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Fulfil Or Destroy The Law

What does the term "fulfil" mean in Matthew 5:17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to "fulfil"?

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 ---jerry6593 on 6/26/09
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Jesus Christ FULFILLED THE LAW, but most Christians preach that Jesus Christ DESTROYED THE LAW, even though they do not say it openly. They say, Jesus Christ has FULFILLED THE LAW so that WE DO NOT HAVE TO OBEY THE LAW. That is, what they really say is that Jesus Christ has DESTROYED THE LAW. They denounce the law saying it is works or legalism to obey the law. And say if we obey the law then we are of Satan. They call themselves Christians. It is tragic.
---Dave on 7/14/09


Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Don't stop at 5:17 Keep reading NOt one Jot which is like a comma or astereth or or tittle which makes an R an R and not a P shall in now wise pass till all be fulfilled. Everything is not fulfilled yet the end hasn't happend yet

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
---aaron_young on 7/14/09


*As I have told you repeatedly, I do not, nor have I ever judged anyone's fitness for heaven.

What MarkV probably posts is from the SDA literature, some of which condemns those that do not observe the OT Sabbath and they often brand ministers of other churches as being tools of Satan.

So as long as you wear the title of an SDA, people will not distinguish your view from the official voice that comes from your denomination.

It will always be like an albatross around your neck in your witness for Christ. Suggest that you find a church that sticks to the gospel message.
---Lee1538 on 7/14/09


MarkV: As I have told you repeatedly, I do not, nor have I ever judged anyone's fitness for heaven. Why must you keep repeating that lie? The Bible itself defines sin as the transgression of the Law, and the Ten Commandments as that law. If you feel that you are above the law, or somehow your belief in Jesus gives you license to sin, then just say so, and stop trying to pin your guilt on me. It is the Bible that condemns you - not me. If you don't like what the Bible says, take it up with God. I didn't write it.
---jerry6593 on 7/14/09


Covenant definition per Websters Dictionary:
1: a usually formal, solemn, and binding agreement : compact
2 a written agreement or promise usually under seal between two or more parties especially for the performance of some action

New Covenent definition per the Bible:

"For this is the covenent that I will make with the house of Israel after those days saith the Lord: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts, and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" Heb 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33

The New Cov is an agreement between God and us over the 10 CC, and the seal is the 4th, the Sabbath.
---Gina7 on 7/13/09




Jerry - *Do they excommunicate in your church?

I would have to check on that to be sure but I think that the procedure is there if seldom implemented.

However, those that present themselves for membership are examined by the elders in regard to their convictions.

Does your church excommunicate? They do indeed as there has been witch hunts resulting in purges among many SDA, particularly in the seminaries.

A good example of the purges within SDA is from a book by Dr. Jerrry Gladson,'A Theologian's Journey from 7th Day Adventism to Mainstream Christianity.

Hopefully one of the days, Christians in the SDA will again gain control.
---Lee1538 on 7/13/09


Lee: Do they excommunicate in your church?
---jerry6593 on 7/13/09


Jesus worked hardest on the Sabbath day, preaching in synagogues whilst he was allowed to. Then he was made less and less welcome. Probably because he once threw the money changers out of the temple. He is Lord of the Sabbath. His Father does not have a lot of time for our New Moons and Sabbaths, in fact, when they come before helping your neighbour, he detests them.
---frances008 on 7/13/09


Jerry, I do not judge you for worshipping on Saturday's. You can worship any day you want. I don't believe anyone here is saying you should do anything different. It is you who judge others by using a law that your denomination has establish from the Old Testament given to the those who were under the law. And you turn around and judge others for not believing what you believe. You say you are helping them from sin. But you are not helping anyone but condemning them for sinning against what you believe is true, and those others don't believe its true. Like I said worship God when you want. But when you judge others of their sin, you boast as though you don't sin. If you want to remain under the law, its ok with me. But we are under Grace.
---MarkV. on 7/13/09


MarkV. Jerry asked "Are you a Catholic?"

