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Did Saul Go To Heaven

Did Saul go to heaven? After consulting with the witch of Endor?

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Betty: My Bible says that Saul went to see a witch to ask her to bring bacl from the dead
Samuel so he could ask him for advice which God had refused to give him.
Did the witch bring Samel back from the dead?
Did Samuel, back from the dead, really talk to Saul?
I suggest the answer is NO to both questions

Pierre
---Pierre on 7/17/09


Thank you Michael and Betty and Nana for your answers. When I read this story in 1 Samuel I also believed it was a prophesy that came true against Saul. It is not even hard to interpret what happened. That God cannot do something is so rediculous. That is one of the problems I see when others answer. God will even use the devil if He so pleases. To think that God cannot do with His creation what He so wants is pretty far out. A Sovereign Supreme God who knows all and controls all, restricted by something or someone is also rediculous.
---Mark_V on 7/17/09


Betty, the witch could have raised up anyone named Samuel. Saul did not specify the PROPHET Samuel. Can anyone be sure?

Just as there are many named Jesus, only Jesus of NAZARUS has any power.

Anything could have predicted this event and is not something extroidinary. Why, because even the Devil knows truth, that Saul was going to be replaced by David, that Saul had already disobeyed, and that wirchcraft itself brought death. Saul Promised and swore by GOD that no harm would come to her....taking God's name in vain....was a BIG MISTAKE.

1 Chronicles 10:13-14 specifically say these things happened to Saul with other disobedience AND ALSO BECAUSE he consulted a medium.
---kathr4453 on 7/17/09


Kathr, Your not happy discussing Scripture, it's hard for you without throwing accusations. You follow me on other blogs. I realized when I came on line people are not all bad. That they might have a different interpretations of a passage. That maybe they were taught denominational practices, and also that some just want to cause trouble. Since I cannot tell which one it is, I discuss to the best of my ability what I know to be True. I don't assume that you are the antichrist, because I don't know. It is foolish for me to say such stupid things to someone if I don't know. But you do as if you know they are. You make a coments together with accusation. You didn't do this before, now you do. Get right with God and answer for His glory.
---Mark_V on 7/17/09


pierre- You give the witch more credit than she is due. God had told Samuel what was going to come to pass, Samuel told Saul and it happened. Saul & his sons were killed in the same day (1Samuel 31:6). The Bible specifically says (1) the witch saw Samuel (2) & more than once the Bible said Samuel said. For example 1Samuel 28:15 "And Samuel said to Saul...."
---Betty on 7/17/09




1. Get rid of you NIV. The verse says "gods" strongs #430 coming up out of the earth...not spirits, a totally different word concerning the spirit of man etc.

2. SDA's believe the spirit of man returns to God. Is God in the earth and just burped up Samuel?

3. Samuel said to Saul..today you and your sons will be WITH ME....meaning to some of us...Abraham's Bosom...the Righteous side of sheol.

4. So, according to this prophecy, Saul and his three sons went to Abraham's bosom where Samuel was....therefore according to your belief this was indeed Samuel, Saul and his three sons went to heaven. Which is the blog question.

5. Betty, Nana etc, Please don't tell anyone they are going to hell for disobedience.
---kathr4453 on 7/17/09


"Nana, are you saying Jesus, Moses and Elija are angels?"
No, I am not, however our Lord did say that on the other side of the resurrection "they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels which are in heaven." We also know that Moses did not leave this earth in the same way that Jesus and Elijah. Did God raise Samuel? If you had faith to move a mountain, is it you that move it or is God who moves it for you? Luke 11:11-13. Now, you do not call Moses's and Elijah's apparitions as 'demons' but you call those of Mary's? Are you God's secretary taking diction of His every decree? Pretentious is what you are.
---Nana on 7/16/09


kathr- Sadly, it seems you & Pierre may fall prey to the anti-Christ since you cannot believe what the Bible says.

Betty on 7/16/09

You've seen clothed spirits yourself???

I believe what the Bible says...and can find NOWHERE absolutely NOWHERE the Bible says GOD RAISED SAMUEL. This is where you all are filling in what is not there. and you expect us to accept this why, because you say so.

You see, if God truly raised Samuel, the scriptures would say so.


