1. Do not confuse people with your rhetoric.
2. There are far too many dischordant voices out there.
3. If you truly know Scriptures, as you say, then preach truth of Jesus.
4. He is the reason for the OT, the reason for the NT,
---Mark_Eaton on 10/10/09
1. If they are confused by scripture witnessing scripture....then it is me doing the confusing? O.K. see your logic. Not.
2. "dischordant"? Confusion is discordant.
3. If truth of the prophets and direction of O.Covenants don't appeal....then none will understand the New.
4. Truth is Simple....but, scary .....perhaps? If you don't understand something. Ask.
---Trav on 10/12/09|
Of late, "liberal" has become a catch-all perjorative to simply mean, "I don't like this," regardless of the context.
And what is conservative to one person (especially in theology) is liberal to another.
To be honest, we are all liberal in some things and conservative in others.
---Cluny on 10/10/09|
I am not trying to label you with a belief system, I am trying to exort you as a brother in Christ. If you continue, I will rebuke you for being arrogant.
Do not confuse people with your rhetoric. There are far too many dischordant voices out there now. If you truly know the Scriptures, as you say, then preach the truth of Jesus. Nothing else matters but Him. He is the reason for the OT, the reason for the NT, He is the story that fills every page. Every word, every syllable, even every letter points to Him.
Everything else is IRRELEVANT.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/10/09|
I do not know you. You seem knowledgeable about Scripture. However, to "play" with them only causes confusion. ---Mark_Eaton on 10/7/09
I claim no label for myself. Christian is hard enough for me. LDS has been decieved from the beginning. But, then we've all been mislead to some degree.
Notice...you are trying to tag me with a belief system. You can't. I utilize scripture witnessing scriptures. There are so many that conclusion is unavoidable. If we have not been molded by mens doctrinal teachings. I was so far away from the Churches at time it made it little easier unlearn fallacy's.
---Trav on 10/8/09|
Liberal Theology: denies the absolute truthfulness of the Bible, or who do not think the words of the Bible to be God's very words....Ultimately we will attain much more depth of understanding of scripture when we are able to study it in the company of a great number of scholars who all begin with the conviction that the Bible is completely true and absolutely authoritative. Also, what are doctrines? A doctrine is what the WHOLE BIBLE teaches us today about some particular topic.
---catherine on 10/7/09|
I do not know you. You seem knowledgeable about Scripture. However, to "play" with them only causes confusion.
Are you of the LDS faith?
There are people on this blog who are of the LDS faith and they truly believe the Father was a man of flesh who was married and had a son. Unless you believe as they do, please do not infer things like this. You must appreciate that not everyone knows all Scripture and I know the OT the least and what you are saying is true, but in a different way than the LDS believe.
Continue to be diligent about your faith and study to show yourself approved.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/7/09|
Mark and Mima, thank you for your liberal unbelief list. I cannot understand why people bother to remain in a church which disbelieves almost all of Scripture. What is the point?
Where is the forgiveness, the power, the peace, the healing, the love and the gift of eternal life? It offers nothing worth having.
---Warwick on 10/7/09|
You realize all these passages are allusion written to children of Israel as a nation? Also, you cannot really be married to the Father, who is not body but Spirit? ---Mark_Eaton on 10/5/09
Ha, your a big man Mark to answer back. Sorry about the meat, cook it long enough it's tender eatable. Want a cup of water to wash it down with?
I fear for my approval...pray for me...I'll pray for yours.
Look at what everyone 99.....does not see.
GOD was married....not just an allusion...He had a SON. Who died. Now the widow can be remarried.
If you'll note Heb 8:8...remarry same nations/people. If like 8:10 you have these laws you....
Do with it what your moved to do. I'll shut the grill off.
---Trav on 10/6/09|
Its probably a desciption from a political ideology not holiness so ignore the nonsense. Politics is pagan and opposite to holy resolutions reflected in our Savior.
Other than clothing and anger I can't think if any other suggestion where biblical conservatism is tied to virtue.
Some would consider wisdom conservative but this cheapens the Solomon's holy words to an english-speaking blue and red state point-of-view.
