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Seventh Day Adventist Belief

What Seventh-Day-Adventist belief do you find the furthest from the bible?

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 ---Kella8334 on 8/20/09
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Samuel:
Thank you for correcting the entry on angels, as I miswrote it. An Angel in S.D.A. doctrine is not identical to one in most other Christian beliefs. The word angelos means messenger, and depending on context, can be applied to Jesus, angels, apostles, and general messengers, but the Adventists often misapply its use, and also say that Jesus is the Archangel Michael. They believe that Angels are fighting in the heavens, Ephesians 6:12, and that Angels our involved in preaching (Galatians 1:8 - fallen angels) which are both Christian responsibilities, under the direction of the Holy Spirit, John 15:26, 1Corinthians 2:13. Ellen taught that Angels need a golden card in order to enter and leave heaven.
---Glenn on 8/29/09


Lee: "Much of what I have stated comes directly from the SDA literature."

If you were a truthful man, you would admit that the bulk of what you say comes from personal animosity against SDAs, from discredited former SDAs, and from out-of-context quotes. You have an agenda, and it should be apparent to all.

You still didn't answer my question:

Are you saying that Jesus was slandering you when He said those words (John 14:15)?
---jerry6593 on 8/27/09


//Not only instructive but also apparently very condemning. You be the judge!

Perhaps that ties in with the Bible view of the law as that ministry of death craved in letters on stone, or that ministry of condemnation. 2 Cor. 3:7f

The law can never justify one (make one right with God), as its function is to reveal what sin really is.

Fortunately because of what Christ has done in our behalf we are justified by faith thru His grace.
---lee on 8/26/09


It seemed reasonable to say the Seventh-day Adventist are keepers of the law. (Howbeit the Old Testament law) and as keepers of the law perhaps this verse is instructive,

Romans 3:20,"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Not only instructive but also apparently very condemning. You be the judge!
---mima on 8/26/09


We cannot love Jesus and not love our brethren. ... "As he is, so are we in this world." ... {YI, Jan. 6, 1898 par. 4}
---dconklin on 8/26/09




bill - According to Dr. Kellog and others in the medical profession, Ellen's visions were the product of her own mind generally created after she had read or had discussions with others.

It was her visions that she believed were from God that got her in trouble in the first place, as she had a head injury as a child.

And worst yet, most if not all of her writings can be traced to other authors - books found within her library.
---lee on 8/26/09


The Bible says, "My little children, for whom I labor again in birth until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19) plus, "as He is, so are we in this world." (in 1 John 4:17) So, in *this* world, the Holy Spirit is changing real children of God to become how Jesus is.

Can anyone give a quote of Ellen White sharing about this? Can she be quoted, telling us about how she was discovering that she was becoming because of God conforming her "to the image of His Son" (Romans 8:29)?

Or was she *decoying* attention elsewhere? Actual quotes, please, that we can read here.
---Bill_bila5659 on 8/26/09


Jerry -**Do you really believe that your religion of hate will save you?

Much of what I have stated comes directly from the SDA literature.

While the SDA traditionally judges other Christians by calling them liars if they claim to love Jesus, what else can truly characterize them except hatred toward others.

Of course, one can say God hates sin, but does He also hate the sinner for not observing the dietary laws or the Jewish Sabbath, things not applicable to the New Covenant of the church?

Perhaps you really don't like the medicine you try to feed others.
---lee on 8/26/09


Lee: Do you really believe that your religion of hate will save you?

"And yes, slandering people by labeling them liars because they love Jesus but do not follow all the 10 commandments is truly wrong."

Are you saying that Jesus was slandering you when He said those words?
---jerry6593 on 8/26/09


>EGW claimed to be infallible in everything she said.

You were lied to about that. She never made such a claim and in fact on one occassion she admitted that she got the number of rooms in a sanitarium wrong because she had relied on information she had been given by others.
---dconklin on 8/26/09




//At least Vatican I limited his infallibility. EGW claimed to be infallible in everything she said.

Now we know why Adventists do not wear wigs as their prophetess stated that in doing so will make them reckless in morals.(p. 1815, Healthful Living)

And now we know why they do not fed their children butter, eggs & meat since she believed they act as aphrodisiacs on children (p 217 Healthful Living).

