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Did Life Slowly Evolve

Was this earth and all life in it created within a week, or did it slowly evolve into that which we see today?

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 ---jerry6593 on 6/29/09
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2) StrongAxe cont. and p. 321 The impossibility of gradual functional transformation is virtually self-evident in the case of proteins: mere causal observation reveals that a protein is an interacting whole, the function of every amino acid being more or less (like letters in a sentence or cogwheels is in a watch) essential to the function of the entire system. To change, for example, the shape and function of the active site (like changing the verb in a sentence or an important cogwheel in a watch) in isolation throughout the molecule, destabilizing the whole system and rendering in useless.
---Warwick on 7/12/09


Dinosaur is a word invented by Richard Owen, it is not in the Bible. ALthough they were supposed to have been around during the times of the early humans, the Old and New Testament, somehow forgot to mention them. Pretty big things to just forget about like that. Conclusion: dinosaurs were not invented until after the Bible was already printed.
---frances008 on 7/12/09


Creation was finished in six literal days.

However it was not exactly like what we see today. It was better.

The earth was under 2x as much pressure due to a ice covering in the outer atmosphere. 2x the pressure on earth cause life to grow bigger and stronger and live longer.

The ice covering collaspe as part of Noah's flood. (gen 7,11)

This is why we see a decrease in life spans after the flood.

"Dinosaurs" were created during the 6-day creation and coexisted with man before and after the flood. There is scriptural evidence to prove such. (gen 1:25, job 40:15-19)

The question is, will you believe what science books teaches you and what Elohim's book has told you?
---Meira on 7/12/09


Trav:

Genesis 1:1:
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and THE EARTH" (HA-ARETZ)
Presumably, the whole Earth, not just the land or one country.
---StrongAxe on 7/10/09
Surprisingly, however, we never find the form ha'eretz, rather only ha'aretz. In other words, after definite article "the," we find the pausal form even where it doesn't seem to belong. In terms of meaning, the biblical eretz and aretz are identical. They both can refer to any land at all, so can ha'aretz in the Bible.

Somewhere along the line, though, the pausal form came to mean only Israel, that is, "The Land," while the ordinary forms eretz and ha'eretz assumed the more general meaning of "land."
---Trav on 7/12/09


Trav, Scripture also fails to mention that Noah slept, that he wore clothes, etc, however it is reasonable to assume he did.
What I proposed was a possible explanation of how the large dinosaurs could be carried upon the ark.
---Warwick on 7/11/09

Nice try...but, won't fly. This is the same logic evolutionist try to inject. Scripture makes note of anything that would affect his people. Dinosaurs...who would eventually die anyway following your plan are not mentioned....they were not necessary for life....as were the seven edible kinds and THE FOOD for all animals.
Your doctrine builds upon lies. As least mine is in scripture using the original language.....
---Trav on 7/12/09




Trav:
What do you do with the following scripture? Ignore it?

Gen 7:19-21 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the erets(land,country), and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits ...and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the erets,(land,Country), and every man:
---jerry6593 on 7/11/09

Erets, meant land,country. It would have taken 20 boats,with primitive tools to take your Polar Bears, Giant Sloths and all the other non extinct animals....and food if you didn't catch that part. Ask the "Only" one that knows for proof truth. I did.
---Trav on 7/12/09


Trav God's record shows He repeatedly told us it was world-wide.

See Genesis ch. 8:
---Warwick on 7/10/09

It's ironic that you would never undermine or add too GODs word....but, Dinosaur eggs.
Anyway...you know or should that "men" translated this word we use....and they didn't know the world was round until a few hundred years ago.
The Bible is exactly what were intended to have from GOD. Searchers, seek,ask and knock. Scoffers, use logic,worldly wisdom for their interpretation.

Adam's kind that was punished....Noah was the only one left...perfect in his Generations.
His line was started anew. Scripture plainly tells it.
---Trav on 7/12/09


depends,on whether your faith is in God,or science,whether your a believer,or lost.
---tom2 on 7/12/09


Can any of my evolutionist friends tell me where the precursors to the Cambrian life forms came from?
---jerry6593 on 7/12/09


1) StrongAxe there is no living thing which is simple.

