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Make Disciples Not Churchgoers

As Christians (disciples = followers of Jesus) we are COMMANDED by Jesus to preach the Gospel (make disciples NOT churchgoers), heal the sick, cast out demons, and raise the dead (Matthew 10:7-8). Why do most Christians disobey this command?

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 ---Leslie on 7/17/09
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Steven G, you see wrong in others but don't see wrong in you. And yet you are on line just as they are, doing the very same thing they are doing.
They all know there is only one Truth. You do too. But do you have it? That is the question. Are you in the Truth or have you taken a bias additude? It is not for me to know. I am here to spread the gospel of Christ, the Truth as I know it from Scripture, you have a different purpose then me because not much of what you answer is for help but to remind others that denominations are bad and not to join them and do what you do because you were denied a bed to sleep in when on the road. What a reason to go against denominations. Because they hurt your feelings and now everyone of them is bad.
---MarkV. on 8/25/09


MarkV: "If denominations are bad as you say and your way is the right way,..."

There is only one way, one truth and onelife - God's way through Jesus.

MarkV: "why are you here like the rest of the people you don't approve of?"

I don't care too much for blogs, I just don't want to end up in a belly of a fish by disobeying God.
---Steveng on 8/24/09


StevenG says ..."Even here on these blogs, christians claim to know the truth as they see it in their eyes"

Yes you do, don't yuo?

Makes you just like the strictest denomination.
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/24/09


Steven G. You said,
"Even here on these blogs, christians claim to know the truth as they see it in their eyes. If this were not so, there would not be any need for diffeent denominations and these blogs for people to argue their point of view because we would all be one in the same spirit - not counting the atheists."
If denominations are bad as you say and your way is the right way, why are you here like the rest of the people you don't approve of? You are here on line, arguing the same way, what good did it do you? If you really believed in what you say, you would not be online arguing as they do. So it hasn't changed you one bit.
---MarkV. on 8/24/09


Steveng ... I am not saying anything about truth being relative ... I just say that to you it is not relative.

Otherwise how can you say "denominational "church's" fault by marketing their services to seduce individuals into joining their "church" instead of relying on God only"?

then saying ... "It's the case everywhere"

You KNOW the truth ... that all denominational churches are like that. Ever thought that maybe you don't know all the truth?

You criticise the churches for holding varying detail beliefs. (and they do) but you are like the worst of them, because yuo claim to be the only one knowing the whole truth.

Thanks Warwick!
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/24/09




alan: "Well, Steveng ... the "truth" is certainly not relative, but very fixed as far as yuo are concerned."

How can you sit there (if you're sitting there at your keyboard) and tell me that the truth is NOT relative when every denominational church has its own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. Even here on these blogs, christians claim to know the truth as they see it in their eyes. If this were not so, there would not be any need for diffeent denominations and these blogs for people to argue their point of view because we would all be one in the same spirit - not counting the atheists.
---Steveng on 8/23/09


Donna66: "Steveng -- I can't help but think your opinion about "denominational churches" must be based on very limited (but apparently very unpleasant) experience."

Forget about my experiences. There are people in the world who do nothing but satisfy the will of God and bring the people of the world messages from God. Remember, God contacts people through people. The need for prophets today, especially today, is very great. Christians have set thir eyes on other gods instead of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. they have taken a detour off the road to the Kingdom and it takes a prophet to bring them back.
---Steveng on 8/23/09


There is coming a time, but it is here already, that the words of prophets are not heeded and, therefore, the last two prophets will have a greater impact than all the minor prophets put together walking the earth today. Not one christian recognize these prophets and will even mock the two prophets in Revelation.

