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Divine Judgment On USA

Since the 1960's, the USA has become one of the most sinful countries in the world. Is the decline of America an indication of God's judgment/punishment?

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 ---Janze on 6/25/09
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***Are you saying that God will save Israel without Christ?Miche***


Miche, does Romans 11 say God will save Israel without Christ? Does Zechariah say God will save Israel without Christ?


Where do you get these questions. WHO is it they look upon whom they have pierced....Zechariah 12:10? ?

WHO is the deliver coming out of Sion... Jesus Christ....again stated in Romans 11!!

The KING is coming Miche.....Jesus Christ is the KING...and Matthew 25 state the KING when He returns will take His throne

Matthew 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, ....

King of the JEWS, LORD of the CHURCH!!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/14/09


Janze, don't believe the statements
"America the new chosen people" or, a new chosen land.

Comes from someone's finite twisted mind. Written by someone who thinks he knows Calvin and his teachings, and read and believed by those who are not making themselves approve to the Truth. Just another false book, in stores together with many others who teach prosperity from the charasmatic movement. The chosen people are all who have come to Christ and all who will continue to come to Christ in the future. They come from all corners of the world.
God will judge all individuals, believers in the Judgment Seat of Christ for their rewards, and the unbelievers who rejected Christ in the Great White Throne of Judgment.
---MarkV. on 7/14/09


Kath,
Again you still didn't answer.Miche**


Yes Miche, I did answer your question. You just refuse to believe God and His word.

I gave you all scripture including Romans 11....God STILL has a plan for Earhtly Israel, when He returns to reign and rule on EARTH for 1000 years. Ezekiel 36 is again ANOTHER place you refuse to believe. Isaiah 14 is another. I could go on and on, but you refuse to read and believe God's word!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/14/09


Katherine, Though I am NOT a worshipper of Calvin, I can't help but wonder, have you ever read any of his writings, or just things other people have said about him? I have just finished reading a book that covers some of his teachings in regard to Christianity, and he nowhere promotes a "prosperity" gospel, but rather teaches the denial of self and the leavyng off of financial gains/pursuit if it requires denying Christ's teaching.
---tommy3007 on 7/13/09


Kath4453
>>And we all must be politically correct without any comments or else that is considered a hate crime...hummm!<<. That's NOT democracy USA-style. Far from it.

Our Democracy (but not every democracy) DOES allow for everyone to worship whatever god they choose. GOD allows the same! Those who do not worship the One True God (including Jesus) will perish.... but it's a choice allowed by the Almighty.

I see a theocracy as a dangerous thing, indeed...UNTIL THE MILLENNIUM, when we will have a theocracy ruled by Jesus Christ himself.
---Donna66 on 7/13/09




We have one mediator, that is Jesus, in John 16:23 What so ever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it to you
---Sharron on 7/13/09


Kath,
Again you still didn't answer.
Is there 2 ways to get to God or 1?
My Bible says that there is only one. And that is through Christ. We all have to enter through the exact same door. We will all be saved by the exact same messiah- CHRIST.
NONE can circumvent the DOOR- CHRIST.
Are you saying that God will save Israel without Christ?
Why do you refuse to answer?
Is there 1 door or 2, Kath?
---miche3754 on 7/13/09


I'm reminded of when Joseph was sold into slavery in Egypt. Because Pharoah honored Jospeh's God, God blessed Egypt. Joseph too refused to bow down to Pharoah's god.

So many think this new kind of democracy is the greatest thing ever. However Democracy allows for anyone to worship any god they want. And we all must be politically correct without any comments or else that is considered a hate crime...hummm!

I wonder how this new democracy will play in the end times, and if democracy itself might be the false prophet that helps bring in anti-christ. America is the big pusher here!

