ. 1Cor 6:18 When we sin the law will reapply: the wages of sin is death to those outside the body.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. (Heb 12:15)

We must regain His forgiveness. (Mt6:9-15, Lk 11:2-4)

Mk 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

1Cor 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God,
him shall God destroy...

Defile = unholy, sinful.
---SuzieH on 6/29/09


MarkV
When Christ forgives someone of their sins they become sinless, holy, perfect, undefiled, and righteous. They are clean and without sin.Ps51:7

Ps119:1
Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.

When someone commits a sin again, they become defiled again.
Christ did not forgive future sins. Mk7:23, 1Cor3:17

Obedience shows true repentance. Mt3:8

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Without spot means without sin.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators...
---SuzieH on 6/29/09


Is a foregone conclusion that the SDA understand Sabbath keeping to be keeping of the law! And of course that is correct and I agree with that. So is the SDA by keeping the law justified(made righteous in God's eyes).

Romans 3:20,"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

This verse appears to be the insurmountable mountain in the way for the SDA.
---mima on 6/29/09


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MarkV -*I am holy and you guys are not.

Walk into any SDA church on Saturday and all you will ever heard is how holy they consider themselves to be while all others, especially Roman Catholics, are servants of evil.

Their religion is all Old Testament teachings as they believe themselves to be Jewish Christians. Until something happens to remove the veil, they will continue to condemn others while praising themselves.

2Co 3:14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
---Lee1538 on 6/29/09


Donna, you're correct. The reason I come on line. No one has to tell a genuine believer not to sin. God tells us through His Word what is right and what is wrong. When one person tells another Christian how they sin, they should look at themselves before judging others. Posting passages to genuine Christians that if we sin we are going to hell only displays their self righteous behavior. No one with a true love for Christ is ever lost." All who are born of God never want to sin. They have a true love for Christ, for no one lost has a love for Christ. But just because they are born of the Spirit does not mean they are perfect. Since none is perfect. We are all striving to reach the goal set for us. But no one alive has arrived.
---MarkV. on 6/29/09


Jerry, you keep talking about the 10 Commandments only because you want everyone to think that the Sabbath is broken on purpose by all others, not SDA's. What you tend to forget are, the other sins that all of you commit as if they are not of any importance. Not a one of you is without sin. None of us are either. No one is without sin.
This self righteous behavior is the same that Anne and other teach. I am holy and you guys are not.
I would say that before you call other's things as you always do, you should look at the mirror yourself. Clean your own sins before you judge someone else. I don't especially care when you want to worship. You can do it Saturday's, if you wish, no one is stopping you.
---MarkV. on 6/29/09


One thing that keeps me coming back to some of these blogs about "fulfilling the law" is the assumption on the part of some Christians that most of the rest of us think our sin doesn't matter.

Any true Christian knows better.
We love the Lord because He first loved us and it is love for Him that makes us WANT to please HIM. And if we don't, HE lets us know!
(one of the functions of the Holy Spirit is to convict of sin)

AND
Hbr 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

I guess I don't understand what causes any Christian to spend so much time and effort
cautioning OTHER Christians about THEIR sins.
---Donna66 on 6/28/09


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Yochanan: "The Torah walk is about checking yourself first in the mirror....The other problem is some Chrisians get involved in "rebellious liberal cults" who teach Law bias using double talk from "Sophist" philosophy to pervert gospel into lawlessness."

Well said! The 10C Law is indeed a mirror by which we know if we are sinning. It is sharply precise as to our behavoir, and not based on nebulous feelings of "love" or mere "belief" as some teach. It is plainly spoken and not subject to any private interpretation.