Again, I can easily see why people reject much of what Adventists believe since so much of Ellen White is just plain stupidity.
---lee on 8/25/09


"Whenever I send you a testimony of reproof or correction, you reject it as being merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God."

Just how do EGW's words here differ from Pope Pius IX's, "I am tradition! I am the church!"?

At least Vatican I limited his infallibility. EGW claimed to be infallible in everything she said.
---Cluny on 8/25/09


\\I have lost count of the number of times your alleged biblical and historical "facts" have been proven wrong. Do you seriously believe the things you write, or are you just putting us on? If you believe them, then you need some serious help.\\\

Do you seriously believe that the native Christian of India and elsewhere were actually Sabbathkeepers before Latin missionaries got there, or are you just putting us on.

If you believe this, then you need some serious help.
---Cluny on 8/25/09


Mark, their problem is that it is in their literature. In fact, one pamphlet I have calls non-SDA ministers instruments of Satan since they do not preach the OT Sabbath.

And there are indeed some things in their literature that are really comical. Take for instance, the belief published by Ellen White that wearing wigs can cause of person to become reckless in morals (Healthful Living, p.1851).

I have the book.

But Adventists must recognize Ellen Whites writings as being that of a prophet from God. No wonder they have so many problems.
---lee on 8/25/09


Lee, I am in complete agreement when you say they only want to judge another brother whom Christ has paid for with His blood.
I myself have looked for Scripture where God, not man, declare that He started creation on Sunday and that He rested on Saturday. Cannot find one passage on that. The days of the week were not even instituded before Exodus 20:10, and no where did God say, honor the Sabbath on Saturday only and not Sunday or Monday because then we would be held accountable if we get the wrong day. In Romans 14:5 Paul forbids those who observe the Sabbath (these were no doubt Jewish believers) to condemn those who do not (Gentiles believers). So it is quite clear where this people stand with their laws and self righteous attitudes.
---MarkV. on 8/25/09


//They truly believe they are the only people God accepts and that all others will stand condemned."

Jerry, you should read the SDA literature regarding how Adventists view themselves as the remnant of God - the only ones who truly obey Him.

And yes, slandering people by labeling them liars because they love Jesus but do not follow all the 10 commandments is truly wrong.

And then there is that false labeling of other that truly love and follow the Lord as being Roman Catholic for little or no more reason than the fact they worship on Sundays.

Even Jesus had problems with the law obeying Sabbath keepers, so how much better can His followers expect from their successors.
---lee on 8/25/09


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>The accusers of our Christian brethren have used Sabbath observance to judge the spirituality of others. Rev.12:10

SDA's do not judge the spirituality of anyone, Jesus said "By their fruits ye shale know them." Rev. 12:10 says nothing about the accusers using Sabbath observance as their measuring stick to judge the spirituality of anyone.

God doesn't care which denomination you are in now if you are living up to the truth you know. At the end He will call His people to Him: Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
---dconklin on 8/25/09


Warwick -**As regards the length of the 6 days of creation he has not been able to give one quote which supports his error.

Is my error simply that I can see nowhere in the Genesis account of Creation does it state the first 3 days were of 24 hour duration?

If you can find the number '24' or the phrase '24 hours' in the Creation account, I will grant you your point.

I could care less what you believe about the duration of those days, only that all you have is an assumption as the record does NOT support what you want to believe.
---lee on 8/24/09


C-luny: "The Inquisition didn't make it to India"

I suggest you obtain a translation of Charles Dellon's Account of the Inquisition of Goa, 1684.

I have lost count of the number of times your alleged biblical and historical "facts" have been proven wrong. Do you seriously believe the things you write, or are you just putting us on? If you believe them, then you need some serious help.
---jerry6593 on 8/25/09


Lee: "They truly believe they are the only people God accepts and that all others will stand condemned."

I don't generally answer your continuous, hate-filled, anti-SDA drivel because I know you have SDA family members and neighbors which you despise, so you take it out on all of us. But, this particular lie deserves a response. I doubt that you could find a contributor on this website that has supported the concept of the members of all Christian denominations (including Roman Catholics whom you claim I despise) being eligible for heaven more than I have. Indeed, Ellen White, whom you love to denigrate, taught just such salvational eligibility for all Christian believers. You teach hate for Jews and SDAs. God will judge.
---jerry6593 on 8/25/09


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//You reject the Bible's position.