Christians need guidance, not from denominational "churches, but from God himself. These denominations have weakened the words of God and who are, in fact, trying to appease the people of the world with a watered down version of scripture that will be more attractive to build the number of members. If the elect can be fooled, how much more the christian?
---Steveng on 8/23/09


If a person really wants to follow Jesus they will grow up in Christ no matter what church they Go to. Jesus preached in the synagogues, Luke 4:14-15 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
They received him at first but as time went on
they rebelled against his teaching and forced him out of their churches. They would not grow and follow Jesus, at one point his disciples left him, 70 of them, All come to a testing place with Christ. They must decide if they will go on with him or fall away into perdition.
---exzucuh on 8/23/09


MarkV Thanks!
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/22/09




Tom2>> people,even so called saved,dont realize that there is no life unless you are following christ.This temporary shell,ehr flesh ,is not life.

>> I understand your point Tom, and to a point, you are correct. But when we believe in Messiah, when we identify with his death and resurrection...one of the things we do is get baptised. What we are doing there is being immersed into his death (and thus being washed of our sins similar to a Mikvah) and are "raised to walk in the newness of life." So while true life in him is to come, we are in him now, we are a changed man, a new man... and walk in a new life.

Peace.
Ken
---Ken_Rank on 8/20/09


Steveng .. "It's the case everywhere. We are living in a time when truth is relative"

Well, Steveng ... the "truth" is certainly not relative, but very fixed as far as yuo are concerned.

Have you travelled the world? Have you been to my corner?

Yet you condemn churches everywhere for the faults you have observed in some.
---alan on 8/19/09


alan8566_of_uk: "Why do you mind me asking where you live to have observed such a sad state of affairs?

It's certainly not the case here."

It's the case everywhere. We are living in a time when truth is relative. Ask a certain question to ten different christians and you'll get ten different answer. The same on these blogs.

If my area of the world is in such a "sad state of affairs" would you visit this area? If not, you would be missing out on a great harvest to bring the gospel to. But unfortuneately, the workers are so very few.
---Steveng on 8/19/09


The Bible says that we can do ALL things through Christ, and with God NOTHING is impossible. This means we can do what Jesus said we can do. It is NOT us doing it, but Christ through us doing it. Those who lack faith in this, the Bible says they are in sin. Also, we have been preaching the WRONG Gospel ("Jesus died for you, loves you, and has a wonderful plan for your life", or "come check out my church") - this is NOT what Jesus preached or told us to preach. We are to preach what He preached and told us to preach - REPENT, for the KINGDOM of God is at hand. This is the TRUE Gospel message we are to preach.
---Leslie on 8/19/09


Steveng --

I can't help but think your opinion about "denominational churches" must be based on very limited (but apparently very unpleasant) experience.

There are thousands of denominational churches. Surely you know that you can't generalize as you do.
Few make any effort to encourage membership. SOME make special efforts to increase attendance, for the purpose of spreading the Gospel. In most cases, if you want to become a MEMBER you have to ask, because rarely will anyone approach you about membership!
---Donna66 on 8/19/09


Steveng ... Thanks for the compliment, expressed in such a Christian way.

You said ""denominational "church's" fault by marketing their services to seduce individuals into joining their "church" instead of relying on God only" ...

Why do you mind me asking where you live to have observed such a sad state of affairs?

It's certainly not the case here.
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/19/09


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Stevenq you talk of being in tune with the Holy Spirit, but you defamed Alan by calling him a 'fool.' He is no fool.

Is this intemperate language that which the Holy Spirit would have you use?

Didn't you complain that I would slander you about something? Isn't that hypocrisy?

When have I ever slandered anyone?
---Warwick on 8/19/09


Steven G, I don't know what really is bothering you brother but you didn't have to make the remarks you made to me and Alan. With me, you imply that the Christians are one in spirit and can understand you, implying if I don't, I don't have the spirit as you do. And turn around and call Alan a fool. Maybe the Holy Spirit can understand you, but you sure don't understand the Holy Spirit. Because your words are not from the Spirit of God. You fail to abide in the Spirit. Relax brother, no one is out to hurt you. Say hello to the Australian brothers.
---MarkV. on 8/18/09


people,even so called saved,dont realize that there is no life unless you are following christ.This temporary shell,ehr flesh ,is not life.
---tom2 on 8/19/09


alan8566_of_uk: "Where on earth do you live?"

