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Are 10 Commandments In Force

Why do some Christians insist that the Ten Commandments are no longer in force for them? Is there any biblical evidence that Jesus taught such rebellion?

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 ---jerry6593 on 8/9/09
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Lee: Try to focus. I asked two questions:

Does polytheism, idol worship, taking the name of God in vain, etc. have anything at all to do with "love of neighbor?" Do you personally practice these abominations?

A simple yes or no to each would suffice, but in your characteristic fashion, you answered neither, but launched out with some tired, unrelated drivel. Care to try again?
---jerry6593 on 8/17/09


//Does polytheism, idol worship, taking the name of God in vain, etc. have anything at all to do with "love of neighbor?"

You really cannot deny the fact that your argument is really with what God says in His word.

In the simpliest of terms, He states -

[The commandments, You shall not commit adultery, not murder, not steal, not covet, and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We are left wondering if you consider those first 3 commandments in the Decalogue as not being laws?

You need to get away from those that disturb you.
---Lee on 8/16/09


"Since love of neighbor fulfills the law this verse is really an anathema to those who would have us observe laws that have nothing to do with love of neighbor such as their dietary laws and required beliefs in their peculiar doctrines."
---Lee on 8/13/09

Does polytheism, idol worship, taking the name of God in vain, etc. have anything at all to do with "love of neighbor?" Do you personally practice these abominations? If not, then your behavoir is anathema to your stated belief system!
---jerry6593 on 8/16/09


Matthew 5-7 chapters show that Yahushua's view of the Law in detail.

1 John 5: 1-4 outlines practice of Commandments.

No one is perfect, but that does not mean we continue to transgress God's Laws. Relligious leaders of that time obscured the Law with additions and subtractions, just as Christians do today. That's where the Holy Spirit is the main force to help us live a holy life in obediance to His words. Living faith is works in action. James 2:20
---Yochanan on 8/15/09


Samuel, if you believe Rom. 3:31 you should know the Truth. Paul knowing he would be accused of antinomianism (which means against the law) for arguing that a man was justified apart from keeping the law, Paul introduced here the defense he later developed in chapters 6,7, "through faith..we establish the law" Salvation by grace through faith does not denigrate the law, but underscores it pure importance by providing a payment for the penalty of death, which the law required for failing to keep it, and by fulfilling the law's original purpose, which is to serve as a tutor to show mankind's utter inability to obey God's righeous demands and to drive people to Christ, and by giving the believers a capacity to obey it.
---MarkV. on 8/15/09




Gina - understand what you are saying regarding the law, howbeit, Galatians 3 tells us that the law was but a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ that we may be justified by faith.

Once that function of the law is accomplished, it has little or no further use. The believer thereafter is in Christ in which there is no condemnation. (Romans 8:1).

I think that is what Gary is trying to tell us.
---Lee on 8/15/09


Was the early church which no longer observed the Sabbath by the end of the 1st century in error?
*****

WHICH early church? ...rcc under Simon Peter Magnus or remnant of Spiritual Church

WHICH Christ? pagan christ of rcc GIVEN by men inspired by god of this world 2Corin 4:11, 4:4 ...or Christ who established his Spiritual Church of which he is HEAD and LORD of the Sabbath HE always observed and his Apostles did LONG after he was dead

rcc BOLDLY disobeys God and proclaimed her own sabbath on sun-day and all who follow this day follow her ...rcc BOLDLY tells all her PROTEST-ants daughters God never changed or abolished HIS Sabbath and by dismissing His Holy Sabbath one is disobeying God to follow the MOTHER Rev 17:5
---Rhonda on 8/15/09


Nana - Re Eph 6:2:

"Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,)"

Yes, there is a reference to the fifth commandment, but this is merely instruction in the New Testament.

That's why I have said that Christ's law and the ten commandments are similar, or even the same in many cases.

---Gary on 8/15/09


"Ephesians 6:2 is NOT quoting any of the ten commandments."
Gary on 8/14/09
What? Care to explain your position Sir? Better yet, never mind the question as you never mind and ignore much that is obvious.
Lee,wayne,Francis,larry,markV and Samuel,
You are the proud parents of Gary, a child without a home!
---Nana on 8/14/09


Alan I concur.