The Bible's position is we should not make or worship idols. And that is what some have made of the Jewish Sabbath.

The accusers of our Christian brethren have used Sabbath observance to judge the spirituality of others. Rev.12:10

Another position held by the Bible is found in Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike.

It is impossible to observe the Sabbath and 'esteem all days as alike'.

Esteem n: definition

1. high regard: a high opinion and appreciation of somebody or something

2. valuation: judgment or estimation of the worth of somebody or something
---lee on 8/24/09


//They believe they are the remnant church, Sunday worshipping is the mark of the beast, ...

And those are reasons why one prominent Bible Society does not solicit membership or support from Adventism.

They truly believe they are the only people God accepts and that all others will stand condemned.

If they were truly Christian and viewed others as Christian,then why would they ignore the scripture that tells them not to stand in judgment of other Christians?

Romans 14:44 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

But all that comes from the hatred their founder had for His church.
---lee on 8/24/09


Glenn says -" They believe that they are the remnant church, Sunday worshipping is the mark of the beast, non vegetarians wont be raptured, Christ had a sinful nature, Jesus began an additional act of atonement* in 1844, that Ellen G. White is Gods messenger with an infallible gift of scriptural interpretation."
This apostasy noted so well by Glenn is very sad for many are falling away from the faith. These modern latter day messianic figures like Ellen G. White, Charles Taze Russell or Joseph Smith always insert a great deal of their personality into a rewrite or interpretation of scripture.
These cults prove the enemy is alive and well as many fall for lies from the father of lies.
---larry on 8/24/09


"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. 6 days shalt thou labor and do thy work, but the 7th day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God,..." Exodus 20:8-11

God says Remember, to keep it holy.
Those who do not want to, come up with a multitude of futile excuses such as:

1. Calendar has been changed, we do not know what day is 7th
2. The Sabbath is not for me, it is only for Jew, even though it was instituted at creation long before Israel /Jews existed
3. Observing 4th commandment is legalism, even though obedience to other 9 is not classified that way (pick and choose)
4. Sabbath has been changed to 1st day
5.New Cov includes only 9 commandments, even thou James 2:10-12 states all 10 form 1 perfect law
---Gina7 on 8/24/09


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Genesis 3:17-19, Psalm 11:3, Isaiah 3:12, Luke 6:49.
Seventh Day Adventists do not only depend on Gods grace, his righteousness, and the salvation that was provided by the Lords atoning death on the cross. That is why they use the term imparted righteousness in place of imputed righteousness. They have a type of salvation by works, and Ellen G. White said one will not be forgiven till all sins are eradicated from one's life and one's character is perfected. This is antithetical to grace through faith only. They violate the following: John 15:4, Romans 4:2-8, Galatians 3 (O foolish S.D.A.), 5:6, Colossians 1:9-11, 3:17, James 3:13-18, 2Timothy 1:9, Titus 3:5, Hebrews 9:14, 13:31.
---Glenn on 8/24/09


They believe that they are the remnant church, Glenn

True. But so is anyone who stands up against the antichrist.

Sunday worshipping is the mark of the beast, Glenn

Not now or in the past. When the leaders tells people that they must keep Sunday or be executed then it becomes the Mark so this is false. Samuel

non vegetarians wont be raptured, Mark

Okay you still get to go to heaven. Just not eating correctly is unhealthy. Samuel

Christ had a sinful nature, Glenn

This is a point that we disagree among our selves on. So it is not a doctrine that the church teaches. Samuel
---Samuel on 8/24/09


Jesus began an additional act of atonement* in 1844, Glenn

We simply say JESUS is our High Priest and acts as our Advocate. Now if you teach JESUS is not longer a High Priest then you can say we are wrong. Samuel

that Ellen G. White is Gods messenger with an infallible gift of scriptural interpretation, Glenn

Actually no. There are some who are extreme in their viewpoint. But in general we reconize that she was a human being a sinner and made mistakes. Samuel.

non existence between death and resurrection, the annihilation of the wicked,Glenn

True. Samuel

that there is no separate class of beings called angels,Glenn

Where did you come up with this fabrication? It is false. Samuel
---Samuel on 8/24/09


Gina you wrote 'Clear Bible evidence has been shown you, and all you can do is reject it with concepts, that only sound good to the person who does not want to obey God and does not want to accept Bible truth'

As regards Lee you hit the nail on the head, spot on! I have noticed that is his method of debate on other threads as well. As regards the length of the 6 days of creation he has not been able to give one quote which supports his error. Nonetheless he persists with antiBiblical concepts because his authority is not the word of God.