I think that the sophistry of which you speak was the crux of what Peter meant (2 Pet 3:16) by those who "wrest the scriptures to their own destruction."
---jerry6593 on 6/28/09


Jesus was the Word (law) made flesh, and in Him ALL the laws of God were made complete (fulfilled). Jesus did NOT do away with the law, but completed (fulfilled) it by living how He did, and doing what He did on the cross (it is finished). We are still COMMANDED to obey the laws of God today. Thou shalt not kill (murder) - if you have hated someone, or been angry with someone, you have murdered. It is not just taking a gun and shooting someone (although that applies too). Forgive and love is the solution.
---Leslie on 6/27/09


*Perfection pertains to being sinless, clean and holy.

In scripture it simply means to reach maturity, not a state of sinlessness. However, when we see Christ face to face,then we will be glorified and be sinless. This is the end result of the process we call sanctification. Look it up!

Whoever tells you that you can be sinless simply does not know or understand the Scriptures.
You will only frustrate yourself if you continue to seek a state of sinlessness.
---Lee1538 on 6/27/09


Donna - *We don't have to worry about perfection.

True, totally agree. However, since we have become part of the family of God, we need to be concerned about what we do as He knows how to discipline those whom He loves. Hebrews 12.

Yes, I noted that AA is alcoholic anonymous, I notice too late that I used AAA when I hit submit. True that many of the self help or self improvement programs do use Biblical teachings in their programs.
---Lee1538 on 6/26/09


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Matthew 23:35: "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, ..." God called Job perfect and upright, Job 1:8: "my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"
Walk by faith? No problem if also:
2 Peter 1, "... giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, ..."
1 Peter 3:11-12: "Let him eschew evil, and do good, let him seek peace, and ensue it. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil."
---Nana on 6/26/09


To The Lord's Sheep,

Mt 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Perfection pertains to being sinless, clean and holy.

If you do a word study (1611KJV) on perfect, perfection, conscience,
you will find that these have to do with the New Covenant priesthood.
This is the cleansing of our hearts/mind and heavenly records.
Taking away our past sins which we repent of, and ask forgiveness for daily.
(Mt 6, Lk 11 The keys)

If Christ had not been raised from the dead,
we all would still be in our sins (1Cor 15:17).

He was raised for our justification to be our mediator.
Rom 8:34...is risen again...who also maketh intercession for us.

Heb 8:2
---SuzieH on 6/26/09


Lee -- Well said. Is it FALSE humility to say our righteousness is in CHRIST? If it was OUR righteousness, we would be forever frustrated trying to reach "perfect".

We don't have to worry about perfection. We read and hear His word. We ask to be taught of the Holy Spirit. We avoid what we know to be sin and repent when we fall (which, of course, wouldn't happen if we were perfect) But we depend in HIS righteousness for eternal life.

2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in HIM.

By the way AAA = American Automobile Association. AA = Alcoholics Anonymous, which uses Biblical principles to help Christians and non-Christians overcome alcoholism.
---Donna66 on 6/25/09


Lee- "Christian walk" is about practice of God's word in Love, not mocking with false legal charges.

The Torah walk is about checking yourself first in the mirror....The other problem is some Chrisians get involved in "rebellious liberal cults" who teach Law bias using double talk from "Sophist" philosophy to pervert gospel into lawlessness.

The narrow way is not left or right. It is following Yahushua(Jesus).

The book of James proves the point of the Gospel walk. That's one reason Martin Luther and some protestants wanted it out. The Faith of Abraham is not intellectual but Shema..hear and do.

Matt 7:23 & chapter 25 reflects this fact in the end.
---Yochanan on 6/25/09


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*How is one to know when one is made perfect?

You add water and stir and if it turns blue, then you know one has achieved perfection! LOL

Since Christians are commanded to walk by faith and our righteousness is in Christ, the flesh can NEVER be perfected. Howbeit, we are not judged by the flesh but whether or not we are in Christ in which there is no condemnation.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

As we grow in Christ, we overcome much of the temptations wrought by the flesh.
---Lee1538 on 6/25/09


Yocha - *Funny how so called Holy Spirit filled people go to self empowerment classes, then neglect the simple instructions of the Bible.

Many of those 'self-empowerment classes' use basically the truth found in Scripture. AAA is a good example.