Any thoughts??
---kathr4453 on 7/13/09


Your allegiance lies with God in Christ, and not to the USA, not to your race, not to your political party, not to your family, not to your church, and not to yourself.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/12/09
Brother, this is a BIG Amen.
We have reference in the bible of this too.
The 3 hebrews who refused to bow down to false Gods or eat food sacrificed to false Gods were thrown n the fire and God saved them because they refused to sin(disobey God)
Going against God is a big no, no. He says in the last days we will be hunted and persecuted because we follow him. Christ was persecuted and we are no better than our master.
---miche3754 on 7/13/09


Jeff, I am sorry you have to listen to a lot of garbage every day. It seems when a person's opinion is given and someone doesn't agree, the other will get angry and call someone names or call you a sinner, or unsaved. I would have liked to discuss all this questions to the best of our ability and if the other person doesn't agree, so be it. Move on to the next question. But pride is so obvious here that the reason for answering is not for God anymore but for self. The whole reason for answering becomes meaningless. Hey, I would like to read what you have to say concerning this blog. Go for it and will see if things turn out ok from now on without someone throwing dirt with their answers.
---MarkV. on 7/13/09




The declining morals of America, and her decade-by-decade rejection of the Sovereignty of GOD, is a "provoker" of GOD's Judgment. The immorality itself is not GOD's Judgment. Rather, GOD judges BECAUSE of the ecclesiastical and national immoralities.
---Gordon on 7/13/09


Zech 12:10-12
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced,THE RISEN CHRIST HERE and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem,as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.


Matthew 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Romans 11!!
---kathr4453 on 7/13/09


Mark Eaton, you make an excellent point. When the government demands a person to do evil in the sight of God, then the idea stated in Romans 13 no longer count. Our first authority is God and as long as we do not break His Laws, we can obey the laws of the country we live in.
---frances008 on 7/13/09


Kath, You still didn't answer my question.

Do you believe that Israel will be saved outside of being in Christ?

My Bible says NO. No one may enter unless they have the son of God. Because without the Son, they can have the Father.

It is not replacement theology. Christ came for all. And Israel will be saved the same as gentiles. When Gentiles are grafted in, they are no longer gentiles.
Christ is the only way truth and life. No man goes to the father except through Christ. That includes Israel.
So, think about this really big truth before you respond about Israel the fleshly Nation.
---miche3754 on 7/13/09


Mark Eaton -- Yes, our true citizenship is in Heaven. But we are to be salt and light in the world.

Jesus, praying to the Father, said Jhn (17:15-17) I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
---Donna on 7/13/09


Unless I miss something, your citzenship is in heaven and not here on earth (Phil 3:20).

Your allegiance lies with God in Christ, and not to the USA, not to your race, not to your political party, not to your family, not to your church, and not to yourself.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/12/09


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Miche, Did you read Zech 12-14? Now read Hosea. The "divorce", is shown to be temporary. Hosea 3:1,2, Hosea is told to buy back Gomer, teaching a "restoration" to God of the "branches that were pruned off" (Romans 11:17,24). Hosea 3:1-5, This restoration will happen "in the latter days" Hosea 2:14-16 "you will call me 'My Husband' and no longer call me 'My Master.'

In verses 19,20 God says, "I will betroth you to me forever, in righteousness and justice, in lovingkindness and mercy, I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord." This time, still future, when they will be "grafted back into their own olive tree'" (Romans 11:23-27).
---kathr4453 on 7/12/09


Kathr, here is my answer to you. "You know nothing about Calvinism"
Just because you get a book from someone who is not Calvinist you think you know everything, well you don't. You have never made the time to learn the teachings from Calvin at all. That is why you know nothing. If you had you would realize all those people who write about him are those who are giving you their opinions and most of them hate him. It is the same when I read your opinions, they are lies because you hate him. You say I worship Calvin, I worship God, and defend the teachings of Calvin for he too worship God. But your mind is corrupt already. And nothing can change it. So go ahead and get angry. That is what I see from you anyway.
---MarkV. on 7/12/09