Bear in mind that if a barn is red and your toy wagon is also red, then your wagon has to be a barn.

Using their logic, if you do not observe the OT Sabbath, you must be a Roman Catholic.

Poor people, they really do not know either church history, particular the writings of the early saints nor the Scripture since they are totally incapable of pointing to at least one verse that commands or even suggest Sabbath obserance.
---Lee1538 on 7/12/09




Gina7 - *the New Covenant is an agreement with God revolving around all 10 commandments which stand together as one law.

If that were truly so, then why did not the writers of the New Testament epistles or the early church writers teach that the Gentile converts had to observe the Jewish Sabbath?

Of course, the early church saints did not have Ellen White, all they really had was the Old Testament and a scattering of NT letters as well as the Holy Spirit to guide them.

The silly belief that it was the Roman Church that changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday cannot be supported in the least by church historians - even SDA church historians.
---Lee1538 on 7/12/09


Sabbath keeping is NOT in the covenant of the church, one cannot be held accountable for not observing it. It is as simple as that. Ever bother to read Romans 14:5?
---Lee1538 on 7/7/09

The New Covenant was ratified by the body and blood of Jesus,when He died on the cross.
Nothing could be added to, or taken away from it, after that, otherwise it would constitute voiding the New Covenant. Hebrews 8:10 = New Covenant God writes His law in our hearts, and when Christ died, 7th day was the Sabbath. It still is the Sabbath. The New Covenenant is an agreement with God revolving around all 10 commandments which stand together as one law.
---Gina7 on 7/11/09


MarkV: "The only reason given in Scripture is when it concerns the church as a whole. If any brother or sister is in sin that is recognized by the church, the church leaders have a right to excommunicate them in order to save the others from the same sin."

That's not what MY Bible says. I gave you a scripture - James 5:20. It was not talking about the "church," but rather about individuals. Can you back up your claim with scripture? Are you a Catholic?
---jerry6593 on 7/11/09


MarkV: "Listen Jerry, the only reason I don't agree with you about the SDA's is that very reason. You judge others for not keeping Saturday Sabbath with your answers, but forget all the other sins you commit through the day. Judging others because by your standards of believes [sic]."

Mark, Please reread my posts below. I have never judged anyone "by the standards of my beliefs," although you seem to be judging me by yours. In fact, I have written that to judge another's fitness for heaven is blasphemy - the usurpation of God's authority. I will say it again very clearly: The Bible and the Bible only is our standard of beliefs! What is your standard? The "church?"
---jerry6593 on 7/11/09


To---Mark_Eaton here is an answer to your question about John 4:23,"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." The true worshipers are those who worship God in spirit(tongues) in truth(known languages). John 4:24 says,"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Standing by for flak from this answer!!! Right now I'm on my way to witness.
---mima on 7/9/09


I want to know from all the people who keep quoting John 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers" is:

What are you doing to worship Him in spirit?

If you are so concerned about what your deeds (hands/mouth/thoughts) are, can you truly be free? It is only when we realize that we have TRUE freedom (Gal 5:13) from sin/death/legalism can we worship Him in spirit. Otherwise, we view Him as the great taskmaster/jailor who holds all the keys and we must jump to His tune.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/9/09


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Samuel *Nope does not bother me. How about they do not mention building graven images.

Untrue since idolatry involves building graven images - see Gal. 5:19f.

While you certain cannot find anything in the New Covenant of the church that breaking the Jewish Sabbath is sinful, all the other commandments are found in one sense or another in the New Testament.

You ignore the fact that a covenant is a legally binding agreement and if something is NOT in the covenant, one cannot be held accountable for it. Thus you have to agree that since Sabbath keeping is NOT in the covenant of the church, one cannot be held accountable for not observing it. It is as simple as that. Ever bother to read Romans 14:5?
---Lee1538 on 7/7/09


Pierre - *Lee: You say that Paul came to the conclusion that what God ask us to do in terms of obeying the law is IMPOSSIBLE!