You have read many of my past posts, where do you think I live?

You're such a fool. does it really matter? Would that really make a difference where I live? But no matter, you would still have a remark to speak against me no matter where I'm from. You would have a preconceived remark no matter where I'm from whether I was from Australia, New York, India, California, Germany, Iran, Saudia Arabia, England, China, Brazil, etc. If I told you I was not a citizen of the this world, but instead a citizen of the Kingdom of God, you would have a ready remark to make against me because of your skepticism.
---Steveng on 8/18/09


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MarkV: "Steven G, what you haven't considered also is that here on this website we have people from all over the world."

There is only one God - the God of abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - and the Father of all people and who will have all men to be saved no matter what culture or country, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

There is only one truth through the Word of God, through the word of the Holy Spirit.

All the people from all over the world are together in God's plan. The christians one in the spirit can understand me. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
---Steveng on 8/18/09


Steven G, what you haven't considered also is that here on this website we have people from all over the world. So you are going to have comments from many that are different in nature. We have unbelievers, believers, athiest, Mormons, Jehovah Witnessess, Muslims, RCC, Prodestants, SDA's, etc. and so everyone does not come from the same teachings. That is why you have so many different opinions.
What I was refering to is those denominations who have the same essentials of the Christian faith but differ slidely in non-essentials. Still you find genuine believers in denominations and many are just beginning and need discipling from other brothers as Mark E stated.
---MarkV. on 8/18/09


Steveng ... "denominational "church's" fault by marketing their services to seduce individuals into joining their "church" instead of relying on God only"

Where on earth do you live?
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/18/09


MarkV: "Steven G, you are blaming the denominations when it is the individuals who are messing up."

Yes, it's the people fault for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. Also read Colossians 2:8-10.

And the denominational "church's" fault by marketing their services to seduce individuals into joining their "church" instead of relying on God only.
---Steveng on 8/17/09


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Most people do not know how to make disciples. It is not giving altar calls and then forgetting about the people.

Making disciples is outlined by Paul:

2 Tim 2:2 "The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also".

We can only make disciples of men/women we know personally. You must find out if they are faithful first, before you proceed. If a person is not willing, you will find out soon enough.

You must share time with them, teaching them, sharing your testimony, your very life with them. They must learn from experience, yours and theirs, to know and trust God.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/17/09


teachers of christ to all that want to listen, in you is the gift. , set the examples , you take in what knowlede you recieve, the gift deciples to me should spread the words.not,just in side the church,outside the church are the ones,are ones that need to be taught more so than the ones inside,children should be reached now,at birth the relationship with God should began.
---stephanie on 8/16/09


Steven G, you are blaming the denominations when it is the individuals who are messing up. It reminds me of the harsh treatment of Jews by the popes which was really a misunderstanding of Gospel Truth. For, by the Church's own interpretation of the Cross, it was not Jews alone, whether wholly or in part who were responsible for the Crucifixion "but the sin of the world, the sins of the entire race." They looked at Jews, you look at denominations.
That is what you are saying, you are blaming the denominations but it is the individuals who fail everywhere, in and out of the denominations. For many are not saved at all, and many times true Christians fail. That is because of the flesh still with us.
---MarkV. on 8/16/09


Steven G 2: many of the churches that go wrong is because they teach there is apostles and prophets. The very thing you teach. It is no wonder they go wrong. I belonged to a charasmatic church who got a vision from a prophet in Columbia, and for three years the church followed that vision, then another prophet from Florida gave another vision and the church changed and followed that vision. I guess the first vision was wrong. One year later another vision came, and the church changed what they did because of that vision. This only happens when they teach wrong. No man today has the power of a true prophet or true apostle. This people are godly people, that want to do for God, but go outside Scripture to do that.
---MarkV. on 8/15/09


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Christians disobey due to ignorance, pride, lack of love, and fault of confidence in the Lord. We pray, but, it is God who does the miracle, Ephesians 5:20, Colossians 3:17, 1Peter 4:11.
"The lost sheep of the house of Israel": Luke 10:1-20, the seventy, and Matthew 10:1-23, Mark 6:7-13, Luke 9:1-6, the twelve disciples. "All the world": Mark 16:15-18, Acts 1:8, 1Corinthians 12:8-10, Christians.
---Glenn on 8/15/09


MarkV: "Steven G, what I meant is that many have opinions, that is not the issue. You have yours and have every right to have one..."