Though we are not saved by the 10 commandments, in fact are condemned by them as sinners, can we disobey them? As you say we can't.

But that raises a problem. Why do we wilfully disobey the Sabbath commandment? I don't observe the Sabbath, but I do wonder about this.

Maybe someone has the answer.
---Warwick on 8/15/09




How many scriptures do you need to tell you the law ENDED at the cross!!!!!
---Gary on 8/11/09

"Do we then make void the law through faith. God Forbid! Yea, we establish the law" Romans 3:31

"Sin is the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4

"Do not commit adultery" "Do not kill" "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty" James 2:10-12

"I had not known sin, but by the law, for I had not known lust, except the law had said, "Thou shalt not covet"" Rom 7:12

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just and good" Romans 7:12
---Gina7 on 8/14/09


Jesus meets man to bring him back to fellowship w/Father

*As High Priest, Jesus meets us

*1st stop Calvary to accept Christ as our substitute for sin "The Lamb of God" (alter sacrifice)

*Next stop,baptism at laver of water

*We must remain in court(earth) and by faith rest in ministry of Jesus as High Priest in heaven

*Christ finishes atonement by blotting out sins in judgment, which provides man with complete restoration/fellowship w/the Father
---Gina7 on 8/14/09


Francis - congrats on your book!

While God does not change (Hebrews 13:8), is it not true that He deals with His creation in terms of Covenants?

Is not a covenant a legally binding agreement between parties and whatever is not in a covenant cannot be binding but can only be optional rather than mandatory?

Since the Sabbath is not even suggested as a command in the New Covenant of the church, how then can it be binding on the church?

Was the early church which no longer observed the Sabbath by the end of the 1st century in error?
---Lee on 8/14/09


alan8566_of_uk - Yes, we are NO LONGER under the ten commandments. But NO, we cannot murder, steal, etc. because now we are under the NEW TESTAMENT LAW - the Law of Christ.

If I now steal, I have NOT broken the ten commandments because they don't apply to me, but I would be breaking the Law of Christ.
---Gary on 8/14/09


I have written a book which in part adresses this subject of the ten commandments. It is called The Image of God in This Generation. serving and worshiping an unchanging God. because god does not change his love, or his mercies or even his words, the ten commandments must still be obeyed today.
Remember that God did two things with the ten commandments: (1) He spoke it out loud so that it was heard by two or more witnesses, and (2) He wrote it on two tablets of stone a symbol of lasting forever.
If it is true that we serve and worship and unchanging God, whose word is above His name, then we must continue to obey the ten commandments. FOr indepth bible text on the subject read my Book: The Image of God in This Generation.
---Francis on 8/14/09


Wayne, Wayne, Wayne...you missed the lesson of redemption (no one can keep the law). That is the entire reason for God in the flesh in Christ. The Torah is not wrong its incomplete for salvation without Christ. Further, Jesus or Yeshua fulfilled the law not by teaching it but applying it to the inner man.
Fulfillment moved lust to its core beginning of the heart where in days of yore the sin and penalty were external only.
From where did your disdain for Paul "the Hebrew of Hebrews" originate?
---larry on 8/14/09


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//The whole book of Romans is showing us that the law ended at the cross.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The Author here is telling us that our rigtheousness is not in ourselves but in Christ - that since He has fulfilled the law on our behalf, His righteousness is accredited to us.

This is reflected in the doctrine of justification.

Howbeit, I believe that the Holy Spirit that indwells the believer works within to transform us into the image of Christ, making the church a suitable bride for Him.
---Lee on 8/14/09


Lee you always talk about SDA ignoring history. Yet you ignore the fact that the Jewish people added parts and phrases to their ceremonies to keep Christians out.