In the power of the flesh, obeying God totally is impossible.

Paul stated -

Ro 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.

Ro 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.

Notice Paul is speaking in the PRESENT TENSE.

If perfection could come by obeying the law, you would not need a Savior as you would merit your eternal life based upon obedience to law.

Perhaps you really do not recognize your own sinfulness?
---Lee1538 on 7/7/09


Lee1538: I would suggest that in Rom 8:1-4 Paul gives us the proper relationship between law and grace-and provides the solution to his statement foud in Rom 6:14 that we are no longer under the condemntion of the law of sin and death, God's grace has set us free from the CONDEMNATION OF THE LAW. But we now live so that the righteous
requirements of the law might be fulfilled in us --not to be saved, but in love and gratitude that we HAVE BEEN saved.
The problem is not with the law. It is with our sinful nature. Paul is clear that grace does not do away with the law. Rom 7:7-8 and Rom 6:15
---Pierre on 7/7/09


There are lists of sins found in Mk. 7:21f, Romans 1:29f, Gal. 5:19f, and 2 Tim. 3:1f and it must really bother the SDA that breaking the Sabbath commandent is not among those listed.

And you cannot find it as a violation in any other part of the New Covenant of the church. Lee1538

Nope does not bother me. How about they do not mention building graven images? Blasphemy is mentioned but it is not defined unless you go back to the Ten commandmnets. But since you say they are gone you cannot use them. So by your stamtment the 2nd, third and fourth commandment are no longer in effect.
---Samuel on 7/7/09


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So many christians have the wool pulled over thier eyes. Paul warned that YHVH would send a strong delusions so that people would believe a lie because you have changed the incorruptible God into the form of a corruptable man, which is exactly what christians have done. And they have negated the law even though the man they call God tells them the opposite!!!!!!!!!!!!
---wayne on 7/7/09


Romans 8:1 There is therefore no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

And what is meant by 'the law of sin & death', being that the power of sin lies in the law? 1 Cor. 15:56

Either one is or is not in Christ. If one is in Christ he or she will exhibit the fruits of the Spirit "against such is no law".Gal. 5:22f
---Lee1538 on 7/7/09


Pierce, you do not realize what the purpose of the law really was nor do you really know why God provided a Savior for us.

Ro 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit.

Ga 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.

Acts 15:10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

All we can ever be is sinners saved by grace thru faith in the One whom we have come to believe.
---Lee1538 on 7/7/09


jerry6593,
I absolutely agree with your position. God is not divided, we are. Take for example the little diddy Lee1538 posted about Romans 7. If we would turn the page to chapter 8 he would see... that it ties to 7 with "There is therefore", and he continues to speak about the Spirit, Holy remedy to sin! No dichotomy here for our Lord did say beforehand, John 4:23: "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
---Nana on 7/6/09


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* If any brother or sister is in sin that is recognized by the church, the church leaders have a right to excommunicate them in order to save the others from the same sin.

While true the church needs to point to the Scripture to show that the deviant is indeed committing a sin.

There are lists of sins found in Mk. 7:21f, Romans 1:29f, Gal. 5:19f, and 2 Tim. 3:1f and it must really bother the SDA that breaking the Sabbath commandent is not among those listed.

And you cannot find it as a violation in any other part of the New Covenant of the church.
---Lee1538 on 7/6/09


Jerry, that is not happening here. I said that before, if a brother or sister is in sin, any brother or sister has a right to help. But they do not have a right to judge another brother or sister.
The only reason given in Scripture is when it concerns the church as a whole. If any brother or sister is in sin that is recognized by the church, the church leaders have a right to excommunicate them in order to save the others from the same sin.
Listen Jerry, the only reason I don't agree with you about the SDA's is that very reason. You judge others for not keeping Saturday Sabbath with your answers, but forget all the other sins you commit through the day. Judging others because by your standards of believes.
---MarkV. on 7/6/09


Nana: Of course the dichotomy is only apparent. But most here take only one of the two possible meanings without seeking the reconciliation of the deeper, underlying meaning. Don't you agree?
---jerry6593 on 7/6/09


MarkV: "When you tell another brother or sister in Christ that if he sins he goes to hell as Anne does all the time, you are juging the other by your standards, and implying you don't sin."

