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Israel Saved Through Christ

Why do some here believe that Israel will be saved some other way than through Christ?

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 ---miche3754 on 7/14/09
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---Rod my sympathy and admiration for the Jewish people is brought about because of the persecution of them by the world. Also I realize that they being set aside(temporary on a back burner) by the Lord Jesus Christ was for our benefit, that we might be saved!!!! If you read Romans 11:15 perhaps you will hear Lord whisper a complete revelation that this veres makes.
---mima on 8/5/09


By the way Kath, what does you being a jew have anything to do with this topic?
I was a gentile before coming to Christ.
I know for a fact that Israel will be saved the same as me and you were.
BUT Right now the OT Israel is hidden. It is not the Israel everyone keeps looking at.
OT Israel was divorced by God because of unfaithfulness. God will remarry them through Christ.
Promised land is with Christ right now.

THanks larry! God bless you!
I am still studying in this topic but the more I do the more I understand that God has a very big plan for us all.
---miche3754 on 8/5/09


mima, who I have great respect for, made a challenging statement on 7/28."I am not Jewish, but have great sympathy and admiration for the Jews."
I hold ALL people with great sympathy and admiration. Is this the same level of sympathy and admiration one should have for another believer (household of faith)?
I have been in Jerusalem for a week and will be in Israel for two more weeks. To hold a people in admiration who deny Christ, trust in a religion that denies Christ, and makes one fearful to speak out for Christ, is a challenge. People are people and all need to come to the knowledge of Christ. I have sympathy for Jews, because of their treatment in the second world war, but I also have sympathy for all who need Christ.
---Rod on 8/5/09


Kath,

The old covenant was cut off by Christ's ultimate sacrifice on the Cross and a new one was given at his resurrection.
You are almost there sis.
The new covenant is NOT with flesh and blood like the old covenant is. The New covenant is with the Spirit. You know already that all are saved through Christ Spirit in us.
Israel will become part of Christ. HE is the true covenant God had made with them. The Abrahamic Covenant was ultimately fulfilled by Christ being born and sacrificed.
Again, you forge that God gave Israel the Promised land. They sinned and God scattered them. Now, it is hidden in Christ.
---miche3754 on 8/4/09


Thank you Miche and Kathr. Its nice to read the thoughts of brothers and sisters in Christ who obviously study the word to show themselves approved. Timothy would be proud.
God bless.
---larry on 8/4/09




Miche, think ,I am a Jew, an individual saved by the Grace of God, baptized into His Body.

Israel on the otherhand is talking about a NATION. A whole nation is not going to be baptized into Christ.

The grafting back is into the Abrahamic Covenant, concerning the LAND and National blessing....you know, that OTHER promise God made to Abraham and JACOB's descendents. That TOO is an everlasting Covenant. God cannot break His everlasting Covenant Promises. That promise was not given to Moses under the Mosaec Covenant, and was not disgarded with the Mosaec Covenant either

The BRIDE, you see in Revelation 19 on will have already had the wedding and is coming back with Christ when ALL ISRAEL will be saved and the 1000 years begin.
---kathr4453 on 8/4/09


kath,
now I realize that you and I are talking about 2 entirely different things.
You are speaking about Jesus 1000 year reign while I am talking about Christ return for his bride and HOW OT israel will be saved.
You must realize that OT Israel must become part of Christ's Bride to even be saved by Christ right?
No one is saved any other way.
Israel will be grafted back in AFTER the fulness of gentiles has come into Christ.
That is what makes us all one. Once Israel is grafted back, they aren't Israel in the sense you see them. They become part of the Bride.
By the way, the 1000 year reign is a peaceful one for those in Christ. Not peaceful for those still in sin.
---miche3754 on 8/4/09


Luke 19:29-31: "And it came to pass, when he was come nigh to Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount called the mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples, Saying, Go ye into the village over against you, in the which at your entering ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither. And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him."

It will be judgement day and still some will be found waiting for the King to come. Did he not come?
---Nana on 8/1/09


Do you really believe that God is going to give israel an earthly kingdom in the place he is going to destroy?
NO.
---miche3754 o


Miche,again for only 1000 years, Jesus will be KING on the Earth....