Where on earth do you think witchcraft gets the idea they too can call forth the dead....from this...and you thing God is a party to this?

God CANNOT go against His own commandments.

If He could he would be a liar and not God!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/16/09


To MarkV, if this will post.

MarkV, I did not call you anti-christ, but said what you are saying is setting people up to be deceived by anti-christ.

I feel many of your comments are not scripturally sound...leading others to fall into evil.

Your take on the Sovereignty of God as EVERYTHING is of God, regardless of good or bad is not the true meaning of the Sovereignty of God, again misleading so many people.

God's Word is sovereign. OBEY His Voice, discern truth from lie from His word and know truth from lie.

The days are evil MarkV. Your version of the Sovereignty of God EXCUSES you from any accountability.

If you feel this comment is evil, hateful and full of poision...you have a problem!Pride!
---kathr4453 on 7/16/09


MarkV: I want to make sure that you understand that I do not condem you. I just disagree with you some. It is important to
be able to disagree agreeably. That is the feeling I want to leave you with. Maranatha, Pierre
---Pierre on 7/16/09




On the Mount of transfiguration was Jesus, Moses and Elija. I don't recall a witch calling them forth. Do you???***

Also when Moses and Elijah were standing with Jesus on the Mount of transfiguration, nothing was said about spirits/gods ?/ coming up out of the earth.

And no mention other than the Disciples recognized of Moses and Elijah was there any to their apperance. Only Jesus's apperance as He was Transfigured..transformed.

Was then Abraham's bosom literally somewhere in the earth. Or when lazarus looked UP Luke 4....was Abraham's bosom above the earth in the third heaven?
---kathr4453 on 7/16/09


The prophet: Samuel 1Sam 15:28, 28:17
The prophesy: 1Sam 28:19
The fulfilment: 1Sam 31:6
Your telling us that this is demonic because of the witch.
I'm telling you the witch didn't raise him and that this was truth from and power of God.
How can we know? Isa 41:21-24, 42:8-9, Jer 28:8-9, 2Pet 1:19-21, Jer 23:28-29, Mic 3:7-8
This also remainds me of Joseph: Gen 45:1-8
esp. v.8.
---MIchael on 7/16/09


Pierre, please do not pray for me to see your point of view because it is wrong. Pray for yourself that God will open your eyes so that you can see the truth, and while you are at it pray for Kathr, she needs a lot of prayer. I myself pray for eveyone on line each day. Some are trusting more in God now then ever before. What I pray more then anything is for genuine Christians to leave their bad habits of condemning other brothers and sisters. Many are joining the ranks of those who are always doing it, creating a bigger group. Especially when I speak about the Sovereing right of God to do what He so pleases with His creation.
---MarkV. on 7/16/09


kathr- Sadly, it seems you & Pierre may fall prey to the anti-Christ since you cannot believe what the Bible says.

Nana- I went down & started reading the posts from the other day & upward. I was going to tell kathr the same thing you did until I saw your post. I am so glad you said it - about spirits being clothed.
---Betty on 7/16/09


The angel who was going to cut Balaam, was he naked while strapped across the passageway waiting? Nana***


Nana, are you saying Jesus, Moses and Elija are angels?

Now we know angels can change their apperance..yes no? Can fallen Angels too?

Apparitians of Mary are demons!!!



On the Mount of transfiguration was Jesus, Moses and Elija. I don't recall a witch calling them forth. Do you???
---kathr4453 on 7/16/09


Kathr, I feel sorry for you for having to resort to words about me. Having a different interpretation does not mean someone is the anti-christ as you so declare. Discussions with you are never good. You say you prayed last night, but you just don't have faith in what you ask for, because what came out of your mouth could not have been of God. God never calls His children antichrist. You want to discredit me and my answers, For I see you as a cancer on every blog where I answer, but all you are doing is discreding what God wants to convey to others. There will always be people like you attacking the Truth and attacking those who disagree with you. There is evil in your heart that expresses itself through your words.
---MarkV. on 7/16/09


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MarkV.
You say that the dead do not know anythng nor do hey speak to living, which is true, except in this case where you suggest that God told Saul what would happen to him.
Do you really believe that God who would not talk to Saul direcly would talk to him through a medium? I don't think so. It was the "medium" impersonating Samuel that talked to Saul not God.
Peace PR
---Pierre on 7/16/09


***I pray that you will be freed from your DELUSIONS as you continue to believe words contrary to what THE WORD teaches about the state of the dead .I mean this most sincerely.
Pierre
---Pierre on 7/15/09

Interesting choice of words Pierre. I was praying about this last night and the Lord gave me the most enlightening answer.

anti-christ is coming with lying signs and wonders....and those who disobey the word and have rejected the Gospel will also be sent strong delusions that they too will believe the lie.