One problem so called Holy Spirit filled people has is that they often do not get deeper into the Word of God but find themselves in cults that do not teach the Christian walk is by faith but more so by works.

Col.2:21 Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch (referring to things that all perish as they are used)according to human precepts and teachings?
---Lee1538 on 6/25/09


How is one to know when one is made perfect?
Can one be perfect, without having perfect knowledge?
This is trusting in the flesh? Having your own righteousness, that which is of the law and not the faith of Christ.

Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Truth, has God revealed it onto you?
Do you have perfect knowledge?
If your answer is no! Well then?
May God Bless Us All
---TheSeg on 6/25/09


They taught purpose and higher goals, but some of you teach failure and denigration in a false show of humility.

Well said Nana! Good observation and alignment with the full counsel of YHWH(God)'s word.

Funny how so called Holy Spirit filled people go to self empowerment classes, then neglect the simple instructions of the Bible. Spirit and written truth go together=Holiness.
---Yochanan on 6/25/09


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"... always be a conflict." Our Lord also gave the keys to victory,
"Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
"I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." Our Lord stated that there are just persons and did he not say, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."?
Paul said, "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" They taught purpose and higher goals, but some of you teach failure and denigration in a false show of humility.
---Nana on 6/24/09


When the Bible speaks of Job and Noah as being "perfect" it does not mean sinless and holy as the Lord Jesus. For Jesus NEVER sinned.

The Hebrew adjectives applied to these men mean: to be complete, be sound, be unimpaired, be upright (ethically). Some people can be described thus today.

But the ONLY way for human beings to have the righteousness of Christ is to have HIS righteousness IMPUTED to them by way of the cross. It absolutely can't be duplicated.

It becomes confusing, then, when some Christians claim to be "perfect"... perhaps even as they show far from Christ-like attributes! It makes one ask, Is it a problem of semantics, boastfulness, or are they being hypocritical?
---Donna66 on 6/24/09


SuzieH *We can fulfill the law and be perfect.

If you can be perfect, then you really do not need Jesus or the righteousness that is from him.

Obviously you are very blind to your spiritual condition. Even Paul admited to sin in his life -

Ro 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Ro 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Ro 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

It might benefit you to seek the council of a Christian minister.
---Lee1538 on 6/24/09


I am sorry, please do forgive me.
I keep hearing we can fulfill the law.

Frances008 is so correct, in saying. Its the law and the prophets.
And for good measure throw in the psalms.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

So, given this, should it then be said. We can fulfill the law and the prophets and the psalms? I think not!

Why, am I doing this? Its just so you know, in your heart, it is not by your hands!
But, by God!
---TheSeg on 6/24/09


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Great answer Michael, no one is perfect but Christ. Only through His pefectness can we be save. For none of us are pefect and never will be in this life. God knew that through the law no one could be saved. As Lee mentioned, no one could keep the law. For all come short of the glory of God. But through Christ we are made alive and given His righteousness, His perfect works for us. Praise be to God in the highest.
---MarkV. on 6/23/09


Yahushua-Jesus- gives details in Matthew 5-7 chapters about how He came to give true interpretation of the Law, so as to animate it's skelaton in meaning and truth. The Law or Holy instructions were never meant to be added too or taken away from. They are YHWH's Holy character.

Yahushua(Jesus) never had a reason to kill anyone since He was the suffering servant and High Priest. When He returns, there will alot of blood spilled because He will be Judge and King.

Many translations from Hebrew interpret Kill in the commandments as Murder which has different meaning as seen in God's instructions to deal with the pagans who had been murdering babies and others etc.

We should never look to kill anyone..emotionally or physically.
---Yochanan on 6/22/09


MIchael

The Logic is faulty. Two different things are incorrectly mixed.

We can fulfill the law and be perfect.
Fulfilling the law does not mean never having committed a sin.

When you correct it through repentance and forgiveness you have regained the position as being righteous/obedient because sin is erased.