Let your pastor know you from now on you will be conservative with your giving, tithing, time, psalms, prayers and supplications and see what he says.
The Bereans were praised for their liberality....which is different than political liberality.
---larry on 10/5/09|
Please include in your list of liberal theological ideas:
Jesus was not divine, just a man.
There was a creator, but He/She/They are not involved in your life
The creation story may be incorrect.
The flood story may be incorrect.
There is no real Hell, just a story to frighten us
The guidance on families, women, men, children was not written for today
The gifts of the spirit are not for today
We all get to the same God even if we use different methods
There is only one God and we all are worshiping Him by different names
There are many ways to God
The Bible can be wrong
---Mark_Eaton on 10/5/09|
Liberal Christian theology believes,
1. That the virgin birth is mythology.
2. That the highest attainment of man his love of his fellow man not salvation.
3. That the Bible is not inspired nor infallible.
4. That Jesus Christ did not rise from the grave in a bodily form.
They also hold a very rosy picture of the future for mankind instead of the picture that the Bible draws.
Many intellectuals pull the blanket of liberal Christian theology over their eyes and when they open their eyes they will be in hell. So sad.
---mima on 10/5/09|
StrongAxe: Aren't the "Bible recorded" opinions of the "Apostle" Paul also from God since all scripture is given by inspiration of God? Otherwise, wouldn't said opinions have been absent from Scripture or perhaps the opinionators would've been rebuked/corrected in Scripture, e.g., Job, by God?
Since God authored the Bible, why would He permit the opinions of His prophets & apostles to be included in it unless they coincided with His will & purpose? :)
---Leon on 9/22/09|
I agree 100% about always focusing on God's word to see what it actually tries to say, rather than twisting it to say what we want.
I also agree 100% teaching must be from God's word rather than changing fads. However, this has a flip side - we can't jump to our own conclusions about things about things it DOESN'T say, and speak authoritatively about them. That is teaching traditions of men (bad, unless it's clear that's what it is) and put words into God's mouth (something we should NEVER do).
Look at Paul's teaching on divorce - some things he got from the Lord, others he explicitly said were his own opinions, NOT from the Lord. He made this distinction clear. Unfortunately, many teachers are not so precise.
---StrongAxe on 8/25/09|
StrongAxe I focus upon God's word. I always endeavour to hear what He is telling us, rather than trying to make it say what I want it to say. I find His truth inconvenient at times but that means He is right, not me.
I oppose liberal 'theology' because it takes the living Truth out of Scripture and replaces it with man's philosophies, which constantly change.
We surely need to be taught how to live in the freedom Christ gives but I am equally sure you agree this teaching must be from God's Truth not mans changing fads.
---Warwick on 8/24/09|
The reason you find typical liberal church theology inadequate is because you are focusing on theology, and theology is not their strong suit, while it is yours. (I personally find myself in the same position, by the way). The Pharisees also criticized Jesus because he wasn't teaching his followers all that the law demanded (washing hands properly, etc.)
However, the vast majority of Christians (and people of other beliefs as well) are NOT theologians. What is much more useful to them are practical guides on how to live Christian lives, not many of the esoteric theological topics such as we all too often discuss here.
---StrongAxe on 8/24/09|
Liberal or conservative theology just means theology with man's signature. Some say those who believe in gay pastors are liberal, others are outraged by women pastors as signs of a liberal feminist agenda. Charistmatics consider themselves conservatives but fundamentalist might recoil at the charismatic abuse of tongues, yelping, laughing, wild genuflects and female pastors as liberal theology on steroids.
Meanwhile conservative fundamentalist Christians in this country tend to be modern day Pharisees, believing they have it all right and highly derisive and judgmental of those who disagree.
Blacks evangelicals survey more conservative than whites on abortion AND gays but vote democratic. The labels are useless.
---larry on 8/24/09|
StrongAxe on the contrary, Jesus was very concerned about truth, very clear there was a narrow path to follow, as defined carefully by Scripture-see Matthew 7:13,14.
You are right in saying He set standards for behaviour, post salvation. As James said the evidence of salvation is good works. Good living, and carrying our Jesus commands-go into all the world and make disciples etc.