What is going to happen...anti-christ will be so convincing...and even use God's word to accomplish his end, but who will have discernment that it is NOT of GOD??

Markv is setting them up!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/16/09


Pierre, I want to thank you for answering to me. I don't care to discuss much with you since you have a different bible then I. For I thought we were reading the same one. I don't mind if you disagree, I am sure I don't agree with many anyway. I was just giving my intepretation of the passage. Again thanks for answering.
---MarkV. on 7/16/09


So now we have angels following the commands of an enemy of GOD?

Only fallen angels work with the enemies of GOD.

The Bible says GOD would not speak with Saul. So he goes to an enemy agent of the devil and GOD allows that?

Think about that. The truth is that people are so desperate to try to prove the doctrine of going directly to heaven that is not found in the Bible they twist stories to make it so.
---Samuel on 7/16/09


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kathr4453,
And you are the first to claim, "scoffer, scoffer!", look at you with the bit on Benny (seen on TV) and "Amy" (whoever she may be)!
Matt 17:2-3: "And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him." Notice the Lord's raiment and do you think Moses and Elias appeared naked? The angel who was going to cut Balaam, was he naked while strapped across the passageway waiting? What do you think Moses and Elias looked like to the disciples, like racoons? Get serious kathr4453.
---Nana on 7/15/09


Pierre, you need to stop reading the books you have, they are blinding you to the Truth. Didn't Nana and Betty read the same thing? I don't know what Bible you have but it must be different then my KJV. The dead do not speak or know anything but this one knew what Saul had done and what was going to happen to him. The medium didn't tell him, so who did? Answer, God. When Saul asked the medium what was what she saw, she answered, I saw a "spirit" ascending out of the earth. Spirit in Hebrew means "God, gods, angels, ruler, or judge. It can also be used to designate a likeness to one of these. From the mediums perspective, Samuel appeared to be "like a Spirit" ascending out of the earth.
---MarkV. on 7/15/09


MarkV: I want to be kind to you too but BOLD in proclaiming the truth:
You write:"you will hear what Samuel had to say to Saul"
"if Samuel was dead...he knew?"
"why did God speak by Samuel"
My friend, take another look at this story, and I pray that you will be freed from your DELUSIONS as you continue to believe words contrary to what THE WORD teaches about the state of the dead .I mean this most sincerely.
Pierre
---Pierre on 7/15/09


Nana, isn't this how ALL meduims work...the power of suggestion...Oh! Oh! Scream....faint, grunt etc, "I see your mother"....yada yada yada! Yep!!!

And do Spirits wear clothing? Do spirits of the dead keep their earthly bodily form that the witch would have recognized him? AND their clothing too! Gee! Can I take my favorite dress with me?

Samuel says to Saul..."why have you disquited me". feeling uneasy, anxious, alarm, rage wrath ...look up the word in strongs and other scripture.

Now if God raised Samuel, no such question would have been asked. Pierre, Maybe they would like to join Benny Hinn in standing over Amy McPherson's grave for that little extra anointing!!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/15/09


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kathr- Samuel was not ressurected, his spirit came up. The Bible says the woman saw Samuel and that Samuel said. Deny that and you deny the scripture verses - I did not write the Bible. Do YOU believe God's word? The witch did not raise Samuel - God caused him to come up & speak. He delivered a message from God. Like Markv said, witches can bring evil spirits, but can't raise the dead, spiritually or bodily. If Jewish rabbis knew their scriptures so well, they'd know Jesus Christ is Lord and Messiah, and they wouldn't blaspheme him & look for another messiah. Strong's H430 says about gods that it could mean angels. Samuel was accompanied by them.
---Betty on 7/15/09


The only way the event could happen is if God made it happen. He permitted this event to happen as a warning to Saul. God could have used any method, dream, prophet etc., but used this method for His own reasons. MarkV****


MarkV, be careful what you say concerning God. Thou shall not take His name in vain, meaning thou shall not LIE on behalf of God.