There is only one truth - the gospel. Can't you see by just reading all these post on these christian blogs that truth is only relative depending on who you ask. If everyone has their own truth, where is the true truth? Everyone can't be all right, can they? Do you think that Jesus should do what He thinks is right, or what truth is to Hi? Most christians on these blogs would juct consider Jesus as having his own opinion. If every denominational "church" have their own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible where is the truth?
---Steveng on 8/15/09


Stevenq I attend a denominational church, and have attended others. I have always been taught Scripture, not denominational politics. There are cults which teach untruth, and that they alone have the truth.

No denomination is perfect. How could it be, it is composed of imperfect believers. However we all have a Bible and can easily compare church teaching to that which is in Scripture.

I am sure there are churches which intentionally or unintentionally teach error and I am sure they deceive the lazy who do not compare what is taught to His word.

I am convinced we must meet as a body. I find my church convenient for that, to learn, to worship God, and to serve. I see no blind followers of man there.
---Warwick on 8/15/09


Steven G, what I meant is that many have opinions, that is not the issue. You have yours and have every right to have one. You don't like denominations, that is your opinion. And since it is your life, you do what you think is right for you. I don't think anyone disagrees. It is when you think everyone else should do what you think is right, or what truth is to you. You can see this in your answer to Alan about what is Truth.
There is lazy Christians and churches that teach falsely, But you also said there is apostles and prophets today helping others, Scripture speaks against that by discribing what an apostle and prophet credenials are. So been away from a denomination didn't stop you from teaching falsely.
---MarkV. on 8/15/09


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Steveng ... I will repeat that your statement:

"Denominational "churches" have suppressed the knowledge of God and His power. They have trained christians to become only hearers of the word, not doers"

is a lie.

Well, perhaps not a lie, because a lie is a deliberate untruth.

Perhaps you really beleive it, in which case it is not a lie.

But it is nevertheless an untruth, and I do suspect that you know that.
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/15/09


MarkV: "StevenG used a lot of words but no Scripture. I hear that all the time from many. They have all kinds of ideas but can never really proof what they say..."

Don't be like most christians - lazy. Be like the Bereans and search the scriptures to see if what I say and write is true. The apostles and prophets rarely used scripture. Just because people like myself don't know exact scripture verse, it doesn't mean we know the concept. We only say and write what the Spirit reveals to us. Many people on these blog demand answers from poster, but how can we answer when the Spirit hasn't revealed the solution?
---Steveng on 8/14/09


MarkV: "The ones... did not witness the resurrected Christ, and there is no way to confirm what they say is coming from the Lord."

It's true that people today have not witnessed Christ, but we have strong faith and the Holy Spirit to reveal things to certain christians (apostles and prophets) that God wants other christians to know or be aware of. God uses His people to communicate with other christians. The apostles themselves wrote letters to the churches they formed when the churches were going in a different direction than what Jesus taught. The apostles and the prophets are here today to keep christians on the right path to the Kingdom of God. Something denominational "churches" have failed to do.
---Steveng on 8/14/09


TheSeg: "How, would you believe?"

How did the godly people in the bible react as they were approached by God's messengers? Knowing comes through faith in which many christians today wouldn't recognize a messenger from God if their life depended on it. Only when a person is one in the spirit with God could they recognize God's messengers. Would you recognize a stranger in need as an angel unaware? Most christians are only hearers of the Word of which the denominational "churches" excell at. It6's when a person becomes a doer when the faith increase a hundred-fold.
---Steveng on 8/13/09


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alan8566_of_uk: "Steveng Why do you persist in that lie?"