Zechariah 14:9
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth:( DOES NOT SAY NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH HERE)) in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Then when teh 1000 years are up, 1st Corinthians 15 conclude, the Kingdom will be delivered up to God that He may be all in All.....

Yes Jerusalem will be REBUILT!!
---kathr4453 on 7/31/09


Please print..

Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming((# 2064 (( # erchomai))))in the clouds of heaven.

1Th 5:23 the coming ((#3952 parousia)) of our Lord Jesus Christ.

THE SON OF MAN is a Title KING, and is never used by the CHURCH .
Revelation 14:14
And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

The SON of MAN is coming in Judgment!

Our Lord Jesus Christ IS NOT Coming for His Church/Bride with a sharp sickle!
---kathr4453 on 7/31/09




Mark E. Let me first say that I am not an expert in the end times. That said, I was hoping you would shed some light on my questions. I know you read about what "coming" means in Matthew 24:29,30 and verse 36 also 1 Thess. that coming in those two and other passages mean "Second Coming" because that is what the greek word coming means. And since there is a Second Coming mentioned in Scripture in many places, and so is the Day of our Lord and the catching up of believers when Christ comes, how do you reconcile the passages of one Second Coming?
I must be missing something. Thank you brother, blessings
---MarkV. on 7/31/09


Kath,
I know the diference between the rapture and Jesus second comming.

And I know about Jesus passing judgement.
What I am trying to get you to look at is this.
In the end, the earth that we know will be gone.
God is going to make a new one for us.
That is why we are told NOT to store up our treasure here. This all will pass away.
Do you really believe that God is going to give israel an earthly kingdom in the place he is going to destroy?
NO. The bible says so. THe Bible says all this is passing away and that God is going to make it new. Not come conquer and then pass out what is left to israel or us.
He is destroying all of it then making a new one.
---miche3754 on 7/31/09


Israel will be saved by Christ at the end of the appointed time where God lifts the veil which he put over them as part of his master plan for the season of Gentiles.
His redemption began and will end with Israel from which he will rule for a thousand years.
Its not Washington, London, Moscow or Shanghai but Jerusalem.
---larry on 7/30/09


Are you saying again that Christ will come 2 or 3 times?...Miche,***

The Rapture is NOT the second coming. Jesus is not touching down to earth at that time. The Church will be caught up with Christ, and then 7 years of tribulation will come upon the earth, the WRATH of God, and the Church is not called to God's wrath, but we are SAVED IN CHRIST from the wrath to come.

The second coming is Jesus coming to earth IN JUDGEMENT and to set up His earthly Kingdom for 1000 years promised to EARTHLY Israel. They will still be flesh and blood entering an earthly Kingdom called the Kingdom of Heaven..on earth as it is in Heaven.

The Kingdom of God...flesh and blood cannot enter, and is IN YOU.
---kathr4453 on 7/30/09


Kath, I am not making the same mistake as Israel did.
You just aren't seing it.

God is only going to rescue his people and his people are identified as having Christ in them as their savior. 1 people, not 2.
Israel will have to accept Christ as their savior to enter just like we do. If they don't, then they won't be saved.

This has been what I have been trying to get you to understand. Israel and gentiles are grafted into Christ the vine becoming one people.
There is not 2 sets of people. There are only those in Christ and those not in Christ.
Are you saying again that Christ will come 2 or 3 times? Please explain. My Bible says he will return 1 more time. Thats it.
---miche3754 on 7/30/09


But we see Israel missed it....didn't understand the FEW scriptures and rejected the suffering servant...because He just wasn't KINGLY enough! ......
---kathr4453 on 7/30/09

John 4:12
Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

kathr...this lost sheep of Israel didn't miss it. Nor did millions upon millions of others "lost Sheep" of House of Israel....or we wouldn't have churches today.
Judah...missed it. Judah...will never = All Israel.
---Trav on 7/30/09


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Miche:

When God gave a tract of land to Abraham in Genesis 17:8, it was physical land. The land of Canaan, with physical dimensions and boundaries, see Gen 15:15-21. God gave it to him and his decendants as an everlasting possession. Period. Nowhere in Scripture does God take it away from them. It may be "trampled under foot by the Gentiles" as described by Jesus in Luke 21:24, or the people scattered into other nations, but it is still their land and recognized by God as so.