If you read, the woman said..she saw gods coming out of the earth. WELL FRIENDS, Saints are not gods coming out of the earth..period.

If God has wanted to talk to Saul, he would have sent a LIVE prophet.


The only person God has resurrected out of the grave is Jesus Christ! AND only because He was sinless... Jesus raised Lazarus demonstrating the power of God.
---kathr4453 on 7/15/09


I believe what written in Scripture is true. The events that took place were written for all of us to know. If 1 and second Samuel are not true, then who is to know what is true and what is false in Scripture? Are we to pick and choose what is worthy of believing and what is not? That God found it worthy for us to know is true. There was a reason why God permitted the writers of 1 and second Samuel to be written. Did Samuel talk to Saul? The Bible says he did and in fact Samuel who had been dead, knew what Saul had done and why God departed from Saul. Doesn't that mean Samuel found out someway? Sure, through God. Why does every time someone doesn't agree with another, it has to be from the devil? They could just have a different interpretation.
---MarkV. on 7/15/09


"Saul claimed Samuel was there in the flesh (not spirit) with a mantel on."
kathr4453 on 7/14/09
Using your own Bible version again? As I read, the woman 'saw Samuel', Saul 'perceived' it was 'Samuel' from the description the woman gave of the 'form' she saw. I do not believe the woman raised Samuel (the form thereof) for it bothered her not the request, yet the actual vision did make her fear for her life in that she recognized Samuel. This 'Samuel' spoke true to character, therefore I believe it was the real character, audibly to Saul and visually to the woman.
---Nana on 7/15/09


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Deuteronomy 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day
Mark 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus
Curios what people believe about souls and spirits.
---MIchael on 7/15/09


Kathr4453: Apreciate your note. Nice to have
someone who agrees with me.
---Pierr5358 on 7/14/09


Pierre, I answered kindly to you, you didn't have to make that remark to Betty, If you read it again you will hear what Samuel had to say to Saul. " And the Lord has done for Himself as He spoke by me" If Samuel was dead and knew nothing how is it that he knew? God told him. "For the Lord has torn the kingdom of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David" Samuel knew that too. And why did God speak by Samuel? "Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord nor executed His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this things to you this day" are you saying this statement are not the Word of God? Pierre, before you condemn my statments as been of the devil read Scripture.
---MarkV. on 7/14/09


Gary: Let me say clearly that I believe that God is limited in what He can do. For instance HE CANNOT LIE! In other words He can't tell us one thing about the state of the dead in the OT and another in the NT. Neither can He save someone who grieves the Holy Spirt which Saul did do.
---Pierre on 7/14/09


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Betty: What does the Bible say concerning the dead such as Samuel? It says they know not anything pertaining to life on earth they are unconscious etc.
Be careful what you believe. The devil is a great illutionist, greater than all of the Las Vegas showmen!
---Pierre on 7/14/09


Not even one Jewish Rabbi will ever tell you Samuel was raised from the dead by a witch.

They KNOW their scriptures. Sorcery is an abomination, and Witches don't have POWER . Not that kind of Power!!

You may want to do some more researech and LISTEN to good Bible teachers on this subject.

Pierre, I agree with you here completely!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/14/09


Pierre, The women, (medium) not a witch, cannot bring anyone back from the dead. It's believe they can, but not true. Witches can bring evil spirits, but not anyone from the dead. The only way the event could happen is if God made it happen. He permitted this event to happen as a warning to Saul. God could have used any method, dream, prophet etc., but used this method for His own reasons.
I cannot understand why you would not allow God to use any method to do what He has to do. It is almost as if you are saying He is restricted by something out there. I hope I have explained my account. You do not have to agree with it. I can tell you the account I gave is by four different commentaries. Which speak a whole lot better then I do.
---MarkV. on 7/14/09


Betty, the problem I have with this whole issue is other scripture stating it cannot be so.
Firstly, Jesus said I AM the resurrection
Saul claimed Samuel was there in the flesh (not spirit) with a mantel on.
When Jesus rose up Lazarus, he stunkand had to have others remove his grave cloths.
What happened to Samuel after this..did he die again?