The early church was first composed of Jews and GOD Fearers. The second group kept sabbath and beleive in one GOD. But they had not been circumcised. So all of the early church people were already keeping Sabbath even before they joined the church.

romans 3:31 says the law is established by grace. You say it is done away with by grace. Should I not choose to believe scripture?
---Samuel on 8/14/09


Gary ... are you saying that we are no longer bound by the 10C?

Do we now no longer have to love our neighbour as ourself?

Can we now commit murder, steal or neighbours wife, lie ?

Sounds pretty good to me!!

You can behave as you like ... and you're saved too!

Surely you don't mean that?
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/14/09


Why is it that everyone runs to Paul, I guess Paul is your master. And as of yet no one has answered my questions about Paul? Why? Everyone runs to Paul and use his writtings so they can break God's commandments, but refuse to answer questions about him. So I will ask again.

Why does Paul tell his conversion story differently each time he tells it?

Why does Paul use half truths when he quotes scripture?

Why does Paul say its ok to eat food sacrificed to idols, even though the council at Yerusalem said its not ok?
---wayne on 8/14/09


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Gary -//The whole book of Romans is showing us that the law ended at the cross. You have missed the whole point of the book.

Through Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone who believes(Ro 10:4),moral law as expressed in the Scripture should characterize Christian behavior.

You would be out of phase not only with the Lord but with the rest of mankind, if you disregard moral law. Paul also states that we do not make void the law thru faith but we establish the law (Ro 3:31).

I believe the letter of James clearly makes the point that we need to live righteous lives, particularily when it comes to the needs of our neighbor.
---Lee on 8/14/09


Lee - The whole book of Romans is showing us that the law ended at the cross. You have missed the whole point of the book.
---Gary on 8/14/09


Wayne - while Christ told us that we need to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, minds, and strength, and our neighbor as ourselves (Mt. 22,37f), Romans 13 ties it to the commandments, essentially telling us that we express our love toward God by our relationship to our neighbor.
---Lee on 8/14/09


Nana -

Acts 15.21- For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.

It is clear that these Sabbath meeting where Moses was read were Jewish meetings. 1) they were places which have been established 'from ancient generations' 2) they are synagogues, 3) they are 'in every city'.

These characteristics do NOT fit early Christian assemblies, many of which met in homes (cf Rom. 16:5, 1 Cor. 16:19, Col. 4:15, Phil. 1:2).

The idea that Gentiles were to go to the Jewish synagogues to receive instructions on Sabbath keeping is totally ludicrous.
---Lee on 8/14/09


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Reuben - //Lee, do you eat Pork? If so then you should read Isa 65:3-6 and Isa 66:17.

That section in Isaiah deals with the disobedience of the commands God gave to Israel in that they were to be a separate people from all others for the purpose of being a royal priesthood to all the nations.

//For He said 'If you love Me keep My comands'.

His commands from the Old Covenant given only to the Jewish people or of those in the New Covenant of the church?

As for foods, have you ever read Romans 14 or perhaps Mark 7:18f where Jesus declared it is what goes into the heart that defiles, not what goes into the stomach?

We have contradictions if you believe OT laws not found in the NT are applicable.
---Lee on 8/14/09


Gary, I believe you hit the nail on the head with your answers. It seems to me that all who follow the law or argue for the law, argue as person's without the Holy Spirit. As a work of value to them for been good. In all of their answers they follow this system of believe. I did that and you don't, attitude. The mind set is wrong.
They never give credit to the Holy Spirit working through them. As if they are not endwelled by the Spirit at all. A humanistic view of taking credit. The others view the works of the Spirit accomplishing the duties of righteousness through the believer as you mentioned in the end of your post. For the believer, the glory should always go to God.
---MarkV. on 8/14/09


Lee- What Iam pointing out is the fact that Yahoshua said the law and prophets hang on 2 commandments not just one. And Paul is only quoting one, so this is a half truth. We need to follow all of what Yahoshua taught, which is the Torah, we cannot pick and choose.
---wayne on 8/13/09


Nana said, "YOU are not offended by Ephesians 6:2 but are offended in it being part of the ten commandments?"

No, I am not offended by the ten commandments to begin with. They have nothing to do with me.