He believes in eons of evolution which by its time span, and very nature has death before sin. This undermines the gospel but he rejects any Scripture which offends his man-made views.
---Warwick on 8/24/09


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Thus I can only reject your position.
---Lee 8/23/09

You reject the Bible's position. Bible truth, and who is the truth? Jesus Christ, who created the Sabbath, who asks you to Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy Exod 20:8, to which you say no to, and give a multitude of futile excuses, which will come up to haunt you in the judgment. Clear Bible evidence has been shown you, and all you can do is reject it with concepts, that only sound good to the person who does not want to obey God and does not want to accept Bible truth, who wants Friday nights and Saturday as their own time. Saying No to Jesus Christ who wrote the 10 CC? "I never knew you, Depart from me, ye that work iniquity" Mat 7:23 Iniquity = sin = breaking 10 CC
---Gina7 on 8/24/09


Romans 1:17, 3:20-28, 4:4-5, 11:6, 1Corinthians 1:18, Galatians 2:11-16, 5:4, Ephesians 2:8-9.
They believe that they are the remnant church, Sunday worshipping is the mark of the beast, non vegetarians wont be raptured, Christ had a sinful nature, Jesus began an additional act of atonement* in 1844, that Ellen G. White is Gods messenger with an infallible gift of scriptural interpretation, non existence between death and resurrection, the annihilation of the wicked, that there is no separate class of beings called angels, and that sins are placed on Satan. Also, the necessary conditions for salvation are baptism, the perfect following of the ten commandments, belief in the doctrine of the *investigative judgement, and not drinking alcohol.
---Glenn on 8/24/09


Thank you Cluny for the expository on hell, its a big help. Its silly to reduce eternal torment to an argument about whether an english language word was used in Hebrew and Septuagent writings on eternal torment.
English at the time was insignificant. The terror of hell is its earned status as the ultimate distance from God and his grace.
Regardless of the name that is a place you don't want to be.
---larry on 8/24/09


Mima, I believe that Sunday will be the Anti-Christ's worship day. The A.C. will claim to be God. As GOD is worshipped, so the Anti-Christ will be as well. The A.C. won't use GOD's True 7th Day Sabbath. But, he will use the day that many people now believe is "the Lord's day", Sunday. At this time, anyone who enters the church on Sunday will risk being deceived by Satan to take his mark, which leads to the Lake of Fire! I believe the Beast's mark will be distributed in church buildings on Sunday. The Mark may consist of a chip-implant and a small visible or invisible tattoo. The Saints of GOD will then know that the 7th Day is the real Sabbath of GOD. Which is why we must learn of this now. Not wait 'til our heads are under the blade.
---Gordon on 8/24/09


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Some, not all, of the Seventh Day Adventist are followers of the law as the Pharisees. So not all can be judge as they were by Christ.
Jerry gave me Exodus 20:10 which was a sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exo. 31:16-17, Ezekiel 20:12, Nehemiah 9:14). In the early church worship service mentioned in the New Testament, the church met on the first day of the Week (Acts 20:7). Nowhere in the Old Testament are the Gentiles nations commanded to observe the Sabbath or condemned for failing to do so. That is strange if Sabbath observance were meant to be an eternal purpose. In Gal. 4:10,11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expecte them to observe special days including the Sabbath.
---MarkV. on 8/24/09


\\
If you had the slightest inclination to study history, you would learn that many of these churches were Sabbath keepers for well over a thousand years after the cross. The St. Thomas Christians of Goa, India, for example were Sabbath keepers up until the time they were slaughtered by the Roman Catholic inquisition.\\

That's wrong on two levels.