Scripture says, it is appointed ONCE for man to die and then the judgement.

Do you believe witches? Or do you believe Gods word?
---kathr4453 on 7/14/09


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kathr- If you will read 1Samuel 28:7, you will see the Bible says "And when the woman saw Samuel...." 1 Samuel 28:15 the Bible says "And Samuel said to Saul...." 1Samuel 28:16 says "Then said Samuel...." The Bible says Samuel appeared & spoke.
---Betty on 7/14/09


Mark: You made an important change in your last blog.
Yo say that God was not surprised at Saul's visit to the witch because HE PERMITTED it to happen. That is a lot different than to say that HE MADE it happen.
I still maintain that Saul did not see the
real Samuel for the reasons already stated,
You should know that a number of people claim to have seen MARIA the mother of Christ since she died, but I believe they are gravely mistaken and it is my undertanding that in the near future more such sightings will be claimed. But they are all ILLUSIONS produced by the devil who clearly has that ability.
---Pierre on 7/14/09


Concering the question, no one knows if Saul went to heaven or not. The Bible does not say either way. As a matter of fact, it doesn't mentioned hardly anyone going to heaven. It does mention who loved the Lord and had faith and what they did in life. Even the people that died in the desert are not mentioned if they went to heaven or not. We assume they didn't but that is only an assumption.
With Saul we know God was disappointed with his actions, but disappointed in a human response, but not disappointed as God, for He already knew what Saul would do and permitted it to happen. It isn't as if God didn't know Saul was going to go to the medium. Every event that will happen is already before His eyes. He is surprise by nothing.
---MarkV. on 7/14/09


Paul was the greatest???????? What a load! Where is his name in the new Jerusalem, only 12apostles are named, so where does he fit in????? What did Paul do different then any other Apostle or Prophet????? Jon you have no understanding of scripture.
---wayne on 7/13/09


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Jon ... the question is about the other Saul.

Not the one who became Paul, but the one who was King before David.
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/14/09


Yes Paul will be in heaven. Other then Christ himself Paul is probably the greatest minister to ever live.
---Jon on 7/13/09


Pierre, there is nothing wrong in disagreeing with me. Not all who learn of God will agree with everything since many are taught different then I. But anyone who puts restrictions on God is wrong. I want you to meet the God of the Bible "For He works all things after the counsel of His own will" Eph. 1:11. It will never be the counsel of someone else. When He permitted Saul to talk to Samuel, it was His will that did that. God works through anyone He so chooses to fulfill His own plan. He sustains all, but is Himself independent of all. He gives to all but is enriched by none. Such is the God of Scripture, who cannot be found by searching. He can be known only as He is revealed to the heart by the Holy Spirit through the Word.
---MarkV. on 7/13/09


Obviously, God sent the deceased Samuel to Saul to inform him of some things Saul did not want to hear. That time instead of a hoax by a demon, the Bible says the real Samuel came up & spoke to Saul. God not only permitted it that time, He made it happen.
---Betty on 7/12/09

Betty, no where do we see God permitted Samuel to appear to Saul...it says, Saul preceived it was Samuel.

How many today preceive they see Mary.

Satan CAN change himself into an angel of light and preacher of Righteousness.

If spiritism/mediums/wizards were FORBIDDEN, believe me God did not use Samuel to speak to Saul.
---kathr4453 on 7/13/09


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Continue please....

So you're saying that God would overlook His own commandments and use an
abomination to execute His work? You do realize in what context Saul asked for
Samuel to be raised from the dead don't you? He asked in the context of having
exhausted every other means of getting God to answer Him. God refused to
answer Saul through prophets, through Scripture, through priests but according
to you God was very willing to use a witch.


Get out!!!

Satan has no power to raise a saint of God from the dead.