To say that Christ is the only one who has never sinned is obviously correct.

To say he is the only one who has fulfilled the law
is a false statement/conclusion.

God said Noah and Job were perfect.
Both understood how to obtain forgiveness for their sins.
They did not remain guilty. (Today by Lk 11:2-4)

Ezk18:-32
---SuzieH on 6/22/09


Actually the full quote for this is that Jesus fulfils the law and prophets. His coming showed that what the prophets promise, will come to pass - unless God has told them to prophesy falsely because when they have spoken the truth and been disbelieved, then God loses patience. The Jews were expecting their Messiah and knew when he would come. He came and they failed to recognize him.
---frances008 on 6/23/09


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NO NOT ONE!
Maybe we should count it again.
How many now?
Not one!
But, do you understand why?

Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
John, fill with the holy ghost, from birth, suffered him.
All righteousness, lord, I dont understand?
Well, just maybe, you think this is just about you.
Not understanding, this is not just about you!
For all, have sin! All?
May the lord give you, all you are looking for!
God Bless You
---TheSeg on 6/22/09


Michael - *No other Name in heaven or on earth has this distinction,hence 'no man has,can, or ever will fullfill the law,except one,jesus.'

Totally agree with you, but there are some that will tell you that you can be perfect if you totally live under the influence or power of the Holy Spirit. They simply do not realize that while in the flesh, there will always be a conflict.

Ro 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

1 tim.1:15 Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
---Lee1538 on 6/22/09


Noah was perfect until: Genesis 9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken, and he was uncovered within his tent.
If Job continued to be perfect why did he have to repent?: Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor [myself], and repent in dust and ashes.
The rest is talking about our righteousness IN Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Let's see if we can try to name others 'who
knew no sin' shall we?.. got me stumped..
No other Name in heaven or on earth has this distinction,hence 'no man has,can, or ever will fullfill the law,except one,jesus.'thanks tom2
---MIchael on 6/22/09


Act 13:39-41
...from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses

Gal 2:21,16,3:11,24,Rm3:28
"the law" here means the Levitical priesthood laws
(outward circumcision, animal sacrifices, etc.)

Understand, we are not justified by keeping
the Levitical laws/carnal commandments,
but we are justified by faith in Christ Jesus.

Now Faith is not believing only, but also doing
what God said to do, which is obey Him.
(Believing + Obeying) Jm2

We are justified by Christ when we believe and obey Him.

Jm2:19
the devils also believe, and tremble.

Jm2:24
Ye see then how that by works
a man is justified, and not by faith only.
---SuzieH on 6/22/09


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As Caiaphas said, the Jewish law required that one man die for the sins of many. Jesus was the man. Sadly, most Jews did not recognize the fact. For that reason Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD.
---frances008 on 6/22/09


Jesus Christ fulfilled the law by abiding by the law. He didn't kill any one, and that's how he fulfilled the commandment "Thou shalt not kill."
---Elena on 6/21/09


Response to: "no man has,can, or ever will fullfill the law..."

Gen 6:9
...Noah was a just man
and perfect in his generations,
and Noah walked with God.

Job1:8
...Hast thou considered my servant Job,
that there is none like him in the earth,
a perfect and an upright man,
one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Col1:28
Whom we preach, warning every man,
and teaching every man in all wisdom,
that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

2Ti 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.

Rom8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh...
---SuzieH on 6/22/09


TheSeg

Excellent point.

Christ himself is teaching that the Ten Commandments are still in effect and are to be kept, and if we don't keep them, we are in danger of the judgment.

Mt5:22
But I say unto you,
That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause
shall be in danger of the judgment

How is he in danger of the judgment?

Mt5:21
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time,
Thou shalt not kill

1Jn3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer:
and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

By this last scripture if you are not keeping the commandments,
The Father and the Son are not abiding in you either.
---SuzieH on 6/22/09


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When I saw this question, I was offended!
How does one fulfill "Thou shalt not kill?"
The answer is by not killing, right. I know its not!