How you connect this gift of God to the new Heaven and new Earth, I have no idea. When will this new Heaven and new Earth arrive? Kathr is referring to the millenial reign of Jesus. Does the new Heaven and new Earth arrive before that?
---Mark_Eaton on 7/30/09


Another thing I see is that the other views has Matthew 24:29,30 with no explanation on what happens to those who are left behind once Christ comes to rapture the Church at His Second Coming. Matthew stated it would be like the days of Noah. Just a comment to my brother Mark E.
---MarkV. on 7/30/09

MarkV, what Happens??? It's in Zechariah 12-14 as to what Happens, also in Revelation, Isaiah, Ezekiel etc. 1000 Years...satan will be bound, Christ will Reign and Rule as KING, AND the Government will THEN actually be upon His shoulders!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/30/09


Miche, in the OT are two comings of Jesus, one of KING and one of redeemer. However, the suffering servant only has very few scriptures..however still there..Isaiah 53.


But we see Israel missed it....didn't understand the FEW scriptures and rejected the suffering servant...because He just wasn't KINGLY enough! They made fun of Him at Calvary, placing on His head a mockery crown "King of the Jews"


The NT also has those few scriptures concerning two comings...one for His Body, the Church, and one as KING of the JEWS coming in ALL His Glory.

Don't make the same mistake Israel made and mock the rapture.

Without understanding the Rapture, you will never understsnd these two entirely different comings!
---kathr4453 on 7/30/09


Miche, you are correct in asking, how many Second Coming are there? And what happens to the New Heaven and the New Earth? If Christ is coming in the rapture and then He is coming again later after tribulation, and then He comes again on the Day of the Lord to bring judgment, that is three coming. It seems some of the coming don't count as comings.
Another thing I see is that the other views has Matthew 24:29,30 with no explanation on what happens to those who are left behind once Christ comes to rapture the Church at His Second Coming. Matthew stated it would be like the days of Noah. Just a comment to my brother Mark E.
---MarkV. on 7/30/09


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So, Mark E. and Kath, are you saying that CHrist will come twice?

And are you saying that these are lies?

Revelation 3:12
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God, and I will also write on him my new name
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea

These say new, not renewed.
This is the land that is promised, not the one you keep looking at in the Mediteranean.
---miche3754 on 7/30/09


Zechariah 9:9: "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion, shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation, lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass."
Matthew 11:2-4: "Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: ..."
Is it written somewhere that He "that should come" is to come twice, even thrice?
---Nana on 7/29/09


Of course. From the beginning up to now all elect people Christ already paid their sins. Christ death on the cross is only demonstration for us how Jesus suffered and died from the foundation of the world. Matthew 25:24, Col. 1:8 and Luke 3:16. Thats is why Moses and Abraham ect...was save by Christ since they were born bec of election of Grace.
---ROSALIE on 7/29/09


The thing is it will be a NEW one. Not on this earth as we know it. When Jesus comes all that we see will be no more.Miche***


Miche, did you read Zechariah 12-14. I KNOW you didn't just by your last statement. For 1000 years...a very very short time in God years, actually 1 day for Him, Jesus Christ will reign as KING, and rebuild Jerusalem. Also f you read to the end of Zechariah, those who refuse to come and worship the King in the rebuild earthly Jerusalem will have their water cut off ..NO RAIN. Now please tell me, is this YOUR Idea of how Heaven will be....rebellious people that need to be warned? Certainly not.

The Millenniem will be ruled with a ROD of Iron, The New heaven and earth will not!
---kathr4453 on 7/29/09


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Miche:

Sorry girl, cannot agree with you.

Jer. 30:3 "For behold, days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will restore the fortunes of My people Israel and Judah. The LORD says, I will also bring them back to the land that I gave to their forefathers and they shall possess it".

Exek 37:21 "Say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD, Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land".