1. The Inquisition didn't make it to India, though I admit the Portugese missionaries sowed confusion.

2. They were still worshipping on Sunday before that.
---Cluny on 8/24/09


Most Christians at least as late as the 5th century still kept the Sabbath.

As an indicator of how things changed over time: when the Leaning Tower of Pisa was being built they were still celebrating baptism by immersion--the floor has an octagonal covering over the batismal tank.

Over time the church had wandered away from God and apostolic simplicity and teaching--whcih is why we had to have the Reformation!
---dconklin on 8/24/09


Lee/C-luny: "explain why the ancient Christian churches in Ethiopia, Armenia, Iraq (the Assyrians), and India that were NEVER part of the Roman Catholic Church have Sunday as the primary day of worship."

If you had the slightest inclination to study history, you would learn that many of these churches were Sabbath keepers for well over a thousand years after the cross. The St. Thomas Christians of Goa, India, for example were Sabbath keepers up until the time they were slaughtered by the Roman Catholic inquisition.
---jerry6593 on 8/24/09


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/Any church that adopts the Catholic Sunday as their day of worship, gives homage to Pope of Rome whether or not they were under direct control or not..

The church at Rome really had no influence until the 5th century.

The seat of power shifted to Constantinople early in the 4th century and the patriarch there was the guiding influence.

So what you read from the SDA literature is really a distortion of history not supported by any known recognized church historian.

Thus I can only reject your position.
---Lee on 8/23/09


//Lee, As I understand it,Constantine became "Christian" on his death-bed!

Not exactly true as Constantine really believed as did much of the church during those times, that baptism washes away sins. So he was baptized on his deathbed.

In reality it is doubtful that old Constantine was ever a Christian but more an opportunitist that used whatever means were at hand to further his own ambitions.

I understand that he may have murdered some of his own kin who he felt were a threat to him.
---Lee on 8/23/09


Lee, As I understand it,Constantine became "Christian" on his death-bed!
Prior to, he thought of Christianity as a kind of magic that helped him win battles.
Under his rule Jews were very restricted as to what they could do, like not hold any office, or serve in the military,marry Romans etc..
None of the bishops who attended the 325CE assembly were Jewish!
Decreeing Sunday over Saturday was to thwart Judaism.
---1st_cliff on 8/23/09


I think we can add the Coptic church in Egypt as well as the Nestorian churches to that list as well?
---Lee 8/22/09
Any church that adopts the Catholic Sunday as their day of worship, gives homage to Pope of Rome whether or not they were under direct control or not.. the influence of Rome was widespread. Even now those who worship on Sunday thinking they are Protestant and not under the control of Rome, really are giving homage to Rome by adopting the mark of catholic authority.

Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the (Roman catholic) Church, has no good reasons for its Sunday theory, and ought logically to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. John Gilmary Shea, American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.
---Gina7 on 8/23/09


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1st_cliff - I am not sure,but did not Constantine make his pronouncement concerning Sunday as the non-workday prior to becoming a Christian?

Among the many confusing things coming out of Adventism is who really changed the Sabbath to Sunday. Was it old Constantine or one of the Roman Popes?

In any case, many SDA scholars recognize the fact the Gentile church no longer observed the Jewish Sabbath by the end of the 1st century.

Westminister confessions states since the church observed Sundays early in its history, we can surmise the Apostles & their immediate successor did not teach Sabbath keeping to Gentile converts.

Thus Sunday gathering is a tradition established by the leaders of the early church.2 Th. 2:15
---Lee on 8/23/09


While Christians were scattered after 70CE it was illegal to be a Christian under early Rome,they rounded them up for sport-killing in the arena!
In 325CE Constantine united Christians under Roman rule and decreed Sunday (as he was a priest of Sol) to be the holy day.
As an anti-Semitic he wanted to distance the flock from the Jewish traditional sabbath!
---1st_cliff on 8/23/09


What is also apparent is Adventism is strictly an ethical system. they can be commended for their clean healthful living.

But such also may characterizes the Mormon as well as other dedicated to better health.

Like the young man who came to Christ and said all these commandments I have observed since birth chose not to follow Jesus, I see much the same with Adventists.