The more I read the words in red. The more, I myself cry! They tell me, we are still killing, we cant stop. It seems to me, the more we try to help each other. The more we separate, the lord, trying to keep him to ourselves. I will not even try to explain myself. I dont believe, I can explain!

Except, to say, I look to Mary Magdalene! I have heard so many stories. As to why she was at the lord feet. But, very few will ever understand the truth of it.
God Bless You All
---TheSeg on 6/22/09


TheSeq - Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

the reality of the verse simply states that as far as the law is concerned, everyone is guilty. However, for those that believe in Christ and have accepted what He has done for us, our justification is not from the law but from the grace provided for us in Christ.

Ga 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
---lee1538 on 6/21/09


pharisee,on the blog,are all catholics doomed,I apologize if somewhere someplace you got the impression that I believe santification is not done by the spirit.I know it is.
---tom2 on 6/21/09


Php 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife, and some also of good will:
Php 1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
Php 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill, and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:--

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
---TheSeg on 6/21/09


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Jesus is God IN ENTIRETY...

Colossians 2:9
"For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily".

"God is LOVE"....if we are truly INside the body of Christ, we are isolated, protected and "hidden" from old testament law...LOVE has "fulfilled", ended and completed the "law".

The word "love" does not only refer to what our character/attitude should be, it is also one of the ultimate characterizations/definitions of the attributes and qualities of God (the other characterization is "God is LIGHT", 1 John 1:5, we should have the "fruit of light", Ephes. 5:8 in order to be compatible with His spirit).
---more_excellent_way on 6/21/09


God's words have universal meaning (universal PRINCIPLES are integral) and OUR fulfillment (attitude of love) is what will make us to be "ONE" WITH HIM.

We must also realize that we should not love others MORE than we love ourselves (other people should not become an icon/hero to us...God is practical and the ONLY hero). Love others ONLY as much as we have decided to adore ourselves (only the conceited will ADORE themselves...we must take care to maintain HUMILITY).

In our practice of faith, NO ONE should get "special treatment".

James 2:1
"show no partiality as you hold the faith" (personal relations...okay).
---more_excellent_way on 6/21/09


thou shalt not kill does not mean that a soldier shalt not kill.There are rightoeus wars,such as destroying hitler.What this references is murder,or killing as a private citizen for any other reason then self defense.
---tom2 on 6/21/09


christ on many occassions spoke and said that he must fullfill all that was written about him. So yes jesus fullfilled everything, EVERYTHING including the law.
---tom2 on 6/21/09


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How does one fulfill "Thou shalt not kill?"

All law is "fulfilled" in this "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" for "Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law."
If one truly loves (seeks to uplift, edify, benefit and honor) the Father and his fellow man, he has "fulfilled", in every sense of the word, the law.
For "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
To my knowledge, Jesus is the only man who has ever truly accomplished this. However, the rest of us can aspire to His perfection, through the submission of our will to His empowerment, influence, and guidance.
---Josef on 6/21/09


no man has,can, or ever will fullfill the law,except one,jesus.This is why the father sent him to die for us.Now with help from jesus we can,because he can,but we are no longer bound by the law. We live under grace.The main component of the law is love,loving everyone as thyself,which clearly is not possible without jesus.GOD has 2 great commandments both of which are based on love.one is loving Him with all thy mind,srength,,heart,and will,and loving thy neighbor as thyself.
---tom2 on 6/21/09


We have the spirit of wisdom,spirit of truth ,guardian angels and the indwelling spirit of God at our immediate assistance to responsibly interpret the old commandment and likewise the new commandment.
I realize there is a difference between offensive killing and defense killing.
If a modern civilization ceases to maintain a defense mechanism then the uncivilized will quickly force civilization back into the stone age.
Individually I believe that there must also be a defense mechanism to withstand the offense.
If not immediate failure of all governments will be swift.
---erl on 6/20/09


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