Amos 9:15 "I will also plant them on their land, and they will not again be rooted out from their land which I have given them, says the LORD your God"

God still sees it as THEIR land.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/29/09


New Heaven and new Earth, Rev. 21. As far as I read there is still a city named Jerusalem and still a physical land underneath it. That land will still belong to the decendants of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/28/09

The thing is it will be a NEW one. Not on this earth as we know it. When Jesus comes all that we see will be no more.
He will establish a NEW kingdom and it won't be on this earth.
This is the land that is promised.
---miche3754 on 7/29/09


Also Mike,
Verse 25 "...that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, and so all Israel will be saved". Once the fullness of the Gentiles is completed, Israel will return to God and will be saved.
Talking about the people NOT the land.
Gen 17:8 "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God".
Was fullfilled (Moses) remember.
But because of disobedience, it was taken from them and they were scattered. Only tribe left is Jews(Judah). All will be reconciled through Christ. Christ wil return and establish NEW land, New Heaven and Earth.
---miche3754 on 7/29/09


Genesis 17 is called the Palestinian Covenant,an everlasting Covenant made for Jacob's descendents.

There is another promise given to Abraham, that of a son...Isaac. WE the Church are blessed with Faithful Abraham concerning his son, through whom came Jesus Christ, the SEED. A type and shaddow of Christ, laid on an alter etc.

This is OUR Blessing. When Paul explains this in Galatians, the blessing that comes on the Gentiles is the HOLY SPIRIT through His Son, not land.

The covenant with Moses was not an EVERLASTING Covenant, but a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. and is done away in Christ .

God promised Abraham physical descends land..

Read Genesis 49 and the promises to Israel in he LAST DAYS!
---kathr4453 on 7/29/09


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Genesis 18:17-19: "And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do,
18: Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19: For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment, that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him."
---Nana on 7/28/09


Miche:

You had a whole lot going on in your post, let me see if I can address the points.

New covenant. The covenant that was "replaced" is in Exodus 34, not Genesis 17. The covenant in Exodus 34 was with all the people of Israel and it was about the LAW and obedience. The covenant in Genesis 17 was with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and it was about the LAND and circumcision. This covenant is still in effect.

New Heaven and new Earth, Rev. 21. As far as I read there is still a city named Jerusalem and still a physical land underneath it. That land will still belong to the decendants of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/28/09


Exzucuh:

What prophecy are you referring to?

Gen 17:8 "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God".

This is a promise, not prophecy. Everlasting, the same as our salvation. Never to be revoked, never broken, promised by God.

This is no lie of the devil. These are the Words of God. To say that God has changed His mind or changed the meaning is incorrect. It would invalidate His word and invalidate our salvation. God would no longer be God.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/28/09


Mark E, I am sorry but I must disagree with you and agree with Exzucuh.
The promised land is not on the earth as we know it. It is with Jesus and when he returns to claim his bride he will bring it with him.
See Exzucuh's post.
A NEW Heaven and A NEW EARTH.
The old will pass away. This i the word of God Mark E.
If you don't believe me, research it further in the Bible.
The promised land is not physical land.
God broke that covenant and established a new and better covenant. One that is perfect. And it is through Jesus Christ. The only way, the only door, the only path.
---miche3754 on 7/28/09


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Israel will be saved through Christ!!!
To those who are answering this question may I suggest again to give close attention and a little meditation to Romans 11:15
" 15-For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? " Contained in this verse I believe is a deep secret concerning the state of Israel!!
There is a Jewish scholar named Arthur Katz who has been shown the meaning of this verse.
I am not Jewish, but have great sympathy and admiration for the Jews.
---mima on 7/28/09


There is no more Promised land the new Jerusalem is in Heaven with Jesus and will come down with him at the second Coming there will be a new heaven and new earth that will be populated by those who inherit it through Jesus by being born again and being Bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh, so to speak. They were born out of his side. While he slept on the cross The Father took of his Spirit and made him a bride a church out of the water and the blood that poured from his side. Adam was flesh made of the earth but the second Adam is the Lord from heaven, that which is born of flesh is flesh but that which is born of Spirit is Spirit.
---exzucuh on 7/28/09


Matthew 11:9: "But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet."
Matthew 11:13: "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."
And what did John say?
"O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."
From then, ethnos, erets or ferrets gives no one a free pass.
---Nana on 7/28/09


Do not get Pauls hope for Israel mixed up with prophecy, If they do not repent and believe on Jesus they will never be saved. An if you or others do not preach the Gospel to them you are in rebellion against Christ. What you believe is a lie from hell to keep you from preaching to the Jews and to make you disobedient to the Gospel, The devil gets Jews and Christians with one false doctrine.
---exzucuh on 7/27/09


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Exzucuh, Miche:

I must disagree with your assessment that the Land is no longer promised to Israel.