The only Chosen People are those who obey God.. not those who believe that they are saved by faith alone. Jesus himself answered the question of who is brother and sister and mother was - those who do as God commands.
---frances008 on 7/12/09


Kathr, how can you know about Calvin if you don't read what Calvin taught? Simple question. You are reading other books of someone else's opinion, as if I was reading your book, only your opinions. When you read what he taught, then you will be able to answer about what he taught. Otherwise it is just a lot of talk and no Truth.
What bothers me is that you make comments without knowing for yourself. It is wrong to judge something or someone without real cause. It is to bring false accusations. No Christians should do that. You are capable of been a good Christian without all those accusations. All you need to do is continue to speak the Truth of the Gospel. That is real Truth.
---MarkV. on 7/10/09


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I have very few comments on any of these blogs.
I sit back and watch endless arguments coming from people who are supposed to be Christians and all I see are accusations and finger pointing. I would really like to be engaged in intelligent conversation with other Christians but these blogs are mostly contrived of "Meaningless genealogy and fables that bring strife." Sorry but I won't be a part of this any more. In Christ, Jeff
---jeff9994 on 7/11/09


kathr4453--

The prosperity "gospel" is false. God does not promise us any thing like prosperity. He has promised conflict and suffering (but not necessarily poverty, that I remember)

If America has been blessed by God, as I believe it has, it's not because of any "covenant" with US. It's more likely because our prosperity has allowed Him to help people world-wide and reach them with His Gospel... also because it made us useful to Israel.

I don't see poverty as a blessing.

I believe we should be like Paul who said (Phl 4:12)I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
---Donna66 on 7/10/09


OUR blessings come solely from our blessing Israel...THAT truth has NEVER Changed. "
just more lies coming from you concerning Calvinism. Study to be approve before you talk.
---MarkV. on 7/10/09

Our blessings didn't come from blessing the Jewish anti-christ Nation. It wasn't even in existence when Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

Our blessings are noted in scripture in 70 places....given to Israel/the non-judaic nations you've cast away.
Isaiah 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Attempting to teach you may learn.
---Trav on 7/10/09


Kath,
I agree 100% that NO, America is not a replacement for Israel.

My question to you is this- how do you believe that God is still going to save Israel the Nation? Is it based upon the OT?
Because My bible says that God divorced Israel the Nation.
God also says that the only way ANYONE will be saved is through and By Christ.
Do you realize that you are unknowingly stating that Israel will be saved because of OT promises and NOT through Christ?
No nation will be saved unless they turn to Christ and repent that includes America and Israel. Christ is the only door now and all who want to be saved have to walk though HIM. Otherwise they will be judged as thieves.
---miche3754 on 7/10/09


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And for your FYI:

This is why there was so little regard for the American Indian....they, were considered the "ITES" to be driven off the land...just as Israel did and was told to do in the Land they were promised by God.

Calvinism...murdered and burnt at the stake...from the same mentality ....ites, heathens etc, and that they must be KILLED....

Calvin/Calvinism tried to set up THEOCRACIES, giving them the right/permission (so they thought) to murder anyone they felt was against their doctrine.

Jesus sent us into the world to preach the Gospel....not kill and steal land! or murder anyone who disagrees with us.....that IS anti-christ!
---kathr4453 on 7/10/09


God will not punish the just with the unjust

we are just reaping the fruits of our doings.... bad parenting the most to blame
---PAT on 7/10/09


MarkV, I am so sorry the truth offends you. However this is common knowledge and not something I made up.

Just read..."The Light and the Glory" by Peter Marshall. THIS IS WHAT HE TEACHES and the book is used by Dr. James Kennedy and All REFORMED Theology teachers...

and yes, Calvin is noted for his teaching on economic prosperity, and is called the Godfather of the Prosperity Gospel. Calvin taught replacement Theology as does James Kennedy and all reformers from Peter Marshall's book. America is God's New Chosen Land and Americans are God's New Chosen people....right out of the book!!!!