Ephesians 6:2 is NOT quoting any of the ten commandments. And I am not offended if a NT command is a "don't."

None of this "offends" me.
---Gary on 8/14/09


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"I am filled with the Holy Spirit. Therefore, I do not need any laws. The Spirit guides me to do God's will. Those who need the law are obviously NOT filled with the Spirit."

I'm guessing, now: that was your answer to my question?

Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God...
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Obviously, there's still law.

"The Bible IS the Word of God, and it does NOT contradict itself IF you are interpreting it correctly."
---BruceB on 8/14/09


"Since love of neighbor fulfills the law this verse is really an anathema to those who would have us observe laws that have nothing to do with love of neighbor such as their dietary laws and required beliefs in their peculiar doctrines."
---Lee on 8/13/09

Does polytheism, idol worship, taking the name of God in vain, etc. have anything at all to do with "love of neighbor?" Do you personally practice these abominations? If not, then your behavoir is anathema to your stated belief system!
---jerry6593 on 8/14/09


"You really need to know your church history...", "Nana - It's obvious you don't understand what Acts 15 is all about"
Lee,Gary,
I am not a Judaizer. I eat pork chops and do not observe the 'Sabbath' as such as say, the SDA. James's stand on Moses remains, Jesus was seen talking with him, even Luke 16:27-29. As for do's and do not's, YOU are not offended by Ephesians 6:2 but are offended in it being part of the ten commandments?
Both parties must ensure the baby is NOT trown with the bath water. Anything teaching or ensuring faith, justice and mercy IS THE BABY! (Matt 23:23,Gal 4,18).
---Nana on 8/13/09


Wayne -//You quote paul who says love of neighbor fulfills the law, strange? Yahoshua says Love of God and love of neighbor , why does Paul only quote a half truth here????

Both are the words of Jesus, are they not?

One shows love toward God by the way one treats his neighbor.

Mt 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.

Hope that this helps.
---Lee on 8/13/09


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Romans 10:4 (KJV)
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Those of you who think one part of the Bible contradicts another part of the Bible have obviously misinterpreted something. The Bible IS the Word of God, and it does NOT contradict itself IF you are interpreting it correctly.

I can see that some of you have been blinded by false teachings and nothing any of us say will help. Only God can show you the truth.

I am filled with the Holy Spirit. Therefore, I do not need any laws. The Spirit guides me to do God's will. Those who need the law are obviously NOT filled with the Spirit.
---Gary on 8/13/09


Since love of neighbor fulfills the law ...

laws that have nothing to do with love of neighbor such as their dietary laws and required beliefs
Lee on 8/13/09

Lee, do you eat Pork? If so then you should read Isa 65:3-6 and Isa 66:17

That is not just singleing out pork only but all unclean foods are an abomination to YHWH.
And it may be true that the food laws have nothing to do with loving your neighbor but it has EVERYTHING to do with loveing YHWH. For He said "If you love Me keep My comands"
Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
---Reuben on 8/13/09


Lee- You quote paul who says love of neighbor fulfills the law, strange? Yahoshua says Love of God and love of neighbor , why does Paul only quote a half truth here???? And yet you say Yahoshua is your master.
---wayne on 8/13/09


I find it strange how christianity goes against the very God they claim to love and worship. Christians tell the world they are not apart of the world, yet being just like the world they live without law(Torah) even though the very Messiah they profess said to keep the law and the prophets. Christians claim to worship the God of Israel, He who said there is one law for the Jew as well as for the Gentile, yet they claim not to be under it. Christians claim the opposite to everything the very God they say they love says.They use the word of God to oppose the commandments of God! Are you sure you worship the Elohym of Yisrael???????
---wayne on 8/13/09


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'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.---Lee

Thank you Lee for quoting the Torah.

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD(Leviticus 19:18).

As you see, it is commanded and necessary to love your neighbor as yourself in order to fufill all the aspects of Torah -which simply means "Yah's instructions".