How would you recognize the truth?

Because of the way you think you call it a lie. If you were told the truth you wouldn't believe it. It's not your fault, though, Satan is keeping you from the truth.

If Jesus were on these blogs, most of the posters would call him a liar. Or, at the least, think that this person is a nutcase having his own opinions.
---Steveng on 8/13/09


For the record, I just like being clear. If two people came to you, and just said, we have been sent by God. What would they have to do, for you to believe?

Now say they are not allowed to perform signs and wonders, why?
Because of:
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Now because of this, you dont believe them. Are you not part of,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

Joh 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

How, would you believe?
God Bless
---TheSeg on 8/13/09


Mark E, I am with you. StevenG used a lot of words but no Scripture. I hear that all the time from many. They have all kinds of ideas but can never really proof what they say.
Apostle is a messenger or delegate dispatched with orders. Apostles were chosen by the Lord Himself and were endued with signs-gifts and miraculous powers attesting their office (Matt. 10:1, Acts 5:15, 16 16:-18). An Apostle was also an eyewitness of the resurrected Christ (Acts 1:22, 1 Cor. 9:1). Except in the general sense of "messenger" for Christ, apostle have not existed since the early days of the Church.
The ones we have today, did not witness the resurrected Christ, and there is no way to confirm what they say is coming from the Lord.
---MarkV. on 8/13/09


Steveng is quite right when he says "It's the DOING part of christianity that keeps christianity alive. Christians are to go out into the world and preach the gospel - the Kingdome of God and how to get there. How could christians do that sitting in a building?"

But he is wrong in saying that "Denominational "churches" have suppressed the knowledge of God and His power. They have trained christians to become only hearers of the word, not doers"

Steveng Why do you persist in that lie?
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/13/09


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Steveng:

I KNOW I have not missed anything. I study the Scriptures. I know the offices, the gifts, the fruits, the responsibilities. Do not insult me, just to insult me.

I challenged you about the OFFICE of apostle. You never answered that challenge.

You NEVER provided any Scripture to back up your opinion. You have no basis for your statement, no proof other than your own (or someone else's) thoughts.

Why should we listen to your false doctrine?
---Mark_Eaton on 8/12/09


Mark_Eaton: "Unless I missed something, the office of apostle died..."

You have truly missed something - the Word of God and what it says about the duties of christians. Denominational "churches" have suppressed the knowledge of God and His power. They have trained christians to become only hearers of the word, not doers. It's the DOING part of christianity that keeps christianity alive. Christians are to go out into the world and preach the gospel - the Kingdome of God and how to get there. How could christians do that sitting in a building? Do an online KJV bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag" because living a christian life is a 24/7 lifestyle.
---Steveng on 8/12/09


Do you guys, not see your words?
The bible, tell of a time, when this will be!
I look at what Steveng said.
Where it started, where it went and where it is.

Any one who claim to be an Apostle or a prophet!
This is an inclusive statement.
Very good Steveng, you have proven it!
I only look at words, for out of the mouth the heart speaks!
God help us
---TheSeg on 8/12/09


AMEN Mark Eaton. People in the world today who claim to be an Apostle of Jesus Christ is a FALSE APOSTLE, 2 Corinthians 11:1-15.
---Rob on 8/12/09


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#2 No one today can claim to be a Apostle, in the same sense as the Twelve or Saint Paul were, but in reality, we are all apostles (lower case "a"). Today there are many "Apostles" (Bishops/Priests, etc) today (using the word in the general sense) [cf. Eph 4:11], the only difference is that there are not part of "The Twelve", a unique office.

The definition you posted only applies to the office of the Holy Twelve. However, many others were called "apostles" in the Apostolic Era, without having a personal encounter with Jesus Christ or being a witness to the Holy Resurrection.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 8/12/09


Mark Eaton. The word "Apostle" (Greek "apostello": "to send forth", "to dispatch") is used two different ways in the New Testament.