MarkV, your pride and total worship of Calvin has blinded you to the truth.

Wake up before it's to late.
---kathr4453 on 7/10/09


Kathr, as I said before you know nothing of what you are talking about in the subject of Calvinism. Not a thing. All you do is accuse Calvinism for everything that is wrong in the world. You cannot answer a question without calling Calvinism something as you again did here,
"The Gospel of America is based on a false Gospel that America is now God's New Chosen People. That came through the false teachings of Calvinism, the Godfather of the Prosperity Gospel. It didn't work in Geneva and it won't work here. OUR blessings come solely from our blessing Israel...THAT truth has NEVER Changed. "
just more lies coming from you concerning Calvinism. Study to be approve before you talk.
---MarkV. on 7/10/09


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Donna66, God promised Israel The Nation in the OT prosperity for obedience. The prosperity teachers use this to apply to us TODAY, national prosperity and blessing for obedience. When the 1000 year Kingdom comes in, there will be earthly prosperity again under a THEOCRACY.

People are deceived and lulled to sleep by this false premise, not realizing OUR blessings are Spiritual Blessings in Heavenly Places in Christ.

Christians today, regardless of what country they live in SUFFER for Christ's sake, we don't PROSPER for Christ's sake. I believe THIS is anti-christ teaching....taking the place of the REAL Gospel, and putting this earthly prosperity in it's place. Anti-christ will bring peace,prosperity , for a while that is!
---kathr4453 on 7/10/09


kathr4453
I have NEVER believed that America is God's "new Chosen People". The only chosen people God ever had was Israel!
And they are not to be envied.
As the Jewish father in Fiddler on the Roof laments, " Oh God, couldn't you choose some one ELSE for a while?!"

Until recently, we have been a staunch ally of Israel. God has promised to bless those that bless Israel.

We have faithfully disseminated the Word of God throughout the world...and I think been blessed because of it.

But we have fallen down in both areas and morally as well. We are deserving of God's judgment. But to say that a loss of prosperity is "a blessing not a curse" ? Not as I see it!
---Donna66 on 7/9/09


Donna66, first of all, the question is concerning divine judgement on America. For there to be this divine Judgement on America (being singled out) one would have to be in Covenant with God. God NEVER made a Covenant with a Gentile Nation. If He had, there would be prophecy in the OT stating God would transfer the ONLY CONENANT He made with a Nation Israel, and give it to a Gentile Nation. No such scripture exists.

The Gospel of America is based on a false Gospel that America is now God's New Chosen People. That came through the false teachings of Calvinism, the Godfather of the Prosperity Gospel. It didn't work in Geneva and it won't work here. OUR blessings come solely from our blessing Israel...THAT truth has NEVER Changed.
---kathr4453 on 7/9/09


I can't believe all the people who think or agree with:

"Dont let PROSPERITY fool you. The decline of Prosperity in America is the best thing that ever happen"

The prosperity of the US has allowed the country to develop advances in technology, medicine, transportation, energy... saving the lives and raising the standard of living for millions all over the world. It has even allowed millions of copies of God's Word to be distributed accross the globe (That includes to Native Americans, and the people of China and Africa.)

This has happened because of personal liberty, free markets and the Judeo-Christian work ethic. The sacrifices in sweat and blood of generations preserved these. And you are HAPPY to see it go?
---Donna66 on 7/8/09


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Kathr - Amen sister, you go girl!

Cluny - I understand grammer is a personal obsession (I majored in journalism with a minor in speech), and I know God doesn't care about any human obsession outside of obedience.

Read John 17, discover the obsessions of Christ and do likewise.

God bless.
---larry on 7/8/09


I cant believe anyone thinks we were ALL THAT before 1960!!!

We began with Genocide of the American Indian...STOLE men from their own homelands and enslaved and bought slaves. Worked the Chinese to death on our railroads and then treated them like dung.....and you say we were better before the 1960???? Really!!! What about those horrible 20s?