Some years ago I met Dr Michael Denton (expert Molecular Biologist) who wrote Evolution: A theory in Crisis He is not a Christian. He believes evolution has occurred but says it is not proven, far from it!

On p. 264 he wrote 'The complexity of the simplest known type of cell is so great that it is impossible to accept that such an object could have been thrown together suddenly by some kind of freakish, vastly improbable, event. Such an occurrence would be indistinguishable from a miracle.'
---Warwick on 7/12/09




Thanks for your response, StrongAxe. So we have only Down's Syndrome and some viruses or diseases, where information is accidentally repeated or gone wrong. So mutations are negative in effect, not positive. So we cannot evolve by genetic mutation. Thank you.
---frances008 on 7/12/09


Trav, Scripture also fails to mention that Noah slept, that he wore clothes, etc, however it is reasonable to assume he did.

What I proposed was a possible explanation of how the large dinosaurs could be carried upon the ark. I believe they were, as the historical record shows they existed post flood.

Interestingly most varieties of dinosaur were quite small, some the size of chickens.
---Warwick on 7/11/09


Trav: "6-8 Civilizations march right through the flood period without break"

That's your "absolute, physical proofs of pre-Adamites and a limited flood?" Perhaps you should look up the definitions of "absolute" and "physical."

What do you do with the following scripture? Ignore it?

Gen 7:19-21 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth, and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail, and the mountains were covered. And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:



---jerry6593 on 7/11/09


Trav God's record shows He repeatedly told us it was world-wide.

See Genesis ch. 8:

'I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.'
' the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered.'
This alone disproves a local flood.
'Every living thing that moved on the earth perished.'
'All creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.' perished.
'Everything on dry land..died.'
'Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out.'
'Only Noah was left and those with him on the ark.'

Do you imagine God didn't know what constituted the whole earth, entire heavens, all creatures, dry land, all mankind?
---Warwick on 7/10/09


...don't believe the ark would accommodate the biggest dinosaurs. clue may be in size of dino eggs. T-Rex egg is about size of football. hatchlings were small. If dinosaurs were slow growing as are reptiles, it is unlikely a year old Rex would be large. It would make more sense to take such juveniles as their purpose was to breed and repopulate post-flood. Granddads were probably past it for this purpose.
---7/10/09

Here is some more theory's adding .....what is not in scripture.
---Trav on 7/10/09


Trav:

Genesis 1:1:
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and THE EARTH" (HA-ARETZ)
Presumably, the whole Earth, not just the land or one country.

Warwick:

Several months ago, I saw a video that described the marvellously complex flagellum (the tail that propels certain microscopic organisms) - which is totally non-functional if any of its pieces are missing. However, there is a strikingly similar structure in simpler creatures that has a totally different purpose.

And as I mentioned earlier, there is the intricate bone structure that transmits sounds from the eardrum to the inner ear - in reptiles, which rely more on other senses than hearing, these same bones are part of the jaw.
---StrongAxe on 7/10/09


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offer up some of those "absolute, physical proofs of pre-Adamites and a limited flood?

If you can't provide some proof, then those remarks apply to you.
---jerry6593 on 7/6/09

Challenge awareness ....I offer it ...you don't look...it's on you.

Starting with flood.
Hebrew word: Erets = land 1,476 times,country 140 times. Not "whole" world.
6-8 Civilizations march right through the flood period without break. if they can record it...why weren't they killed? Phonecians, Africans,chinese,Indians...Eygptians etc.
There was a Flood. It wiped out Adamites....except for Noah. Who remained perfect in his Generations.
---Trav on 7/10/09


StrongAxe can you give an example of a 'simpler' organ which came about by mutation?