The term "Apostle" was used in the NT in an non-Technical, general sense to identify commissioned representatives of a Church, such as a messenger appointed and sent as a missionary or for some other special responsibility:Rom 16:7, cf. 2 Cor 8:23, Phil 2:25.

Still, the word was used to denote other Christians who had a very special authority [other than "The Twelve"] to passed along the "Apostolic Faith", such Saint Paul (Gal 1:1, 2:7-8, 1 Cor 15:9) and Saint Barnabas (Acts 14:4, 14).

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 8/11/09


Steveng:

Unless I missed something, the office of apostle died with those who knew and followed Jesus.

Acts 1:21 "Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection". This is the definition of an apostle the remaining eleven apostles used.

I see only this definition of an apostle in the NT. Call these others whatever you like but anyone born today is NOT an apostle.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/11/09


You assume much. You don't know the duties of apostles and prophets - dozens have crossed my path over the years. You won't find them part of a denominational "church" because they don't conform to the traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible of their doctrines, but instead only conform to the will of God. Most christians do not recognize these times as the end times because they do not have anything to compare it with. Sure, Scripture compares the end times with Noah's time, but how do you know Noah's time isn't exactly like this very day? Most christians compare the end times to what they read and watch in the movies. Apostles and prophets are very much needed today, but they are few in number. Ezekiel 33:1-9
---Steveng on 8/11/09


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Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree,

(Are we (I say, we) not doing this thing which is done to the fig tree?)
(In so many ways, I see this)

but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea, it shall be done.

(Because)
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
God Bless
---TheSeg on 8/11/09


StevenG:

Why do you continually tell others that they will not recognize - and will even mock - the two prophets mentioned in Revelation?

Do you have special insights that no one else has? Has God revealed to you and you alone something no one else knows?

What do you expect these two witnesses will tell the world?

Unless I miss the mark, they will tell the world about JESUS and about THE FATHER.

There is no other subject they would ever speak about.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/11/09


Seg, God bless. I love the scriptures you gave. But disagree with the application of the passage that someone can move a mountain. Those passage Matthew 21:21 in context Jesus had just mentioned the fig tree, which often symbolizes Israel (Hos. 9:19, Joel 1:7) and the barren fig tree often symbolizes divine judgment on Israel because of her spiritual fruitlessness. The words "If you have faith and do not doubt" presupposes that the thing requested is actually God's will for only God given faith is so doubt free. A miracle at that scale is precisely what the Pharisees wanted Christ to do, but He always declined. Here He was speaking figuratively about the immeasurable power of God unleashed in the lives of those with true faith.
---MarkV. on 8/11/09


Christians are to perform greater miracles
You know, what I look at!

Mar 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy,

Thy sins be forgiven thee,

or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?

I know which one he found easier! Do you?
If you do, then shouldnt you be trying to do the hard one?

Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea, it shall be done.

God bless
---TheSeg on 8/10/09


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Steven G. sorry I don't meet your expectations. Second, no one in any denominations meets it either since they are not taught right as you say. You believe the words in Scripture are for today, and that people just don't get it but you do.
Since you are a godly man, and believe that those gifts are for today, can you give a count as to how many you have brought to life? How many have you healed of cancer? You say others are weak Christians but not you. Your count has to be Zero.
The reason we give glory to God is because He is the giver of life not man. During the apostlic church man were given that power Steven, but that power is not in man today. When a person is brain dead, only God can bring him back.
---MarkV. on 8/10/09


MarkV: "Once Scripture closed there was no more need for many of the gifts given to the disciples and a few others."

You are a person who will not recognize - and will even mock - the two prophets mentioned in Revelation because of your thinking. You surely don't know the duties of a prophet. I've met several who crossed my path as I traveled throughout the United States and Canada over the past thirty five years. Modern day prophets DO exist and continue to do God's will. Most christians will not recognize that we are living in the tribulation because they think it should be worse than it seems. Modern day prophets must warn them (read Ezekiel 33:1-9).
---Steveng on 8/10/09


MarkV: "I have not seen any dead people coming to life on account of anyone other then God."