Not quite. If I judge another's fitness for salvation, I am indeed usurping the authority of God. If I point another to the scripture that says "the soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Eze 18:4), then I am in harmony with God's will, since:

Jas 5:20 ... he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Notice that the standard of judgement is the Bible - not someone else's opinion, and the motive is another's salvation - not self-aggrandizement.
---jerry6593 on 7/6/09


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Lee: You say that Paul came to the conclusion that what God ask us to do in terms of obeyig the law is IMPOSSIBLE!

I dont think so! That would play right in the devils hand, for he accuses the God Co, of seting requirements whch we cannot achieve.

Rather Paul ask the queston:"Who will deliver me from this terrible situation?"

The aswer: Jesus!
That's why we can say confidently: I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me!
---Pierre5358 on 7/5/09


Can one truly obey all the law requires? Does God enable us to do so, or has He provided a Savior for us?

Even Paul acknowledged he could not obey all that the law required.

Romans 7:14f

'I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good.
So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me'.
---Lee1538 on 7/4/09


Pierre - In theory, those who walk by the Spirit will fulfill the requirements of the law.

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

However, there is a continuous conflict between flesh & the Spirit.

7:22-23 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
---Jamison on 7/4/09


To "fulfill" means to put in practice, to show us that what the Lord requires of us is NOT TOO DIFFICUT to do, that it is FAIR not cruel like so many think. Of course it is only throgh Christ that we can obey the law and only as a means of saying thank you to Him for showing us THE WAY!
---Pierre on 7/4/09


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jerry6593,
If there be a dichotomy, it lies not with God. God have been teaching mankind who he is, who we are, and who we should be in him and how should we seek him. Proverbs 22:6 and 29:5, God has taken into consideration with us, he has set tutors to raise us upright into men and women seeking unto the image of Christ, 1 John 2:6 declare it. A dichotomy is a house divided. external, internal, love God, love Neighbour, flesh and blood: offered to us men while Jesus walked the Earth, John 6:56, Holy remedy!
---Nana on 7/4/09


Nana, I believe every genuine believer has problems with sin, unless you are sinless. And scripture speaks against you. When you tell another brother or sister in Christ that if he sins he goes to hell as Anne does all the time, you are juging the other by your standards, and implying you don't sin. Every single person save stuggles with sin. If we had no sin, we would not need to depend on God anymore. But we do because we struggle in every part of our bodies. You have the right to help others but never the right to condemn, since you are a sinner yourself. It only shows your self righteous behavior as the Pharisees. Look good on the outside (very holy) and corrupt in the inside. Remove the two by four from your eye.
---Mark_V. on 7/4/09


Nana: Thanks for the tip. I did the search, and it did provide useful insights. But it appears that there still resides this dichotomy of concepts between "loving my neighbor" and "Christ's shed blood" as both fulfilling the Law. Like most things biblical, I suspect that there is a deeper meaning. My love for my neighbor is useless unless it is motivated by Christ within. Then it fulfills the spirit of the Law. Similarly, Christ's blood is useless to me unless I apropriate it (with confession and repentance) to my own sin. Then, His sacrifice fulfills the penalty of the law ("without blood there is no remission of sin), and the letter thereof.
---jerry6593 on 7/4/09


Many of the earliest Christians were of the lower economic and social classes. Some were even slaves. Can you picture a slave asking his master, 'boss guy, I need Saturday off for religious reasons'?Laugh, laugh!!!