Matthew 19:16f And behold, a man came up to him, saying, Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?...The young man said to him, All these (commandments) I have kept. What do I still lack? Jesus said to him, If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven, and come, follow me.
---Lee on 8/23/09


Lee "Bear in mind the antagonist view Adventism has toward Roman Catholicism."

Yes, SDA does have a very antagonist view towards Roman Catholicism. Apparently they believe that anyone who worship on Sunday must be a Catholic or a follower of the Pope. It is truly sad that Adventists are simply following the false prophet Ellen. G. White and her condemnation towards those under the New Covenant.

Many SDA will also tell you that the Early Church Fathers were Roman Catholic, despite the fact that many of them were NEVER part of the Roman Church.

SDA history is nothing more than prejudice mixed with some historical facts.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 8/22/09


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mima - *Question to all Sabbath keepers, Do you believe that worshiping on Sunday is mark of the beast?

Gina is merely trying to evade the question or put a better face on this issue.

I have a SDA publication entitled "Mark of the Beast", and yes they do identify Christians that gather on the Lord's day as qualifying for the mark. Part one is 'the Truth about the Mark' by V. H. Ferrell and part two is 'the Crisis of the Mark' by none other than E.G. White the founder of the SDA.

You may enjoy reading that small booklet for yourself.

Bear in mind the antagonist view Adventism has toward Roman Catholicism.
---Lee on 8/22/09


I would really love to hear Gina reply to Cluny when she stated "Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church" and he asked her to explain why the ancient Christian churches in Ethiopia, Armenia, Iraq (the Assyrians), and India that were NEVER part of the Roman Catholic Church have Sunday as the primary day of worship.

Maybe she truly believes that all of the early church was Roman Catholic, that Jesus indeed give the keys to Peter handed down to Rome.

I think we can add the Coptic church in Egypt as well as the Nestorian churches to that list as well?
---Lee on 8/22/09


gina - Yes we can see Adventists do not recognize the New Covenant of the church in that they still believe Christians should follow all the 600+ laws found in the obsolete Old Covenant.

They truly have to believe the Apostles erred at the Jerusalem council in not demanding Gentile converts observe all laws that were strictly Jewish in nature. Acts 15:20.

While sin can be viewed as a transgression of the law, are laws not found within the New Covenant of the church applicable to Christians or are laws found in the obsolete Old Covenant also applicable? Hebr. 8:13

We do not lie in saying we love and follow the Lord. Of course, the father of all lies will have his children accuse Christians of not following Jesus. John 8:44
---Lee on 8/22/09


Question to all Sabbath keepers, Do you believe that worshiping on Sunday is mark of the beast?
---mima 8/22/09
Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact. Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act...And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things. H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons.

"If any man worship(worship is religious) the Beast (RCC) and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead (beliefs) or in his hand (outward observance).." Rev 14:9
---Gina7 on 8/22/09


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\\"Hell" was considered exactly the equivalent for "lake of fire" or "gehenna" or its Hebrew spelling before King James came along.\\

It might be worth mentioning that the English word "hell" is probably related to the Norse word "Hela" or "Hella," who was the queen of the underworld in Nordic paganism, and the German word "hlle" (or "hoelle) which is the word both for "grave" and "hell" as in place of eternal punishment.
---Cluny on 8/22/09


Jesus upheld the 10 commandments "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, which? Jesus said "Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother..." Matthew 19:17-19

So do the 7th Day Adventists. All 10, including the Sabbath. If you uphold only 9, you are not upholding the commandments. All 10 form 1 perfect law (James 2:10-12) therefore if you break the Sabbath, you have broken them all. "so speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of libery"
---Gina7 on 8/22/09


they squawk that they are not the ones that condemn, but the Bible does so. But it does not.
---Lee on 8/21/09
"I had not known sin, but by the law.. "Thou shalt not covet"" Rom 7:7

"Sin is the transgression of the law (10 commandments)" 1 John 3:4

"The wages of sin (breaking 10 commandments) is death.." Rom 6:23

"Whoseover is born of God does not commit sin (break 10 commandments) 1 John 3:9

"For if we sin (break 10 commandments) wilfully after we have received knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation.." Heb 10:26,27
---Gina7 on 8/22/09


"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, yet offend in 1 point, he is guilty of all. For he that said "Do not commit adultery" said also, "Do not Kill". Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgresser of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty"Jam 2:10-12

"Judgment must begin at the house of God.." 1Peter 4:17

"For if we sin (break 10 CC 1John 3:4) willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a fearful looking for of judgment...it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" Hebrews 10:26,27,31
---Gina7 on 8/22/09


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Samuel - We are sinners saved by grace not by works. Eph. 2:8-10.