Can you tell me which of his instructions are so evil that we are free to disregard them? Then why do you keep telling to disregard the Sabbath?
---Meira on 8/13/09


Yochanan- Thank you for the nice comment. You as well have brought up many good points, but the so called believers here are doing exactly what Peter has said, they twist Paul and the rest of scripture to thier own destruction. They say Paul gives them the excuse not to follow the Torah, but Paul always taught the Torah on Shabbat, he had Timothy circumscised. He says he never offended the law in any way. Its a proven fact the scriptures have been altered to follow a pagan doctrine, history proves this, YHVH in Jer says the lying pen of the scribes have changed them. But these so called believers wont look at any proof, they would rather hold on to pagan beliefs then the scripture they profess to belive in.
---wayne on 8/13/09


"Gal. 4:4-7 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who WERE under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons."

Notice "those who WERE under the law" NOT those who "are" under the law.

Since "were" is the past tense of "are," it can only mean that we are no longer under the law.
---Gary on 8/13/09


In any case, are the 10 commandments applicable for today?

Romans 13:9-10 The commandments, You shall not commit adultery, not murder, not steal, not covet, and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Since love of neighbor fulfills the law this verse is really an anathema to those who would have us observe laws that have nothing to do with love of neighbor such as their dietary laws and required beliefs in their peculiar doctrines.
---Lee on 8/13/09


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What is interesting to me is that the 10 commands sum up all 613 commands. Each of them can be filed under one of the 10. Those 10 can be broken down into 2, the "Big 2" shared by Messiah. But neither was a new thing, BOTH those commands are repeats from Torah.

Messiah said in Revelation 22:14 that only those who do the commands will have a right to the tree of life. Messiah's own words in Matt 5:17-19 shows multiple times in those verses that the Law (Torah) is not dead and gone.

Without Law there is lawlessness, something the end times will be full of.

Peace.
Ken
---Ken_Rank on 8/13/09


Nana - It's obvious you don't understand what Acts 15 is all about. Start reading from verse 1. This was the problem with the early church. The law keepers were confused and thought they were supposed to keep the law. This created a problem between the Gentiles and the converted Jews.

The book of Acts reinforces that the law ended.
---Gary on 8/13/09


Nana - //Even so,James had no problem with Moses: Acts 15:21:

James was head of the Hebrew faction of the early church which continued to practice all the law of Moses including temple worship, circumcision and observance of the feasts including the OT Sabbath.

After James was murdered by the Jews, his brother Simeon became the head of the Jerusalem church. It was Simeon who fled with that church to Pella in 70 A.D. However, the Romans wiped out most of that church, thereafter the leadership passed to the Gentile church which did NOT practice Judaism including the OT Sabbath nor were they ever obligated to.

You really need to know your church history to understand these things.

---Lee on 8/13/09


Gary,

A question: Who wrote the Ten Commandments?

The law of Christ is NOT similar to the Ten Commandments--He is the FULFILMENT of the Ten Commandments.

What you've stated is that murder is not acceptable: whether the OT law tells you this, or whether Christ's fulfilment of that OT law tells you this, is really irrelevant.

Did God not say He would write His laws within "our" hearts and minds? Don't be confused with some notion that Jesus came to destroy the law... for without the law, we would not know sin. Of course, that law is now written beyond mere stone tablets.

You're not one of those who think the law serves no purpose: are you?
---BruceB on 8/13/09


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good point wayne-
The issue in Pauls letter may lie in what Peter said in his midrash 2 Peter kjv

16 also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

It seems to warn people about lawlessness(Torahlessness). Even Romans 6 shows Paul was not lawless. He was against the interpretation of Moshe by the "usual suspects" that Yahushua had problems with.
---Yochanan on 8/13/09


"Gal. 4:4-7 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons."
Lee on 8/12/09

Even so,James had no problem with Moses:
Acts 15:21: "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."
And of course you know that the Gentiles were never "born under the law"?
---Nana on 8/13/09


If we are truly sons and daughters then we should be obeying YHVH's Torah out of love as Yahoshua did. Stop with the excuses of not being under the law. Those of you who use Paul as your excuse to not follow the law answer this: Since you trust in Paul over Yahoshua then explain why Paul describes his conversion story different each time he tells it?