America is no different than any other heathen nation. Dont let PROSPERITY fool you. The decline of Prosperity in America is the best thing that ever happened. Now THAT is a blessing not a curse! Except to the prosperity teachers who are liars !
---kathr4453 on 7/7/09

AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!!!!!!!
---miche3754 on 7/8/09


I agree with Kathr.

We in the USA have forgotten what the founders of this country told us. That religion and morality were supports for our prosperity and if removed, catastrophe.

I rarely quote anything but the Bible, but Geo. Washington's farewell address has a wonderful quote on this.

He said "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them."
---Mark_Eaton on 7/7/09


Keep on blessing me, YLBD. All you do is increase my heavenly treasure.
---Cluny on 7/7/09


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I cant believe anyone thinks we were ALL THAT before 1960!!!

We began with Genocide of the American Indian...STOLE men from their own homelands and enslaved and bought slaves. Worked the Chinese to death on our railroads and then treated them like dung.....and you say we were better before the 1960???? Really!!! What about those horrible 20s?

America is no different than any other heathen nation. Dont let PROSPERITY fool you. The decline of Prosperity in America is the best thing that ever happened. Now THAT is a blessing not a curse! Except to the prosperity teachers who are liars !
---kathr4453 on 7/7/09


Cluny, If you struggle at my simpicity, theres no way you understand my Father or my Brother or his messangers/Prophets/D's...
YLBD
ps. Get a Clue, you have no idea whom your speaking/typing too, or havent you read that part either?
---YLBD on 7/6/09


Please forgive any of my misspellings,
I finished the 9th grade and went into the U.S Marines, not much ed. needed when learning how to kill ppl.

Not to mention that i had 4 diff. stepdads by the age of 12., which caused a rebellion in me, and ed. was the last thing on my mind.

My words maybe spelt wrong sometimes, but they are always understandable.

Americans have the CHOICE in whom to serve, and WE can either choose God and do whats right OR WELL, i guess it doesnt matter if you didnt make the 1st choice, Judgment Cometh, and the swiftness of it shall be sure.

America NEEDS to get on its knees & Pray & turn unto God
YLBD
---YLBD on 7/6/09


As I have said elsewhere, a person who writes like a child is probably thinking like a child.
---Cluny on 7/4/09
Ah now we see the standard...
So what is cluney thinking like when he condemns those who can't "preform" as well as he does? Yet, he can't see what God has done for this country. He sure can't name one place that has been blessed or used more. You know Hitler had a vision of a superior race also. I guess it goes without saying, if you don't have a solution to the problem you are part of the problem. So, cluney what would you have those "lesser able" writers do? Not post maybe?
---Elder on 7/6/09


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Sorry Cluny,I didn't realise that it was Donna's quote you were citing!
The message tho still stands!
---1st_cliff on 7/5/09


Cluny, Don't feel bad, I've been "excised" a few times on here myself! (lol)
---1st_cliff on 7/5/09


\\But...if you'll excise me airing a pet peeve... the language used for texting or tweeting is very difficult for some people to read. This could be true if the reader speaks English as a second language or simply doesn't spend time texting\\

As I have said elsewhere, a person who writes like a child is probably thinking like a child.
---Cluny on 7/4/09


Perhaps you should read Jude if you haven't lately. See if any of it sounds familiar.
---Lanny on 7/4/09


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Poor grammer and/or spelling is excusable when the writer is one who, for whatever reason, knows no better. Then it is (for me anyway) easy to overlook.

But...if you'll excise me airing a pet peeve... the language used for texting or tweeting is very difficult for some people to read. This could be true if the reader speaks English as a second language or simply doesn't spend time texting....