Saturday was a normal workday in much of the Roman Empire, and common sense would tell us that there would have been no realistic way the early church could have insisted upon the observance of the OT sabbath in the Gentile world.

Furthermore church historians found that the Gentile church by the end of the first century did not observe the OT sabbath.

It is true that there were pockets of Jewish converts to the Christian faith that continue to observe all the laws of Moses.
---Lee1538 on 7/3/09


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jerry6593,
If you do a Google search for: Does (Your) Love fulfill the law?, you will find some good insights into what this other fellow Lording over you like a fly is missing in that which he affirms.
---Nana on 7/3/09


*Not only must I not commit adultery, I must also not lust: Not only must I not kill, but I also must also not get angry at my brother without cause.

True if you violate any moral law found in the Decalogue or elsewhere, there will be consequences. However, what happens if you have communal worship on Sundays, the Lord's Day instead of the Jewish Sabbath? If you answered nothing, you got the right answer.

The Sabbath was made for man meaning that we truly need to rest 1 days in 7 from our labors but the Christian Sabbath has replaced the OT Sabbath.

Church historians tell us the early church was composed of lower economic and social class people, and Saturday was considered a workday outside of the Jewish environment.
---Lee1538 on 7/3/09


Catherine: You speak the truth. Jesus did not come to lower the bar by chopping off some of the Commandments. He raised the bar! Not only must I not commit adultery, I must also not lust: Not only must I not kill, but I also must also not get angry at my brother without cause.
---jerry6593 on 7/3/09


catherine - *The Ten Commandments are still enforced today and are written across every believer's heart, my friend. .

Partial true, but you will NOT find a single witness in the early Gentile church that observed the OT sabbath.

In fact they wrote against it, calling Saturday just another work day. However, they did not have the Bible or Ellen White's interpretation to guide them, all they had was the Holy Spirit.

So sorry but anyone that has eyes that can see, will see that Christians observe the Christian Sabbath - Sunday, the Lord's day.

It is only those that are the children of Hagar (ever read Galatians 4?)that believe they became Jewish when they became Christians.
---Lee1538 on 7/2/09


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"The problem you and everyone has is that even when Christ is in you, you still sin."
MarkV. on 7/2/09

1 John 3:9-10: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
1 John 3:6: "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
Who is it that has a problem?
---Nana on 7/3/09


In studying sometime back, Jesus came to make the law more powerful. The Ten Commandments are still enforced today and are written across every believer's heart, my friend.
---catherine on 7/2/09


Jerry, I will answer you here from the other blog. You ask me two questions. I do not believe in all that Lee believes. I answer to the blog and if we agree great if not then I move on. As for the second question, the Sabbath is not part of the New Covenant. It was a part of the Old Covenant of Works.
Now to you it is sin to not worship on Saturday's. That is great and you cannot go against conscience since going against conscience is sin even when it is not sin.
I don't believe it is a part of the New Covenant so to my conscience it is not sin for me to worship any day possible yet Sunday to me and many others is considered the Lords Day, Christ resurrection, since we are under the New Covenant of Grace.
---MarkV. on 7/2/09


You do realize that you are self-contradictory, don't you?
---jerry6593 on 7/2/09

Not in the least contradictory as the Covenant of the church essentially replaced the old Sinaitic Covenant. Hebrews 13.

It is much like having a reflector on your horse buggy. If you have neither a horse nor a buggy, the law cannot apply to you.

You continue to fail to understand that the church is under the New Covenant and not the Old and whatever is NOT in the new covenant is not applicable to the Christian.
---Lee1538 on 7/2/09


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Lee: ".... if you so much as break any of His laws, not matter how small or insignificant they may be, you will be found guilty of breaking all of them. ....

Fortunately we do not have to be concerned at all of breaking laws that are not applicable to the New Covenant

You do realize that you are self-contradictory, don't you?
---jerry6593 on 7/2/09


Jerry, you might keep the Ten Commandments but you don't keep all of the laws. For you are a sinner like everyone else.