Or can you offer a scenario to describe how this could happen?
---Warwick on 7/9/09


Genesis 1:1-2:3 says six days. I would have to take Gods' word on this *1.
Archbishop James Ussher put creation at 4004 BC. The Jewish calendar says 3760 B.C. was the year. I don't know what you would do with the theory that says the earth once had a concentric orbit of 360 days.
*1 Numbers 23:19, 1Samuel 15:29, Ecclesiastes 3:14, Malachi 3:6. Also, Matthew 28:18, John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:8.
---Glenn on 7/8/09


davidjamesrinaldo:

It isn't "partially formed" organs being useless until the last piece falls into place. Rather, it is simpler organs with one function gaining an extra piece and suddenly finding themselves more useful doing something else. For example, a series of skull bones are jaw bones in lizards, but inner ear bones in mammals.

We find similar kinds of serendipity in real life. For example, Pfizer was developing a drug for heart patients, but during clinical trials, many men who were using it reported a strange side effect - erections. So they changed the drug's purpose, and a mediocre heart drug with an annoying side-effect became Viagra, a cure for erectile dysfunction that people have sought for millenia.
---StrongAxe on 7/8/09


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frances008:

Yes. Down's Syndrome is an example of a genetic copying error - chromosomes #21 in the egg or sperm gets duplicated, giving 3 copies instead of the usual 2. There are other syndromes caused by similar duplications (some of which produce living but malformed children, and some of which produce stillbirths).

Other errors can happen when a carbon-14 atom is used in a base-pair and it decays to nitrogen (as I mentioned with skin cancer). Most such mutations affect only one cell (unless they become cancerous), but if they occur in a fetus they can affect entire organs or systems - and if they occur in an egg or sperm, they will be passed down to future generations.
---StrongAxe on 7/7/09


A Christian should believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. Therefore, since Scripture says that God spoke creation into existence, that's where we begin. Evolution is impossible as we learn from honest biologists/scientists. There is absolutely no evidence of evolution in all the skeletal remains discovered in the earth's crust! No evidence! It's a fairy tale, as some honest biologists have discovered after years of research. What reason would organs of creatures be developing by themselves? How does a partially evolved organ function for millions of years, while it awaits being perfected? What about the mind of man, the greatest invisible power on earth? Evolve? It's all a big joke!
---davidjamesrinaldo on 7/7/09


StrongAxe I have witnessed scientists trying to answer this question and it leaves them speechless or they come back later saying 'Down's Syndrome' (which is not a case of new information but a case of repitition of information by accident. Deformities sadly do happen, but they do not get passed down the gene line so consistently that it completely causes a whole new species. In cases like Down's syndrome, if two parents with it married and had kids they would be no more likely than anyone else to have a Down's Syndrome child.
---frances008 on 7/6/09


StrongAxe, you wrote 'Most changes are detrimental, but rarely such a change may be beneficial, and if passed on, may improve the survivability of the children.'

This is correct but of course does not give support to naturalistic evolution which needs extremely large amounts of new, specific genetic information to arise by natural processes.

As someone wrote, how could the eye arise by blind chance?
---Warwick on 7/7/09


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Maybe We could learn from the mistakes of Adam and Eve!
---Carla3939 on 7/7/09


Warwick:

I am not saying a sun is necessary for day - just for a day AS WE UNDERSTAND IT, since all days we have ever experienced involved a sun.

One could easily a situation with a huge blob of light in one place that isn't a sun yet, or earth covered with a cloud layer so that one could not see a sun, and sunlight seems to come from everywhere. One could imagine any number of other similar scenarios.

However, these would all be matters of personal conjecture, and it would be erroneous to dogmatically state "this is how it was". The simple fact is God told us the first three days were, but didn't get into specific details of just HOW they were measured. I guess he didn't think it was that important for us to know.
---StrongAxe on 7/6/09


frances008:

DNA is copied from parent to child and cell to cell. Copies are reliable but not perfect. This is why children sometimes have deformities - these can sometimes affect subsequent generations if they happen in reproductive cells.

Sometimes a base-pair changes to another. Sometimes pieces get interchanged. Occasionally, DNA from other sources (like viruses) may get incorporated.

In most cases, a single base pair change is not terribly significant. Once in a while, however, it is (UV rays mutating skin cells in one of about half a dozen base pairs will make them cancerous). Most changes are detrimental, but rarely such a change may be beneficial, and if passed on, may improve the survivability of the children.
---StrongAxe on 7/6/09


I will say that between creation of the Universe and the six day creation on earth that I believe a long time passed. We do not know how long.