You are right that only God can but clearly God didn't. So we conclude that
Samuel was really not risen from the dead.
---kathr4453 on 7/13/09


God obviously, at least once in the history of man, brought up a dead man to speak to the living -Samuel the prophet. The Bible says it was Samuel, doesn't it? 1Samuel 28:12 said "And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice...." 1 Samuel 28:15 says, "And Samuel said to Saul...." 1Samuel 28:16 "Then said Samuel...."
---Betty on 7/13/09


The Sovereignty of God is that He cannot LIE!!!

Now it makes sense that if this is what Calvinism teaches, no wonder Joseph Smith didn't feel there was anything wrong with being spoken to by Moroni.....

Calvinism totally corrupts the meaning of the Sovereignty of God!

Hebrews 6:18
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

1 Chronicles 10:13

13So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it,
---kathr4453 on 7/13/09


Pierre, you seem to be shocked that God would use the medium. I have read many of your answers and like most of them, but you seem to be short on the knowledge of our Sovereign God. Pierre, He uses everyone, even the devil to do His will and purpose. Used Pharoah. He is in charge of everyone. No hidden molicules are roaming around without God allowing it or permitting it. He is in control no matter how it looks to us.
---MarkV. on 7/9/09
MarkV, I this your comment above?

GOD WILL NEVER USE A MEDIUM in bring back a dead person under any circumstances to speak to us now or then. Mediums were forbidden now and then.

You seem to be saying God DID use a Medium!!!

If that is another Calvin Belief, It's blasphemy!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/12/09


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Obviously, God sent the deceased Samuel to Saul to inform him of some things Saul did not want to hear. That time instead of a hoax by a demon, the Bible says the real Samuel came up & spoke to Saul. God not only permitted it that time, He made it happen.
---Betty on 7/12/09


I believe that God raised Samuel's spirit to give true prophesy to Saul. By that time David was the anionted king and God was speaking to him, not to Saul. The witch was a fraud. She was suprised at the spirits coming and going, as if she never had seen that before. God didn't use her, He used the situation to speak to Saul through Samuel. Another testimony of God's infinite power and knowledge. I don't think Saul was ever truly on the Lord's side. It was convenient for him to be before he turned away and thought he didn't need God anymore. God took His Spirit from Saul. Also it seemed to be a final test of Saul's patience and reliance. By not waiting on the Lord, Saul made his final rejection of God.
---MIchael on 7/12/09


Mark: Thank you for your kind words in regards to most of my answers.
Yet I am afraid I have to disagree on God's using the devil as a "medium" to get His way.
I would agree that He tolerates the devil doing his thing but it is not God's will that he does.
---Pierre on 7/12/09


Pierre, you and Kathr quoted some things I never said. I believe you should go back and read what I wrote first before you say anything I did not even mention. I can put it again for you. I believe I made it clear to where any child can understand it. Kathr, is not studying before she talks. She assumed what you said I said was true only because she didn't go back to read what I said.
I gave you a clear picture and you rejected it. That is fine, but please don't put words on my mouth.
---MarkV. on 7/11/09


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3.The "spirit" who came up and claimed to be Samuel,said that the witch had the power to rais him. That is a lie! The Bible tells us that only God has to power to restore life and raise people from the dead.The devil can't give life back to anyone. Jesus is the resurrection and the life!
Saul seems to have grieved the Holy Spirit and an evil spirit took a hold of him.
---Pierre on 7/8/09

Absolutely Pierre. When we also see in the book of Luke the story of Lazarus Abraham's bosom etc, no one could come back and warn anyone ....


MarkV, your answers surprise me more and more each day! You should know better.
---kathr4453 on 7/10/09


The first nine chapters of 1 Chronicles contain Israels history from creation to the Babylonian exile. Chapter ten goes back to the death of King Saul and leads us to the reign of David.

The writer of Chronicles, who is Ezra, doesnt spend much time telling us about the life and reign of Saul, he simply tells us why he died.

Saul died because he was unfaithful to the Lord, he did not keep the word of the Lord and even consulted a medium for guidance, and did not inquire of the Lord. So the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David.

MarkV, I am realy surprised at your answer here. GOD did NOT use a Medium.