Why does Paul say its alright to eat food sacrificed to idols even though James said it wasnt?

Why does He call the law holy and good then change and say no one can be justified by the law? If any of you can be honest and answer these I will ask more.
---wayne on 8/13/09


Gary - //Christians are under the LAW OF CHRIST, not the OT laws. Those who continue to put themselves under the law WILL BE CURSED BY THE LAW, AND THEIR FAITH SHALL HAVE NO VALUE. PERIOD.

A good point -

Ga 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.

The New Living Bible is more blunt -

Ga 3:10 But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scripture say,"Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all these commands that are written in God's Book of the Law" Deut.27:26
---Lee on 8/13/09


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//I will say it again: Jesus was born, lived, and died under the OLD TESTAMENT laws.

Scripture attests to that fact.

Gal. 4:4-7 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, 'Abba! Father!'So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.
---Lee on 8/12/09


BruceB - NO, it's not alright to whack someone.

In the New Testament, we are under the law of Christ. Under the law of Christ we are not allowed to murder, steal, etc. etc. But under the New Testament, if I steal, I have broken the law of Christ, NOT the ten commandments. There is a difference.

So many get confused because the law of Christ is similar to the Ten Commandments.

Those who really have the Spirit will not want to do wrong. They don't need laws to tell them what not to do.

The OT law is full of do nots - don't do this, don't do that. The law of Christ tells what to do.
---Gary on 8/12/09


It is obvious from reading the blogs here that many of you don't seem to understand when the Old Testament ends and the New Testament begins.

The FOUR GOSPELS ARE STILL THE OLD TESTAMENT UNTIL JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS. Every time Jesus spoke, you must determine whether He was speaking to FUTURE Christians, or to the people under the law.

I will say it again: Jesus was born, lived, and died under the OLD TESTAMENT laws.

If you don't understand that, you will definitely be confused.
---Gary on 8/12/09


Deuteronomy 8:3: "And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know, that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live."

Matthew 4:4: "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

In light of the above Scriptures, what does Luke 16:27-29 mean to teach?
---Nana on 8/12/09


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Ex 20:13 Thou shalt not kill [commit murder].

But I suppose that since were not under that OT law stuff, anymore... it would be perfectly OK to whack someone.
---BruceB on 8/12/09


I have no idea. Jesus taught that not one word of the old testament would pass away,he did teach that he came to replace the law with salvation by his atonement for sin by dying in our place,and thru our individual acceptance of him God will write his laws in our hearts.
---tom2 on 8/12/09


Wayne:

Jesus did not tell us to obey the Law. Please show me where Jesus tells his disciples or us to obey the Law.

He told us to obey HIS commandments, to abide in HIS words, to eat HIS flesh, to drink HIS blood.

Obedience to Jesus is what we need, not obedience to the Law. His commandments are the Law and the Prophets all rolled up.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/11/09


Jesus was born, lived, and died UNDER THE OLD TESTAMENT LAW. Of course Jesus upheld the law.

The Word is so very clear that the death of Jesus ended the law. The law was nailed to the cross. Those living by the Spirit are no longer under the OT law.

How many scriptures do you need to tell you the law ENDED at the cross!!!!!

Christians are under the LAW OF CHRIST, not the OT laws. Those who continue to put themselves under the law WILL BE CURSED BY THE LAW, AND THEIR FAITH SHALL HAVE NO VALUE. PERIOD.
---Gary on 8/11/09


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From what I see here on these blogs, so called believers are getting more and more rebellious against YHVH. Yeshua upheld Torah while those who say they believe say they dont need it. Yeshua upheld the law ( not the man made part of it) yet so called believers say its done and over, nailed to the cross. Alot of the problem besides what they have been taught is this, the bibles in use are mostly translated wrong. Such as the teaching of Yeshua being raised on sunday. The Greek text says Mia ton Sabbatton which means early on the regular Sabbath. But the bibles say early on the first day of the week. Yes this was done on purpose so you would keep pagan days holy.
---wayne on 8/11/09