But that the six days of creation are days as we know it now is based not only on Genesis but on exodus 20 in the Ten Commandments. Six days were for work. If three of those six days were thousands of years then it would not be six day. GOD rested on the seventh day. It was set aside in Genesis and repeated and verified in Exodus 29 and in Deuteronomy. So yes GOD said it was done in six days.
---Samuel on 7/6/09


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StrongAxe you & few others keep on with the idea the sun is needed to create a day. Wrong, what is necessary is light, shining upon a rotating earth. It is an inescapable fact that God created light on day one which He says created evening & morning, night & day, the cycle which continued right through the next 5 creation days, and has continued to the present.

In saying the sun is necessary to light the earth you are saying God's created light was not sufficient to light the earth. You are therefore saying God does not have the power to light the earth without the sun. Not my God!

Your idea is contrary to Scripture, grammar, and logic. Not a position of faith in God but a position of faith in man's speculations.
---Warwick on 7/6/09


Trav: "The question is foolish. ... There are many physical proofs of pre Adamites and older Earth. Just as there are absolute proofs of a Limited Flood account. Doctrines won't allow either...so they shut out complete truth. Wallowing in ignorance."

Rather than calling the question "foolish," and ranting that we Bible believers are "wallowing in ignorance," why don't you offer up some of those "absolute, physical proofs of pre-Adamites and a limited flood? All you have given so far is some unflattering OPINION. WHERE'S THE PROOF? If you can't provide some proof, then those remarks apply to you.
---jerry6593 on 7/6/09


Evolution is impossible because your DNA has information in it from your parents. No new information can enter your DNA. How could any animal gradually, or speedily, turn into any other animal through a natural process of reproduction. In an evil institution in Newcastle, UK, they are trying to breed a half human half animal under lab conditions. I don't think, even doing it on purpose it is possible. Though such experiments could account for strange lifeforms found in sewers these days.
---frances008 on 7/5/09


Adetunji:

Once again, instead of saying "God has declared it to us". please state
1) The chapter and verse where God declares just how long a day is, and
2) How this declaration applies to the length of the first three days of creation.
Not your opinion, not my opinion, but chapter and verse from God's revelation please.

A day has always been traditionally measured by the apparent position of the sun in the sky (or, equivantly, in our current knowledge, of the angle of rotation of the earth with respect to the sun). While this definition works well for most days, it is NOT sufficient for the first three days in which there WAS no sun to measure against yet.
---StrongAxe on 7/5/09


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StrongAxe, you exposed yourself on 3rd July by writing, "For those three, we must look elsewhere, or at least admit that we don't know". This is the kind of tactic that Satan used on Eve, to divert her from what God has said. You will not succeed to divert Warwick and other believers. (1)We who believed God will continue to look up to Him and (2)we will never accept that we do not know what God has already declared to us!
---Adetunji on 7/5/09


Trav: Was there a point in there somewhere?
---jerry6593 on 7/4/09

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 3:6-8
---Trav on 7/1/09

Jerry, the above is conclusion of the point I was making. The question is foolish. God answers the question in places not searched.....but few search. They are cut off from searching by their limiting doctrines. There are many physical proofs of pre Adamites and older Earth. Just as there are absolute proofs of a Limited Flood account. Doctrines won't allow either...so they shut out complete truth. Wallowing in ignorance.
---Trav on 7/5/09


Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

2Pe 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
''Gods can commands the winds to obey'' He created the earth in 7 days!

I can't even command my kids to eat what I think is a great meal, Ha Ha.
---Carla3939 on 7/5/09


Earl I think you misunderstood what I meant.

We are told the earth's rotation speed is decreasing, albeit by tiny amounts. If the days of creation really were billions of years, as some believe, then by multiplying the known rate of rotation decrease by the billions of years, on 'day' one the earth must have been spinning far to fast to retain atmosphere and water etc.

Going the other way if there are long ages to follow one day it will stop. Just interpreting the available information.