---Warwick on 8/24/09|
As I see it 'liberal' Christians spiritualize Christianity out of all recognition, stripping it of its passion, and its power. Having met many I have been appalled by their lukewarm faith. What is there to get excited about in 'liberal' theology?
Are all our sins really forgiven? Are we really saved from a real hell, headed to a real heaven, or is it some forlorn spiritual message divorced from reality?
If it's not real then I am really still lost in my sins, and going nowhere. I have no time for liberal theology and Scripture shows me Jesus would reject it out of hand. See Revelation 3:16 'So because you are lukewarm-neither hot nor cold-I am about to spit you out of my mouth.'
---Warwick on 8/24/09|
Of course, Jesus's primary purpose was to pay the price for sin. However, in his sermons (such as the Sermon on the Mount), he emphasized practical aspects of living (such as turning the other cheek) rather than nitpicking points of theology. He only did that in response to others who did it to him first (for example, the Pharisees trying to lay traps for him).
You are right, in that both extremes (as in most other areas as well) miss the mark.
---StrongAxe on 8/23/09|
StrongAxe in a way the true Church should hold to both your aspects. We need to be careful about what we believe and we should be active in the post-salvation good works which God commands us to do.
We should care for our brothers and sisters who need our prayers and physical help. But, and it is a big but, we have to remember that Jesus primary reason for coming was to pay the price of sin, to give us His free, undeserved gift of salvation and eternal life.
Let us not get lost in man's view of good works and miss the reality of what Jesus acihieved by His death and resurrection. This is real. Let us not spiritualize it away from historical reality.
---Warwick on 8/23/09|
Look at churches today:
Conservatives are very fussy about theology, and about personal holiness. They condemn people whose own theology and holiness don't live up to their standards. Liberals are less interested in these, and are more interested in social programs and preaching "good behavior".
2000 years ago, Pharisees chewed people out over the tiniest of details and infractions. Jesus on the other hand didn't preach about every itty bitty law of Leviticus, but rather taught people how to live full "good" spiritual lives - and the Pharisees condemned him for it.
Draw your own conclusions.
---StrongAxe on 8/22/09|
First, it means they don't believe they have the pure preserved words of God.
Also, it means they can interpret scripture however they want, rather than letting the bible interpret itself or comapraing scripture with scripture
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Cor 2:13 - Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
John 6:63 - It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. God's words are spirit. you compare God's words with God's words: scripture with scripture.
---Jake on 8/22/09|
Well put Donna. I think you understand the situaton well.
I cannot comprehend the 'liberal' philosophy at all. I suppose it is like sitting down to a 'liberal' meal there is no reality, and hunger follows!
---Warwick on 8/22/09|
Liberal churches are those that feel "free" (at liberty) to "spiritualize" the Bible. . They accept as truth only what seems possible to them according to modern criteria. If not believable in reality (i.e.account of Jonah or the great flood), they assume that the lesson is a spiritual one. They develop a philosphy and use the Bible in any way that conveniently supports what they believe.
They may not even believe that Jesus was any more than a wise teacher. Nevertheless, they tend to emphasize the teachings of Jesus, pay scant attention to the the remainder of the NT, and see the "God of the OT" as primitive and harsh.
---Donna66 on 8/21/09|
Liberal Christian Theology is another way of saying NOT lined up with the Bible. Stay away from this theology, it is VERY DANGEROUS and of the Devil (NOT of God). If you listen, you could end up in Hell because of it.
---Leslie on 8/21/09|
Liberal Christian Theology (Not resticted, free & unconfined). These Are Man-made ideas
given to man from the god of this world(2nd Cori. 11 v's 14-15, even Man-made relig-org's churches to deny & take away from that Is Biblical True & Right.
---Lawrence on 8/21/09|
From what I understand, liberal Christians deny the authority and inerrancy of Scripture, even to the point of dismissing the Bible's historicity. Therefore, the Bible becomes to them allegorical and merely a collection of books that teach us how to live our lives. Some liberals, I believe, also deny the reality of miracles, including the literal resurrection of Christ.
---Bobby3 on 8/21/09|