"The death of Christ on the Cross was the perfect sacrifice, He did not sin, and who was able to keep all of the law. If one person could accomplish that feat he wouldn't need Christ. And no one can."
The problem you and everyone has is that even when Christ is in you, you still sin.
You want to sound as if you keep all the laws and in turn you are accomplishing the law by your works in order to be saved. But all come short of the glory of God, no matter how sinless you might think you are, sin is still found in you. And Sin is the breaking of the law.
---MarkV. on 7/2/09


Samuel - *GOD gave Ten commandments the first four deal with love of GOD. The last six deal with love of others.

Very simplistic thinking!

Have you ever considered the fact that the 10 commandments are really the Old Covenant (Ex.34:28, Dt. 4:12) and that the Old Covenant was replaced by the New, Jesus being the mediator of a much better covenant (Hebr. 9:15, 12:24)?

And that whatever is not in the New Covenant of the church is not applicable to the Christian nor can he be held accountable for such things as the Levitical dietary laws, and the OT Sabbath?

Do you reject Romans 13:9 that love of neighbor is the fulfillment of the law? What has the Sabbath to do with love of neighbor?
---Lee1538 on 7/1/09


*It is only the works done by Christ in me that are of any merit. "I can do ALL things through Christ which strengtheneth me" (Phil 4:13) - even keep His Commandments. But the sin I occasionally do, that's ALL mine.

True, however, if you so much as break any of His laws, not matter how small or insignificant they may be, you will be found guilty of breaking all of them.

James 2:10HCSB For whoever keeps the entire law, yet fails in one point, is guilty of breaking it all.

Fortunately we do not have to be concerned at all of breaking laws that are not applicable to the New Covenant of the church, such laws that are strictly Jewish in nature such as the OT Sabbath & Levitical dietary laws.
---Lee1538 on 7/1/09


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To love the LORD your GOD with all your heart, mind and Strength is missing Lee. It is our Love of GOD that enables us to love others. It is GOD's love in us that give us power to do right.

GOD gave Ten commandments the first four deal with love of GOD. The last six deal with love of others.

JESUS was quoting the books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus on the two great laws.
---Samuel on 7/1/09


What a man says he can and can't do is irrelevant to what he DOes. Matthew 25:31-46 describes two groups of people separated by the Lord. Each one in turn repply to the Lord, "Lord, when saw we thee ...". There you have it. All this "Imputing" sounds like "Rasputin"...
---Nana on 7/1/09


MarkV: I agree. It is only the works done by Christ in me that are of any merit. "I can do ALL things through Christ which strengtheneth me" (Phil 4:13) - even keep His Commandments. But the sin I occasionally do, that's ALL mine.
---jerry6593 on 7/1/09


Jesus was saying that he was the messiah,the son of God fulling the prophecy in the OT about the annointed one ,the lamb of God,that would come and save his people.
---tom2 on 6/30/09


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SuzieH~ You provided some excellent scripture here. I notice you are one of the few to provide abundant scripture, rather than mere words. Thanks and God bless.
---Anne on 6/30/09


You ask what the term 'fulfill' means in Matthew 5:17?

Scripture should always be interpreted by Scripture.

Since Christ is addressing the law in Mt. 5:17, and since it was God who so loved the world that He gave us His only begotten son (Jn. 3:16), we can surmise that He fulfilled the law in showing His love towards us at the Cross.

Galatians 5:13 For the entire law is fulfilled in one statement: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

So if we truly do that, what can be lacking?
---Lee1538 on 6/30/09


Jerry - more likely heavenly beings would point you to what the Spirit of Christ says in -

Ro 4:14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.

Keep on trucking up that slippery pole Jerry, who knows you might succeed while everyone else who walks by faith will simply be welcomed into the marriage supper of the lamb because of what Christ has done for them.