I hope this helps.
---Warwick on 7/4/09


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Maybe I'm confused.
Did Israel not know what a day consisted of?
Wasn't Israel able to count days as we do?
What about the week?.. How did they know how many days were in a week?.. I mean if the day was not defined?..
Now if Israel DID know what a day was, then it would stand to reason that when God said to them that He created the heavens and the earth in 6 days, they know what He meant. There is also nowhere in the Bible that states they were confounded or that they questioned its meaning. They understood what 'day' meant.. no parable, no allegory, just straight truth. I would enjoy to hear your beliefs on the 6 days and why you believe what you do instead of just saying that 'day' doesn't mean 'day'.
---MIchael on 7/4/09


Warwick:

You keep making assumptions that the Bible says something that it does not:

Nowhere in either testament is the standard "one day equals one rotation of the earth on its axis" ever defined. You say God's creation week is "seven ordinary days". I agree that it is "seven days". However, "ordinary" is NOT present, nor is it implied - you assume it based on your own "common sense".

You say rotation gives light and darkness. Rotation IN THE CONTEXT OF A SUN gives light and darkness, which was not true in days 1-3.

You cite Exodus 20:8-11, which says God created the earth in six days, but it makes no mention of exactly what one "day" actually is.
---StrongAxe on 7/4/09


Warwick,Can you provide us with credible information ,other than your assumptions ,that the earth was at one time having a very slow rate of revolution?
If not ,then what?
---earl on 7/4/09


God set up the seven-day week at creation so that man would REMEMBER the one, true creator God - as distinguished from the many pagan gods that vie for man's attention. To this end, He established a day of rest and worship to keep His relationship with us renewed each week. If the creation week were other than 7 ordinary days, the whole plan of the Creator's weekly meeting with us, and His lesson of the manna to the Israelites in the wilderness would be meaningless (not to mention highly confusing). Why is it that the only commandment that God told us to REMEMBER is the one most want to forget?

What is the reason behind the desire of many to insinuate a variable time scale into the weekly cycle?
---jerry6593 on 7/4/09


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StrongAxe, God's adamant the creation week is made up of 7 ordinary days. No other definition is given.

I, and others have shown from Scripture that God's 6 days of creation, 7th rest,are ordinary days, equal to our 7 day week.

Earth rotation? This is what gives us evening & morning-night & day-via rotation and light which shines upon us.

Genesis 1:3-5, God created light, there was evening-(darkness, night),there was morning-(light, day) 'one day.' No rotation no darkness, no light!

This defines the length of the following 5 creation days. He repeats this definition, confirming its meaning, in Exodus 20: 8-11.

You do not believe this because you will not! Obviously not for Biblical reasons!
---Warwick on 7/4/09


David8318 wrote:

"Planet Earth was created before the 6 creative 'days' began."

God wrote:

Exo 20:11 "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth"
---jerry6593 on 7/4/09


Trav: Was there a point in there somewhere?
---jerry6593 on 7/4/09


\\If you believe in evolution, then you believe that single cells can think and obey and have a goal in mind over the 'millions of years' of evolving.
---frances008 on 7/3/09\\

I'm sure that if God is involved, He can use single celled organisms as easily as He can dirt.

So those are the alternatives we have: are human beings descended from living creatures (evolution) or from dirt (literal interpretation of Genesis)?

\\ The first chapter of Genesis explains what a day is in human terms. Do an online KJV bible search for the word "day."
---Steveng on 7/3/09\\

Since humans weren't created until the sixth day (or the sun on the third), are the days of Genesis human days or divine days?
---Cluny on 7/4/09


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Michael:

We NOW use the model of a rotating earth spinning around a (relatively) stationary sun to accurately model times and dates and seasons. We also use atomic clocks to arbitrarly define a day's length to within small fractions of a second. However, the first model is inadequate witout a sun, and the second was totally unknown to anyone more than about a century ago - certainly not in Biblical times.