When one becomes a Christian that person is indwelt by the Holy Spirit and thereafter begins a process we call sanctification.

Apparently you reject this doctrine, believing that we must usurp the role of the Holy Spirit in transforming us into the image of our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ.

The righteousness we have for our eternal salvation is in Christ, not in ourselves.

1Co 1:30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption,..

Romans 1:17 The righteous shall live by faith (not by the law).
---Lee on 8/22/09


\\
The word hell is not even mentioned in the origianl writings for the OT & NT, the Hebrew and Greek, It was not brought in until King James decided to use the word "Hell."\\

First off, King Jamed did not "decide to use the word 'Hell.'"

It was used in all previous English translations of the Bible. You didn't actually think the KJV is the first English translation, did you?

"Hell" was considered exactly the equivalent for "lake of fire" or "gehenna" or its Hebrew spelling before King James came along.
---Cluny on 8/22/09


Question to all Sabbath keepers, Do you believe that worshiping on Sunday is the mark of the beast?
---mima on 8/22/09


Kella: NONE! Why do you ask? The SDA doctrines are the closest of all denominations to the teachings of the Bible. Do you, like Lee, believe in the doctrine of "salvation by SDA bashing?"

The doctrines that I find the most offensive are: (1) That Christians are freed from the obligation to keep from sinning (i.e., obey the Ten Commandments), and (2) The belief in pagan spiritualism - that people are actually spooks injected into bodies, and are freed at death to continue living forever, regardless of their relationship with God. Neither of these doctrines are supported from Scripture, but I'll bet you believe in them.
---jerry6593 on 8/22/09


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that Michael is Jesus.

in the old testmament when God came in the form of an angel it always says "angel of the Lord"

Why give a name to his angelic form if he's Jesus?


On the other hand, the Sabbath issue is a pretety good point they have, apart from it being the mark of the beast or that keeping the sabbath is required for salvation

(we're not in the great tribulation dispensation yet)

The verichip RFID with all your ID info, a contained credit card and GPS is much more likely to be the mark of the beast, rather than their symbolic explanation about the laws on the right hand or forehead.
---Jake on 8/22/09


The word hell is not even mentioned in the origianl writings for the OT & NT, the Hebrew and Greek, It was not brought in until King James decided to use the word "Hell." Regardless, I do not believe in the traditional teachings of Hell - But, . Rev 14:9-11 9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice,"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb."
---Gracie on 8/21/09


Wow Gordon and thanks. I thought the Adventists did believe in hell because they absolutely go bananas if anyone goes to church on Sunday, and act as if decisions concering the weekly calendar alone is enough to earn you a first row seat next to Belzebub.
I had been reading about the tragic decisions by Charles Taze Russell and the Satanic hold over the Watchtower/Jehovah's Witness cult. I read Michael Jackson's mother planned to raise his kids as strict JW's and I was praying for the family to have a spiritual breakthrough, but I need to study the Adventists in case I have the chance to bring someone to see the truth in Christ Jesus. There is always more to pray about.
Thanks again.
---larry on 8/21/09


//That the Adventists do not believe in Eternal Damnation i.e. Hell and the Lake of Fire lasting forever.

There are others including some prominent theologians (Martin Luther for one)that believe as do the Adventists, that eventually the damned will cease to exist. After all what purpose would God have in making some of His creation suffer in the fires everlasting?

In any case, it is not an essential doctrinal belief. It is a pity that there are those that demand we have all the correct beliefs otherwise get accused of being heretics.
---Lee on 8/21/09


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Well Lee let me see if I get this right. A person says they are a Christian but lives in sin hating others stealing, lying committing adultery worshipping other gods etc.

But because they said certain words they still go to heaven. At least that seems to be what you are saying.