The word limit on these blogs is not so severe that normal language can't be used.
---Donna66 on 7/2/09


Elder:

People with bad spelling and grammar aren't necessarily stupid, just likely less educated in terms of English spelling and grammar (much like many English-speaking foreigners make errors we never would). In many cases, such errors may indicate people with a better grasp of speech than of writing, and/or regional differences.

Mental faculties also degrade with time (I have noticed in the past decade I have been making more simple grammar and spelling errors like "elwhewhere").

But some people seem unable to express any kind of coherent sophisticated idea in either speech or writing. Trying to communicate with such people beyond simple concepts is much like trying to speak and understand a foreign language.
---StrongAxe on 7/1/09


ralph7477:

You accuse me of mischaracterizing Elder's post by adding the word "holy". Yet note that I did NOT say that Elder specifically used that word, so you are yourself mischaracterizing what I actually said. I also mentioned bumper stickers, something he did not say either.

Elder was saying that the US has published more Bibles and tracts - presumably to make a point that because of this, the US is in some kind of superior spiritual position than other countries who have not (whether this is interpreted as meaning "holy", "spiritual", "better" or what have you is left to the reader to interpolate - and comment on).
---StrongAxe on 6/30/09


\\Cluny (who sounds a lot like Jack reincarnated) says, "What's a "truth" that the US has been given that Great Britain or Luxembourg (for example) has not been given? Can you tell us?" Elder stated that the U.S. has been allowed to see more truth (as in a greater amount of the same thing), not that others have been denied truth. Fairly easy concept.\\

How so? What makes the USA superior to "lesser breeds without the law," as Kipling put it?

What "more truth" has the USA been given to see?

That should be a simple question to answer--if the one making the statement really thought about the meaning of his words.
---Cluny on 6/30/09


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StrongAxe,
I tend to agree with your statement of 6/29. But, tell me, if someone does have a problem writing or spelling as good as you do are they stupid? How could someone tell from a blog? What is helped or corrected by making a remark like cluney did? He didn't help the person.
You wrote, "(sometimes on these blogs, sometimes elwewhere....).
I have never seen the word "Elwewhere." Now, are we both stupid or did one of us make a mistake because we are human? I just don't like it when someone has a better advantage given them than someone else and they think they are above them because of it.
Content of the heart is more important than proper spelling.
---Elder on 6/30/09


So interesting how contentious people have to resort to mischaracterizing somebody's statement when they can't come up with a coherent point.

StrongAxe says, "Just because a country publishes more Bibles or has scriptures embedded in its buildings (and bumper stickers) doesn't necessarily make it more holy."
Where did Elder ever mention holiness?

Cluny (who sounds a lot like Jack reincarnated) says, "What's a "truth" that the US has been given that Great Britain or Luxembourg (for example) has not been given? Can you tell us?" Elder stated that the U.S. has been allowed to see more truth (as in a greater amount of the same thing), not that others have been denied truth. Fairly easy concept.
---ralph7477 on 6/30/09


\\What country has published/distributed as many printed copies of the Word of God or Gospel tracts than the USA?\\

At least you finally answered my question.

So you think that mere Christian publishing means the USA has been given "more truth"?

Do I understand you right?

What's a "truth" that the US has been given that Great Britain or Luxembourg (for example) has not been given? Can you tell us?
---Cluny on 6/29/09


Elder:

In order to be able to write clearly, one must be able to think clearly. While the opposite is not necessarily true (there are many clear thinkers who are not terribly literate, so their writing is sloppy), there are also many who can't write clearly because they can't think clearly. I have encountered several people (sometimes on these blogs, sometimes elwewhere - although I am NOT pointing out anyone in particular) whose writing is so muddled that it's impossible to decipher what they are trying to convey, even taking typos and incorrect spelling and incorrect grammar into account.

Language, like most other things, is a useful tool, and it's possible to accomplish more with it if one is proficient with it.
---StrongAxe on 6/29/09


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Strongaxe-- What you have expressed about the generations is true. That's why history repeats itself. That's why we seldom learn from history. Invariably, what's deemed progress in one area, produces set backs in another.