This is because christians in today's world are weak spiritually.

MarkV: "...Once Scripture closed there was no more need for many of the gifts given to the disciples and a few others."

You are one of the people who will mock the two prophets mentioned in Revelation. Jesus said that when he leaves, christians are to perform greater miracles than he - just to prove the existance of God. Prophets DO exist today to do God's will. (read Ezekiel 33:1-9) Christians are to carry on the christian duty because faith without works is dead faith.
---Steveng on 8/10/09


Ignatius, I am with you. I have not seen any dead people coming to life on account of anyone other then God.
So many things that were done in the early church to start the church are not done anymore. Donna is correct. Once Scripture closed there was no more need for many of the gifts given to the disciples and a few others.
Healings come from God when and where He wants to heal someone. He heals them because it is not their time to die. When its their time, they will die. God has seen the end already and nothing can change that end, or else He see's many ending at once. We are to die once, not many times. Even the people Jesus healed died. He healed them to show He was the Messiah.
---MarkV. on 8/7/09


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Leslie, I unerstand your point. My intent was not to argue with you but simply share what the word means. A disciple (Greek mathetes) means a student or pupil. The word for "follow" is akoloutheo. So while a student can follow Messiah, the intent of the word is to make a student out of somebody. We are to "prove all things" and to "study to show ourselves approved a workman unto God" and we are to "rightly divide the Word of God." These are the actions of a student of the Word, a disciple.

Peace.
Ken
---Ken_Rank on 8/6/09


Leslie! U go girl! Seek ye first the kingdom of god and his righteousness and all these things shall be added unto u. we are to do these works and greater works. The blood of jesus has enabled us. Keep it up girl. I am with u.
---Sunnie on 8/6/09


Cluny and others: "How many sick have YOU healed? How many demons have YOU cast out? How many of the dead have YOU raised? Please tell us how we can verify your claims."

It's none of your business what she can do, but you would still be skeptical of Leslie's claims if she could in fact do everything that you listed. There are dozens of prophets today that do such things but never let it know publicly because it only concerns the people personally involved.

It's this same reason why you would be the mockers of the two prophets mentioned in Revelation because you believe that christians today can't do such things. Jesus himself said that christians are to perform greater miracles than He.
---Steveng on 8/5/09


You can raise a brother or sister from the dead.

Go find yourself a true homelessly troubled Christian man or woman and invite them into your home to live while you determine a way for them to become independant either on government assistance or a job.

You will have in effect "Raised them from the Dead." If you have a spare room, then you can do it. It's not easy. My parents did it once and I've met others that do it regularly. Some times it may take years to get the person raised.

Just telling the dead to find a job isn't so easy for a true Christian. Most jobs are not Christian jobs if you really study Jesus' teachings.
---stephen on 8/5/09


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Ken Rank - As a student of Christ, you follow His teaching and commands - do you not? So student and follower become one in the same. Do you follow the teachings and commands of Christ? You you allow the Holy Spirit to teach you? This is what being a disciple of Jesus is all about.
---Leslie on 8/5/09


Greetings Leslie.

Disciple in Greek in Strong's:
mathe & #772,te & #772,s
math-ay-tes'
From G3129, a learner, that is, pupil: - disciple.

Thayer Definition:
1) a learner, pupil, disciple

The equivalent Hebrew word is Talmidim which simply means student. Modern definitions claiming disciple means "follower of Christ" are just that, modern and defined by those who already have that as a working definition or otherwise define it that way for ideological reasons. Not that a disciple isn't a follower of Messiah, he/she is... but the true meaning is student or pupil.