The Christian walk starts & ends with faith and that is what Romans 1:17 basically states.
---Lee1538 on 6/30/09


Pharisee/Jerry/ Joseph, those were great examples given by you. I don't think people realize the state they are in. They have righteousness but righteousness of Christ. It did not come from them. The death of Christ on the Cross was the perfect sacrifice, He did not sin, and who was able to keep all of the law. If one person could accomplish that feat he wouldn't need Christ. And no one can.
---MarkV. on 6/30/09


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I agree with the answer given by---Pharisee
---mima on 6/30/09


"then why isn't it fulfilled when I keep it..."

Where in the world did you get the idea that you keep the law? Oh yeah you may keep the ten commands perfectly but so did the Pharisees and scribes Jesus condemned.

The problem with the ten commands is they lead people to do the minimum, it's like a speed limit, but there's way more to being a good driver then observing the limit. No one can be saved by the observance of the Ten commandments, and the problem with trying to is that you sacrifice the grace God could give you if you didn't try to burn your name in his book with your own holy fire. If your righteousness is not from Jesus Christ and what he did you can't be saved.
---Pharisee on 6/29/09


The whole counsel of scripture must be taken into account, the Bible says that a Cristian is "the righteousness of God in him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)
Yet Christians still sin. Anyone claiming they don't sin doesn't know God. (1 John 1:8) So no one fulfills the law, no one can because to be guilty of breaking one point and keeping all the rest of it is to break all of it. (James 2:10)
The righteousness of God doesn't sin because no sin will be tallied against it. Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 that a believer's works will be judged not the believer. If you want to be measured by the law be my guest, I'll be found in him and be saved, not by what I do, but by what he did, that alone is gospel
---Pharisee on 6/29/09


If the law could be fulfilled by keeping it, then why isn't it fulfilled when I keep it (I haven't killed anyone)? And if Jesus could have fulfilled the law by merely keeping it perfectly (as He did), then why did He have to die on the cross? Because to fulfill the law is to pay the penalty for its transgression, and ONLY His blood sacrifice is a good enough payment.

Heb 9:22... without shedding of blood is no remission.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
---jerry6593 on 6/29/09


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Every man must be persuaded in his own mind concerning this subject. I for one know "that the law [is] good, if a man use it lawfully (properly)," not as a means to condemn, but rather instruct. "I delight in the law of God after the inward man: Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless.." and for that I am truly thankful, for [man] would "not have known sin, but by the law:" And this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. Love fulfills the law for the benefit everyone, and if one stops, and thinks about the law, it simply instructs us not to do to someone else, something we would not want done to us. How burdensome is that?
---joseph on 6/29/09


It appears many of you miss the whole point of God's spirit being poured out to us. IF you truly have the spirit, you won't want to do wrong. I would rather not kill someone because it isn't my nature to kill, I don't want to kill, rather than because it is a law. The scriptures are clear - those who live by the spirit are not under the law. Period. IF you don't have the spirit, or you don't live by the spirit, then maybe YOU need the law. But I DON'T need the law. I live by the spirit. IF you have the spirit, you are actually under a HIGHER STANDARD than the law.
---Gary on 6/28/09


If the Ten Commandments had been nailed to the cross,
then Adultery would no longer be listed as a sin, or Idolatry etc.

Adulterers: 1Cor 6:9, Heb 13:4, Jam 4:4
Adulteress: Rom 7:3
Adulteresses: Jam 4:4
Adultery: Rom 2:22, Rom 13:9, Gal 5:19, Jam 2:11, 2Pet 2:14, Rev 2:22

Idolater: 1Cor 5:11, Eph 5:5
Idolaters: 1Cor 5:10, 1Cor 6:9, 1Cor 10:7, Rev 21:8, Rev 22:15
Idolatries: 1Pet 4:3
Idolatry: Acts 17:16, 1Cor 10:14, Gal 5:20, Col 3:5

Heb 12:15
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God,
lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you,
and thereby many be defiled,

1Co 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God,
him shall God destroy...
---SuzieH on 6/27/09


Rom 7:2-3
"For the woman which hath an husband
is bound by the law to her husband...