Rom. 11:1 "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be!...". God did NOT divorce His people. What happened then? Verse 25 "...that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, and so all Israel will be saved". Once the fullness of the Gentiles is completed, Israel will return to God and will be saved.

Gen 17:8 "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God".

God has not revoked an everlasting promise.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/27/09


Trav,
I understand what you are saying and disagree with you. Others agree with you but do not understand what you are saying.
---Nana on 7/23/09

What verses say otherwise. Prophet backed, Nana. That is what the foundation is laid with.
We've been taught otherwise....but....scripture after scripture nullify's the popular beliefs.
---Trav on 7/26/09


Trav, what you are suggesting is the Christ only came for those people, "the lost sheep of Israel" and that does not mean that all of them will be saved, but only the one's who will confess Christ as their Savior. And those happen to be the elect. He will make a new covenant with them, opening the door for them to come to Christ. As you can see they hardened their hearts, but at the fullness of the Gentiles all those who are of the elect will come to Christ.
---MarkV. on 7/25/09


Trav,
I understand what you are saying and disagree with you. Others agree with you but do not understand what you are saying.
---Nana on 7/23/09


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Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." The Jews aren't special anymore.
---Betty on 7/22/09


And "all Israel" refers to all the elect Jewish people alive at the end of the tribulation, .... remnant has already embraced the truth of the gospel.
---MarkV. on 7/22/09
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

If you will look Heb 8:8 says the House of Israel.....and Judah. One should realize that Is Ra EL consisted of ll other nations. Around 20 million or more is the estimate. The largest lost group of people in history....yet YAH knows where they are.
Amos 9:9
For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
---Trav on 7/22/09


Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Salvation was to them first but they rejected it.
---exzucuh on 7/22/09

He come to his own....Judah...but, they would have him not

John 1:11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

The Nth House of Israel ....would have him....they are the lost sheep. They are the woman at the well...the ten blind, the lepers the 5000
---Trav on 7/22/09


Bob, I too believe Trav is correct. "Until the fullnest of the Gentiles has come" Until, refers to a specific point in time, "fullness" refers to completion, "has come in" translates a Greek verb often used to speak of coming to salvation (Matt 5:20, Mark 9:43, 45, 47, John 3:5, Acts 14:32). Israel's spiritual hardening (which began with rejecting Jesus as Messiah) will last until the complete number of elect Gentiles has come to salvation.
And "all Israel" refers to all the elect Jewish people alive at the end of the tribulation, not the believing remnant of Jews within the church during this church age since the remnant has already embraced the truth of the gospel.
---MarkV. on 7/22/09


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If you will read Romans 11: carefully you will find that Paul was not telling us of unconditional salvation for Israel but warning us not to be like them or we would become like them and be broken off. He said very plainly if they repent they will be grafted back in.

Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Salvation was to them first but they rejected it.
---exzucuh on 7/22/09


fulness of the Gentiles has come in, and thus ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED, just as it is written,

I heard this taught once and I believe the pastor referred to the fulness of the Gentiles ?
---Bob on 7/20/09

Bob, note that after it says fullness of (ethnos,nations) has come in.......All Israel shall be saved.
Note Heb8:8, Jer 31:31. The lost sheep of the house of Israel...divorced....lost their married name of Israel. He would call them by a new name. This mistranslation/ misnamed gentiles...were Israel the other 11 nations. Context testifys.
All prophets give witness to this. We can stand with prophets or against prophets. Interesting to note who is willing to do either.
---Trav on 7/21/09


Romans 11:25,26 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in, and thus all Israel will be saved, just as it is written,

I heard this taught once and I believe the pastor referred to the fulness of the Gentiles coming in as the rapture. Any thoughts on the subject?
---Bob on 7/20/09


When God makes a covenant it is forever but man breaks Gods Covenant. His new Covenant is to the Jew first, they rejected it, And they will be lost because of their hard hearts.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:20-21 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not, I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
---exzucuh on 7/20/09


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Hebrews 8:6-9 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith,

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt,
because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
---exzucuh on 7/20/09


Kathr wrote
However when JESUS CHRIST, yes the Risen Christ is returning, and when Israel does say" Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord" they will be saved, by One Jesus Christ...the DELIVER( JESUS CHRIST) coming out of Sion Romans 11. Budda isn't going to save Israel, Jeus Christ is!