I don't think it's a matter of God decieving people at all. Rather, it's God giving people as much information as he figures that they need, while today, man yseem to obsess about nailing down precise details that God didn't seem to think were important (effectively, choking on gnats while swallowing camels).
---StrongAxe on 7/4/09


If you believe in evolution, then you believe that single cells can think and obey and have a goal in mind over the 'millions of years' of evolving.
---frances008 on 7/3/09


Betty, What has healing a leper got to do with creation???
I don't believe you think for yourself, just mouth what someone else tells you!
---1st_cliff on 7/3/09


The first chapter of Genesis explains what a day is in human terms. Do an online KJV bible search for the word "day."
---Steveng on 7/3/09


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StrongAxe,
You are correct the Bible does not say anything about the Earth's rotation, so we must look elsewhere. We know that one rotation of the Earth is considered a day no matter what segments the day is broken into. And we also know the Sun is the reference we use to determine 1 rotation. So when God said to Isreal "for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth"(Ex. 20:11 and 31:17) knowing that they knew what a day consisted of, Do yo think He meant 6 rotations of the Earth, since He was there to see it, or Do you think He was either deceiving them or stating otherwise considering their possible ignorance of time?
---MIchael on 7/3/09


About evolution- an amoeba is still an amoeba thousands of years later. They didn't turn into anything but more amoebas.
---Betty on 7/3/09


Warwick:

Since you are so adamant about the straight-forward meaning of the Bible, please show me one single scripture that says that a day's length is determined by the earth's rotation. Genesis 1:3-5 mention light and darkness, but they don't mention sun, earth, nor rotation at all.

I did not say that a day was not 24 hours long, it may very well have been. However, what I DID say is that we can't know how long it was, since the yardsticks that have been used in the Bible to measure days did no exist during the first three of them. For those three, we must look elsewhere, or at least admit that we don't know.
---StrongAxe on 7/3/09


1stcliff- in re 7-2-09 to Warwick - You're trying to corrupt the word God intended us to have. Evidently, you don't believe in the power of God. Did it take Jesus Christ a year or two to heal a leper - or were they instantly healed?
---Betty on 7/3/09


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For someone who claims to be open about day-length you are very determined not to accept the straight-forward meaning of Genesis and Exodus.

Day-length isn't controlled by light, sun or otherwise. It is controlled by the rate of earth-rotation. This has slowed that is why I often say-of about 24hrs.

As I have said many times God defines day in Genesis 1:3-5 then applies exactly the same formula to the following 5. He then confirms this in Exodus 20:8-11 Using the same word 'yohm' to describe His creation 'days' and the 'days of our week. In Genesis 1 and Exodus 20:8 a number is used with 'yohm' which means they are all 24 hour days.

You, and othere give no Biblical support for any different view.
---Warwick on 7/3/09


StrongAxe day-length has changed, due to the slowing of earth's rotation, not the position of the sun

The earth's rotation speed is slowing. I we extrapolate way forwards its rotation will stop. If backwards , and if the earth is millions/billions of years old just imagine how fast it spun on day one. How would the atmosphere and water (created on day one) remain upon the earth?

I am no expert on atomic clocks but I believe you are wrong. I visited the atomic clock lab. at the Poly Techniches Bundesanstalt in Germany when my friend Prof. Werner Gitt was director of the university. I saw the latest Cesium Stream atomic clock and it measures time via the vibration of the Cesium atom. No connection to the sun's position.
---Warwick on 7/3/09


Warwick, You continue to read something without regard what it actually says!
Again..The light He called "day"
The darkness He called "night
What did He call "evening"? you assume this is the "night" but evening is not "night"
What did He call "morning"? again you assume this mean day but morning is not "day"
Where is the consistency??
God is sending mixed messages...NO!
If He meant "night" he would have said "night" (or day)
Do you not see that he changes from "day and night" to evening and morning???

Somethings are just too hard for the blind to see!
---1st_cliff on 7/2/09


Adetunji, you are right. It is by faith that we accept the truth of God's word.

As you say Hebrews 11:6 'Without faith it is impossible to please God.'
---Warwick on 7/2/09


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1stCliff a casual reading of Genesis 1:3 shows you are wrong. Having created light, in vs 5 He says "God called the light 'day' and the darkness he called 'night.' And there was evening and there was morning-one day.