Solomon said there is "nothing new under the sun". How true it is.
---Donna66 on 6/29/09


To get back to the question, the answer is no. The decline of America is not an indication of God's judgement but rather his law.
God will let nations who desire to drift away to drift away and become snared in the consequences of its decision. That is his law.
On the other hand God is merciful and not willing that any should suffer who he is patient giving the lost a chance to come or return to him.
Christians do have the ability to stop the decline, but most prefer to fight the decline in the flesh with conservative politics, war, liberal enlightment or some other such nonsense.
We have no idea the power of intercessory prayer
---larry on 6/29/09


Elder:

Just because a country publishes more Bibles or has scriptures embedded in its buildings (and bumper stickers) doesn't necessarily make it more holy. The Pharisees were always quoting scripture and going around making disciples - but in doing so, making them twice as ready for hell (sorry, I can't recall the exact wording, so I can't look up the exact verse).

Meanwhile, in the US, the Bible is the most widely published book, yet the least frequently read one (almost everybody has one, yet most of them are covered with dust).

Jesus said that not everyone who says "lord lord" will be saved, just those who do the will of the Father.
---StrongAxe on 6/29/09


Elder:

Virtually every generation considers itself more enlightened than the generations that went before it - and also the generations that come after it. Each generation is so eager to point out the sins of its parents (that it has evolved beyond), and the sins of its children (that it has not succumbed to), while at the same time, remaining blissfully in denial about its own sins.
---StrongAxe on 6/29/09


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Lanny, If a guy rose up out of the smoke,what other color would his suit be but black??
Did he levitate??
How did he cross the ocean,walk,fly or row boat???
Because of the curvature of the earth, do you know how high you would have to be to see NY and California at the same time???
So even after 30 years you couldn't see the end of this revelation????
---1st_cliff on 6/29/09


Cluny, you are proving yourself to be one of the dissemblers that come on CN. Your snide, bating comments to people like YLBD prove it and it doesn't help.
If you don't like the way YLBD writes/spells then don't read the posts.
I will start with the simple for you concerning the light of the USA by asking a question. What country has published/distributed as many printed copies of the Word of God or Gospel tracts than the USA?
Which country in this world has more Bible verses imbedded in their government buildings than the USA?
---Elder on 6/29/09


In other words, YLBD, you have no more idea what Elder meant by "the USA has been given more truth" than I, or apparently, he does.

I'm simply asking elder to explain his words.

BTW--writing clearly means thinking clearly. Learn to spell properly.
---Cluny on 6/28/09


cluny, you sound bitter because of a bunch of hillbilly's took America from the mighty Brits...lol

How about trying to understand ppl, instead trying to confuse ppl, whats writtin(e)
down can be under stood if u tri....

It's ok, everyone is about to get theres, None escape, yur either a Goat or a Lamb,
yu were either invited to the Marriage or yu snuk in, in which case yu will be tossed out when found(Posing/fronting/acting)...
YLBD
---YLBD on 6/28/09


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The simple answer is yes.
Over thirty years ago, I started receiving a series of revelations from the Lord concerning the judjment that would come if this nation did not repent. The final revelation was in the form of a vision. I saw the U.S. from a view point where I could see pillars of smoke rising from the entire country. Then out of the smoke, from the east coast, rose a man of great power and influence in a black suit. After rising from the smoke, he crossed over the Atlantic Ocean. His destination, however, could'nt be seen from my view point.
Repent of your sins and seek the Lord with all your heart, that you may escape the judjment to come.
---Lanny on 6/27/09


\\ Ah.... Cluny I see that you are a new comer to the world.
Stick around maybe you will see.
---Elder on 6/26/09\\

In other words, you can't answer my question about what "more truth" has been granted to the USA.
---Cluny on 6/27/09


1st Cliff:

The question was intended to generate thoughtful consideration of the issues, our decisions and our actions.