Now concerning the CHURCH...no WE don't have any physical land promised to us...

Amen and Amen sister.
People miss the point about Israel. Its not now under the veil that counts as much as God's ultimate plan which returns them to him at the most important time - the end times.

Its the western hemisphere that is insignificant in end time prophecy.
---larry on 7/20/09


There are some who believe that Israel is saved because of the Abrahamic Covenant. They say that God promised Israel the Land and are His Chosen People even if they don't believe in Christ. A person who calls himself "Pastor John Hagee" has stated this position. It's called a "Two-Covenant Theology." If one is to take the Abrahamic Covenant as a "Forever" literal statement, it leads to this conclusion.
It is challenging to interpret what is literal, and what is an allegory, simile, metaphor, or parable. When the topic is eschatology, nobody is consistent in what is literal and what is similies or metaphors.
---Rod on 7/20/09


Kath,
Sis, why don't you understand that God fulfilled his promise to OT Israel?
They made it to the Promised land, & turned from God so he "divorced" them, scattered them. The Messiah came, didnt recognize him.

When they realize truth, theyll come to God through the only door- JESUS. They will get a new promised land- Eternal life with Christ.
Its only a matter of time before they join us in Christ. We should be praying, looking for it. Because thats 1 of the signs to the end.
It won't be the Nation of Israel like we think.
Exzucuh, Mima, amen to both of you. It happens to be what my overser preached on Sunday too. People trying to use a different gate instead of the Straight Gate- JESUS!
---miche3754 on 7/20/09


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The idea that Jesus is the only way to heaven will be severely diluted. This idea is close to "replacement theology" it is also the outgrowth of the philosophy of toleration. Let us be tolerant of all beliefs, let us have globalization, let us mix and mingle, are all attempts pointing to the same end, the watering down of the staunch perfect word of God that" no man cometh unto the Father except by me" this statement having been made by the Lord Jesus Christ.
As the end nears notice the diluting the demoralizing taking place about us.
---mima on 7/20/09


***Christians that believe that there is another salvation other than by the Name of Jesus are deceived by Antichrist Doctrine.***


Absolutely, and won't the Hindu, Islam etc, really be surprised here!!

However when JESUS CHRIST, yes the Risen Christ is returning, and when Israel does say" Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord" they will be saved, by One Jesus Christ...the DELIVER( JESUS CHRIST) coming out of Sion Romans 11. Budda isn't going to save Israel, Jeus Christ is!

Now concerning the CHURCH...no WE don't have any physical land promised to us...

How sad so many false religions believe they can be saved and go to heaven apart from Jesus Christ.
---kathr44453 on 7/20/09


You are welcome, Miche3754, Christians need to
get their focus on the church and getting right before the Lord. The enemy always causes
a diversion by getting the church to follow ideas that get them off track. WE are to pray for Israel to be saved just like the rest of the world because if they do not turn to Jesus they will perish. The remnant of Israel was saved in the early Church that first believed on Jesus. They came to Jesus and was saved and will be resurrected to live upon the earth again Just like Ezekiel prophesied, the same as all other nations that are saved.
---exzucuh on 7/20/09


Thank you exzucuh!