God says evening and morning make up 'one day', one complete earth-rotation day.'

This is the darkness/light cycle day created by a fixed light-source and a rotating earth.

You are correct Exodus 20:8-11 changes nothing, but confirms everything. Are you saying the 7 day week God explained in Exodus 20:8-11 was not made up of 7-24hr days?

If you do believe they were 7-24hrs days why do you believe this?

How hard those of little faith fight to defend antiBiblical ideas.
---Warwick on 7/2/09


Warwick:

I did NOT say that "the first three days were definitely not 24 hours". I just said that we can't know how long it was. I am not changing scripture into something that contracditts it - rather, I am saying that we shouldn't read something into it that isn't there.

Day lengths changes slightly due to the slow down of earth's rotation. Our day today is slightly longer than 6000 years ago. Why the change? Because we measure days by the sun's position relative to the earth. Scientists also use atomic clocks for precise measurements, but these are adjusted periodically BASED on the sun's position. So, before there was a sun, we don't know how days were measured (and thus, how long they were).
---StrongAxe on 7/2/09


Warwick, Sundown to sundown is universally accepted as a 24 hr.day.
However your not discerning the message God intended! IE
Evening is a fraction of a day from sundown 'till dark.
Morning is a fraction of a day sunrise 'till noon.
Neither comprise a 24hr.day even together most of the day is missing.
God is describing a "creative day" from darkness to bright morning!
Starts out with a chunk of mud, ends up with a human being!
Ex.20 changes nothing,6 days working 7th resting demonstrated on a weekly basis,quite brilliant I would say!
---1st_cliff on 7/2/09


StrongAxe a day has always been the same length, one rotation of the earth, (give and take a little for slight variation in earth-rotation rates), since day one. For the first 3 rotations God chose to light our planet with His light before creating the sun.

We can speculate why He did so but we cannot reject it unless we are prepared to reject His word.

In Genesis 3 God, having created light, said '. there was evening and there was morning-one day.'

He applies this exact formula to the next 5, with absolutely no hint here (or anywhere in all of Scripture) that they were other than 24hr days. In fact in Exodus 20:8-11 He confirms their 24hr length.

How hard people fight to defend worldly antiScriptural ideas!
---Warwick on 7/2/09


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Good grief questioner, evolve from what?
---larry on 7/2/09


1stcliff- "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." (Quote from Jesus Matthew 22:29.) God made heaven and earth in 6 literal days.
---Betty on 7/2/09


Warwick:

Our current convention of measuring days as 24 hour periods is fairly recent - for example, the Romans divided their day into 4 watches of 6 hours each. Throughout history, days have been marked by the rotation of the earth with respect to the sun (or, for flat-earthers, the rotation of the sun around the earth). However, such measures are meaningless in contexts where there IS no sun - such as the first three days (since the sun was created AFTER the third day). Some other measure must have been used.
---StrongAxe on 7/1/09


I believe God did everything in 7 human-days as stated in the Bible. Adam came to life as a Man(not boy), Eve came to life as a woman(not girl). Snake appeared from Moses's rod by God's word. The Red-Sea was parted into 2 instantly. Prophet Jonah was not digested in the whale's belly.Lazarus was raised from the dead instantly not gradually. God is all-powerful and does all things as He says(said). Human beings are very logical & rational(higher level than animals but at a very low level to God).Just as animals cannot totally understand Man, Man by reasoning/science cannot totally understand God. Hebrews 11:6 Believe God then He will help you to understand Him.
---Adetunji on 7/1/09


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For those of you who believe that the earth was NOT created in six days, do not believe the miracles Jesus performed. How long would it take evolution to change water into wine? How long would it take evolution to rearrange the molecules of a body to bring a person back to life? How long would it take to calm the seas? How long would it take evolution to conjure up loaves of bread and fish to feed thousands?

How long would it take evolution for a human to defy physics and walk on water?
---Steveng on 7/1/09


\\If God's creation days are not ordinary evening and morning days then language is meaningless and God is a deceiver.
---Warwick on 6/30/09\\

You only bear language you like. Truth/proof has no door through your armour.