God cannot contradict Himself EVER!!! Mediums were/are FORBIDDEN then and now!
---kathr4453 on 7/10/09


Pierre, you seem to be shocked that God would use the medium. I have read many of your answers and like most of them, but you seem to be short on the knowledge of our Sovereign God. Pierre, He uses everyone, even the devil to do His will and purpose. Used Pharoah. He is in charge of everyone. No hidden molicules are roaming around without God allowing it or permitting it. He is in control no matter how it looks to us.
---MarkV. on 7/9/09


No, Saul did not go to heaven. Samuel told Saul that Saul & his sons would be with him (in hell) the next day. Samuel had come up out of the earth along with demons. Before Jesus Christ was resurrected, everybody went to hell.
---Betty on 7/9/09


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Read 1Sam.28.7
King Saul went to a witch for advice. He never actually saw Samuel, rather He saw a demon who impersonated Samuel.
How do we know that this was an evil deception:
1.God tells us we should never go to a witch
2 They were supposed to be executed
3.The "spirit" who came up and claimed to be Samuel,said that the witch had the power to rais him. That is a lie! The Bible tells us that only God has to power to restore life and raise people from the dead.The devil can't give life back to anyone. Jesus is the resurrection and the life!
Saul seems to have grieved the Holy Spirit and an evil spirit took a hold of him.
---Pierre on 7/8/09


Thanks for that Mark. Keep up the God work!
---Warwick on 7/9/09


Warwick: "Stevenq the word used here in Hebrew does mean 'God's realm', translated in English as heaven. It doesn't say sky or first heaven though.

I am aware of what John 3:13 says, a puzzle. Maybe someone more knowledgeable has an answer?"

Who am I? To most, if not all, of the bloggers on these blogs, I'm just another person with an opinion. They would consider Jesus, if he were on these blogs, the same way.

Try asking God for he gives you the knowledge and the answers you seek. If you can't hear him, then he will usually send somebody.
---Steveng on 7/8/09


Warwich, the best explanation I have of John 3:13, comes from many commentaries that I have. "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of man who is in heaven."
This verse contradicts other religious systems's claims to special revelation from God. Jesus insisted that no one has ascended to heaven in such a way as to return and talk about heavenly things (2 Cor. 12:1-4). Only He had His permanent abode in heaven prior to His incarnation and, therefore, only He has the true knowledge regarding heavenly wisdom (Prov. 30:4). vv. 3:11 Jesus replied with "you" indicating that Nicodemus unbelief was typical of the nation as a collective whole.
---MarkV. on 7/8/09


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Gary: So if I understand you correctly:
The Lord empowered the witch to bring forth Samuel, who spoke to Saul in place of God, who did mot want to speak to Samuel directly.
That amounts to God using witchcraft to do his work. I do not believe that at all but if tha's what you chose to believe it is your right.
---Pierre on 7/8/09


Pierre, my illustration of Samuel was a complete as I could put it. I have studied this passages through many commentaries. We do know that the medium had no powers to do what she did. We also know that God didn't want to speak to Saul personally. We also know if Samuel appeared to Saul it had to be by the power of God since God is the only one with that power. And Samuel made it clear God send him when in v. 17 he said, "And the Lord has done for Himself as He spoke by me." He was speaking for the Lord. Though no other instance like this is found in Scripture other then this instance, God used Samuel for a special purpose.
---MarkV. on 7/8/09


Stevenq the word used here in Hebrew does mean 'God's realm', translated in English as heaven. It doesn't say sky or first heaven though.

I am aware of what John 3:13 says, a puzzle. Maybe someone more knowledgeable has an answer?
---Warwick on 7/8/09


Warwick: "Eric you are so disposed to making untrue statements about Scripture. I wonder, do you do it to mislead people or because you know little of Scripture?

Have a read of 2 Kings 2:1-11, specifically vs. 11 which reads '...and Elijah went up to heaven...' Heaven being 'samayim' the realm of God. "

If you believe that Elijah went to "God's realm" then you are calling Jesus a liar, for he said that no one has been to heaven.