But John wrote that those who say they love GOD yet do not keep His commandments are liars.

So which do we believe you or the Apostle John?

By the way being saved by Grace as Wesley and John MacArthur point out means saved from living in sin. Just like what I read in the Bible.
---Samuel on 8/21/09


That the Adventists do not believe in Eternal Damnation i.e. Hell and the Lake of Fire lasting forever. It's all right there in the Scriptures, which they definitely claim to believe. I know that Adventists are Christians, that is, those of them who have truly been Born Again. But, some of their beliefs and teachings are off-base. Another wrong belief is that "there are no more modern Prophets since Ellen G. White". Which there ARE more modern Prophets in today's Church.
---Gordon on 8/21/09


dconklin //There are no works that we can do that will earn our salvation.* The IJ is a judgment on our works, thoughts, etc..

And since the verdict may be that those in Christ may be condemned, say for not observing all the 10 commandments, effectively what you have is an eternal salvation based on works, not grace (eph. 2:8-10)

What the SDA teaches 'a righteousness by faith' alone, they contradict themselves when they tell us we need to have certain works to merit eternal life. Of course, they squawk that they are not the ones that condemn, but the Bible does so. But it does not.
---Lee on 8/21/09


For me it is the investigative judgement
Satan as the scapegoat
Jesus as the archangel Michael
Ellen white as the spirit of prophecy
---Kella8334 on 8/21/09


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The Saturday sabbath is the Jewish sabbath.
The gentile sabbath is Sunday under the roman-calender. The furthest from the Bible teaching Is the Man-made trinity teachings.
Which sarted with the first pope constantine devised the first trin-relig-org(catholocism),the light that came to him to do such is 2nd. Cori 11 v's 14-15 when he embraced a type of chritianity. Is Not God inspired because there is No one found in scriptures that baptized in the titles Father-Son & Holy spirit. All were baptized in The Name of The Lord & The name of The Lord Is Jesus Christ which Is according to Acts 2 v's 37-41 which Fulfills Matt. 28 v's 19-20.
---Lawrence on 8/21/09


Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
---TheSeg on 8/20/09


Cleansing of the sanctuary is biblical:

Leviticus 16:29
Leviticus 16:30 For on that day shall [the priest] make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, [that] ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.

In the OT the priest did the ritual cleansing with animal blood..

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Hebrews 9:23
In the NT it is done in the heavenly sanctuary by Jesus blood.
---francis on 8/20/09


>I find their Investigative Judgment doctrine furthest from the Bible. It essential a judgment on believers based upon works

There are no works that we can do that will earn our salvation.* The IJ is a judgment on our works, thoughts, etc.. The IJ is based on the Day of Atonement in the sanctuary service that God instituted.

* This is why the SDA church teaches "righteousness by faith."
---dconklin on 8/20/09


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A question answer to a question?
Luke 12:41-42: "Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?"
---Nana on 8/21/09


Cliff ... "Cluny, Answering a question with a question is not an answer!"

Quite so, so presumably that is qhy you earlier wrote:

Cluny, *How can anything in heaven get dirty?*
Why then, is God creating a "new heaven"(and new earth)if the present one is just fine??
---1st_cliff on 8/20/09
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/21/09


Cluny, Answering a question with a question is not an answer!
---1st_cliff on 8/20/09


\\ Cluny, *How can anything in heaven get dirty?*
Why then, is God creating a "new heaven"(and new earth)if the present one is just fine??
---\\

So you're saying the present heaven where God dwells gets dirty or somehow isn't just fine?
---Cluny on 8/20/09


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Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
---TheSeg on 8/20/09


Cluny, *How can anything in heaven get dirty?*
Why then, is God creating a "new heaven"(and new earth)if the present one is just fine??
---1st_cliff on 8/20/09


I find their Investigative Judgment doctrine furthest from the Bible. It essential a judgment on believers based upon works that makes null of any NT verse concerning our eternal salvation.

They often squawk that Jesus says if you love me you will obey my commandments (John 14:15), and then they tell us that you are a liar because you do not obey all of the 10 commandments, particularly the Old Jewish Sabbath, nowhere commanded of His Church.

Thus they stand in judgement on your convictions.
---Lee on 8/20/09


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