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Matthew 11:24-26

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 3:6-8
---Trav on 7/1/09


Planet Earth was created before the 6 creative 'days' began. The 'first day' describes light reaching the surface of the already existing earth, which before the first day began was in darkness. How long Planet Earth existed before the 'first day' began is not stated.

The 'heavens' created on the 2nd day were the heavens in which the flying creatures flew, and the 'earth' created on the 3rd day was the dry land that was made to appear.

The 'day' of Genesis 2:4 as well as the 'six days' of Exodus 20:11, comprising the whole creative period from when God created light on the earth, does not include the period of time previous in which Earth was already existing and during which it was formless and waste and existing in darkness.
---David8318 on 7/1/09


How could this be possible? Have we ever observed a single instance in our ten thousand years of documentation, where any known animal developed something new. No. The reason is that it does not, cannot, work like that. The DNA is taken from ones parents and no other outside party. No new information can enter the gene pool. Intermarriage of genetically similar types within species mean that we can be bred, accidentally or on purpose to become faster or whiter or taller, etc but we cannot suddenly develop the beginnings of legs, like tadpoles do, if we are a fish. See what I am getting at. It is physically impossible.
---frances008 on 7/1/09


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1stCliff, in the middle east each day begins at sundown. Having travelled there over 40 years I know this to be fact. I am surprized you don't know such a well known fact! Sabbath begins sundown Friday, ceasing sundown Saturday. Shabbat shalom!

Over and over I have demonstrated from Scripture that God's creation days are evening and morning days of approximately 24hrs, as confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11.

In your preposterous non-Scriptural scenario God says He created in 6 days, resting the 7th so his followers should work 6 days resting the 7th. But, though described exactly the same, you insist they are of different length! Absurd. You reject God's word,logic, and the rules of grammar.

Quite the scholar!
---Warwick on 7/1/09


Warwick, Again you say one thing ,then believe something different! IE God speaks to us on our level.
Nowhere in any culture is a day referred to as beginning in the evening and "ENDING" in the morning!
Many time in scripture it says "They rose up early in the morning.."to some event!
You're not using the spirit of discernment that "evening and morning" were figurative,
creating in 6 of these time periods.
The 24hr.days were figurative and hence demonstrated by the Jews on a weekly basis!
Makes more sense and logic than your "rush job"
---1st_cliff on 7/1/09


God created Heaven and Earth in six days.
---Betty on 7/1/09


Cluny, Spiritual things are indeed spiritually discerned however Jesus had something to say about this. In John 3:12 He asks how will we believe Him about heavenly things if we don't believe what He says about earthly things? He said man was made at the beginning of creation. This of course fits if the days are 24hr days, but obviously not if they are long time-periods.

Remember Scripture was written for us, not for God so is written in our terms, from a human perspective. For example Matt. 5:45 talks of sunrise. From our perspective the sun does rise.

If God did not mean us to accept 6-day creation why did He define them as He did in Genesis 1:5? Why then did He say He created in 6 of these days, in Exodus 20:8-11?
---Warwick on 6/30/09


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It slowly evolved. Genesis is an allegory.
---eric1968 on 6/30/09


\\If God's creation days are not ordinary evening and morning days then language is meaningless and God is a deceiver.
---Warwick on 6/30/09\\

Is He?

Are these the only alternatives?

Sounds like a false dichotomy to me.

Remember, God doesn't even think the same way you do. You didn't think He did, did you?

Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.
---Cluny on 6/30/09


Two Peter 3:8 says a day is a thousand years & a thousand years a day to God, showing He is outside of time, being eternal.

Peter can compare 'day' and 'thousand years' becasue his readers already knew what the words meant.

On day 1 God created light which produced evening & morning which He calls 'one day.'

Exodus 20:8-11: God says He created in 6 of these days, resting the 7th telling His followers to do likewise.

If God did not mean that a creation day, and human week-days are 24hrs, why did He carefully define day-length then say our week-days were the same length?

If God's creation days are not ordinary evening and morning days then language is meaningless and God is a deceiver.
---Warwick on 6/30/09


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