As for Eligah, He went up in the first heaven, the sky and was transplanted for a job he had to do later in the bible.
---Steveng on 7/6/09


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Let me say it clearly. According to the Bible the DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING and not even a witch could wake Samuel up to answer Saul's questions.
I tink that the Bible tells us that the Lord is opposed to witchcraft for it deceives many!
Our God is not a God of contradiction. If some of what has been written were true he would have to be!! BUT HE IS NOT!
---Pierre on 7/6/09


Samuel, God refused to answer directly to Saul, but still made it possible for Saul to see Samuel. God miraculously permitted the actual spirit of Samuel to speak. The word "spirit" translated in the Heb. can mean, God, gods, angel, ruler, or judge"
The medium was not overruling God. The reason the medium could do what she did is because of God. Without God she could never bring anyone from the dead. It was not his physical body, that was rottening in the grave.
Though Saul was walking in disobedience to God, it was ironic that Saul would swear by the very existence of the Lord. Even worse he swore that no punishment would come upon her when the Levitical law required her to be stoned to death. (Lev. 20:27).
---MarkV. on 7/6/09


Pierre, your question as to the nature of Samuel's appearance, the text clearly indicates that Samuel, not an apparision, was evident to the eyes of the medium. God miraclously permitted the actual spirit of Samuel to speak vv 16-19. Because she understood her inability to raise the dead in this manner, she immediately knew that it must have been by the power of God and that the person asking must be Saul, since he was covered so no one would know it was him. From the medium's perspective, Samuel appeared to be "like a spirit" ascending out of the earth. Yet there is no such miracle as this in all of Scripture. "You will be with me" must mean with him in "the abode" of the righteous.
---MarkV. on 7/6/09


Pierre 2: by that statement "will be with me" there was no doubt that Samuel also meant this to serve as a premonition f Saul's soon death. He was so afraid not only of the Philistines, now his fear was by the words of Samuel that he was completely deprived strength and vigor, which was reinforced by a lack of nourishment. After the women met his needs he returned to his camp to await his doom vv. 21-25,.
Now there are questions about Samuel's clothes. Obviously age and clothing do not exist in the realm of the Spirits of those who have died, but God miraculously gave such appearances so that Saul was able to perceive that the spirit was Samuel.
---MarkV. on 7/6/09


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So mima the demon would tell the truth and not decieve the witch.

when does the bible say we can trust demons?

The Bible says GOD refused to answer Saul. But you seem to be saying the witch could overule the will of GOD and force Samuel up from the grave and make him answer Saul against the will of GOD. Is that what you are teaching?
---Samuel on 7/6/09


Believers of the Old Testament were saved based on the promise of a coming redeemer. They were saved on "credit" if you will, since Jesus paid for their sins at a later date.
As for Saul, the Scripture mentions that Samuel was awakened and asked him why Saul disturbed him. It never indicates that this was a demon or something else posing as Samuel.
The Bible is full of paradoxes. Was this, in fact, Samuel? Did Saul, who at one time was annointed King, go onto Heaven after falling out of God's favor? What about David after committing adultery or Solomon after committing idolatry?
I guess those of us who are saved will find out!
---Tom on 7/6/09


Saul went to the grave, period.
Heaven as a place, for man, has yet to be established. That place will be established when Jesus returns to earth to rule. Heaven is where the Father abides.
Therefore Heaven as a state of being, for man, was established within man when the comforter [The Father's Spirit set apart for the enlightenment of man] was sent to indwell man. Taking man mentally and spiritually to a higher level that transcends the sensual through the faith of Jesus. A faith that calls those things that are not [seen] as though they were based on the principles and promises of the Father. "Removing [within] those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain".
---Josef on 7/5/09


Mima: You are telling us that Saul saw the real Samuel. That is a very dangerous view point. It implies that the dead are not really dead and it implies that God was wrong in taking the kingship away from Saul for consultinng a witch. You are on dangerous ground with your interpretation.
---Pierre on 7/5/09


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Besides the fac hat the dead don't go anywhere when they die I think it is fair to say that when Jesus comes back, Saul will most likely not be part of the first resurrection!
---Pierr5358 on 7/5/09


Some say it was not Samuel at the witch brought but a demon, however the witch herself thought it was Samuel. And we are given another helpful hint as to why it was Samuel and not a demon. Samuel himself asked, why have you disturbed me indicating Samuel was resting, and we are certain the demons are not resting.
---mima on 7/5/09


Warwick, you did not read my response carefully enough. Elijah was not dead when he went to heaven. I was only speaking of the dead. Enjoy your day!
---eric1968 on 7/5/09


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