And no the promised land in the new testament is with GOD. Not Israel the nation everybody is trying to lift up.
The land of milk and honey is no more until Christ comes back.
The ten tribes were scatered. The people you think are israel in the nation of israel are not the real israel.
And the doctrines you are following are promoting falsehoods about the nation of Israel. They are lifting them up when they are not the true Israel.
The enemy has already started to blind people to this and it is really sad.
---miche3754 on 7/19/09


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Christians that believe that there is another salvation other than by the Name of Jesus are deceived by Antichrist Doctrine. The bible tells that the church will fall away into perdition and believe fables. They will have the spirit of Judas that is on Israel now and
sell the doctrine of the true gospel of Jesus Christ for lies like Esau sold his inheritance.
This new perdition is like Absalom trying to take the kingdom of his Father and abusing his wives as this doctrine of perdition abuses the bride of Christ. They are promoting the sin of Balaam that offers things of the flesh to entice The church into sin and worldliness.
They are the Tares that is sown by the enemy.
---exzucuh on 7/19/09


When are you going to realize that the land spoken of is not physical land but CHRIST!

It is a literal land.

Gen 13:14-15

(v14)And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:

(v15)For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
---Meira on 7/17/09


Trav, ...Romans 11 and the famous branches broken off metaphor.
The Gentiles - All the world that were not Jews.
(1) It broke down the harrier which had long subsisted between them.
(2) it made it consistent and proper, as they had rejected the Messiah, to send the knowledge of him to others.
---larry on 7/16/09

Larry, I try to cover too much ground in the word limit. Sometimes the pun's aren't punny.

You...I believe would not go against a prophet.
Based on this as foundational...let us believe what they testify too. And search from that perspective.
The wall was between the two houses of Israel.
---Trav on 7/17/09


Zechariah 8:23
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Interesting that number ten. -- Trav


It is a reference to the 10 scattered tribes of Israel. Remember the tribes were scattered among the gentile nations because of their sin. It is a prophecy that Elohim's people will return to living by his instructions.
---Meira on 7/17/09


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Lawrence- Any Jews who don't accept Jesus Christ as Saviour are doomed unless they repent.
---Betty on 7/17/09


When are you going to realize that the land spoken of is not physical land but CHRIST!Miche***


Miche, when are YOU going to realize the Land spoken of is literal.

When are you going to realize the LAND Jerusalem is where Jesus is coming at His second coming, and the Mount of Olives is LITERAL? Zechariah 12-14!

Whe are you going to realize the battle of Arm...is not taking place IN CHRISTS BODY, but on land....here.

When will you realize the 1000 year reign is on earth...not IN CHRIST'S BODY?

When are you going to realize when the wicked are taken away and burned...Matthew 24, it is not theh wicked IN CHRISTS BODY.

Stop spiritualizing away the literal....it makes no sense!
---kathr4453 on 7/17/09


The NATION Israel will be saved through the Great tribulation, brought back to THEIR LAND God gave THEM.-kath

When are you going to realize that the land spoken of is not physical land but CHRIST!
You understand the comparison of God bringing Israel out of Egpyt to God bringing
you out of sin, but you don't understand a Spiritual prophecy.
This is the same thing, kath.
It is not a physical promised land that Israel will receive. It is the same "promsed land" that Christ provides for us ex jews and gentiles- Eternal LIFE.
Understand that the verses you keep speaking of are Spiritual NOT fleshly.
"All that are Israel are not Israel"-Paul the apostle.
---miche3754 on 7/17/09


Trav, its hard for me to follow your spelling, abbreviations, grammer and syntax but I believe you have made a common error that needs perspective. Go back to Romans 11 and the famous branches broken off metaphor.
The Gentiles - All the world that were not Jews. The rejection and fall of the Jews contributed to the introduction of the Gentiles in the following manner:
(1) It broke down the harrier which had long subsisted between them.
(2) it made it consistent and proper, as they had rejected the Messiah, to send the knowledge of him to others.
(3) it was connected with the destruction of the temple, and the rites of the Mosaic Law. (Barnes)
---larry on 7/16/09


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Trav, Anyway, when Romans 11:25 is fulfilled Jews will be most effective of witnesses---larry on 7/16/09

Larry, lets read closely below...Romans context tells us that these gentiles were the Nth House of Israel that were divorced...losing their married name. Verse 26 proves by saying....All Israel..
As it was written refers to prophets. Now I'm not going against a prophet. Many do...but will......