Peace.
Ken
---Ken_Rank on 8/3/09


Gary, Donna66, Anon, and Ken Rank - 1st Gary - I never said that I keep all the commandments (you misquote me), I said I try to do so. I am still disobedient at times (though not proud of it). 2nd Donna66 - You are in disobedience to God. 3rd Anon - Are you a follower of Christ (disciple)? If so, these things are COMMANDS, NOT options. If you do not do them, you are in disobedience. 4th Ken Rank - I don't know where you get your info. from, but the TRUE Biblical definition of disciple IS follower of Jesus and disciplined one.
---Leslie on 7/31/09


Disciple = follower of Christ is not accurate, no offense intended. A disciple, according to both the Greek and it's Hebrew counterpart (talmidim) simply means student or learned one. The context simply implies one who learns about or becomes a student of, Messiah.

Peace.
Ken
---Ken_Rank on 7/30/09


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The true disciple wants nothing but to see God. Anything hindering that should be discarded.
---sri.ramakrishna on 7/21/09


Leslie, WHERE are you getting your theology?

We are not commanded to Heal the sick, cast out demons and raise the dead. Those are not Jesus's commands, but are gifts of the Spirit flowing through us THROUGH prayer and fasting.

We are commanded to Love the Lord thy God with all of thine heart, soul, mind and body.

If you think Jesus commanded us to heal, raise the dead, then YOU go do that..if that's what the Lord is telling you...that's not what my bible says Jesus is commanding. We are commanded to Love the Lord Thy God with all of thine heart, soul, mind and body is FIRST and FOREMOST. He wants our hearts, not our actions, not our service, you got your theology all mixed up.
---anon on 7/20/09


Leslie -- As already mentioned, many Christians do not believe they are to heal the sick, cast out demons and raise the dead
as was done by Jesus in His day. Many believe we have medical science that accomplishes much the same type of things.

The difference between "disciples" and "churchgoers" is not as clear to a lot of people as it is to you. Churchgoers may indeed be, or become, disciples as well.

You may call it "disobedience"... but you could give some of these people the benefit of the doubt, without compromising your beliefs, and call it "misunderstanding".
---Donna66 on 7/19/09


Do you heal the sick, cast out demons, and raise the dead? How many have you heal, cast out demons, and raise the dead? Have people got heal from just walking in your shadow, as Saint Peter? Have people been healed, deliver from demon procession, by your relics (ie.., handkerchiefs, etc) as Saint Paul? Have you drink anything deadly which did not hurt you (Mark 16) (for example rat poison)? Have you take up serpents?

Do you have any reliable (unbiased) source to back you up? Let me know, then I will tell you about me.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 7/19/09


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Good points, Cluny, especially since Leslie is the one who says she obeys ALL of the commands. Come on Leslie, when was the last time you raised someone from the dead? Date, please?

The Word does tell us we have all those powers, EXCEPT raising the dead. And even though that command was given to the 12 disciples, I don't recall reading where any one of them ever raised anyone from the dead.

The verses quotes were directed ONLY to the 12 disciples, not us. However, all but the raising from the dead is mentioned for us elsewhere.
---Gary on 7/19/09


disciples,believers,born again fruit bearing [ep[le,are different than those that live with 2 minds and are just attending services.
---tom2 on 7/18/09


Because it is easier to make churchgoers. To make disciples requires heart commitment. To heal the sick, cast out demons, and raise the dead requires believing (these signs shall follow them that believe). Faith uses God-given authority to make a difference.
---Linda on 7/18/09


I believe it is a matter of ignorance on the part of believers, not disobedience.
---Trish9863 on 7/17/09


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because most christians are lukewarm.
---tom2 on 7/17/09


How many sick have YOU healed?

How many demons have YOU cast out?

How many of the dead have YOU raised?

Please tell us how we can verify your claims.
---Cluny on 7/17/09


In your heart, you can do it, by desiring for God to have you do this. But others must obey and have faith in order to benefit.

Also, we have the Sermon on the Mount to obey. Why don't we have people challenging us about *this*? Ones make a big thing about healing, casting out devils, preaching, raising the dead, but how about how the Sermon on the Mount says to love? You didn't say anything about how we are commanded to be in God's love. This would come first, before doing outwardly showing things.

And, of course, when the disciples first got this command to preach and work wonders, they were not exactly very real in how Jesus says to love.
---Bill_bila5659 on 7/17/09


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