So then if, while her husband liveth,
she be married to another man,
she shall be called an adulteress"

We can clearly see that scripture says she is bound by the law.
What law is she bound by? Thou shalt not commit adultery.
If she breaks that law what is she called? An adulteress.

2 Peter 2
...For it had been better for them
not to have known the way of righteousness,
than, after they have known it,to turn
from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb...
---SuzieH on 6/28/09


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Cliff: I like your analogy of the stop sign. I've used it myself on occasion. I once got a ticket for running a stop sign. I had to pay a fine. My Father paid it for me. The penalty was fulfilled, but the stop signs are still there. The penalty is also still there if I choose to disobey the law again.

Remember, Jesus not only said "neither do I condemn you," but He also said "GO AND SIN NO MORE."
---jerry6593 on 6/27/09


from the garden when God spoke to eve God planned for his sons arrival,thru thr hebrews and the house of david a direct descendant listed in the OT.once jesus died it was finished,and when he rose the salvation by grace through faith in him started.
---tom2 on 6/27/09


Fulfill in that scripture means that He (Jesus) completed it by how He lived and what He did on the cross (it is finished). It does NOT mean that the law is done away with, but that it was completely fulfilled by Jesus (He NEVER broke one law, but kept them ALL).
---Leslie on 6/27/09


Lee: Continuing from the last blog on this subject, you wrote:

"Jerry *As one who teaches men to disobey the Ten Commandment Law, have you considered what the heavenly beings might be saying about you? .... How many dozens of times have I quoted Romans 13:9?"

How many dozens of times have I pointed out that Rom 13:9 says nothing about abolishing the Law, but rather affirms it and summarizes the "neighbor" part of it by QUOTING FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT (Lev 19:8).

What heavenly beings might say about me:

Mat 5:19 ... whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
---jerry6593 on 6/27/09


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Cliff's analogy is brand new to me but I really like it!!!
---mima on 6/27/09


Gary,
AMEN
---duane on 6/27/09


Gary ... So now we don't have to refrain from murder, adultery, stealing, lusting, lying.

We are free to worship other gods.

Because the law is "over with"

Right, let's roll!!

Does this doctrine go with OSAS?
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/27/09


Jesus did not destroy the law, He completed it - He brought it to completion. Remember, the word here is "fulfil" and is talking about the law. Today, we legally fulfil a contract by completing all its terms. Once the contract is fulfilled, it ends. If you hire a contractor to build a patio, once he completes the job, he has fulfilled the contract. He doesn't continue building something that is finished. We don't say that the contractor set an example for us, and that now we should do the same thing. He brought the project to a completion. It is done. Over with. There is no more. Period.
---Gary on 6/26/09


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On this subject I always think of a "stop" sign at an intersection.
Once you have approached it and come to a full stop..the law has been fulfilled and the sign, altho it is still there and still says "stop" no longer applies and you are free to go!
The difference is ,in traffic law, this is not a "one-time thing" It applies every time!
---cliff on 6/26/09


Jesus fulfilled the law, that is to say he kept the law. This keeping the law by Jesus showed his righteousness(the Man part of Jesus being made righteous by keeping the law) to the world. Now because you and I get Jesus' righteousness imputed to us (our salvation) his law keeping(fulfilling the law) is imputed to us.
there by destorying the law being held against us.
Pease study this scripture. Colossians 2:14

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,"

The ordinance is the law with was against us(all law including the 10 Commandments) and it was mailed to his cross!!!! Thank you Jesus !!!!!!!
---mima on 6/26/09


Fulfill

G4137

play-ro'-o
From G4134, to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

(Strong's Hebrew and Greek dictionary)
---helper on 6/26/09


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