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until full number of Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

Reading Schoeman... he does not find Nth Israel only Judah. Blindness resulting in error.
---Trav on 7/16/09


Zechariah 8:23
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Interesting that number ten.
---Trav on 7/16/09


In the OT the Church was hidden. In the NT Israel is hidden. Miche**

Miche in the OT the Church was not even Formed. The Church was Hidden with God In Christ from before the foundation of the World, now revealed, and began on the day of Pentecost. The Church consists of both Jew and Gentile making ONE NEW MAN...no longer a Jew or Gentile. That one New Man is not a NATION In Christ becoming the New Israel. This was the same mistake the Puritans made.

The NATION Israel will be saved through the Great tribulation, brought back to THEIR LAND God gave THEM. The Church is NOT a NATION ,have no promised Land....and we were never scattered through out the world due to disobedience to be brought back.

Please know the difference.
---kathr4453 on 7/16/09


The Jewish people, God's First chosen have been Born-Again According to Acts 2 v's 37-41 which Fulfills Matt. 28 v's 19-20 on the day of Pentecost delivered to the Jewish people First by Apostle Peter & some Jewish people since the day of Pentecost. This Very Same Salvation Plan was brought to us gentiles by Apostle Paul. (The trinity people deny this.)
After the rapture takes place (the calling away of those that are called by His name, the Name Is applied when being water baptized in The Name Jesus Christ). Jesus Christ will return to His First chosen people the Jewish Nationality,there will be one hundred & fourty-four thousand that will be saved.
---Lawrence on 7/16/09


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Larry, Meira, Betty...
Amen to you all. Most excellent observations!
---miche3754 on 7/16/09


Trav, since the spreading of Jews after the second destruction of the temple many things have changed, but its apparant the biblical definition of Jew would be those who worship the Father but not the Son as opposed to those who are just born Israelis.
Anyway, when Romans 11:25 is fulfilled Jews will be the most effective of witnesses.
Under God's plan they suffer most, as did his son, for the salvation of the world.

John 4:22 "salvation is of the Jew"

BTW, there is an excellent book entitled "Salvation is of the Jew" authored by Roy Schoeman . It might help.
---larry on 7/16/09


Kath,
you have implied that they will be several times because you don't understand that the Church-BRIDE of Christ includes ALL who will believe and be saved by Christ. Including Israel.
ALL in Christ ARE ONE BODY. There was no replacement of the Church for Israel. They are one and the same. WHY? Because there is only one door. Only ONE savior. And that is Christ.
In the OT the Church was hidden. In the NT Israel is hidden.
You just don't understand that, kath.
The Israel everybody keeps looking at is NOT the OT Israel. The OT Israel was scattered among many nations for disbedience to God.
---miche3754 on 7/16/09


Only those who keep the commandments and have faith in the Yahushau (Jesus) as the Messiah will enter the eternal rest-whether gentile or israeli. Revelation 14:12
---Meira on 7/15/09


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Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. There is no other Name given under Heaven whereby we must be saved - Jesus Christ. Most Jews reject Jesus & look for a different messiah & they will not be saved unless they repent & call on Jesus Christ for salvation.
---Betty on 7/15/09


Miche, who has said Israel will be saved any other way than Christ? I've heard no one say this.

Are you saying you don't believe Israel will be saved spoken of in Romans 11?

Who do you think the deliverer is in Romans 11? It's not Budda.

Miche, my understanding is...you don't believe in the Millenniel Kingdom Reign, or the Rapture of the Church. There is the problem.

If you did believe in the Rapture, the Body of Christ being removed before the Great Tribulation....then you don't believe many too will be saved through the Great Tribulation after we're gone.


If Jesus didn't/doesn't cut those days short...no one left will be saved!
---kathr4453 on 7/15/09


Why do some here believe that Israel will be saved some other way than through Christ?
Blog Question 7-15-09

Because they have been mislead. Most including me, brought up in denominational background...were taught...in error that Judah/Jews are all Israel. U.S. providing/arming/protecting since 1948 furthered the ignorance.
1.First just because they say they are doesn't make them Judean.
2. Is ra el as a nation in Old Test included 12 other nations besides Judah. They are somewhere. They show up repeatedly in the N.Testament. Matt 15,Heb 8:8, Revelations ends with all of them. There were 12 disciples. The number is significant. Point...Israel has accepted the deal....Judah has not yet...as written.
---Trav on 7/15/09


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