So called believers here refuse to believe what Yeshua has said. They would rather follow man made doctrines, why? Yeshua warned he would say to those who are lawless, I never knew you. But most do not think He could ever say this to them. Its time to wake up people. Follow YHVH's Word, and the Meshiach He sent to save you. If you believe then your actions should show that by keeping YHVH's commandments.How can you say you believe but break the commandments. Better read the Epistles of John instead of useing Paul and twisting His sayings to your own destruction.
---wayne on 8/11/09


No, Jesus taught no such rebellion. You can take a few verses out context such as Ephesians 2:15 (abolishing in his flesh the law of the commandments) or Matt 5:17 (think not that I cam to abolish the law) and come to the conclusion the bible is contradictory or make a religion out of one verse or the other.
Fulfillment of the law added the heart and soul to what was formerly only external, such as coveting or lust.
Its important to remember the word of God is truth regardless of the era and we do not teach against truth. Its one thing to discuss adherance to a Jewish custom and another to discount God's own words. Please, don't go there!
---larry on 8/11/09


"The Spirit will guide you to a much higher level than any law ever could. The law is for law breakers. That's why it didn't work.

Those who hang on to the law think they need the law, and doing such, are lost."
---Gary on 8/10/09

Make sense of these Scriptures, Gary:
Luke 16:27-29: "Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren, that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them."
---Nana on 8/11/09


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If a person truly is a new creation, they are a SPIRITUAL entity (have a spiritual identity) and exist INSIDE the body of Christ (TRUE life, no longer a "6th day creation") and are sheltered/protected from the "sin" laws/commandments.

It is still possible for a new creation to commit WRONGDOING (if they are careless) and need The Lord to lovingly teach them the error of their way, but their wrongdoing will not fall into the category of "sin".

The sin laws were abolished by The Lord so that "sin" wouldn't disqualify us from entrance into heaven (but we still have to answer for any refusal to repent from "wrongdoing").

Live by the perfect law, James 1:25.
---more_excellent_way on 8/10/09


Ephesians 2:15
"abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments".

New creations have true life inside the body of Christ...
Acts 17:28
"In him we live and move and have our being".

In ancient times (the old way of worship), the priests had to repeatedly make offerings for the cleansing of the sinner, but Christ made a FINAL and permanent cleansing for all who are spiritually inside His body....

Hebrews 10:2
"no longer have any consciousness of sin".

...but if you've only turned to The Lord for spiritual healing (instead of deep love for Him), you'll never truly understand...

John 12:40
"and turn for me to heal them".

Verses from RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 8/10/09


If someone is living a surrendered life in Jesus Christ, his/her conduct will fulfill the laws(not negate them).He/She is looking unto the only One that directs/leads perfectly. But if someone believes in following the laws without believing in the Lord Jesus, then that person is deceiving Him/herself by rejecting God's saving-plan to overcome sin. The laws give us the knowledge of sin but cannot help us to overcome sin. Jesus gives true believers power to overcome intentional sinning.
---adetunji on 8/10/09


mima - You have it right, again.

Those who follow the Ten Commandments have rejected God's Spirit. The Word is plain. Those under the Spirit are no longer under the law.

The Spirit will guide you to a much higher level than any law ever could. The law is for law breakers. That's why it didn't work.

Those who hang on to the law think they need the law, and doing such, are lost.
---Gary on 8/10/09


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Donna:

You have correctly interpreted the Scripture and the underlying meaning.

The Pharisees were men of the letter of the Law. The intention of the Law had been missed or forgotten by them. They were into the strict adherance of the Law, no matter the consequence. We see this dramatically in the parable of the Good Samaritan.

I think Jerry and others have taken up where the Pharisees left off. Specifically, Jerry wants confirmation of his "letter" of the Law for the specific day of the Sabbath.

But, Jerry has missed the intention of the Sabbath, which is rest from working.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/10/09


I heard this a very long time ago by a very anointed man of God and I believe it: He said when you are in love with Jesus, and your goal is to please the Lord, living for the Lord in holiness, and wanting to obey His word (because Jesus said, If you love me, you'll obey me), he said, the Ten Commandments become Ten Promises and you want to fulfill them out of the deep love you have for the Lord.