Both as individuals and as a nation, we seem to be far more concerned with the profitability or the expediency of our decisions and our actions than with their morality.

I am not a pessimistic person by nature, and as a Believer, I cannot be. However, it seems to me that most of what we do and say very rarely rise to the point of consciuosness where we consider their moral significance. It now seems quite accetable, even among those who claim the moral high ground, to defend an amoral position.
---Janze on 6/27/09


Ah.... Cluny I see that you are a new comer to the world.
Stick around maybe you will see.
---Elder on 6/26/09


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\\We are more sinful because we have been allowed to see more Truth.\\

Can you be specific about what "more Truth" the USA saw than Great Britain, for example, did?

Or is this just another example of American triumphalist hubris?

(And I'm an American.)
---Cluny on 6/26/09


Cliff asked,
"Janze, Are you saying America was less sinful when they embraced slavery, or hung witches,denied womens rights?
Cliff, your question is a thought provoker, for those who still think.
My answer would have to be, YES! At least, then we didn't murder millions of babies, drugs were not rampant and the personal attack on God Himself was no where as much. There was no presidential agenda to rid the country of its aged people and call it medical reform ect...
People are sinful. When the cup is full God will pour it out and clean it. You have to notice that it was the bible believers, not just bible readers, that corrected the problems you stated.
---Elder on 6/26/09


Ralph, thank you but we also see that your answers are right on also.
This country has received a wake up call from God. Yet most still sleep. We are in WW-III and can't see it.
When America stiffled Germany in WW-II, we cut into their energy supply. That helped stop them dead in their tracts. That very thing is going on today with America. The only difference is, it is our "elected" officials" that are attacking us.
Other countries are encouraged to seek Nuclear power and we are told to set up a big fan in our yard.
In his book, The Audacity of Hope, the writer said he would stand with the Muslims when it came down to a choice.
People are asleep. Maybe so they won't be called wrong for their errors in January.
---Elder on 6/26/09


Actually Europe is morally worse than the USA.However,we are speedily catching up and I think since most people have at least some religious and spiritual training in this country we have less excuse.Religion in the form of Christianity has been dead in Europe for a couple of hundred years.There giant churches are almost empty.They are not born again and few if any Spirit filled.The USA (in the majority) has turned it's back on God.In the midwest and South some still serve God but the no.is dwindling.
---shirley on 6/26/09


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Excellent answer Elder.
---ralph7477 on 6/26/09


Cluny,
I also raise that same point.

Leslie,
Isn't it rather that we are to bless All People? At least that is what I gather even from Matthew 5:38-48.

mima,
---Nana on 6/25/09


And just what makes the USA more sinful than, say, Peru or Canada?
---Cluny on 6/25/09
For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required, Luke 12:48b
Much light has been given to the USA. Now, this country has chosen darkness rather than light. It shall be judged accordingly.
We are more sinful because we have been allowed to see more Truth. Yet, our choice has became contrary to God's revealed will.
---Elder on 6/25/09


Good question Cluny! Americans ask this because they know only about American sin.
Unfortunately, Hollywood has seen to it that all the world knows about American sin! It's no suprise if people from other countries assume that hopping in and out of bed with various partners is typical American behavior! They seldom see an average,boring family in the movies.

But believe me, people of other nations engage in sinfullnes that is just as evil and possibly as widespread. (I almost mentioned some examples here, but thought better of it) In any case, God's judgement/punishment is for all the earth.
---Donna66 on 6/25/09


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God put the universe together and began the causal chain of events. So God is the one responsible for how things turn out. Read Ephesians 1:11.
---eric1968 on 6/25/09


Janze, Are you saying America was less sinful when they embraced slavery, or hung witches,denied womens rights etc...?
---1st_cliff on 6/25/09


And just what makes the USA more sinful than, say, Peru or Canada?
---Cluny on 6/25/09


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