Please ponder this man's teaching, it really makes sense. When we are in-love with Jesus, God and Holy Spirit, do we really want to break his commandments? And doesn't God tell us if you keep my word, my commandments, my statues, my ordinances, etc., you will be blessed in all that you do. Don't you want that for your life?
---anon on 8/10/09


Those who labor under the 10 Commandments, which are the ordnance written down that are against us, do not believe in grace. They necessarily believe in works(what they do and did not do). If the 10 Commandments are in full force all are lost. Perhaps we can start a list, if you have kept the 10 Commandments please sign-up. 1.--------
---mima on 8/10/09


"The ten are called 'do nots',that is do not this or do not that.Thus refrain from actions of immoral conduct"

Jesus did not make them negative, but greatly positive:

"Love God and love your neighbour"
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/10/09


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When we pay close attention to what the Bible says and we "do not go beyond what is written" (1 Corinthians 4:6), we can see that the Old Covenant (which included the Ten Commandments) has been canceled, and that we are under the New Covenant. Christians are not under the Law of Moses, we are under the Law of Christ. If we steal something (for example) then we have broken the Law of Christ, but we have not broken the Ten Commandments, and this is where people have gotten confused. Since the Law of Christ and the Law of Moses contain a number of similar commands, people have erroneously assumed that some parts of the Law of Moses must still be in force for Christians. The Old Covenant was canceled.
---Gary on 8/9/09


The ten commandments no longer hold the condemnation that came with them. At least for those who believe in the sacrifice and the redemption that came with our belief in it. The laws are still the laws. If we, as Christians, do not work to follow the laws as the truth of them is revealed to us, we will be judged for our lack of faith. God is not rebellious, so cannot teach rebellion.
A servant of Christ
---treva4538 on 8/9/09


When Jesus came, He did not do away with the Law. But He did add a brand new perspective
...a new way of interpeting the Law.

Mtt24:34-40
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.This is the first and greatest commandment.And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'ALL the LAW and the PROPHETS hang on these two commandments."

As He emphasized to the Paraisees, the SPIRIT of the law meant more than the LETTER of the law.
---Donna66 on 8/9/09


There is NO Biblical evidence for the 10 Commandments being void (no longer valid). Infact the opposite is TRUE. Yes, we are under grace not law, however, we are NOT told anywhere in the N.T. to disobey God's Commands. We are even told in the N.T. that if you do NOT obey God's commands, you do NOT love God or belong to God. We are free from MAN-MADE laws, NOT God's laws - we are told by Jesus and the Apostles to obey God's commands. This is why many Christians are under a curse - they disobey God's commands. Obedience is key to blessing and favor from God.
---Leslie on 8/9/09


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There are actually 613 commandments in the Old Testament.

The real question is why do not the other 603 have force?

Why is emphasis put on only 10?
---Cluny on 8/9/09


The christians you may speak of are semingly misinterpreting the moral intent.
The ten are called 'do nots',that is do not this or do not that.Thus refrain from actions of immoral conduct.
When children are in growth adults and parents will tell them do not this or that.
When adulthood approaches the introduction of a greater method of teaching ourselves begins and this is to 'do something' as compared to 'do not' something.
Jesus began to introduce the 10 commandments alternate instructions in the gospel but was interupted and did not finish but some are there.
Most of the 10 are greed based.We are asked to replace greeds with a greater selfless action.
---earl on 8/9/09


Salvation by the blood of Christ on the cross.

However, once one chooses to follow Jesus, the law is said to not apply but one chooses because of a new spirit to obey the law willingly and not by compulsion.

Is a Christian who steals willingly really a follower of Jesus?

Is a Christian who covets willingly really a follower of Jesus?

And so on...

A Christian can be judged by their works, but if their tongue spews fire and their hands commit evil acts and they lust in their hearts, then are they truly a Christian?

Many false prophets abide everywhere.
---stephen on 8/9/09


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